[HN Gopher] macOS Ventura is now available
___________________________________________________________________
macOS Ventura is now available
Author : anuragsoni
Score : 246 points
Date : 2022-10-24 17:09 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
| munificent wrote:
| Apple used to feel to me like a company that sold user
| experiences and the hardware was a means to that end. Now it
| feels like an electronics company that sells consumer hardware,
| and the user experience is just a necessary cost to be minimized.
| rado wrote:
| Stage Manager is wonderful, because I can finally group an iOS
| simulator with the Safari inspector window that inspects it.
| neilv wrote:
| The Mac (historically being known for desktop publishing) should
| know that Ventura was someone else's brand.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corel_Ventura
| anigbrowl wrote:
| It's OK to double up trademarked brands as long as it's in a
| different market. But you have to pretend to be upset about it
| in court to avoid claims that you have abandoned your
| trademark, which is why Apple sues every company with a name
| like 'Apple fruit company'.
| rcarmo wrote:
| All those improvements and the Mail experience is still lousy
| when you need to quickly move messages to folders. I have been
| relying on MsgFiler[1] for years, but it's been over two decades
| and Mail.app has not improved much (and mind you, I still prefer
| using Mail.app over anything else on a Mac). Thank goodness we
| still have plugins.
|
| [1]: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/msgfiler/id418778021?mt=12
| [deleted]
| russellbeattie wrote:
| I don't use Safari, Mail, Photos, iCloud or Spotlight (except to
| start apps - I deselect all the other options), and only activate
| the sidebar/widgets on accident (out of sight, out of mind). Nor
| do I own an iPad or play games on my Mac. I'm sure I'll never use
| Stage Manager and hope it's something I can turn off.
|
| In short, this upgrade is simply an hour or so of annoyance, but
| Apple is Apple. You take the good with the bad. I have a dream -
| which will never happen - of a "MinMac" setting on install where
| you just get the least amount of cruft possible.
| mikae1 wrote:
| Is there anything there for _people like us_? Can 't remember the
| last time I got excited about upgrading macOS.
| city17 wrote:
| There's a few nice quality of life features in Ventura, but MacOS
| really seems way down Apple's priority list nowadays.
|
| They're using all software building resources for iOS and then
| just slap any reusable features on their desktop OS whenever
| possible. Great when it works for apps that are quite similar
| (e.g. messages), terrible for things that simply work very
| differently on a desktop OS (system settings, stage manager is
| pointless etc.).
|
| Good opportunity for Windows to finally beat MacOS in UI/UX,
| since they don't have a mobile OS to worry about?
| [deleted]
| imbnwa wrote:
| Windows hasn't even ported all their Win2K GUIs to whatever
| their current UI framework is
| VancouverMan wrote:
| Those tend to be the most usable parts of modern Windows
| releases.
| galoisscobi wrote:
| I'm usually excited about macOS releases but this one is an
| underwhelming update and don't see any reason to update any time
| soon.
|
| Stage manager seems like a half measure to introduce better
| window management in macOS and it doesn't help that it doesn't
| support a keyboard only workflow, from what I can tell from the
| demos.
|
| Coming from i3wm, I found Yabai to be an excellent keyboard-first
| window manager. I do wish something like Yabai was built into
| macOS.
| alin23 wrote:
| I've been testing Stage Manager since the first developer beta
| of Ventura and it did feel awkward, as it had no keyboard
| control, and I feel slower when pointing and clicking to switch
| apps.
|
| But after adding support for it in my rcmd app
| (https://lowtechguys.com/rcmd), and tuning yabai's grid a bit,
| I found it quite useful for my workflow.
|
| Here's a video on how I use Stage Manager with the keyboard
| shortcuts in rcmd, if you'd like to see if the same workflow
| would be useful for you: https://youtu.be/dlwjSf7aIy8
|
| I'm also giving out some promo codes for rcmd to give people a
| chance to try this functionality and see if they like it:
| *previous codes redeemed*
|
| EDIT: Dang, you guys are fast. Here are 10 more codes, and if
| you want more, there's also a Twitter giveaway here:
| https://twitter.com/lowtechguys/status/1584596195326177281
| RHKWKLML7YHA 9HL7XALHANL6 XP7N6N7PFJRP
| AWA37JJLA9LJ 3FR6JR4LPPAF 93TFMMX6KM6M
| 7K4YLM6H3P6E 36MWRHWF7TM7 RTM9HEEAHTA7
| AEMNXEX6WFPK
| selectodude wrote:
| So nobody else has to waste time trying all of these codes -
| they're all burned up. Sorry folks :)
| alin23 wrote:
| Added some more
| JadeNB wrote:
| How do you redeem a promo code? The app store just asks me to
| buy, and the trial doesn't have any obvious place to enter a
| promo code.
| mikestew wrote:
| Mac App Store app, click your user name in the lower left
| corner. Now the upper right corner has a link button
| "Redeem Gift Card". Click that, enter the code.
| phildenhoff wrote:
| Grabbed one of the codes -- thank you! Excited to try out
| rcmd
| ValentineC wrote:
| Managed to snag 36MWRHWF7TM7. Thanks for the giveaway!
| mrtksn wrote:
| I didn't know I needed this but it is surprisingly pleasant
| to switch apps this way, thanks.
|
| ps: I used the YP33H9AP9NFH code, so try the other ones.
| evilduck wrote:
| Not to diminish the work put into making this workflow
| easier to use, but you can completely replicate this
| workflow (and then some) with out of the box macOS tooling
| by creating an "Open <xyz.app>" script in Shortcuts, moving
| them into the Quick Actions folder and then jumping to
| System Preferences > Keyboard > Shortcuts > Services and
| then assigning key combinations to launch Shortcuts.app
| Quick Actions.
| alin23 wrote:
| For sure you can. I had this workflow with manually added
| keybindings through many methods over the years: skhd,
| Hammerspoon, BetterTouchTool etc.
|
| I just found that the functionality is useful enough to
| warrant an app that can dynamically assign these hotkeys
| based on the apps I use.
|
| For example I change browsers often to test new
| additions. And because I have rcmd-B set to
| focus/launch/hide my current browser app, I can keep my
| muscle memory even after switching from Safari to
| Firefox. In rcmd I just press rcmd-ralt-B to reassign
| that hotkey, in previous workflows this involved editing
| a specific file, or opening a preferences window and
| finding the right setting to change.
|
| The experimental window switching/opening using Right
| Option is also something very useful and really hard to
| replicate using default macOS tools.
| flutas wrote:
| To save everyone else: All the codes seem to have been
| redeemed.
| alin23 wrote:
| Added some more
| drexlspivey wrote:
| The feature that made me jump into beta is that Shortcuts now
| appear in the share sheet so it's the same experience like iOS.
| Much easier to create/test shortcuts on the mac
| ezfe wrote:
| I'm updating for these features: better iMessage (editing /
| unsending / mark as unread), Shared iCloud Photo Library,
| duplicate detection in Photos, Continuity Camera, Weather app,
| multi-stop Maps routing
| kevinpet wrote:
| > duplicate detection in Photos
|
| What? Finally!
| alwillis wrote:
| _Continuity Camera_
|
| I've been on the betas all summer; Continuity Camera is
| probably the most Apple-like feature in Ventura. It seems
| almost magical in how it "just works".
| umutcankus wrote:
| I don't understand why it is not avaliable for iPad.
| Usually, I am using my macbook lid closed and I have an
| iPad in my desk. It would be very good to use its camera
| and mics for video calls.
| gnicholas wrote:
| Does Mark As Unread affect whether it shows as read by the
| sender?
| behnamoh wrote:
| > Coming from i3wm, I found Yabai to be an excellent keyboard-
| first window manager. I do wish something like Yabai was built
| into macOS.
|
| For those on Windows, there is an equivalent app called bug.n
| that mimics dwm.
| vbezhenar wrote:
| One big feature for me is much improved Virtualization
| framework. I'm eager for
| https://github.com/docker/roadmap/issues/384 to be closed. Must
| solve some QoL issues for me.
| naikrovek wrote:
| same. this is huge for me.
| antipaul wrote:
| For keyboard control, I've gotten into using "Hide <app>" or
| "Hide others" cmd(-option)-h
|
| This keeps the workspace nice and clean
|
| For switching apps, either cmd-tab or cmd-` or with Alfred App
|
| Indeed, for moving windows to left/right/etc, you may need an
| app like Rectangle
|
| You _could_ add custom shortcuts in Settings - Keyboard for
| menu items like Zoom or "Move Window to Left Side of Screen"
| but it's a bit limited.
|
| What is missing? I guess some people like live preview in cmd-
| tab, but I've been ok without it.
| ohCh6zos wrote:
| I've played around with stage manager and it has left me
| scratching my head. It seems to have so much weird whitespace.
| terhechte wrote:
| With Ventura there's Rosetta support in Linux VMs. This is
| something I'm a bit excited about.
| jedberg wrote:
| If they put a bunch of new features in the OS, everyone
| complains, "Why don't they focus on stability!!"
