[HN Gopher] Apple unveils redesigned iPad
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Apple unveils redesigned iPad
        
       Author : todsacerdoti
       Score  : 67 points
       Date   : 2022-10-18 15:01 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
        
       | andrewstuart wrote:
       | I really like iPads but I haven't used mine for years now. It's
       | sitting in a box somewhere. There doesn't seem to be a need for
       | it, for me.
        
         | reneherse wrote:
         | Mine sat around too, until I began using it as an extended
         | display on a stand. The recent Mac OS auxiliary display
         | features are pretty good (brilliant in some ways, maddening in
         | others).
        
         | nfriedly wrote:
         | You should probably sell it or give it to a family member or
         | something like that.
        
       | hathym wrote:
       | still a rectangle with rounded corners.
        
       | switch007 wrote:
       | PS369 to PS499. Ouch
        
       | sheepybloke wrote:
       | Finally! One of my biggest disappointments during the last
       | announcement cycle was that they didn't update the looks of the
       | base model iPad. The old design was iconic, but looked very
       | dated, which was frustrating since you would have to buy at least
       | an Air to get a tablet from Apple that looked like it was modern.
       | It also made recommending the base iPad hard, because while the
       | ecosystem is the best ecosystem for a tablet, the tablet looked
       | and felt so dated. A welcome refresh in my opinion!
        
       | _dongle_aster_ wrote:
       | This is still only compatible with the 1st gen Apple Pencil which
       | charges with a male lightning connector. Since this new iPad no
       | longer has a lightning port you now need an adaptor which, at
       | least, they include in the box.
        
         | alden5 wrote:
         | nope it doesn't include the adapter, its a $9 extra purchased
         | on top of the pencil, also the adapter is female on both sides
         | so the dongle doesn't plug in directly to the ipad, it requires
         | a cable
        
       | bitsoda wrote:
       | So they only support Apple Pencil Gen 1, but remove the Lightning
       | port which it requires for charging, so they sell you a dongle,
       | but the environment is important to Apple. Okay.
       | 
       | What's the point of the flat edges if you're not going to support
       | the Apple Pencil Gen 2? I get that a company like Apple deals in
       | massive scale, but this seems so off-putting as a consumer. Just
       | merge the iPad Air and iPad lines already, they're doing some sad
       | technical gymnastics trying to differentiate the lines.
        
         | gpt5 wrote:
         | This is an overly negative comment for what is a positive move.
         | Supporting USB-C instead of lightning is good, and it is a
         | reasonable cost to have older accessories face backwards
         | compatibility issues.
        
           | gregoriol wrote:
           | They could have support Pencil 2, which is being sold quite
           | some time now... the point is that is doesn't make much sense
           | to only support Pencil 1.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | My guess is:
         | 
         | - They want to standardize on the flat-edge design for
         | aesthetic/consistency/synergy/slightly-more-usable-volume
         | reasons. The entry-level iPad was the last remaining
         | iPhone/iPad with non-flat edges.
         | 
         | - Pencil 2 charging conflicts with a landscape camera. (This
         | also explains why the new iPad Pros have kept the portrait
         | camera.) They chose the landscape camera, and the missing
         | Pencil 2 support provides an additional differentiator for the
         | iPad Air.
         | 
         | - They have to migrate to USB-C before the end of 2023 due to
         | EU regulations, and the next update of the entry-level iPad may
         | not happen before 18 months from now.
         | 
         | It probably all makes sense from Apple's perspective, even
         | though the result is confusing and irritating for consumers.
        
         | lm28469 wrote:
         | > but the environment is important to Apple
         | 
         | Nobody even themselves believe that, it's 100% marketing, they
         | wouldn't be shitting ten new devices with welded batteries per
         | year if they cared
        
           | scarface74 wrote:
           | If only Apple offered a service to replace just the
           | battery...
        
           | VLM wrote:
           | Its a very 1980s Soviet Union vibe. Sure, we have to say we
           | believe all this stuff that nobody believes anymore, yeah.
        
             | lm28469 wrote:
             | In a way it is, but capitalism has been way more successful
             | than the soviet's Pravda could have dreamed of
        
               | vt85 wrote:
        
           | jjtheblunt wrote:
           | Are you ignoring the effort to clear their supply chain and
           | own engineering of all sorts of chemicals known to be toxic
           | during manufacture, use, and recycling/disposal?
           | 
           | It's been completed over 10 years ago easily.
        
             | lm28469 wrote:
             | The process is inherently a waste of resource, you can make
             | it as efficient as you want, selling airpods with glued
             | batteries, 200 millions phones per year, pushing people to
             | continuously upgrade, &c. is an unsustainable waste
             | 
             | This is like the aviation industry, rolls royce making
             | their engine 5% more efficient over a decade is nice, if in
             | the meantime we multiplied the number of flights by 30
             | we're still fucked
             | 
             | So yes apple removed some plastic wraps and uses a bit of
             | recycled aluminum, its all marketing, carbon neutrality
             | isn't a thing, green capitalism isn't a thing, it's a feel
             | good marketing slogan for 30 years old techbros buying a
             | new apple watch every 9 months
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | Have you looked at the typical AirPod and how much of is
               | actually the battery?
        
               | lm28469 wrote:
               | Well you're making my point... when the tiny ass battery
               | inevitably fails after being cycled 1-3 times per day
               | every day you have to get rid of the whole otherwise
               | perfectly fine working product because no one can swap
               | the battery in an economically viable way
               | 
               | How efficient is that ? You could have a screw in battery
               | taking the same amount of space and allowing a basically
               | unlimited life, but I guess I'm not a "genius(tm)"
               | 
               | Just so you know this is how e waste is "recycled":
               | 
               | https://www.spiegel.de/international/tomorrow/electronic-
               | was...
               | 
               | https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/burning-
               | truth-...
               | 
               | https://www.genevaenvironmentnetwork.org/resources/update
               | s/t...
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | And the alternative is a larger battery and a heavier
               | headphone for something that goes directly in your ear.
        
               | lm28469 wrote:
               | The horror... "why did you destroy your home planet ?"
               | "convenience"
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | Yes I'm sure a 1 pound set of headphones would have been
               | comfortable hanging on your ears and out of all of the
               | things that are "destroying the planet", I'm sure that
               | AirPods are a bigger culprit than anything - including
               | all of the Android phones that get thrown away because
               | they never see an update.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | mdtrooper wrote:
        
       | hypertele-Xii wrote:
       | > The stunning 10.9-inch Liquid Retina display extends to the
       | edges
       | 
       | No it doesn't.
       | 
       | https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/product/ipad/standard/...
        
         | bobbylarrybobby wrote:
         | It extends to the edges of the display!
        
         | joe5150 wrote:
         | This is a new level of asking me to reject the evidence of my
         | eyes and ears. I'm also not sure "completely redesigned" rings
         | true. It looks more or less exactly like the iPad Air?
        
           | bmitc wrote:
           | Yea, didn't the iPad Air already have the touch to unlock
           | sensor on the power button? Are they claiming it is
           | completely redesigned because they just "renamed" the iPad
           | Air to iPad? Apple has always had misleading content if not
           | outright lies in their marketing.
        
         | bradgessler wrote:
         | Yeah there's a huge black bezel around the whole thing.
        
         | mkmk wrote:
         | Maybe they mean that there's no notch/punch hole?
        
           | cromka wrote:
           | Yeah, but then they would be redefining the "edge".
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | They mean there's no home button.
        
         | wanderingstan wrote:
         | The edges are getting so thin that there are even 3rd party
         | products that allow you to properly grip an iPad while drawing:
         | http://darkboard.com/
        
           | hombre_fatal wrote:
           | Well, that thing adds like five inches of bevel so it doesn't
           | seem like a response to shrinking bevel sizes. If it only
           | added an inch, the observation would make more sense.
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | The previous iPad design with thinner bezels on two sides and
           | larger bezels on the two other sides was arguably the better
           | design.
        
         | TIPSIO wrote:
         | Ha, great catch. Also the title:
         | 
         | > unveils completely redesigned iPad
         | 
         | More: "unveils just slightly upgraded with nearly the same
         | design"
        
           | gregoriol wrote:
           | "with almost the design of the iPad Air 5 introduced some
           | time ago but nobody remembers"
        
         | rexf wrote:
         | Yeah, Apple has normalized misleading marketing speak.
         | 
         | Here's one from 2017 about the iPhone
         | 
         | > iPhone X: Apple's new 'edge-to-edge' screen includes strange
         | notch at the top
         | 
         | > The screen doesn't actually go edge-to-edge, despite
         | descriptions that refer to it that way. Or rather, it goes to
         | three of the edges - leaving a little cut-out at the top, where
         | the screen can't quite reach to the top of the display.
         | 
         | https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/iphone-x-apple-screen-dis...
        
