[HN Gopher] New motorcycle lighting design could save lives
___________________________________________________________________
New motorcycle lighting design could save lives
Author : ohjeez
Score : 87 points
Date : 2022-10-20 17:40 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (news.rice.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (news.rice.edu)
| dmckeon wrote:
| I believe that the apparent benefits to traffic safety from
| various lighting schemes share an underlying reason: producing
| uncertainty in other drivers, and thus more delay or caution
| before maneuvering. Daytime headlights for motorcycles (standard
| in the US since the 1970s, or so), daytime running lights
| (standard in Canada, now common in the US), helmet-mounted
| headlamps for bicyclists - all tend to produce a reaction of
| "Wait, what is that?" in drivers.
| dustyleary wrote:
| That was the same impression I got when I saw the light
| patterns pictured in the article. I had to slow down a second
| to "figure out" what I was looking at.
|
| The study claims that "improved lighting could result in other
| motorists being able to see motorcycles up to 0.8 seconds
| sooner."
|
| Even this might be related to the fact that you are seeing
| something new and strange. If something "surprising" happens
| when I'm driving, my attention is instantly snapped to it, and
| my foot is at least on the brake pedal, if not actively
| braking.
|
| With that in mind, I wonder if the benefit from a new lighting
| design might fade over time as the novelty wore off.
| gojomo wrote:
| At least some of the benefit being an expiring 'novelty
| effect' seems plausible.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novelty_effect
|
| Maybe _randomization_ of vehicle lighting schemes, across
| vehicles and time-periods, would provide the most-enduring
| improvements.
| gojomo wrote:
| Indeed - similar to how narrower streets & traffic circles can
| reduce accidents by demanding more driver attention.
|
| Perhaps, even next-generation lighting could be dynamic,
| brightening or otherwise modulating when on-vehicle sensors
| detect other vehicles nearing. (That could be either be nearer
| generally, or when sensors detect heightening risk.)
| mypalmike wrote:
| Yes, this is also why it makes sense to ride with a bit of side
| to side motion within the lane. Car drivers see it as somewhat
| erratic and start to pay attention. They often think you're
| being showy or maybe even drunk, but they notice, and that is
| what matters.
| enriquec wrote:
| Yea, I remember in some intro engineering course at brown they
| went over a study that over time, mandating more/new lighting
| eventually had a null or opposite effect - because drivers get
| used to them. Meanwhile energy, light pollution, and driver
| fatigue goes up. They don't seem to address this at all.
| tuxone wrote:
| Cyclist, motorist, biker and pedestrian here. I'm not sure what
| kind of motorcycle you have at your locale, here the mandatory
| running lights are alone quite visible. When I go by bike I have
| a Garmin Varia (sorry for the ad) which is quite powerful and
| also start blinking crazily when something arrives from behind.
|
| We live in a world that has accepted road casualties. What to
| reduce them? Make people accountable for that, eg. lifetime
| driving license revocation.
|
| I can't believe we are talking about going around like a
| Christmas tree to increase survival probability. Are people
| driving? Then let's make sure they are looking at where they are
| going.
|
| Next time what? Will you mandate LEDs fitted jackets to
| pedestrians?
| ahoy wrote:
| Most road safety problems boil down to too many cars. The US &
| Canada aren't interested in changing that though. In the US we
| have 40k road deaths/year baked into the culture.
|
| It's really jarring, as someone who doesn't own a car.
| sgt wrote:
| And more powerful indicators. They should burn your eyes!
| tuxone wrote:
| I am quite happy with the yellow indicators. I had the
| opportunity to drive in the US and found quite awkward those
| integrated red indicators (compared to other
| restrictive/protective laws like edible toys).
| janef0421 wrote:
| This just strikes me as another attempt to deflect blame from the
| car-dependent infrastructure and on to motorcyclists. I think the
| main reason for these collisions is that the average car driver
| is inattentive, for two main reasons;
|
| - The sealed environment of a car produces a sense of
| disconnection from the outside world, both by protecting the
| driver and depriving their senses.
|
| - The way most western transport systems are designed more or
| less obligates people to drive for most trips, which most people
| do not actual want to do and find stressful. This results in a
| mental disengagement as a coping mechanism.
| gedy wrote:
| Honestly if all riders rode like other cars do there would be
| less of an issue. Motorcycles have a disadvantage in visibility
| for sure, but that coupled with many riders riding/accelerating
| much faster than cars and weaving through traffic with much
| closer tolerances is a bad mix.