|
| If they focus on stability, everyone says, "Not enough new
| features to be worth the upgrade".
|
| I guess no one can be happy. Or they expect a ton of new
| instantly stable features...
| eastbound wrote:
| Why can't we have no features AND unstability? If the rumor
| spreads that Apple doesn't succeed to fine enough OS-level
| programmers, it's precisely because all of usability +
| stability + innovation are going down at the same time. Gone
| are the days where you'd expect Apple to launch a new APFS,
| encryption, or a general SSO solution for employees across
| all Apple devices.
|
| Which is sorely needed.
|
| Because honestly I'm afraid of paying $12 to $24 per device
| per employee and per month for an SSO+MDM solution that would
| make me depend on a dodgy Windows-style UI (Jamf) or worse,
| all my employees' ability to login would depend on Okta.
| acdha wrote:
| > it's precisely because all of usability + stability +
| innovation are going down at the same time
|
| What are you basing that claim on? The only part
| recognizable from experience for me is the innovation claim
| and even that is dubious since the entire industry is
| plateauing as things mature.
| rz2k wrote:
| Historically, the uninspiring and underwhelming major releases
| of OS X and macOS have ended up being the ones that users ended
| up having the most positive feelings about over the long term.
| They have tended to focus on faster performance, refining past
| features, and security improvements without the simultaneous
| introduction of fresh annoyances.
|
| However, since you aren't really missing anything in terms of
| new features, it also doesn't hurt to wait for a couple point
| releases to let other people find remaining bugs first.
| atfzl wrote:
| Resident Evil Village is launching on 28 Oct with Apple Silicon
| support!
| Cyberdog wrote:
| Any word on No Man's Sky?
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| behnamoh wrote:
| > The Weather and Clock apps come to Mac with all of the features
| users know and love from iPhone, and do things like check local
| forecasts, create alarms, set timers, and more.
|
| And yet there is no Apple weather app for iPad!
| kylehotchkiss wrote:
| What? They just launched Apple Weather for iPad alongside this.
| behnamoh wrote:
| I didn't know that. IDK why it took Apple 12 years to add a
| weather app to iPad.
| kylehotchkiss wrote:
| I hear you that it took forever, they did a really good job
| with the dark sky acquisition and building a high quality
| app though. I find the new weather app more compelling than
| third party apps. Nice snappy radar, surprisingly good rain
| push notifications (I've gotten 5+ accurate push
| notifications for some unexpected San Diego rain this
| week!) and the air quality integration is far better than I
| would have anticipated!
| h4waii wrote:
| The same reason there's no Apple(tm) calculator app for
| iPad?
| pbreit wrote:
| 12GB download?
| pornel wrote:
| Only 50% larger than Xcode.
| bxparks wrote:
| It looks like Ventura drops support for the 2nd generation (Late
| 2010 to 2017) MacBook Airs
| (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Air). So let's figure one
| more year for Big Sur, then another year for (edit) Monterey,
| then I guess they will need to migrate to Linux.
| jmiserez wrote:
| Ventura even drops support for the 2016 (Touchbar) Macbook Pros
| which is frustrating. The machines are certainly powerful
| enough. But support for Intel Macs will probably be dropped
| sooner rather than later.
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| Still on Catalina here, yikes
|
| (Concerns about potential VirtualBox issues held me back though
| I suppose I can/should at least upgrade to Monterey now.)
| gw99 wrote:
| Updated already. Seems stable and they fixed a few annoying bugs
| in reminders.
| sramsay wrote:
| Ventura and iPadOS 16 dropped (along with iOS 16.1), but not
| Xcode 14.1 (which is still RC). I don't recall them ever not
| releasing Xcode at the same time as an OS update.
| rcarmo wrote:
| Well, I certainly hope the command-line tools are up to date.
| Otherwise upgrading brew and all its ecosystem might be
| somewhat of a pain.
| sramsay wrote:
| Right now, homebrew is refusing to compile packages from
| source: Error: Your Xcode (14.0.1) is too
| outdated. Please update to Xcode 14.1 (or delete it).
| Xcode can be updated from the App Store.
| alwillis wrote:
| I've been running Homebrew on Ventura beta all summer; if
| you don't want to install the entire colossal Xcode 14.1,
| you probably just need the latest command line tools [1].
|
| [1]: https://download.developer.apple.com/Developer_Tools/C
| ommand...
| rcarmo wrote:
| There _is_ a switch for that someplace. Or check the
| environment variables in the docs, I had that issue once in
| the past.
| jiripospisil wrote:
| And iOS 15.7 seems to be already abandoned.
| ehutch79 wrote:
| So no security updates or anything?
| [deleted]
| alwillis wrote:
| iOS 15.7 got a bunch of security updates [1] last month; it's
| still a supported operating system. There's no reason to
| believe there won't be future security updates if they're
| necessary.
|
| Apple released a security update for iOS 12 a couple of
| months ago [2], an operating system released a little over 4
| years ago. I think you're good.
|
| [1]: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213445
|
| [2]: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213428
| jiripospisil wrote:
| > iOS 15.7 got a bunch of security updates [1] last month
|
| And nothing this month which means it's already vulnerable
| to pretty much all of the vulnerabilities that got fixed.
| Some could be iOS 16 specific but the vast majority are
| not.
|
| > Apple released a security update for iOS 12 a couple of
| months ago
|
| And fixed a single vulnerability because it was actively
| exploited in the wild, leaving the OS with hundreds of
| other vulnerabilities unfixed.
|
| Not arguing Apple should keep OS versions supported forever
| but the reality is that unless you're on the latest major
| version you're pretty much out of luck.
| alwillis wrote:
| _And nothing this month which means it 's already
| vulnerable to pretty much all of the vulnerabilities that
| got fixed. Some could be iOS 16 specific but the vast
| majority are not._
|
| The fact that there hasn't been a second security update
| for iOS 15 doesn't mean another one isn't coming which it
| almost certainly is.
|
| _unless you 're on the latest major version you're
| pretty much out of luck_
|
| As I just mentioned, iOS 12, a 4-year old operating
| system got updated a couple of month ago and iOS 15 will
| continue getting updates obviously.
|
| To put things in perspective, updating iOS 12 means
| devices as old as the iPhone 5s were updated. The iPhone
| 5s first shipped September _2013_ --over 9 years ago!
|
| I suspect Android devices released 9 years ago haven't
| been updated in a long long time.
|
| Besides, by the summer of 2023, something like 80+% of
| the installed base will be on iOS 16, which is what
| happens every year. iOS 16 is already a little ahead of
| where iOS 15 installs were at the same time last year
| [1].
|
| [1]: https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/09/14/ios-16-ad
| option-s...
| ccouzens wrote:
| The iOS 12 update mentioned is for webkit
|
| https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213428
|
| Depending on your Android version the equivalent is
| either webview or Chrome.
|
| The requirements for which are Android 5 and Android 4
| respectively (according to a 3rd party website I found-
| the play store annoyingly doesn't list system
| requirements).
|
| These were released 2014 and 2011.
|
| Sometimes I think Google should be more in your face
| about app updates, especially ones that would be
| considered part of the operating system in other
| ecosystems.
| howinteresting wrote:
| The iOS 12 update was a one-off fix to an actively
| exploited vulnerability in Safari. Plenty of other bugs
| are still unpatched.
|
| Plenty of old Android devices get some security updates
| too. For example, Chrome on Android is updated to the
| latest version on all phones running Android 6, which was
| released in 2015. Android long-term support isn't great,
| but that doesn't mean that old versions receive no
| security patches at all.
| satysin wrote:
| The RC will most likely be promoted to release within the next
| 24 hours like with Xcode 14 and 14.0.1
| sramsay wrote:
| Except not this time. RC 2 was just released.
| jbverschoor wrote:
| Stagemanager is very nice. I could see a "touchbar" right next to
| the trackpad. That would be very nice to switch apps
| anigbrowl wrote:
| The update is cool but the update process was not.
| -Update available, wanna install? Sure -OK don't mind
| me I'm gonna need a while OK -HA HA I LIED I"M READY
| TO TERMINATE EVERYTHING BYEEEE WTF 5 reboots with
| just an Apple icon and a progress bar The progress bar also
| moves backwards sometimes I guess it's a metaphor for life,
| which is how long this seems to be taking -OK hello I am
| back but I need 10 minutes of alone time -Here is some
| unfamiliar wallpaper but you can log in I guess -Oh it's
| you again, do you want to share analytics with us -OK here
| is your familiar desktop, I am not telling you what has changed
| Um preferences -Oh hai I'm called Settings now and I
| reorganized everything Yikes but OK this is sorta well laid
| out I guess -Hello I am Stage Manager, I put a desktop on
| your desktop so you can work while you work Sorta neat, can
| I configure some things differently though -No
|
| Funnily enough I had just started reading the _Ars Technica_
| review when the upgrade took place so that helped with navigating
| the changes but it was an oddly jarring transition. I get that
| Apple doesn 't like burdening users with too much technical
| information (as in 'any') but given how significantly the
| Settings app has changed I'm surprised there was no Release notes
| or feature tour of any kind.