         | everdrive wrote:
         | Why would I even want it to? The bezel is functional. It allows
         | me to hold the screen or prop it up without obscuring the
         | display or GUI. I wish bezels would come back.
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | Yeah, I mean I know what they mean (no more _larger_ bezel on
         | _two_ sides like before, bezels on all sides are all now
         | smaller /equal) -- but that's not the right way to describe it.
        
         | dmonitor wrote:
         | The screen extends completely to the edges of the screen. It's
         | tautologically correct.
        
         | Ptchd wrote:
        
         | geysersam wrote:
         | *for some definition of "edges", specifically the edges of the
         | display, hence the display extends to the edges, by definition
        
       | hnburnsy wrote:
       | would really like an iPad like the Surface with squared screen
       | corners and a built in stand.
        
       | secabeen wrote:
       | This is a big change for K-12, as it instantly EOLs all the mass
       | charging equipment they have. Certainly doable, but with the
       | increased price and the necessary charging equipment that now all
       | needs to be replaced, it's a pretty big price hit.
        
       | ihuman wrote:
       | This iPad has the flat sides from the Air and Pro, but it's not
       | compatible with the 2nd gen iPad pencil. Instead, they're
       | releasing a USB-C adapter so you can charge it directly from the
       | iPad (1st gen plugged directly into the iPad's lightning port).
        
         | LegitShady wrote:
         | truly baffling
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | The Pencil is one of the more irritating product choices Apple
         | has made. Plugging the first gen directly into a Lightning port
         | end-first was a stupid idea from the get go. Version 2 got that
         | right. But why did they need to make them incompatible
         | otherwise? Other than to make a few extra bucks, of course.
         | Forcing people to upgrade for no particular reason, and on top
         | of that continuing to sell both versions for different devices.
         | It's ridiculous.
        
       | praveen9920 wrote:
       | Is it me or innovation at apple is going down?
       | 
       | The last time they released a "new type" of device is the apple
       | watch or TV and all they are doing these days is "improving"
       | existing devices. Don't get me wrong, I prefer apple's eco-system
       | over others but I feel that the Apple most people love is no
       | more.
       | 
       | I understand from a business perspective that they want to milk
       | the cash cows but I am afraid they are slowly becoming more like
       | Microsoft. Probably time for new player.
        
         | cududa wrote:
         | The M* series chips are an absolutely wild innovation. Changed
         | the whole productline and imo, represtents a "new type" of
         | devive. Plus the VR headset is coming, and the AR glasses are
         | going to knock everyones socks off when they see how clever
         | they are compared to every other AR waveguide approach
        
       | tiffanyh wrote:
       | This appears to be mostly a rebranded 2020 iPad Air, now
       | available in multiple colors at $150 cheaper price point than
       | when the Air was launched.
       | 
       | https://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/?modelList=ipad-air-4th-g...
        
         | skiman10 wrote:
         | The camera is now side mounted and for some reason the new
         | basic iPad only has 1st gen pencil support with an asinine $9
         | adapter to charge it. Oh and a non-laminated display on the
         | basic iPad still.
         | 
         | https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MQLU3AM/A/usb-c-to-apple-...
        
           | alexanderchr wrote:
           | Maybe Apple still has a surplus of first gen pencils to get
           | rid off?
        
             | dagmx wrote:
             | The previous gen iPad is still available so it likely is to
             | reduce confusion and having an extra sku
        
           | brewdad wrote:
           | Is the non-laminated display really an issue when 90+ % of
           | users are going to slap a screen protector on this Day 1.
           | 
           | I am disappointed in the lack of 2nd gen pencil support
           | though.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | turtlebits wrote:
           | The pencil comes with that adapter.
        
           | coder543 wrote:
           | Yeah, I've seen several people trying to say this is related
           | to the iPad Air, but... other than some similar design
           | aesthetics, this device does not appear to be related to the
           | iPad Air _at all._ The exterior dimensions are all different,
           | and this new iPad is missing several important features from
           | the iPad Air. The screen doesn 't even support the P3 gamut
           | that the 2020 iPad Air supported.
        
       | formerly_proven wrote:
       | That's a pretty massive price increase isn't it? Worse for
       | europoors: 350 EUR to ~550 EUR - 60 % (430 and 580 at Apple
       | directly, 35 %)
        
         | pooper wrote:
         | I would be OK with it if the Wi Fi only non cellular version
         | came with GPS but once again GPS is limited to cellular only.
         | 
         | Is there any reason to do this besides price discrimination?
        
           | unclenoriega wrote:
           | It's probably using A-GPS.
        
             | 0x457 wrote:
             | A-GPS aka A-GNSS still uses GPS signal. The only difference
             | is that metadata is downloaded via fast link (cellular or
             | wifi) instead of slow satellite link. IIRC all mobile
             | devices with A-GPS can download that over satellite link if
             | needed, just takes longer.
             | 
             | The real issue here is that it's integrated into a cellular
             | modem, not that it's A-GPS.
        
           | foxandmouse wrote:
           | GPS is integrated into the cellular system, the GPS is
           | handled by the Intel PMB9960 P10PSV modem,
        
       | msoad wrote:
       | USB-C on this is not the big news. The USB-C on Apple TV remote
       | controller is the sign you're looking for. Apple is end of life-
       | ing Lightning connector after all
        
         | Hamuko wrote:
         | I imagine AirPods and the iPhone will be next year, considering
         | the EU USB-C deadline is approaching and it doesn't really make
         | sense for the AirPods and the iPhone to have different charging
         | cables.
        
           | diebeforei485 wrote:
           | > the EU USB-C deadline is approaching
           | 
           | It's only arriving in the end of 2024, so in theory even the
           | 2024 iPhones could still use Lightning.
           | 
           | I'd imagine the Pro iPhones would ditch Lightning first,
           | hopefully for Thunderbolt/USB4 for fast transfer speeds for
           | video files.
           | 
           | The non-Pro iPhones would probably move over to USB-C the
           | year after the Pro phones do.
        
       | bonney_io wrote:
       | This thing is a mess. The new design, but using the OLD Pencil
       | (requiring a USB-C to Lightning adapter), and it's $120 more
       | expensive
        
       | xenonite wrote:
       | It has speakers on either side. That probably kills the adequate
       | microphone quality for free speaking on the previous iPads. The
       | closer the microphone is to the speakers, the harder it is for
       | loopback canceling to work good.
       | 
       | So, back to the headset. Oh, I forgot: can't use the headphone
       | jack for that. So how am I supposed to do calls the whole day
       | without recharging?
       | 
       | Also, I prefer to plug in a LAN adapter to improve latency
       | (Lightning to USB Adapter to LAN). No, I won't go for a Bluetooth
       | headset with even worse latency.
        
         | jamesgeck0 wrote:
         | This doesn't use Lightning. I'm positive there's some USB-C
         | dongle that splits off power, aux, and ethernet.
        
       | smileybarry wrote:
       | From the pricing section:
       | 
       | > Wi-Fi models of the new iPad are available with a starting
       | price of $449 (US), and Wi-Fi + Cellular models start at $599
       | (US). The new iPad, in 64GB and 256GB configurations, comes in
       | blue, pink, yellow, and silver.
       | 
       | > iPad (9th generation) will remain in the iPad lineup. Wi-Fi
       | models of iPad (9th generation) are available with a starting
       | price of $329 (US), and Wi-Fi + Cellular models start at $459
       | (US), in silver and space gray finishes.
       | 
       | They're keeping the older model and making this sort of a price
       | hike, which I'm not a fan of, but at least I can stop
       | recommending the $600 iPad Air just to avoid the old iPad design
       | ecosystem.
       | 
       | Also, funnily enough: the new iPad comes with _A14_ Bionic and
       | the new Apple TV 4K comes with _A15_ Bionic. I get that it 's due
       | to binning and such but it's still a bit funny.
        
         | dudus wrote:
         | Really weird they kept the A14 for the new iPads. The iPad mini
         | already uses A15 as well as the Apple TV.
         | 
         | The iPad mini is $50 more but it has A15 and Pencil 2.
        
       | StevePerkins wrote:
       | Eeesh, I dunno.
       | 
       | With an iPad costing about 50% more than a decent (e.g. Lenovo or
       | Samsung) Android tablet, then I would absolutely go for the Apple
       | product. My $450 8th gen iPad is a fantastic device.
       | 
       | But if an iPad now costs 100%+ more than a decent Android tablet,
       | then I think I'm being squeezed out here. A tablet is a not a
       | laptop-replacement for me. It's a thing that I use to read books
       | and watch movies laying in bed. $600+ for that is starting to get
       | silly, when there are plenty of serviceable options in the $300
       | range.
        
         | d3nj4l wrote:
         | You can still get the 9th gen iPad at $329.
        
           | Kon-Peki wrote:
           | Even better would have been to get one of those last month
           | when Costco was liquidating their stock for $270.
           | 
           | Almost nobody carries the "old model" in stock, always a good
           | idea to pay attention when they lower the price to get rid of
           | it ;)
        
         | tonymet wrote:
         | Android tablets are universally terrible. A poor product isn't
         | worth half the price - better to avoid it altogether.
        