|
| If you see cars driving like many motorcyclists do, most people
| are extremely annoyed.
| LAC-Tech wrote:
| It's very rare for me to see a heavy motorcycle on the road and
| them not be driving recklessly - speeding, following too
| closely, or even overtaking between two vehicles travelling in
| opposite directions.
|
| I'm not saying car drivers never do this. I'm saying almost
| every time I encounter a motorcyclist they're driving
| dangerously. To the point where if I see one who doesn't
| tailgate me, I'm surprised.
| janef0421 wrote:
| What do you mean by "heavy motorcycle"? Where are you
| encountering these motorcycles?
| LAC-Tech wrote:
| I mean larger displacement motorcycles for the open road.
| As opposed to smaller displacement motorcycles for
| commuting.
|
| I encounter them on the road outside my house, which
| attracts a lot of them on sunny days and weekends.
| janef0421 wrote:
| That is a very biased sample. Also, my comment was
| primarily about incidents where another vehicle,
| typically a car, collides with a motorcycle due to the
| driver failing to notice the motorcycle. I don't think
| the factors you're describing here are major drivers of
| these kinds of collisions.
| aussiesnack wrote:
| Well-known roads (often 'twisties') attract riders who
| want to hoon around. In countries with lax licensing
| standards, there can be hundreds of testorerone-addled
| teens riding motorcycles they have no idea how to handle,
| and (like so many young males) little concern for anyone
| outside their circle. Not remotely representative of
| motorcyclists as a whole (in fact it's an ageing
| demographic).
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| Add being on the phone and fidgeting with the car touchscreen
| as distractions that cause accidents. There's an arms race
| going on where drivers buy bigger and bigger cars(SUVs) to get
| additional perceived safety from everyone else.
| trgn wrote:
| This is sadly getting downvoted out of fear and callousness.
| Drivers cannot, will not, refuse to the very core of their
| being, accept that they are in control of a multi-ton metal
| battering ram, which is orders of magnitude more deadly and
| destructive than a motorcycle.
|
| Rather than accept that with claiming this control comes on
| enormous responsibility, drivers will rather point blame
| anywhere else.
|
| The only solution to the problem of drivers killing and maiming
| people, is having an environment where there is less need for
| driving, or an environment (physical and judicial) that
| enforces slow and safe driving.
| dangus wrote:
| I'm sure it could but it would be a band-aid.
|
| Want to save lives? High speed motorcycling should simply be
| illegal.
|
| Low speed two wheel transportation should be limited to 25mph of
| power assistance and primarily take place in physically separated
| infrastructure (e.g. bike lanes in The Netherlands).
|
| Any widespread mass usage of motorcycles and motor scooters (e.g.
| Vietnam) is a failure in city planning. Almost everyone on a
| scooter in a congested street should be on a train, bus rapid
| transit, or subway instead.
| trgn wrote:
| > Want to save lives? High speed motorcycling should simply be
| illegal.
|
| Just make that; high speed _cars_ should simply be illegal. It
| is drivers killing motorcyclists, not motorcyclists killing
| drivers. Because cars are both heavy and fast, they are deadly
| by their very nature. With more power comes more
| responsibility. For drivers, this responsibility must translate
| to slowing down.
| JoeAltmaier wrote:
| Seems like half the science. How much safer does it make it, to
| be seen half a second quicker?
| nix23 wrote:
| Important if you have to deliver pizza, on the other hand who
| cares...if there are no swimming-pools.
| VTimofeenko wrote:
| It's not half a second in the context of minute-long trip, but
| rather in the context of driver reaction time which is (IIRC)
| around a couple of seconds. So, it's substantial.
| ergonaught wrote:
| The problem is that a whole lot of people are driving who
| shouldn't be (distracted or otherwise), along with wide swathes
| of "culture" having decided that the road belongs to them and
| their needs only instead of to everyone on the road. Every little
| bit helps, I guess, but making us more visible isn't really the
| issue. Just observe how people around you drive when you aren't
| operating a motorcycle.
