[HN Gopher] iPad Pro M2
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       iPad Pro M2
        
       Author : doerig
       Score  : 259 points
       Date   : 2022-10-18 14:56 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
        
       | asimpletune wrote:
       | The convergence between iPad and Mac is pretty brilliant. If you
       | think about it, the iPad now has a lot of features that are much
       | better than a top of the line Mac, like 5g and the display tech.
       | 
       | It's all still too new but if you read the tea leaves we are
       | heading towards a convergence. In the future there will be a
       | device that behaves like an iPad on its own. With an app and
       | touch oriented experience, but when connected to a keyboard and
       | mouse will be like a Mac today. The universal app stuff is a
       | great indicator of them moving in that direction, even if it's
       | still new.
       | 
       | One thing I don't really understand though is how a Unix
       | interface will work with a device that is also iPad OS. Like, if
       | you can install stuff from online, eg through home brew, will you
       | be able to side load apps? If that's the case I think the app
       | experience might suffer, but at the same time if the Unix
       | experience has its wings clipped then what do they plan to
       | replace it with?
       | 
       | I mean that sincerely. I don't think apple is so naive as to
       | think they can make macs into iPads and not provide an
       | alternative. Maybe they'll offer a native package manager, one
       | that's even reverse compatible with brew as a starting point, and
       | then provide an integrated notary process as part of that system
       | for publishing recipes.
        
       | Veliladon wrote:
       | Still can't believe the M2 chip is hobbled with Stage Manager.
       | 
       | Dear Apple,
       | 
       | I want my iPad to become a Finder based full-fat macOS when it's
       | on the Magic Keyboard and I want it to be Springboard when I take
       | it off the Magic Keyboard.
       | 
       | Make it happen already.
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | Dear Apple,
         | 
         | Please don't listen to Veliladon. Keep the iPad as it's own
         | thing. In fact, make it more iPad-y and less Mac-y.
         | 
         | If I want a Mac, I'll buy a Mac.
        
         | williamcotton wrote:
         | It feels so close, doesn't it? My biggest gripe is that iOS
         | doesn't have proper support for external displays.
        
           | etchalon wrote:
           | iOS 16 fixes that.
        
             | wlesieutre wrote:
             | Not in the initial release. They pulled external display
             | support from Stage Manager in later betas to get it working
             | on older models with the A12X and A12Z instead of only the
             | M1 and newer.
             | 
             | External display support is supposed to come back in an
             | update later this year. Presumably that part will still
             | require an M1 or newer processor.
        
               | twobitshifter wrote:
               | as an ipad mini owner, i selfishly hope they make it work
               | on the a15 as well. I don't know how unfavorably that
               | chip compares to the a12z, but it seems very fast on the
               | ipad mini.
        
             | madeofpalk wrote:
             | Not any more lol
        
             | shadowfacts wrote:
             | Proper external display support was pulled from the initial
             | release of iPadOS 16 because it was super buggy.
             | 
             | From the press release: > Full external display support for
             | Stage Manager on M1 and M2 iPad models will be available in
             | a software update later this year.
        
         | Someone wrote:
         | That could end up being a two-headed monster, with some apps
         | working fine in 'iPad mode' and looking awfully out of place in
         | 'Finder mode' and other ones looking good in 'Finder mode' and
         | bad in 'iPad mode'.
         | 
         | Unless (almost) all their apps (including third-party ones)
         | would seamlessly switch from a mouse-driven MacOS UI to a
         | pen/finger drive iPad UI, I think most users would be
         | disappointed with that.
        
         | evilduck wrote:
         | Hell, just give access to the Hypervisor framework now that
         | M1/M2 chips natively support virtualization. I would gladly use
         | a macOS or Linux VM on an iPad if it didn't require constant
         | workarounds. UTM is ready it just needs the App Store barrier
         | removed.
         | 
         | As a user experience it's no less jarring than GeForce Now,
         | XBox remote play, Steam Link, Plex, VNC apps, iSH, Blink, etc.
        
         | orangecat wrote:
         | _I want my iPad to become a Finder based full-fat macOS when it
         | 's on the Magic Keyboard_
         | 
         | And Apple doesn't want you running unapproved software so
         | that's never going to happen unless macOS gets a lockdown mode
         | (only app store apps, no terminal or Unix access, etc).
        
         | NegativeLatency wrote:
         | Bought an iPad earlier this year hoping to take some of the
         | responsibilities off of my 2015 MPB, and it's really just a
         | media consumption device.
         | 
         | Hard to admin my home server, program, etc on an iPad, even
         | though it has a much faster processor and way better battery
         | life.
         | 
         | I realize this is a bit of a niche usecase but apple shipping a
         | Terminal.app for iOS/iPadOS would be a game changer.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | fooblaster wrote:
         | I don't think apple will implement something like this if it
         | cannibalizes sales of a higher end product with more profit
         | margin. I wouldn't expect a feature like this until there is a
         | ipad sold for the price of a MacBook pro plus an ipad(e.g ipad
         | super pro for 2000$).
        
         | lupire wrote:
         | Apple doesn't want non-artists to buy iPad Pro instead of
         | MacBook. They want people to buy both.
        
           | traceroute66 wrote:
           | > Apple doesn't want non-artists to buy iPad Pro instead of
           | MacBook. They want people to buy both.
           | 
           | I see the resident Apple bashers are already warming up their
           | cannons firing a few rounds.
           | 
           | But perhaps we need to take a step back here for a moment....
           | 
           | First you need to consider the security and general platform
           | profile of iOS which is fundamentally different from MacOS.
           | Running MacOS would greatly weaken the iOS security profile
           | of Apple mobile devices, and you have to remember that the
           | devices are not just used by consumers but they are used
           | widely in the corporate world too. iOS loaded with corporate
           | apps is a much more attractive security footprint for
           | corporate IT departments. Personally speaking, I very much
           | like the tightened security footprint of iOS. I wouldn't want
           | to run full-blown MacOS on my phone or tablet, even if I
           | could !
           | 
           | Second, prior to Apple silicon, non-mobile hardware ran on
           | Intel. So Apple were justifiably technically constrained by
           | that fact. However, if you observe Apple today though, you
           | can see MacOS on Apple Silicon allows you to install
           | iPhone/iPad apps simply by downloading them from the App
           | store as you would on an Apple mobile device. I would argue
           | therefore that with time, we may see further blurring of
           | boundaries in both directions.
        
             | animsriv wrote:
             | This gives me an idea for an iPad like device with dual
             | booted MacOS and iOS, and isolated storages for the
             | security concerns. Best of both worlds!
        
               | jzig wrote:
               | It could even run on the same M2 and other hardware. Just
               | make two partitions on the SSD.
        
           | MuffinFlavored wrote:
           | I'm trying to calculate in my head why I (a non-artist) want
           | a tablet with the foldable keyboard thingie instead of a
           | laptop...
        
             | minhazm wrote:
             | I (non-artist) use my iPad + magic keyboard as my primary
             | non-work computer. The battery life is great, it's instant
             | on, has a touch screen, you can play games on it, and it's
             | more portable than a laptop being 11 inches. In general it
             | makes for a great every day device. The only things I don't
             | try to do on my iPad is anything programming related.
        
             | unethical_ban wrote:
             | I have a friend who bought one to replace her aging laptop
             | with the iPad pro. She wanted it for the touchscreen to
             | navigate and touch up photos (but not via pencil really).
             | But she does also use it often for spreadsheets and email
             | as well, and since you can have multiple apps side by side
             | now, it works for her. She does this at her work
             | environment which doesn't have space for say, dual screens
             | or an office, so it makes sense for her.
        
           | lvl102 wrote:
           | I see this comment often. I just find it comical that people
           | really think they know what goes on inside of Apple product
           | meetings. Ipad Pro 12" is as expensive as a Macbook. Perhaps
           | Apple doesn't want people to use full MacOS on an 11" screen
           | because it's not as usable as you think it is...Apple is not
           | out to blindly maximize its profit at all times.
        
             | llampx wrote:
             | Apple used to sell a Macbook Air 11" and a Macbook 12"
        
               | sbuk wrote:
               | " _used_ to sell " being the key phrase there.
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | Yeah, I don't really know who Apple is hoping to sell these to.
         | My ex-boyfriend bought one of the earlier iPad Pros with some
         | grand ambitions, but he mostly ended up using it for Netflix,
         | Twitter and emails. I think that _totally legitimizes_ the
         | existence of the smaller /cheaper models, but who is Apple
         | selling these to in the long-term? Even the mediocre Surface
         | Pro has a decent software experience that explains why someone
         | might continue spending extra on it. But I don't know who the
         | iPad Pro is for, especially these souped-up models. 120hz is
         | nice, but... who the hell is going to need or even _appreciate_
         | a high-refresh rate on an iPad? I reckon most  "pros" would be
         | happier if they sacked the high refresh and upgraded the panel
         | to a 60hz OLED one.
         | 
         | I'm just spitballing though. The iPad probably won't make sense
         | for most of us until it's discontinued or they add macOS to it,
         | whichever comes first.
        
           | Spivak wrote:
           | iPad Pro has a strong foothold in digital art. Not having to
           | learn how to split brain with a Wacom is a game changer and
           | there aren't many competitors in the space that aren't
           | wayyyyy more expensive.
        
           | vlunkr wrote:
           | > but who is Apple selling these to in the long-term?
           | 
           | I've thought this about every iPad model they've made, but
           | obviously I'm wrong every time. I'm sure there are specific
           | professionals who will find this useful, but in my guess is
           | that most iPads are sold for casual use. As to why you would
           | buy the higher-end model, because if you're in the market for
           | an iPad, you probably have disposable income, you might as
           | well get the shiniest one you can.
        
           | jessriedel wrote:
           | The extra 2 inches of screen can be a reason to get a Pro,
           | but I agree it's unclear why they both to put in so much
           | horsepower.
        
             | selykg wrote:
             | as an avid comic book reader, the 12.9" iPad Pro is
             | _perfect_ for reading comics, you don't have to zoom in or
             | out at all and you can simply read. The 11" model might be
             | fine too but I've only ever used the 12.9" model. It's
             | slightly oversized, like the treatment some of the deluxe
             | hardcover graphic novels get, and it's absolutely glorious
             | to be able to read without zooming in.
             | 
             | I'd love to get a newer iPad, but the price is bananas for
             | me given the use case. I bought the pre-2018 model and it's
             | still holding on but I'm going to be bummed when this one
             | reaches the end of it's usable life due to software updates
             | and such because I can't afford (or, justify maybe) one of
             | the newer models.
        
               | taude wrote:
               | I think the 11" is too small for comics. I typically have
               | to zoom in, or use the mode that managaes the zooming in
               | and scrolling for you.
        
               | Larrikin wrote:
               | What do you use to read comics? When I was looking into
               | it some months back the best readers of the past were all
               | unmaintained and didn't work properly and the newer apps
               | wanted to charge me a monthly fee to read comics from
               | local storage with no option to buy.
        
               | selykg wrote:
               | I use Chunky. It still works great.
               | 
               | I've heard Panels is decent as well.
        
               | yamtaddle wrote:
               | > as an avid comic book reader, the 12.9" iPad Pro is
               | _perfect_ for reading comics, you don't have to zoom in
               | or out at all and you can simply read.
               | 
               | The really cool thing about this, for those who haven't
               | tried, is that in landscape mode the 12.9" is _really
               | really close_ to the same size as a two-page comic
               | spread, so you can read them like they were intended, not
               | one page at a time. It 's a _little_ smaller, but not
               | much. Makes a huge difference vs. page-at-a-time reading.
               | 
               | (I use Chunky, which is amazing and I wish the author
               | charged money for it or had more options to pay them than
               | one mostly-unnecessary and really-cheap IAP, because it's
               | _really_ good and I never want it to go away)
        
           | npc54321 wrote:
        
           | caycep wrote:
           | There's a good local wedding photographer here who edits 90%
           | of her commercial work on her iPad Pro now
        
             | dirheist wrote:
             | Surely the full version of Adobe Lightroom on a mac would
             | offer more features than the ipad?
        
               | imwillofficial wrote:
               | Not every feature is used. Most use a tiny subset of
               | available features.
               | 
               | That makes the iPad fill many many use cases.
               | 
               | I can do about 80% of my work on my iPad
        
               | wil421 wrote:
               | They have Photoshop on the iPad and Adobe says it's
               | "built with a no compromise in quality and performance".
               | Which means buggy as any Adobe product but useable. It
               | really can't get worse than Lightroom on an older intel
               | Mac. An iPad Pro M1 also beat a MBP 16" with an i9 in
               | Geekbench for multi core.
               | 
               | Video editing is also crazy good on an iPad Pro and
               | iPhones.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | Well, video editing is crazy _fast_ on iPad and iPhone,
               | that doesn 't make it _good_. Apple goes above-and-beyond
               | building hardware accelerators into their GPU for video
               | content, but the form factor of the iPhone /iPad is
               | considerably worse than editing with a Macbook. I feel
               | the same way about music production on iOS - the hardware
               | is willing, but the software is weak.
        
               | musictubes wrote:
               | Apparently they don't need all those extra features 90%
               | of the time. The ipad in conjunction with the pencil is a
               | very powerful photo editing tool.
        
               | blairbeckwith wrote:
               | Probably why she only edits 90% of her work on iPad. I
               | think there's a huge percentage of non-developers who are
               | exactly in this boat - can do 90% of their work on an
               | iPad, and enjoy that experience, but keep a traditional
               | computer around for the 10%.
        
           | CharlesW wrote:
           | > _120hz is nice, but... who the hell is going to need or
           | even appreciate a high-refresh rate on an iPad?_
           | 
           | This is a notable differentiator that's easy to see and feel
           | for iPad users. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otlDSjAq2hI
           | 
           | > _Yeah, I don 't really know who Apple is hoping to sell
           | these to. [...] The iPad probably won't make sense for most
           | of us until it's discontinued or they add macOS to it,
           | whichever comes first._
           | 
           | Apple knows who they're selling to. Apple's iPad dominates
           | the global tablet market (along with Samsung and Amazon), so
           | there's evidence that it's made sense for its target market
           | for some time now.
        
             | smoldesu wrote:
             | > This is a notable differentiator that's easy to see and
             | feel for iPad users.
             | 
             | I agree. We're talking about a device that _most people_
             | use to watch video though, so they 're not going to really
             | be revving it beyond 24hz.
             | 
             | 120hz screens are great, but if I didn't play first-person
             | shooters with my friends then I'd have no reason to use
             | mine. Like I said, an OLED panel makes _much_ more sense
             | for the iPad, and _arguably_ the Macbook Pro.
        
               | CharlesW wrote:
               | > _We 're talking about a device that_ most people _use
               | to watch video though, so they 're not going to really be
               | revving it beyond 24hz._
               | 
               | Interesting. I don't use my iPad for video much, but I'm
               | going to assume you're right and I'm in the minority. In
               | that case, a nice benefit for cinephiles is that 120 Hz
               | is an integer multiple of 24 Hz, while 60 Hz is not.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | 60hz is an integer multiple of 24hz when you use LTPO
               | displays, like the ones offered with OLED panels.
        
           | hoistbypetard wrote:
           | I have a 2018 iPad pro with a pencil and keyboard, and I love
           | it. It's good for:
           | 
           | * Working on game assets using the Affinity tools (Designer
           | and Photo)
           | 
           | * Second monitor for my Mac when I'm not at my desk
           | 
           | * Chat/videoconference tool, leaving me able to use my
           | computer during virtual meetings
           | 
           | * Travel machine. I can do most of my office-y stuff on it,
           | and use it to ssh into production things. Gitpod lets me do
           | some light coding from there in a pinch, but if I'm planning
           | on a lot of that I usually just carry the Macbook. Because a
           | portable rig with two monitors is damn nice for writing code.
           | 
           | * Reading and annotating PDFs
           | 
           | * Documentation viewing while writing code
           | 
           | * General reading
           | 
           | * Using a square reader to process payments
           | 
           | I suspect that this will likely easily be replaced by a
           | current Air when the time comes, but it's easily useful
           | enough for me to want it. And when you consider that the ASUS
           | portable monitors run in the $300-400 range, and the Wacoms
           | are around $600, I don't feel like I'm severely overpaying.
        
           | seanmcdirmid wrote:
           | I bought a 2G ipad pro and it was very useful as just a
           | writing tablet. Unlimited paper, though I had to get a paper-
           | like screen protector since otherwise their wasn't enough
           | friction between the screen and the pen to make me happy.
           | 
           | I'm disappointed there aren't more pen-based programming
           | experiences out there, but I can't really think of any useful
           | ones myself either.
        
             | shagie wrote:
             | For writing, have you checked out the remarkable? (
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24295443 )
             | 
             | It's an e-ink display with paper like friction and if you
             | really want to, you can shell into the linux system it runs
             | on.
        
               | schaefer wrote:
               | I'm not the op, but I am a "pen based note taking
               | enthusiast".
               | 
               | I have owned both a gen 1 remarkable, and an older iPad
               | Pro. In my opinion, the remarkable is garbage in
               | comparison. The note taking app is just so far behind.
               | And cross platform seems it's never going to happen.
               | 
               | My note taking app of choice is always: write, by stylus
               | labs. It's wonderful, and really expresses what I hoped
               | pen based writing would always be. Especially the undo-
               | wheel. For quickly scrolling back a whole word or
               | sentence. But the real killer here is that it's cross
               | platform. I can move the notes to the native Linux app or
               | the native windows app.
               | 
               | That having been said, I am forever annoyed that I can't
               | run Xcode on either Linux or my $1000+ iPad. Also, on the
               | iPad, there are ridiculous restrictions in how you are
               | allowed to run apps side by side in split screen.
               | 
               | /sigh
               | 
               | So the race for the good pen note taking device is still
               | on for me.
               | 
               | I have hope that soon the Pine Note will take off and
               | allow me to finally run write by stylus labs on a
               | platform with development tools. In this case Linux.
               | 
               | Again, Apple could win me back by opening access to dev
               | tools. Either in the iPad itself or cross platform on
               | Linux/windows--or by allowing me to install macOS on the
               | iPad.
               | 
               | Remarkable could win me back by opening the platform and
               | allowing my to install write by stylus labs.
               | 
               | Dell or Lenovo could win the race by shipping a 2-in-1
               | with a current generation processor and Linux officially
               | supported, and preferably pre installed.
               | 
               | But it honestly looks like pine 64 is out in front in
               | this race.
        
               | hoistbypetard wrote:
               | Have you tried the Pine Note? As someone who really likes
               | Pine 64, and has a PineBook Pro along with a couple of
               | Pine Time watches in my device petting zoo, it's worth
               | pointing out that when they say something is only
               | suitable for early adopters, they *really* mean it.
               | 
               | Make no mistake. Their stuff is great. But I'm not buying
               | something they tell me is for early adopters unless I
               | want to write code for it and use JTAG to load that code,
               | possibly with a handbuilt wiring harness.
        
               | schaefer wrote:
               | I haven't tried the Pine Note (yet).
               | 
               | Like you, I'm willing to take Pine64 at their word that
               | they are still "crowdsourcing system level software". I
               | am eagerly awaiting their monthly blog update/podcast.
               | Tragically, last month's update didn't happen. So, we've
               | all been a little in the dark.
        
               | shagie wrote:
               | > Remarkable could win me back by opening the platform
               | and allowing my to install write by stylus labs.
               | 
               | It's linux under the cover that you can connect to if you
               | know the password (in the settings).
               | 
               | There's a whole bunch of apps that you can side load into
               | it.
               | 
               | https://github.com/reHackable/awesome-reMarkable
               | 
               | I'm not sure there's anything preventing you from
               | installing write by stylus labs other than that no one
               | appears to have ported it to the device.
        
               | schaefer wrote:
               | There is an Arm Linux build of "Write" right here [1].
               | I'm curious if it would work on the remarkable as is.
               | 
               | I've never side loaded anything on the remarkable, but...
               | I do own one.. so it's worth dusting it off and trying.
               | 
               | Thanks again for the link to the reHackable repo. Hacker
               | News threads seem to cool off quick, but if I have any
               | luck, I'll report back here.
               | 
               | [1]: http://www.styluslabs.com/faq
        
               | seanmcdirmid wrote:
               | The reason the iPad Pro works so great for writing is the
               | 120Hz refresh. I don't think we will see that in an e-ink
               | system anytime soon, but I can always dream.
        
           | wlesieutre wrote:
           | I have a 2018 model and love the 12.9" screen size for media,
           | note taking, reading, sketching, etc.
           | 
           | That said if they made a cheaper version with a 12.9" screen
           | I would have bought that instead. I don't do anything that
           | needs a desktop class processor.
           | 
           | Artists do love the performance though, people use them for
           | video editing or large image editing with lots of layers.
           | 
           | Edit to add - 12.9" is also helpful for using two apps in
           | splitscreen. Might become less important with Stage Manager,
           | we'll see how I like that.
        
             | smoldesu wrote:
             | That's what I don't really understand, though. Even the
             | artists and video editors who use these devices aren't
             | _actually_ leveraging all of the power in the machine.
             | Photo editors and artists are mostly still constrained by
             | single-core performance, and video editors are mostly just
             | leveraging the GPU 's video accelerators. The "full power"
             | of the M1 or M2 doesn't even make sense for these pro
             | customers.
             | 
             | That's why I still think an "iPad Max" makes much more
             | sense. Even to professionals, the iPad is ultimately a
             | content consumption device. So, Apple ought to lean into
             | that. Make an iPad _you_ can love with a big screen and
             | punchy OLED panel, while cutting back on the CPU cores to
             | optimize for battery life and thermals. Even if they never
             | put Stage Manager on it and ditched the LIDAR camera, I
             | think these things would sell like hotcakes at the right
             | price.
        
               | garyfirestorm wrote:
               | I think you are underestimating the power of pencil
               | combined with Letter sized screen for people who read
               | research papers, take notes and need entertainment when
               | traveling - potentially entire higher ed students. I just
               | bought an M1 iPad Pro last week and I am impressed with
               | how easy it is to navigate and annotate pdf documents
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | I don't think I do. I used to own a Surface Pro with
               | their Surface Pen, basically the same experience and I
               | used it for everything from reading manuals to flipping
               | comic book pages. It was great, but none of it's
               | greatness was predicated by "the power" of it's chip. The
               | iPad Pro would be equally as attractive if it used the
               | base-model chip and ditched the LIDAR nonsense, _and_ it
               | would be cheaper.
        
               | CPLX wrote:
               | This just has to be a big use case. There's a very large
               | community of wealthy people who are extensive business
               | travelers and their core job description is reading and
               | marking up documents on the road.
               | 
               | Think lawyers, finance, basically anyone doing "deals" is
               | in this category. As someone with about 3 million
               | frequent flier miles lying around I've seen a whole lot
               | of them in airports.
               | 
               | I have one too. Big screen, thin profile can be used in
               | an airplane seat or wherever, has a cell connection so
               | you don't need to fuss with wifi to send back comments on
               | something quickly.
               | 
               | It's really a great application for these things. Agreed
               | that the processor might be overkill but also who cares,
               | when you live on the road and shit depends on you, you
               | just max out all the choices and press the order button.
        
               | cj wrote:
               | > Agreed that the processor might be overkill but also
               | who cares
               | 
               | Lower income consumers who would appreciate lower prices.
               | 
               | Apple is a multi-trillion dollar company at this point.
               | The only way for them to grow another 50% from where they
               | are today is through mass market adoption by regular
               | people.
               | 
               | Or maybe these high end devices aren't meant to drive
               | revenue as much as they are meant to keep power users
               | happy while focusing on other revenue streams for
               | meaningful revenue growth.
        
               | gomox wrote:
               | What app do you use for this? I'm constantly appalled at
               | how hard this seemingly basic use case is.
        
               | garyfirestorm wrote:
               | Try Foxit pdf - it even lets you crop and apply it to all
               | pages in a pdf.
        
             | tshaddox wrote:
             | > That said if they made a cheaper version with a 12.9"
             | screen I would have bought that instead.
             | 
             | I bet you can find used ones for much cheaper. I still love
             | my aging 2nd generation 12.9" iPad Pro from 2017. Of course
             | we would all love products even more if they were cheaper,
             | law of demand and all that.
        
             | yamtaddle wrote:
             | > That said if they made a cheaper version with a 12.9"
             | screen I would have bought that instead. I don't do
             | anything that needs a desktop class processor.
             | 
             | This right here. I literally only buy them for the screen
             | size, and because Android tablets are... really bad and
             | largely have much worse (for my purposes) software
             | available, even if I could find one in that size.
             | 
             | I never really push the processor or graphics capabilities.
             | 
             | The screen size is incredible for: PDF reading, drawing and
             | art generally, a little video editing maybe, sheet music
             | display and other music purposes, comic book reading, as a
             | portable second screen for a Macbook (it's a very similar
             | size to a 13" Macbook screen), portable SSH terminal,
             | remote desktop, and yeah, watching Netflix or whatever.
             | 
             | But I could easily get by with the brains of a much lower-
             | end model. _However_ , I expect the larger, higher-quality
             | (for faster refresh for drawing and such) screen is a big
             | chunk of their cost to manufacture it, so I'm not sure how
             | much cheaper such a thing would really be.
             | 
             | I truly don't even know what I _might_ do with one that 'd
             | really _use_ all that horsepower. Gaming I guess? But I don
             | 't like my games vanishing or breaking when I update an OS,
             | so I don't game on iOS very much. Pinball and (now that
             | it's been re-released, finally) Angry Birds. That's about
             | it.
        
