[HN Gopher] iPad Pro M2
___________________________________________________________________
iPad Pro M2
Author : doerig
Score : 259 points
Date : 2022-10-18 14:56 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
| asimpletune wrote:
| The convergence between iPad and Mac is pretty brilliant. If you
| think about it, the iPad now has a lot of features that are much
| better than a top of the line Mac, like 5g and the display tech.
|
| It's all still too new but if you read the tea leaves we are
| heading towards a convergence. In the future there will be a
| device that behaves like an iPad on its own. With an app and
| touch oriented experience, but when connected to a keyboard and
| mouse will be like a Mac today. The universal app stuff is a
| great indicator of them moving in that direction, even if it's
| still new.
|
| One thing I don't really understand though is how a Unix
| interface will work with a device that is also iPad OS. Like, if
| you can install stuff from online, eg through home brew, will you
| be able to side load apps? If that's the case I think the app
| experience might suffer, but at the same time if the Unix
| experience has its wings clipped then what do they plan to
| replace it with?
|
| I mean that sincerely. I don't think apple is so naive as to
| think they can make macs into iPads and not provide an
| alternative. Maybe they'll offer a native package manager, one
| that's even reverse compatible with brew as a starting point, and
| then provide an integrated notary process as part of that system
| for publishing recipes.
| Veliladon wrote:
| Still can't believe the M2 chip is hobbled with Stage Manager.
|
| Dear Apple,
|
| I want my iPad to become a Finder based full-fat macOS when it's
| on the Magic Keyboard and I want it to be Springboard when I take
| it off the Magic Keyboard.
|
| Make it happen already.
| criddell wrote:
| Dear Apple,
|
| Please don't listen to Veliladon. Keep the iPad as it's own
| thing. In fact, make it more iPad-y and less Mac-y.
|
| If I want a Mac, I'll buy a Mac.
| williamcotton wrote:
| It feels so close, doesn't it? My biggest gripe is that iOS
| doesn't have proper support for external displays.
| etchalon wrote:
| iOS 16 fixes that.
| wlesieutre wrote:
| Not in the initial release. They pulled external display
| support from Stage Manager in later betas to get it working
| on older models with the A12X and A12Z instead of only the
| M1 and newer.
|
| External display support is supposed to come back in an
| update later this year. Presumably that part will still
| require an M1 or newer processor.
| twobitshifter wrote:
| as an ipad mini owner, i selfishly hope they make it work
| on the a15 as well. I don't know how unfavorably that
| chip compares to the a12z, but it seems very fast on the
| ipad mini.
| madeofpalk wrote:
| Not any more lol
| shadowfacts wrote:
| Proper external display support was pulled from the initial
| release of iPadOS 16 because it was super buggy.
|
| From the press release: > Full external display support for
| Stage Manager on M1 and M2 iPad models will be available in
| a software update later this year.
| Someone wrote:
| That could end up being a two-headed monster, with some apps
| working fine in 'iPad mode' and looking awfully out of place in
| 'Finder mode' and other ones looking good in 'Finder mode' and
| bad in 'iPad mode'.
|
| Unless (almost) all their apps (including third-party ones)
| would seamlessly switch from a mouse-driven MacOS UI to a
| pen/finger drive iPad UI, I think most users would be
| disappointed with that.
| evilduck wrote:
| Hell, just give access to the Hypervisor framework now that
| M1/M2 chips natively support virtualization. I would gladly use
| a macOS or Linux VM on an iPad if it didn't require constant
| workarounds. UTM is ready it just needs the App Store barrier
| removed.
|
| As a user experience it's no less jarring than GeForce Now,
| XBox remote play, Steam Link, Plex, VNC apps, iSH, Blink, etc.
| orangecat wrote:
| _I want my iPad to become a Finder based full-fat macOS when it
| 's on the Magic Keyboard_
|
| And Apple doesn't want you running unapproved software so
| that's never going to happen unless macOS gets a lockdown mode
| (only app store apps, no terminal or Unix access, etc).
| NegativeLatency wrote:
| Bought an iPad earlier this year hoping to take some of the
| responsibilities off of my 2015 MPB, and it's really just a
| media consumption device.
|
| Hard to admin my home server, program, etc on an iPad, even
| though it has a much faster processor and way better battery
| life.
|
| I realize this is a bit of a niche usecase but apple shipping a
| Terminal.app for iOS/iPadOS would be a game changer.
| [deleted]
| fooblaster wrote:
| I don't think apple will implement something like this if it
| cannibalizes sales of a higher end product with more profit
| margin. I wouldn't expect a feature like this until there is a
| ipad sold for the price of a MacBook pro plus an ipad(e.g ipad
| super pro for 2000$).
| lupire wrote:
| Apple doesn't want non-artists to buy iPad Pro instead of
| MacBook. They want people to buy both.
| traceroute66 wrote:
| > Apple doesn't want non-artists to buy iPad Pro instead of
| MacBook. They want people to buy both.
|
| I see the resident Apple bashers are already warming up their
| cannons firing a few rounds.
|
| But perhaps we need to take a step back here for a moment....
|
| First you need to consider the security and general platform
| profile of iOS which is fundamentally different from MacOS.
| Running MacOS would greatly weaken the iOS security profile
| of Apple mobile devices, and you have to remember that the
| devices are not just used by consumers but they are used
| widely in the corporate world too. iOS loaded with corporate
| apps is a much more attractive security footprint for
| corporate IT departments. Personally speaking, I very much
| like the tightened security footprint of iOS. I wouldn't want
| to run full-blown MacOS on my phone or tablet, even if I
| could !
|
| Second, prior to Apple silicon, non-mobile hardware ran on
| Intel. So Apple were justifiably technically constrained by
| that fact. However, if you observe Apple today though, you
| can see MacOS on Apple Silicon allows you to install
| iPhone/iPad apps simply by downloading them from the App
| store as you would on an Apple mobile device. I would argue
| therefore that with time, we may see further blurring of
| boundaries in both directions.
| animsriv wrote:
| This gives me an idea for an iPad like device with dual
| booted MacOS and iOS, and isolated storages for the
| security concerns. Best of both worlds!
| jzig wrote:
| It could even run on the same M2 and other hardware. Just
| make two partitions on the SSD.
| MuffinFlavored wrote:
| I'm trying to calculate in my head why I (a non-artist) want
| a tablet with the foldable keyboard thingie instead of a
| laptop...
| minhazm wrote:
| I (non-artist) use my iPad + magic keyboard as my primary
| non-work computer. The battery life is great, it's instant
| on, has a touch screen, you can play games on it, and it's
| more portable than a laptop being 11 inches. In general it
| makes for a great every day device. The only things I don't
| try to do on my iPad is anything programming related.
| unethical_ban wrote:
| I have a friend who bought one to replace her aging laptop
| with the iPad pro. She wanted it for the touchscreen to
| navigate and touch up photos (but not via pencil really).
| But she does also use it often for spreadsheets and email
| as well, and since you can have multiple apps side by side
| now, it works for her. She does this at her work
| environment which doesn't have space for say, dual screens
| or an office, so it makes sense for her.
| lvl102 wrote:
| I see this comment often. I just find it comical that people
| really think they know what goes on inside of Apple product
| meetings. Ipad Pro 12" is as expensive as a Macbook. Perhaps
| Apple doesn't want people to use full MacOS on an 11" screen
| because it's not as usable as you think it is...Apple is not
| out to blindly maximize its profit at all times.
| llampx wrote:
| Apple used to sell a Macbook Air 11" and a Macbook 12"
| sbuk wrote:
| " _used_ to sell " being the key phrase there.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Yeah, I don't really know who Apple is hoping to sell these to.
| My ex-boyfriend bought one of the earlier iPad Pros with some
| grand ambitions, but he mostly ended up using it for Netflix,
| Twitter and emails. I think that _totally legitimizes_ the
| existence of the smaller /cheaper models, but who is Apple
| selling these to in the long-term? Even the mediocre Surface
| Pro has a decent software experience that explains why someone
| might continue spending extra on it. But I don't know who the
| iPad Pro is for, especially these souped-up models. 120hz is
| nice, but... who the hell is going to need or even _appreciate_
| a high-refresh rate on an iPad? I reckon most "pros" would be
| happier if they sacked the high refresh and upgraded the panel
| to a 60hz OLED one.
|
| I'm just spitballing though. The iPad probably won't make sense
| for most of us until it's discontinued or they add macOS to it,
| whichever comes first.
| Spivak wrote:
| iPad Pro has a strong foothold in digital art. Not having to
| learn how to split brain with a Wacom is a game changer and
| there aren't many competitors in the space that aren't
| wayyyyy more expensive.
| vlunkr wrote:
| > but who is Apple selling these to in the long-term?
|
| I've thought this about every iPad model they've made, but
| obviously I'm wrong every time. I'm sure there are specific
| professionals who will find this useful, but in my guess is
| that most iPads are sold for casual use. As to why you would
| buy the higher-end model, because if you're in the market for
| an iPad, you probably have disposable income, you might as
| well get the shiniest one you can.
| jessriedel wrote:
| The extra 2 inches of screen can be a reason to get a Pro,
| but I agree it's unclear why they both to put in so much
| horsepower.