           | nfriedly wrote:
           | Eh, I get where you're coming from, because _most_ Android
           | tablets are indeed terrible. However, I finally got myself
           | one of the higher-end Samsung ones (Tab S7) and it 's
           | ...fine. Not earth-shatteringly good, but I'm happy with it.
           | 
           | It's completely replaced my iPad usage except for one game
           | that isn't available on Android (FTL) - I still break out the
           | iPad to play that occasionally.
           | 
           | No tablet is going to replace my laptop for my primary task
           | of coding, but for video calls, email, note taking, slack,
           | checking my calendar, web browsing, movies, and occasional
           | gaming, the Samsung tablet is great.
           | 
           | Two things I particularly like about the Samsung tablet are
           | the microSD slot for expandable storage, and the fact that I
           | can unlock the bootloader and install a community ROM
           | whenever Samsung stops supporting it.
           | 
           | The lack of a headphone jack is disappointing, but I think
           | Apple is partially to blame for that.
        
           | w1nst0nsm1th wrote:
           | Xiaomi My Pad 5 is a great device for 400$.
           | 
           | Hi res, great battery life. Improved user experience, and
           | spied all at once by Xiaomi, Google, Uncle Sam and Uncle Xi.
           | 
           | The real magic with android devices is you can (could?)
           | obtain easily superuser privilege just by 'dd' the system
           | partition, install in it supersu binaries with proper
           | privileges and ownership by mounting the said partition on a
           | linux system, and fastboot it back in the tablet.
           | 
           | You could also back up your whole data partition in the same
           | way and upload the resulting .img file to mega cloud drive
           | automatically with a script if you had a sd slot in the
           | tablet as a temporary directory...
           | 
           | And until KitKat, you could also install and run a full
           | debian system with debootstrap side by side with android with
           | DebianKit on the android kernel (no chroot nonsense). It was
           | a marvel of its kind at time impossible now.
           | 
           | That being said, I'm writing this on an iPad.
        
       | vjeux wrote:
       | Can someone explain what the "completely redesigned" references?
       | It doesn't look different than any ipads before to me.
        
         | awestroke wrote:
         | They designed it from scratch: rounded corners, black bezels,
         | glossy screen, side buttons. It's pure coincidence that it
         | looks exactly like the previous design
        
         | dont__panic wrote:
         | The old 9th gen iPad still had a home button, fun colors, and a
         | totally square screen. This update removes the home button,
         | brings rounded display corners and colors and a new processor.
         | And brings the non-Mini, non-Pro iPad into the same design
         | language as the iPhone and the Mini/Pro iPads.
         | 
         | There might still be a fingerprint sensor in the lock button,
         | though.
        
           | ASalazarMX wrote:
           | These small changes are "big news" because the iPad is not
           | (yet) a fashion statement, unlike the iPhone, who suffers
           | enough small changes each iteration so your peers can guess
           | what model you have and how cool you are.
           | 
           | I don't know if it's common, but I associate iPads with small
           | kids, and maybe Apple wants to change that perception.
        
           | ihuman wrote:
           | Yes, they moved the fingerprint sensor to the lock bottom on
           | top
        
       | crims0n wrote:
       | Looks like price increased to $449 USD? Still a good value, but a
       | noticeable increase.
        
         | cromka wrote:
         | Came here to notice that. This price hike will somehow put
         | cheap Android tablets on the map, again. Previously there was
         | hardly a justification to get any of them if iPad was $299 --
         | and frequently could be had for even less than that.
        
           | rootusrootus wrote:
           | They continue to sell the old cheaper one. Is it still better
           | than a current model Android tablet?
        
             | cromka wrote:
             | Oh, I thought they phased it out. Yeah, AFIK it still kicks
             | Android tablet's ass.
        
           | eldaisfish wrote:
           | any android table entering the fray now will need at least a
           | decade of existence before it can hope to challenge the ipad
           | as a tablet. As much as i dislike apple, the ipad is
           | synonymous with tablets.
           | 
           | This process involves eating losses for several years and
           | only the likes of google or samsung are capable of doing so.
           | Samsung have so many models of tablets available with such
           | poor software support that it is a complete non-starter.
        
       | jameshart wrote:
       | What on earth is a 'liquid retina' display?
        
         | artimaeis wrote:
         | The "liquid" in liquid retina refers to the corners of the
         | display being rounded to match the bezels. Retina is a now
         | longstanding Apple term for high enough resolution to not see
         | pixels at normal viewing distances. Hope that clarifies things,
         | they should keep a glossary page up for things like this, hah.
        
         | 58028641 wrote:
         | Liquid (LCD) retina (high resolution)
        
         | warp wrote:
         | Liquid refers to it being an LCD (Liquid-crystal display), so
         | not OLED.
         | 
         | Retina is Apple's name for a high pixel density display, in
         | this case it's 2360x1640 pixels at 10" so 264 PPI?
        
           | jameshart wrote:
           | Have other retina displays been marketed as 'organic retina'?
           | Have previous LCD retina displays been marketed using this
           | term?
        
             | _dongle_aster_ wrote:
             | Yes, since Apple started selling devices with OLED screens,
             | they have called new products with LCD screens Liquid
             | Retina. See iPhone XR, iPhone 11, iPad Mini 6, etc.
        
             | warp wrote:
             | They seem to be using "Super Retina" for all their OLED
             | screens.
             | 
             | (I agree with artimaeis the marketing is confusing and they
             | should publish a glossary page with definitions for these
             | terms).
        
       | ben7799 wrote:
       | The price spread on this versus the Air is questionable.
       | 
       | Stock price on this for 256GB is $600, the Air with 256GB is
       | $750.
       | 
       | But the Air 256GB is $660 on Amazon right now.
       | 
       | $60 for the M1 and a few other advantages seem worth it.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | xd1936 wrote:
         | There are a few other nice things that you get with the new
         | 10th Gen iPad... Namely, a landscape front-facing camera and
         | newer Magic Keyboard Folio.
         | 
         | https://twitter.com/viticci/status/1582392074275819520
        
       | dont__panic wrote:
       | They finally killed the headphone jack in the plain-jane iPad,
       | what a shame. I'm not exactly a tablet person -- my ereader suits
       | me just fine for reading, which is all I'd want to do on a
       | tablet, anyway -- but why do people put up with this? I
       | understand that phones are small, and thus "hard" to fit the jack
       | into... but why remove it from tablets?
        
         | mattnewton wrote:
         | Apple sells a lot of wireless headphones.
        
           | skrause wrote:
           | So which wireless headphones do I get for $19 like the
           | EarPods?
        
             | mattnewton wrote:
             | Those wired headphones used to be cheap enough to include
             | in the box.
             | 
             | Now you're upsold $169 airpods from apple, or $79 power
             | beats (also from apple). The experience is better, sure,
             | but they also left nothing to chance here by closing the
             | door on your existing cheap wired headphones.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | Or you can buy literally any BT or USB C headphones.
        
             | ThatPlayer wrote:
             | https://www.scarbir.com/truewireless : This guy has done a
             | ton of reviews on cheap TWS. I've picked a few 25$ ones off
             | his recommendations and they work fine.
        
         | andrewstuart wrote:
         | "No. You don't want or need that headphone jack".
         | 
         | ...... anonymous Apple designer.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | Apple wants you to buy AirPods.
        
         | ASalazarMX wrote:
         | They had to because it's impossible to water proof the iPad
         | with a headphone jack, or because there's not enough space
         | inside the device, I forgot what was the official reason they
         | used for the iPhone. The unofficial reason is that no headphone
         | port means more AirPod sales.
        
           | mattnewton wrote:
           | Lots of waterproof android phones on the market had a 3.5mm
           | jack before their brand of wireless headphones was ready to
           | upsell, which I think points pretty conclusively to the
           | "unofficial" reason being the real reason.
        
         | samcat116 wrote:
         | At this point all my headphones are bluetooth anyways. One less
         | port water and stuff can get into (although I agree they
         | probably should have kept it here).
        
           | asdff wrote:
           | OTOH my earpods have gone though the wash several times, I
           | don't think the bluetooth headphones will cooperate with a
           | rainstorm much less the laundry machine.
        
         | brk wrote:
         | At this point I'm over wired headphones. I carry a couple of
         | pairs in my backpack for use on airplane seat back
         | entertainment systems, but otherwise I prefer Bluetooth
         | earbuds.
        
           | naravara wrote:
           | I prefer the bluetooth ones for convenience, but the option
           | to go wired would be nice. Especially since some VOIP and
           | conference software does weird stuff with latency
           | compensation when you're on bluetooth.
        
         | ls15 wrote:
         | > but why do people put up with this?
         | 
         | What is the alternative? Android tablets are no drop-in
         | replacement. Ipads are great for music production. Many great
         | apps only exist on iOS. Bluetooth audio introduces a delay
         | which makes playing software instruments live impractical. So
         | dongles until Apple comes to reason.
        