               | wlesieutre wrote:
               | At the most general level, it does run a
               | 2732-by-2048-pixel display at perfectly smooth 120 hz,
               | and that looks _great_ with the Pencil. But I 'd give
               | that up to save a couple hundred bucks.
               | 
               | The main bummer with the base iPad display is that it's
               | still using sRGB, while Apple has been using P3 gamut
               | pretty much everywhere else since the iPhone 7. Not sure
               | if I'd downgrade to that one, but I'd be fine with a
               | 12.9" iPad Air.
        
           | musictubes wrote:
           | iPad Pro is amazing for audio, photography, and of course art
           | creation. I am just starting to dip my toes into the audio
           | world and the number and quality of soft synths, sequencers,
           | effects, mixers, etc. is actually breathtaking. The ipad is
           | especially useful when used in conjunction with physical
           | instruments and live performance. A regular laptop isn't
           | nearly as nice to use in the moment. Suzanne Ciani uses the
           | Animoog Z app on her ipad along with her $20k+ Buchla Modular
           | synthesizer rig during live performances. I have also been
           | enjoying live streams from Pittsburgh Modular. He uses an
           | ipad for sequencing and effects along with the hardware
           | synths.
           | 
           | Having a more powerful ipad allows more and more
           | sophisticated tools to be made for it. Apple brings the
           | capability and developers take advantage.
        
           | 314 wrote:
           | I have the original (from 2014?) and it is still in use every
           | day. I bought it for sketching but never really used it for
           | that too much. For note taking (with a pen) it has been in
           | use every day. I used to go through stacks of notepads and it
           | was nice to replace them with a digital tool as it makes
           | storage and retrieval much easier. It was an extravagant
           | purchase at the time, but $1100 has started to look
           | relatively after 8(?) years of use.
        
           | diebeforei485 wrote:
           | The miniLED display on the 12.9" is great.
           | 
           | I know that iPads are used in the architecture/construction
           | industry for example. AutoCAD has some products that came out
           | of the PlanGrid acquisition.
        
       | xfalcox wrote:
       | I would love a way to enable Safari DevTools on this device so I
       | could use it to debug iOS specific quirks instead of needing an
       | Apple laptop.
        
         | candiddevmike wrote:
         | Get a Mac Mini, stick it in a closet and VNC into it, that's
         | what I do.
        
           | xfalcox wrote:
           | Then you emulate iOS on it to debug iOS Safari? Is it fast
           | enough?
        
             | candiddevmike wrote:
             | Yea, it works well and is plenty fast on a LAN (remote may
             | be laggy). Some things you can't test using emulators,
             | namely App Store stuff I believe, and you need to screw
             | with the resolution/scaling so you can read the text.
             | 
             | I threw a GitHub runner on mine so I can do iOS builds from
             | it.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | duxup wrote:
           | Yeah I would think a Mini would be a better use case than a
           | whole laptop.
        
         | agrippanux wrote:
         | If you are needing it for web dev, the Inspect browser on iOS
         | works great for that purpose. It is annoying you have to pay
         | $10 for something that should be built in.
        
           | liminalsunset wrote:
           | There is also one called literally "Web Inspector" from "And
           | a Dinosaur" or something which I believe is free and a Safari
           | extension which pops up devtools on my iPhone
        
           | xfalcox wrote:
           | Is that a paid extension?
        
       | crims0n wrote:
       | Interesting, if only incremental update. The hardware far
       | outpacing the software continues.
        
       | dekhn wrote:
       | Is anybody hooking up a keyboard and mouse to their ipad pro and
       | using it as an interface to a remote desktop running in the
       | cloud? If so, what software stack?
        
         | skazazes wrote:
         | code-server https://github.com/coder/code-server works fairly
         | well and can be saved to the home screen as a web applet to get
         | rid of the browser URL bar. Their are a few UI issues related
         | to touch but it has served well enough for some light work.
         | 
         | You can also use a remote apps like Rainway/TeamViewer/RDP/VNC
         | somewhat successfully to get a more full desktop experience.
         | Unfortunately they all seem to have their own input caveats
         | that take some getting used to.
         | 
         | I am personally waiting for Parsec to release native iPadOS and
         | tvOS clients as it provides the best experience I have found.
         | 
         | It seems like the gaming oriented remote desktop apps (Rainway
         | https://rainway.com/, Parsec https://parsec.app/) are the best
         | though as the latency on the more traditional ones is somewhat
         | of a hindrance.
         | 
         | USB/Bluetooth keyboard and mouse support tends to work okay,
         | but the simulated touch mouse makes getting used to things
         | tough. If you have not tried using iPad OS with a mouse I
         | suggest you look into before making a purchase as it is a
         | fairly limiting experience.
        
           | dekhn wrote:
           | Thanks. I wodner if you could tether an ipad and raspberry pi
           | running Code (which isn't really RDP, but a web app that
           | includes a shell) in a fairly self-contained way.
        
       | bwanab wrote:
       | Maybe it's my bias as a musician, but as long as Apple doesn't
       | put Logic on the iPad, it's just not a system that works as a
       | piece of professional kit.
        
       | elzbardico wrote:
       | You need to really need to a use touchscreen and/or a pen to
       | justify such an extravagance.
        
         | tshaddox wrote:
         | Or you just prefer the form factor overall to a similarly-
         | priced MacBook. I much prefer my 12.9" iPad Pro (I have a 2nd
         | generation one, from way back in 2017) over a comparable
         | MacBook Air. This new iPad Pro is a tempting upgrade for me,
         | although my 2017 device is still working fine which does make
         | the expense difficult to justify.
        
         | idontpost wrote:
        
       | user3939382 wrote:
       | I like how it says
       | 
       | > Wi-Fi 6E and 5G
       | 
       | So 10Gb and then as an example directly under it shows a news
       | article with a couple small images in it lol. Personally what I'm
       | really waiting for is 40 Gb to load my news articles.
        
       | knolan wrote:
       | I'm probably going to get the 12.9" model. I'm a lecturer and
       | it'll be very useful for my teaching. Not so much for research
       | where I'm working with stuff like Matlab and OpenFOAM and
       | specialist Windows software for laboratory instruments.
       | 
       | Currently I use my Mac and occasionally sidecar with an old 10.5"
       | iPad Pro so I can annotate my mirrored slides while I go. It
       | works but is awkward. When using a projector over HDMI it's
       | energy intensive so I need to bring along my Mac's power brick.
       | Often the display scaling from connecting to the room projector
       | will offset my pencil position, the order you connect stuff seems
       | to matter.
       | 
       | I teach a combination of slides and Jupyter notebooks so I need
       | to verify that everything works as expected.
       | 
       | I could try to use a lightning to HDMI adapter and leave the Mac
       | in my office, but I'm also interested in the LiDAR scanner for
       | some research activities.
       | 
       | I also find the iPad great for bringing along to meetings and
       | labs where you want to sketch stuff out, you can email the result
       | to a student after.
       | 
       | I find it a useful tool for class prep also.
       | 
       | So it's not a replacement for my laptop, but it'll help me with a
       | significant part of my day to day activities.
        
         | dubya wrote:
         | The iPad with pencil is really useful for marking up student
         | papers. I bought one during Covid when everything was being
         | turned in online, but some students still prefer to turn in
         | scans rather than paper.
         | 
         | The downside is that Apple doesn't support user accounts, so I
         | won't use anything that everyone in my family shouldn't have
         | access to. Grading only works because it's easy to log out of
         | Canvas. A lot of the nifty features require you to be logged in
         | with your Apple ID, and I'm just not buying an iPad for every
         | family member who might like to use it sometimes.
        
       | doerig wrote:
       | From the press release: "The 11-inch iPad Pro starts at $799 (US)
       | for the Wi-Fi model and $999 (US) for the Wi-Fi + Cellular model;
       | the 12.9-inch iPad Pro starts at $1,099 (US) for the Wi-Fi model,
       | and $1,299 (US) for the Wi-Fi + Cellular model."
        
       | turndown wrote:
       | Have an M1 iPad Pro 12.9 inch with the Magic Keyboard and Pencil.
       | Obviously won't be upgrading any time soon(like 4-5 years
       | minimum) and pray Apple understands that users want significantly
       | improved OS software out of the box. Everything I've seen marks
       | this as a disappointing software update, especially Stage
       | Manager.
        
       | Insanity wrote:
       | I have seen some discussions on this post about the use of iPad
       | Pro as a device for actual work, so I will chime in with my
       | experience.
       | 
       | First of, I love the iPad Pro and have been using it for about a
       | year almost daily. I use it for leisure as well as actual work. I
       | am currently writing a technical book, and I decided to do it all
       | on my iPad. I hook up my external keyboard and the Mx Master
       | mouse is paired to both my MacBook and iPad, so I can easily
       | switch.
       | 
       | I initially thought that I would not really like it, but ended up
       | using it as my preferred to device for such work. I can easily
       | sketch things in GoodNotes, and writing with the pen helps me
       | think. I use Termius to ssh into my development machine when I
       | need to write some code, and I use Word to write the text
       | content. I also use the GitHub app although that doesn't work
       | perfectly so I use the web version as well.
       | 
       | I hardly ever use split screen, so each app is essentially in
       | distraction_free mode. I also notice that I get side tracked way
       | less (no slack, email, or other distractions which I check often
       | on my MacBook). Plus when travelling I only take my iPad now, I
       | worked from airports and hotels only on this device.
       | 
       | I was definitely sceptical about it, but ended up loving it. It
       | actually made me reconsider buying a new macbook, and at this
       | point I would rather upgrade my iPad than buy the new MacBook
       | anyway.
       | 
       | (It is also a great leisure device, depending on what you do. I
       | have Netflix and YouTube on here, and I occasionally draw a bit).
       | 
       | In my day job, I am an engineering manager and it take notes on
       | the iPad as well. Would I switch to the iPad for full Time
       | development? No, probably not. But I do use it for my side
       | projects, and for something like advent of code it is good enough
       | as well.
        
       | drcongo wrote:
       | Would have bought it if it had a headphone jack. As it is,
       | there's nothing here to get excited about over my M1 Pro.
        
         | hayst4ck wrote:
         | I was pretty skeptical of AirPods. Now I could never go back.
        
           | drcongo wrote:
           | I use my iPad for making music, the latency on AirPods or any
           | other BT headphones makes them a non-starter. It makes me
           | actually angry that they removed the jack from the iPad
           | "pro", killing one of the very few actual pro uses for an
           | iPad.
        
             | nomel wrote:
             | For some numbers:
             | 
             | First gen AirPods Pro have around 130ms latency. Headphone
             | jack has around 50ms. [1]
             | 
             | I can't find any measurements for second gen AirPods Pro.
             | 
             | 1. https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/tech-news-airpods-pro-
             | latenc...
        
             | kaba0 wrote:
             | I'm not knowledgeable on hardware/music, would an usb-c to
             | jack converter decrease quality/increase latency? I know
             | that it is still a bad option as you may want to charge it
             | at the same time.. Maybe those usb-c dongles used primarily
             | in macs? They often have jack as well, would that not be a
             | good replacement?
        
               | drcongo wrote:
               | It's _a_ replacement, but not a _good_ one. If you want
               | good sound quality and the ability to charge at the same
               | time then it's quite a bulky dongle. The audio quality
               | varies massively too, so if you mix  / master on one and
               | then it breaks, you have to replace it with the exact
               | same one otherwise your next mix / master isn't going to
               | match the last one. And if they've stopped making that
               | one, you're screwed. All of these are problems Apple have
               | created for pro users of the iPad Pro by removing the
               | jack.
        
       | kaycebasques wrote:
       | One current day iPad killer app IMO is Procreate. It's basically
       | a more intuitive version of Adobe Illustrator completely
       | optimized for iPad + iPen. I bought my then girlfriend (now wife
       | :D) an iPad for her bday in 2020 accepting the risk that we're
       | spending a lot of money on an activity she might not stick with
       | (digital illustration). Happy to report that I was totally wrong
       | and we have def gotten our money's worth through the countless
       | hours she has logged creating art. If she didn't have such a
       | stellar app like Procreate she probably would have tried out
       | other illustration methods. Not a guerilla marketing plug, I have
       | no vested interest in Apple or Procreate. Just sharing an app
       | outside my space that seems to not get much attention here on HN.
       | You can check out my wife's art at https://instagram.com/gabjoart
        
         | kylehotchkiss wrote:
         | I can't believe it's just a one-time $10 fee instead of the
         | ridiculous and increasing creative cloud monthly/annual fees. I
         | don't know how they do it. Maybe it'll be an annual fee one day
         | but at least the app is worth it.
        
         | AIrtemis wrote:
         | Came here to +1 on the likelihood of transition thoughts and
         | the discovery of procreate.
         | 
         | I also happened to gift an iPad Pro to my wife. Her daily
         | workflow for work are apps like gdocs and buffer and the ipad
         | handles that just fine. I think we underestimate how similar is
         | the regular job workflow and overestimate the particular setup
         | we need for programming / engineering.
         | 
         | And for digital art, she started from 0 and is now a pro at
         | ClipStudio art and Procreate. She is working on her webtoon and
         | has created plenty of nfts and twitter profile pictures on
         | fiverr. I've started bringing an ipad to engineering lectures
         | since it has also helped me a great deal with note taking.
         | 
         | I'll send her your wife's insta, here is her's:
         | https://www.instagram.com/yanora_draws/
        
         | dagmx wrote:
         | ProCreate and illustrator aren't comparable. The former is
         | raster while the latter is a vector app.
         | 
         | I think you meant to or should compare it to Photoshop
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | carbocation wrote:
           | From context "Easter" was probably autouncorrected from
           | "raster".
        
             | dagmx wrote:
             | Haha yes, autocorrect on iOS 16 autocorrects backwards a
             | word or two and it drives me nuts.
        
             | grokkedit wrote:
             | I read it as Easter (as in colorful) vs Victorian (as in
             | austere)
        
           | wlesieutre wrote:
           | And only the digital painting parts of Photoshop, not photo
           | editing. Which isn't to say that it's not a great app! It's
           | just not a full on replacement for Illustrator of Photoshop.
           | 
           | If you want an alternative to Illustrator or Photoshop,
           | Affinity Designer or Affinity Photo are more in that vein.
        
             | bpye wrote:
             | How does the iPad version of Photoshop compare to the full
             | desktop application?
        
               | wlesieutre wrote:
               | I've seen occasional blog posts about X feature from
               | desktop being added to mobile, so definitely didn't
               | launch with feature parity, though they made a big deal
               | about how it was based on the real desktop Photoshop
               | codebase.
               | 
               | But personally I dropped Photoshop when it went
               | subscription (last version I owned was CS5) and I've
               | never tried the iPad version, so no personal experience
               | to compare it.
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | Not even Photoshop -- Photoshop is mainly about editing,
           | well, photos, while ProCreate is about natural-looking brush
           | painting. Photoshop certainly has brushes, but it's not even
           | attempting any kind of naturalism. People don't generally
           | "paint" in Photoshop. [Edit: from comments below, I stand
           | corrected. Guess it's just the people I know.]
           | 
           | I'm not sure what you call that category of app -- painting
           | apps? Natural-media painting apps? (Although you can choose
           | to make them quite unnatural-looking too if you want.)
           | Fractal Design Painter (later Corel Painter) invented the
           | category I believe, way back in 1991.
        
             | bovermyer wrote:
             | I paint in Photoshop...
        
             | lupire wrote:
             | Procreate is an approximate subset of Photoshop.
             | 
             | Photoshop has an old, strong brand, allthe name is a bit
             | anachronistic, but it has grown to be a product for all 2D
             | visual art.
        
               | formerly_proven wrote:
               | Are the 3D object layers from CS5 still around?
        
             | dagmx wrote:
             | Photoshop is one of the primary painting apps in the
             | professional industry.
             | 
             | From illustrators to matte painters, photoshop is probably
             | the most common painting app you'll find.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | aikinai wrote:
           | Thanks for your comment. I was just about to waste time
           | researching Procreate under the false impression it was
           | vector.
           | 
           | By the way, if anyone is interested in a vector drawing app,
           | I highly recommend Concepts.
        
             | dagmx wrote:
             | Affinity Designer is another really good vector app and
             | exists on desktop too so you can have a single app workflow
        
               | ghostpepper wrote:
               | Affinity products are like if Adobe never got huge and
               | bloated and instead just kept working on keeping
               | Photoshop/Illustrator/etc modern and usable
        
               | jiveturkey wrote:
               | except 1/10th of the feature set. one man's bloat is
               | another man's essential feature. as a non professional I
               | eventually had to give up as I couldn't keep CS5 running
               | on Mac. I am still on Intel so I guess I could run an
               | older macOS in a VM.
        
             | llui85 wrote:
             | Personally, I use Vectornator, although it has a history of
             | being a bit buggy on lower-end devices (seems to be fixed
             | now).
        
         | doix wrote:
         | Similar story here, my girlfriend uses the
         | iPad/pencil/procreate to draw commissions for people. She
         | absolutely loves it, went did an art degree but then went down
         | a different career path and is now getting back into it.
         | 
         | In a world filled with apps that require a subscription, a
         | persistent internet connection or filled to the brim with ads,
         | procreate really is a breath of fresh air. Just buy it and use
         | it like in the good old days.
        
         | mkaic wrote:
         | Agreed. Procreate is a masterclass in iPad app design.
         | Everything runs so smoothly, the features are deep but the
         | interface is still beginner-friendly, it's a joy to draw in
         | with the Apple Pencil, and it has really good options available
         | for exporting your work. Plus, it automatically records a
         | timelapse of every project that you can render out at the end,
         | which is a small feature that I absolutely adore. All that for
         | a single-time purchase? Heck yeah.
        
         | parkersweb wrote:
         | Adobe purchasing Procreate in 3...2.... ;-)
        
         | Swizec wrote:
         | I bought an iPad in 2020 fully thinking it's gonna collect dust
         | like all my other tablets over the years.
         | 
         | Nowadays I use it more than my laptop. With the magic keyboard
         | and pen, it really has become the perfect portable computing
         | device. Great for writing, great for sketching diagrams, even
         | good for light coding (like for code samples). And it is
         | _fantastic_ for creating talk slides and even presenting full
         | day workshops. Love it
         | 
         | Was waiting for today's announcement to upgrade. Running into
         | memory issues lately :D
        
           | yardie wrote:
           | I bought my wife an iPad Pro and then a Macbook Air after she
           | complained she couldn't do some things on the iPad. Well,
           | eventually she figured out how to do it on the iPad and the
           | MBA has been collecting dust. I adopted the MBA because my
           | trusty old MBP is damn near geriatric (2015) and it's like a
           | shot in the arm. I should have bought it sooner for myself.
        
           | kaba0 wrote:
           | What IDE do you use to code? I found nothing so far.
        
             | superdug wrote:
             | vscode in github, simply replace any github.com url with
             | github.dev and you've got a full vscode environment with
             | github plugins right in the browser.
        
           | FearlessNebula wrote:
           | I have to ask, why did you buy an iPad expecting it to
           | collect dust?
        
             | Swizec wrote:
             | I wanted toys, could afford them, and I know myself. For
             | example I have a Switch that was used _a lot_ in its first
             | month that now gets picked up maybe once a quarter for a
             | few minutes.
        
               | FearlessNebula wrote:
               | Fair enough :)
        
           | dzhiurgis wrote:
           | Is this 11 or 13" one? I found smaller keyboard is too
           | painful to use. Maybe you can get used to as a daily, but
           | will be upgrading to larger one.
        
             | Swizec wrote:
             | I have the 11". Probably couldn't use that keyboard all
             | day, but for a few hours of writing at a time it's perfect.
        
           | lukasb wrote:
           | What size iPad do you have? Thinking about getting the pen
           | but I have the smaller Pro, not sure how good an experience
           | it will be.
        
             | Swizec wrote:
             | I have the 11" and like it specifically because it's small.
             | Perfect for working on the couch
        
           | lupire wrote:
           | It seems like iPad's main feature is that Apple refuses to
           | put a touchscreen or 180degree hinge on a laptop. Laptop has
           | a bigger screen for drawing and coding.
        
             | Swizec wrote:
             | Dunno. For real coding I need a big monitor, a real
             | keyboard, and a proper mouse. My laptop lives in its dock
             | and the only time the built-in screen/keyboard get used are
             | when I'm traveling and can't work from the home office.
        
             | yamtaddle wrote:
             | > It seems like iPad's main feature is that Apple refuses
             | to put a touchscreen or 180degree hinge on a laptop.
             | 
             | And extra sensors. And two good cameras, front and rear,
             | with depth & all the other stuff that iPad/iPhone cameras
             | have that Macbook cameras don't. And make it far thinner
             | and lighter. And better speakers. And iOS so there's a
             | touch-focused OS on it. And a cellular connectivity option.
        
           | spaceman_2020 wrote:
           | Bought my wife an iPad in 2020 as well with the same fear
           | that it will largely go unused.
           | 
           | She teaches at a university and would normally write copious
           | notes on dozens of notebooks.
           | 
           | She got a copy of Goodnotes for iPad and started using it for
           | her notes. 2 years later, she hasn't touched any of her
           | physical notes. All her study material is on iPad.
           | 
           | Very happy with the purchase.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | mnholt wrote:
       | No horizontal camera is a dealbreaker for me at this point. I
       | know it's minor, but that would truly let me leave the
       | laptop/desktop at home.
        
         | nomel wrote:
         | With the number of cameras on an iPhone, I'm surprised they
         | don't just add a second.
        
       | xd1936 wrote:
       | Still no "Liquid Retina XDR" display on the $800+ 11" iPad Pro :(
        
         | nomel wrote:
         | It, as with the last gen iPad Pro, does have Liquid Retina XDR:
         | 
         | Last gen: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212527
         | 
         | This gen, right on the product page:
         | https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/
        
           | faeriechangling wrote:
           | The first page isn't for the 11" model, and the second page
           | claims it has a "Liquid Retina" screen capped at 600nits not
           | a "Liquid Retina XDR" screen.
        
             | nomel wrote:
             | My bad. I completely missed the 11" there. And, I didn't
             | realize there was a difference. That is disappointing.
        
       | focom wrote:
       | Isn't stage mode the main star of the show? It looks like the
       | first baby step to have an actual desktop environment on the
       | ipad.
        
       | vbezhenar wrote:
       | Is it possible to use iPad with Safari and VSCode? I'm thinking
       | about something like GitHub Codespaces. Like development in
       | browser.
        
         | brikwerk wrote:
         | Code server might be what you're looking for:
         | https://github.com/coder/code-server
         | 
         | The caveat with the above is that you'll need something to host
         | it. You could use a computer on your local network or a VPS of
         | some kind (DigitalOcean, Linode, etc all have cheaper plans for
         | hosting).
         | 
         | Once you get Code Server running, you can add the URL to your
         | homepage to remove the Safari URL bar.
        
       | hatware wrote:
       | I bought an iPad Pro (M1) about a month ago. I'm glad I didn't
       | wait, most of these upgrades are superficial or would not be
       | noticed by me.
        
       | r2sk5t wrote:
       | Dear Apple, Does the new iPad case have a place to store the
       | pencil when traveling?
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | Apple will not make a case with Pencil storage, but Apple sells
         | multiple third-party cases which do
         | (https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HPKU2ZM/A/stm-dux-plus-
         | fo...), and you can find hundreds of vendors which will sell
         | you one.
        
         | gumby wrote:
         | What I found best is a strap with a narrow pouch sewn into it.
        
       | otikik wrote:
       | > delivering the ultimate combination of portability,
       | versatility, and unbelievable performance
       | 
       | Not with that OS
        
       | bovermyer wrote:
       | So... what's the use case for this, versus say an XP Pen or Wacom
       | graphics tablet and a Macbook?
       | 
       | The more portable nature?
        
       | gedy wrote:
       | Looks really nice, but as a developer I'm unwilling to give that
       | up on my local system! Maybe one day if cloud only becomes a lot
       | better, but even then feels like a downgrade.
        
       | jmull wrote:
       | It's nice they keep working on making iPadOS more useable. But it
       | seems like a waste of time to me.
       | 
       | Just let iPads run MacOS already.
       | 
       | (or put the nice touch screen on MacBooks, same difference)
       | 
       | If it's too awkward to use macOS without a keyboard and pointing
       | device then, sure, maybe MacOS mode isn't the default.
        