| macjohnmcc wrote:
| I did the upgrade without issues but when it rebooted the final
| time it signed me on and automatically started everything I had
| running before and I didn't even realize it had completed until
| I checked the OS version in the about. Probably the least
| noticeable difference in OS upgrades in a while.
| yamtaddle wrote:
| > Um preferences -Oh hai I'm called Settings now and I
| reorganized everything
|
| Oh good. I find it by typing "settings" 100% of the time
| because I can never remember what it's called ("System
| Preferences", evidently) but that works less-well than it might
| since that's not the name--it doesn't fully match until I've
| typed the whole word.
| zitterbewegung wrote:
| I've used macs since system 7 and it went from oh I know what
| to click to basically me typing in the search bar for what to
| find.
| deergomoo wrote:
| I got a Windows PC for the first time in over a decade recently
| and I cannot understand why MacOS updates are so damned slow
| runjake wrote:
| Because on newer Macs, it's rewriting the whole OS partition
| with a new firmware image, much like iOS and IPSW files.
|
| Windows, on the other hand, generally does incremental
| upgrades.
| zamalek wrote:
| This isn't really a viable excuse. Silverblue is also
| immutable and updates are applied in under 10 seconds
| _prior_ to reboot (which is never affected by updates).
|
| Coming from Windows and Linux, macOS had been a very
| unpleasant experience for me. It's full of papercuts.
| Nextgrid wrote:
| Windows' updates got much less granular since Windows 10.
| It used to be that updates were delivered in individual
| packages that can be installed and uninstalled
| independently (within reason).
|
| Nowadays more and more updates come in a "rollup" package
| which is a bundle of many updates and it's take it or leave
| it. Even worse, some of the bigger feature updates are
| actually full OS reinstalls under the hood.
| js2 wrote:
| It's not how old the Mac is, but rather whether its running
| macOS Catalina or newer when Apple switched to a separate
| read-only system volume:
|
| https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210650
| baal80spam wrote:
| > on newer Macs, it's rewriting the whole OS partition with
| a new firmware image
|
| TIL
| js2 wrote:
| Apple switched to a read-only system volume beginning
| with macOS Catalina, released 3 years ago.
|
| https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210650
| derefr wrote:
| That doesn't imply it should be slow; that should imply it
| should be _fast_.
|
| At least, given that macOS is using a copy-on-write
| filesystem such that you can share blocks between multiple
| volumes/snapshots -- which it is; and that the OS base-
| image is a sealed "everyone has the same cryptographic
| checksum" volume -- which it is; and that Apple are using a
| binary-diff-based "create aside" OS-image update process,
| like ChromiumOS/CoreOS -- which they are. They _should_
| only have to write out disk pages for the changes, and then
| just _link_ the existing pages in to form the rest of the
| extents. Like a `btrfs receive`.
|
| But for some reason, despite all that fancy tech, it's
| _still_ slow; _and_ the install process still requires
| rebooting into a separate Recovery OS to do parts of the
| installation. Which, given the "create aside" part
| especially, is just ridiculous. You _should_ be able to
| just run the installer in the background as you 're using
| your device, and eventually be told "when you reboot, it'll
| be into the new OS."
| throwup wrote:
| That can't be the whole story.
|
| If we assume the drive can write 500MB/s (conservative),
| and an OS install takes up 50GB of space (conservative), it
| should take less than 2 minutes to write the partition.
| Where does the other 58 minutes go?
| runjake wrote:
| I jumped on the upgrade bandwagon quickly this morning
| and the entire upgrade took about 15 minutes on my M1 MBP
| 13".
|
| Presumably, you're experiencing the same download issues
| my work MBP is experiencing. It's been downloading for
| over an hour and is just barely past 50%. My Internet
| bandwidth is 10G real-world and un-busy, so presumably
| Apple's CDN is getting hit good.
| vbezhenar wrote:
| I wondered the same about Linux installers. I'm
| installing some kind of debian minimal which will take
| 300 MB on disk. It should be installed in a fraction of
| the second. Instead it takes minutes. All installer
| should do is: dd pre-assembled Ext3 filesystem from ISO
| to disk; extend filesystem to the desired size; write
| some configs like fstab. It could be really fast.
|
| My guess is that nobody really took the time to optimize
| it. Installation is only one-time procedure and even it
| if takes a hour, who cares.
| sitzkrieg wrote:
| thatd work if it wasnt for (some) settings of course. but
| even then, image and then update /etc and friends and
| done but here we are
| vbernat wrote:
| What you describe is the cloud image. You can dd it to
| your hard drive and it should work as is (initial
| password will be displayed on first boot).
|
| As for Debian, the slowness comes mostly for fsync calls
| I think. You should be able to use eatmydata to avoid
| this. See: https://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Quicke
| r_Debian_insta...
| lxgr wrote:
| At much of it, the OS and even applications actually seem
| to be running. I remember a macOS update with the full-
| screen progress bar, where a few minutes in, a browser
| tab suddenly started playing music, with no way to turn
| it off...
| stalfosknight wrote:
| EFI updates are sometimes included with new versions of
| macOS.
| Bud wrote:
| g_p wrote:
| There doesn't seem to be a good reason for the slowness, but
| a reasonably good technical write-up on the update mechanism
| is available at [0]. The time spent rebooting does seem
| excessive, especially when using image-based updates.
|
| [0] https://eclecticlight.co/2022/03/19/explainer-macos-
| updaters...
| anigbrowl wrote:
| Windows does frequent incremental updates and makes them
| pretty painless, but has a bad habit of just letting the
| installation files pile up and fill your storage. If you or
| your PC supplier have the habit of having a small-medium boot
| disk (or partition) for just your OS and applications this
| can yield unwelcome surprises.
| ar_lan wrote:
| My previous experience with Windows (~3 years ago) was that
| every single update took ~2 hours to complete, and they were
| asking to update weekly.
|
| I used to game weekly with my friends, and because of the
| above problem, I would have to turn on my computer the night
| before and start the update so I would be able to reliably
| play a game the following day - otherwise, there was an
| extremely good chance that they would start gaming at 8pm and
| I wouldn't be able to join until roughly 10pm due to the
| Windows updates.
|
| At the time, this was Windows 10. I eventually just switch to
| an old Xbox (ironically, still Microsoft), which was far more
| reliable (although XBox updates take forever too), because we
| could cross-play Apex Legends. But that is an 8 year old XBox
| One and it finally has crapped out on me.
|
| I'm currently finishing up getting parts for a new PC build,
| which will have Windows 11, and I really dread it. I wish
| Apex was for Linux because I just want to have a Linux-based
| gaming environment.
|
| --
|
| Anyway - all this to say... macOS major updates might be
| slow, but they happen so infrequently, that it's not nearly a
| big deal. Minor security patches are almost never that slow
| for me, especially compared to Windows.
| Scharkenberg wrote:
| > My previous experience with Windows (~3 years ago) was
| that every single update took ~2 hours to complete, and
| they were asking to update weekly.
|
| Unless you _manually_ seek preview updates, Windows gets
| updates once per month, on Patch Tuesday (a twenty-year
| tradition now).
|
| Two hours for "every single update" sounds implausible for
| Windows 10 because Microsoft has implemented changes to
| minimize the "offline phase" of the updates to mere minutes
| - even on HDDs.
|
| Which brings to my last point. If updates were taking long,
| then your OS was most certainly installed on a HDD.
| Everyone knows HDDs are slow as hell.
|
| Seriously, what was the point of replying with complaints
| about Windows on slow hardware and comparing it to mac OS
| on fast hardware? It almost feels dishonest.
|
| And for the record, Ventura is installing on the Mac as I
| type this on my Windows machine. The 22H2 update for
| Windows 11 had an offline phase of under 10 minutes and I
| have a non-NMVe SSD here. The Mac has already been down for
| about 15 and it's not even done yet.
| OmahaBoy69 wrote:
| I also had this issue. You can easily solve the problem by
| disabling the Windows update service in Services.msc.
| gw99 wrote:
| Wait until you buy a NOS Windows PC for the first time. I had
| a T495 take nearly two hours to run all updates in. About 20
| minutes of that was it fannying around working out what to
| do.
|
| My MBP took 10 mins to update earlier. That's fine.
| faluzure wrote:
| Very curious to know if Venture + VM + Linux + Steam is a setup
| that'll work with the new VM support.
|
| I kind of want to play some old school windows games, but I don't
| want to pay for parallels.
| sbuk wrote:
| Try UTM https://mac.getutm.app
| rubyist5eva wrote:
| Not OP but offering perspective: I've tried it and it's so
| painfully slow that I just coughed up the money for
| parallels.
| sbuk wrote:
| I wholeheartedly agree :)
| hcarvalhoalves wrote:
| turtlebits wrote:
| I think you forgot two important points:
|
| - It's not required - It doesn't cost you anything
| alanwreath wrote:
| I'm gonna guess you have not tried continuity camera....Then
| again maybe you don't care but it solidly upgraded my camera
| experience on the Mac through my Apple phone. I mean.