| selykg wrote:
| as an avid comic book reader, the 12.9" iPad Pro is
| _perfect_ for reading comics, you don't have to zoom in or
| out at all and you can simply read. The 11" model might be
| fine too but I've only ever used the 12.9" model. It's
| slightly oversized, like the treatment some of the deluxe
| hardcover graphic novels get, and it's absolutely glorious
| to be able to read without zooming in.
|
| I'd love to get a newer iPad, but the price is bananas for
| me given the use case. I bought the pre-2018 model and it's
| still holding on but I'm going to be bummed when this one
| reaches the end of it's usable life due to software updates
| and such because I can't afford (or, justify maybe) one of
| the newer models.
| taude wrote:
| I think the 11" is too small for comics. I typically have
| to zoom in, or use the mode that managaes the zooming in
| and scrolling for you.
| Larrikin wrote:
| What do you use to read comics? When I was looking into
| it some months back the best readers of the past were all
| unmaintained and didn't work properly and the newer apps
| wanted to charge me a monthly fee to read comics from
| local storage with no option to buy.
| selykg wrote:
| I use Chunky. It still works great.
|
| I've heard Panels is decent as well.
| yamtaddle wrote:
| > as an avid comic book reader, the 12.9" iPad Pro is
| _perfect_ for reading comics, you don't have to zoom in
| or out at all and you can simply read.
|
| The really cool thing about this, for those who haven't
| tried, is that in landscape mode the 12.9" is _really
| really close_ to the same size as a two-page comic
| spread, so you can read them like they were intended, not
| one page at a time. It 's a _little_ smaller, but not
| much. Makes a huge difference vs. page-at-a-time reading.
|
| (I use Chunky, which is amazing and I wish the author
| charged money for it or had more options to pay them than
| one mostly-unnecessary and really-cheap IAP, because it's
| _really_ good and I never want it to go away)
| npc54321 wrote:
| caycep wrote:
| There's a good local wedding photographer here who edits 90%
| of her commercial work on her iPad Pro now
| dirheist wrote:
| Surely the full version of Adobe Lightroom on a mac would
| offer more features than the ipad?
| imwillofficial wrote:
| Not every feature is used. Most use a tiny subset of
| available features.
|
| That makes the iPad fill many many use cases.
|
| I can do about 80% of my work on my iPad
| wil421 wrote:
| They have Photoshop on the iPad and Adobe says it's
| "built with a no compromise in quality and performance".
| Which means buggy as any Adobe product but useable. It
| really can't get worse than Lightroom on an older intel
| Mac. An iPad Pro M1 also beat a MBP 16" with an i9 in
| Geekbench for multi core.
|
| Video editing is also crazy good on an iPad Pro and
| iPhones.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Well, video editing is crazy _fast_ on iPad and iPhone,
| that doesn 't make it _good_. Apple goes above-and-beyond
| building hardware accelerators into their GPU for video
| content, but the form factor of the iPhone /iPad is
| considerably worse than editing with a Macbook. I feel
| the same way about music production on iOS - the hardware
| is willing, but the software is weak.
| musictubes wrote:
| Apparently they don't need all those extra features 90%
| of the time. The ipad in conjunction with the pencil is a
| very powerful photo editing tool.
| blairbeckwith wrote:
| Probably why she only edits 90% of her work on iPad. I
| think there's a huge percentage of non-developers who are
| exactly in this boat - can do 90% of their work on an
| iPad, and enjoy that experience, but keep a traditional
| computer around for the 10%.
| CharlesW wrote:
| > _120hz is nice, but... who the hell is going to need or
| even appreciate a high-refresh rate on an iPad?_
|
| This is a notable differentiator that's easy to see and feel
| for iPad users. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otlDSjAq2hI
|
| > _Yeah, I don 't really know who Apple is hoping to sell
| these to. [...] The iPad probably won't make sense for most
| of us until it's discontinued or they add macOS to it,
| whichever comes first._
|
| Apple knows who they're selling to. Apple's iPad dominates
| the global tablet market (along with Samsung and Amazon), so
| there's evidence that it's made sense for its target market
| for some time now.
| smoldesu wrote:
| > This is a notable differentiator that's easy to see and
| feel for iPad users.
|
| I agree. We're talking about a device that _most people_
| use to watch video though, so they 're not going to really
| be revving it beyond 24hz.
|
| 120hz screens are great, but if I didn't play first-person
| shooters with my friends then I'd have no reason to use
| mine. Like I said, an OLED panel makes _much_ more sense
| for the iPad, and _arguably_ the Macbook Pro.
| CharlesW wrote:
| > _We 're talking about a device that_ most people _use
| to watch video though, so they 're not going to really be
| revving it beyond 24hz._
|
| Interesting. I don't use my iPad for video much, but I'm
| going to assume you're right and I'm in the minority. In
| that case, a nice benefit for cinephiles is that 120 Hz
| is an integer multiple of 24 Hz, while 60 Hz is not.
| smoldesu wrote:
| 60hz is an integer multiple of 24hz when you use LTPO
| displays, like the ones offered with OLED panels.
| hoistbypetard wrote:
| I have a 2018 iPad pro with a pencil and keyboard, and I love
| it. It's good for:
|
| * Working on game assets using the Affinity tools (Designer
| and Photo)
|
| * Second monitor for my Mac when I'm not at my desk
|
| * Chat/videoconference tool, leaving me able to use my
| computer during virtual meetings
|
| * Travel machine. I can do most of my office-y stuff on it,
| and use it to ssh into production things. Gitpod lets me do
| some light coding from there in a pinch, but if I'm planning
| on a lot of that I usually just carry the Macbook. Because a
| portable rig with two monitors is damn nice for writing code.
|
| * Reading and annotating PDFs
|
| * Documentation viewing while writing code
|
| * General reading
|
| * Using a square reader to process payments
|
| I suspect that this will likely easily be replaced by a
| current Air when the time comes, but it's easily useful
| enough for me to want it. And when you consider that the ASUS
| portable monitors run in the $300-400 range, and the Wacoms
| are around $600, I don't feel like I'm severely overpaying.
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| I bought a 2G ipad pro and it was very useful as just a
| writing tablet. Unlimited paper, though I had to get a paper-
| like screen protector since otherwise their wasn't enough
| friction between the screen and the pen to make me happy.
|
| I'm disappointed there aren't more pen-based programming
| experiences out there, but I can't really think of any useful
| ones myself either.
| shagie wrote:
| For writing, have you checked out the remarkable? (
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24295443 )
|
| It's an e-ink display with paper like friction and if you
| really want to, you can shell into the linux system it runs
| on.
| schaefer wrote:
| I'm not the op, but I am a "pen based note taking
| enthusiast".
|
| I have owned both a gen 1 remarkable, and an older iPad
| Pro. In my opinion, the remarkable is garbage in
| comparison. The note taking app is just so far behind.
| And cross platform seems it's never going to happen.
|
| My note taking app of choice is always: write, by stylus
| labs. It's wonderful, and really expresses what I hoped
| pen based writing would always be. Especially the undo-
| wheel. For quickly scrolling back a whole word or
| sentence. But the real killer here is that it's cross
| platform. I can move the notes to the native Linux app or
| the native windows app.
|
| That having been said, I am forever annoyed that I can't
| run Xcode on either Linux or my $1000+ iPad. Also, on the
| iPad, there are ridiculous restrictions in how you are
| allowed to run apps side by side in split screen.
|
| /sigh
|
| So the race for the good pen note taking device is still
| on for me.
|
| I have hope that soon the Pine Note will take off and
| allow me to finally run write by stylus labs on a
| platform with development tools. In this case Linux.
|
| Again, Apple could win me back by opening access to dev
| tools. Either in the iPad itself or cross platform on
| Linux/windows--or by allowing me to install macOS on the
| iPad.
|
| Remarkable could win me back by opening the platform and
| allowing my to install write by stylus labs.
|
| Dell or Lenovo could win the race by shipping a 2-in-1
| with a current generation processor and Linux officially
| supported, and preferably pre installed.
|
| But it honestly looks like pine 64 is out in front in
| this race.
| hoistbypetard wrote:
| Have you tried the Pine Note? As someone who really likes
| Pine 64, and has a PineBook Pro along with a couple of
| Pine Time watches in my device petting zoo, it's worth
| pointing out that when they say something is only
| suitable for early adopters, they *really* mean it.
|
| Make no mistake. Their stuff is great. But I'm not buying
| something they tell me is for early adopters unless I
| want to write code for it and use JTAG to load that code,
| possibly with a handbuilt wiring harness.
| schaefer wrote:
| I haven't tried the Pine Note (yet).
|
| Like you, I'm willing to take Pine64 at their word that
| they are still "crowdsourcing system level software". I
| am eagerly awaiting their monthly blog update/podcast.
| Tragically, last month's update didn't happen. So, we've
| all been a little in the dark.
| shagie wrote:
| > Remarkable could win me back by opening the platform
| and allowing my to install write by stylus labs.
|
| It's linux under the cover that you can connect to if you
| know the password (in the settings).