         | D13Fd wrote:
         | Yeah! And why can't don't they have ports for SD cards, USB
         | sticks, and floppy disks!
         | 
         | At some point, things change. We're at that point with wired
         | headphones. You can already share Bluetooth headphones across a
         | Mac/iPhone/Tablet with extreme ease. And if you really want,
         | you can adapt regular wired headphones to bluetooth.
         | 
         | And on iPads specifically, it's not like people are carrying
         | them around in their pocket to listen to music.
        
           | gkbrk wrote:
           | Huh? Android phones support SD cards and USB sticks.
        
           | dont__panic wrote:
           | Hilarious. SD card support in phones and tablets is another
           | requirement for me, and yet another reason why I won't buy
           | Apple products in those categories. Built-in storage is
           | expensive and anemic. SD cards are especially appropriate for
           | photo and music storage, since they're read-heavy workloads
           | and convenient to transfer between devices when you want to
           | move the data around.
           | 
           | I don't care what anybody says: bluetooth is still trash:
           | 
           | - I routinely block bluetooth signals with just my body, for
           | instance when I exercise with my phone in my pocket.
           | 
           | - Bluetooth headphones live on borrowed time since batteries
           | are not repairable in most over-ear models, much less buds.
           | 
           | - I don't want to manage another set of batteries.
           | 
           | - Bluetooth audio suffers from an order of magnitude greater
           | latency than wired audio.
           | 
           | - Bluetooth audio is noticeably worse quality, and codec
           | compatibility is a mess between devices.
           | 
           | - Using bluetooth for audio input and output simultaneously
           | inevitably results in garbage quality for both. Just ask any
           | of my coworkers in an audio call where they use AirPods.
           | 
           | Obviously floppy discs are not needed anymore, especially in
           | mobile form factors.
           | 
           | By "USB sticks," I assume you're referring to USB-A ports,
           | and guess what: I still have a ton of USB-A devices, and I'm
           | not about to generate pounds of ewaste by throwing out the
           | devices and/or cables. That port is going to be useful for
           | years still. But you bring up a good point: why can't we at
           | least have two USB-C ports on the iPad Pro? Wouldn't it be
           | useful to charge and use a peripheral sometimes?
           | 
           | People play games and watch videos all the time on iPads. The
           | aux jack is useful. There's almost certainly enough free
           | space in the chassis to fit the port. It's great that you're
           | utterly in love with bluetooth and you can't imagine using
           | anything else, but it really sucks for everyone else that we
           | don't even have an option any more.
        
         | KindAndFriendly wrote:
         | The main use case for my current iPad is to connect the audio-
         | jack to my guitar amp and use GarageBand - which currently
         | works great because I can charge the iPad at the same time. I
         | guess in the future one can only use the audio out OR charge -
         | which is a shame.
         | 
         | Edit: No, I can't really use bluetooth here since a) 99% of
         | guitar amps have no BT support and b) the latency is
         | noticeable.
        
           | lathiat wrote:
           | If you search Belkin Rockstar there is a dual port lightning
           | adaptor and also a lightning+3.5mm adaptor.
           | 
           | Can still be done with a dongle at least.
        
             | nfriedly wrote:
             | I believe this iPad has USB-C instead of lightning, but
             | there's a "Belkin Rockstar" for that too:
             | https://www.belkin.com/us/adapters/audio-
             | charge/rockstar-3-5... (as well as several other brands)
        
             | barbazoo wrote:
             | Having to buy more stuff. Mission accomplished.
        
             | KindAndFriendly wrote:
             | Thank you.
             | 
             | >> Rockstar -> ...looks like Belkin still does user
             | research ;-)
        
           | jamesgeck0 wrote:
           | At least generic USB-C/Aux splitters are much cheaper than
           | Apple's Lightning/Aux splitters were. The product in my first
           | search result was only $15.
        
         | diebeforei485 wrote:
         | Professionals and audiophiles (not the audience of the base
         | iPad) use an external DAC, etc.
         | 
         | Regular people these days use Bluetooth audio.
         | 
         | That leaves people who just want wired headphones. Plenty of
         | cheap USB-C to 3.5mm adapters out there.
        
           | lern_too_spel wrote:
           | All the Apple devices I've used have notoriously buggy
           | Bluetooth implementations. Maybe their implementation for
           | communicating with Apple headphones is less buggy, but even
           | when I have working Bluetooth, I'd much rather charge fewer
           | devices and not have to deal with dongles when switching
           | devices.
        
           | secabeen wrote:
           | K-12 schools will have to replace their existing headphones
           | with USB-C models, but that's not too bad, the headphones
           | take a lot of abuse in that environment. EOLing the lightning
           | charging infrastructure they have is going to be more
           | impactful.
        
       | darkwater wrote:
       | USB-C?? Is hell freezing over or good regulations making their
       | magic?
        
         | LegitShady wrote:
         | my 2018 ipad pro has USB-C. It's great. I can use standard
         | usb-c hubs and whatnot with it. this has been slowly happening
         | but its been happening.
        
         | petesergeant wrote:
         | My iPad Mini (or is it an Air?) from last Xmas has USB-C
        
         | tenebrisalietum wrote:
         | They're seriously trying to replace laptops.
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | My iPad Pro from years ago has USB-C. Apple has been moving
         | that way for a while. My guess is they're saving iPhone for
         | last because they know more people will complain about having
         | to buy new cables than are complaining now about continuing to
         | use 10 year old Lightning cables.
        
         | matwood wrote:
         | Apple has been moving towards USB-C for a long time. It's not
         | like this is their first USB-C device. I think it's the last
         | iPad that needed to move.
        
         | brundolf wrote:
         | iPads have had USB-C for years now, which just makes the iPhone
         | situation even more silly
        
           | darkwater wrote:
           | Oh, since it was posted as a highlight and seeing that
           | iPhones still have the proprietary connector, I naively
           | thought it was a novelty. Glad I was wrong, let's see when
           | they fix this in iPhones as well.
        
             | brundolf wrote:
             | It's a very confusing announcement because "iPad" here
             | means "the budget-model iPad", which has had the old design
             | with lightning and a physical home button until now, while
             | the other models (Air and Pro) haven't had either of those
             | in years
        
       | Overtonwindow wrote:
       | Apple unveils the ... Microsoft Surface? I'm not seeing a
       | "complete redesigned" iPad, if anything, it's a desperate gasp at
       | the Surface and Chromebook markets.
        
       | sdeyerle wrote:
       | Why hasn't the first-gen Apple Pencil died yet? This would be
       | very compelling if it supported the second-gen Apple Pencil.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | The charging mechanism for the second-gen pencil probably
         | conflicts with the landscape camera. Also, they don't have
         | enough differentiators to the iPad Air.
        
         | scoopertrooper wrote:
         | I think it'd be too compelling for a lot of use cases. They
         | want to nudge you up the product lineup.
        
         | bmitc wrote:
         | This seems like just a renamed iPad Air, but the iPad Air
         | supports the second-generation pencil.
        
         | kgermino wrote:
         | Dang I completely missed that. I assumed this was USB-C and
         | pencil 2 and planned to order one for my wife once I figured
         | out which color/model to buy, but I guess I'll hold off a bit
         | more :(
        
       | MonkeyMalarky wrote:
       | I'm holding out for when they make one with a translucent case.
        
         | ASalazarMX wrote:
         | At first I thought it was a cheeky reference to Star Trek IV,
         | but transparent aluminum is somewhat real:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_oxynitride
        
           | MonkeyMalarky wrote:
           | Nothing so extravagant, just highlighting the "Vibrant
           | colors!" part of the press release and remembering the days
           | when colored (and transparent!) cases were popular. Aka the
           | late 90s / early 2000s.
        
         | csdvrx wrote:
         | > one with a translucent case
         | 
         | Just like your data is to their scapers!
         | 
         | It's for your own good: so they can report you if you send a
         | pic of your kid to a doc! /s
        
       | Toutouxc wrote:
       | So far 2022 has been a great year to buy 2021 Apple products for
       | me. I got an iPhone 13 Mini slightly discounted from the old
       | price, an iPad Mini, again with a ~10% discount, and a Series 7
       | Watch, discounted. The current generations of all of these
       | products are rather disappointing and significantly more
       | expensive here in Europe. (The plain iPad was my alternative to
       | the Mini, so I'm mentioning it)
        
       | wiseowise wrote:
       | > Testing was conducted by Apple in September 2022 using
       | preproduction iPad (10th generation) systems with the Apple A14
       | Bionic chip, as well as production MediaTek MT8768N-based Android
       | tablet systems with the latest version of Android 11 available at
       | the time of testing.
       | 
       | https://www.notebookcheck.net/Mediatek-MT8768-Processor-Benc...
       | 
       | > The MediatekMT8768 is an entry level ARM SoC for smartphones
       | (mainly Android based) and tablets that was introduced in early
       | 2020.
       | 
       | Hahah, I can't believe they actually made this comparison.
        