| This.Is.What.We're.Talking.About.With.EcoSystem. Today, I was
| finally glad to be drinking the coolaid (and I'm typing this
| from an x86 machine).
|
| That said, I share your frustration, I _do_ happen to have a
| cluster of PopOS machines behind me for my kids (and I am
| sincerely digging that OS, but it also has it 's warts)
| terracatta wrote:
| For IT/Security folks looking for a good rundown of what's new we
| put this together, talks about Passkeys, RSR, Gatekeeper
| improvements, and Lockdown mode.
|
| https://www.kolide.com/blog/the-security-and-it-admin-s-guid...
| highwaylights wrote:
| Passkeys is a bit of an odd one.
|
| They've been listing it as a Ventura upgrade, and all the
| marketing (more or less) points to this as a Ventura-and-later
| feature, but it's on Big Sur and Monterey too.
| jshier wrote:
| It's really a Safari 16.1 feature, and 16.1 was released with
| Ventura, so I guess they're capitalizing on that publicity to
| drive the feature.
| matai_kolila wrote:
| Did this update add an "archive" feature to Messages? I can't
| directly tell from this summary ("powerful" isn't all that
| descriptive, turns out).
| lelandfe wrote:
| And the legions of System Settings, Control Center, and Share
| Panel accessibility problems remain intact. I don't even
| understand the point of filing bugs during these betas anymore;
| macOS seems destined to be an unusable quagmire.
|
| This stuff was noticed months ago:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31669950
| ngrilly wrote:
| To switch to another window, we already had Command-Tab, Mission
| Control, Expose (now part of Mission Control if I understand
| correctly), and also clicking on the icons in the Dock. And now
| we have Stage Manager. I had to use Windows 10 as my main
| workstation for a few weeks at work, and I'm starting to think
| windows management is - perhaps - one of the rare things Windows
| does better than macOS. But of course I should probably try Stage
| Manager before ranting about it here :)
| GeekyBear wrote:
| A fairly good description of what's (optionally) new and what
| hasn't changed at all.
|
| >Apple wisely takes an ain't-broke-don't-fix-it approach to
| macOS's standard multitasking model in Ventura by turning Stage
| Manager off by default and making people go hunting for it if
| they want to use it. You can't change your Mac's UI in a major
| way by accident.
|
| If you haven't used it, Stage Manager differs from standard
| macOS multitasking by offering a column of recently used apps
| on the side of your screen (it's the left-hand side by default,
| but it will switch if you've got your Dock set to use the left-
| hand side of your screen instead). But unlike minimizing or
| maximizing an app from the Dock, each "stage" can contain
| multiple app windows from multiple apps; switch from one stage
| to another, and every window on that stage will pop back up on
| your screen in exactly the arrangement you were using before.
|
| Within a given stage, app windows work exactly as they do
| anywhere else on your Mac. You can move, resize, and rearrange
| them any way you want, including shoving them all the way to
| the edges of the screen. The recent apps column will persist on
| the side of the screen by default, but it will get out of the
| way if you move an app window over it; you can bring the apps
| back up by moving your cursor to the right edge of the screen.
|
| Stage Manager integrates seamlessly with macOS's other window
| management systems. Do you still want to use some apps in Full
| Screen mode? Great--they don't appear in your recent apps tray,
| and you can access them with a trackpad swipe, the same as you
| could before. Do you like Mission Control? Also cool. Apps in
| your tray slide gracefully up into Mission Control mode, along
| with any open apps that aren't in your tray.
|
| https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/macos-13-ventura-the...
| CubsFan1060 wrote:
| I still feel like this will be their unified desktop across all
| products, including AR/VR glasses.
|
| If you take away the background, the way that it's arranged
| feels very AR-y to me.
| rcarr wrote:
| Great shout. Just sounds like typical marketing nonsense
| naming on iPad/Mac and also doesn't seem to immediately bring
| much to the table but makes total sense if this is the case.
| Fits in with Shakespeare's famous observation that "all the
| world's a stage".
| behnamoh wrote:
| This. It's unacceptable that macOS still doesn't support basic
| window management and users have to install
| Tiles/Spectacles/Magnet/etc.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| Those sound like advanced or niche window management tools -
| not 'basic'?
| e12e wrote:
| I feel I've regained some sanity with
| https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai - even without messing
| with System Integrity Protection. It's a shame there's no
| real Api to enable proper screen/desktop/wm on macos though.
| dabernathy89 wrote:
| Completely agree. I use Rectangle, largely for the most basic
| thing that MacOS gets wrong: maximizing windows. It shouldn't
| be the same as "full screen". I know that you can double tap
| a window's top bar to maximize, but this should be swapped
| with the full-screen toggle. And cmd+shift+f should maximize
| the window instead of going to full-screen.
| sbuk wrote:
| Is it? I mean _really_ "unacceptable"? Inconvenient, perhaps,
| but "unacceptable"? Sounds pretty first-worldy to me...
| hhjinks wrote:
| I disagree. Nothing beats macOS's multiple desktops that you
| can swap between by swiping with three fingers. I know exactly
| where my windows are, exactly how to get to them from anywhere,
| and their order is never changed. Leagues better than alt+tab.
| AA-BA-94-2A-56 wrote:
| Just to add, I don't use a trackpad and I still use multiple
| desktops using the key shortcut ^ + Arrow Keys.
| Scharkenberg wrote:
| One can swipe between virtual desktops on Windows 10 and 11
| too, provided one has a Touchpad model from the last 10
| years.
| [deleted]
| russellbeattie wrote:
| My ability to accidentally hit Command-Q instead of Command-
| Tab, even after years of doing it astounds me. You'd think
| muscle memory, or at least the size of the keys would give my
| fingers and brain a clue, but nope. Some apps will give you
| quit prompts but many just disappear instantly, leaving me
| befuddled about what the hell I just did.
|
| I assume some Chrome product manager is as clumsy as I am
| (bless their heart), so it will insist you hold down the Q key.
| If only that was the default.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| That's definitely subjective.
|
| For my usage/preferences, the Windows taskbar and alt-tab
| switcher scale extremely poorly. They drive me to keep no more
| than 3-4 windows open, because any additional windows beyond
| that make my desktop progressively more difficult to manage
| which feels utterly absurd on a tower with a 5950X and 32GB of
| RAM which I should feel empowered to heavily multitask with.
| pedrogpimenta wrote:
| Well, the new Mission Control is the same as the old Expose,
| just a rebrand with a few changes. But you forgot Command-`
| (backtick) which cycles windows from the same (current) app.
| wyuenho wrote:
| I think you've forgotten about Spaces.
|
| I've been maximizing the windows for every app on the built-in
| screen since forever. More recently I've been using Rectangle
| when my MBP is connected to my new 27" screen. It works quite
| well but the layouts require a bit of nannying, I guess it's
| just a matter of me familiarizing myself with the keyboard
| shortcuts.
|
| [1]: https://rectangleapp.com/
| trenchgun wrote:
| Windows and KDE in linux do the window management best. They
| use essentially the same model for it.
| kawsper wrote:
| Don't forget CMD+` that switches to another window of the same
| application.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| Honestly, where Mac Window management has always shined is
| through the use of gestures on a touchpad.
| wortelefant wrote:
| option + < on german systems/keyboards. keyboard shortcuts
| are not very accessible to the beginner user though. When my
| older relatives open youtube videos in fullscreen mode, they
| do not find their other browser window anymore
| heavenlyblue wrote:
| And Linux does even better
| samuelstros wrote:
| I concluded that Windows has a better window management too. It
| is no coincidence that Mac users have hundreds of windows open
| while Windows users stay relatively organized.
|
| I tried out uBar for Mac OS https://ubarapp.com/. Too buggy
| though.
| tinus_hn wrote:
| Windows has such great window management its users have much
| less windows open and thus manage much less windows than the
| MacOS, which has such bad window management its users manage
| hundreds of windows.
|
| It does not make a whole lot of sense.
| samuelstros wrote:
| I see where you are coming from.
|
| Windows has great window management = less chaos, less
| orphan open windows Mac OS has inferior window management =
| chaos, hundreds of open windows
|
| The main reasons stems from the fact that Windows open
| window discoverability is higher. Open windows are always
| displayed in the menu bar. MacOS only displays the app icon
| but provides no information about the open windows except
| for pressing F3.
|
| I hope that answer makes sense.
| rubyist5eva wrote:
| > It is no coincidence that Mac users have hundreds of
| windows open while Windows users stay relatively organized.
|
| Personally, I leave tons of windows open because I feel no
| need to keep things "organized". I rarely feel the need to
| constantly micro manage things that are running because
| cmd+tab and cmd+` along with mission control/expose/spaces
| makes it pretty simple to find what I'm looking for. My
| individual windows go into pretty specific positions and they
| rarely move, and I also rarely fully close applications.