         | neilalexander wrote:
         | Try using Sidecar for any substantial amount of time and you'll
         | realise just how awkward macOS is without a keyboard and
         | pointing device.
        
           | jmull wrote:
           | It's not like the iPad Pro doesn't have nice keyboard and
           | pointing device options.
           | 
           | I remote into MacOS and Windows machines from my iPad (12.9"
           | iPad + Apple's keyboard/trackpad case + Jump) and it works
           | well.
        
       | simonebrunozzi wrote:
       | I was waiting for a Macbook Pro M2 2022 announcement... :(
        
       | smm11 wrote:
       | Still digging my Galaxy S21 being a desktop experience over an
       | HDMI cable.
       | 
       | But I'm probably switching to a Samsung phone that folds.
        
         | ChildOfChaos wrote:
         | I'd love to see this explored more, it seems we have such power
         | in our pockets, all we really need is devices to attach this
         | too rather than more devices with the same cpu/memory and
         | gpu's.
         | 
         | Particularly when you look at Apple devices, if you own
         | multiple apple devices you have several devices with A or M
         | series CPU and GPU's.
        
       | barbariangrunge wrote:
       | I remember I used to read a lot on my tablet before I started
       | using anki to take notes as I went. I miss it, the screens and
       | then light weight are very easy on the eyes and hands. Reading on
       | a laptop isn't nearly as nice, but you can't beat the keyboard
        
       | delta_p_delta_x wrote:
       | As a commment on the /r/iPad subreddit said, Apple accidentally
       | made the most future-proof devices with the 2018 iPad Pros. There
       | is not a _single_ app that makes full use of the increased CPU
       | power of these new iPads.
       | 
       | I own a 2018 11" iPP, and it has been a game-changer in the way I
       | have studied. After buying it, I haven't printed a _single_ sheet
       | of paper for note-taking. It 's also a much better Netflix device
       | than my phone.
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | I assume multicore video encoding makes full use of the CPU?
         | 
         | It seems kind of crazy to say there's _nothing_ that makes full
         | use of the CPU.
        
           | mort96 wrote:
           | Do people ever seriously edit video on the iPad?
        
             | crazygringo wrote:
             | Oh my goodness, absolutely.
             | 
             | You're not going to edit a feature film on it, but for
             | anything that's just filming a few minutes of different
             | things and editing then together and posting/sending it
             | wherever, it's a godsend.
             | 
             | Whether you're a professional actor taping a last-minute
             | audition from your hotel room, a sales manager putting
             | together an instructional video on site, or a high schooler
             | putting together a classroom project.
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | Bingo. I also have a 2018 11" iPad Pro, and the only things
         | that would even nudge me in the direction of upgrading is a
         | landscape-friendly selfie camera (like the new iPad got),
         | significantly smaller bezels, Touch ID (again, the regular iPad
         | has this), and a better display (11" doesn't have mini-LED).
        
         | musictubes wrote:
         | You're right that the 2018 iPads are great. But people buying
         | their first powerful ipad really don't want a 2018 machine so
         | Apple keeps improving them. Software improves as time goes on.
        
         | hartator wrote:
         | What do you use for note taking on an iPad?
        
         | drcongo wrote:
         | I own a 2018 11" and an M1 12.9" and there's plenty of times
         | the 11" has failed to cope with something the 12.9" barely
         | breaks a sweat over. I'm not sure what you do with yours, but
         | it's provably untrue that there is not a single app that makes
         | full use of the increased CPU power of these new iPads.
        
         | stinkytaco wrote:
         | Serious question, would you recommend buying a refurb 2018 for
         | modest usage over the new iPad 10.9"? It's about 100nits
         | brighter, a bit lighter with a bit larger screen and supports
         | pencil 2. Looks like they are about the same price as well.
        
           | sonofhans wrote:
           | I would, certainly. I'm also using a 2018 Pro. The additional
           | screen size makes more difference to me than brightness; I
           | never have the brightness all the way up anyway.
        
         | asdff wrote:
         | >After buying it, I haven't printed a single sheet of paper for
         | note-taking.
         | 
         | OTOH you can buy a whole lot of $3 spiral notebooks for the
         | price of an ipad pro
        
         | nozzlegear wrote:
         | I was just thinking this myself. I have the 12.9" 2018 iPad Pro
         | and was considering pulling the trigger on this new iPad Pro
         | announced today. But I really have no reason to, my current one
         | runs perfectly and I've even got the floating keyboard case
         | which is backwards compatible with it. It's replaced my laptop
         | entirely, instead I just ssh into my Mac at home and use vim if
         | I feel like writing some code on the road or from bed.
         | 
         | Honestly have no complaints with this 2018 model, it's one of
         | my favorite pieces of hardware I've ever owned and in fact is
         | what introduced me to the Apple ecosystem (where I'm now fully
         | submersed) in the first place.
        
           | Tijdreiziger wrote:
           | > in fact is what introduced me to the Apple ecosystem (where
           | I'm now fully submersed) in the first place.
           | 
           | If you'd be willing to expand on this, I'd be very interested
           | to hear more.
           | 
           | I used to be all-in on Apple devices circa 2010, but drifted
           | back to Windows and Android for gaming & better notification
           | UX (and Windows being a much more familiar OS to me).
           | However, I don't game on PC anymore, and I've become
           | increasingly unhappy with the privacy concerns regarding
           | Google's ecosystem.
           | 
           | I got a 2020 iPad and the UX is leagues ahead of my aging
           | Samsung Galaxy S9. Given this and the aforementioned privacy
           | concerns, I've been considering once again switching to an
           | iPhone and MacBook. Therefore, it would be very valuable to
           | me to hear more about your experiences (and others who have
           | made the same switch and happen to read this).
        
           | srvmshr wrote:
           | Very interesting! Can you please share your preferred apps
           | for ssh/remote access to your home server or Mac? I think I
           | could use that recommendation.
        
             | astrojams wrote:
             | Blink.sh is my favorite ssh app for the iPad.
        
             | unixfg wrote:
             | My favorite so far has been Prompt2, but I'm down to try
             | others!
        
             | nozzlegear wrote:
             | Sure! I started off using the Termius app for ssh, but
             | ended up moving to Blink. It's been so long that I can't
             | really say why I stopped using Termius, but Blink works
             | really well. It has a lot of built-in bash commands, but
             | honestly I don't find those that useful since I'm not
             | working on local files. I think if Blink had vim built-in
             | I'd use those commands a lot more, but right now I just
             | open Blink and immediately ssh into my home machine. I have
             | a couple ssh aliases set up for that -- one that uses my
             | local network if I'm at home, and one that connects to my
             | home IP address if I'm out on the road.
             | 
             | The only special setup that I had to do on my Mac was
             | allowing ssh connections and adding the public key that the
             | Blink app created for me. When I was on Windows I found
             | that I had to map the command and option keys from my iPad
             | keyboard to my custom vim keybindings, but now that I use a
             | Mac as well that's not necessary.
             | 
             | Edit: here's a picture of my iPad ssh'd into my Mac and
             | editing some F# code. It works well! https://www.dropbox.co
             | m/s/ilh16cesqj8ovi9/IMG_7535.jpeg?dl=0
        
               | srvmshr wrote:
               | This looks incredibly good. How's the typing latency &
               | bash completion? Thanks for sharing a photo - gives much
               | richer perspective.
        
               | nozzlegear wrote:
               | If I'm on my home network the latency is impossible to
               | notice, I might as well be at my Mac. Same goes for bash
               | completion, it works flawlessly. Once I'm off my home
               | network it's a slightly different story, it just depends
               | on the internet connection wherever I happen to be
               | connecting from. For example I stayed at a hotel in
               | Fargo, ND a few weeks ago and the latency was fine for
               | the most part, but there were moments where the typing or
               | completion would lag behind by a second or two and then
               | catch up. Almost like lag in a video game.
               | 
               | Blink has mosh in addition to ssh, which if I understand
               | correctly is much better suited to handling higher
               | latency connections like that. I just haven't taken the
               | time to set it up at home, so I can't really say how it
               | performs.
               | 
               | All in all, if you're curious about using the iPad for
               | this kind of thing I really recommend it. I absolutely
               | love mine. Apple is pretty generous with their return
               | policy too, I've returned a handful of their laptops just
               | because I had buyer's remorse!
        
               | srvmshr wrote:
               | Nah, good heavens I won't return it :) I have a workplace
               | M1 11in model, but its late for me - so I am going to try
               | this fun project tomorrow.
               | 
               | But thanks for generously replying with so much detail.
               | Much appreciated.
        
               | kstrauser wrote:
               | Another vote for Blink. In particular, its mosh support
               | is brilliant.
               | 
               | Short version: after installing mosh-server on the remote
               | machine, you run "mosh remotehost" instead of "ssh
               | remotehost". It uses SSH to establish an encrypted UDP
               | "connection" to the server. If your IP changes, Blink
               | instantly re-establishes a connection. If you pause your
               | iPad for a week and come back to it, Blink instantly re-
               | establishes a connection.
               | 
               | What this means in practice is that I can start doing
               | something at home. Oops, time to leave: I take my iPad on
               | with me on the bus to the office, pair it with my phone,
               | and continue working _from the same session_. Get to work
               | and switch to Wi-Fi, and I keep using that same session.
               | It 's freaking magical.
        
       | candiddevmike wrote:
       | Anyone use an iPad as their daily driver?
        
         | CGamesPlay wrote:
         | I have been, for backend development only. I live most of my
         | life in Blink shell connected to a Linux machine. Works great
         | as a very expensive dumb terminal. https://blink.sh/
         | 
         | Cons:
         | 
         | - Multitasking is weak. You can put two windows next to one
         | another as long as you want them to be in a vertical split. The
         | "pull out" side window feature doesn't work on the home screen
         | for no discernible reason, so if you have Things in the side
         | app then open it from the home screen, it's no longer opened in
         | the side app and you have to manually move it back. (append: I
         | haven't tried Stage Manager yet; maybe it will address some of
         | this)
         | 
         | - Hardware keyboard support is pretty weak. The settings app
         | and shortcuts app are two examples of apps with bad keyboard
         | support. The "full keyboard access" is a very strange modality:
         | it turns tab into a chording key. There's no equivalent to
         | "focus all elements" as there is on desktop, so for example if
         | I press tab from this text box, the "reply button" is not
         | selected; the search at the bottom of the page is.
         | 
         | - Web access is a must. Individual apps might provide offline
         | support, but many have sub-par sync systems, where you'll
         | discovered that your offline files have helpfully been
         | completely deleted and require resyncing, but since you're
         | already on the plane by that point you're out of luck.
         | 
         | All in all: works great as an expensive dumb terminal.
        
         | bluedino wrote:
         | My brother does, his just broke and has been waiting for the
         | new release. He's a teacher and just uses it for email, grading
         | papers, etc.
        
         | mise_en_place wrote:
         | Only as an e-reader, mainly because I lost my Kindle between
         | moves. Other than that I don't use it for much.
        
         | jerkstate wrote:
         | I did for ~5 years but switched to the m2 air, complex tasks
         | and multi tasking are much much easier, as well as dev work
         | which is possible in a very limited way on iPad. I always used
         | it with the keyboard attached and the laptop has a better hinge
         | for screen angle too
        
         | mnholt wrote:
         | I did with the 2018 11" + Magic Keyboard. I felt very capable
         | of doing most day-to-day tasking with the keyboard and mouse.
         | Video calls sucked because the camera is off to the side when
         | in the Magic Keyboard. Stage Manager might help even more, I
         | found the previous "windowing" features to be lacking.
        
         | Maursault wrote:
         | I use a 5th gen iPad mini for web, email, telephony, ebooks,
         | photos & video capture, but I use older Intel Macs (MBP 2010 &
         | mini 2012) for local media server, storage, photo and video
         | editing, torrent, file manipulation and transcoding, word
         | processing & desktop publishing, pdf generation & editing, VM &
         | emulation, and all the things that iDevices won't easily or
         | gracefully allow or anything I happen to prefer on macOS.
         | Granted, with effort, one can do nearly everything on iDevice,
         | but it isn't always convenient. But upwards of 90% of the
         | things I use Apple technology for is web browsing, email, and
         | watching a movie or tv show, and this incidentally makes my
         | Macs more secure and less needy of administration. I would like
         | to have a new Mac, but I really can't justify it because I no
         | longer use them for web and email, all the old Mac software can
         | still do what I need it to do, although heavy processing takes
         | longer, because the Macs are really in the background, it
         | doesn't slow me down.
        
         | hayst4ck wrote:
         | Some things work great on the iPad, and for those things the
         | iPad is absolutely fantastic and I will often prefer to use it.
         | 
         | If you want to infinitely scroll, the iPad is unparalleled. It
         | is great for reading and watching. I like it as a game device.
         | It is great for reading news and I enjoy apple's news widgets.
         | Kindle works well. If you want to consume, the iPad is an
         | amazing tool for consumption.
         | 
         | Additionally in the last year, apple made it really easy to use
         | your iPad as a second screen, either as an iPad or as a literal
         | second screen for your macbook. I found myself doing that more
         | and more.
         | 
         | I bought the apple pencil thinking it can't possibly be worth
         | the money, but it is an enjoyable device to use. Writing text
         | on an iPad is more gimmick than feature (for me), but I find it
         | a pleasurable way to scroll or navigate apps.
         | 
         | That being said, once you want to do a task with a keyboard,
         | there is no replacing a laptop. The iPad is also locked down
         | (no terminal, only safari) such that a laptop is still
         | necessary. The iPad is still very much a luxury device and
         | could not stand on its own. Phones and laptops both have
         | features that the iPad does not have that make them necessary.
         | The iPad offers nothing that makes it necessary unless you
         | consider an ancillary screen for your laptop necessary.
        
         | manv1 wrote:
         | Been using my iPad pro 2017 12.9 since 2015. It's basically my
         | email/web/books/video/social device, but also can do work stuff
         | in a pinch. It's not ideal for work, but it's more practical
         | than my 12 mini if I need to do emergency stuff.
         | 
         | I also use it for presentations, sketch out designs and
         | architecture, etc, but it's harder to clean up documents on the
         | iPad because the editing on it is awkward compared do a laptop.
         | For certain things diction works, but just copying and pasting
         | a couple of rows in excel (or any spreadsheet like thing) is
         | just really bad.
         | 
         | That said, the tool you have with you is the best tool, and
         | it's really portable. It's 7 years old at this point and still
         | going strong. It won't use a bunch of the new features in 16,
         | but since I don't use those anyway I don't care.
         | 
         | If you want to test out an iPad, pick up a 1st or 2nd gen iPad
         | Pro. I have three of them around the house (including mine) and
         | the other two get used all the time for video/games/browsing.
        
       | gorkish wrote:
       | It's still pathetic they won't let you run OS X on it.
        
         | orangecat wrote:
         | From Apple's perspective, macOS is a legacy product with the
         | undesirable ability to run software of your choice without
         | giving them a cut.
        
         | Toutouxc wrote:
         | Just FYI, it's been called "macOS" for the last eight years.
         | The last OS X was El Capitan.
        
       | akmarinov wrote:
       | First time for Wi-Fi 6E on Apple hardware. Expecting that in the
       | new MBPs as well
        
       | __jl__ wrote:
       | The iPad Pro is an amazing piece of hardware! But the last
       | iterations make zero difference for most consumers. The hardware
       | improved rapidly over a couple of years. Both the 2017 model
       | (move from 9.7 to 10.5 screen) and the 2018 model (new design
       | without home bottom, USB-C, Gen 2 Pencil) were huge steps. Magic
       | Keyboard from 2020 was a great addition as well and works with
       | the 2018 model. For my own usage, the 2018 model is pretty much
       | feature complete from a hardware perspective. Software makes the
       | big difference now.
       | 
       | I am still amazed by my 2018 iPad pro four years later!
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | nomilk wrote:
       | Any signs of a new MacBook Pro 16" with this announcement (or any
       | indication of when we may hear something)?
        
         | carlosbaraza wrote:
         | Apparently M2 Pro will launch in November, not October
         | https://www.tomsguide.com/news/new-macbook-pros-with-m2-pro-...
        
       | lapcat wrote:
       | I love how "Desktop-class apps" means extremely basic features
       | available decades ago on desktop: "consistent undo and redo, a
       | redesigned inline find-and-replace experience, a new document
       | menu, customizable toolbars, and the ability to change file
       | extensions, view folder size".
        
         | stinos wrote:
         | Well, they can't push it too far because then it would become
         | something too close to an actual laptop/tablet hybrid.
        
           | duxup wrote:
           | I'd argue that is exactly what they are doing. Their
           | promotional material and many users are already using iPads
           | as desktops... and they seem to be catering to them.
        
             | stinos wrote:
             | Could be, but at what point will they stop, i.e. how long
             | before the iPad becomes the Macbook Air? In any case: if
             | they don't stop then I'd think one of those would have to
             | go, makes little sense keeping 2 product lines which are
             | like almost the same?
        
               | duxup wrote:
               | I suspect that will happen eventually.
               | 
               | My M2 air is as thick as my iPad ...
               | 
               | Having said that it is also MUCH heavier (relative to
               | what I'd like an iPad to be) and has a noticeably bigger
               | screen.
               | 
               | Not sure how fast those gaps get closed.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | When the iPad Pro is as expensive or more than the Air,
               | and they feel they have the software down pat.
        
               | lupire wrote:
               | iPad Pro already costs more than Air in many
               | configurations.
        
               | bluescrn wrote:
               | The iPad doesn't become the Macbook Air until it can run
               | XCode and you can develop, compile, and test iPad apps on
               | the iPad itself.
        
               | lijogdfljk wrote:
               | > if they don't stop then I'd think one of those would
               | have to go, makes little sense keeping 2 product lines
               | which are like almost the same?
               | 
               | I feel like this is exactly what they want. My only
               | question is how much i'll be able to modify my laptop
               | long term. Ie i run Nixpkgs (ie the package system from
               | NixOS) on my laptop. The day i can't modify my Mac OS to
               | my liking is the day i stop buying their laptops.
               | 
               | I do think there's a market for people who want laptops
               | that have the lockdown of phones. Where less things can
               | go wrong because you can't change a lot.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | > The day i can't modify my Mac OS to my liking is the
               | day i stop buying their laptops.
               | 
               | That was my mentality too. For me, the cutoff came when
               | Catalina dropped (and I couldn't run 32-bit libraries,
               | even after modding MacOS). Nix was the last thing keeping
               | my sanity together when I last used MacOS. When they pull
               | the plug on that, it's going to be a sad day...
               | 
               | > I do think there's a market for people who want laptops
               | that have the lockdown of phones. Where less things can
               | go wrong because you can't change a lot.
               | 
               | I agree. That's a software problem though, not a hardware
               | problem. Much like the situation on iPhone, Apple could
               | easily offer a "pro mode" or "developer mode" that offers
               | extended functionality while disabling certain high-
               | security features.
        
               | 0x457 wrote:
               | A long time.
               | 
               | If MacBook Air is a browser machine, then it's already
               | happened. If it's a creative work machine, then well,
               | it's close, but you still probably have a some kind of PC
               | nearby.
               | 
               | If it's a developer machine, then the best iPad can do is
               | being a ssh terminal or VSCode browser. A superb
               | terminal, I use it every day to work because I don't have
               | personal laptop.
        
         | tshaddox wrote:
         | It seems reasonable for "desktop-class" to refer to the basic
         | features that have typically distinguished desktop personal
         | computers from alternatives like smartphones and tablets. What
         | else would you expect "desktop-class" to mean?
        
           | ohgodplsno wrote:
           | Powerful features that are more than a glorified ^Z.
           | Reminding actions to finger shortcuts, quick access through a
           | command palette, etc.
           | 
           | It'd be like me calling McDonald's restaurant-class because
           | they could suddenly give you a plate. Sure, it's a component,
           | but the porcelain isn't why I go to a restaurant, it's to
           | have a qualified cook doing things with his expertise.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote:
           | I think OP is saying it's strange that many "desktop"
           | applications today lack these basic desktop features.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | fsflover wrote:
           | > What else would you expect "desktop-class" to mean?
           | 
           | For example, PineTab runs full desktop GNU/Linux.
        
           | woojoo666 wrote:
           | well the Surface Pro runs full Windows
        
         | willis936 wrote:
         | It has always been artificial market segmentation. Their
         | message is clear: don't buy apple if you want a laptop with a
         | touchscreen. Apple will only sell you oversized phones and
         | regular laptops.
        
           | mrweasel wrote:
           | > don't buy apple if you want a laptop with a touchscreen
           | 
           | Keep buying Apple laptops, got it. I know that a large number
           | of people keep asking for laptop with touchscreen, but this
           | is one design decision where I whole heartedly with Apple.
           | Touchscreen on laptops make no sense. The use case for a
           | touchscreen is significantly different from a laptop that it
           | makes sense to have two classes of devices.
           | 
           | Then again, I don't really get the large number of iPads sold
           | either. It seems like an extremely niche devices which would
           | only find a use case in certain types of industry.
        
             | ryanmcbride wrote:
             | Yeah I've never used a laptop and wished I could touch the
             | screen to do something. I don't want to lift my hands off
             | my desk to move something around on the screen. I might not
             | be a good representation though because I don't even like
             | moving my hand off the keyboard to use the mouse
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | Touchscreens on a laptop are kinda silly, especially if
               | it isn't convertible. I will say though, I use
               | touchscreen gestures to navigate my desktops pretty
               | frequently. Blindly reaching for a three-finger swipe
               | feels a lot more natural than pausing to look down at my
               | Touch Bar and figure out what the hell I want to press...
        
               | mrweasel wrote:
               | I use the magic trackpad, that feels more natural that
               | touching the screen. 95% of the time my laptop is docker
               | to a USB-C monitor, so having a touchscreen would be a
               | little weird. For professional use, I'd guess that most
               | people have a larger monitor hooked up anyway. For a
               | touchscreen to make sense, my monitor would need to be
               | touch as well.
               | 
               | The issue with the Touch Bar is the same, that's not a
               | professional feature, or even particular useful. Apple
               | knows this, because you can't buy a magic keyboard with
               | the Touch Bar. If it was useful, the Touch Bar would also
               | appear on the those and it doesn't. I'd love to know how
               | many MacBook Pros are sold with and without the Touch
               | Bar.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | Trackpad gestures are great too, I use my Magic Trackpad
               | 2 on my Linux desktop where I don't have any
               | touchscreens. Still though, I think the display as a
               | multitouch surface shouldn't be overlooked. It's pretty
               | much perfect for gesturing.
        
               | filoleg wrote:
               | The best part is that those trackpad gestures translate
               | almost 1:1 from macOS to iPadOS. And you can use magic
               | trackpad with iPad too (although it makes more sense for
               | me personally to use the trackpad built into the iPad
               | magic keyboard case). I havent really used iPad shortcuts
               | before all that much, but once i accidentally triggered a
               | few of them after using it with a trackpad due to the
               | muscle memory from macOS, it all clicked perfectly.
        
             | BoorishBears wrote:
             | I've had a Macbook with a touchscreen
             | 
             | I installed OS X on my old Asus Zenbook and the touchscreen
             | still functioned... but yeah not once did I ever think "wow
             | I want to apply my fingers to my laptop screen instead of
             | using the large precise touch surface within easier reach"
             | besides for novelty
        
           | AlexandrB wrote:
           | And don't buy a Windows laptop if you want a laptop without a
           | touchscreen because the UI will be designed for touch even if
           | you only use a mouse. Although macOS is unfortunately
           | trending in this direction also.
        
             | guhidalg wrote:
             | Complain to the developers? Windows will tell applications
             | if they're in laptop or tablet mode, if you don't like
             | tablet mode then don't use it.
        
         | michaelt wrote:
         | You could actually get a full desktop experience from a tablet
         | back in 2003, with products like the NEC Versa Litepad [1]
         | running Windows XP. With a fully-fledged x86 processor, you
         | could run anything a desktop could run.
         | 
         | It was pretty neat, but I can tell you from experience that
         | coding using handwriting recognition isn't a great experience
         | :)
         | 
         | [1] https://www.cnet.com/reviews/nec-versa-litepad-tablet-pc-
         | vlp...
        
         | duxup wrote:
         | Not sure the desktop has moved beyond that though.
         | 
         | So seems about right.
        
         | ape4 wrote:
         | Maybe the "pencil hover experience" will finally allow desktop-
         | style "tool tips". So you can know what a button does before
         | tapping.
        
           | gnicholas wrote:
           | True, but only for users of the v2 Apple Pencil with the new
           | iPad Pro. For folks with v1, or with an iPad/Pro that doesn't
           | support hover (or who just use our fingers), discoverability
           | will continue to be a challenge...
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | dzhiurgis wrote:
         | > consistent undo and redo
         | 
         | Safari history has been broken for something like 4-5 years.
         | About 1% of time back button will take you one step too far
         | (i.e. will show your home page instead of google serp)
        
         | lupire wrote:
         | Can you drag the cursor with your finger to a specific
         | character in-text yet, without selecting text? 2018 iPad can't.
        