| conductr wrote:
| This may differ by locale, but this is (or, can be) an
| extension of motorcycles being relatively rare. In my normal
| driving, I see about 3 a week and usually not even having to
| negotiate the road with them. They're just passing by or
| present in some other lane doing some other thing that requires
| little action from me. From that perspective, it's unusual/rare
| that I find myself negotiating a lane change around a
| motorcycle or turning in front of. Again, further expand that
| to when I do find myself in a situation where it's dark and I'm
| turning and I see a light - it's usually my 3rd/4th/5th thought
| of "what is that?" before I realize it; even when completely
| undistracted. I usually act defensively and pause to give my
| brain a moment to catch up rather than pulling out in front of
| something I haven't recognized yet but this level of attention
| and behavior is very easy to lapse even by the best intentioned
| drivers. It's not a great approach to expect everyone else to
| be a perfect driver at all times.
| aussiesnack wrote:
| There are differences in awareness between drivers though.
| When I drive a car, I (quite literally) ask myself whether
| there's a motorcyclist around at every junction or right turn
| (in a LH drive country) I come to. My conditions are pretty
| unusual - I'm primarily a motorcyclist and rarely drive (to
| the point where I find myself nodding involuntarily at riders
| even when I'm driving). I'm not sanguine about raising
| people's average level of awareness - of motoryclists, or
| anything else! So I agree you wouldn't choose it as a road
| safety strategy. I'd still keep antenna up for anything that
| might amplify awareness though.
| schlauerfox wrote:
| Is this like when they planned to have a brake light that flashed
| faster the harder you braked, but they didn't account for the
| Hawthorne Effect and people just noticed more lights cause they
| were new so they just added a third tail light for cheap?
| thot_experiment wrote:
| I feel like a lot of people who ride motorcycles care more about
| headlight aesthetics than headlight safety (myself included). I
| don't really see "other people react to my presence" as a
| particularly good strategy for staying alive on a motorcycle. The
| best way to not die is to assume everyone is doing their best to
| kill you in a stupid way all of the time. TBQH I've had more
| close calls when people saw me and reacted in an unpredictable
| way than because someone didn't see me, but that's just my
| anecdata. (and most of my memorable close calls were on a pedal
| bike, so only sorta related, but still feels applicable)
|
| I'm not saying that having better headlights doesn't matter, I
| just don't think it matters a lot compared to all the other risks
| involved in riding a motorcycle. I'd be surprised if the set of
| "accidents that would have been prevented if someone was able to
| detect you 1 second earlier from head on" was particularly big.
| juve1996 wrote:
| Being more visible will always help but you still have to
| ATGATT and drive defensively.
| BareNakedCoder wrote:
| For the non-riders, ATGATT means "All The Gear, All The
| Time". I wince whenever I see some young kid and his
| girlfriend riding with t-shirt, short pants, and sandals.
| Human erasers on donor cycles :(
| frontiersummit wrote:
| People choose their vehicles for both functional purposes and
| sociocultural purposes. In somewhere like Manilla, a motorcycle
| has net positive functional utility since it is cheap, can park
| easily, and cut through traffic. In somewhere like Houston
| (where the study was authored), a motorcycle has net negative
| functional utility, given the humidity, rain, ample parking,
| and lack of lane splitting. That means riding is done for
| sociocultural purposes: to signal who you are by how you move
| about. For someone who is riding mainly for this reason, will
| they adopt a new light pattern, especially if it means adding a
| lamp to their head?
| Jcampuzano2 wrote:
| I'm a rider myself, I rarely have close calls and I chop it up
| to basically the same anecdotal data. But at least for the US
| where I live and the standards for getting a license seem to be
| much worse than many other parts of the world I've
| visited/heard of, I'd wager a decent part of it is simply rider
| skill.
|
| I know way too many riders who never practice, can barely pull
| a U-turn from a stop, don't know how to use their front brake
| effectively, and vastly overestimate their abilities. And then
| if a car even dares to accidentally not see them because they
| sat in their blind spot they flip a shit. I know riders who are
| very good, but unfortunately in the place I live I know many
| many more who are just not very good and ride very unaware of
| everything around them. And unlike driving a car, there is a
| different skill floor/ceiling to be considered competent.
| sgt wrote:
| Yes! Rider education and constantly practicing is key. It
| also helps you enjoy motorcycling more too.
| aussiesnack wrote:
| > Rider education and constantly practicing is key. It also
| helps you enjoy motorcycling more too.
|
| I don't think many non-motorcyclists get this aspect of
| riding, ie. that the activity itself is one to be honed and
| reflected on, and that treating it this way makes the mere
| act of transporting yourself from one place to another
| (which is essentially dead time for many car drivers) a
| keen and vital part of life.