| justinator wrote:
| _macOS Ventura takes the Mac experience to a whole new level with
| groundbreaking capabilities that help users achieve more than
| ever._
|
| Now there's a nothing burger sentence to start us off.
| mastercheif wrote:
| Well to be fair the macOS PM's probably didn't give the
| marketing team anything to work with. Likely told them to just
| file radars/feedback if they had any questions.
| justinator wrote:
| Honestly I have higher standards for Apple telling me why I
| should upgrade and not just a rehash of ZOMBO.
| Maursault wrote:
| Was anyone able to resist upgrading from 12.6.1 to 13.0?
|
| I've never been enthusiastic about Apple's annual upgrade
| schedule for macOS, biannual was far more comfortable. When
| responsible for users' desktops, I tend to wait for months after
| at least .1 is released and even then only start with one lucky
| user for weeks of trial period, and I do the same with
| application updates. Invariably, users ask for upgrades, and I
| make them tell me what new features or security enhancements they
| can't do without, and that usually calms them down.
|
| At home, I'm still holding out on 10.14.6, but this old mini is
| only supported up to 10.15.7, so I figured I might as well freeze
| upgrading on Mojave so I can still run legacy 32-bit software if
| I want it. I may even downgrade to 10.13 so I can build Basilisk
| II and other 32-bit only software, but I suppose I can still use
| binaries, so not absolutely necessary. I just don't need new
| hardware yet, so I have the luxury of waiting until after Apple
| stops selling M1 minis. They're so reasonable to begin with, my
| hope is they can soon after be found for a song. I really want a
| 2018 Mini, also, but they'll take longer to come down in price,
| unfortunately and for no particularly great reason.
| tnmears wrote:
| Did anyone else get a Safari window after the update with a
| iCloud page to setup family sharing?
| sergiotapia wrote:
| I can't help but wonder how Steve Jobs would have flipped out if
| he saw something like this on his devices.
| https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/product/availability/A...
| howinteresting wrote:
| Given that Steve Jobs actively colluded with Eric Schmidt to
| depress worker wages, maybe he was just a bad person and should
| be memory-holed. We can build a better world without him.
|
| https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/42322/steve-jobs-chill...
| jacobsenscott wrote:
| sergiotapia wrote:
| A real prick move but irrelevant to what I'm talking about.
| I'm talking about Steve's relentless pursuit of design
| perfection.
| thebitstick wrote:
| AMP
| howinteresting wrote:
| https://time.com/42322/steve-jobs-chilling-response-after-
| ge...
| outsidetheparty wrote:
| I'm so confused by that photo. Are you supposed to just duct-
| tape your phone to the laptop?
| anigbrowl wrote:
| Expand your digital world while your apartment shrinks to the
| size of a closet
| killjoywashere wrote:
| They are preparing us for when they put phone grade cams in
| the MacBook: "We compressed everything you love about the
| iPhone camera, and it's entire ecosystem, into this tiny,
| adorable little bump on the lid" complete with a $5M, 30
| second video intro. And then it will be the coolest wart
| ever.
| ekzy wrote:
| It'd be cool if they used the iPhone built in magnets, and
| then display your phone stuff in the OS
| alwillis wrote:
| Belkin's iPhone Mount _does_ use the magnets required by
| MagSafe [1].
|
| [1]: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HQ642ZM/A/belkin-
| iphone-m...
| ekzy wrote:
| But it'd be even better if the laptop lid was just
| magnetic!
| [deleted]
| iammjm wrote:
| wtf is this foto, like how is this iphone half the size of the
| mac? also, is it taped to the mac? I bet it would actually just
| drag the lid down with its weight. so it stands on something?
| bombcar wrote:
| _big.jpg.medium.jpg is a nice touch
| BurningFrog wrote:
| Stopped reading at
|
| > _With Continuity Camera, Mac users can leverage the powerful
| camera system on iPhone to unleash a groundbreaking webcam
| experience_
|
| I don't have the energy to parse a lot of text like this...
| zestyping wrote:
| Countless person-years of engineering effort, and Spotlight is
| still mostly useless.
|
| All I want is to hit Command-F to quickly search the filenames in
| the current folder (not start a sluggish scan of my entire hard
| disk). There used to be workarounds for this, but then they
| removed "Find by Name..." from Finder just to make our lives
| harder. Does anyone know a workable alternative?
| lilyball wrote:
| No they didn't. Find by Name... still exists. It's ^|[?]F
| (ctrl-shift-cmd-F). You might have missed it because it's a
| dynamic menu item (Find turns into Find by Name... once you
| press ^|).
|
| Tip: Use the Help menu to search menu items. I just pressed
| [?]? and typed "Find" and Find by Name... popped up.
| sitzkrieg wrote:
| very intuitive /s
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| You can do name:searchitem and it'll find by name.
| vvilliamperez wrote:
| I'm still on Monty, does this work? https://imgur.com/a/ExV2wrP
| samlader wrote:
| I recommend checking out Raycast as an alternative.
|
| https://www.raycast.com/
| jbverschoor wrote:
| Raycast is great. imo better than Alfred. Love the menu-
| search functionality.
|
| But I still use both, because Raycast doesn't support "folder
| search". I use folders in general because they don't change,
| and I usually know what I'm looking for. It (should be)/is
| also faster than searching all files.
|
| When I'm looking for a file or it's contents, I'll fall back
| to spotlight
| DavideNL wrote:
| Fyi, menu search in Alfred:
| https://github.com/BenziAhamed/Menu-Bar-Search
| rcarmo wrote:
| What I typically do is remove _anything_ (web suggestions,
| etc.) that is not related to files. Usually fixes Spotlight
| across the board.
| tambourine_man wrote:
| No workaround needed, just poorly placed settings and toggles:
|
| * Finder -> Preferences -> Advanced -> "When performing a
| search: Use the Previous Search Scope"
|
| * On any Finder window, CMD-F -> Search: This Mac / [
| FolderName ]
|
| * On the loupe: "Filename" instead of "Everything"
|
| Enjoy
| alin23 wrote:
| I still wish for something like Everything on Windows
| (https://www.voidtools.com/)
|
| I wrote my own solution using fd + sqlite + fzf but it's
| nowhere as fast as Everything, and it also requires me to focus
| the Terminal to use it.
| dirkg wrote:
| sometimes I think MSFT should buy Everything and replace
| Windows search with it. There are some plugins that use it
| for other file managers.
|
| But then again, they will almost certainly screw it up, given
| that Windows Search still can't search my start menu reliably
| without pauses. And their history with acquisitions and
| integrating tech isn't very good.
| copperx wrote:
| Things like that infuriate me and make me want to throw my
| laptop out of the window. There's no excuse for the start
| menu search not being instantaneous, but Windows isn't the
| only offender. Searching for an app on Android is also
| slow.
|
| With Windows, it is death by a thousand paper cuts. With
| Linux, you might get your arm chopped off while getting
| every device (or sleep) to work flawlessly, but once it
| works, it stays working. And small things like search work
| like you expect them to.
| warning26 wrote:
| I continue to not understand this -- The _Everything_ app was
| capable of instant search on Windows in like 2008, and yet on
| modern devices, with SSDs, far more RAM, and faster CPUs, I
| have to wait a good 2-3s for results to appear.
|
| How did one dev managed to achieve what, apparently, no
| corporate entity ever has?
| MuffinFlavored wrote:
| Everything is only fast because of an index, right?
|
| How it catches all file writes to update that index near
| instantaneously, I have no idea.
| alin23 wrote:
| Everything uses NTFS journaling as far as I know.
|
| I actually solved that by using the native macOS fsevents
| API which can watch the whole filesystem for changes, and I
| can instantly update the SQLite db I use for the index
| through that.
|
| The problem is actually enumerating and searching the whole
| database, that's the slow part. Right now I have over 5
| million rows in it and passing the SELECT results to fzf is
| the slowest part, taking a few seconds at least on an M1
| Max.
|
| I'm not sure how Everything presented the results so fast,
| with metadata and everything.
| cube2222 wrote:
| The fsevents part is interesting, didn't know that!
|
| To your point regarding the slowness - in that case it's
| not really acting as an index though, is it, if you're
| scanning the whole list and passing it to fzf?
|
| A proper fuzzy text search index (I think elastic and
| similar engines have these built-in) should yield orders
| of magnitude better performance.
| alin23 wrote:
| Yes, you're right. I did try Meilisearch for this but I
| wanted close-to-instant Smith-Waterman fuzzy searching
| which is why I settled on FZF.
|
| In the end I might have to reimplement that in Swift with
| an always cached index and native Spotlight like search
| bar to really make this as easy to use as I want.
|
| It's not practical to reach for the browser or Terminal
| to do this search.
| jks wrote:
| Happy user of Finda here: https://keminglabs.com/finda/
|
| Don't know if it works on Ventura, not upgrading until I
| know.
| yboris wrote:
| Thank you for sharing! Neat tool!
| behnamoh wrote:
| I think Apple should just buy Raycast.