|
| There's a whole bunch of apps that you can side load into
| it.
|
| https://github.com/reHackable/awesome-reMarkable
|
| I'm not sure there's anything preventing you from
| installing write by stylus labs other than that no one
| appears to have ported it to the device.
| schaefer wrote:
| There is an Arm Linux build of "Write" right here [1].
| I'm curious if it would work on the remarkable as is.
|
| I've never side loaded anything on the remarkable, but...
| I do own one.. so it's worth dusting it off and trying.
|
| Thanks again for the link to the reHackable repo. Hacker
| News threads seem to cool off quick, but if I have any
| luck, I'll report back here.
|
| [1]: http://www.styluslabs.com/faq
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| The reason the iPad Pro works so great for writing is the
| 120Hz refresh. I don't think we will see that in an e-ink
| system anytime soon, but I can always dream.
| wlesieutre wrote:
| I have a 2018 model and love the 12.9" screen size for media,
| note taking, reading, sketching, etc.
|
| That said if they made a cheaper version with a 12.9" screen
| I would have bought that instead. I don't do anything that
| needs a desktop class processor.
|
| Artists do love the performance though, people use them for
| video editing or large image editing with lots of layers.
|
| Edit to add - 12.9" is also helpful for using two apps in
| splitscreen. Might become less important with Stage Manager,
| we'll see how I like that.
| smoldesu wrote:
| That's what I don't really understand, though. Even the
| artists and video editors who use these devices aren't
| _actually_ leveraging all of the power in the machine.
| Photo editors and artists are mostly still constrained by
| single-core performance, and video editors are mostly just
| leveraging the GPU 's video accelerators. The "full power"
| of the M1 or M2 doesn't even make sense for these pro
| customers.
|
| That's why I still think an "iPad Max" makes much more
| sense. Even to professionals, the iPad is ultimately a
| content consumption device. So, Apple ought to lean into
| that. Make an iPad _you_ can love with a big screen and
| punchy OLED panel, while cutting back on the CPU cores to
| optimize for battery life and thermals. Even if they never
| put Stage Manager on it and ditched the LIDAR camera, I
| think these things would sell like hotcakes at the right
| price.
| garyfirestorm wrote:
| I think you are underestimating the power of pencil
| combined with Letter sized screen for people who read
| research papers, take notes and need entertainment when
| traveling - potentially entire higher ed students. I just
| bought an M1 iPad Pro last week and I am impressed with
| how easy it is to navigate and annotate pdf documents
| smoldesu wrote:
| I don't think I do. I used to own a Surface Pro with
| their Surface Pen, basically the same experience and I
| used it for everything from reading manuals to flipping
| comic book pages. It was great, but none of it's
| greatness was predicated by "the power" of it's chip. The
| iPad Pro would be equally as attractive if it used the
| base-model chip and ditched the LIDAR nonsense, _and_ it
| would be cheaper.
| CPLX wrote:
| This just has to be a big use case. There's a very large
| community of wealthy people who are extensive business
| travelers and their core job description is reading and
| marking up documents on the road.
|
| Think lawyers, finance, basically anyone doing "deals" is
| in this category. As someone with about 3 million
| frequent flier miles lying around I've seen a whole lot
| of them in airports.
|
| I have one too. Big screen, thin profile can be used in
| an airplane seat or wherever, has a cell connection so
| you don't need to fuss with wifi to send back comments on
| something quickly.
|
| It's really a great application for these things. Agreed
| that the processor might be overkill but also who cares,
| when you live on the road and shit depends on you, you
| just max out all the choices and press the order button.
| cj wrote:
| > Agreed that the processor might be overkill but also
| who cares
|
| Lower income consumers who would appreciate lower prices.
|
| Apple is a multi-trillion dollar company at this point.
| The only way for them to grow another 50% from where they
| are today is through mass market adoption by regular
| people.
|
| Or maybe these high end devices aren't meant to drive
| revenue as much as they are meant to keep power users
| happy while focusing on other revenue streams for
| meaningful revenue growth.
| gomox wrote:
| What app do you use for this? I'm constantly appalled at
| how hard this seemingly basic use case is.
| garyfirestorm wrote:
| Try Foxit pdf - it even lets you crop and apply it to all
| pages in a pdf.
| tshaddox wrote:
| > That said if they made a cheaper version with a 12.9"
| screen I would have bought that instead.
|
| I bet you can find used ones for much cheaper. I still love
| my aging 2nd generation 12.9" iPad Pro from 2017. Of course
| we would all love products even more if they were cheaper,
| law of demand and all that.
| yamtaddle wrote:
| > That said if they made a cheaper version with a 12.9"
| screen I would have bought that instead. I don't do
| anything that needs a desktop class processor.
|
| This right here. I literally only buy them for the screen
| size, and because Android tablets are... really bad and
| largely have much worse (for my purposes) software
| available, even if I could find one in that size.
|
| I never really push the processor or graphics capabilities.
|
| The screen size is incredible for: PDF reading, drawing and
| art generally, a little video editing maybe, sheet music
| display and other music purposes, comic book reading, as a
| portable second screen for a Macbook (it's a very similar
| size to a 13" Macbook screen), portable SSH terminal,
| remote desktop, and yeah, watching Netflix or whatever.
|
| But I could easily get by with the brains of a much lower-
| end model. _However_ , I expect the larger, higher-quality
| (for faster refresh for drawing and such) screen is a big
| chunk of their cost to manufacture it, so I'm not sure how
| much cheaper such a thing would really be.
|
| I truly don't even know what I _might_ do with one that 'd
| really _use_ all that horsepower. Gaming I guess? But I don
| 't like my games vanishing or breaking when I update an OS,
| so I don't game on iOS very much. Pinball and (now that
| it's been re-released, finally) Angry Birds. That's about
| it.
| wlesieutre wrote:
| At the most general level, it does run a
| 2732-by-2048-pixel display at perfectly smooth 120 hz,
| and that looks _great_ with the Pencil. But I 'd give
| that up to save a couple hundred bucks.
|
| The main bummer with the base iPad display is that it's
| still using sRGB, while Apple has been using P3 gamut
| pretty much everywhere else since the iPhone 7. Not sure
| if I'd downgrade to that one, but I'd be fine with a
| 12.9" iPad Air.
| musictubes wrote:
| iPad Pro is amazing for audio, photography, and of course art
| creation. I am just starting to dip my toes into the audio
| world and the number and quality of soft synths, sequencers,
| effects, mixers, etc. is actually breathtaking. The ipad is
| especially useful when used in conjunction with physical
| instruments and live performance. A regular laptop isn't
| nearly as nice to use in the moment. Suzanne Ciani uses the
| Animoog Z app on her ipad along with her $20k+ Buchla Modular
| synthesizer rig during live performances. I have also been
| enjoying live streams from Pittsburgh Modular. He uses an
| ipad for sequencing and effects along with the hardware
| synths.
|
| Having a more powerful ipad allows more and more
| sophisticated tools to be made for it. Apple brings the
| capability and developers take advantage.
| 314 wrote:
| I have the original (from 2014?) and it is still in use every
| day. I bought it for sketching but never really used it for
| that too much. For note taking (with a pen) it has been in
| use every day. I used to go through stacks of notepads and it
| was nice to replace them with a digital tool as it makes
| storage and retrieval much easier. It was an extravagant
| purchase at the time, but $1100 has started to look
| relatively after 8(?) years of use.
| diebeforei485 wrote:
| The miniLED display on the 12.9" is great.
|
| I know that iPads are used in the architecture/construction
| industry for example. AutoCAD has some products that came out
| of the PlanGrid acquisition.
| xfalcox wrote:
| I would love a way to enable Safari DevTools on this device so I
| could use it to debug iOS specific quirks instead of needing an
| Apple laptop.
| candiddevmike wrote:
| Get a Mac Mini, stick it in a closet and VNC into it, that's
| what I do.
| xfalcox wrote:
| Then you emulate iOS on it to debug iOS Safari? Is it fast
| enough?
| candiddevmike wrote:
| Yea, it works well and is plenty fast on a LAN (remote may
| be laggy). Some things you can't test using emulators,
| namely App Store stuff I believe, and you need to screw
| with the resolution/scaling so you can read the text.
|
| I threw a GitHub runner on mine so I can do iOS builds from
| it.
| [deleted]
| duxup wrote:
| Yeah I would think a Mini would be a better use case than a
| whole laptop.
| agrippanux wrote:
| If you are needing it for web dev, the Inspect browser on iOS
| works great for that purpose. It is annoying you have to pay
| $10 for something that should be built in.
| liminalsunset wrote:
| There is also one called literally "Web Inspector" from "And
| a Dinosaur" or something which I believe is free and a Safari
| extension which pops up devtools on my iPhone
| xfalcox wrote:
| Is that a paid extension?
| crims0n wrote:
| Interesting, if only incremental update. The hardware far
| outpacing the software continues.
| dekhn wrote:
| Is anybody hooking up a keyboard and mouse to their ipad pro and
| using it as an interface to a remote desktop running in the
| cloud? If so, what software stack?