| devmunchies wrote:
| > _a lot of people who ride motorcycles care more about [...]
| aesthetics than [...] safety_
|
| true, I ride with a traffic vest[1] on (which hides my
| expensive leather jacket!) and I'm probably deducted 40% in
| coolness points, but i figure I'm able to compound the little
| coolness points I get over a longer period. I wouldn't have
| done it in my 20s but now I am in my 30s and have kids so
| safety is more important.
|
| I've definitely noticed more people rotate their head to look
| at me since I've started wearing it.
|
| [1]: https://reesdistributors.com/wp-
| content/uploads/2015/09/V102...
| kleiba wrote:
| Also, motorcyclists obeying the speed limit could save lives.
| jalgos_eminator wrote:
| At least with motorcyclists its their own lives, not others
| like when car drivers speed excessively.
| bitwidget wrote:
| aussiesnack wrote:
| Probably true, but it's not going to happen without a huge
| amount of additional surveillance. I'm a daily rider and in all
| honesty I ignore speed limits when I'm away from habitation.
| Nothing crazy, but definitely illegal. For the most part I'm
| pretty responsible, and keep to well within limits around where
| people live. But there's no denying that speed is part of the
| appeal - I whizz past all cars (because I prefer to be away
| from them), zip around bendy country roads (because it's fun).
| I don't even have a fast bike, and I find it hard to stay
| within limits. I'm in my 50's and have only had one accident -
| an off-road mud-slip in the middle of nowhere resulting in a
| broken ankle .. and a long walk.
| kleiba wrote:
| Not true.
| Syonyk wrote:
| ape4 wrote:
| Just anecdotally, it seems the motorcycle's little brother the
| escooter is being driven more now. They have tiny front lights.
| whartung wrote:
| Tangential to this is that there has been some discussion that
| the recent Tesla/motorcycle fatalities are related to the fact
| the the struck motorcycles happened to be cruiser style with twin
| rear lights.
|
| The Tesla system, which is optical only, saw the two lights as a
| far away car rather than a close up motorcycle.
| Syonyk wrote:
| I can't stand those. Even riding a motorcycle, they're a
| confusing and hard to make sense of rear light layout. Put a
| central light on the bike, preferably LED, and ideally that
| strobes a few times when you hit the brakes. It makes a very
| real difference in traffic - I did that, at separate times, to
| some different bikes, and was able to observe the difference.
| It mostly solved tailgaters. From annoyance or what, I don't
| care, but a bright, "flashes several times when the brakes are
| applied" tail light improves much on a motorcycle.
|
| Not the worst thing I've seen, though. I came up behind one
| motorcycle at night, slammed cruiser style, that only had a dim
| red row of LEDs on the license plate holder, which was bolted
| to the rear wheel axle. I was _on a motorcycle_ and couldn 't
| tell what it was in front of me until I was probably 50'
| behind. Rider and passenger in flat black, of course.
|
| But Harley's been shipping those dumb twin light rear
| configurations for a decade now. They're not novel, and it's
| just one more example in "Self driving car AIs don't understand
| the world and fail in entirely non-human ways."
| MerelyMortal wrote:
| I'm afraid the flashing brake light will fall victim to
| tragedy of the commons. It's a great idea, but when everyone
| has it, it just becomes a sea of blinking lights and harder
| to differentiate. I already hate being behind one vehicle
| that has it, because it's distracting and I'm interpreting
| the first time it dims as they're letting _off_ the brake. It
| 's also probably illegal if the law says brake light must be
| illuminated when the brake pedal is pressed.
| Jcampuzano2 wrote:
| I simply refuse to consider riding a Harley because they so
| obviously don't give a shit about rider safety and are behind
| on every piece of tech you could imagine that is standard
| with most other manufacturers. Sorry, I don't give a shit
| about the "being a badass" hog lifestyle and this contributes
| to why they're a dying brand.
| Syonyk wrote:
| > _...and this contributes to why they 're a dying brand._
|
| I can't argue with you about the bikes, I've no interest in
| one either.
|
| But [citation needed] on "dying brand." They're still the
| number one seller in the US and seem to be doing just fine.
| aussiesnack wrote:
| They're really big in Australia, despite their expense
| and IMO objective inferiority to many other bikes. It's a
| combination of image and I think a certain cultural
| nostalgia, mostly among men in their 50s and above. I do
| kind of understand it as a reaction to the physical and
| cultural blandness and mediocrity of the very suburban
| Australia most of these guys inhabit.
