[HN Gopher] Learnings of a CEO: Matt Schulman, Pave, on Hiring
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       Learnings of a CEO: Matt Schulman, Pave, on Hiring
        
       Author : gmays
       Score  : 34 points
       Date   : 2022-10-25 15:57 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.ycombinator.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.ycombinator.com)
        
       | mparis wrote:
       | Matt is a force of will and one of the hardest working people I
       | have ever met. Great work thus far and good luck on the journey
       | ahead!
        
       | pavethrowaway wrote:
        
       | thorncorona wrote:
       | s/Learnings/Lessons/g
        
         | dsr_ wrote:
         | It's an old form, implying more that the person is going to
         | tell you about what they learned than that they will teach you
         | things.
        
       | manv1 wrote:
       | Is "learnings" a real word now
        
         | monknomo wrote:
         | yeah, it's business jargon. I can only imagine someone
         | somewhere forgot the word "lesson" and was high enough status
         | that the malapropism stuck
        
       | Justsignedup wrote:
       | unrelated to the article, looking at pave it seems ripe to
       | connect a fake company to and mine their data to publicly share
       | compensation bands that are accessible.
       | 
       | Their data can really help a lot of individuals negotiate
       | salaries.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | hmtb02 wrote:
       | Matt is one of the best, most ethically-driven founders I've ever
       | worked with - there are a thousand easier, cheaper decisions Pave
       | could make in how it operates (especially given the space) that
       | he chooses not to do, in service of customers & data integrity.
       | Pave is special!
        
         | throwawayment wrote:
         | how ethical is it to spam people's inboxes with unsolicited
         | interview requests, especially when one has never shared their
         | contact info with his company, nor shown the slightest interest
         | in working for it?
        
         | dsr_ wrote:
         | When a zero-karma 1-hour old account says things like this, one
         | should beware.
        
       | esel2k wrote:
       | I don't like the try-and-hire approach, we have trial periods in
       | europe for this. And even these don't really give you as employee
       | the free choice as finding a job takes time. If I commit to a job
       | then I expect them employer to his part: Pension fund, insurance,
       | onboard etc and not have unfair some leverage over me.
        
         | pizzaknife wrote:
         | this 100%
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | > _There are two types of executives you can hire - either a high
       | slope (an up-and-comer) or a high Y intercept (a veteran in the
       | industry). The veteran has been around for a while and knows what
       | they're doing. The up-and-comer is riskier, but this person is
       | going to have more of an appetite to learn, more of a bias to
       | take action, and a do-whatever-it-takes mentality. There is a
       | time and place for both types of hires, but as a 35-person
       | startup, almost always go for the slope, not the high Y
       | intercept._
       | 
       | There are two types of HR manager you can hire -- either one that
       | would advise not putting that in writing and publicizing it, or
       | one that would advise not betting the company on theories pulled
       | out of who-knows-where.
        
         | hellolemon wrote:
         | Look at his LinkedIn profile and you will quickly see how
         | unqualified he is for the CEO role. He is the slope as he puts
         | it. And no high Y would work for him.
        
         | JamesianP wrote:
         | It's easy to make this policy objective. Give them a test of
         | ethical principles. Hire the person who fails it...
        
         | LewisJEllis wrote:
         | The idea of slope vs y-intercept as applied to people/hiring is
         | not some random unknown made-up theory; it's quite commonly
         | discussed/repeated among founders, VCs, etc. I think it may've
         | originated with John Ousterhout.
         | 
         | https://twitter.com/search?q=slope%20y-intercept
        
         | tmpz22 wrote:
         | There are two types of blog poster - either they categorize
         | people into two simple groups or they talk out of there mouth
         | versus a different orifice.
        
         | georgeburdell wrote:
         | It's not pulled out of nowhere; his mental framework comes out
         | of the management consulting playbook where you divide up the
         | subject into groups A and B (usually only two groups) and try
         | to glean superficial insights about one or the other for your
         | customers.
         | 
         | Perhaps unsurprisingly, according to LinkedIn, Matt Schulman
         | has a degree from Wharton. He is the archetypal tech bro
         | wearing the trappings of nerddom. 15 years ago he'd have been
         | spewing something analogous from a stone-clad building on Wall
         | St
        
           | xapata wrote:
           | I'd have thought George P. Burdell would have more Hacker
           | News karma. We should do something about that.
        