           | tshaddox wrote:
           | My 2017 iPad Pro can do that. I can tap and drag on the
           | cursor to move it. I can also long-tap and drag on the
           | spacebar to move the cursor like a touchpad. I can also drag
           | with 2 fingers anywhere on the keyboard to move the cursor
           | like a touchpad. The first 2 options also work on my iPhone.
        
           | kkruglov wrote:
           | Long tap space bar and it should become something like a
           | trackpad for the cursor.
        
             | ryanmcbride wrote:
             | God damn thank you. This interaction used to be triggered
             | by deep pressing on the keyboard and it drove me insane
             | when they got rid of it, I couldn't find any settings to
             | turn it back on but this works!
        
               | kaba0 wrote:
               | It's also the same on iphones.
        
       | stewx wrote:
       | > the 16-core Neural Engine can process 15.8 trillion operations
       | per second -- 40 percent more than M1 -- making iPad Pro even
       | more powerful when handling machine learning tasks
       | 
       | Do people actually use the iPad for machine learning?
        
         | edude03 wrote:
         | Yeah actually, it's really good for inference at the edge. You
         | might be thinking of training though which I doubt anyone does
        
       | drewg123 wrote:
       | As far as I know, this is the first Apple hardware to support
       | Wifi 6E, which is something I've been waiting on for what feels
       | like forever.
       | 
       | I'm hoping the rumored new laptops will also support 6E.
       | 
       | For those that don't know, Wifi-6E uses the 6Ghz band, and I
       | anticipate it will be very helpful in crowded residential
       | environments where lots of Wifi APs are all landing on the same
       | few 2.4 and 5Ghz channels.
        
         | jessriedel wrote:
         | I can't understand the emphasis on more bandwidth. The pain
         | with wifi is _overwhelmingly_ dominated by the slowness
         | establishing a connection (why does it take more than a
         | second?!), with connection reliability and latency (for video
         | calls) also being important.
         | 
         | "Wifi 7: 10 Terrabyte/sec transfer speeds" *yawn*
         | 
         | "Wifi 7: Connects in 500 ms, latency 20 ms, tri-band fallover
         | for 5-nines reliability" *Opens checkbook*
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | All I want is wireless devices that can be connected to my
           | 2.4GHz and 5Gz network _at the same time with the same IP_.
        
             | herpderperator wrote:
             | Dual-band (one device using both 2.4GHz and 5GHz) has
             | existed for over a decade.
        
               | chrisbolt wrote:
               | That only uses one band at a time, with separate IPs and
               | MAC addresses for each.
        
               | herpderperator wrote:
               | That's not what simultaneous dual-band means.[0]
               | 
               | [0]
               | https://www.google.com/search?q=simultaneous+dual+band
        
           | jayd16 wrote:
           | Wifi is still time sliced, right? More bandwidth means more
           | idle time means lower latency, no?
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | I've never once noticed slowness in _connecting_ as bothering
           | me at all. Are you connecting to new Wi-Fi networks hundreds
           | of times a day or something? My iPad just... stays connected
           | to the networks it knows.
           | 
           | And I believe that higher bandwidth _is_ the solution to
           | better reliability and latency when you 've got lots of
           | devices sharing the same router, or other interference. Isn't
           | that how digital radio works?
        
             | jessriedel wrote:
             | In fairness, I do notice the time to connect to my home
             | network much more when waking my Macbook Pro from sleep
             | than my iPad. But it is still noticeable on the iPad.
             | 
             | The place where the slowness is most noticeable on iPad is
             | when I want to reconnect it to my iPhone's hotspot. I need
             | to reconnect many times per day because the iPhone turns
             | off the hotspot when its unused for 90 seconds to save
             | battery, and this behavior _infuriatingly_ cannot be
             | disabled.
        
             | JCharante wrote:
             | I notice it all the time. The delay is really annoy when
             | you go in an elevator (so no cell signal) and wait for it
             | to reconnect to your wifi when you step out.
        
             | mixmastamyk wrote:
             | Apple stuff connects faster. Some folks say they "cheat." I
             | think by assuming the connection established before it got
             | a proper reply.
             | 
             | Other OSs don't do that, so it seems like it takes a longer
             | time.
        
         | nfriedly wrote:
         | Agreed! The thing about 6ghz is that it doesn't travel through
         | walls as well, and tends to have shorter range in general.
         | 
         | On the surface, this seems like a negative, but if you're in a
         | crowded apartment building, it can actually be a major benefit.
         | Even if a bunch of your neighbors end up using it on the same
         | channel as you, you won't experience as much interference
         | because the walls will attenuate their signals.
         | 
         | Of course, a single AP might not reliably cover your entire
         | home in 6ghz, but you can always fall back to 2.4 and 5ghz
         | and/or get more APs.
         | 
         | Additionally, WiFi 6 (and 6e) is better in general at detecting
         | neighboring networks across all frequency bands and reducing
         | interference automatically.
        
           | sumtechguy wrote:
           | One of my neighbors put in 8 access points for about
           | 1000sqft. Swamped everyone else out. That is what
           | unfortunately will happen. :(
        
             | nfriedly wrote:
             | If they're configured correctly, multiple APs on a given
             | network can actually lead to lower congestion, because they
             | can each lower their signal strength to only cover a small
             | area... but it sounds like that isn't what happened here.
             | 
             | 8 in a single small home is absurdly excessive. My home is
             | more than twice that size and I only have a single AP
             | (although I have been considering adding 1-2 more.)
        
       | lma21 wrote:
       | The iPad Pro is one of the expensive products that I never regret
       | paying 800$ for. Incredible speed, smooth UX, long lasting
       | battery, really doesn't even come close to the previous (Intel-
       | powered) iPads.
        
         | carlob wrote:
         | Intel based iPads?
        
           | skyyler wrote:
           | With context I think it's pretty clear that they meant
           | tablet.
           | 
           | My thinkpad tablets are thick, hot, and the battery lasts
           | around 3 hours of light use.
        
         | spullara wrote:
         | There have never been Intel based iPads.
        
       | at_a_remove wrote:
       | I was told to expect wireless charging for these. I was excited
       | about this, because my mother has an irrational "thing" about
       | wires, and an uncharged iPad is a useless iPad.
        
         | nomel wrote:
         | There are many lightning charge docks [1]. Maybe something like
         | that could work, if securely mounted to the back of a table, to
         | hide the hanging wire.
         | 
         | Wireless charging pads also have cables. Do you hide them in
         | table surfaces?
         | 
         | 1. Random example:
         | https://www.belkin.com/th/chargers/wireless/charging-stands-...
        
           | at_a_remove wrote:
           | Yeah, this is what I think I will have to go with, much as I
           | dislike it.
        
       | lifeinthevoid wrote:
       | How large a piece of the chip is that 16 core Neural Engine
       | eating? I'd rather have a more powerful CPU + GPU or am I missing
       | the point a bit? Anyone care to shed some light?
        
       | null_object wrote:
       | Pretty much everyone here knocking the iPad Pros for being
       | consumption-only passive entertainment devices.
       | 
       | But I guess the artists, musicians, video-editors and
       | photographers using them professionally would disagree, if they
       | ever came here.
        
         | srvmshr wrote:
         | I use the LiDAR of the iPad Pro to capture full schematic of
         | room in 3D to prepare spatial datasets.
         | 
         | It isn't perfect. The sampling rate of iPad Pro is still lower
         | than professional 3D cameras, but I can't complain when they
         | cost a fraction of the latter. 3DScanner and similar apps do a
         | great job at stitching the volumetric data on the fly &
         | rendering on iPad itself (before I transfer).
         | 
         | We use these data to do some inference via 3D computer vision
         | projects for clients
        
         | TheRealNGenius wrote:
        
         | BudaDude wrote:
         | I am a hobbyist video editor and I am excited for this iPad. I
         | never thought I would see Davinci Resolve come to it.
         | Especially before Final Cut.
        
         | FearlessNebula wrote:
         | The thing is, is the iPad really the best device at the price
         | point for these people? Artist seems like the only one.
         | 
         | - for a musician, surely the full featured desktop software is
         | better? And for $800 you can get a pretty good laptop - video
         | editors must also prefer a desktop OS. They can use keyboard
         | hot keys, industry standard software, and get better GPU
         | hardware - photographers might do pretty well with an iPad Pro
         | but again I think they'd probably still be best with desktop
         | class photoshop - a casual artist I will contend probably does
         | best with an iPad Pro. But if they start doing really serious
         | professional work, they will again probably want the full
         | desktop software and an expensive Wacom hardware to go
         | alongside
         | 
         | So at both casual and professional levels, the iPad Pro really
         | only makes sense for a casual illustrator from what I can see.
        
         | mixmastamyk wrote:
         | It's very frustrating that you can't even do simple operations
         | on files that were standard on the '84 Macintosh. I'm not
         | talking about rocket-science or a git-based build system.
         | 
         | I had high hopes for the Files app when it debuted, and was
         | very disappointed.
        
         | jessriedel wrote:
         | I use it everyday for handwritten math. Unfortunately, the
         | software is meager compared to the hardware.
        
         | adrr wrote:
         | Do creative types use Ipad Pros? The IPadOS file system is less
         | than optimal. Adobe apps are the real thing and missing
         | features.
         | 
         | My company has a full video team, and photo team. No one has
         | asked for an IPad Pro. They do have proXDR screens and some
         | beefy macs. Only execs have them for a high end zoom boxes
         | especially if they have a windows laptop that have poor mics
         | and cameras. Center stage feature is really nice.
        
           | musictubes wrote:
           | Are there any creatives that don't work in industry? Video
           | teams that use Mac Pros and Pro Display XDR wouldn't even be
           | able to use a MacBook Pro does that mean the MacBook Pro
           | can't be used by creatives?
           | 
           | So yes, creatives use the iPads. It is the main driver for
           | more performance on an ipad. Drawing, audio performance,
           | photo editing, hell, they are great second displays for
           | MacBooks.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | hbn wrote:
             | This thread was started with a comment about iPads being
             | used by professionals in these industries.
        
           | theshrike79 wrote:
           | Now ask the full video team to spend 30 weeks of a year
           | travelling around the world, producing video on locations.
           | 
           | I bet you they won't want to lug around the proXDR screens
           | and beefy macs at that point.
        
             | hbn wrote:
             | They'd probably go for a MacBook Pro that has the software
             | they use before an iPad.
        
         | dagmx wrote:
         | It's a big issue with the audience of this site being too hyper
         | focused on software development.
         | 
         | You can see it taken one step further in threads about GitHub
         | Copilot getting torn to bits but the threads on Stable
         | Diffusion getting lauded as the end of artists.
         | 
         | It's the double standards that come up when people fixate only
         | on what they know well themselves.
        
           | bovermyer wrote:
           | Yeah... I like Copilot for helping me with specific
           | coding/data entry tasks, and I like Stable Diffusion for
           | helping with my art workflow (I'm also an artist). I tend to
           | keep quiet about such opinions on here, though, because I
           | know I'll get downvoted into oblivion for heresy.
        
         | yamtaddle wrote:
         | > Pretty much everyone here knocking the iPad Pros for being
         | consumption-only passive entertainment devices.
         | 
         | Yeah, this criticism has never made sense to me. I think it
         | could only come from people for whom the only purpose of
         | computers is to make software, not to get out and... you know,
         | _do things_ with the software, in the actual world. I-devices
         | excel at that. They are excellent _computers as tools_ for
         | doing things that aren 't focused on locally testing docker
         | containers or whatever we all do in our day jobs that require
         | less-portable and kinda-dumber (their "view of the world", if
         | you will, is much more limited) desktops and laptops.
        
         | EugeneOZ wrote:
         | And kids. My daughter is using her iPad extensively, and not
         | only for games - she is drawing a lot, and her current CPU is
         | already pushing the limits in some sophisticated drawing apps.
        
         | hbn wrote:
         | I'll give you that artists use them for drawing.
         | 
         | But professional musicians, video editors, and photographers?
         | All the software for doing any of those things is kneecapped
         | versions of Mac apps. If they use an iPad at all it's as some
         | kind of supplementary tool for the real machine the work gets
         | done on.
        
         | boppo1 wrote:
         | > But I guess the artists, musicians, video-editors and
         | photographers using them professionally would disagree, if they
         | ever came here.
         | 
         | I do. But be glad we generally don't, it would probably lower
         | the quality of discussion.
        
       | jdlyga wrote:
       | "Hover" with the Apple Pencil is something that my Tablet PC in
       | 2003 could do. Still, I'm very glad that tablets in 2022 finally
       | have this feature.
        
         | jonas-w wrote:
         | Wait you couldn't hover over the ipad and it didn't show you a
         | pointer? The galaxy tablets had this since a few generations,
         | why didn't apple do this earlier?
        
           | twobitshifter wrote:
           | it seems to be an m2 feature only
        
       | roody15 wrote:
       | I Work IT in a institution with 290 employees and have had 5
       | switch to iPad Pro's to "replace" their laptop. I am now 5 for 5
       | with all asking for their laptop back.
       | 
       | iPadOS is nothing more than iPhoneOS renamed and the device is
       | still too heavily crippled for desktop/laptop replacement.
       | 
       | In my mini test case scenario I never said a word..simply the
       | employee asked for iPad Pro.. I just handed it to them...
       | waited... then about 2 weeks later they asked for laptop back.
       | 
       | Not sure what Apple's plan here is but they continue to market
       | this to schools and workplaces as a laptop replacement but refuse
       | to add functionality to the OS and keep it overly
       | crippled/restricted.
        
         | hellomyguys wrote:
         | If they're competing against Chromebooks, they're maybe better
         | actually.
        
         | martin_drapeau wrote:
         | My daughter is 16 and has used an iPad for school for many
         | years. Latptops are foreign to her. Same for her cohort. They
         | are the next generation of adults and have replaced desktops
         | and laptops with iPads and iPhones.
        
           | anotherman554 wrote:
           | I believe Chromebooks are more popular in the education
           | market in general.
        
           | solaceb wrote:
           | That is scary to me, an entire generation growing up within
           | the walled garden and perceiving only Apple's products as
           | what is possible for computers to accomplish. These computers
           | are confining, as much as their constriction liberates the
           | user in its simplicity, it is a real constriction. To me,
           | that's exactly what the FLOSS movement hoped to avoid, and
           | failed to do so by advocating for a purist f/open stance
           | rather than winning smaller battles with open source at least
           | staying in the war for market share.
        
             | thepasswordis wrote:
             | Not just the walled garden. iPads are simply less capable
             | as productivity devices than a laptop is.
             | 
             | Right now, for instance, I have this page open in a web
             | browser, which has youtube playing in one tab, twitter in
             | another, and this in yet another. I also have an iPhone
             | simulator running behind this browser, a terminal window
             | tail -f ing a logfile, and vscode in another window.
             | 
             | All of this stuff is open at the same time. I can hear
             | audio from all of it, access all of it, see all of it, all
             | at the same time. This is not possible on an iPad.
        
               | rpastuszak wrote:
               | True, but that's not how most people use their devices.
        
               | cute_boi wrote:
               | I think multitasking is the basic operation and these are
               | normal operation. Ipad is seriously limited by Apple
               | wallgarden design.
               | 
               | And, I think many people work like this if it will ever
               | be available in wall gardened ipad.
        
               | mort96 wrote:
               | Right, but some people do. And the people who do, used to
               | be people who don't. And those people became people who
               | do because it was possible. It is a bit worrying to me
               | that so many people will be growing up with devices with
               | such a low "skill ceiling"; devices which don't let your
               | interest in technology bloom but rather restrict what can
               | be imagined.
        
               | timdavila wrote:
               | > And the people who do, used to be people who don't.
               | 
               | Yep. Walled gardens kill curiosity.
               | 
               | Curiosity is what got me into this industry, way before I
               | knew it could be a career. Playing around, messing with
               | files that ran my games, making web forums and learning
               | to change how they look.
        
               | fragmede wrote:
               | When was the last time you used iPadOS? It can run
               | multiple programs, and can display two side-by-side just
               | fine. Yeah that means it's a little clunky if you need to
               | switch between three or more apps, but it's not like it
               | can't have apps in the background when you can't see
               | them. (Plus, no need to simulate anything, you're on a
               | real iOS device.) There's still no Xcode for iOS, though
               | there is Swift Playgrounds if you're an iOS developer,
               | and VScode still hasn't made it to the App store, but
               | it's got a keyboard and a mouse so if you squint a
               | little, it's fine for a large segment of users.
               | 
               | Sure there are limitations; you can't hit F12 and drop
               | into developer tools in Chrome, plus iOS Chrome is just
               | reskinned Safari anyway. Oh and the sound thing. I'm not
               | saying a full laptop doesn't have more, but the lost
               | capabilities simply aren't showstoppers for everyone,
               | especially if you're not a developer. In fact, because
               | they can have build in cell-modems and macbook air's
               | don't, combined with the fact that there are decent SSH
               | clients, it's actually a _better_ device for some.
        
             | scarface74 wrote:
             | As opposed to other schools that use ChromeOS devices?
        
         | barbariangrunge wrote:
         | My use case for this would be fairly simple: future proofing,
         | to make it unlikely to need a new tablet for 10 years
        
         | afro88 wrote:
         | Given how you approached it (zero guidance and support), I'm
         | not surprised all 5 asked for their laptops back.
        
         | jxdxbx wrote:
         | I don't like how Apple is making the iPad more laptop-y. My
         | ideal is to use a normal desktop computer, and an iPad. No
         | laptop. But if I had to pick only one of course it would be a
         | laptop.
        
         | blinkingled wrote:
         | It's a great consumption device though - ever since Google
         | stopped paying attention to the tablet space we have an iPad
         | 9.7 that lays in the kitchen and all my family members only
         | touch it for watching Netflix or YouTube.
         | 
         | Even for browsing it feels very slow compared to Surface tablet
         | or even Firefox on M1 MBP now a days.
        
         | Spooky23 wrote:
         | It depends on the user.
         | 
         | Execs and task oriented workers are great iPad use cases. In a
         | global org I'm familiar with, they run about 15k iPads, about
         | 5-10% of the IT engaged headcount. Senior execs in large orgs
         | in particular are ideal in the iPad environment.
         | 
         | For schools, I think the iPad sweet spot is grade K-4 for
         | dedicated devices; 4-8 is Chrome and 8+ can be Mac/Chrome/PC.
         | For shared or purpose dedicated devices, iPads fit every level.
         | 
         | Lots of other use case are limited by legacy or enterprise
         | software. Police patrol car, medical point of service and point
         | of sale are examples of use cases where iPads would be the
         | ideal solution, but for the existing software.
        
         | alana314 wrote:
         | I use the ipad for reading music scores but would never replace
         | it with a laptop. M1 and M2 is overkill for a consumption
         | device that doesn't have a real file system accessible to the
         | user.
        
         | tiahura wrote:
         | It's not just that the OS is crippled, the apps are as well.
         | 
         | Trying to quickly navigate between apps, edit, and copy and
         | paste, is an exercise in frustration.
        
         | miiiiiike wrote:
         | I have my iPad Pro+Magic Keyboard with me 24/7. I wish I could
         | code on it but that's it. For everything else it's perfect.
        
         | Lio wrote:
         | What kills it for me are the apps where you can't copy a single
         | word. e.g. Apple's own Messages app, you're forced to copy the
         | whole message.
         | 
         | Same for the spell checker. For some reason I have ridiculous
         | trouble triggering it in certain apps. I can see the mistake
         | underlined in red but I really struggle to get trigger the
         | correction popup instead of the "copy, lookup, etc" popup.
         | 
         | Maybe it's just me but I don't think I could consider an iPad
         | as laptop replacements without some basic changes to iPadOS.
        
           | thiht wrote:
           | > apps where you can't copy a single word
           | 
           | This one is ridiculous. On Reddit I always want to quote part
           | of a message or copy a phrase to translate it, and it's
           | literally impossible to do. You have to copy the whole
           | message, paste it in a text editor or in Notes, and finally
           | copy what you actually wanted to copy.
           | 
           | This should be solved at the OS level.
        
         | JimDabell wrote:
         | > In my mini test case scenario I never said a word..simply the
         | employee asked for iPad Pro.. I just handed it to them...
         | waited... then about 2 weeks later they asked for laptop back.
         | 
         | If you work in IT with hundreds of staff members, why would you
         | let them pick their own devices with zero guidance? This seems
         | like a recipe for disaster no matter which product is picked.
         | Do you let them do this with laptops / printers / operating
         | systems / etc.?
        
           | roody15 wrote:
           | Nope there are only three computer models to choose from and
           | that we support. The iPad Pro was added as a 4th option based
           | on a higher admin recommendation (not in IT ). However we are
           | now back to supporting 3 models.
        
             | getcrunk wrote:
             | What are the three laptop models
        
         | washadjeffmad wrote:
         | We have over 3000 employees with Apple equipment as their
         | primary device, and probably 200 of them are iPad Pro only.
         | 
         | They do serve different niches than laptops, but with a
         | keyboard case in an Office 365 environment, they can be full
         | office/productivity replacements for anyone who prioritizes
         | light travel over running local software.
        
         | qubex wrote:
         | I have an executive roll and I used an iPad almost exclusively
         | from probably 2013 until about six months ago. It's eminently
         | doable.
        
         | jeremy_wiebe wrote:
         | Without a clear description of what these employees were using
         | their iPads for, it's impossible for anyone else to use this
         | info to determine if their scenario fits yours.
         | 
         | Your ability to use iPad full-time depends heavily on the type
         | of work you do.
        
         | steve_adams_86 wrote:
         | Kids who don't know better might become accustomed to it and,
         | unless they are power users or interested to become that, they
         | might prefer to scrape by with the iPad.
         | 
         | There is pretty strong evidence that people aren't great at
         | using full fledged operating systems and feel much more
         | comfortable on a slate with a dumbed down UI
        
           | criddell wrote:
           | Most people aren't power users. An iPad is a great device for
           | lots of people. It's my favorite computer to use mostly
           | because of the excellent apps.
           | 
           | What you call _a dumbed down UI_ , I call streamlined. It's
           | simple, focused, and fast.
        
           | spideymans wrote:
           | iPads and Chromebooks are rapidly taking over education. Both
           | K-12 and in college.
           | 
           | I think the pandemic really accelerated things. A lot more
           | students are using iPads, rather than paper notebooks.
        
             | roody15 wrote:
             | Chromebooks won this battle.. handily.
        
               | larrywright wrote:
               | My perception is that this is largely based on price. Not
               | necessarily because it's better.
        
           | jahewson wrote:
           | I would not say that "people aren't great at using full
           | fledged operating systems" but that fully fledged operating
           | systems aren't great at accommodating _people_.
        
             | steve_adams_86 wrote:
             | I think it goes both ways, but I agree, we're mostly bad at
             | making software work well for human beings.
             | 
             | I do think people have individual limitations though, and
             | eventually complexity becomes exceedingly difficult to hide
             | being a well designed user interface. That's not their
             | fault though, and I worry that we don't consider this often
             | enough as we race towards higher technology. We're
             | definitely leaving people behind.
        
         | jahewson wrote:
         | > refuse to add functionality to the OS and keep it overly
         | crippled/restricted.
         | 
         | Is this your opinion or was there any feedback from those 5
         | users?
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | Programming on the iPad was OK, in the sense that Blink Shell
         | is a better ssh client than PuTTY, and I don't want to carry my
         | desktop around with me. Eventually I switched back to a Linux
         | 2-in-1 laptop -- it is nice to be able to run GUI applications
         | locally, but it is nowhere near as good a tablet as an iPad
         | despite whatever tweaking I try...
        
           | cute_boi wrote:
           | actually many people don't use putty and recommending putty
           | in 2022 is not that good. Windows terminal etc can easily do
           | ssh without any hassles.
        
         | wilg wrote:
         | I don't even understand the advantage of an iPad for non-
         | drawing work. It's just a worse laptop with a too-small
         | keyboard that can fall off and a square screen so it's not good
         | to watch video on and an OS that doesn't do anything well. But
         | Mac laptops are amazing, run all the same software, and don't
         | have any of these problems.
        
           | alistairSH wrote:
           | I have an iPad Pro M1 11" with the Magic Keyboard.
           | 
           | It doesn't fall off or detach unexpectedly at all. And the
           | keyboard size is close enough to "normal" that I don't notice
           | for normal typing. The only thing I miss is a dedicated ESC
           | key.
           | 
           | All that said, it only replaced my personal laptop. I
           | continue to use a 13" MBP at work.
        
             | 1123581321 wrote:
             | You can map caps lock to esc on the Magic Keyboard.
        
             | wilg wrote:
             | But why do you prefer this over a laptop?
        