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| Or Alfred, been around much longer.
| yodsanklai wrote:
| > Spotlight is still mostly useless.
|
| I use it all the time to run binaries. For instance, "cmd-space
| mail". I wouldn't know the names of the files I want to search
| anyway.
| singularity2001 wrote:
| after many years I still often type "[?]space email" and find
| nothing.
| max_hammer wrote:
| I started using Alfred app recently on my work laptop. It's far
| superior than `Spotlight`
|
| https://www.alfredapp.com/
| lelandfe wrote:
| It should be embarrassing how much faster Alfred's search is.
| Using Alfred to just search feels like using a Ferrari to
| pick up groceries, but it really is just _better_ - and has
| been for as long as I can remember.
| Hamuko wrote:
| Doesn't Alfred just use the Spotlight in the backend for
| searches?
| lelandfe wrote:
| It keeps your applications in a small (i.e fast) cache,
| so it's more or less instant when using it as an app
| finder.
|
| I think it, yes, uses the Spotlight index for finding
| files, although I wouldn't be surprised if Alfred does
| some clever stuff on top of it too.
| m000 wrote:
| What do you mean "still mostly useless"? Is there anything more
| usable on any other OS?
|
| I moved back to Windows a couple of years back. Spotlight is
| the second thing I miss most from macOS, with the first being
| Preview.
| mehrshad wrote:
| Microsoft's PowerToys has a great answer to Spotlight on
| Windows if you're so inclined to try it out.
|
| [0] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/powertoys/
| tacker2000 wrote:
| Indeed. Also, Outloook for Mac also uses Spotlight to search
| emails and this seems to break for a lot of people.
|
| The only way to fix it is to do some command line mumbo jumbo
| like rebuilding the Spotlight index and deleting index folders.
| viktorcode wrote:
| Just start typing the name. Not in the search field of Finder.
| You'll get focus on a file or folder that starts with whatever
| symbols you just typed. Very convenient and fast. Having "sort
| by name" by default in every folder helps a lot too.
| wyuenho wrote:
| You can just start typing in Finder, prefix search will Just
| Work.
| coldpie wrote:
| Like in a Finder window? I just start typing a filename and it
| jumps to the letters I typed. In the column view, you can use
| tab and shift-tab to switch between columns, allowing quick
| navigation into a directory tree. I may be misunderstanding
| you?
| natch wrote:
| in Terminal:
|
| find . -type f -name " _somestring_ "
|
| but yeah that seems like more typing than one might want
| compared to a simple text entry field in the GUI.
| mcfedr wrote:
| What's crazy, is that presumably, this is the default because
| some definition of "most people" just randomly save files all
| over the place
| chongli wrote:
| Finder -> Preferences -> Advanced.
|
| When performing a search:
|
| Search the current folder
| seanp2k2 wrote:
| also `mdfind whatever` if you prefer the CLI
| fiddlerwoaroof wrote:
| If you want by name `mdfind -name whatever`.
| orpheansodality wrote:
| wow - how is this not the default? It's always the behavior
| that I expect to happen, and I'm pretty much always surprised
| and disappointed when it does a global search instead.
| Bud wrote:
| Nextgrid wrote:
| The other comments make a good point about it being
| optimized for dumbasses that don't even understand the
| basic concepts of file management.
|
| Maybe we need a name for this behavior, I propose "idiot-
| driven-development".
| zinckiwi wrote:
| Especially when global search is only ever a Cmd-Space
| away.
| anigbrowl wrote:
| Windows also defaults to full text file searches instead of
| filenames, which is super annoying when you have thousands
| upon thousands of documents. It's often faster to open a
| terminal window, type 'dir _search string_ and open the
| file from the terminal.
| smw wrote:
| Try everything search [0], I don't think I could use
| windows without it. Just search filenames, instant, whole
| disk.
|
| [0] https://www.voidtools.com/support/everything/
| hwbehrens wrote:
| > _how is this not the default?_
|
| This is just speculation, but based on a conversation with
| my partner, there are two types of computer users. The
| first group makes use of hierarchical storage, consistent
| naming conventions, and other organizational tricks to give
| them a rough idea of where any file might be. The second
| group has never heard the term "file systems" and just
| stores everything with an arbitrary name in whatever
| location the originating application uses by default.
|
| The first group would prefer to search the given directory,
| because the supplied context (of which folder to start the
| search in) drastically improves/speeds search results. The
| second group prefers to search the entire disk, because
| supplying that additional context is impossible - any file
| might appear anywhere.
|
| The set intersection between the first group and "people
| who change their default settings" is much higher than it
| is with the second group. Consequently, the whole disk
| search is enabled by default.
|
| Additionally, given the addition of an "All My Files" view
| in Finder (a feature which the first group would probably
| find baffling), Apple may also believe that the latter
| group outnumbers the former.
| rubyist5eva wrote:
| Funny enough, I'm in the first group but prefer Finder's
| default behavior for the second group.
| drstewart wrote:
| Funny, I'm in the first group but I'd much rather have it
| search everything by default: because I organize my
| files, if I'm searching for one that means that I don't
| know where it is, so I need to look everywhere.
| mc10 wrote:
| Reminds me of this Verge article reporting that kids
| growing up with iPhones don't know what files or
| directories are:
| https://www.theverge.com/22684730/students-file-folder-
| direc...
| fossuser wrote:
| Yeah this is true, friends that are professors say they
| now have to have a basic class early in the semester that
| explains folders, files, and other basics to students.
| stouset wrote:
| To me this is definitely it. Using non-technical people's
| computers is eye-opening. Thousands of files scattered
| around on the Desktop, Documents, or wherever they just
| happened to go. Finding something in a specific directory
| would be a completely foreign concept.
| satysin wrote:
| If you have a setup script add the following to set this
| automatically: defaults write
| com.apple.finder FXDefaultSearchScope -string "SCcf"
| shoelessone wrote:
| I'm interested in what you mean by "setup script" - I
| assume you have a script of some sort you run when / if you
| re-install the OS? I'd love to hear more about this!
| satysin wrote:
| I have a simple shell script that does a bunch of setup
| for me to automate things.
|
| It grabs my dot files and restores them, installs
| Homebrew and a bunch of programs, restores their plists
| (I have backup script that backs up all their plists) and
| writes a bunch of macOS settings via the `defaults write`
| command.
|
| I can install/wipe macOS, follow the initial setting
| screens then when on the desktop I just connect to my
| NAS, copy over one script and run it in the Terminal to
| get my machine setup how I like it. It isn't perfect but
| it does about 97% of the work for me with the added bonus
| that it is consistent/reproducible for the most part so
| avoids me forgetting to change a setting some place.
|
| I don't go crazy with it as I don't wipe my machine often
| enough to justify going all out with a fully automated
| system. Honestly it is less to save time and more to
| maintain consistency and have a 'documented as code'
| record of my environment setup (not quite infrastructure
| as code levels :)
| sjg wrote:
| Look up dotfiles on GitHub - for example https://github.c
| om/mathiasbynens/dotfiles/blob/main/.macos
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| Well yes but in Ventura "Preferences" is now "Settings".
|
| -\\_(tsu)_/-
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| Agreed. Its an embarrasment.
|
| Use Alfred; I've been using it for years (10 maybe?) --
| solves this problem and is extremely useful in general
| ajgrover wrote:
| I used Alfred for 10+ years as well, but am a recent
| Raycast convert. Much larger and easier to use extension
| ecosystem, and looks nicer too IMO.
| rcarr wrote:
| +1 for Alfred. Amazing software.
| blackSnake wrote:
| ++2 for Alfred. AND it has plugins so you can search your
| Chrome or Brave tabs with Alfred as well. I just hit CMD
| + Shift + T and it'll search all my open tabs without the
| browser being in focus. I had to pay but it wasn't much.
| Use it everyday! https://github.com/epilande/alfred-
| browser-tabs
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| oooh, I hadn't seen that plugin before; nice
| kennend3 wrote:
| Thanks!! Having it search my mac by default was a mild
| annoyance (you can click search current folder once the
| search starts). But this is helpful
| ideamotor wrote:
| Hilarious this is not default. Thanks.
| ggandhi wrote:
| Check this: https://github.com/ospfranco/sol
| dorian-graph wrote:
| Having grown tired of the design of Alfread and not wanting
| to commit to VC-backed Raycast, this is a nice discovery!
| Edit: A plugin system is on the TODO and that'd be the
| clincher.
| artificialLimbs wrote:
| Basic file search is broken. Still nothing like VoidTools
| Everything-like SMB share indexing either. Maybe Spacedrive
| will have these things when released? *crosses fingers
| satysin wrote:
| Installed fine on my 2018 15" MacBook Pro. Still a good machine
| that I use as my main machine. Took about 20 minutes I guess,
| didn't time it but was ready quicker than I expected.
|
| None of the changes are life changing but oh well, isn't often a
| desktop OS really surprises me with something new these days.
| Hopefully it is as stable as Monterey was for me which didn't
| have a single crash in the whole year.