         | notac wrote:
         | Tell me you're ageist without telling me you're ageist.
        
       | purpleblue wrote:
       | I talked to Pave last year and bowed out after hearing how they
       | do business. Their business model and their techniques could have
       | changed since I last talked to them.
       | 
       | At the time, customer companies give all their compensation data
       | to Pave, including employee names, and then they use that to
       | create compensation data across the list of their customers and
       | share it. They were targeting startups, but I don't know if they
       | have expanded since.
       | 
       | If I remember correctly, because they have your name, they also
       | scrape LinkedIn data about you and try to get as much information
       | about you as possible like job titles, etc. I wasn't comfortable
       | with this so I bowed out. I'm not sure how much control employees
       | have to prevent this sharing to Pave, because I would not want my
       | entire salary history to be shared with prospective employers so
       | that they could definitively say "Well, this person got paid X in
       | their previous position, we shouldn't pay more than 5% above
       | that."
       | 
       | They may have changed their data policy, like I mentioned I
       | haven't talked to them since last year.
        
         | LewisJEllis wrote:
         | Hi, I work for Pave (but I don't speak for Pave, etc etc).
         | 
         | > If I remember correctly, because they have your name, they
         | also scrape LinkedIn data about you and try to get as much
         | information about you as possible like job titles, etc.
         | 
         | I am not aware of Pave doing anything like this.
         | 
         | > I would not want my entire salary history to be shared with
         | prospective employers so that they could definitively say
         | "Well, this person got paid X in their previous position, we
         | shouldn't pay more than 5% above that."
         | 
         | Pave does not share specific identifiable data like "John Doe
         | got paid $X at EmployerCo".
         | 
         | Pave only shares aggregations like "people in San Francisco,
         | with the title Senior Software Engineer, at companies between
         | 100 and 500 employees, typically get paid $X at the 50th
         | percentile, $Y at the 75th, and $Z at the 90th".
         | 
         | From Pave's website,
         | https://www.pave.com/products/compensation-benchmarking-data:
         | 
         | > Benchmarking can never be traced back to an individual or
         | employee.
         | 
         | I am not aware of any of these things having changed at any
         | point.
        
       | jondeval wrote:
       | Sometimes I daydream about starting a product company and my
       | thinking goes like this:
       | 
       | Do you have a decent idea that solves a real problem? - yes,
       | check.
       | 
       | Do you have respect for the iterations and learning required to
       | find product market fit? - yes, check.
       | 
       | Do you have years of relevant engineering and product experience
       | and can you build and execute on stuff? - yes, check.
       | 
       | But then my thoughts turn to what seems to actually matter (re-
       | enforced by articles like this):
       | 
       | Are you an extravert who wants to spend all their time talking to
       | investors and raising money? - no, fail.
       | 
       | Are you an extravert who wants to spend the other half of all
       | their time interviewing and hiring new employees? - no, fail.
       | 
       | Have you ever actually met an extravert who you would trust
       | enough to delegate these two critical responsibilities above? -
       | no, fail.
        
         | vecter wrote:
         | The first three things you mentioned are still requirements for
         | a successful startup. They're not sufficient, as you've pointed
         | out, but if you have those three then you're off to a decent
         | start.
         | 
         | Building a successful company is about far more than just
         | building a product. If you're one of the lucky few that find
         | product-market fit, you still need to scale the company and
         | build up an organization that execute on the opportunity that
         | exists. That is mostly a people and leadership problem, and not
         | a technical one.
        