| samatman wrote:
| The problem, to bolster a sibling comment, is that humans are
| also optical only, and can succumb to the same optical
| illusion.
|
| Safety engineering shouldn't be left to product designers, and
| that problem is quite a bit more acute with motorcycles than
| autos.
| alonmower wrote:
| As the article points out single headlights are extremely hard to
| gauge the speed/distance of at night. I believe turning in front
| of a motorcycle having misjudged its distance/speed is one of the
| leading causes of deadly accidents, so improvements to lighting
| that help solve this would be huge.
| MattSayar wrote:
| I have a single headlight on my motorcycle. I'm aware that
| adding more headlights will make me more visible at night, but
| adding two additional headlights will cost me $500 in parts
| alone. That's 1/12 the entire cost of what I paid for my bike.
|
| I just don't ride at night.
| Syonyk wrote:
| There is _no way_ that it should cost you $500 to add two
| additional LED headlights off the forks. Any random
| motorcycle parts store should have stuff that works fine,
| just wire it into your headlight circuit - there 's usually a
| spare amp or so there.
| dharmab wrote:
| I've tried they cheap lights and they suck. Poor beam
| patterns and have a habit of failing at inopportune times.
| (Ever had to race the sunset with a failed light?)
|
| $500 is about in line for a reputable kit that can hold up
| to the elements.
| Jcampuzano2 wrote:
| Same.
|
| Mentioned in another comment but I rode at night when I was
| younger, but where I live there's just way too many
| drunk/aggressive drivers which is much worse at night,
| regardless of lighting situation. So I just don't ride at
| night.
| juve1996 wrote:
| Yep, no more riding at night for me either. It's too
| dangerous. As I've aged I've noticed how much harder it is
| for ME to see driving in a car at night. And now I'm
| CONSTANTLY blinded by these LED nuclear bomb headlights these
| huge ass trucks have now. It just sucks.
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| Dual lights also present the problem that they can be
| misinterpreted as a car further away.
| emptybits wrote:
| How would such a misinterpretation be an actual problem? Less
| safe?
| dharmab wrote:
| It may be a contributing factor to recent cases where Tesla
| Autopilot rear ended motorcycles at night. Thus video has a
| visualization: https://youtu.be/yRdzIs4FJJg
|
| One of these crashes was right by my home, where I rode to
| work nearly every day prepandemic.
| randcraw wrote:
| Yes, left turning cars are my primary fear as a rider. Of
| course the problem arises during the day too, not just at
| night.
|
| It'd be nice if the OP's research had compared alternative
| forms of lighting to 'surprise' the oncoming driver, like
| flickering lights. This works well to draw attention both day
| and night (using less flicker). Given the continuing problem of
| drivers not seeing bikes, it's a shame it hasn't been adopted
| as the new norm for all bikes (and bicycle lights) -- both
| front and rear.
| vzaliva wrote:
| This is known in the motorcycle community for decades. There is
| even a "get horizontal" mantra. The idea is that the wider you
| look (via light placement), the more likely drivers will notice
| you. One of the reasons is that the human brain perceives smaller
| (narrower) objects as less dangerous and is more likely to ignore
| them. But it is good to see research backing this up.
| pgt wrote:
| "Night driving is especially dangerous, accounting for nearly
| half of all fatal crashes."
|
| Nearly half?
| 23skidoo wrote:
| It reads funny, but fewer people drive at night and still make
| up about half of accidents.
| dzhiurgis wrote:
| Yeah but it doesn't say the cause is biker visibility. I'd
| guess bikers themselves are far more likely to miss some
| pothole (or other reason) at night time and fataly crash.
| bismuthcrystal wrote:
| So why not write something like "accidents happen at a higher
| rate a night"?
| bsimpson wrote:
| The six light configuration they're recommending is pattern E
| here:
|
| https://i.imgur.com/hpOt1ac.png
| toss1 wrote:
| Thanks - it was definitely hard to visualize with only the
| (oddly) un-illustrated article.
|
| Without going all the way to version "E", I've noticed that a
| setup not pictured, with two full-sized headlights side-by-side
| in the normal just-under-the-handlebars location (round or
| rectangular didn't matter) instantly made it far easier to
| identify the motorcycle and judge distances. The single
| headlight just looks too much like a car with one dead
| headlight (especially since standard riding technique is to not
| ride in the center of the lane), and it takes seconds to figure
| out if I'm looking at a bike or a car possibly halfway into my
| lane. Two headlights it's instant, and also upgrades it to a 2D
| object in a black field, making 3D judgements much easier, as
| the spacing between them widens on approach, etc..