|
| Stage Manager is interesting but a very minimal effort by Apple.
| They _really_ need to work on better overall window management in
| macOS. Snapping and tighter keyboard management for moving and
| resizing windows is badly needed. Either that or they need to
| relax their accessibility restrictions for apps so that we can
| get some good third-party options without needing to disable SIP.
|
| Overall it seems to be mostly quality of life improvements, a few
| related to their primary services (such as Photo Library sharing)
| which will obviously be handy for up-selling iCloud/Apple One
| paid upgrades.
|
| I am interested to see the new virtualisation framework stuff.
| Wondering if things like Distrobox (podman) can make use of it.
| SamuelAdams wrote:
| I've been using Rectangle for window management. Works well for
| my workflow since I'll usually just pin two apps side by side,
| and jump them around different screens.
|
| It would be nice to have this feature natively though.
|
| https://rectangleapp.com/
| satysin wrote:
| Yeah I have been using Magnet since longer than I can
| remember. It is limited though. It's fine for basic snapping
| side by side or in quads but can't do multi-resizing (i.e.
| resizing two windows snapped side by side that are not
| fullscreen), doesn't have layouts, can't place a window when
| it is opened (e.g. auto snap terminal to bottom left if first
| Terminal window opened), etc.
|
| I would love to see a full manual or dynamic tiling window
| manager for macOS that didn't require disabling SIP like
| yabai does and wasn't super janky.
| d3nj4l wrote:
| You can use most of yabai without disabling SIP, and as a
| regular user the most jank in yabai IMO is some reflow that
| happens whenever your display config changes, which I think
| is largely forgivable.
| yegle wrote:
| My friend has some issues with using the `scp` command on Ventura
| to copy files to a Synology NAS.
|
| It turns out the `scp` has been updated to use sftp protocol
| since OpenSSH 8.9 and Synology seems to use a different port for
| sftp, causing some hard to understand errors.
|
| https://lwn.net/Articles/835962/ for context.
| behnamoh wrote:
| "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
|
| This applies to Ventura, Windows 11, Android 12, and iOS 16. I
| tried updating to some of these, only to regret it later and
| downgrade.
| thelibrarian wrote:
| This was an upstream change in OpenSSH, not an arbitrary
| change by Apple.
|
| Also, scp was in fact broken, and they fixed it by changing
| it to use the SFTP protocol under the hood.
| shepherdjerred wrote:
| I'm surprised they released this. I try to participate in every
| macOS beta I can. This is by far the most unstable release I've
| experienced.
|
| - Settings app has a lot of weird bugs and performance issues.
| After a restart I have to wait a few minutes before the Settings
| app actually functions. Overall the Settings app has felt like a
| step back in terms of UX and performance
|
| - Lots of weird issues with Docker (might be on Docker's side
| though)
|
| - My screen goes black after disconnecting my external monitor
| and requires a restart to fix the issue
|
| - Strange networking issues
| EGreg wrote:
| When will Safari include Push Notifications on iOS? This SEEMS to
| say iOS 16.1 will, but I am not sure
|
| https://webkit.org/blog/13399/webkit-features-in-safari-16-1...
| Nextgrid wrote:
| Can't wait for all my non-technical friends to sign up for spam
| notifications. I moved them off Android for similar reasons.
| js2 wrote:
| Note: it's possible to install Ventura side-by-side with
| Monterey:
|
| https://eclecticlight.co/2022/10/04/how-to-keep-monterey-whe...
| rahen wrote:
| Very excited about the ability to run x86 VMs through Rosetta.
| This will make x86 virtualization a lot more straightforward on
| Apple Silicon (no more reliance on qemu).
| waz0wski wrote:
| Can Ventura run x86 VMs on M1/M2?
|
| I thought it was only able to run ARM VMs which can _utilize_
| rosetta to run x86 code?
|
| https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/run...
| dev_tty01 wrote:
| You ended up with bad information. You can not run x86 VMs
| through Rosetta. They do support Linux ARM VMs running x86
| Linux binaries within the VM.
| bredren wrote:
| Wow, clamshell to external monitor support is vastly improved. I
| couldn't believe it when it happened the first time.
|
| I have a MBA M2 going USB-C -> HDMI on a 4k Dell monitor. You can
| open and close the laptop and it switches the external from
| secondary to primary and back almost instantaneously.
|
| I'd describe this as a major improvement over every prior MacOS.
| abalaji wrote:
| Wow! This alone is enough to convince me to upgrade.
| DavideNL wrote:
| I wonder if it's also possible to just leave the Macbook
| "opened", but disable only the Macbooks display and not the
| external display (so you'd get the same result as
| clamshell)...?
| antipaul wrote:
| I think this is an Apple Silicon feature.
|
| Did this _not_ work on the same M2 laptop while on Monterey?
|
| (I've had this on Monterey from the beginning on M1 MacBook
| Pro)
| vbezhenar wrote:
| I own M1 MBP16. While closed laptop technically works... One
| nasty bug makes it unusable. I can't reliably switch keyboard
| layouts using globe button. This bug is absolutely weird and
| ridiculous and I have no idea how it's even possible. When
| laptop is opened, I press globe button and my keyboard layout
| is switched. Actually it does not work 100% reliably, but
| it's OK. With laptop closed it works like 20% of time.
|
| Have no idea about ventura, will not update before first
| patch, I guess.
| YmiYugy wrote:
| It's macOS alright. The addition of a weather app is great.
| Otherwise I feel like macOS has mostly regressed since the
| redesign with Big Sur. I still miss the old design and
| performance has steadily declined with each version. Stage
| manager feels like this years version of "What if instead
| implementing window snapping we make up a new clunky way to
| disimprove multitasking.
| jensenbox wrote:
| I cannot help but see a visual of Jim Carrey saying "Alrighty
| then" every time I read the name.
| sbdaman wrote:
| "We've been putting the same 720p webcam in our laptops for 10
| years so just go ahead and use your phone instead"
| barkingcat wrote:
| you mean 720p.
| sbdaman wrote:
| Yes. Oops.
| behnamoh wrote:
| "Stay tuned for our $100 phone holder for Macs. It has never
| been done before."
| rubyist5eva wrote:
| I can use my iphone as a webcam now? This is great, I can just
| get rid of my actual webcam which is hot garbage anyway.
| jacobsenscott wrote:
| Now that we are all on video calls all day, the lower rez the
| laptop camera the better. Nobody uses their laptop camera for
| anything else.
| dev_tty01 wrote:
| This! Why does everyone think that other people in the
| meeting need to see them in high rez? The lower rez also uses
| less network bandwidth.
| duffyjp wrote:
| This is actually the feature I upgraded for this morning. I
| always use a USB webcam on a stand in front of my 43" display.
| The laptop positioned usefully would block a huge part of my
| view. Now one less cable cluttering my desk and much higher
| quality (it's night and day honestly vs the Logitech I was
| using).
| jedberg wrote:
| "We could increase the BOM cost putting a bigger camera in but
| the thickness of the laptop lid is so thin it would never be as
| good as the phone you most likely already own, so we made it
| easer for you to use that".
|
| It's all a matter of perspective. :) I love the ability to use
| my phone as a webcam.
| mikestew wrote:
| That doesn't explain why the $3K 27" iMac on my desk has a
| 720p camera. Big expensive Mac, with a camera off an off-
| brand Windows laptop.
| howinteresting wrote:
| Well it only works with Apple phones so
| jedberg wrote:
| I suspect the Venn diagram of people who use a MacBook and
| people who use Android has a very small overlap in the
| circles.
| JadeNB wrote:
| > I suspect the Venn diagram of people who use a MacBook
| and people who use Android has a very small overlap in
| the circles.
|
| Why? I'm in the overlap, and I don't think I'm that
| unusual.
| howinteresting wrote:
| Almost every Mac user I know is in that category.
| Generally they use a company-issued Mac for work and have
| a personal Android phone.
| kennend3 wrote:
| Perspective really is everything.
|
| I think that most would be surprised to see a company selling
| a laptop for $1700 (CAD) in 2022 with a 720 webcam
|
| https://www.apple.com/ca/macbook-pro/
|
| Doing this, then advising you can use your phone's camera
| seems like an ugly hack.
|
| It is also really awkward to be on a conf call using your
| phone as a webcam, then needing your phone because something
| important has come up.
| cantSpellSober wrote:
| It's nice to have the _option_ of buying and using a single
| brand of smartphone to use as your laptop 's webcam; but I'd
| prefer to use the laptop's webcam as the laptop's webcam, or
| use _my_ phone as a webcam. It 's all a matter of
| perspective. :)
| buu700 wrote:
| And yet they insist on putting a notch on all new MacBooks.
| Seems like adding a webcam-free option and expanding
| Continuity Camera support to Android would be a pretty easy
| win.
| Hamuko wrote:
| lolno, Apple laptops definitely did not have 1080p webcams 10
| years ago.
| sbdaman wrote:
| Hah, meant 720p.