         | Kranar wrote:
         | That sounds about right, as someone who started and runs their
         | own company. Having a decent idea for a product, being able to
         | learn and having experience are good skills to have but they
         | are not important towards the building of a company and leading
         | a team. You could potentially build a product in a niche area,
         | but you're not going to build anything beyond a very small
         | business with those skills alone.
         | 
         | Running or building a company is about allocating capital,
         | hiring good people and being able to manage them effectively,
         | and being comfortable with delegating tasks to competent
         | experts instead of trying to micromanage everything. That's how
         | you get scale.
         | 
         | If you don't have those skills, nothing wrong with that, most
         | people don't. Instead you find an existing company that has
         | that, and you join them and offer them the skills that you do
         | have.
         | 
         | One thing you quickly realize when you start a company is just
         | how chaotic it is in ways you never expected from legal
         | aspects, financial aspects, coordinating things internally
         | within your company and externally with third party vendors and
         | your customers, and you begin to feel the pressure of having
         | competition that is constantly trying to shut you down,
         | especially as you get bigger and bigger. It's very fierce and
         | you are reminded that every single dollar you make is a dollar
         | that someone else is fighting for.
         | 
         | If what you want to do is focus mostly on a product and employ
         | your particular area of expertise then do not start a company,
         | join one. Finally this extravert vs introvert stuff is
         | nonsense, don't use it as an excuse or let it deter you. Plenty
         | of introverts are incredible leaders that have managed to run
         | some of the most wildly successful companies ever known. Look
         | at some interviews with tech CEOs before they became
         | successful; they are some of the most socially awkward and
         | uncomfortable looking people you can imagine who seem to really
         | hate giving talks, heck check out the infamous Zuckerberg 60
         | Minutes interview or other interviews from around 2004. Early
         | Bill Gates interviews are only slightly less awkward as are
         | interviews with Google's Larry Page.
        
         | harryvederci wrote:
         | I don't know the details of your skillset, but maybe you can
         | try launching a product that doesn't need investors and
         | employees. So make your daydream about a product, not a product
         | company.
         | 
         | Not all companies have to be big, and maybe you don't even need
         | to create a company to create something helpful / beautiful /
         | profitable / whatever floats your boat.
        
         | zasdffaa wrote:
         | WRT hiring, I've been looking for a job and had a number of
         | interviews, perhaps 15-20. Odd thing is they've almost all
         | asked for touchy-feely things such as my values, what's my
         | favourite language and the like but no actual hard questions
         | that tested my knowledge or capabilities.
         | 
         | The only org that did that said I beat everyone else and
         | they're interested in having me (currently in progress in
         | fact). Make of it what you will; I don't know what to think.
         | They all want innovative problem solvers with deep knowledge
         | but don't ask the interview questions that would show that up.
         | It makes no sense.
        
           | jondeval wrote:
           | Good luck to you. Going through a job hunt is tricky. It
           | sounds like you have an interested company and I hope it
           | works out. Keep pushing.
           | 
           | > They all want innovative problem solvers with deep
           | knowledge but don't ask the interview questions that would
           | show that up.
           | 
           | The hiring process is a quintessentially human process so
           | you're going to experience many different types of people.
           | 
           | Keep focused on enthusiastic service. Focus on showing how
           | you can help the company out with their mission. Research the
           | company ahead of time and build a case that you are ready to
           | communicate to the hiring team. Answer their questions
           | honestly and directly but if they don't ask great questions,
           | no big deal, just proactively fill that gap with good reasons
           | why they should bring you on.
        
             | zasdffaa wrote:
             | Companies want mainly decent tech skills, or so they claim,
             | but don't ask the tech questions to pick out those
             | candidates (again, IME). How does that add up?
             | 
             | > Research the company ahead of time and build a case that
             | you are ready to communicate to the hiring team
             | 
             | Yeah, to do that you need to know the companies'
             | requirements. As an outsider you can't know them.
             | 
             | > proactively fill that gap with good reasons why they
             | should bring you on.
             | 
             | I've even offered to work free for companies to start with.
             | I got not one taker in the past few years. I offered to
             | work paid - I go through the interview process where I
             | don't asked get asked tech questions, just the touchy-feely
             | stuff which I can't stand out in (who can?).
             | 
             | Point is, interviewing could be made a lot simpler and more
             | effective I think; per
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33334492 I don't think
             | you need to spend "half of all their time interviewing and
             | hiring new employees". You should be able to filter far
             | more efficiently. That's my point, not whingeing about my
             | particular case.
        
       | tdullien wrote:
       | Something that the interview unfortunately does not address: in
       | their contract-then-hire setup, how did they deal with engineers
       | (that usually have crazy broad IP assignment Agreements on their
       | day jobs)?
        
       | 10g1k wrote:
       | Or "lessons".
        
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       (page generated 2022-10-25 23:01 UTC)