         | Macha wrote:
         | Is Android even still the competition? The android tablet
         | market has been dead for a while. Arguably makes more sense to
         | compare to Windows tablets at this point.
        
         | coder543 wrote:
         | Taking the footnote out of context makes it look sillier than
         | it is. Here is the actual quote where the footnote was used:
         | 
         | > This makes the new iPad up to 5x faster than the best-selling
         | Android tablet, and for users looking to upgrade from a device
         | like iPad (7th generation), they will see up to 3x improvement
         | in overall performance with the new iPad.
         | 
         | The footnote also mentions this immediately after your quote
         | ends, which you presumably left out because it would have made
         | the theme of the above quote more obvious and less confusing:
         | 
         | > Best-selling systems are based on publicly available sales
         | data over the last 12 months.
         | 
         | If Apple clearly states they are comparing to "the best-selling
         | Android tablet", and they do, then I don't see what the problem
         | is. They didn't say "compared to the fastest Android tablet"
         | and then whip out the old MT8768 or some nonsense like that.
         | The reader is welcome to disregard the comparison, but the
         | comparison isn't misleading.
         | 
         | The basic iPad has surely been Apple's best selling iPad for a
         | long time, so that is Apple's point of comparison for this one.
         | If they wanted to compare absolute performance against the best
         | the Android tablet market has to offer, they would use the iPad
         | Pro with the M2 chip, not the basic iPad.
         | 
         | I would also point out that _anecdotally_ , I don't know a
         | single person with an Android tablet that cost $200 or more. I
         | know plenty of people with Android tablets that cost way less
         | than $200. Most people reading Apple's comparison who have an
         | Android tablet will be trying to understand why _they_ should
         | pay the premium for an iPad instead of buying another $100
         | tablet, and being 5x faster is a logical hook. People with a
         | $400+ Android tablet are unlikely to be considering a basic
         | iPad, since they 've clearly already made up their mind.
        
           | wiseowise wrote:
           | > Most people reading Apple's comparison who have an Android
           | tablet will be trying to understand why they should pay the
           | premium for an iPad instead of buying another $100 tablet,
           | and being 5x faster is a logical hook. People with a $400+
           | Android tablet are unlikely to be considering a basic iPad,
           | since they've clearly already made up their mind.
           | 
           | No, most people reading Apple's comparison will think that it
           | is 5 times faster than fastest Android tablet and this is
           | exactly what they're aiming for. How many non-developers or
           | non-hardware enthusiasts do you expect to actually read what
           | is best selling Android table CPU? None, they'll think that
           | iPad is 5x faster than Galaxy tablet.
        
             | coder543 wrote:
             | > most people reading Apple's comparison will think that it
             | is 5 times faster than fastest Android tablet and this is
             | exactly what they're aiming for
             | 
             | That is such a wild conclusion. Apple clearly says "best-
             | selling" right in the claim. They didn't hide it in a
             | footnote. I believe that "best-selling" is not a difficult
             | concept to understand for most people, and I struggle to
             | think of a better way for Apple to have worded things
             | there. If BMW compared one of their new vehicles to the
             | best-selling car in America, who is going think BMW is
             | intending for the reader to compare against a Bugatti
             | Chiron? That is not what anyone would conclude, and it's
             | the same here.. no one should immediately conclude that
             | Apple is comparing to the fastest Android tablet when they
             | clearly say "best-selling".
             | 
             | Since you apparently believe most people can't read (or at
             | least, can't understand the words "best-selling"), there's
             | probably nothing Apple could have written that would have
             | worked for you here. The comparison against the class of
             | android tablet that the reader is most likely to have is an
             | extremely valid one.
        
             | adeelk93 wrote:
             | The galaxy tablet isn't the best selling android tablet?
             | then what is, is it the kindle?
        
         | bioemerl wrote:
         | Similar price. Fair comparison.
        
           | abainbridge wrote:
           | Here's an Android Tablet with that chip for PS99 ($88 at
           | current exchange rate). https://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/tcl-
           | tab-10s-32gb-10.2-inch-w...
        
           | m45t3r wrote:
           | No it is not. A Xiaomi Mi Pad 5 for example is still cheaper
           | than the newly announced iPad (US$399) and uses a much more
           | powerful Qualcomm Snapdragon 860 CPU.
           | 
           | A14 is still 1.5~2x[1] faster than this CPU, but using a
           | really low budget CPU for comparison is really unfair here.
           | 
           | [1]: https://nanoreview.net/en/soc-compare/qualcomm-
           | snapdragon-86...
        
       | brundolf wrote:
       | The branding has gotten so confusing
       | 
       | As far as I can tell this is the exact same design the iPad Air
       | has had for a couple years now, but "iPad" (no descriptor) is a
       | separate product, which until now still used the old-school form
       | factor with the physical home button, etc. So this design isn't
       | new at all for "iPad the line of devices", but it is new for
       | "iPad the budget-tier iPad"
       | 
       | ...but even with that information- is this model still worse than
       | the Air somehow even though its design has been updated? In what
       | ways? Is it just slightly less powerful or something? Or did
       | their positions flip? Why didn't they just drop this model,
       | making the Air/Pro duality consistent with the MacBooks? Are they
       | going to drop the Air instead? And most importantly for folks who
       | haven't/can't research the technical details: "the iPad and iPad
       | Air look identical [and have names that don't tell me how they're
       | different]; which one should I buy??"
        
         | the_lucifer wrote:
         | > is this model still worse than the Air somehow even though
         | its design has been updated?
         | 
         | Yes, in a myriad of ways! This iPad doesn't have a laminated
         | touchscreen, and it still uses the Gen. 1 Apple Pencil weirdly
         | so no magnets and you need a type c to lightning adapter to
         | charge it up.
        
           | brundolf wrote:
           | Lol wow, I thought that was a typo but you're right:
           | 
           | > Apple Pencil (1st generation) is compatible with the new
           | iPad. A new USB-C to Apple Pencil Adapter is required for
           | pairing and charging and is included in the box with a new
           | version of Apple Pencil (1st generation) for $99 (US).
           | 
           | I didn't think they even still _made_ the first-gen Apple
           | Pencil
           | 
           | So now we get to explain to grandma why this will work with
           | some Apple Pencils but not others
        
             | the_lucifer wrote:
             | Yes, I am surprised to see it flying under the radar here.
             | But it not having the gen 2 pencil support is egregious
             | especially given the hike in prices
        
             | tomjen3 wrote:
             | Lol, good catch. I was waiting for the upgrade specifically
             | for the upgraded pencil support.
        
             | crazygringo wrote:
             | That's been the case for a long time. The "basic" iPad line
             | has always only ever supported first-gen, it's never
             | supported second-gen. You've had to explain this to grandma
             | for years now.
             | 
             | They really would have done better to brand them "Pencil"
             | and "Pencil Pro", rather than 1st/2nd gen.
             | 
             | There's a good reason for it though -- when schools etc.
             | have all invested in buying tons of Pencils, they don't
             | want to have to toss them for a new iPad. At $99 they ain't
             | cheap.
        
               | brewdad wrote:
               | I'm not familiar with the internals and what goes into
               | supporting Gen1 vs Gen2 but is it not possible they could
               | have allowed this new iPad to support both?
               | 
               | Gen1 for those who have already invested in one and Gen2
               | for new customers they hope to attract or those who
               | already own a Pro device and want a secondary tablet as
               | well.
        
               | crazygringo wrote:
               | None of the iPads that support Gen2 have ever supported
               | Gen1 (and vice-versa).
               | 
               | I've never found any public details as to why. Obviously
               | the charging and pairing mechanism is entirely different,
               | but Gen1 can be charged with any USB charger, and Apple
               | now sells a USB-C <-> Lightning adapter for pairing as
               | well.
               | 
               | I have no idea if there's anything about how the pencil
               | interfaces with the screen that has changed between them.
               | It almost makes me suspect there might be, for example
               | since the new iPad Pro supports a new "hover" feature for
               | Gen2.
        
       | shadowfacts wrote:
       | I "like" how Apple makes a better keyboard/trackpad case for the
       | cheap iPad than for the Pro.
       | 
       | The new Magic Keyboard Folio:                 - has a trackpad
       | - has media keys       - can lie flat on a table without having
       | to remove the case
       | 
       | The Magic Keyboard (the floaty one):                 - has a
       | trackpad       - does not have media keys       - cannot lie flat
       | 
       | The Smart Keyboard Folio:                 - does not have a
       | trackpad       - does not have media keys       - can lie flat
       | 
       | So if you have a Pro you have to pick between being able to
       | easily write on the thing and having a trackpad available.
        
         | garyfirestorm wrote:
         | I recently got a logitech combo case. it works great with pro.
        