| skazazes wrote:
| code-server https://github.com/coder/code-server works fairly
| well and can be saved to the home screen as a web applet to get
| rid of the browser URL bar. Their are a few UI issues related
| to touch but it has served well enough for some light work.
|
| You can also use a remote apps like Rainway/TeamViewer/RDP/VNC
| somewhat successfully to get a more full desktop experience.
| Unfortunately they all seem to have their own input caveats
| that take some getting used to.
|
| I am personally waiting for Parsec to release native iPadOS and
| tvOS clients as it provides the best experience I have found.
|
| It seems like the gaming oriented remote desktop apps (Rainway
| https://rainway.com/, Parsec https://parsec.app/) are the best
| though as the latency on the more traditional ones is somewhat
| of a hindrance.
|
| USB/Bluetooth keyboard and mouse support tends to work okay,
| but the simulated touch mouse makes getting used to things
| tough. If you have not tried using iPad OS with a mouse I
| suggest you look into before making a purchase as it is a
| fairly limiting experience.
| dekhn wrote:
| Thanks. I wodner if you could tether an ipad and raspberry pi
| running Code (which isn't really RDP, but a web app that
| includes a shell) in a fairly self-contained way.
| bwanab wrote:
| Maybe it's my bias as a musician, but as long as Apple doesn't
| put Logic on the iPad, it's just not a system that works as a
| piece of professional kit.
| elzbardico wrote:
| You need to really need to a use touchscreen and/or a pen to
| justify such an extravagance.
| tshaddox wrote:
| Or you just prefer the form factor overall to a similarly-
| priced MacBook. I much prefer my 12.9" iPad Pro (I have a 2nd
| generation one, from way back in 2017) over a comparable
| MacBook Air. This new iPad Pro is a tempting upgrade for me,
| although my 2017 device is still working fine which does make
| the expense difficult to justify.
| idontpost wrote:
| user3939382 wrote:
| I like how it says
|
| > Wi-Fi 6E and 5G
|
| So 10Gb and then as an example directly under it shows a news
| article with a couple small images in it lol. Personally what I'm
| really waiting for is 40 Gb to load my news articles.
| knolan wrote:
| I'm probably going to get the 12.9" model. I'm a lecturer and
| it'll be very useful for my teaching. Not so much for research
| where I'm working with stuff like Matlab and OpenFOAM and
| specialist Windows software for laboratory instruments.
|
| Currently I use my Mac and occasionally sidecar with an old 10.5"
| iPad Pro so I can annotate my mirrored slides while I go. It
| works but is awkward. When using a projector over HDMI it's
| energy intensive so I need to bring along my Mac's power brick.
| Often the display scaling from connecting to the room projector
| will offset my pencil position, the order you connect stuff seems
| to matter.
|
| I teach a combination of slides and Jupyter notebooks so I need
| to verify that everything works as expected.
|
| I could try to use a lightning to HDMI adapter and leave the Mac
| in my office, but I'm also interested in the LiDAR scanner for
| some research activities.
|
| I also find the iPad great for bringing along to meetings and
| labs where you want to sketch stuff out, you can email the result
| to a student after.
|
| I find it a useful tool for class prep also.
|
| So it's not a replacement for my laptop, but it'll help me with a
| significant part of my day to day activities.
| dubya wrote:
| The iPad with pencil is really useful for marking up student
| papers. I bought one during Covid when everything was being
| turned in online, but some students still prefer to turn in
| scans rather than paper.
|
| The downside is that Apple doesn't support user accounts, so I
| won't use anything that everyone in my family shouldn't have
| access to. Grading only works because it's easy to log out of
| Canvas. A lot of the nifty features require you to be logged in
| with your Apple ID, and I'm just not buying an iPad for every
| family member who might like to use it sometimes.
| doerig wrote:
| From the press release: "The 11-inch iPad Pro starts at $799 (US)
| for the Wi-Fi model and $999 (US) for the Wi-Fi + Cellular model;
| the 12.9-inch iPad Pro starts at $1,099 (US) for the Wi-Fi model,
| and $1,299 (US) for the Wi-Fi + Cellular model."
| turndown wrote:
| Have an M1 iPad Pro 12.9 inch with the Magic Keyboard and Pencil.
| Obviously won't be upgrading any time soon(like 4-5 years
| minimum) and pray Apple understands that users want significantly
| improved OS software out of the box. Everything I've seen marks
| this as a disappointing software update, especially Stage
| Manager.
| Insanity wrote:
| I have seen some discussions on this post about the use of iPad
| Pro as a device for actual work, so I will chime in with my
| experience.
|
| First of, I love the iPad Pro and have been using it for about a
| year almost daily. I use it for leisure as well as actual work. I
| am currently writing a technical book, and I decided to do it all
| on my iPad. I hook up my external keyboard and the Mx Master
| mouse is paired to both my MacBook and iPad, so I can easily
| switch.
|
| I initially thought that I would not really like it, but ended up
| using it as my preferred to device for such work. I can easily
| sketch things in GoodNotes, and writing with the pen helps me
| think. I use Termius to ssh into my development machine when I
| need to write some code, and I use Word to write the text
| content. I also use the GitHub app although that doesn't work
| perfectly so I use the web version as well.
|
| I hardly ever use split screen, so each app is essentially in
| distraction_free mode. I also notice that I get side tracked way
| less (no slack, email, or other distractions which I check often
| on my MacBook). Plus when travelling I only take my iPad now, I
| worked from airports and hotels only on this device.
|
| I was definitely sceptical about it, but ended up loving it. It
| actually made me reconsider buying a new macbook, and at this
| point I would rather upgrade my iPad than buy the new MacBook
| anyway.
|
| (It is also a great leisure device, depending on what you do. I
| have Netflix and YouTube on here, and I occasionally draw a bit).
|
| In my day job, I am an engineering manager and it take notes on
| the iPad as well. Would I switch to the iPad for full Time
| development? No, probably not. But I do use it for my side
| projects, and for something like advent of code it is good enough
| as well.
| drcongo wrote:
| Would have bought it if it had a headphone jack. As it is,
| there's nothing here to get excited about over my M1 Pro.
| hayst4ck wrote:
| I was pretty skeptical of AirPods. Now I could never go back.
| drcongo wrote:
| I use my iPad for making music, the latency on AirPods or any
| other BT headphones makes them a non-starter. It makes me
| actually angry that they removed the jack from the iPad
| "pro", killing one of the very few actual pro uses for an
| iPad.
| nomel wrote:
| For some numbers:
|
| First gen AirPods Pro have around 130ms latency. Headphone
| jack has around 50ms. [1]
|
| I can't find any measurements for second gen AirPods Pro.
|
| 1. https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/tech-news-airpods-pro-
| latenc...
| kaba0 wrote:
| I'm not knowledgeable on hardware/music, would an usb-c to
| jack converter decrease quality/increase latency? I know
| that it is still a bad option as you may want to charge it
| at the same time.. Maybe those usb-c dongles used primarily
| in macs? They often have jack as well, would that not be a
| good replacement?
| drcongo wrote:
| It's _a_ replacement, but not a _good_ one. If you want
| good sound quality and the ability to charge at the same
| time then it's quite a bulky dongle. The audio quality
| varies massively too, so if you mix / master on one and
| then it breaks, you have to replace it with the exact
| same one otherwise your next mix / master isn't going to
| match the last one. And if they've stopped making that
| one, you're screwed. All of these are problems Apple have
| created for pro users of the iPad Pro by removing the
| jack.
| kaycebasques wrote:
| One current day iPad killer app IMO is Procreate. It's basically
| a more intuitive version of Adobe Illustrator completely
| optimized for iPad + iPen. I bought my then girlfriend (now wife
| :D) an iPad for her bday in 2020 accepting the risk that we're
| spending a lot of money on an activity she might not stick with
| (digital illustration). Happy to report that I was totally wrong
| and we have def gotten our money's worth through the countless
| hours she has logged creating art. If she didn't have such a
| stellar app like Procreate she probably would have tried out
| other illustration methods. Not a guerilla marketing plug, I have
| no vested interest in Apple or Procreate. Just sharing an app
| outside my space that seems to not get much attention here on HN.
| You can check out my wife's art at https://instagram.com/gabjoart
| kylehotchkiss wrote:
| I can't believe it's just a one-time $10 fee instead of the
| ridiculous and increasing creative cloud monthly/annual fees. I
| don't know how they do it. Maybe it'll be an annual fee one day
| but at least the app is worth it.
| AIrtemis wrote:
| Came here to +1 on the likelihood of transition thoughts and
| the discovery of procreate.
|
| I also happened to gift an iPad Pro to my wife. Her daily
| workflow for work are apps like gdocs and buffer and the ipad
| handles that just fine. I think we underestimate how similar is
| the regular job workflow and overestimate the particular setup
| we need for programming / engineering.
|
| And for digital art, she started from 0 and is now a pro at
| ClipStudio art and Procreate. She is working on her webtoon and
| has created plenty of nfts and twitter profile pictures on
| fiverr. I've started bringing an ipad to engineering lectures
| since it has also helped me a great deal with note taking.
|
| I'll send her your wife's insta, here is her's:
| https://www.instagram.com/yanora_draws/
| dagmx wrote:
| ProCreate and illustrator aren't comparable. The former is
| raster while the latter is a vector app.