|
| I think the best setup would be a dual-headlight setup in the
| illustrated "E" setup.
| Wagthesam wrote:
| I add aux lights similar to the two bottom configuration. This
| creates a triangle with the headlight and makes me more
| visible.
|
| The two lights to the side is excessive because it can confuse
| drivers with the turn signal lights.
|
| I would not attach any lights to the helmet. Helmets are
| ideally glancing off impacts and gopro or light add ons can
| cause catastrophic failure for the helmet if its hit during
| impact. See Schumacher's ski accident
| minitoar wrote:
| Agreed about not modifying the helmet but I could imagine a
| helmet with such a thing built in.
| gojomo wrote:
| Thanks! So the top light is on some big new 'eyestalk' above
| the handlebars?
|
| (I'm baffled how the Rice PR team could put this out without
| _any_ diagram /photo/rendering of the full proposed six-light-
| configuration, which could give the story 10x more interest &
| viral-forwarding legs, as well as improve the chances of its
| eventual life-saving adoption.)
| zucked wrote:
| Seriously! As a motorcyclist (and cyclist) with a keen
| interest in not dying, I'm always looking for additional ways
| to be seen and predictable. This image should have been in
| the blog article, full stop. How is it _so_ buried?
| mistrial9 wrote:
| light is great but first on the list is an aftermarket horn
| .. LOUD
| guenthert wrote:
| I can count on the fingers of one hand the times I used
| the horn on any of my motorcycles in two decades of
| riding (>100kmi, various situations, not much commute,
| less in the dark). In dangerous situation where honking
| might have helped, I typically was busy to either break
| or steer out of harms way. Aside that horns on m/c tend
| to be meek. They seem to be installed only because some
| law requires them.
| bsimpson wrote:
| I was about to cruise through a yellow light today when a
| pickup truck in the center of a one way street abruptly
| decided to make a left turn across my path. (I was in the
| far left lane.) I slammed on my brakes and laid on my
| horn.
|
| I saw his face in his mirror. As he realized the noise he
| was hearing was my underpowered Vespa horn protesting the
| needless near-calamity, a smirk of victory beamed across
| his face.
|
| Guy nearly took me out today, and all I could do was
| trust my ABS brakes and give him Roadrunner's angriest
| "meep meep."
| mattficke wrote:
| The top light is a helmet-mounted light. They mention this in
| the full paper but it's not clear from the abstract.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| I have one of these on my bicycle helmet.
|
| Works great for getting a driver's attention at a 4-way
| stop (the North American approach to right-of-way is
| deficient when everyone stops at the same time and is going
| straight).
|
| But a problematic tell when I see a head-turner walking on
| the sidewalk.
| nonrandomstring wrote:
| My take is that this is about parallax [1], although I
| haven't read the paper and so that's an assumption.
|
| Creatures with forward facing stereoscopic vision (like us)
| can judge the speed and distance of an object if we can
| determine its size and see something of the background. In
| the dark, some information is missing when we rely on
| attached lights.
|
| Most people know the approximate size of a car, and so with
| two lights its easier to guess the distance (and crucially
| speed as the distance between the lights seems to change).
|
| I've noticed it's harder to cross a road when bikes are
| approaching than cars, because if you're looking along the
| axis of travel then its hard to gauge their speed.
|
| Attaching more than one light to a bike allows us to judge
| the speed better. It seems that it's irrelevant whether the
| spacing is horizontal or vertical for our visual systems to
| make this judgement.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax
| bsimpson wrote:
| Motorcycles also suffer a depth perception problem in the
| daytime:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doSDfIo61r0
| gojomo wrote:
| This research, & further your comment, makes me wonder:
|
| Customized cars often project vanity mood lighting down
| towards the pavement. (I believe the legality of such
| nonstandard lighting varies across jurisdictions.)
|
| Perhaps motorcycles could be required to project a large
| light-splash _down_ , creating a more-visible 'light
| puddle' below them. It could even be something with very-
| sharp boundaries, & a standard oval size, so that the
| shape more strongly communicates distance/angle/speed.
| nonrandomstring wrote:
| That's really quite a good idea.
|
| I've seem bicycles in London projecting a green bike
| emblem into the road about 5 meters ahead using a laser.
|
| Two somewhat higher intensity spots on the road ahead
| would work as you indicate, At least in ideal road
| conditions.