       | epaulson wrote:
       | I'm surprised they didn't also discontinue the iPad Air.
        
         | alden5 wrote:
         | the ipad air is still there for people like me who appreciate
         | the performance from the m1 and dont want to use the old apple
         | pencil with a dongle
        
         | WastingMyTime89 wrote:
         | They significantly raised its price. It's better for them. Why
         | simplify when you can just price gouge your customers. It's
         | Apple we are talking about.
        
       | howinteresting wrote:
       | Does the Apple Pencil still have the bug where if you store it
       | near an iPad the battery drains and can even die permanently? All
       | because form over function and there's no off switch.
        
         | JKCalhoun wrote:
         | I have three dead Apple Pencils that, I guess, died because I
         | let them sit in a drawer for a year or so. Use them or lose
         | them?
         | 
         | I suppose there's no reason at this point not to try opening
         | one up and have a go at replacing the battery.
        
           | pomatic wrote:
           | I misplaced an apple pencil recently. The $30 amazon
           | "replacement" was perfectly serviceable and I no longer had
           | to worry about losing it... (The original turned up a few
           | weeks later - down the wife's side of the sofa :-)
        
           | glenneroo wrote:
           | You could try building a "faraday pencil case":
           | https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8231431
        
       | xd1936 wrote:
       | Apple: "Every iPad now has USB-C"
       | 
       | Us: "Great, so we don't have to deal with that awful 1st-Gen
       | Apple Pencil charging anymore?"
       | 
       | Apple: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MQLU3AM/A/usb-c-to-
       | apple-...
        
         | chongli wrote:
         | The whole Apple Pencil situation is pretty annoying. The 1st
         | Gen charging style is ridiculous and should never have been
         | designed that way. The 2nd Gen, however, has another problem
         | entirely: it drains the iPad's battery even when fully charged.
         | Leaving it snapped to the side of the iPad overnight will
         | destroy the standby time in order to keep the pencil at 100%.
         | This is dumb! After a few days the iPad will be completely dead
         | but the pencil will be 100%. Thanks, Apple!
         | 
         | I wish they'd license the battery-free stylus technology from
         | Wacom. Charging the pencil all the time is so annoying that I
         | hate using it.
        
           | forrestthewoods wrote:
           | omg I had no idea what was draining my battery. This explains
           | so much. Holy crap.
        
             | coder543 wrote:
             | Until you test it for yourself, I wouldn't get so excited.
             | I disagreed with their conclusion entirely in another
             | comment already, as did several other people.
        
           | coder543 wrote:
           | My iPad mini (6th generation) drains in a few days _without_
           | a Pencil attached to it, and nothing I 've been able to do
           | manages to improve standby time noticeably. I think your
           | blame is misplaced on the Apple Pencil. Apple needs to fix
           | standby time on iPadOS across the board.
        
             | chongli wrote:
             | There may be something else draining yours. Battery life is
             | an Anna Karenina principle [1] problem. There are many
             | possible causes of battery drain. There is only one way to
             | have long-lasting battery: the absence of all those
             | sources.
             | 
             | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Karenina_principle
        
               | coder543 wrote:
               | Yes, but all of that applies to you as well. At least two
               | people have reported no battery drain with the Pencil
               | attached: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33250550
               | 
               | How certain are you that you've controlled all the
               | variables? If the Pencil was the cause of a widespread
               | issue, then I have to imagine lots of articles would be
               | being written about this and Apple would be taking it
               | seriously.
               | 
               | As it is, I think that iPadOS just has a variety of
               | things that can trigger bad battery life, and that's much
               | harder for Apple to tackle than a single, easily-defined
               | issue like the Apple Pencil affecting battery life would
               | be.
        
           | gambiting wrote:
           | Are you sure it's the pencil? My M1 iPad Pro discharges to 0
           | within 3-4 days whether I have the pencil attached or not.
        
             | chongli wrote:
             | Pretty sure. My standby time extends by a few days if I
             | leave the pencil off instead of attached.
        
             | cstejerean wrote:
             | and my M1 iPad Pro does not. Might be worth checking the
             | battery usage after a day of standby to see what is using
             | significant amount of power while backgrounded.
        
           | tekeous wrote:
           | I have my doubts - my iPad Pro 11 M1 does not discharge at
           | all with the pencil attached, standby time is easily two
           | weeks.
        
             | mechanical_bear wrote:
             | Same
        
         | bradgessler wrote:
         | I wonder how many kids have swallowed the pencil cap.
        
           | loloquwowndueo wrote:
           | Bad apple for not coating it in the nasty-tasting stuff used
           | for Nintendo Switch game cards.
        
         | MBCook wrote:
         | Yeah, insane choice. Here's a visual from Twitter:
         | 
         | https://twitter.com/_alexguyot/status/1582405085484953601
        
           | tambourine_man wrote:
           | To be fair, both are pretty bad solutions.
        
             | coder543 wrote:
             | Yes, that's... exactly the point being made. The solution
             | that _every single_ iPad with USB-C used before today isn
             | 't pictured in that tweet, and it is far better. Apple made
             | a really annoying choice here.
        
               | MBCook wrote:
               | Right. The Apple Pencil 2 (used on more expensive iPads)
               | connects to the side of the iPad magnetically and charges
               | that way. It looks nice and works fine.
               | 
               | The original way (stick straight out of the port) worked
               | but was always weird. They had a chance to fix it and...
               | compromised?
               | 
               | The "fixed" the iPad by going USB-C, which is good. They
               | don't have to redesign the first Pencil which is fine
               | (it's cheaper than v2) but that left them with... this.
               | 
               | Very un-Apple. More than the original.
        
               | [deleted]
        
       | heliophobicdude wrote:
       | Supports Apple Pencil first gen but needs adapter to charge
       | because it doesn't have lightning port
        
       | exabrial wrote:
       | > USB-C
       | 
       | Nice! Please, the iPhone next. Ditch the legacy and outdated
       | lightning jack.
        
         | tomjen3 wrote:
         | I hate this idea. I am not going to throw out my keyboard,
         | earbuds, touchpad, iphone, etc just so that they will all have
         | USB-C connections.
         | 
         | Given that, it will take me at least 5 years to replace
         | everything so I only need to use USB-C cables. 5 years where I
         | will have to use two different sets of cables.
        
           | exabrial wrote:
           | Unfortunately you're in the minority. The rest of the world
           | uses usb-c.
        
             | eldaisfish wrote:
             | This is incorrect. As recently as 2019, just under 70% of
             | phones from samsung, huawei etc used USB C. Phones using
             | micro usb are still on the market or still being used. The
             | dominant connector on phones is still micro USB.
        
         | AlchemistCamp wrote:
         | This isn't anything new. My old iPad Air has a USB-C jack.
        
       | bxparks wrote:
       | I have 2 perfectly working iPads except that they stopped getting
       | OS updates, so are now basically electronic trash. I find myself
       | becoming reluctant to support an ecosystem that generates such
       | waste. I stopped purchasing MacBooks when they started _gluing_
       | the battery.
        
         | givinguflac wrote:
         | Very interested to know what your solution is for a longer-
         | supported good tablet, as I'm unaware of one.
        
           | gambiting wrote:
           | There isn't one. iPads are the longest supported tablets out
           | there. So I guess they are saying that they are so upset
           | about this that they will stop using tablets altogether,
           | which I suppose is a valid, if weird choice.
        
             | smoldesu wrote:
             | If you want to be pedantic, the Microsoft Surface will have
             | Linux Kernel support long after the iPad has become a
             | derelict memory in the minds of Generation Z.
        
               | gambiting wrote:
               | But that's not official support. That's like saying that
               | my 10 year old Nexus 7 can still be flashed with latest
               | versions of custom ROMs so it's the longest supported
               | tablet out there.
        
               | ta8903 wrote:
               | It's a computational device, it's normal to be able to
               | install whatever OS you want on it. Apple is the outlier
               | here.
        
               | gambiting wrote:
               | I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm just pointing out that
               | when it comes to official support, Apple provides the
               | longest out of all manufacturers.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | Hey, works for me. I flash a lot of my devices with
               | custom ROMs after EOL, and they work great.
        
               | jamesgeck0 wrote:
               | Mine can't. The first generation entry-level Nexus 7 used
               | a cheap storage chip that wore out within two or three
               | years; it's completely unusable.
        
               | Wowfunhappy wrote:
               | I was actually thinking that would probably apply to
               | Windows support as well!
        
               | coder543 wrote:
               | not fully: https://support.microsoft.com/en-
               | us/surface/which-surface-de...
        
           | pjerem wrote:
           | Well, standardizing or documenting the hardware ? Making the
           | boot loader unlockable ?
           | 
           | In other worlds, doing what PCs managed to do during more
           | than three decades ?
           | 
           | I don't care that Apple stops to support my iPad after X
           | years. We can't blame them for stopping to support old enough
           | hardware.
           | 
           | But we can blame them for making this hardware locked in such
           | a way that you cannot run what you want on a device you fully
           | own and that they unilaterally decided isn't worth using
           | anymore.
        