|
| I think you meant to or should compare it to Photoshop
| [deleted]
| carbocation wrote:
| From context "Easter" was probably autouncorrected from
| "raster".
| dagmx wrote:
| Haha yes, autocorrect on iOS 16 autocorrects backwards a
| word or two and it drives me nuts.
| grokkedit wrote:
| I read it as Easter (as in colorful) vs Victorian (as in
| austere)
| wlesieutre wrote:
| And only the digital painting parts of Photoshop, not photo
| editing. Which isn't to say that it's not a great app! It's
| just not a full on replacement for Illustrator of Photoshop.
|
| If you want an alternative to Illustrator or Photoshop,
| Affinity Designer or Affinity Photo are more in that vein.
| bpye wrote:
| How does the iPad version of Photoshop compare to the full
| desktop application?
| wlesieutre wrote:
| I've seen occasional blog posts about X feature from
| desktop being added to mobile, so definitely didn't
| launch with feature parity, though they made a big deal
| about how it was based on the real desktop Photoshop
| codebase.
|
| But personally I dropped Photoshop when it went
| subscription (last version I owned was CS5) and I've
| never tried the iPad version, so no personal experience
| to compare it.
| crazygringo wrote:
| Not even Photoshop -- Photoshop is mainly about editing,
| well, photos, while ProCreate is about natural-looking brush
| painting. Photoshop certainly has brushes, but it's not even
| attempting any kind of naturalism. People don't generally
| "paint" in Photoshop. [Edit: from comments below, I stand
| corrected. Guess it's just the people I know.]
|
| I'm not sure what you call that category of app -- painting
| apps? Natural-media painting apps? (Although you can choose
| to make them quite unnatural-looking too if you want.)
| Fractal Design Painter (later Corel Painter) invented the
| category I believe, way back in 1991.
| bovermyer wrote:
| I paint in Photoshop...
| lupire wrote:
| Procreate is an approximate subset of Photoshop.
|
| Photoshop has an old, strong brand, allthe name is a bit
| anachronistic, but it has grown to be a product for all 2D
| visual art.
| formerly_proven wrote:
| Are the 3D object layers from CS5 still around?
| dagmx wrote:
| Photoshop is one of the primary painting apps in the
| professional industry.
|
| From illustrators to matte painters, photoshop is probably
| the most common painting app you'll find.
| [deleted]
| aikinai wrote:
| Thanks for your comment. I was just about to waste time
| researching Procreate under the false impression it was
| vector.
|
| By the way, if anyone is interested in a vector drawing app,
| I highly recommend Concepts.
| dagmx wrote:
| Affinity Designer is another really good vector app and
| exists on desktop too so you can have a single app workflow
| ghostpepper wrote:
| Affinity products are like if Adobe never got huge and
| bloated and instead just kept working on keeping
| Photoshop/Illustrator/etc modern and usable
| jiveturkey wrote:
| except 1/10th of the feature set. one man's bloat is
| another man's essential feature. as a non professional I
| eventually had to give up as I couldn't keep CS5 running
| on Mac. I am still on Intel so I guess I could run an
| older macOS in a VM.
| llui85 wrote:
| Personally, I use Vectornator, although it has a history of
| being a bit buggy on lower-end devices (seems to be fixed
| now).
| doix wrote:
| Similar story here, my girlfriend uses the
| iPad/pencil/procreate to draw commissions for people. She
| absolutely loves it, went did an art degree but then went down
| a different career path and is now getting back into it.
|
| In a world filled with apps that require a subscription, a
| persistent internet connection or filled to the brim with ads,
| procreate really is a breath of fresh air. Just buy it and use
| it like in the good old days.
| mkaic wrote:
| Agreed. Procreate is a masterclass in iPad app design.
| Everything runs so smoothly, the features are deep but the
| interface is still beginner-friendly, it's a joy to draw in
| with the Apple Pencil, and it has really good options available
| for exporting your work. Plus, it automatically records a
| timelapse of every project that you can render out at the end,
| which is a small feature that I absolutely adore. All that for
| a single-time purchase? Heck yeah.
| parkersweb wrote:
| Adobe purchasing Procreate in 3...2.... ;-)
| Swizec wrote:
| I bought an iPad in 2020 fully thinking it's gonna collect dust
| like all my other tablets over the years.
|
| Nowadays I use it more than my laptop. With the magic keyboard
| and pen, it really has become the perfect portable computing
| device. Great for writing, great for sketching diagrams, even
| good for light coding (like for code samples). And it is
| _fantastic_ for creating talk slides and even presenting full
| day workshops. Love it
|
| Was waiting for today's announcement to upgrade. Running into
| memory issues lately :D
| yardie wrote:
| I bought my wife an iPad Pro and then a Macbook Air after she
| complained she couldn't do some things on the iPad. Well,
| eventually she figured out how to do it on the iPad and the
| MBA has been collecting dust. I adopted the MBA because my
| trusty old MBP is damn near geriatric (2015) and it's like a
| shot in the arm. I should have bought it sooner for myself.
| kaba0 wrote:
| What IDE do you use to code? I found nothing so far.
| superdug wrote:
| vscode in github, simply replace any github.com url with
| github.dev and you've got a full vscode environment with
| github plugins right in the browser.
| FearlessNebula wrote:
| I have to ask, why did you buy an iPad expecting it to
| collect dust?
| Swizec wrote:
| I wanted toys, could afford them, and I know myself. For
| example I have a Switch that was used _a lot_ in its first
| month that now gets picked up maybe once a quarter for a
| few minutes.
| FearlessNebula wrote:
| Fair enough :)
| dzhiurgis wrote:
| Is this 11 or 13" one? I found smaller keyboard is too
| painful to use. Maybe you can get used to as a daily, but
| will be upgrading to larger one.
| Swizec wrote:
| I have the 11". Probably couldn't use that keyboard all
| day, but for a few hours of writing at a time it's perfect.
| lukasb wrote:
| What size iPad do you have? Thinking about getting the pen
| but I have the smaller Pro, not sure how good an experience
| it will be.
| Swizec wrote:
| I have the 11" and like it specifically because it's small.
| Perfect for working on the couch
| lupire wrote:
| It seems like iPad's main feature is that Apple refuses to
| put a touchscreen or 180degree hinge on a laptop. Laptop has
| a bigger screen for drawing and coding.
| Swizec wrote:
| Dunno. For real coding I need a big monitor, a real
| keyboard, and a proper mouse. My laptop lives in its dock
| and the only time the built-in screen/keyboard get used are
| when I'm traveling and can't work from the home office.
| yamtaddle wrote:
| > It seems like iPad's main feature is that Apple refuses
| to put a touchscreen or 180degree hinge on a laptop.
|
| And extra sensors. And two good cameras, front and rear,
| with depth & all the other stuff that iPad/iPhone cameras
| have that Macbook cameras don't. And make it far thinner
| and lighter. And better speakers. And iOS so there's a
| touch-focused OS on it. And a cellular connectivity option.
| spaceman_2020 wrote:
| Bought my wife an iPad in 2020 as well with the same fear
| that it will largely go unused.
|
| She teaches at a university and would normally write copious
| notes on dozens of notebooks.
|
| She got a copy of Goodnotes for iPad and started using it for
| her notes. 2 years later, she hasn't touched any of her
| physical notes. All her study material is on iPad.
|
| Very happy with the purchase.
| [deleted]
| mnholt wrote:
| No horizontal camera is a dealbreaker for me at this point. I
| know it's minor, but that would truly let me leave the
| laptop/desktop at home.
| nomel wrote:
| With the number of cameras on an iPhone, I'm surprised they
| don't just add a second.
| xd1936 wrote:
| Still no "Liquid Retina XDR" display on the $800+ 11" iPad Pro :(
| nomel wrote:
| It, as with the last gen iPad Pro, does have Liquid Retina XDR:
|
| Last gen: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212527
|
| This gen, right on the product page:
| https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/
| faeriechangling wrote:
| The first page isn't for the 11" model, and the second page
| claims it has a "Liquid Retina" screen capped at 600nits not
| a "Liquid Retina XDR" screen.
| nomel wrote:
| My bad. I completely missed the 11" there. And, I didn't
| realize there was a difference. That is disappointing.
| focom wrote:
| Isn't stage mode the main star of the show? It looks like the
| first baby step to have an actual desktop environment on the
| ipad.
| vbezhenar wrote:
| Is it possible to use iPad with Safari and VSCode? I'm thinking
| about something like GitHub Codespaces. Like development in
| browser.
| brikwerk wrote:
| Code server might be what you're looking for:
| https://github.com/coder/code-server
|
| The caveat with the above is that you'll need something to host
| it. You could use a computer on your local network or a VPS of
| some kind (DigitalOcean, Linode, etc all have cheaper plans for
| hosting).
|
| Once you get Code Server running, you can add the URL to your
| homepage to remove the Safari URL bar.
| hatware wrote:
| I bought an iPad Pro (M1) about a month ago. I'm glad I didn't
| wait, most of these upgrades are superficial or would not be
| noticed by me.