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| I've never seen this in Australia. But my main gripe with
| motor/push bikes is a) People riding without any lights.
| b) People riding without sufficient lightly.
|
| Re. b)If a bike comes up really close to the rear of your
| vehicle, and the rider has no reflective gear, the light
| can be obscured by your own vehicle.
|
| Re. a) I'm not sure if this is some Aussie thing.
| Especially with push bikes. The number of people I've
| seen on the road at night with no lighting and zero
| reflective gear.
| amflare wrote:
| I suspect this would harm the motorcyclist's night-vision
| in a way that a car driver is not affected due to the
| light reflecting off the ground and right back at them.
| Whereas the body of the car protects the driver from the
| glare.
| dharmab wrote:
| Rider here. It'd be out of my field of view when riding.
| A friend had such a system on his Harley and the
| visibility was helpful.
| Corazoor wrote:
| I think I get why this might be the most effective: When I look
| at that, my mind completes it to a stick figure, like an
| optical illusion. At least to me, that one is immediately
| recognizable as a human.
| nomel wrote:
| The choice of the small top light seems odd. If the lower view
| of the bike is obstructed, like in a review/side mirror, you'll
| see a single small light, and think it's a far away something.
|
| I think adding some unique color(s) or flashing patterns would
| be much more identifiable. We're in the future now. We can
| craft lights that have colors outside of efficient slices of
| the blackbody spectrum, and make them do fancy things like
| "blink".
| minitoar wrote:
| Most (all?) vehicle codes don't permit other colors or
| flashing lights unless it's an emergency vehicle.
| pavon wrote:
| However, the law does often distinguish between
| modulating/pulsating lights and flashing ones. In the US,
| federal code 49 CFR Part 571.108 S7.9.4.1 explicitly allows
| modulating headlights on motorcycles[1]. From time to time
| I do see motorcycles whose headlights pulse. I hate it - it
| makes them easier to see but harder to gauge distance, and
| harder to focus on all the other traffic and pedestrians on
| and around the road.
|
| [1] https://www.gl1800riders.com/attachments/federal-law-
| motorcy...
| jlgaddis wrote:
| As a "normal" driver, the pulsating lights absolutely are
| annoying... and don't even get me started on those loud
| ass pipes!
|
| Now, as a motorcyclist who has been hit head-on more than
| once by drivers who swore "I didn't even see him!" --
| with the last crash leaving me with multiple broken bones
| and an inability to walk for several months -- you better
| believe I now have both a pulsating headlamp and a nice
| set of loud ass pipes (they're even called "Street
| Cannons")! on my bike.
|
| I've also lost a non-zero number of friends due to folks
| who swore they didn't see them.
|
| It's now been eight years since I've gotten hit... so I
| really am sorry if my headlight or pipes bother you as I
| pass by but, well, I have loved ones I'd like to see
| again so I hope you'll forgive me.
| tomger wrote:
| TIL Loud ass pipes for safety. I never understood how
| someone can rationalize themselves out of waking up a
| whole neighborhood at night for the sake of their own
| transportation.
| shaftway wrote:
| I doesn't actually have to be an either-or.
|
| I have pipes that are pretty loud above ~4000 RPM, but
| pretty quiet underneath that. When I'm in a residential
| neighborhood I keep the revs low and shift early (it's
| less aggressive anyway, which is what you want if a kid
| or a dog could dart out in front of you). On the freeway
| and when nobody is around me I also keep it under 4000
| RPM. But when I start feeling boxed in or I'm lane
| splitting I'll drop it down a gear to bump the volume of
| the pipes. You can see people recognize you're there, and
| that's the goal.
|
| But yeah, those guys who blare their exhaust on bikes or
| cars are a-holes.
| nomel wrote:
| Does that mean we're stuck with white, yellow/amber, and
| red for the next 1000 years of human civilization? Laws are
| made for the needs of the society, not the other way
| around. As others have noted, there are already exceptions
| for motorcycles.
| minitoar wrote:
| I obviously didn't say that. The exception for
| motorcycles is extremely limited -- it's more of a high
| frequency pulsing than a flashing.
| dt3ft wrote:
| The pattern E seems to resemble a human figure.
| snissn wrote:
| first thing i noticed too! would definitely wake me up a bit
| driving if i saw that!