             | scarface74 wrote:
             | You're using a PC from 1992?
        
               | layer8 wrote:
               | Some people do.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | I seriously doubt it.
        
           | pxeboot wrote:
           | The original Surface Pro is still getting updates.
        
             | coder543 wrote:
             | I think you forgot to put an asterisk there. Microsoft
             | doesn't fully support such old devices anymore:
             | https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/which-surface-
             | de...
             | 
             | It might still be getting _some_ updates, _for now_ , but
             | it can't be updated to the latest version of Windows. I
             | guess you could install Linux on it.
        
               | brewdad wrote:
               | Last I checked (admittedly about a year ago) there was
               | very poor Linux support for Surface tablets. Basic things
               | like the camera and wifi, on some devices, simply don't
               | work in Linux.
               | 
               | My Surface Go can't upgrade to Windows 11 but is still
               | getting Windows 10 updates. By the tine those stop, it
               | will pretty much be trash. As it stands today, using it
               | is painfully slow and it's portability is really about
               | the only thing going for it. 4GB of RAM and a grossly
               | underclocked CPU will do that.
        
         | bpye wrote:
         | It's still glued but they are at least using stretch release
         | adhesive now -
         | https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Pro+14-Inch+2021+Batter...
        
         | wodenokoto wrote:
         | I have a 2011 iPad that I still bring with me to the gym to
         | watch tv episodes on on the treadmill.
        
           | bonzini wrote:
           | It doesn't get OS updates though, does it? Awesome tablet if
           | it wasn't for that, battery like new on mine after 10 years.
        
             | scarface74 wrote:
             | You can still use it for Netflix and a few other video apps
             | and you can download the "last compatible version"
        
         | asdff wrote:
         | Its very frustrating that I have a stack of iPhones that I
         | can't do much with even if they are still perfectly good
         | hardware. They are either updated to some version where I can't
         | jailbreak it and turn it into the worlds best raspberry pi, or
         | I've forgotten my old passcode and its basically bricked as a
         | result. If only I could run them as a small arm cluster or
         | something useful like that.
        
           | scarface74 wrote:
           | Which iPhones would that be? The 5s is still getting security
           | updates and carriers are cutting off 3G compatibility which
           | means nothing older than the 5 will work today anyway.
        
             | asdff wrote:
             | I don't need 3g for my would be iphone cluster, wifi is
             | sufficient. These would be a 5, a 5s, and the first SE, all
             | in a nice stack because they share the same chassis. I
             | would basically use this cluster of hardware how people
             | currently use home servers, not as a phone anymore. It
             | should be plenty of power to run plex, backup other
             | devices, self host a website, among other things, since
             | these are overpowered arm devices after all. I'm not sure
             | how many cores it would be with this stack off the top of
             | my head, but it would be a nice amount to play with for
             | sure.
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | > I've forgotten my old passcode and its basically bricked as
           | a result.
           | 
           | You can use recovery mode to reset them:
           | https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212787
           | 
           | Or if that doesn't work, you can factory-reset them using DFU
           | Restore (google for it). If you don't have a Mac but a PC,
           | you can use iMazing.
        
         | hdjjhhvvhga wrote:
         | For that reason for every ios/ipados device I buy, I
         | automatically download all purchased apps and then delete the
         | ones I don't use. Apple keeps the older version most of the
         | time without charging me for storage. I think this is what I
         | pay for when I give them 30% for every app I buy.
        
         | r0fl wrote:
         | I have a bunch of iPads in the house including the 4th
         | generation one from 2012 that is still get used randomly to
         | watch content. It' 10 years old and still works without any
         | issues. It's the oldest piece of tech that I have in the house.
         | 
         | You can always recycle them with Apple if you are worried about
         | the waste footprint.
        
           | hbn wrote:
           | I have an iPad mini 2 (released 2013) that I still use every
           | night for watching YouTube videos in bed. It also got a
           | security update like a week or 2 ago.
           | 
           | It doesn't perform great, but it gets the job done for
           | watching videos.
        
           | efdee wrote:
           | Strange. I have that exact iPad and it's pretty much useless
           | now. All apps my kids want to run on it want an upgrade to a
           | version of iOS that is not available for that model.
        
             | scarface74 wrote:
             | It still works with most streaming apps that were available
             | then and it can still be used for the web.
        
         | bilsbie wrote:
         | This happened with my six year old MacBook. I'm so mad.
         | 
         | It works great and still has plenty of power but I can't seem
         | to upgrade the OS. And one by one the apps I use stop
         | supporting my OS.
         | 
         | Really feels like such a waste and makes me wonder if I really
         | own it at all.
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | Which MacBook?
           | 
           | According to Wikipedia, macOS Monterey has support for
           | everything that dates back to 2016. The only exception I see
           | would be if you bought the 2015 model of MacBook in 2016?
           | 
           | In any case, it still runs Big Sur. What apps don't run on
           | Big Sur...?
           | 
           | If you're just running into an installation bug for Big Sur,
           | you can always just install it clean rather than upgrading.
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacOS_Monterey#Supported_ha
           | rdw...
        
         | kolinko wrote:
         | What did you switch into? Apple has a record time of support
         | for their devices.
         | 
         | As for the battery glued in - again, what did you switch into,
         | and how did it go? Aside from a few mishaps, Apple has the most
         | long lasting laptops on the market.
        
           | nequo wrote:
           | > Apple has the most long lasting laptops on the market.
           | 
           | I am not sure about this. I have a ThinkPad from ten years
           | ago that still runs up-to-date Linux.
        
           | bxparks wrote:
           | I agree that the iPads are the best of the breed out there,
           | and Apple does support their hardware longer than most. But
           | once the support stops, the hardware is locked and there's no
           | alternative.
           | 
           | So to answer some of the other questions that my post
           | generated, I basically stopped using tablets. The kitchen
           | tablet was replaced with a cheap Chromebook. My travel tablet
           | was replaced with a MacBook Air 11 2015 that I got on eBay,
           | and installed Linux Mint on it. I believe the 2015 MacBook
           | Air model is one of the last MacBooks with a replaceable
           | battery, and it is still one of the best 11" laptops ever
           | made.
           | 
           | My other laptops are a bunch of Dell Latitude 7000 series and
           | Dell Precision series laptops, running Ubuntu MATE or Linux
           | Mint. All of those have replaceable battery, upgradable RAM
           | slots, and replaceable SSD or NVMe slots. I cannot bring
           | myself to buy a laptop with a glued-in battery.
        
             | jamesgeck0 wrote:
             | > The kitchen tablet was replaced with a cheap Chromebook.
             | 
             | Chromebooks get eight years of security updates from
             | Google, similar to iPads. Is the attraction that you can
             | install a Linux distro on it after support ends?
        
             | kolinko wrote:
             | I just checked, and since a year ago Apple uses pull tabs
             | instead of glue - so the batteries are relatively easily
             | replaceable.
             | 
             | https://www.macrumors.com/2021/10/27/macbook-pro-battery-
             | pul...
             | 
             | As a side note though - how often do you replace batteries
             | in notebooks? I think the only one time I ever did it was
             | in 2008. I think most of my Macbooks survived over seven
             | years each, and were passed on to my family - the batteries
             | were never an issue - neither for me not for others who got
             | my laptops.
        
               | bxparks wrote:
               | Thanks for the info, that's good to know. I'll definitely
               | consider going back to the MacBooks when Linux on the
               | Apple Silicon chips becomes a reasonable option after
               | Apple drops support for these new laptops.
               | 
               | I get almost all my laptops from eBay, so I often replace
               | the batteries soon after purchase, then maybe every 3-5
               | years (?) after that. I replaced the battery on my 2014
               | MBA in 2020. I get the impression that I use my laptops
               | longer than average. My Windows 10 laptop is a 2011 model
               | with an Intel i7-2620M processor whose batteries have
               | been replaced twice.
        
             | mrtksn wrote:
             | What do you mean the hardware is locked once Apple cuts
             | support? Did the iPad stop working? Are you referring to
             | Apple services no longer working?
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | The last time I checked a couple of years ago. All Apple
               | services still worked on an old first gen iPad from 2010.
        
           | georgeecollins wrote:
           | My Windows laptops still get OS and software upgrades even
           | when they are ten years old. Why does a laptop or a tablet
           | have to be obsolete?
        
         | scarface74 wrote:
         | How is "trash"? Apple is still providing security updates for
         | devices back to 2013 and even without iOS updates, you can
         | still use third party apps that either support your OS or you
         | can download the "last compatible version" as of a couple of
         | years ago, I was able to redownload Netflix and a few other
         | apps on my original 2010 iPad.
        