               | alistairSH wrote:
               | For personal use... I like the size, it's a bit more
               | portable than a 13" laptop (0.5lb lighter with Magic
               | Keyboard, 2.7lb lighter on its own), smaller footprint).
               | It does everything I need (surfing, streaming, email,
               | FaceTime).
               | 
               | Would I be happy with a 13" MBA as my personal device?
               | Sure. I basically flipped a coin - the iPad won because
               | shiny new thing.
               | 
               | For work, inability to run Docker/VMs and install VSCode
               | is a deal breaker.
        
           | themagician wrote:
           | I can't adapt to the workflow on an iPad either, and I have
           | tried. I have _really_ tried. However, I have seen other that
           | have. To them the iPad is easy and macOS is overly
           | complicated.
           | 
           | I am not sure if general computing is changing or there are
           | now two branches, but I have watched other people do things
           | on iPads that I consider impossible. Even simple things, like
           | working in Excel, I find challenging on an iPad. But when I
           | watch someone else who sort of "grew up" on iOS work in Excel
           | on an iPad they are like some kind of wizard. I have found
           | myself more than once now asking someone, "How did you do
           | that?" feelsbadman.jpg
           | 
           | I think a lot comes down to muscle memory and shortcuts.
           | While I know many/most of the shortcuts on iPadOS they are
           | not automatic for me the way they are on macOS. I often have
           | to think, "Wait... how do I do this on the iPad again," for
           | even simple things. I even find drawing applications
           | unintuitive. In the Adobe suite everything is explicit. In
           | Procreate everything is unlabeled. This is even true in
           | consumer applications, like Facebook vs Snapchat. Pinch here,
           | tap there. Swipe from one of the four sides to reveal some
           | function that is completely hidden. But for some people this
           | is intuitive. There is an additional layer (or two) of UI
           | abstraction in iOS/iPadOS that I have not internalized.
           | 
           | There definitely ARE some things you can't do on an iPad, but
           | that list is actually shorter than you might think. There are
           | a lot of things that you can do, they are just done
           | differently... and in a way that, at least for me, seems to
           | take a lot more work. But for others they are like, "Eww, why
           | do I have to look for an icon and move the cursor over to it
           | when I can just..." and then they proceed to input what is
           | essentially sign language into the screen while holding down
           | a modifier key.
        
           | thih9 wrote:
           | Work is not always about content creation, some people work
           | mostly by consuming content (reading websites, browsing
           | photos, selecting movie clips, navigating PDFs, or something
           | else) and iPad is great for consuming content.
        
         | tshaddox wrote:
         | I can't speak to how Apple attempts to make deals with schools
         | and workplaces, but their normal consumer marketing seems to
         | pretty clearly highlight the differences between a MacBook and
         | an iPad. If anything they seem to go out of their way to
         | maintain significant differences in the two operating systems
         | (which, ironically, is also a very popular complaint in tech
         | circles).
        
         | micromacrofoot wrote:
         | Makes a lot more sense if you consider the idea that "pro" has
         | become a luxury designation rather than the audience they're
         | marketing towards.
        
         | Terretta wrote:
         | On the contrary, I have owned MacBook Pros from the first to
         | the last 17", then again every model since the 16". I also have
         | iPad Pro with magic keyboard and touch pad. I don't travel with
         | the MacBook any more, as I can do anything from the iPad. But
         | it's not just me.
         | 
         | I've also been CTO at mega bank and hedge funds where we've
         | rolled these out along side laptops. I've found that after
         | initial objections, folks tend to agree. After a month or two,
         | white collars who are not devs generally have switched to
         | carrying the iPads, not laptops. Then the support costs
         | basically go to zero, which matters a good deal at scale.
         | 
         | Users do have to think differently. That's ROUGH. Employees
         | will ask for their old thing back if it changes their workflow,
         | period. (See the book "Who Moved My Cheese?")
         | 
         | If they just use it, they generally find out it's fine. Could
         | even be argued the Office / Teams ecosystem is superior.
         | 
         | Bonus: Letting employees have TWO screens (MacBook + iPad) also
         | gives them two retina class monitors, portable, fantastic for
         | hoteling or remote work or work from home. Two screens are
         | better than one, and two that go with you are amazing. The new
         | keyboard/cursor sharing while each device runs its own apps,
         | with copy paste and drag drop between them is even cooler. In
         | this model, the iPad Pro can become a Teams or Slack device,
         | for instance, while other work stays on Mac, so you just wander
         | off to a meeting with your collaboration tools intact. Instead
         | of picking up where you left off, you just pick up and go.
        
           | scoopertrooper wrote:
           | Thing that really kills iPad for me is the web browsing
           | experience. I just find iOS Safari so limiting.
           | 
           | It's also needlessly slow (considering M1). I suspect they
           | have some optimisations designed for memory constrained
           | devices like iPhone tuned in the same way for iPad.
           | 
           | Also ad blocker support is limited.
           | 
           | Oh and in a lot of video calling apps, if I try and browse
           | something in Safari while the meeting is happening, then I'll
           | suddenly stop sending video. Though that isn't strictly a
           | Safari issue, more a Apple holding back features from third-
           | party developer issue.
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | I prefer Safari on iOS and macOS because it is so limiting
             | that I assume it is helping conserve battery. With Wipr
             | content blocker, I never see ads and it is generally pretty
             | fast.
        
             | Terretta wrote:
             | > _Also ad blocker support is limited._
             | 
             | Try 1Blocker or AdGuard Pro. And similar limits (for
             | similar "this shouldn't run that there" reasons) just
             | arrived for the Chromium family.
             | 
             | > _needlessly slow_
             | 
             | I tend to find that when I notice slowness, I have several
             | hundred tabs open, approaching the 500 tab limit. Save all
             | tabs to bookmarks, close all tabs, and I find it's as
             | "snappy" as the new iOS meme. (Related? New device, no
             | tabs? Hmmm...)
             | 
             | Super annoying this hasn't been resolved since introduction
             | of cloud synced tabs.
        
               | anhner wrote:
               | > And similar limits (for similar "this shouldn't run
               | that there" reasons) just arrived for the Chromium
               | family.
               | 
               | If only there were another browser other than Safari and
               | Chromium that didn't have those limitations...
        
             | alistairSH wrote:
             | AdGuard Pro seems to block ads well on iOS/iPadOS. I
             | haven't noticed the browsing experience to be any slower on
             | my iPad Pro M1 than on my 13" Intel MBP.
        
             | THENATHE wrote:
             | Orion let's you run full chrome and Firefox addons in iOS
             | and iPadOS. No joke
        
               | johnfernow wrote:
               | That's incredible, thanks for sharing! Looks like it's
               | still working on supporting some APIs (claims to
               | currently support about 70% of Web Extensions APIs), and
               | so far both the Firefox and Chrome NoScript extension
               | don't appear to work for me on iOS, but that's awesome
               | that they're working on adding support for Chrome and
               | Firefox addons. I'll definitely keep an eye on this
               | project.
        
               | THENATHE wrote:
               | Currently the ublock origin and dark reader I have tried
               | with the Firefox extensions work very well, but I haven't
               | tried any others so it is good to know.
               | 
               | As it stands right now, there is essentially no windows
               | support or support for the various browser sync plugins,
               | but both of those are on the way. The main developer
               | seems like a nice dude, and I've had a chat with him on
               | Reddit a couple times so it is definitely a VERY active
               | project.
        
               | lbotos wrote:
               | If you want to be my hero, can you try to install this
               | extension on Orion on iPad
               | 
               | https://github.com/WaldiPL/playbackSpeed
               | 
               | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/playback-
               | spee...
               | 
               | And let me know if it works on say a youtube video with
               | speeds above 3x?
        
               | THENATHE wrote:
               | I don't actually have an iPad, only iPhone. But if you
               | give me a couple of hours I will do so and reply to your
               | comment with my results
        
             | nomel wrote:
             | > then I'll suddenly stop sending video
             | 
             | Does this happen to be with low power mode enabled?
        
           | hartator wrote:
           | > Two screens are better than one
           | 
           | Seems annoying actually.
        
           | alexwasserman wrote:
           | Ran a similar play recently and found a similar result.
           | 
           | Can't understate how much people want the nice/fancy/pro
           | device too. It's hard to lure people off MBPs to generic PC
           | laptops or chromebooks but an iPad Pro + magic keyboard is
           | shiny enough.
           | 
           | Not just lower support cost, but much higher security bar at
           | a lower cost too. Having been at the same fund, and other big
           | banks, that's an important consideration. Strong MDM, yubikey
           | support if you want it, decent app sandboxing, etc. gives a
           | lot of security control in a nicer manner than on a desktop
           | OS.
           | 
           | Finally, I think the Office/GSuite issue depends so much on
           | usecase and who's using which bits of each suite. Gmail is so
           | much nicer than Outlook, but GDrive horrible organizationally
           | compared to OneDrive, while GDocs collab beats O365, etc.
        
           | danielmarkbruce wrote:
           | >> Then the support costs basically go to zero, which matters
           | a good deal at scale.
           | 
           | Genuine question - what is the biggest time sink/cost for
           | support on laptops? Put another way, exactly why do support
           | costs drop so much with the ipads?
        
             | Lio wrote:
             | I remember a project in the early 00s at a place I was
             | working. They were rolling out Windows tablets to
             | installation engineers[1].
             | 
             | The justification was to reduce breakages to the screen and
             | hinge of laptops[2]. It sounds daft but apparently it was
             | not uncommon for people to leave their van keys on the
             | keyboard and then shut the lid on them.
             | 
             | By switching to tablets they hoped to get rid of that
             | failure mode.
             | 
             | I imagine that's quite specific but just having less moving
             | parts will increase reliability in a large organisation. A
             | keyboard on a ThinkPad might be easy to change if it fails
             | but a keyboard an iPad will be even easier as it's not
             | attached permanently.
             | 
             | 1. In this particular case that means people in hard hats
             | and high viz going up telephone poles and into holes in the
             | ground all day.
             | 
             | 2. Standard issue at the time was Panasonic ToughBooks.
        
           | agentdrtran wrote:
           | I cannot imagine doing my job on on iPad, it's way too
           | limited. can you open more than one google doc at a time yet?
           | run desktop extensions on the web? open complex sheets/excel
           | files? I have no idea what job other than sending emails and
           | being on video calls all day could work on an ipad.
        
             | dagmx wrote:
             | Yes to all of those and they've been supported for years
             | with the slight caveat that extensions are more limited and
             | need to be provided by an app
        
               | LegitShady wrote:
               | also the caveat that excel/sheets is not good on ipad.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | roody15 wrote:
           | " I don't travel with the MacBook any more, as I can do
           | anything from the iPad. But it's not just me."
           | 
           | Interesting, how long have you been iPad Pro only? At the
           | price point of the iPad pro with a keyboard and touch-pad..
           | why not just buy a laptop like the MacBook Air?
           | 
           | Hauling around an iPad pro with a touchpad.. and an external
           | keyboard seems less convenient than just using something like
           | the MacBook Air. Unless I am missing something here.
        
             | terminalcommand wrote:
             | I am a lawyer, my boss uses an ipad pro heavily for work.
             | He usually does not have much time to work on stuff, we
             | mail him the contracts, documents etc., he marks them up
             | with digital pen with his comments and sends it to us to
             | revise. He finds it extremely productive. He can give
             | instructions on the go, even while physically walking to a
             | meeting room.
             | 
             | Prior to the ipad pro, we literally took printouts and
             | handed it to the boss for his comments. He doesn't bother
             | with word comments. Many older senior lawyers who learned
             | the practice before word processors still work this way.
             | 
             | For jobs not requiring much typing and special software,
             | iPad pro can be a good addition.
             | 
             | For replacing my work computer, oh no.
             | 
             | If I were provisioned an ipad pro, I'd use it to read and
             | markup contracts, look up legislation, occasionally jump
             | into calls and I'd be pretty happy. I could work on my
             | commute, quickly review documents and respond in off-hours
             | etc. instead of carrying a laptop. The IT provisioned
             | laptop takes ages to boot up, heavier and more fragile than
             | an ipad.
             | 
             | Another problem is that screen and keyboard doesn't quite
             | replace pen and paper in my industry. I switched to Onenote
             | from using a paper notebook during remote working and I
             | miss taking notes on paper greatly. I frequently miss parts
             | in contracts when I read on the screen and have to be extra
             | careful. If I were in the office, I usually printed these
             | out. I knew a senior lawyer who wanted us to print out
             | every piece of related legislation so that she could work
             | on it. She refused to read them on computer.
             | 
             | iPad pro could be highly beneficial for low-tech human mind
             | driven industries such as law.
             | 
             | I know there is AI, I am grateful for redlines and spell
             | checkers, but the computer screen and keyboard interface
             | lacks in some ways.
        
               | wlesieutre wrote:
               | I'm in an architecture adjacent company and often deal
               | with PDF drawing sets. When I get a 400 page PDF with
               | E-size pages and I'm trying to look through a whole
               | building to find or count something in it, I send those
               | right over to the iPad.
               | 
               | Now that I think about it, displaying gigantic PDFs is
               | probably the most performance intensive thing I use it
               | for, and the iPad Pro is _very_ fast at it.
        
               | boppo1 wrote:
               | What do you use for giant PDFs? I have some textbooks on
               | mine, but nothing performs/functions as well as readera
               | does on my android phone.
        
               | wlesieutre wrote:
               | I've found PDF Viewer from PSPDFKit GmbH to perform very
               | well, though I also sometimes use Documents by Readdle
               | which lets me do things like reorder pages without a
               | subscription.
               | 
               | Not sure if Documents is still that way for new users or
               | only because I paid for it back before everything under
               | the sun turned into a subscription.
        
               | boppo1 wrote:
               | Thanks!
        
               | massysett wrote:
               | Heh - I am a lawyer too. One of my old bosses didn't
               | budge off paper even during covid. We had to email him
               | PDFs of drafts so he could read them on his iPad and
               | occasionally he would print them. If he had comments or
               | revisions, he would print the draft, write his comments,
               | and then use his iPhone as a makeshift scanner (no
               | scanner app - he would just take pictures.)
               | 
               | Once in a paper file I had the only example of A4 paper
               | I've ever seen - I'm an American. He was traveling in
               | Europe and we had to send the draft to his hotel so they
               | could print it and give it to him. He wrote comments on
               | it and brought it back.
               | 
               | I'm not of his generation but I think I'd find an iPad
               | pretty useless for work. I print most things I need to
               | review so that I can read the closely and scrawl notes on
               | them, though if I need to give the notes to someone else
               | I put them into Word or on a PDF - but after printing it.
               | I find it too cumbersome to review documents on the
               | computer.
               | 
               | The most I could use an iPad for is a second screen to
               | look up statutes and cases and the like, or just to read
               | emails - but it's too limiting even for emails. In
               | Windows I drag emails to folders to save them, and I take
               | notes with Notepad, go look stuff up in the browser, etc.
               | The iPad is just too limiting.
        
               | gnicholas wrote:
               | Former lawyer here. iPads make much more sense for senior
               | partners than for associates or junior partners. They're
               | reviewing documents and writing emails, not composing
               | long memos or doing intensive legal research on the web.
               | The battery life and "boot time" differential are great
               | for senior folks who don't need a desktop environment.
               | 
               | I don't think this dichotomy maps onto technical roles,
               | since there are more technical things you can't do on an
               | iPad, but it's worth recognizing how much iPads can be a
               | game-changer for some of the most senior people in
               | organizations.
        
               | Finnucane wrote:
               | >Many older senior lawyers who learned the practice
               | before word processors
               | 
               | Considering how long ago that is, they must be pretty
               | old. I mean, I'm 58 and I can just barely remember that
               | time.
        
               | gnicholas wrote:
               | I talked to a lawyer in his 70s about this. He liked the
               | way that dictating forced him to consider his thoughts in
               | advance and speak in paragraphs. Technology has made
               | dictation/typing pools unnecessary, but it's worth
               | considering the ways that it might have led to benefits
               | that we currently miss out on.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | lancesells wrote:
               | I've kind of found this with certain reporting that I
               | used to automate. I used to be of mind that everything
               | that can be automated should be automated. I've come to
               | realize it's a big mistake as it limits my processing of
               | information. Even cutting and pasting can have me
               | thinking about something more than automating.
        
               | terminalcommand wrote:
               | They are not young :). I live outside of US so technology
               | might have come a bit later to us. And law is an industry
               | that does not like change that much.
        
             | jxdxbx wrote:
             | I'm a lawyer and I also only travel with, and can do a lot
             | (but not all) of my work on an iPad. I probably spend more
             | on my iPad Pro + keyboard than I would for a laptop. But
             | the iPad is also my primary e-reader, I watch movies on it,
             | I take note on it legal pad style, etc. Google apps all
             | suck on iOS so I don't use them. I occasionally remote in
             | to a desktop for this or that, but less frequently.
             | 
             | I mostly find that nerds who don't like iPads have opinions
             | that are like 5 years out of date. Trackpad support is
             | great on iPads. The Files app is all I need on a portable
             | device for file management. I can use any USB device I ever
             | want (though in practice, I never do).
        
             | derefr wrote:
             | For travelling specifically:
             | 
             | * The Magic Keyboard acts as its own case for the iPad Pro.
             | I wouldn't keep a bare laptop in my bag, but I _would_
             | throw the iPad-Pro-in-keyboard-case in there.
             | 
             | * The iPad (any iPad) is better for reading books, watching
             | movies, and all the other stuff you do more of on
             | planes/trains/automobiles, than a laptop is. The Keyboard
             | Case holds the iPad up in the air by about two inches
             | (getting the screen closer to your eyeline without
             | straining your neck), and then lets you further position
             | the screen at strange angles (e.g. "inward") for better
             | viewing -- angles you _can 't_ really adjust a laptop to.
             | And if you want to read a PDF, a graphic novel, or anything
             | else designed to be viewed vertically, you can, at full
             | size -- just pick it up and turn it. (Maybe pull the case
             | off to make it lighter, if you're going to be reading for
             | hours.) Basically, the same logic behind bringing a
             | purpose-designed e-reader device.
             | 
             | * If you have a Pencil to go with it, it can also be a
             | reusable piece of paper with infinite "template" content
             | pre-loaded -- since you can arbitrarily mark up any PDF or
             | image in the Files app, you can just load on a PDF of
             | coloring-book pages, and now it's a coloring book; or grab
             | a PDF of crossword puzzles, and now it's a crossword
             | puzzle. No purpose-made apps required for either. (If you
             | draw as a hobby, it can be your sketchbook, too; sadly, I'm
             | no artist.) In other words, bringing an iPad also replaces
             | packing those dimestore "activity books", and/or a notebook
             | + actual pencil.
             | 
             | * iPads (or really any convertable / 2-in-1, where you can
             | fold away the angled keyboard part of the computer) are
             | great for showing people the stuff you do / giving people
             | demos -- which is something you might be doing a lot at
             | conferences, if that's why you travel. This is a pretty
             | unique use-case; tablets themselves are really "the thing"
             | for this. They maybe replaced... handing out brochures?
             | Having a glossy explainer book printed, and then packing
             | that? Bringing a portable projector + slides?
             | 
             | * Kind of like the recent revival of "intentional
             | dumbphones" that encourage "unplugging", the iPad is
             | designed in a way that still _allows_ for productive work,
             | but makes it less fluid. I _can_ SSH into prod from an
             | iPad, but I don 't want to do it for a minute longer than I
             | have to. If you're travelling _on vacation_ , this could
             | keep you focused on relaxing, in a way you might not be if
             | you have a laptop along, tempting you to spend eight hours
             | ignoring your wife and kids to squeeze out that new feature
             | that popped into your head.
             | 
             | Notice that none of those are benefits of the iPad _Pro_
             | specifically. I don 't think that, for at least my use
             | case, there's really much I'd get from an "iPad Pro with
             | Keyboard Case" over an "iPad Air with Keyboard Case." Mind
             | you, I _have_ an iPad Pro... but I bought it because I had
             | the money, and wanted the beautiful color-calibrated
             | display; not because the Air wouldn 't have suited my use-
             | case just fine. (Though, when I bought it -- 2019 -- they
             | weren't yet selling the Keyboard Case for the Air.)
        
             | Terretta wrote:
             | > _At the price point of the iPad pro with a keyboard and
             | touch-pad.. why not just buy a laptop like the MacBook
             | Air?_
             | 
             | 1. cellular + eSIM, missing from Air (WHY, Apple, why?)
             | 
             | 2. detaches into perfect touchscreen tablet, Air doesn't
             | 
             | 3. Apple Pencil (requires "Paperlike" for texture):
             | https://paperlike.com
             | 
             | 4. it's a great second screen in either extend desktop or
             | keyboard/mouse mode
             | 
             | > _Hauling around an iPad pro with a touchpad.. and an
             | external keyboard_
             | 
             | No, the keyboard is the case, you have no sense of carrying
             | a second thing. In fact, it's a magnetic dock, you USB-C
             | charge through a port in the hinge, iPad pops on and off
             | mag-safe style.
        
               | adastra22 wrote:
               | Interesting, I hadn't heard of Paperlike. I'll have to
               | give it a try.
        
               | dbdoug wrote:
               | Paperlike is pretty pricey. I bought a similar screen
               | cover on Amazon Canada by Bellmond for CAD$20. Works
               | great!
        
           | j-krieger wrote:
           | The fact that you can do all your work on an iPad as well as
           | you could do it on a Laptop may say more about your work than
           | the devices. I do not mean this in an insulting way, but
           | perhaps your work is so disconnected from technology or the
           | creative process that you could do it, no matter the device
           | you're using?
        
           | swah wrote:
           | Are you talking about second screen as in Sidecar - or just
           | to open the same app that you would use a Macbook for - eg
           | Slack, email?
        
           | JAlexoid wrote:
           | The biggest drawback of iPad OS is lack of windows, to drag
           | around.If you don't need to multitask - iPad is OK.
           | 
           | I tried going all iPad and my husband opted for iPad Pro as
           | personal computer - it is woefully underutilized.
           | 
           | "And that's not just me"
        
             | Terretta wrote:
             | > _biggest drawback of iPad OS is lack of windows, to drag
             | around_
             | 
             | First thing productivity users do to a Win or Mac laptop is
             | install a windows manager so they _don 't_ drag windows
             | around.
             | 
             | iPad Pro in its landscape dock provides split screen with
             | adjustable ratio, as well as left and right floats, along
             | with swipe between desktops, as well as push to view and
             | pick a diff app. One app wide, one app narrow, tends to put
             | the narrow app in iPhone UI, which is pretty ideal, better
             | than desktop where windows refuse to get narrow.
             | 
             | You can drive iPad with a magic touch pad beautifully. I
             | suspect this workflow management is behind some of the
             | gesture convergence in Ventura and iOS 16.
        
               | Scharkenberg wrote:
               | > First thing productivity users do to a Win or Mac
               | laptop is install a windows manager so they _don 't_ drag
               | windows around.
               | 
               | Interesting point of view, but I must either live in a
               | parallel universe or know no "productivity users"
               | (whatever that is supposed to mean) then. Windows' window
               | management features cut it for 99.9% of Windows users,
               | and the rest use PowerToys Fancy Zones or something of
               | that sort.
        
               | asdff wrote:
               | IMO productivity users are mostly lemmings. MacOS has
               | plenty of good tooling built in to manage windows and
               | desktop environments. A tiling window manager makes a lot
               | of sense with cli based tools but for gui based tools imo
               | becomes annoying fast. Especially when most websites
               | these days will serve you a mobile website depending on
               | the dimensions of your viewport.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _don 't travel with the MacBook any more, as I can do
           | anything from the iPad_
           | 
           | This is what everyone I know with both devices does. I still
           | prefer my Mac, but I'm in the minority in the under-fifty
           | crowd.
        
           | thefz wrote:
           | Maybe it's just me, but I can't think doing any meaningful
           | work without access to the filesystem.
        
             | cube2222 wrote:
             | What do you mean with "filesystem" specifically, that isn't
             | available on iPads?
             | 
             | There's the Files app.
        
               | bluescrn wrote:
               | But very few apps built to work files/folders.
               | 
               | Image files?.... they obviously want to be mixed in with
               | your photos!
               | 
               | Media files?.... you don't want those!, would you like to
               | subscribe to Apple Music?
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | What apps don't work with the Files App that it would
               | make sense for?
        
               | bluescrn wrote:
               | Well, transferring files between an iPhone and a Windows
               | PC is still far more of a pain than it should be.
               | 
               | Still can't just treat the phone as a drive and put files
               | on there.
               | 
               | (edit: or trivially share a folder on the LAN over wifi,
               | without even needing the USB cable, if you're considering
               | the iOS device a 'real computer')
        
               | ja27 wrote:
               | Seems pretty simple with iCloud for Windows.
        
               | bluescrn wrote:
               | So transferring a file between 2 local devices should
               | require sending it to a cloud server and back?
        
               | cube2222 wrote:
               | To be fair, apple devices have airdrop for transferring
               | files, which works much more seemlessly than any kind of
               | network drives I've ever used (and I'm using one right
               | now).
               | 
               | The interface exposed is just not mounting a remote file
               | system.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | You can't connect a laptop to another laptop and treat it
               | like a drive. Why expect anything different from a phone
               | that's really a computer?
        