| r2sk5t wrote:
| Dear Apple, Does the new iPad case have a place to store the
| pencil when traveling?
| CharlesW wrote:
| Apple will not make a case with Pencil storage, but Apple sells
| multiple third-party cases which do
| (https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HPKU2ZM/A/stm-dux-plus-
| fo...), and you can find hundreds of vendors which will sell
| you one.
| gumby wrote:
| What I found best is a strap with a narrow pouch sewn into it.
| otikik wrote:
| > delivering the ultimate combination of portability,
| versatility, and unbelievable performance
|
| Not with that OS
| bovermyer wrote:
| So... what's the use case for this, versus say an XP Pen or Wacom
| graphics tablet and a Macbook?
|
| The more portable nature?
| gedy wrote:
| Looks really nice, but as a developer I'm unwilling to give that
| up on my local system! Maybe one day if cloud only becomes a lot
| better, but even then feels like a downgrade.
| jmull wrote:
| It's nice they keep working on making iPadOS more useable. But it
| seems like a waste of time to me.
|
| Just let iPads run MacOS already.
|
| (or put the nice touch screen on MacBooks, same difference)
|
| If it's too awkward to use macOS without a keyboard and pointing
| device then, sure, maybe MacOS mode isn't the default.
| neilalexander wrote:
| Try using Sidecar for any substantial amount of time and you'll
| realise just how awkward macOS is without a keyboard and
| pointing device.
| jmull wrote:
| It's not like the iPad Pro doesn't have nice keyboard and
| pointing device options.
|
| I remote into MacOS and Windows machines from my iPad (12.9"
| iPad + Apple's keyboard/trackpad case + Jump) and it works
| well.
| simonebrunozzi wrote:
| I was waiting for a Macbook Pro M2 2022 announcement... :(
| smm11 wrote:
| Still digging my Galaxy S21 being a desktop experience over an
| HDMI cable.
|
| But I'm probably switching to a Samsung phone that folds.
| ChildOfChaos wrote:
| I'd love to see this explored more, it seems we have such power
| in our pockets, all we really need is devices to attach this
| too rather than more devices with the same cpu/memory and
| gpu's.
|
| Particularly when you look at Apple devices, if you own
| multiple apple devices you have several devices with A or M
| series CPU and GPU's.
| barbariangrunge wrote:
| I remember I used to read a lot on my tablet before I started
| using anki to take notes as I went. I miss it, the screens and
| then light weight are very easy on the eyes and hands. Reading on
| a laptop isn't nearly as nice, but you can't beat the keyboard
| delta_p_delta_x wrote:
| As a commment on the /r/iPad subreddit said, Apple accidentally
| made the most future-proof devices with the 2018 iPad Pros. There
| is not a _single_ app that makes full use of the increased CPU
| power of these new iPads.
|
| I own a 2018 11" iPP, and it has been a game-changer in the way I
| have studied. After buying it, I haven't printed a _single_ sheet
| of paper for note-taking. It 's also a much better Netflix device
| than my phone.
| crazygringo wrote:
| I assume multicore video encoding makes full use of the CPU?
|
| It seems kind of crazy to say there's _nothing_ that makes full
| use of the CPU.
| mort96 wrote:
| Do people ever seriously edit video on the iPad?
| crazygringo wrote:
| Oh my goodness, absolutely.
|
| You're not going to edit a feature film on it, but for
| anything that's just filming a few minutes of different
| things and editing then together and posting/sending it
| wherever, it's a godsend.
|
| Whether you're a professional actor taping a last-minute
| audition from your hotel room, a sales manager putting
| together an instructional video on site, or a high schooler
| putting together a classroom project.
| gnicholas wrote:
| Bingo. I also have a 2018 11" iPad Pro, and the only things
| that would even nudge me in the direction of upgrading is a
| landscape-friendly selfie camera (like the new iPad got),
| significantly smaller bezels, Touch ID (again, the regular iPad
| has this), and a better display (11" doesn't have mini-LED).
| musictubes wrote:
| You're right that the 2018 iPads are great. But people buying
| their first powerful ipad really don't want a 2018 machine so
| Apple keeps improving them. Software improves as time goes on.
| hartator wrote:
| What do you use for note taking on an iPad?
| drcongo wrote:
| I own a 2018 11" and an M1 12.9" and there's plenty of times
| the 11" has failed to cope with something the 12.9" barely
| breaks a sweat over. I'm not sure what you do with yours, but
| it's provably untrue that there is not a single app that makes
| full use of the increased CPU power of these new iPads.
| stinkytaco wrote:
| Serious question, would you recommend buying a refurb 2018 for
| modest usage over the new iPad 10.9"? It's about 100nits
| brighter, a bit lighter with a bit larger screen and supports
| pencil 2. Looks like they are about the same price as well.
| sonofhans wrote:
| I would, certainly. I'm also using a 2018 Pro. The additional
| screen size makes more difference to me than brightness; I
| never have the brightness all the way up anyway.
| asdff wrote:
| >After buying it, I haven't printed a single sheet of paper for
| note-taking.
|
| OTOH you can buy a whole lot of $3 spiral notebooks for the
| price of an ipad pro
| nozzlegear wrote:
| I was just thinking this myself. I have the 12.9" 2018 iPad Pro
| and was considering pulling the trigger on this new iPad Pro
| announced today. But I really have no reason to, my current one
| runs perfectly and I've even got the floating keyboard case
| which is backwards compatible with it. It's replaced my laptop
| entirely, instead I just ssh into my Mac at home and use vim if
| I feel like writing some code on the road or from bed.
|
| Honestly have no complaints with this 2018 model, it's one of
| my favorite pieces of hardware I've ever owned and in fact is
| what introduced me to the Apple ecosystem (where I'm now fully
| submersed) in the first place.
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| > in fact is what introduced me to the Apple ecosystem (where
| I'm now fully submersed) in the first place.
|
| If you'd be willing to expand on this, I'd be very interested
| to hear more.
|
| I used to be all-in on Apple devices circa 2010, but drifted
| back to Windows and Android for gaming & better notification
| UX (and Windows being a much more familiar OS to me).
| However, I don't game on PC anymore, and I've become
| increasingly unhappy with the privacy concerns regarding
| Google's ecosystem.
|
| I got a 2020 iPad and the UX is leagues ahead of my aging
| Samsung Galaxy S9. Given this and the aforementioned privacy
| concerns, I've been considering once again switching to an
| iPhone and MacBook. Therefore, it would be very valuable to
| me to hear more about your experiences (and others who have
| made the same switch and happen to read this).
| srvmshr wrote:
| Very interesting! Can you please share your preferred apps
| for ssh/remote access to your home server or Mac? I think I
| could use that recommendation.
| astrojams wrote:
| Blink.sh is my favorite ssh app for the iPad.
| unixfg wrote:
| My favorite so far has been Prompt2, but I'm down to try
| others!
| nozzlegear wrote:
| Sure! I started off using the Termius app for ssh, but
| ended up moving to Blink. It's been so long that I can't
| really say why I stopped using Termius, but Blink works
| really well. It has a lot of built-in bash commands, but
| honestly I don't find those that useful since I'm not
| working on local files. I think if Blink had vim built-in
| I'd use those commands a lot more, but right now I just
| open Blink and immediately ssh into my home machine. I have
| a couple ssh aliases set up for that -- one that uses my
| local network if I'm at home, and one that connects to my
| home IP address if I'm out on the road.
|
| The only special setup that I had to do on my Mac was
| allowing ssh connections and adding the public key that the
| Blink app created for me. When I was on Windows I found
| that I had to map the command and option keys from my iPad
| keyboard to my custom vim keybindings, but now that I use a
| Mac as well that's not necessary.
|
| Edit: here's a picture of my iPad ssh'd into my Mac and
| editing some F# code. It works well! https://www.dropbox.co
| m/s/ilh16cesqj8ovi9/IMG_7535.jpeg?dl=0
| srvmshr wrote:
| This looks incredibly good. How's the typing latency &
| bash completion? Thanks for sharing a photo - gives much
| richer perspective.
| nozzlegear wrote:
| If I'm on my home network the latency is impossible to
| notice, I might as well be at my Mac. Same goes for bash
| completion, it works flawlessly. Once I'm off my home
| network it's a slightly different story, it just depends
| on the internet connection wherever I happen to be
| connecting from. For example I stayed at a hotel in
| Fargo, ND a few weeks ago and the latency was fine for
| the most part, but there were moments where the typing or
| completion would lag behind by a second or two and then
| catch up. Almost like lag in a video game.
|
| Blink has mosh in addition to ssh, which if I understand
| correctly is much better suited to handling higher
| latency connections like that. I just haven't taken the
| time to set it up at home, so I can't really say how it
| performs.
|
| All in all, if you're curious about using the iPad for
| this kind of thing I really recommend it. I absolutely
| love mine. Apple is pretty generous with their return
| policy too, I've returned a handful of their laptops just
| because I had buyer's remorse!
| srvmshr wrote:
| Nah, good heavens I won't return it :) I have a workplace
| M1 11in model, but its late for me - so I am going to try
| this fun project tomorrow.
|
| But thanks for generously replying with so much detail.