         | graeme wrote:
         | Which ipads are you referring to? I have an ipad air 2 from
         | 2014. It just got 15.7, most recent update. That is eight years
         | of top line support.
         | 
         | It won't get ios 16, but apple has started supporting older
         | devices with security updates. Ios 12.5.6 supports devices from
         | 2013 that can't use ios 15.
         | 
         | https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT201222
         | 
         | Apple makes some of the longest supported hardware in the
         | business, and they've been lengthening their support. Their
         | incentive is to get more services revenue so they want the
         | largest userbase possible. I expect new devices will have at
         | least ten years support.
        
           | greggman3 wrote:
           | 8yrs is better than 4yrs but worse than 12, 20, 30yrs.
           | 
           | I get that in some ways tech is different (my rice cookers
           | still going, 60yrs) but in other ways it's not. My 2014 MBP
           | really has zero reason to become obsolete (they stopped
           | supporting it a year ago). It still functions just fine. It's
           | still plenty fast. There are no features of the 2021 MBP
           | missing from them 2014 MBP except at most USB-C ports.
        
             | r00fus wrote:
             | If you want your MBP from 2014 to run the latest OS
             | release, check out: https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-
             | Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.ht...
             | 
             | Honestly hoping for 12/20/30+ years of patches sounds super
             | nice but unreasonable.
             | 
             | My MacPlus from 1986 works fine, but I don't expect Apple
             | to provide MacOS7 patches.
        
               | asdff wrote:
               | Why not? Automakers recall cars and 'patch' them years
               | later.
        
               | MockObject wrote:
               | Their OS7 team would be larger than the number of OS7
               | users. It would be cheaper for Apple to send free Macs to
               | all the users than support the code anymore.
        
               | brewdad wrote:
               | What automaker is recalling and patching a 36 year old
               | vehicle? Heck, show me one that is patching a 10 year old
               | vehicle.
        
             | scarface74 wrote:
             | So you expect Apple to support the 2010 era iPad 1st
             | generation that had 256MB RAM and 400Mhz A4 in 2022?
             | 
             | Or do you expect Apple to support a 20 year old Mac?
             | 
             | Or do you expect Apple to support a 1992 era Mac LCII with
             | a 68030-16Mhz processor that came with at most a 10MB RAM
             | and a 80MB hard drive?
        
       | memco wrote:
       | The touch ID power button seems interesting: has that been in
       | other iOS devices or is that new?
        
       | ChildOfChaos wrote:
       | I have an old iPad pro (2017)
       | 
       | I like the fact that the base models are getting better, so in
       | future I'll likely just replace with the lower end iPad and still
       | get an upgrade, although the price seems to be slowly creeping
       | up.
        
         | e44858 wrote:
         | Funny thing is that the new iPad might actually be a downgrade
         | for you, because it has a cheaper screen with a lower refresh
         | rate (60hz instead of 120hz).
        
       | franze wrote:
       | I love my iPad. The best TV I ever owned.
        
       | gurumeditations wrote:
       | A $120 price increase for the base model? Unbelievable. Couldn't
       | keep the 5 year old $330 price forever but that's ridiculous at
       | the volumes Apple moves. All while we're going into recession and
       | consumer tech spend goes down...
        
         | WastingMyTime89 wrote:
         | The price in euros are even more ridiculous: 200EUR more the
         | base one and 100EUR more for the air because why not.
        
         | creeble wrote:
         | I'd have to agree. Just bought a used 7th-gen iPad for that
         | price difference.
        
       | twiceaday wrote:
       | The Gen 1 pencil has a tiny battery and is a chore to charge.
       | Mine is usually dead and I just write on paper. Not being able to
       | charge it wirelessly from the iPad was a huge UX mistake that
       | they quickly fixed with Gen 2. Can't believe they are still
       | holding on to Gen 1.
        
       | atommclain wrote:
       | It looks like the finally moved the camera to be on "top" when
       | the device is in landscape orientation.
        
       | gnicholas wrote:
       | Most surprising for me was the landscape-friendly selfie camera.
       | That will be very helpful for video calls. Also, they added USB-C
       | but I don't think it was mentioned explicitly in the intro video
       | (just noted in the final slide).
        
       | wslh wrote:
       | Please merge with: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33248210
        
         | wccrawford wrote:
         | That one doesn't seem to talk about the colors? Also, it's
         | about the Pro and this isn't.
        
         | st3ve445678 wrote:
         | That is about the pro, this is just regular iPad.
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | That would actually be a bit confusing since the iPad and iPad
         | Pro have different features, and comments in dedicated threads
         | don't distinguish which one is being described. Would have been
         | nice to have an omnibus thread from the beginning, but the way
         | Apple does their press releases resulted in two threads.
        
         | Maursault wrote:
         | iPad Pro and iPad are distinct models, so these two different
         | discussions are not redundant.
        
       | bsharitt wrote:
       | This certainly tightens up the iPad -> iPad Air -> iPad Pro line,
       | The Air -> Pro gap was already small(it widens a bit today with
       | the M2 Pro, but not by much), but the iPad -> Air decision was
       | between dated budget tablet or more full featured modern tablet,
       | but now it's a little less clear.
        
       | cpsns wrote:
       | A marginally updated iPad for the masses to buy, good I guess?
       | Hard to get excited, but I'm sure some will appreciate USBC.
        
       | nofunsir wrote:
       | I think the biggest part of this announcement is the fact that
       | for the first time an apple Magic Keyboard for iPad now comes
       | with an ESC key.
       | 
       | Could indicate future plans to support coding/sysadmin on an iPad
        
         | duxup wrote:
         | Many uses use an iPad as their version of a laptop.
         | 
         | Apple's own promotional materials show folks doing that.
         | 
         | I think this is all but certain.
        
         | srvmshr wrote:
         | FWIW, you can pair a regular Magic keyboard & Bluetooth mouse
         | to most iPads. The folio keyboard didn't have ESC (never owned
         | that, can't comment), but it didn't mean it wasn't physically
         | doable
        
           | pomatic wrote:
           | I have ESC mapped to the folio keyboard 'world' key in the
           | bottom left corner. It's a complete non-issue, pinky down
           | instead of pinky up.
        
             | Phrodo_00 wrote:
             | Yeah, I map caps lock to Esc in all my keyboards so I just
             | did the same in the folio.
        
             | williamcotton wrote:
             | As someone who hops between Ubuntu and macOS I can say
             | without a doubt that these subtle differences in key
             | locations are at least a minor issue!
        
             | nofunsir wrote:
             | Add that to the brain plasticity test list:
             | 
             | Lenovo laptops FN, CTRL
             | 
             | Dell laptops CTRL, FN
             | 
             | Select business Lenovo laptops: CTRL, FN
             | 
             | Logitech dual OS keyboards
             | 
             | Using the mac keyboard via Universal Control ...
        
           | nofunsir wrote:
           | >go find your bluetooth keyboard, make sure it's charged, and
           | think about putting it in my bag
           | 
           | At which point I usually just grab my PC instead
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | tiffanyh wrote:
         | I wonder if Apple is trying to go after the educational market
         | to have iPad purchased instead of Chromebook's.
        
           | cududa wrote:
           | That's been a huge market for them forever. They routinely
           | mention education, do education events, and have large
           | educational discounts. Prior to today's announcement, 9th gen
           | iPad in a 10 pack is $294 ($329 retail), with larger volume
           | discounts available. I suspect this list will be updated and
           | the price will go down further.
           | 
           | Having briefly worked in a school district's IT department,
           | cheap plastic laptops in kids hands break frequently.
           | Accorind to this price sheet it's $429 for for 4 years of
           | AppleCare+ (no service fee, covers accidental damage) and
           | comes with a ruggidized logitech case + keyboard.
           | 
           | One buddy that runs an extremely large school district IT
           | department (can't remember if it's shy of 200,000 students +
           | staff, or over 200k) had to hire an entire fulltime staff to
           | do repairs and keep tons of replacement parts on hand (bits
           | of plastic on the palm wrest, hinges, trackpads, keyboards,
           | screens, charging ports they replace/ solder in house,
           | chargers, etc). He did the math and with the 4 years of no-
           | cost replacements the purchase will have paid for itself by
           | year 2 and in year 3 and 4 have millions in budget surplus.
           | Parents/ tax payers revolted and couldn't see why kids need
           | iPads.
           | 
           | To your main point though, from the earliest days of the Mac
           | (1984), Apple actually used to subsidize/ take a loss on Macs
           | for k-12 with the theory that if you get kids on Macs young,
           | they become lifelong customers.
           | 
           | https://www.apple.com/education/pricelists/pdfs/Apple_US_Edu.
           | ..
        
           | briffle wrote:
           | My kids school pays a bit under $200 each for their
           | chromebooks...
        
             | tiffanyh wrote:
             | Great point.
             | 
             | Chromebook's cost less than some of the keyboards Apple
             | sells for their iPad.
             | 
             | https://www.apple.com/shop/select-ipad-keyboards
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2022-10-18 23:02 UTC)