               | bluescrn wrote:
               | If it was a real computer with a 'real OS', I'd be able
               | to easily set up network shares and transfer files over
               | wifi, without even plugging a cable in.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | Well _I_ can transfer files wirelessly via AirDrop to my
               | Mac.
               | 
               | You can do it with a third party app
               | 
               | https://mobiletrans.wondershare.com/iphone-
               | transfer/transfer...
        
               | neoberg wrote:
               | In the same way you can't treat a laptop as a drive and
               | put files on there (transfer from another pc); because
               | it's not a drive.
        
               | cube2222 wrote:
               | Any concrete examples?
               | 
               | As far as image processing apps, I've been using
               | procreate and affinity designer. Both use the file system
               | and not the photos app.
               | 
               | As far as audio processing, apple's own garage band app
               | works natively with audio files and lets you slice and
               | dice them.
        
               | thefz wrote:
               | Does it allow you to have access to the whole fileystem,
               | unrestricted access?
        
               | flavmartins wrote:
               | I think the arguments is non-developers don't really need
               | access to it.
               | 
               | You aren't configuring anything or doing anything that
               | needs access to the file system.
               | 
               | You are simply interacting with documents and online
               | systems/applications that you can do the same as on a
               | laptop. Add the greater mobility and the iPad pro really
               | is a better device for most people.
               | 
               | However, as another commenter mentioned, these
               | individuals who SHOULD really benefit from using an iPad
               | primarily also are the group that struggle greatly with
               | the changes to their overall workflow (see Who Moved My
               | Cheese).
        
               | asdff wrote:
               | Thats kind of a poor argument that just self fulfils
               | itself. If we mask things like the filesystem and the
               | actual shell, then of course no one will really need to
               | use it. If we unmask these things, maybe paradigms will
               | shift and they will themselves use these things.
               | 
               | IMO so few people know how to code because we have been
               | abstracting it for years, not because its tough to do or
               | anything like that. Plenty of things people do are just
               | as challenging as coding. You just need exposure to
               | coding is all, its easy to write bash or python. Anyone
               | could do it in a week. Hard to get that exposure when a
               | company decides it won't be possible for you, and its a
               | slap in the face considering these features are there in
               | the device but you have to jailbreak the damn thing and
               | violate your warranty to get at them.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | >Hard to get that exposure when a company decides it
               | won't be possible for you,
               | 
               | The company decided it was not possible using a specific
               | product. You decided to use a product where it was not
               | possible.
        
               | asdff wrote:
               | If you are not the most technologically inclined person,
               | its really the company's marketing that is choosing the
               | product rather than you. Its true with any product you
               | lack relevant knowledge in, marketing becomes the
               | dominant factor of choice beyond tooling that you don't
               | fully yet understand. I think what is especially
               | frustrating in this case, is that these capabilities are
               | already there built into the device, they are just not
               | exposed unless you jailbreak the device.
        
               | cube2222 wrote:
               | My MacBook doesn't either, with system integrity
               | protection, and I'm just fine with it.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | What do you need with unrestricted access to the root
               | file system?
        
               | freeplay wrote:
               | It allows access to a filesystem, just not the root
               | filesystem.
               | 
               | You can do all the basic copy/cut/paste ops and create
               | whatever folder structure you want. Don't expect to edit
               | system files though. People spend lots of time looking
               | for vulnerabilities to achieve that.
        
               | frosted-flakes wrote:
               | The iOS file system is very frustrating. By default,
               | applications can only access individual files in their
               | own sandbox, and if you want to point an application to a
               | folder of media, you can't--it's simply not possible, or
               | if it is it's so burdensome that it's simply not
               | practical. Least of all for images, which for some reason
               | are not accessible from the Files application and have to
               | be manually exported from the photo gallery app, and
               | music, which is not accessible _at all_ : you need to
               | clumsily use Apple's proprietary sync program on an
               | _actual_ computer.
               | 
               | In contrast, Android also doesn't let you access the root
               | file system, but the user folder is _yours_ to do
               | whatever the hell you want with, and if you want to give
               | your audiobook or music app to your folder of mp3 files
               | that you 've collected over the years, you can.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | I know people who are laptop power users who are fine
           | traveling with just a tablet and an external keyboard. (They
           | still use a laptop when they're not traveling.)
           | 
           | Good for them but I've never been able to make it work for
           | me. I'll just carry the extra weight. But, to your point,
           | it's also true that, beyond getting an external keyboard,
           | I've never really committed to making a tablet work for me as
           | my only travel device (other than a phone).
        
           | jiveturkey wrote:
           | > Instead of picking up where you left off, you just pick up
           | and go.
           | 
           | Completely lost me. You don't logout, close all your windows,
           | and so on, when you undock/unplug and go mobile. I never have
           | a problem picking up and going with my laptop, then coming
           | back to my desk right how I left it. And the 27" monitors
           | (32" also common here) are far, far better for productivity
           | and dev work than a 13" ipad HDR screen. iPad is a poor
           | choice for a 2nd screen.
        
           | pinot wrote:
           | Anything in the gSuite is terrible on iPadOS. Excel is also
           | fairly crippled. I can't see how it's usable at all.
           | 
           | Even just for emailing, GMail at least is a terrible
           | application on iPad. For examples, cannot format anything, or
           | view one email while writing another (that isn't a reply).
           | 
           | I primarily use mine for
           | 
           | * Note taking
           | 
           | * Browsing/showing PDFs in a construction engineering
           | setting. Nothing is faster or as flexible.
           | 
           | * Sketching for construction drawings
           | 
           | But the lack of good tabular worksheet and emails beyond
           | quick replies pushes me back to my laptop all the time.
        
             | samatman wrote:
             | Google seems bound and determined to make their user
             | experience on Apple products as painful as possible,
             | perhaps in the misguided belief that if we see how awful
             | their products are, we'll want to switch to their native
             | operating system.
             | 
             | Main effect for me has been to drop them like a steaming
             | deuce, but not everyone has the luxury.
        
             | jandrese wrote:
             | Excel is almost guaranteed to be a terrible fit for iPad.
             | Data import/export has always been a weak point with the
             | iOS and the many of the use cases for Excel are data
             | crunching. If you are pulling out the keyboard and mouse
             | regularly then a laptop seems less awkward.
        
             | jmole wrote:
             | I disagree, I think there are 4 good GSuite apps on iPadOS:
             | GMail, Meet, Calendar, and Drive.
             | 
             | With the magic floaty keyboard, even long emails feel fine
             | on iPad.
             | 
             | Unfortunately, Docs, Slides & Sheets are pretty terrible,
             | and fall far short of the desktop experience. For those
             | apps, a Chromebook would be a much better choice. If only
             | they made Chromebooks with trackpads as good as Apple's
             | laptops, or even as good as the magic floaty keyboard.
        
               | lucisferre wrote:
               | Meet is in my experience worse than Zoom and Teams, and
               | with the latter that is saying something.
               | 
               | Gmail and Calendar are great. Drive is also sub-par in
               | experience when compared to Dropbox (probably Box as well
               | though I've not used it)
               | 
               | Oddly Sheets is the only one I like. It is good enough
               | for most use cases and simpler and easier to use than
               | Excel.
               | 
               | I've never even considered using Docs or Slides.
        
               | posguy wrote:
               | Office 365 is hard for most organizations to switch from,
               | since the overall package is a set of tools that are
               | generally better than the Gsuite competition.
               | 
               | Some MSPs I work with make good money just converting
               | businesses from Gsuite to Office 365. I don't use either
               | platform personally or at my work, but I understand why
               | Microsoft is eating the SaaS email & baseline office
               | tools market.
        
               | pinot wrote:
               | I wouldn't say gmail is good if the compose button floats
               | on top of my inbox, a new message opens up in a modal and
               | covers anything you're trying to read/refer to. No format
               | buttons.
               | 
               | Sheets is terrible. Cannot use the magic keyboard to
               | shift your active cell (ie click a cell, type = and use
               | arrow keys to find the cell you want to reference.. it
               | just quits the cell).
        
             | rodgerd wrote:
             | > Anything in the gSuite is terrible on iPadOS.
             | 
             | Yes, well, monopolies will generally try to sabotage
             | competitors.
        
               | hdlothia wrote:
               | Is gsuite even ahead of office?
        
             | zerkten wrote:
             | Lots of people only look at data. A crippled mobile version
             | that permit read access is good for an awful lot of people.
             | 
             | Let's look at pharma. They have a ton of sales reps and
             | relatively few people in tech roles supporting them.
             | Similarly, they have folks in scientific roles that push
             | all software to the limits with a few people supporting
             | them. The use cases of the sales reps are very well catered
             | for on iPad and reps make up a lot of the user population.
             | They present products to customers (eDetailing), have some
             | basic data entry (CRM), might browse a range of reporting,
             | and do some email. Email is critical, but as a sales
             | director, that's not where you want your reps spending
             | time. A limited experience somewhat helps just reply or
             | move on.
             | 
             | I make no claims that this is sufficient for sales
             | directors or scientific staff. It is however very well
             | suited to some of these roles. It's also very reliable,
             | cost effective, and easy to provision. It's unfortunate
             | that laptops end up being so complicated in comparison for
             | this audience.
        
             | yamtaddle wrote:
             | I gsuite good _anywhere_? It 's not good in the browser on
             | desktop/laptop devices, certainly.
             | 
             | I have noticed they cut tons of features from the iOS
             | versions and keep you from using the site if they're
             | installed (and maybe even if they're not? That's _got_ to
             | be how I ended up with them installed, I wouldn 't have
             | done it by choice), which is super annoying and makes no
             | sense since I'm sure it's all the same webtech crap as the
             | "real" sites, just wrapped so it's "native".
        
               | posguy wrote:
               | The Gmail app ate multiple gigs of ram and repeatedly
               | crashed on my prior two Android phones. Disabling it and
               | using an alternate mail client works much better.
        
               | pinot wrote:
               | My entire company (800+) runs on gsuite for better or
               | worse. At least in browser on desktop its functional.
        
               | rpastuszak wrote:
               | >I gsuite good anywhere? It's not good in the browser on
               | desktop/laptop devices, certainly.
               | 
               | Re web-tech: All iPad/iOS browsers run a low-perf version
               | of Safari under the hood. In my experience anything
               | Google seems sluggish on Safari. Frankly, I think that a
               | part of this is due to FUD (Safari is _not_ slow).
               | 
               | I still use FF and Safari for 99% of my browsing, but
               | certain sites just require me to use Chrome.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | I assume anything Google is extremely
               | energy/processor/RAM intensive and only consider it as a
               | last resort on battery powered devices.
        
           | debaserab2 wrote:
           | Why do the support costs go to zero? I would think iPads
           | would bring their own set of problems/hazards that laptops
           | may not have.
        
             | lazide wrote:
             | Unless you are a power user who manages to overload it so
             | severely it becomes unusable (not hard to do, if you're a
             | certain type of power user - unfortunately), it's basically
             | just a big iphone you can attach a keyboard too.
             | 
             | Much harder to actually break or make unusable than the
             | typical 5-10 yr old windows laptop from the lowest bidder
             | most people interact with.
        
             | theshrike79 wrote:
             | It's next to impossible to get an iPad to a non-working
             | state.
             | 
             | A creative user with a Windows laptop can do it easily
             | unless it's really tightly locked and controlled.
        
               | larrywright wrote:
               | And sometimes Windows just does that on its own.
        
             | Terretta wrote:
             | Basically, they're an appliance, and hard for a user to
             | screw up.
             | 
             | Of course it's not actually zero.
             | 
             | There's always someone whose finger can't poke things that
             | will ask where the mouse is, or why this stupid iPad
             | doesn't run Lotus 1,2,3 -- and you have to respect their
             | challenges. Or of course (rare) hardware faults, and you
             | have to provision a new one.
             | 
             | But the appliance-ness of it makes it a support dream.
        
             | tunesmith wrote:
             | I thought with an iPad you simply can't manage it remotely.
             | If you can, I want to know, because my father-in-law keeps
             | screwing up his iPad and I can't fix it without shipping it
             | back and forth.
        
               | JStanton617 wrote:
               | You need an MDM to manage it remotely. Something like
               | Jamf Now is $2/device/month. Not sure how much the
               | shipping costs, but might be break-even
        
               | JimDabell wrote:
               | Sure you can. Look into MDM services like Jamf Now.
        
               | Baeocystin wrote:
               | Splashtop will let you view an ipad's screen. It's fiddly
               | to start (remote user has to allow access, enable
               | broadcasting, etc every time, and this is a non-trivial
               | step to get over), but it does work, in the sense that
               | seeing the screen is faster than just guessing what is
               | going on as your panicked user pokes randomly at things
               | no matter what you say, leaving you with no context.
               | 
               | It _is_ functional enough to be useful, _if_ the other
               | person on the line is good at following instructions.
        
             | stocknoob wrote:
             | How much spyware have you seen gunking up the default
             | experience on an iPad? Compare this to a typical consumer
             | laptop.
        
           | cm2187 wrote:
           | I wonder who at mega bank and hedge fund isn't using excel...
           | 
           | My experience at mega bank is that the IT department is often
           | delusional about what business users actually do.
        
             | alexwasserman wrote:
             | There are plenty of depts with a good iPad use case,
             | typically those with very standard workflows and few apps.
             | 
             | Think about HR who just need Zoom/Meet/WebEx, Greenhouse
             | (or whatever ATS), and email+calendars.
             | 
             | Office admin, customer support, etc. all have simple needs
             | that benefit from a really nice, but easily controlled and
             | secured device.
             | 
             | Also, don't underestimate how much "the Spotify app works"
             | will entice people too.
             | 
             | Yeah, you won't convert all the quants, engineers, etc but
             | they aren't the target. That said, in my experience they
             | love the iPad as a second screen that's very portable, in
             | contrast to the high powered very unportable workstation.
             | 
             | The biggest factor for iPad adoption is really: "is there
             | an app". Particularly with SaaS tools there's often a
             | decent which lends itself to iPad usage.
        
           | bitL wrote:
           | IMO companies should give their employees one e-ink screen
           | instead to save their eyes. Most office-style work can be
           | done well on those screens and they are much healthier. I now
           | barely use paper as I use an A4 Onyx tablet with e-ink screen
           | and do most of my notes there. It's so much better than using
           | iPad for that.
        
           | jasonlotito wrote:
           | This isn't contrary. Quite the opposite. None of the cases
           | you present are iPad only. They are iPad alongside laptops.
           | They might find cases where the iPad is fine, but none are
           | iPad only.
           | 
           | And your "bonus" is basically an iPad Pro as a $1000+ chat
           | device.
           | 
           | Now, if you mean that they added an iPad Pro, and eventually
           | stopped ever using their laptop, that's a different story,
           | but that's not what you said in your comment.
        
           | truncate wrote:
           | I think for me a major bottleneck of using iPad as laptop is
           | that the screen is still gonna be on heavier compared to
           | keyboard, and the whole combo doesn't feel as solid and
           | sturdy as a good laptop does. iPad feel more physically free
           | in some ways (you can just use screen etc ...), and
           | physically restrictive in others (doesn't feel like one big
           | sturdy unit with keyboard).
           | 
           | That all aside, as an engineer it's too restrictive and less
           | fun. I'm sure it can get a lot of other non-programming
           | workflows done quite well though.
        
             | 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
             | People have been using MS Surface for years now. So top
             | heaviness is generally not an issue that impacts
             | productivity.
             | 
             | The magic keyboard works great. You can even get BT knock
             | offs for 1/3 the price. Works fine on your lap.
        
               | truncate wrote:
               | I'm not questioning the productivity but the feel of it,
               | if you care about that. It always feels natural to me
               | when weight distribution is heavier towards the keyboard.
               | 
               | I can't speak for Surface Laptop, which I think had a
               | bulky keyboard, but the the normal ones (I think was
               | called Pro), always felt weird. Obviously this all is
               | personal choice.
               | 
               | I think the overall point is, iPad is nice replacement
               | only if you are not going to be using keyboard much.
        
               | 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
               | I was referring to the Surface Pro. Forgot that the
               | laptop even existed. A better keyboard for the Pro would
               | be welcome but not a deal breaker.
               | 
               | The cantilever design iPad keyboards are indeed very
               | heavy to counter the tablet weight. Which brings the
               | total weight of an iPad with the keyboard to almost MB
               | Air weights.
               | 
               | The iPad is really crippled by software. Undoubtedly they
               | cannibalise their own sales by allowing MacOS to run on
               | iPads. But they have purposely killed off their own
               | product categories before. Having that dual mode device
               | is great.
        
         | cush wrote:
         | I don't think Apple is marketing it as heavily as you think at
         | replacing Workplace laptops, but moreso consumer laptops. iPad
         | is a delightfully simple device for consuming any kind of
         | media, editing photos and videos, light to medium gaming, and
         | doing little creative things.
        
         | derefr wrote:
         | > but refuse to add functionality to the OS and keep it overly
         | crippled/restricted
         | 
         | What would the point of "adding functionality to the OS" be? If
         | they wanted to put macOS on iPads, they'd just put macOS on
         | iPads.
         | 
         | My understanding at Apple's strategy here is that they're
         | simultaneously exploring two different GUI paradigms -- almost
         | pitting them against one-another to see which wins (or, if you
         | like, making a hedged bet):
         | 
         | * macOS, for building "Unix pipeline-like" workflows where you
         | point different programs-as-tools at the same document or take
         | one program's output as another's input. Apple encourages macOS
         | developers to make this kind of app.
         | 
         | * iPadOS, for building "all-in-one silo" workflows (think:
         | Photoshop, Garage Band, XCode), where the developer intends to
         | solve fully for a use-case, such that people with that use-case
         | can get by using _only_ their app. In these cases, rather than
         | interacting with other apps, a siloed app will _embed_ whatever
         | other accessory workflows a user might need, either directly
         | (e.g. XCode embedding a terminal console) or through plugins
         | (Photoshop plugins, Garage Band VST support.) The user might
         | use other apps _at the same time_ as this app, but not in a way
         | where the apps are sharing data or interacting in any way;
         | rather merely using each app to  "do what it does" -- e.g.
         | referencing a design diagram in Miro while implementing that
         | design in XCode, and writing down reminders in some reminders
         | app. (Thus, the iPadOS 16's Stage Manager, which assumes you
         | want several apps on screen at once, but doesn't implement
         | drag-and-drop between apps or any other kind of useful inter-
         | app interaction.)
         | 
         | As a user, as long as each user-story you have has been
         | _perfectly addressed_ by some particular siloed iPadOS app,
         | then iPadOS should work for you. (And there are a lot of people
         | whose user-stories _have_ all been perfectly addressed by these
         | siloed iPadOS apps -- mostly, people with boring, predictable,
         | _traditional_ workflows. Novelists; illustrators; business
         | executives; _possibly_ salespeople.)
         | 
         | However, if your workflow is niche or "constantly reinventing
         | itself" enough that nobody's ever going to make a siloed app
         | specifically for your needs, and so you expect to get things
         | done by throwing files between various different tools all day
         | -- then iPadOS is never going to work for you. You need a
         | desktop OS designed around that kind of thing.
        
           | Fiahil wrote:
           | > As a user, as long as each user-story you have has been
           | perfectly addressed by some particular siloed iPadOS app,
           | then iPadOS should work for you.
           | 
           | And then I tried sending a pdf by email. Oh well.
           | 
           | Can I share it on the corporate FTP ? Oh no.
           | 
           | Let me airdrop this to you... Wait... is this a windows /
           | android device ?
           | 
           | ...
           | 
           | Alright, I'll just use my laptop. My iPad is too niche for
           | this workflow.
        
             | ehutch79 wrote:
             | Do you actually have issues attaching a pdf to email on
             | iOS?
             | 
             | There are plenty of apps to upload stuff to FTP. If this
             | was an actual thing you used with any regularity, you'd
             | have something installed already if files isn't connecting
             | for you.
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | Well, MacOS won. Silos don't work, and they _especially_ don
           | 't work when Apple controls the means of distribution single-
           | handedly. MacOS has clutched onto a shred of relevance by
           | letting the user install package managers, download software
           | from the web, run software compilers, and so much more. There
           | is not a future where iPadOS "wins" and MacOS is slayed in
           | ritual combat, or something. It's _obviously not_ a contest,
           | and even by your own admission the separation of these OSes
           | is mostly arbitrary. Apple knows they 're gimping the iPad,
           | they're just expecting other people to not care.
           | 
           | Everyone would be happy if Apple focused more on perfecting
           | the iPad's hardware instead of pushing iPadOS to the brink.
           | An iPad with options to run MacOS, iPadOS or Linux would be
           | the knockout product-of-the-decade for Apple IMO. Judging by
           | the design of Monterey, I think iPad/Mac convergence seems
           | fairly likely.
        
             | tcmart14 wrote:
             | I don't think we would see full convergence. Apple does a
             | decent job at having classes of devices. What I could see
             | is, the top of the line iPad Pro converging with the
             | Macbook Air. The regular iPad, minis, etc will probably
             | stay with a relatively locked down iPadOS. You want an
             | "entry level" Apple laptop, you get an iPad Pro. But if
             | your work flow requires more, than you go with a Macbook
             | Pro, iMac, or Studio.
        
             | derefr wrote:
             | > There is not a future where iPadOS "wins" and MacOS is
             | slayed in ritual combat, or something.
             | 
             | Well, no, it's not about the Operating Systems; it's about
             | the UI paradigms themselves.
             | 
             | I believe that Apple is worried that the desktop WIMP UI
             | itself is going to be disrupted and fade into irrelevance
             | due to 1. "do everything on the web" devices like
             | Chromebooks, and 2. VR/AR productivity-workflow paradigms
             | that are yet to be formalized; and so they're trying to
             | find a successor to the WIMP UI, one that _will_ still be
             | relevant in 2040, even if /when the WIMP UI dies.
             | 
             | The distinction between iPads and Macs isn't arbitrary,
             | insofar as iPads don't _require_ a keyboard, and Macs do.
             | iPadOS (and iOS) apps have to be designed under the
             | assumption that a keyboard is optional; and that _really_
             | changes things about how an app can work. You can port apps
             | designed for keyboardless tablets to macOS just fine (and
             | as of the M1 you don 't even have to, you can just install
             | them); but fully-featured macOS apps can't just be thrown
             | onto a keyboardless touchscreen. (And you can't say "well,
             | you can't install 'keyboard required' apps if you don't
             | have the keyboard", either; the OS has no idea if the user
             | owns a keyboard but just hasn't bothered docking it.)
             | 
             | You _are_ accidentally correct in the other direction,
             | though -- that there 's no reason you couldn't run iPadOS
             | as well as macOS on a theoretical "touchscreen Mac" (which
             | would be a different thing than an iPad, precisely
             | _because_ the keyboard would be welded onto it, and so apps
             | could guarantee its presence /require you to use it.) The
             | reason that Macs don't have touchscreens, AFAICT, is
             | because Apple wants to use the iPad -- along with everyone
             | who buys one, and every developer who signs on to develop
             | apps for one -- as an isolated laboratory to run this
             | "successor to WIMP UI paradigm" experiment. They don't want
             | to "dilute" that experiment by allowing those users and
             | developers to get the _advantages_ of the iPad from any of
             | their other products -- because then those users and
             | developers wouldn 't be incentivized to use the iPad, and
             | thereby to give them the experimental data they need.
             | 
             | Consider: why didn't Facebook just merge Instagram and
             | WhatsApp into features of Facebook Messenger? And why is it
             | still considered a huge mistake that Twitter killed Vine
             | after acquiring it? Because, like the iPad, these alternate
             | experiences -- despite being owned by the same old bigcorp
             | that serves you the traditional experience -- are both
             | _innovation laboratories_ , the learnings of which can be
             | folded back into the regular app; and also _hedged bets_
             | against the market failure of the old-school experience.
             | Vine could have been TikTok if it had been allowed to grow
             | for a few more years. What could the iPad 's UI paradigm be
             | if allowed to grow for a few more years?
        
               | faeriechangling wrote:
               | We're not moving to the web totally unless the web
               | recreates there UI features we already get on desktop. I
               | have to juggle a half dozen apps at a time no matter how
               | much I automate.
               | 
               | VR/AR makes people feel sick and are fundamentally
               | uncomfortable in a way a screen not strapped to your face
               | isn't.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | > What could the iPad's UI paradigm be if allowed to grow
               | for a few more years?
               | 
               | Well, we asked ourselves that at the launch of the iPad.
               | At the time it was basically a reading/web browsing
               | tablet (in other words, revolutionary). But people had
               | grander visions, like running DAWs on it and porting
               | Photoshop and developing software. All of these things
               | are not hardware-limited; their exclusion _entirely_
               | boils down to arbitrary software decisions made by Apple.
               | 
               | So, we waited. We let it grow for more than a decade.
               | What we have today is just a bigger version of iOS, which
               | is a reflection of Apple's refusal to upset a paradigm
               | they directly profit off of. They're genuinely incapable
               | of disrupting the computing market, because _they 're_
               | the ones abusing the market the hardest.
               | 
               | My only hope is that legislation steps in to stop all
               | this bullshit. Your customers shouldn't be treated like
               | guinea pigs, and they should have the authority to
               | install whatever they want on the hardware they own. If
               | Apple can't design a product that respects those two
               | simple principles, then they're going to have a hard time
               | courting modern-day pros that use Macbooks and Wintel
               | machines.
        