| gjvc wrote:
| Snow Leopard was the peak
| doodpants wrote:
| And Mavericks was the peak of GUI look-and-feel, before they
| went with the all-flat look.
| AA-BA-94-2A-56 wrote:
| The flat look is good, but the regression in UX is not
| nsxwolf wrote:
| I ended up skipping Monterey on my 2013 Mac Pro entirely because
| it wouldn't let me install it because my original SSD broke and I
| replaced it with a non-Apple SSD. Starting with Monterey, that's
| not cool anymore because reasons.
|
| Supposedly if you install the original SSD it will update some
| firmware somewhere and you'll be able to use the 3rd party SSD
| after that. But, like I said, mine's broken. You can supposedly
| also buy a used genuine SSD off eBay, but that seems a slightly
| expensive way to do a free OS upgrade.
|
| Interesting story, Apple will not sell you a replacement or
| upgrade SSD for your 2013 Mac Pro - not for any price. They're
| only available for warranty replacements, and these computers
| haven't been under warranty for a long time.
|
| Another thing I assume is still not fixed: The ability to
| permanently disable VRR for monitors that don't behave well with
| Apple's VRR implementation. That one's been annoying me with
| Monterey on my work laptop. Every time the computer sleeps, it
| turns VRR back on, and my screen blinks and flickers away until I
| manually turn it off again.
| rubiquity wrote:
| Apple's playbook is to use hardware support as a reason to drop
| software support to encourage (nudge?) customers to buy more
| hardware. Recently it has been dropping new macOS versions for
| non-metal GPUs and now (Monterey) not supporting SSDs without
| T2/Secure Enclave, and there are other examples before those.
| You get bit by this and decide if you want to stay on that
| train or get off. I was one-and-done with that ecosystem and my
| Late 2013 MacBook Pro.
|
| Also you can still update that Mac Pro of yours to Monterey if
| you use the Open Core bootloader. It just requires going off
| the beaten path.
| CharlesW wrote:
| > _Apple 's playbook is to use hardware support as a reason
| to drop software support to encourage (nudge?) customers to
| buy more hardware._
|
| I mean, Apple was making new versions of macOS that supported
| the 2013 Mac Pro until literally today. If that's their
| playbook, they're not doing great.
| rubiquity wrote:
| That's just the 2013 Mac Pro. I cited two other examples
| that apply to several other models and years.
| billti wrote:
| I just bought a new 14" M1 MacBook Pro because they stopped
| doing OS updates for my 2014 Intel MacBook Pro. Kinda sad,
| as the 2014 MacBook Pro is still, STILL - in 2022!, one of
| the best laptops I've had (including for running Windows
| via Bootcamp). Being it had no trade-in value, I'll keep
| using it as a test machine for Intel builds of my app.
|
| But yeah, the new Apple Silicon laptops are incredible, and
| I'm happy with the new purchase. If I get 8 years out of
| this one too, I'll be more than happy. To me, that's a
| reasonable length of time to support OSes on old hardware.
| DavideNL wrote:
| Fyi, perhaps this is useful to you:
| https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/
| mrpippy wrote:
| That problem has been solved, Ventura doesn't run on the 2013
| Mac Pro :P
| ajkjk wrote:
| What's the best place to read technical details about new Mac
| releases? This has a bit, as do other sites like
| https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/macos-13/, but I wonder if
| there's something with a more exhaustive list -- something that
| reads like actual "patch notes".
| crummy wrote:
| The answer is undoubtedly
| https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/macos-13-ventura-the...
| cstuder wrote:
| The Ars Technica reviews are always pretty thorough:
| https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/macos-13-ventura-the...
| anigbrowl wrote:
| What is with that extended scrolling thing though. I want to
| look at the scrollbar to know how long a document (including
| a web page) is, not have it keep changing as I move farther
| into it.
|
| 'Oh people don't like looking at long documents' - then
| they're not your target customers and you should just ignore
| them and stop listening to the ad sales person who is paid by
| commission.
| duffyjp wrote:
| Probably lazy loading the images/content blocks when you
| get near to save bandwidth but not having same-sized
| placeholders. I see that a lot.
| anigbrowl wrote:
| That's a better guess than mine. I'm surprised that a
| high quality site like AT would accept such a low quality
| user experience.
| agumonkey wrote:
| some things never change :)
| kccqzy wrote:
| They stopped being thorough after John Siracusa stopped
| writing them.
|
| Seriously, back in the days John Siracusa would dive into
| internal details. For example in 10.7 Lion (in 2011) Apple
| introduced full disk encryption. John didn't just stop at the
| usual description of the functionality, screenshots and
| performance metrics. He described Apple's then-new logical
| volume manager implementation to get this feature to work. He
| then speculated on Apple's future plans for the technology
| (pooled storage aka a single logical volume group spanning
| multiple physical drives) which became the reality in 2012
| with Fusion Drive. This is the kind of review I wanted to
| read.
| concinds wrote:
| The Ars Technica review is thorough, and acts as a good set of
| "release notes", but it's published upon release, and obviously
| doesn't cover the stuff that devs and users discover throughout
| the following year.
|
| I recommend the excellent EclecticLight blog (by H. Oakley). He
| doesn't try to do a comprehensive overview (you have Ars for
| that), but has done many technical deep-dives covering changes
| that haven't been talked about anywhere else, and I can't
| praise him enough for that.
|
| Michael Tsai also has a great blog (mjtsai.com/blog/) that
| functions as a news agregator for Apple stories and commentary,
| and though his blog's not dedicated to only macOS, you'll find
| regular stories on technical details there.
| lelandfe wrote:
| Six Colors is also good:
| https://sixcolors.com/post/2022/10/macos-ventura-review-a-wo...
|
| (I miss John Siracusa's reviews for ArsTechnica)
| jerrygoyal wrote:
| how a better windows management looks like:
|
| - show all windows of an app when switching windows (cmd+tab).
| currently only one window from each app is shown.
|
| - transition period when switching windows via three fingers
| gesture is too long. make it snappier.
| lwouis wrote:
| You may like https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/
| jron wrote:
| Lockdown mode looks very usable despite the messaging that it is
| "designed for the very few individuals." Users can even exclude
| applications from Lockdown mode.
|
| When Lockdown Mode is enabled, some apps and features will
| function differently, including:
|
| Messages - Most message attachment types are blocked, other than
| certain images, video, and audio. Some features, such as links
| and link previews, are unavailable.
|
| Web browsing - Certain complex web technologies are blocked,
| which might cause some websites to load more slowly or not
| operate correctly. In addition, web fonts might not be displayed,
| and images might be replaced with a missing image icon.
|
| FaceTime - Incoming FaceTime calls are blocked unless you have
| previously called that person or contact.
|
| Apple Services - Incoming invitations for Apple Services, such as
| invitations to manage a home in the Home app, are blocked unless
| you have previously invited that person.
|
| Shared albums - Shared albums are removed from the Photos app,
| and new Shared Album invitations are blocked. You can still view
| these shared albums on other devices that don't have Lockdown
| Mode enabled.
|
| USB accessories - To connect your device to a USB accessory or
| another computer, the device needs to be unlocked. Configuration
| profiles - Configuration profiles can't be installed, and the
| device can't be enrolled in Mobile Device Management or device
| supervision while in Lockdown Mode.
|
| Phone calls and plain text messages continue to work while
| Lockdown Mode is enabled. Emergency features, such as SOS
| emergency calls, are not affected.
|
| https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212650
| alwillis wrote:
| _Lockdown mode looks very usable despite the messaging that it
| is "designed for the very few individuals."_
|
| Apple said at the rollout that relatively few people _should_
| need this, which is likely correct. The vast majority of people
| don't have a state-level attacker going after them.
|
| Also it makes sense that the UI/UX is accessible; many of the
| people who need this aren't necessarily tech experts. And even
| if you are a tech expert, you don't want a complex UI when
| you're under attack.
| [deleted]
| _jal wrote:
| Yep, much like on the phone, Lockdown is really attractive to
| me to just run all the time.
|
| - I never want executable content sent to me via messages.
|
| - I already block web fonts everywhere I can. I do want to know
| what other "complex web technologies" are blocked.
|
| - I don't care about Facetime.
|
| - I don't use Apple services or Icloud.
|
| - Ignoring USB when locked should be a default.
| sjtgraham wrote:
| > I do want to know what other "complex web technologies" are
| blocked.
|
| JIT compilation, WASM, WebGL, Speech Recognition API, and the
| Web Audio API
| _jal wrote:
| Thanks. Yep, still works for me.
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| > Ignoring USB when locked should be a default.
|
| And if you plug your laptop into a docking station while the
| lid is closed...?
| [deleted]
| diimdeep wrote:
| Could anyone please share emoji file, do not want to get 12gb
| only for this :D `/System/Library/Fonts/Apple Color Emoji.ttc`
|
| nvm, https://0x0.st/oxdZ.ttc
|
| Apple Color Emoji
|
| Version 18.0d4e1
|
| Glyph count 3 574
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(page generated 2022-10-24 23:01 UTC)