| Much appreciated.
| kstrauser wrote:
| Another vote for Blink. In particular, its mosh support
| is brilliant.
|
| Short version: after installing mosh-server on the remote
| machine, you run "mosh remotehost" instead of "ssh
| remotehost". It uses SSH to establish an encrypted UDP
| "connection" to the server. If your IP changes, Blink
| instantly re-establishes a connection. If you pause your
| iPad for a week and come back to it, Blink instantly re-
| establishes a connection.
|
| What this means in practice is that I can start doing
| something at home. Oops, time to leave: I take my iPad on
| with me on the bus to the office, pair it with my phone,
| and continue working _from the same session_. Get to work
| and switch to Wi-Fi, and I keep using that same session.
| It 's freaking magical.
| candiddevmike wrote:
| Anyone use an iPad as their daily driver?
| CGamesPlay wrote:
| I have been, for backend development only. I live most of my
| life in Blink shell connected to a Linux machine. Works great
| as a very expensive dumb terminal. https://blink.sh/
|
| Cons:
|
| - Multitasking is weak. You can put two windows next to one
| another as long as you want them to be in a vertical split. The
| "pull out" side window feature doesn't work on the home screen
| for no discernible reason, so if you have Things in the side
| app then open it from the home screen, it's no longer opened in
| the side app and you have to manually move it back. (append: I
| haven't tried Stage Manager yet; maybe it will address some of
| this)
|
| - Hardware keyboard support is pretty weak. The settings app
| and shortcuts app are two examples of apps with bad keyboard
| support. The "full keyboard access" is a very strange modality:
| it turns tab into a chording key. There's no equivalent to
| "focus all elements" as there is on desktop, so for example if
| I press tab from this text box, the "reply button" is not
| selected; the search at the bottom of the page is.
|
| - Web access is a must. Individual apps might provide offline
| support, but many have sub-par sync systems, where you'll
| discovered that your offline files have helpfully been
| completely deleted and require resyncing, but since you're
| already on the plane by that point you're out of luck.
|
| All in all: works great as an expensive dumb terminal.
| bluedino wrote:
| My brother does, his just broke and has been waiting for the
| new release. He's a teacher and just uses it for email, grading
| papers, etc.
| mise_en_place wrote:
| Only as an e-reader, mainly because I lost my Kindle between
| moves. Other than that I don't use it for much.
| jerkstate wrote:
| I did for ~5 years but switched to the m2 air, complex tasks
| and multi tasking are much much easier, as well as dev work
| which is possible in a very limited way on iPad. I always used
| it with the keyboard attached and the laptop has a better hinge
| for screen angle too
| mnholt wrote:
| I did with the 2018 11" + Magic Keyboard. I felt very capable
| of doing most day-to-day tasking with the keyboard and mouse.
| Video calls sucked because the camera is off to the side when
| in the Magic Keyboard. Stage Manager might help even more, I
| found the previous "windowing" features to be lacking.
| Maursault wrote:
| I use a 5th gen iPad mini for web, email, telephony, ebooks,
| photos & video capture, but I use older Intel Macs (MBP 2010 &
| mini 2012) for local media server, storage, photo and video
| editing, torrent, file manipulation and transcoding, word
| processing & desktop publishing, pdf generation & editing, VM &
| emulation, and all the things that iDevices won't easily or
| gracefully allow or anything I happen to prefer on macOS.
| Granted, with effort, one can do nearly everything on iDevice,
| but it isn't always convenient. But upwards of 90% of the
| things I use Apple technology for is web browsing, email, and
| watching a movie or tv show, and this incidentally makes my
| Macs more secure and less needy of administration. I would like
| to have a new Mac, but I really can't justify it because I no
| longer use them for web and email, all the old Mac software can
| still do what I need it to do, although heavy processing takes
| longer, because the Macs are really in the background, it
| doesn't slow me down.
| hayst4ck wrote:
| Some things work great on the iPad, and for those things the
| iPad is absolutely fantastic and I will often prefer to use it.
|
| If you want to infinitely scroll, the iPad is unparalleled. It
| is great for reading and watching. I like it as a game device.
| It is great for reading news and I enjoy apple's news widgets.
| Kindle works well. If you want to consume, the iPad is an
| amazing tool for consumption.
|
| Additionally in the last year, apple made it really easy to use
| your iPad as a second screen, either as an iPad or as a literal
| second screen for your macbook. I found myself doing that more
| and more.
|
| I bought the apple pencil thinking it can't possibly be worth
| the money, but it is an enjoyable device to use. Writing text
| on an iPad is more gimmick than feature (for me), but I find it
| a pleasurable way to scroll or navigate apps.
|
| That being said, once you want to do a task with a keyboard,
| there is no replacing a laptop. The iPad is also locked down
| (no terminal, only safari) such that a laptop is still
| necessary. The iPad is still very much a luxury device and
| could not stand on its own. Phones and laptops both have
| features that the iPad does not have that make them necessary.
| The iPad offers nothing that makes it necessary unless you
| consider an ancillary screen for your laptop necessary.
| manv1 wrote:
| Been using my iPad pro 2017 12.9 since 2015. It's basically my
| email/web/books/video/social device, but also can do work stuff
| in a pinch. It's not ideal for work, but it's more practical
| than my 12 mini if I need to do emergency stuff.
|
| I also use it for presentations, sketch out designs and
| architecture, etc, but it's harder to clean up documents on the
| iPad because the editing on it is awkward compared do a laptop.
| For certain things diction works, but just copying and pasting
| a couple of rows in excel (or any spreadsheet like thing) is
| just really bad.
|
| That said, the tool you have with you is the best tool, and
| it's really portable. It's 7 years old at this point and still
| going strong. It won't use a bunch of the new features in 16,
| but since I don't use those anyway I don't care.
|
| If you want to test out an iPad, pick up a 1st or 2nd gen iPad
| Pro. I have three of them around the house (including mine) and
| the other two get used all the time for video/games/browsing.
| gorkish wrote:
| It's still pathetic they won't let you run OS X on it.
| orangecat wrote:
| From Apple's perspective, macOS is a legacy product with the
| undesirable ability to run software of your choice without
| giving them a cut.
| Toutouxc wrote:
| Just FYI, it's been called "macOS" for the last eight years.
| The last OS X was El Capitan.
| akmarinov wrote:
| First time for Wi-Fi 6E on Apple hardware. Expecting that in the
| new MBPs as well
| __jl__ wrote:
| The iPad Pro is an amazing piece of hardware! But the last
| iterations make zero difference for most consumers. The hardware
| improved rapidly over a couple of years. Both the 2017 model
| (move from 9.7 to 10.5 screen) and the 2018 model (new design
| without home bottom, USB-C, Gen 2 Pencil) were huge steps. Magic
| Keyboard from 2020 was a great addition as well and works with
| the 2018 model. For my own usage, the 2018 model is pretty much
| feature complete from a hardware perspective. Software makes the
| big difference now.
|
| I am still amazed by my 2018 iPad pro four years later!
| [deleted]
| nomilk wrote:
| Any signs of a new MacBook Pro 16" with this announcement (or any
| indication of when we may hear something)?
| carlosbaraza wrote:
| Apparently M2 Pro will launch in November, not October
| https://www.tomsguide.com/news/new-macbook-pros-with-m2-pro-...
| lapcat wrote:
| I love how "Desktop-class apps" means extremely basic features
| available decades ago on desktop: "consistent undo and redo, a
| redesigned inline find-and-replace experience, a new document
| menu, customizable toolbars, and the ability to change file
| extensions, view folder size".
| stinos wrote:
| Well, they can't push it too far because then it would become
| something too close to an actual laptop/tablet hybrid.
| duxup wrote:
| I'd argue that is exactly what they are doing. Their
| promotional material and many users are already using iPads
| as desktops... and they seem to be catering to them.
| stinos wrote:
| Could be, but at what point will they stop, i.e. how long
| before the iPad becomes the Macbook Air? In any case: if
| they don't stop then I'd think one of those would have to
| go, makes little sense keeping 2 product lines which are
| like almost the same?
| duxup wrote:
| I suspect that will happen eventually.
|
| My M2 air is as thick as my iPad ...
|
| Having said that it is also MUCH heavier (relative to
| what I'd like an iPad to be) and has a noticeably bigger
| screen.
|
| Not sure how fast those gaps get closed.
| bombcar wrote:
| When the iPad Pro is as expensive or more than the Air,
| and they feel they have the software down pat.
| lupire wrote:
| iPad Pro already costs more than Air in many
| configurations.
| bluescrn wrote:
| The iPad doesn't become the Macbook Air until it can run
| XCode and you can develop, compile, and test iPad apps on
| the iPad itself.
| lijogdfljk wrote:
| > if they don't stop then I'd think one of those would
| have to go, makes little sense keeping 2 product lines
| which are like almost the same?
|
| I feel like this is exactly what they want. My only
| question is how much i'll be able to modify my laptop
| long term. Ie i run Nixpkgs (ie the package system from
| NixOS) on my laptop. The day i can't modify my Mac OS to
| my liking is the day i stop buying their laptops.