| aussiesnack wrote:
| Just a comment on the "27 times more likely to die" figure. I
| haven't followed up the stats quoted, but the equivalent in my
| country (where I have read up in some detail) generally quoted is
| 40x. This drops dramatically when you cut out those who are
| unlicensed (bearing in mind this is illegal here), drunk, or in
| their 1st year of riding.
|
| Which is not to say that motorcycling isn't far more dangerous
| than driving a car. Bikes are my sole source of transport, on
| poor potholed rural windy roads in an area with truly terrible
| standards of driving, and I'm extremely aware of the dangers
| every day. But the figures are hugely elevated by a few factors,
| all of which are trivial to eliminate (for an individual, less so
| for society at large).
| notch656a wrote:
| Wouldn't surprise me if equipment failures of even well
| maintained vehicles can get you to 10x. Just random failure on
| a motorcycle and you go splat.
|
| I was riding during daytime, with many years experience, safely
| while going in a precisely straight line and not changing
| speed. Nice, 90% tires with rain tolerant tread and perfectly
| maintained vehicle. All drivers around me driving safely, me
| driving safely, rainy but good conditions. Hit a slippery patch
| on the road, that was somehow angled such that my rear tire
| slipped at an angle and I was almost instantaneously thrown
| high-side from the bike, at 70mph from an interstate.
|
| Full body suit, helmet, gloves. I walked away without even a
| scratch (I still can't believe how). But almost died; only
| survived by the fact I was thrown towards the curb instead of
| towards the fast lane of traffic.
|
| I'd been in lots of crashes before, but usually because I did
| dumb shit. This time really shocked my conscious because there
| was just no explanation, no bad drivers, no bad vehicles, no
| dumb shit, nothing remarkably bad with the road, nothing I can
| assign fault to anyone or anything. It was a solid week before
| I got back on the bike after that; usually after a crash I'm
| back on within minutes if it's still rideable. Impossible to
| prevent, and no way something like that can happen in a car.
| diziet wrote:
| Paper appears available here via "Open PDF in Browser" link:
|
| https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4084982
| Syonyk wrote:
| ... ask anyone with serious motorcycle miles and they'll tell you
| about the same thing.
|
| When I was riding motorcycles as a daily driver, I modified my
| headlights to keep the low beams on when the high beams were on,
| simply for visibility - it gave me a "wide, multi-color front
| bar" (low beams were HID, high beams were upgraded incandescent,
| outer markers were yet different colored) that improved people
| seeing me. Another bike I did the same thing to, so both
| headlights were on normally to improve visibility.
|
| I ride sidecar rigs now, which have a "wide, weird lighting"
| layout (central headlight on the bike, but a sidecar light too),
| and I'll ride those at night. But the one remaining two wheeler
| is just a single central headlight, and I won't ride it at night
| for exactly the reasons this study found - you can't tell
| distance/speed/etc from a single headlight without any other
| context.
| Jcampuzano2 wrote:
| Serious rider here. Riding is my primary transportation.
|
| I used to ride at night much more often years ago, but I've
| basically modified my lifestyle to the point of just avoiding
| riding at night at all regardless of lighting situation. After
| enough close calls with drivers who just don't pay attention,
| not to mention in the city I live in drunk driving as well as
| aggressive driving is sadly very common.
|
| To be honest I even feel less comfortable driving at night even
| in a car, for the rare time I drive my girlfriends car after
| enough years of just avoiding night driving.
| wildrhythms wrote:
| When I took the MSF (Motorcycle Safety Foundation) basic rider
| course, they had everyone turn on the extra headlight by
| default, with that exact explanation.
| acid_burn wrote:
| As a rider, I try to pay particular attention to how I perceive
| motorcycles when I'm driving a car. At night, anything other than
| two headlights moving like a car is confusing to me. I often
| mistake parked cars for motorcycles when one of their headlights
| is occluded by something. Even when I'm sure I'm looking at a
| motorcycle, it's extremely difficult to tell how far away it is
| and how fast it's going without that second headlight positioned
| a relatively standard distance apart.
|
| I've concluded that headlights, or perhaps any "point" lights,
| are insufficient. I figure the best solution would be to light up
| the whole bike with LED underglow or something, so there's no
| mistaking what your looking at. Unfortunately that's illegal in
| my state. For now I've settled for a host of reflective decals,
| but I might go for green lights and risk a ticket instead of my
| life (as much).
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