         | squeaky-clean wrote:
         | Is everything they do web-based? Or did they just not know that
         | it won't run any desktop software and that even if there is an
         | app-store version it's usually cut down to half the features of
         | the desktop version?
        
         | bradgessler wrote:
         | I used the iPad Pro for about 2 years for nothing but
         | productivity apps and it was overall pretty great.
         | 
         | It wasn't without issue though, here's what I ran into:
         | 
         | 1. I didn't run any dev tools on the iPad. That's insane. I
         | used a laptop running macOS for that.
         | 
         | 2. Google Docs updates would always ship with weird bugs, like
         | if I'm editing a cell in a Google Sheet and hit space, the
         | space wouldn't insert.
         | 
         | 3. There's loads of issues with drag and drop in most apps.
         | Dragging and dropping a picture from Photos into a document is
         | the most common flow which works in some apps, but not in
         | others.
         | 
         | The plus sides:
         | 
         | 1. The built-in cellular connection is amazing. I wish MacBook
         | Airs would ship with built-in cellular.
         | 
         | 2. The Apple Pencil (2nd gen) is great if you design software
         | or UX.
        
           | jiveturkey wrote:
           | > 1. The built-in cellular connection is amazing. I wish
           | MacBook Airs would ship with built-in cellular.
           | 
           | don't you always have your phone on you? i don't have any
           | issue at all tethering.
        
           | alistairSH wrote:
           | _Google Docs updates would always ship with weird bugs_
           | 
           | Is that really an Apple problem? Sounds like Google is just
           | lazy with QA on Apple devices.
           | 
           | Did you try Numbers or Excel and have similar problems?
        
             | cute_boi wrote:
             | Or Safari is not a good browser.
        
               | alistairSH wrote:
               | I've been using Safari almost exclusively for 2 years
               | with no problems. I did prefer Chrome for web page
               | development, but I'm not doing that right now.
        
               | yreg wrote:
               | These are native apps.
        
         | jbellis wrote:
         | If they would just allow UTM to run, that would be good enough
         | for me.
         | 
         | https://getutm.app/
        
           | selimnairb wrote:
           | This! They even enabled swap on iPadOS 16. Why oh why can't I
           | run a VM?
        
             | [deleted]
        
       | chernofool wrote:
       | Too bad that Apple works so hard to strangle 3rd-party software
       | in the cradle.
       | 
       | A device like this would be fantastic with a full desktop
       | environment. Many desktop apps have solid touchscreen support
       | now, ChromeOS has demonstrated that mobile apps can be run
       | seamlessly in a desktop window manager, and you could easily dock
       | it to use with bluetooth mouse/keyboard.
       | 
       | Alas, we've got to put up with a hi-res smartphone OS because
       | that is Apple's vision for this product line.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | adrusi wrote:
       | With iPhone video hardware, ProRes support, and a thunderbolt
       | interface that makes 4k ProRes actually practical to get off the
       | device, the iPad Pro is now likely to be the best video recording
       | device for certain creative niches. You can even edit the video
       | on the same device that captured it in a pinch.
        
       | reustle wrote:
       | Has there been any recent discussions as to why Apple still
       | hasn't introduced cellular connectivity on their laptops? Is it
       | yet another attempt to get people to convert over to the walled
       | garden of iOS? With every ipadOS iteration, they push it to be
       | closer and closer to a desktop experience (windows, monitor
       | support, keyboard trackpad cover, etc).
        
         | jshier wrote:
         | As sibling alluded to, they don't want to pay the per device
         | royalty percentage, especially on high price devices like a
         | MacBook Pro.
        
         | etchalon wrote:
         | I'd wager it's a Qualcomm negotiation thing.
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | Modern WWAN might be a bit of a nightmare. I'm not super
         | familiar with recent efforts in the space, but if Apple wanted
         | to knock this out of the park, they'd need two things:
         | 
         | - Unlimited data plans, preferably at a non-insane price (sub
         | $50-month would be nice)
         | 
         | - _Both_ 4G LTE and 5G connectivity. Not just one or the other.
         | 
         | Both of these seem technically possible, but I'd assume they'd
         | be incredibly difficult to pull-off from a business negotiation
         | perspective.
        
           | ripdog wrote:
           | Why does Apple need to provide the plan as well? I mean,
           | given Apple's controlling nature, they may well wish to - but
           | most laptops with mobile internet simply provide a SIM slot
           | hooked up to a standard mobile baseband. Customers find their
           | own plan, and many carriers offer plans which are tablet-
           | oriented, with no calls/texts and sharing the data from a
           | 'master' mobile plan.
        
             | reustle wrote:
             | Not sure how this is much different from an iPad Pro,
             | either.
        
       | fmajid wrote:
       | It has IEEE 802.11ax WiFi6E, first Apple device with it,
       | apparently. Even the M2 MacBook Air and the Mac Studio don't have
       | it.
       | 
       | Edit: only dual-band. no 6GHz? WTF, Apple? Definitely skipping
       | this generation, then.
        
       | intrasight wrote:
       | Imaging what a great product we would have if Apple ditched the
       | Mac and put all that hardware and software effort towards a
       | unified touchscreen convertible tablet.
        
       | foxandmouse wrote:
       | The high refresh rate being limited to pro models seems like
       | apple deliberately holding back a feature from it's lesser
       | expensive models to avoid it competing with its more expensive
       | models.
        
         | etchalon wrote:
         | Or it could be about profit margins.
        
       | atty wrote:
       | They keep on pushing on the power of the iPads. Out of curiosity,
       | does anyone really use their iPads for something they'd consider
       | really compute intensive? I find that the best use of a tablet is
       | reading and watching videos. Any time I want to do anything
       | complex or computationally intensive I find a laptop to be much
       | more efficient, both in terms of the OS flexibility and better
       | input devices.
        
         | lbotos wrote:
         | I don't particularly, but I like to watch videos at 3 and 4x
         | and bigger procs have helped. Older iPads stumbled past 2x.
         | 
         | But, It does make me salty that an M2 iPad can't run Xcode. I
         | wish they would figure that out as it would greatly streamline
         | my setup.
        
           | yamtaddle wrote:
           | Give me XCode and Preview (I use the pdf page-re-
           | arranging/deleting/etc a lot) and finally put a fucking
           | calculator on iPad OS and I can stop using macbooks at all. I
           | mean for personal devices, at least, I'd still use one for
           | work since they give me one anyway.
        
         | blorgensnarf wrote:
         | Civ VI is pretty CPU intensive.
        
         | rodgerd wrote:
         | > Out of curiosity, does anyone really use their iPads for
         | something they'd consider really compute intensive?
         | 
         | Divinity: Original Sin 2 8)
        
         | null_object wrote:
         | > I find that the best use of a tablet is reading and watching
         | videos.
         | 
         | I think HN forgets the 'pros' using the iPad Pros are video,
         | photography, visual-arts and music professionals.
         | 
         | I'm as disappointed as the next dev on HN that iPadOS still
         | doesn't allow me to run a full version of Xcode. But then I
         | remember there are perfectly good laptops for that, and I'm not
         | the target audience for these devices
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | AuryGlenz wrote:
           | I mean, I don't understand how I could really use an iPad in
           | my workflow as a photographer. Everything is slower without a
           | keyboard, and for raw editing I use a whole bunch of knobs.
           | 
           | I could see maybe using it at the right type of session to
           | quickly review images on a larger screen, but the last time I
           | looked into it there wasn't a super great way of doing that.
           | Maybe I could cull photos on my iPad but unless I transfer
           | for the photos to it and then back off I'd need to work over
           | my network and that'd probably be slow...
           | 
           | Everything relating to moving files, SD cards, etc. is just a
           | hassle in Apple tablet/phone world. Ironically, a PC just
           | works.
        
             | smoldesu wrote:
             | Same goes for music production. I've tried using a few iPad
             | DAWs over the years, but it's _so much slower_ than using a
             | keyboard and mouse, or just popping open your Macbook with
             | Live. Apple already has a product segment that does fairly
             | well with this market, trying to force the iPad into being
             | something it 's not just looks silly.
        
               | KuiN wrote:
               | I see a lot of people using an iPad for music alongside a
               | proper computer with a full featured DAW. You don't need
               | a mouse or keyboard shortcuts for idea generation,
               | sketching out rough concepts from inspiration on the go
               | or playing with some of the pretty unique synths & other
               | tools available on iPad. For modular synth simulation
               | I've found iPad with Pencil to be a much much better UI
               | for me than using a mouse.
        
               | psychomugs wrote:
               | Producing may be faster on desktop for now because
               | they've had a large head start on optimizing the
               | interfaces for mouse and keyboard, but those affordances
               | are still a subset of what you can do with a touch
               | screen. Touch screens won't replace dedicated controllers
               | with physical knobs, but digital knobs are surprisingly
               | usable.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | > but those affordances are still a subset of what you
               | can do with a touch screen.
               | 
               | I disagree. A gesture-based workflow won't replace Pro
               | Tools' keyboard shortcuts, unfortunately.
        
               | psychomugs wrote:
               | Similar things were probably said about smartphones with
               | touch screens being inferior to physical buttons.
               | 
               | After using my tablet as a second screen for production,
               | photo editing, CADing, and coding, it's become woefully
               | apparent that the mouse - a tiny singular cursor - is an
               | inferior grandfather to an interface that _also_ supports
               | multitouch, and the only thing holding tablets back is
               | software. Obsidian is a good example of a mobile app that
               | has parity with its desktop version in both maintaining
               | its keyboard shortcuts but also enabling touch
               | interactions closer to the affordances of physical notes.
               | 
               | Let's check in again in a few device generations.
        
               | musictubes wrote:
               | Touch is far better for performance though. Watching
               | Suzanne Ciani seamlessly integrate her Buchla modular rig
               | with the ipad makes me appreciate just how good the ipad
               | is. A regular computer would be far more cumbersome to
               | use with hardware synths in the moment.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | Not really? The iPad isn't velocity-sensitive, and it
               | doesn't have aftertouch or any tactile feedback. A
               | "regular computer" at least has straightforward MIDI
               | routing that you can perform with - the iPad gets
               | outclassed by decade-old Octatracks in terms of
               | performance flexibility.
        
               | psychomugs wrote:
               | Ciani is the perfect example that I was about to bring up
               | myself. I got to see her perform live at a conference,
               | and out of her whole setup, she waxed poetic most about
               | her iPad.
        
               | musictubes wrote:
               | Think live performance instead of DAW work. Using a
               | sequencer, effects, or additional soft synths on the ipad
               | along with hardware synths is much nicer than fiddling
               | with a mouse or trackpad.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | "Much nicer" is a bit of a stretch (I use a touchscreen
               | laptop with my DAW). The difference between clicking-and-
               | dragging a knob is not that different from tapping-and-
               | dragging one. Same goes for performance; the iPad is not
               | velocity sensitive, and it does not have aftertouch. At
               | that point, you're probably adding in a MIDI keyboard or
               | other hardware, at which point you may as well just
               | perform with a real DAW and leave the iPad at home.
        
             | psychomugs wrote:
             | Dodging and burning and masking and using other photo-
             | related tools with a mouse and keyboard feels like I'm
             | producing a very calculated photograph. Using a stylus and
             | multi-touch screen feels closer to the original affordances
             | of crafting and manipulating a physical photograph. For the
             | best of both worlds, I use the iPad in Sidecar / second-
             | screen mode so I can use keyboard shortcuts with 1:1 stylus
             | input.
        
         | singhrac wrote:
         | I would play games on my iPad... but there aren't very many
         | that work, because Apple hasn't spent the time (or money)
         | making Metal support widespread. Really, they should just fund
         | / build their own MoltenVK implementation, but I would guess
         | that they don't want to support two paths. It's surprising how
         | MoltenVK only has one full time dev, I could easily see Apple
         | throwing some money at that with huge returns.
        
         | boppo1 wrote:
         | Digital sculpting.
        
         | monitron wrote:
         | Right now I'm drawing comics using CLIP Studio Paint, which
         | really is a desktop app that runs seamlessly on the iPad
         | (literally it appears to be the same code as what I have on my
         | Mac!)
         | 
         | Each page is ~5000x7000px with dozens of layers including many
         | effects and even 3D models. Even my 2018 iPad Pro breezes
         | through this workflow. With the pencil, it feels like exactly
         | the right device for what I'm doing.
        
         | pradn wrote:
         | Web browsing is a task you can throw great single-core
         | performance at.
        
         | jwr wrote:
         | Heck yeah. "Reading" sounds boring and easy, except when you
         | have to quickly skim through 600-page PDFs with illustrations,
         | and switch between those. This is a common use case for anybody
         | designing electronics. I will take every CPU cycle I can get.
         | 
         | The existing iPads were already the best devices for this kind
         | of thing, but faster is always better.
         | 
         | I still find it sad that:
         | 
         | a) Apple restricts iPad OS so much, that it's difficult to make
         | good use of that fantastic hardware. It feels weird that people
         | ask questions like "what can I actually use that power for?"
         | 
         | b) Companies do not ship better iPad apps. At this point,
         | Fusion 360 would work better on this M2 iPad than on most PC
         | machines, but we only get a half-baked "viewer" thing which
         | doesn't really do anything useful.
        
           | educaysean wrote:
           | This made me wonder: Why do PDFs feel so much slower and
           | bulkier compared to something like viewing HTML over a
           | browser? When it comes to displaying static images and text,
           | shouldn't PDFs outperform HTML pages by miles?
        
             | kaba0 wrote:
             | I don't think it's true in general, you may just used bad
             | PDF viewers. I can scroll through a content-rich PDF much
             | faster and smoother, than a similarly resource-packed
             | website.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | Yep. You can actually use WebKit to render PDFs in Linux
               | and it works perfectly fine as well. Performance problems
               | seem to be most prevalent when you browse them in a web
               | browser.
        
           | yamtaddle wrote:
           | > a) Apple restricts iPad OS so much, that it's difficult to
           | make good use of that fantastic hardware. It feels weird that
           | people ask questions like "what can I actually use that power
           | for?"
           | 
           | Really, I can't think of a _ton_ of uses for desktop /laptop
           | hardware this powerful. And I don't do any of them, gaming
           | aside (I have a mediocre Windows PC for that, and even _that_
           | is often using only a fraction of its power for gaming).
           | 
           | The one and only time I've given my m1 Air a real workout is
           | playing with one of those AI art generators, but it's not
           | like that was something I needed to do, or I'd have felt like
           | I was really missing out if I hadn't done it. I did it
           | because I could and it was low-effort.
           | 
           | Faster compiling is nice I guess. That's... it.
        
             | jwr wrote:
             | > Really, I can't think of a ton of uses for desktop/laptop
             | hardware this powerful.
             | 
             | Oh, there are plenty -- for one, I would _really_ like to
             | have a good CAD /CAM application. Parametric, history-
             | based, like Fusion 360 or SolidWorks. There is Shapr3D
             | which is absolutely amazing and shows what the hardware is
             | capable of (take a look at the demo videos), but nothing I
             | can use for actual work.
             | 
             | These kinds of apps need both a reasonable GPU for
             | rendering and a _really_ good CPU for computing constraints
             | in sketches, and then for recomputing solids.
             | 
             | Unfortunately, Fusion 360 being an Autodesk product, we
             | aren't even graced with an Apple Silicon version on the Mac
             | yet, even though it's been what, two years since Apple
             | Silicon is out? The application is a slow pig, where
             | usability comes last. So I guess I can keep on dreaming.
             | 
             | Or take electronics CAD -- having KiCAD on an iPad would be
             | amazing.
        
               | yamtaddle wrote:
               | Yeah, not a ton, I didn't write _none_. 3D modeling, cad,
               | running scientific models. Gaming. Hi-res video editing
               | workflows. Machine learning. I guess  "crypto" junk. And
               | some of that (machine learning, crypto, probably most
               | compute-intensive scientific models) aren't something you
               | probably want to do on a tablet or laptop except in a
               | pinch, anyway, because a purpose-built server's much
               | better-suited to it and you probably don't need
               | continuous and detailed visual feedback.
               | 
               | But I don't think it's weird that people struggle to come
               | up with ways to really use super-powerful hardware,
               | because most folks don't do (and don't _want to do_ )
               | much of the above except _maybe_ gaming, and most people
               | who do game don 't do it--or at least not in a way that's
               | taxing on the hardware--on _all_ the kinds of devices
               | they own.
               | 
               | The cool stuff lots and lots of people actually use tends
               | to end up in dedicated hardware or paths, like video
               | codecs and image processing and face recognition and all
               | that, not mainly processed by the general CPU or graphics
               | power of their platforms.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | Most folks don't do complicated video editing or music
               | production, that doesn't stop Apple from optimizing their
               | hardware around that, too. The problem isn't a lack of
               | demand, but rather the _inverse_ - there 's so much
               | demand for new software, that Apple can make tens-of-
               | billions of dollars just off the app distribution
               | platform alone.
               | 
               | The crux of all this is having the _option_ to run the
               | software you want on the _hardware you own_. No, I don 't
               | do 3D modelling, CAD, scientific simulation or gaming on
               | a daily basis. But I do use that software _sometimes_ ,
               | and a device that excludes the possibility of running any
               | of them doesn't sound fun or "limitless" to me. It all
               | leads to the feeling that the iPad is a Disney-fied
               | version of a professional workflow.
        
               | cassianoleal wrote:
               | There is Onshape for parametric mechanical CAD.
        
           | darthrupert wrote:
           | >Apple restricts iPad OS so much, that it's difficult to make
           | good use of that fantastic hardware. It feels weird that
           | people ask questions like "what can I actually use that power
           | for?"
           | 
           | Doesn't faster CPU tend to imply potentially better battery
           | life?
        
             | diebeforei485 wrote:
             | In general, not necessarily.
             | 
             | But in this case the M2 has efficiency improvements, so
             | yes.
        
         | bparsons wrote:
         | For 99.99% of users, they are 1500 dollar Facebook machines.
        
           | m3kw9 wrote:
           | You are projecting a bit there
        
           | NoraCodes wrote:
           | I doubt that. Many very serious artists use Procreate on an
           | iPad as their primary medium, and I honestly can't think of a
           | better tool without jumping about a thousand dollars in
           | price, loath as I am to say it.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | nickthegreek wrote:
             | agreed. I dont know any tattoo artist without one.
        
         | davidgay wrote:
         | Adobe Lightroom works quite nicely, I use it to edit photos I
         | take on vacation while on vacation.
        
       | gnicholas wrote:
       | Interestingly the Apple Pencil "hover" feature doesn't require a
       | new generation of Pencil -- this works on the 2nd Gen.
       | 
       | Overall, this looks like it is clearly aimed at creators. I have
       | the 2018 Pro with Magic Keyboard and have zero interest in
       | upgrading to this model. Honestly I almost wish I could trade my
       | Pro for a Mini, since it's more pocket-able, and I mainly use my
       | Pro for demoing my startup's technology.
        
         | boppo1 wrote:
         | > Interestingly the Apple Pencil "hover" feature doesn't
         | require a new generation of Pencil
         | 
         | Yeah, it requires a new ipad.
         | 
         | I'm a bit salty, not gonna lie. This has been basic on wacoms
         | forever.
        
         | duxup wrote:
         | It seems like Apple has been embracing the folks who live and
         | die on their iPad full time or mostly full time.
         | 
         | I don't think I could do that now but there seems to be a
         | sizable crowd who works that way and maybe is the future.
        
       | awelkie wrote:
       | I live pretty far from my parents, and I really want to set them
       | up with a nice video conferencing setup so we can chat as well as
       | in person. I started to spec out a nice setup with open-back
       | headphones, 60 Hz 1080p camera, nice microphone, low latency
       | screen, the works. But this would cost at least $1k, and I'm sure
       | it would be difficult for them to operate. Plus it would be hard
       | to use in certain situations like with children or while eating.
       | 
       | So I've decided to get them the iPad Pro. I'm trusting Apple to
       | focus on things like screen latency and microphone/speaker
       | quality in their products. Plus it should be quite easy for my
       | parents to use. It just seems to me like the iPad Pro is the best
       | product for setting up non-tech people with a decent
       | videoconferencing setup.
       | 
       | Has anyone else solved this problem, or have thoughts on using an
       | iPad for video chatting?
        
         | zalthor wrote:
         | I felt like the system that's in the portal from Facebook would
         | be the ideal vc setup for my parents (i.e. video calling on a
         | tv). Though, there's no way I'd want to put a camera from
         | Facebook in my parents house. I did try Google duo (I guess
         | it's call meet now?) with a Google tv, but since it was with a
         | 3rd party web cam, things like autofocus didn't work as well as
         | I'd like.
        
         | syntaxing wrote:
         | Second with what others said, the new standard iPad should fit
         | your bill. It has the ultrawide camera too with people tracking
         | which makes it even better.
        
         | llampx wrote:
         | > nice setup with open-back headphones, 60 Hz 1080p camera,
         | nice microphone, low latency screen, the works.
         | 
         | Why do all these niceties go out the window when the
         | alternative is an iPad?
         | 
         | Based on the use case, a simple last-gen iPad should do the job
         | just as well.
        
         | skybrian wrote:
         | For video chat, you don't need the latest. After the camera on
         | my MacBook stopped working, I started using a 5th gen iPad
         | mini. I use it with a stand on the kitchen table, in landscape
         | mode, and it's fine.
         | 
         | Bigger isn't necessarily better. My wife has a full-size iPad
         | and I find it awkwardly big for most purposes.
         | 
         | But for ease of use for the technically challenged, I think
         | something like a Nest Hub Max might be better, since it will
         | automatically point the camera. Caveats: it's not easy to set
         | up for someone without a cell phone (it's technically
         | unsupported), but once you do it for them, it's easy to make a
         | call. Also, weirdly, the video only works when they call me; if
         | I call them it's audio only. (I ask them to call me back.)
        
       | boppo1 wrote:
       | Illustrator here. Very frustrating that hover cursor is new-
       | device only. Here I was hoping for an apple pencil V3. I figured
       | it would be a $200 upgrade, not sell-current-device + $1200. I've
       | got a top of the line 2020 (all specs max) and it seems to have
       | lost about half of its value going by ebay prices.
        
       | can16358p wrote:
       | Seriously, they should bring smart folio back. The one that
       | doesn't have the unnecessary backside but only the side and the
       | front cover.
        
         | gumby wrote:
         | I really miss that too! Unfortunately iPads now stupidly have a
         | camera bump
        
         | jbellis wrote:
         | Did they discontinue smart folio keyboard? Magic Keyboard is
         | almost 2x as heavy.
        
           | kstrauser wrote:
           | No, they fortunately still sell it:
           | https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MXNL2LL/A/smart-
           | keyboard-...
           | 
           | It's my favorite case.
        
         | user_7832 wrote:
         | Do you have an image or link of which one this is?
         | 
         | > Seriously, they should bring smart folio back. The one that
         | doesn't have the unnecessary backside but only the side and the
         | front cover.
        
           | Jtsummers wrote:
           | I think they mean the Smart Cover option.
           | 
           | https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MQ4L2ZM/A/ipad-smart-
           | cove...
           | 
           | Magnetically attached to an edge, only covers the front when
           | "closed", the back when open, or can be folded up to provide
           | a stand.
        
             | user_7832 wrote:
             | Thanks! It looks like it can't cover the back fully the way
             | it covers the front, right? IE the back part is only as a
             | stand and not for protection.
        
               | Jtsummers wrote:
               | Sort of correct, it only covers the front _or_ the back
               | (exclusive or), not both simultaneously. So when it 's
               | being used as a hand-held tablet the back will be
               | covered, but when it's used as a stand the back is mostly
               | uncovered, and when the front is covered the back is
               | uncovered.
        
       | galoisscobi wrote:
       | I wonder why developer tools are not a priority for Apple for
       | "pro" iPads. At this point, it uses the M2 chip so the
       | limitations on running IDEs, compilers and other tools just seem
       | arbitrarily imposed.
        
         | musictubes wrote:
         | I keep hearing about the desire for developer tools on an ipad
         | and I just don't get it. The entirety of iPadOS would need to
         | be overhauled in order for it to be conducive for developer
         | work. What is the appeal of doing dev work on a touch based UI
         | with limited access to the file system on a cramped screen? The
         | Mac is perfectly set up for that work.
        
           | philliphaydon wrote:
           | What about something like Jetbrains Fleet where its all done
           | on a remote computer but the IDE is local?
        
           | kstrauser wrote:
           | I have a Smart Keyboard Folio case, which is super slim and
           | light. My 12.9" 2018 iPad Pro is smaller and light but still
           | has a good keyboard feel. (Note: I have a mechanical keyboard
           | on my home Mac, but can still type like a demon on the thin
           | iPad keyboard. It's surprisingly ergonomic.)
           | 
           | I know there's basically no chance I'll be able to run Emacs
           | or VS Code on this portable little device any time soon, but
           | if I could, it'd be my main device by a long way. There's no
           | hardware limitation preventing it, just artificial
           | restrictions on a "pro" device.
        
             | dijit wrote:
             | > VS Code
             | 
             | I have had the FOSS version of Gitpods working well on my
             | iPad mini.. if that helps.
             | 
             | I know it's not local, and we're mainly talking about using
             | the local power at our finger-tips.. but, it's an option.
        
           | sixstringtheory wrote:
           | I don't want to use the touch interface while developing. I
           | want to be able to do development on the same device that I
           | can use the touch interface for other things as well, like
           | using the Pencil to markup screenshots or design docs. It
           | seems ridiculous that I still have to carry around a bigger,
           | heavier laptop just for that one final use case.
           | 
           | I also have been using a 13" mac for years, so "cramped
           | screen" doesn't really apply to me on a 12.9" iPad pro's XDR.
           | It is more than capable, and I would hopefully be able to
           | plug it into my external monitor at home.
        
           | lynndotpy wrote:
           | I've done a significant amount of coding on a terminal on an
           | Android phone.
           | 
           | > The entirety of iPadOS would need to be overhauled in order
           | for it to be conducive for developer work
           | 
           | I disagree. I used an iPad for sysadmin, datascience, some
           | math, and some web dev. Most of the pain comes from arbitrary
           | restrictions Apple places on iPads. (I'd imagine it'll get
           | more painful as my eyes worsen.)
           | 
           | The appeal is simple: Being able to develop with whatever
           | device you have on you. A laptop beats a tablet, a tablet
           | beats a phone, and a phone beats pencil and paper.
        
           | boppo1 wrote:
           | I can afford an ipad pro or a macbook pro, not both. I
           | primarily illustrate, but it would be damn nice to be able to
           | compile apps for my ipad.
        
           | DCKing wrote:
           | They wouldn't even need to overhaul iPadOS! All they'd need
           | to do is allow Parallels, VMWare or other folks to make
           | virtualization software for the iPad, and people could just
           | run Linux on it (or - gasp! - macOS). The M1 and M2 Macbooks
           | can run virtual machines without a problem, but iPads are not
           | (sigh) _allowed to_. Despite Apple explicitly and
           | inexplicably selling 16GB models of the iPad Pro.
        
           | parkingrift wrote:
           | I want it to just run macOS. The 12.9" M2 iPad Pro is
           | absolutely perfect for me in every way except the gimped OS.
           | The screen is great, plenty of storage, amazing battery life,
           | it's light and portable, WiFi 6E, and a cellular modem.
           | Everyone has their own unique needs but for me this would be
           | the absolute ultimate work device... if it ran macOS.
           | 
           | As it stands I have absolutely no interest. It's generous to
           | describe "Stage Manager" as a gimmick.
        
           | Siira wrote:
           | An iPad is more portable than a Mac.
        
             | asdff wrote:
             | You are saving like a pound and a half
        
         | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
         | What developer tools? The ability to create and install your
         | own applications like an actual computer? That would circumvent
         | their walled garden.
         | 
         | I wish they'd just ship macOS as an "app" on their iPads
        
           | bwilliams wrote:
           | I'd even be happy with a performant VM app that I could run
           | linux on at this point. It would be so nice to be able to
           | swipe up and go from linux VM -> imessage, etc.
        
         | etchalon wrote:
         | There are developers tools for iPadOS, they're just not
         | anything you can do professional work with.
         | 
         | The main problem, I think, is most development tools require a
         | relatively low-level of operating system access that Apple has
         | not figured out a way to do given what they want iOS/iPadOS to
         | "be".
         | 
         | My suspicion is they'll eventually find a way to do containers
         | in a manner that's relatively "safe", and they'll lean on
         | Cloud-based build tools that move the hard work off device.
        
         | hankchinaski wrote:
         | I would assume this would cannibalise mac sales, very doubtful
         | we will ever see compilers on ipad os
        
           | zefhous wrote:
           | Steve Jobs and Tim Cook have both stated that they don't
           | hesitate to cannibalize their own products, and Apple has
           | proved that many times over.
           | 
           | Especially at the scale in which iPad having developer tools
           | could ostensibly cannibalize Mac sales -- there's no way this
           | would be a factor in the existence of those tools.
        
           | lbotos wrote:
           | If I get a 1TB iPad Pro (16GB of ram) with pencil and
           | keyboard it's $2200.
           | 
           | Without the pencil it's $2148.
           | 
           | If I get a 1TB 13 Inch M2 Macbook (16GB ram) it's 1899.
           | 
           | I have been avoiding getting an iPad because it can't run
           | xCode, and it's _cheaper_ for me to get the laptop.
           | 
           | Sure, some people are buying both, but I'm sure there are
           | many like me that _aren 't_ because of this exact trade off.
        
       | lbotos wrote:
       | Anyone have iPad Pro screen protector recommendations? Looking to
       | get one of these and worried about screens getting "softer glass"
       | and would rather have a sacrificial layer on top.
        
         | jessriedel wrote:
         | I wanted the "paper feel", which gives the screen a bit of
         | roughness so it feels like writing on paper rather than glass.
         | I went with this brand on Amazon and have been very happy with
         | it:
         | 
         | https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07N362JCW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b...
         | 
         | I bought it 18 months ago and still haven't needed to replace
         | it. I can clean it as easily as the bare screen.
         | 
         | These types of layers add a very tiny amount of color
         | distortion, so I guess not recommended if you do professional
         | graphics work on the thing.
        
         | hayst4ck wrote:
         | I've generally been pretty happy with JETech's screen
         | protectors, not happy with where they come from, not happy they
         | appear to be a random amazon no-name brand, but I've been
         | pretty loyal to them and when I've deviated, mostly to
         | protectors bought in person, I've noticed a drop in quality.
        
       | duxup wrote:
       | For me this is one of those announcements that I'm excited to see
       | the new version, so that I can maybe buy the previous version ;)
       | 
       | That's not a knock on the new version in any way, just a
       | reflection of how much I value this particular type of device /
       | where I feel I need more power and etc.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | flumpcakes wrote:
         | I just purchased the iPad Air last week. The model I went for
         | was 720 in my local currency, and after today's shop update is
         | now 850. It looks like the Magic Keyboard also increased from
         | 270 to 330.
        
       | runjake wrote:
       | Lots of iPad hate in the comments. But remember, if nobody wanted
       | them, they wouldn't keep selling as well as they are.
       | 
       | If you have no interest in an iPad, don't buy one. For me, it's
       | not going to replace my general purpose computers any time soon,
       | but its great for reading or carrying around while on the go for
       | short bursts of work (SSH/Mosh with Blink app, RDP with Microsoft
       | Remote Desktop, VNC with Screens, etc).
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | MichaelZuo wrote:
       | Interestingly, the 11 inch iPad Pro still retains the LED display
       | of the 2018 iPad Pro, unlike the FALD display of the 12.9 inch.
       | 
       | Seems like display technology has matured and reached an
       | equilibrium pricing state if even Apple can't justify the cost of
       | investing in producing the fancier displays in a second size.
        
         | zuhsetaqi wrote:
         | Maybe it's also because of the cooling capacity of the 12.9" vs
         | the 11" iPad
        
           | MichaelZuo wrote:
           | From what I understand it's the exact same cooling design
           | except the larger surface area and thermal mass of the 12.9,
           | which is almost entirely negated by the larger display
           | generating more heat.
        
       | wslh wrote:
       | How long does the battery last? Comparing to the MacBook Air?
        
         | mnholt wrote:
         | From the tech specs: Up to 10 hours of surfing the web on Wi-Fi
         | or watching video. 9 hours if using Cellular data.
        
           | spullara wrote:
           | which in comparison is about half of an air or pro.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | balderdash wrote:
       | If you only use communication tools, web based apps, Word, and
       | only need to be able to open/tweak an excel or PowerPoint doc,
       | then yeah they're awesome, anything more and you need a laptop.
        
       | thepasswordis wrote:
       | It is hilarious to me that apple keeps adding accessories to the
       | iPad to make it look more and more like a laptop.
       | 
       | The iPad is a very bad laptop, but is a great tablet.
        
       | petarb wrote:
       | The stage mode looks like an interesting attempt for desktop like
       | productivity with an external monitor.
        
       | rowanG077 wrote:
       | Is it possible to run virtualized linux on these and have all
       | hardware stuff working?
        
         | asadlionpk wrote:
         | Not yet. best so far is UTM.
        
           | bullen wrote:
           | But does UTM support OpenGL powered by the M2 GPU?!
           | 
           | And off topic but what about connecting a mouse to this
           | thing?
           | 
           | And what about compiling apps on it!?
           | 
           | What about running OpenGL on non emulated linux on this?
           | 
           | I know the GPU is being worked on but do the old OpenGL parts
           | work allready or is that part of the reverse engineering?
           | 
           | I wish you could change batteries yourself... hopefully they
           | have moved towards that: 3/10 on the old one: https://www.ifi
           | xit.com/Teardown/iPad+Pro+11-Inch+Teardown/11...
        
             | rowanG077 wrote:
             | AFAIK there is nothing being worked on. I would be VERY
             | interested on a faint glimmer of hope of linux being
             | possible on Ipad Pros.
        
               | bullen wrote:
               | https://news.itsfoss.com/linux-gpu-driver-apple/
        
               | rowanG077 wrote:
               | That's only targeting the OSX based systems
               | unfortunately. No iPads.
        
               | bullen wrote:
               | Noooo, but wait... that doesn't matter linux doesn't
               | care... M2 GPU is all that matters...
               | 
               | I mean it will be ported to iPad Pro in a week.
               | 
               | Edit: You are right: https://www.reddit.com/r/AsahiLinux/
               | comments/rar2uh/will_it_...
               | 
               | They will crack the bootloader eventually!
        
       | uses wrote:
       | Pretty surprised they left the front camera on the side of the
       | device. I can't figure out why they would think that makes sense
       | after using it even once. It's so awkward trying to do a meeting
       | and I have this weird camera angle coming from the corner of my
       | face. The alternative is portrait orientation, which puts the
       | camera really far from the center of the screen - feels like it's
       | coming from above or below my face - and puts my video feed
       | opposite to the orientation of my audience's screens, while also
       | not being able to lean on the folded case.
        
         | dubya wrote:
         | The orientation is just a software problem. No reason Zoom et
         | al can't have an option to crop to the right aspect ratio.
        
         | theNJR wrote:
         | This was the first thing I looked for. iPad is unusable for
         | video calls.
        
           | yamtaddle wrote:
           | Everyone's creepily staring into nothing anyway. Except those
           | of us who try to look at the camera instead of the screen
           | most of the time. Which means we're not _actually_ looking at
           | anyone 's face, even though it looks like we are, which is
           | another problem.
           | 
           | Being a bit off-center is the least of the problems with
           | video calls.
        
           | jjtheblunt wrote:
           | Are you saying unusable because attachment to keyboard skews
           | image centering/symmetry?
           | 
           | I use my iPad for video calls (Zoom) all the freaking time
           | and it's fine, but perhaps that's because i have it in the
           | tall orientation so the camera aligns.
        
           | agrippanux wrote:
           | Not to mention video calls (Google Meet, Zoom, Teams) kill
           | the battery on an iPad. Google Meet in particular seems to be
           | about 1% of battery a minute.
        
             | e40 wrote:
             | On the ARM versions? My M2 air uses very little battery for
             | zoom (1+ hr about 10% or less, don't remember).
        
               | cassianoleal wrote:
               | They are all ARM.
               | 
               | I have an iPad Pro with A15, and it holds battery better
               | than my M1 MacBook Air on video calls. They are both
               | great though, much better than any x64 devices I have
               | ever had.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | To say it's "unusable" is ridiculous.
           | 
           | It works perfectly fine. Only main difference is that, in
           | landscape mode, instead of people seeing you look slightly
           | down instead of into the camera (like laptops), people see
           | you look slightly left instead of into the camera.
           | 
           | 99% of people seeing your image in the call won't notice or
           | care. Especially when things like your lighting setup make
           | most of the difference that people _do_ notice, which has
           | nothing to do with the camera you 're using.
        
         | gbil wrote:
         | I was in a meeting the other and one of the participants looked
         | off-center and he said "I joined with my tablet", ah yes was
         | the remark from others
         | 
         | Now, I had joined also from my tablet but samsung put the
         | camera in the center when in landscape mode and got no such
         | remarks and I was just smiling
        
         | mojzu wrote:
         | Yeah this would be an improvement I think, considering how
         | little I've seen iPads used in portrait mode it's a little
         | surprising they haven't done it already. I'm guessing it's to
         | support the pencil charging, since the new iPad does have
         | cameras in the expected landscape location but only supports
         | pencil 1
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | lupire wrote:
         | You are too close to the camera. (Probably because iOS doesn't
         | have good crop and zoom)
        
         | tlyleung wrote:
         | The camera on the new non-Pro iPad has moved from the side to
         | the top though. Not sure why the inconsistency between models.
        
           | npunt wrote:
           | They're reusing the old enclosure so they save on tooling &
           | parts.
        
         | lukasb wrote:
         | This would be solved if Continuity Camera let your iPad use
         | your iPhone camera. Doesn't seem like it does, though.
        
       | hartator wrote:
       | Can this actually replace a MacBook for a backend engineer
       | workflow?
        
         | crims0n wrote:
         | No - but it's closer than ever, yet still probably years away.
        
       | Gwarzo wrote:
       | I would almost want to create a new thread for this, but what is
       | the use case of a tablet? Is this for fulltime physical meeting
       | goers to stylishly take notes?
       | 
       | Is there some benefit to using this over a laptop?
        
         | nickthegreek wrote:
         | I know alot of tattoo artists, and they all use ipads for their
         | designs.
        
         | theshrike79 wrote:
         | I can whip out my iPad when I'm on the train to work and watch
         | streamed or locally downloaded stuff, a laptop is way too
         | cumbersome for that even on a semi-crowded train.
         | 
         | With a keyboard cover I can actually use it for messaging,
         | emails, IM and maybe light writing. Using a stylus, I can
         | either take freeform notes or draw stuff faster than I can with
         | a mouse or touchpad.
         | 
         | And in the pre-M1 days an iPad smoked pretty much every laptop
         | in battery performance.
        
         | randcraw wrote:
         | The iPad boots up in just 1 second. I can do 90% of what I do
         | on a computer on it, at a much more adjustable angle, and it's
         | a lot more portable.
         | 
         | A tablet is integrated into my daily routine to a degree a
         | laptop will never be.
        
         | deepspace wrote:
         | I use my tablet about as much as my desktop and laptop. My use
         | cases are:
         | 
         | (1) Personal entertainment device. When relaxing on a chair or
         | in bed, a laptop is too unwieldy. The TV gets fought over.
         | Pretty much all my movie / YouTube watching is done on the iPad
         | with headphones.
         | 
         | (2) eBook reader. Since my iPad is always withing reach, it
         | makes sense to store all my books on it.
         | 
         | (3) Stylish note-taker. Not a significant part of my use, but I
         | occasionally have stand-up meetings, and meetings in awkward
         | locations, where a tablet makes more sense than a laptop.
         | 
         | (4) Signing stuff. It is much easier to store a document to be
         | signed in OneDrive, open it on the iPad and sign it with the
         | stylus than it is to print-sign-scan.
        
         | piva00 wrote:
         | I was on the fence when the iPad Pro M1 was released, it seemed
         | to finally tick off as a laptop replacement for some of my
         | hobbies (photography and music) but unfortunately it is not a
         | desktop OS, not supporting desktop workflows and apps that I'm
         | used to.
         | 
         | If it was a screen-only version of my MBA M1 I could definitely
         | ditch the MBA and use an iPad exclusively, even if it required
         | attaching a keyboard sometimes. The lacking software still
         | makes it much more of a luxury to me than something to actually
         | replace my use cases for a portable computer... I could afford
         | one but see absolutely no usage given that my MBA is already
         | extremely portable and works like I expect.
        
         | random42_ wrote:
         | I know it's very niche and doesn't apply to everybody but I
         | know of a bunch of comic book/comic strip artists that are
         | doing more and more work on the iPad pro and less on their
         | Wacom devices.
        
         | boppo1 wrote:
         | Illustrators/sculptors. It's not as good as wacom+workstation,
         | but I like not being bound to one place.
        
         | squeaky-clean wrote:
         | I bought my iPad (non-pro) mainly to play online chess, to read
         | comic books, and for D&D pdfs at the table. It's also a nice
         | web-browsing and video watching machine. The iPad Pro's are a
         | bit excessive for that sort of "consumer" usage though.
         | 
         | The only great use-case I've seen for the pro is 2d digital
         | art. I have a few artist friends who love the pro+pencil.
         | 
         | Music production on one really interests me, but none of my
         | favorite plugins (effects and instruments) that work
         | MacOS/Windows exist for the ipad. They also don't offer enough
         | storage at the high end Komplete 14 Ultimate is 680GB. Each of
         | the Spitfire sample libraries is near 200GB
         | 
         | There are some nice sequencing apps, but again don't need the
         | pro for that, I just send the MIDI or OSC data to a "real"
         | computer running a "real" DAW.
        
         | gherkinnn wrote:
         | For me it's the form factor.
         | 
         | It's the perfect thing to take travelling. And on the work
         | side, the pen is astonishingly good as is the app ecosystem.
         | 
         | It also functions as a second screen for a macbook.
         | 
         | Is it necessary? No. Have I spent money in worse? Absolutely.
        
       | helf wrote:
       | I had an iPad for a long while way back. I bought the Retina one
       | initially.
       | 
       | It was nice for what it was.
       | 
       | I just can't get excited about anything iOS as unless you have
       | REALLY bought into the "ecosystem" it's a clusterfuck.
       | 
       | - File management is still a sick joke.
       | 
       | - unless they've really changed something that I'm unaware of
       | (which I'll admit is entirely possible) with "iPadOS" vs regular
       | iOS, multitasking is still a pathetic joke. The state saving and
       | pausing which relegates the devices to essentially fancy task
       | switching and not real preemptive multitasking (other than
       | extremely specific program scenarios and services functionality)
       | which drives me insane. Why the hell does my SSH client have to
       | constantly ping my location to get around the "you can run 13
       | seconds in the background before the OS forcefully state pauses
       | you"? Why the fuck can't apple give a nice little "this app can
       | run run run till it's little heart bursts in the background!"
       | Toggle switch you can control?
       | 
       | People go on and on about iPhone battery life and... there's a
       | reason for that.
       | 
       | - The ridiculous sandboxing between programs that's supposedly a
       | security feature but just makes for an insufferably inconsistent
       | UI and terrible management of data between programs ... I guess
       | that goes with my file management complaint.
       | 
       | I dunno. I just can't abide a complete blackbox lockdown of my
       | devices to the point of them being literal appliances. But
       | apparently I'm in the minority there.
       | 
       | Also, most people appear to just be perfectly happy rapidly task
       | switching. And having only most of their programs paused when
       | switched from works fine for them I guess.
       | 
       | I will say for /consumption/ of say documents like PDFs and
       | Comics, the iPad is fantastic. But outside of that basic usage
       | they drive me insane.
       | 
       | Sorry for the meandering rant. I'm waiting for food with my 8yo
       | and bored lol
        
         | kaba0 wrote:
         | > The ridiculous sandboxing between programs that's supposedly
         | a security feature but just makes for an insufferably
         | inconsistent UI and terrible management of data between
         | programs ... I guess that goes with my file management
         | complaint.
         | 
         | I don't know, I do think that in theory that strong of a
         | sandboxing is superior and would actually like a better
         | implementation of that on even something like linux. Most of my
         | programs absolutely have no reason to read my documents and
         | what not.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | mr_tristan wrote:
         | I had the first generation iPad Pro. And eventually I gave it
         | to my wife for a lot of the same reasons you list.
         | 
         | Ultimately, Apple will just doesn't want you to separate your
         | data from the app. It's not just that it's a walled garden,
         | it's a wall around you maintaining your data.
         | 
         | My primary tablet usage during the work day is taking notes.
         | With a pen. And I've started organizing my notes into a self-
         | indexed hierarchy of images. And for backup, those images go
         | into S3. I can then just sync any other machine and peruse the
         | images using Digikam which is kind of nice for a free open
         | source app.
         | 
         | Every solution I've found in the iPad just requires you to put
         | your data in some kind of isolated app playground, and then
         | jump hoops to try to move it into any kind of backup system you
         | can access on desktop OSes. I bought a Microsoft Surface, and
         | despite not having worked in Windows in a decade or so, I was
         | able to get my image-based note taking workflow done and set up
         | in a day.
         | 
         | So, this iPad is a beautiful device I will never own. Purely
         | because of their software policies. It's annoying.
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | > _File management is still a sick joke._
         | 
         | I don't know if it's just me, but it seems like every time I go
         | to save or open something on my iPad it defaults to iCloud. I
         | don't have a paid iCloud account and find this supremely
         | annoying, especially because the default folder names inside
         | iCloud are the same as in local folders. It's as if they're
         | trying to cause people to accidentally save stuff to iCloud, to
         | get them in the habit of using it (and then paying for it).
        
       | 0xCMP wrote:
       | I used to be a die-hard iPad-for-coding user, but with the advent
       | of the M1 MBAs I couldn't justify it anymore.
       | 
       | The thing that broke me was that if I wanted a remote development
       | env (because at the end of the day you can't do development on an
       | iPad without some remote computer running stuff for you) at the
       | time you needed to a) provision on via safari manually b) have
       | some kind of script or something on the iPad capable of doing
       | that for you c) have a cheap/low-power computer always running to
       | run the scripts. [This is assuming you don't have a remote
       | computer already you can turn on. E.g. "only iPad + on-demand
       | cloud resources"]
       | 
       | I eventually concluded the M1 MBA is a better option because of
       | how heavy an iPad Pro 12" + Magic KB Case is in comparison.
       | 
       | I still *love* my iPad Pro. The screen is almost a good enough
       | reason to use it. Also it had LTE which was very useful.
       | 
       | I still think it's possible to make the iPad do everything I
       | wanted the M1 MBA to do without significantly changing how Apps
       | are developed or restrictions on iPadOS (and apps like ShellFish,
       | WorkingCopy, and Blink Shell are really my go-to examples of how
       | that could have existed all this time), but while possible today
       | it's just much higher friction and cost to use an iPad to do the
       | same thing an entry-level M1 MBA could do.
        
         | powersurge360 wrote:
         | Is this using an iPad for coding or is this using an iPad as a
         | dumb terminal and using something else for development?
         | 
         | At the end of the day, that's what makes an iPad unappealing
         | for me as a development machine. If I am going to pay for an
         | iPad and then rent an affordable VPS just to dev on then why
         | not just buy a computer I can develop on locally right away?
         | Sure, LTE is cool but it probably is more cost effective to go
         | the other way and pay for a hotspot plan for your phone and
         | tether your computer that way.
         | 
         | That being said, I do occasionally feel cool doing dev on my
         | laptop remotely from my iPad using a combination of tailscale,
         | tethering from my phone and using iSH to ssh into an emacs
         | session.
        
       | sdze wrote:
       | Still no torrent app possible = no buy.
       | 
       | Hopefully the EU breaks Apples' App Store Monopoly.
        
       | jbverschoor wrote:
       | Still no NFC?
        
       | nkristoffersen wrote:
       | Best feature not really mentioned is Sidecar! Having a second
       | high quality screen has been a game changer. So portable and so
       | powerful. I will be upgrading my 2018 12.9 iPad Pro to the
       | latest. Mostly for the better screen to match my M1 Max.
        
       | retskrad wrote:
       | Here in Scandinavia, the base iPhone 14 Pro Max, M2 MacBook Air
       | and the new M2 iPad Pro all cost the same: $1,484. Good lord!
        
         | whalesalad wrote:
         | lol - they're all basically the exact same thing with a
         | different display
        
           | davnicwil wrote:
           | Stepping back and reflecting on the fact this is true is very
           | cool indeed.
        
           | thih9 wrote:
           | In case of the MacBook and the iPad, seems like it's more
           | about the OS. At least that's what most comments here are
           | mentioning when comparing an iPad to a MacBook.
        
             | [deleted]
        
       | faeriechangling wrote:
       | Pretty boring announcement, biggest things is that Apple finally
       | has stock of Broadcom 6E radios so you can expect those going
       | forwards, and that ad expected Apple couldn't manage to get over
       | 600nits on their small screen device.
        
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