|
| I do think there's a market for people who want laptops
| that have the lockdown of phones. Where less things can
| go wrong because you can't change a lot.
| smoldesu wrote:
| > The day i can't modify my Mac OS to my liking is the
| day i stop buying their laptops.
|
| That was my mentality too. For me, the cutoff came when
| Catalina dropped (and I couldn't run 32-bit libraries,
| even after modding MacOS). Nix was the last thing keeping
| my sanity together when I last used MacOS. When they pull
| the plug on that, it's going to be a sad day...
|
| > I do think there's a market for people who want laptops
| that have the lockdown of phones. Where less things can
| go wrong because you can't change a lot.
|
| I agree. That's a software problem though, not a hardware
| problem. Much like the situation on iPhone, Apple could
| easily offer a "pro mode" or "developer mode" that offers
| extended functionality while disabling certain high-
| security features.
| 0x457 wrote:
| A long time.
|
| If MacBook Air is a browser machine, then it's already
| happened. If it's a creative work machine, then well,
| it's close, but you still probably have a some kind of PC
| nearby.
|
| If it's a developer machine, then the best iPad can do is
| being a ssh terminal or VSCode browser. A superb
| terminal, I use it every day to work because I don't have
| personal laptop.
| tshaddox wrote:
| It seems reasonable for "desktop-class" to refer to the basic
| features that have typically distinguished desktop personal
| computers from alternatives like smartphones and tablets. What
| else would you expect "desktop-class" to mean?
| ohgodplsno wrote:
| Powerful features that are more than a glorified ^Z.
| Reminding actions to finger shortcuts, quick access through a
| command palette, etc.
|
| It'd be like me calling McDonald's restaurant-class because
| they could suddenly give you a plate. Sure, it's a component,
| but the porcelain isn't why I go to a restaurant, it's to
| have a qualified cook doing things with his expertise.
| [deleted]
| rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote:
| I think OP is saying it's strange that many "desktop"
| applications today lack these basic desktop features.
| [deleted]
| fsflover wrote:
| > What else would you expect "desktop-class" to mean?
|
| For example, PineTab runs full desktop GNU/Linux.
| woojoo666 wrote:
| well the Surface Pro runs full Windows
| willis936 wrote:
| It has always been artificial market segmentation. Their
| message is clear: don't buy apple if you want a laptop with a
| touchscreen. Apple will only sell you oversized phones and
| regular laptops.
| mrweasel wrote:
| > don't buy apple if you want a laptop with a touchscreen
|
| Keep buying Apple laptops, got it. I know that a large number
| of people keep asking for laptop with touchscreen, but this
| is one design decision where I whole heartedly with Apple.
| Touchscreen on laptops make no sense. The use case for a
| touchscreen is significantly different from a laptop that it
| makes sense to have two classes of devices.
|
| Then again, I don't really get the large number of iPads sold
| either. It seems like an extremely niche devices which would
| only find a use case in certain types of industry.
| ryanmcbride wrote:
| Yeah I've never used a laptop and wished I could touch the
| screen to do something. I don't want to lift my hands off
| my desk to move something around on the screen. I might not
| be a good representation though because I don't even like
| moving my hand off the keyboard to use the mouse
| smoldesu wrote:
| Touchscreens on a laptop are kinda silly, especially if
| it isn't convertible. I will say though, I use
| touchscreen gestures to navigate my desktops pretty
| frequently. Blindly reaching for a three-finger swipe
| feels a lot more natural than pausing to look down at my
| Touch Bar and figure out what the hell I want to press...
| mrweasel wrote:
| I use the magic trackpad, that feels more natural that
| touching the screen. 95% of the time my laptop is docker
| to a USB-C monitor, so having a touchscreen would be a
| little weird. For professional use, I'd guess that most
| people have a larger monitor hooked up anyway. For a
| touchscreen to make sense, my monitor would need to be
| touch as well.
|
| The issue with the Touch Bar is the same, that's not a
| professional feature, or even particular useful. Apple
| knows this, because you can't buy a magic keyboard with
| the Touch Bar. If it was useful, the Touch Bar would also
| appear on the those and it doesn't. I'd love to know how
| many MacBook Pros are sold with and without the Touch
| Bar.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Trackpad gestures are great too, I use my Magic Trackpad
| 2 on my Linux desktop where I don't have any
| touchscreens. Still though, I think the display as a
| multitouch surface shouldn't be overlooked. It's pretty
| much perfect for gesturing.
| filoleg wrote:
| The best part is that those trackpad gestures translate
| almost 1:1 from macOS to iPadOS. And you can use magic
| trackpad with iPad too (although it makes more sense for
| me personally to use the trackpad built into the iPad
| magic keyboard case). I havent really used iPad shortcuts
| before all that much, but once i accidentally triggered a
| few of them after using it with a trackpad due to the
| muscle memory from macOS, it all clicked perfectly.
| BoorishBears wrote:
| I've had a Macbook with a touchscreen
|
| I installed OS X on my old Asus Zenbook and the touchscreen
| still functioned... but yeah not once did I ever think "wow
| I want to apply my fingers to my laptop screen instead of
| using the large precise touch surface within easier reach"
| besides for novelty
| AlexandrB wrote:
| And don't buy a Windows laptop if you want a laptop without a
| touchscreen because the UI will be designed for touch even if
| you only use a mouse. Although macOS is unfortunately
| trending in this direction also.
| guhidalg wrote:
| Complain to the developers? Windows will tell applications
| if they're in laptop or tablet mode, if you don't like
| tablet mode then don't use it.
| michaelt wrote:
| You could actually get a full desktop experience from a tablet
| back in 2003, with products like the NEC Versa Litepad [1]
| running Windows XP. With a fully-fledged x86 processor, you
| could run anything a desktop could run.
|
| It was pretty neat, but I can tell you from experience that
| coding using handwriting recognition isn't a great experience
| :)
|
| [1] https://www.cnet.com/reviews/nec-versa-litepad-tablet-pc-
| vlp...
| duxup wrote:
| Not sure the desktop has moved beyond that though.
|
| So seems about right.
| ape4 wrote:
| Maybe the "pencil hover experience" will finally allow desktop-
| style "tool tips". So you can know what a button does before
| tapping.
| gnicholas wrote:
| True, but only for users of the v2 Apple Pencil with the new
| iPad Pro. For folks with v1, or with an iPad/Pro that doesn't
| support hover (or who just use our fingers), discoverability
| will continue to be a challenge...
| [deleted]
| dzhiurgis wrote:
| > consistent undo and redo
|
| Safari history has been broken for something like 4-5 years.
| About 1% of time back button will take you one step too far
| (i.e. will show your home page instead of google serp)
| lupire wrote:
| Can you drag the cursor with your finger to a specific
| character in-text yet, without selecting text? 2018 iPad can't.
| tshaddox wrote:
| My 2017 iPad Pro can do that. I can tap and drag on the
| cursor to move it. I can also long-tap and drag on the
| spacebar to move the cursor like a touchpad. I can also drag
| with 2 fingers anywhere on the keyboard to move the cursor
| like a touchpad. The first 2 options also work on my iPhone.
| kkruglov wrote:
| Long tap space bar and it should become something like a
| trackpad for the cursor.
| ryanmcbride wrote:
| God damn thank you. This interaction used to be triggered
| by deep pressing on the keyboard and it drove me insane
| when they got rid of it, I couldn't find any settings to
| turn it back on but this works!
| kaba0 wrote:
| It's also the same on iphones.
| stewx wrote:
| > the 16-core Neural Engine can process 15.8 trillion operations
| per second -- 40 percent more than M1 -- making iPad Pro even
| more powerful when handling machine learning tasks
|
| Do people actually use the iPad for machine learning?
| edude03 wrote:
| Yeah actually, it's really good for inference at the edge. You
| might be thinking of training though which I doubt anyone does
| drewg123 wrote:
| As far as I know, this is the first Apple hardware to support
| Wifi 6E, which is something I've been waiting on for what feels
| like forever.
|
| I'm hoping the rumored new laptops will also support 6E.
|
| For those that don't know, Wifi-6E uses the 6Ghz band, and I
| anticipate it will be very helpful in crowded residential
| environments where lots of Wifi APs are all landing on the same
| few 2.4 and 5Ghz channels.
| jessriedel wrote:
| I can't understand the emphasis on more bandwidth. The pain
| with wifi is _overwhelmingly_ dominated by the slowness
| establishing a connection (why does it take more than a
| second?!), with connection reliability and latency (for video
| calls) also being important.
|
| "Wifi 7: 10 Terrabyte/sec transfer speeds" *yawn*
|
| "Wifi 7: Connects in 500 ms, latency 20 ms, tri-band fallover
| for 5-nines reliability" *Opens checkbook*
| bombcar wrote:
| All I want is wireless devices that can be connected to my
| 2.4GHz and 5Gz network _at the same time with the same IP_.
| herpderperator wrote:
| Dual-band (one device using both 2.4GHz and 5GHz) has
| existed for over a decade.
| chrisbolt wrote:
| That only uses one band at a time, with separate IPs and
| MAC addresses for each.
| herpderperator wrote:
| That's not what simultaneous dual-band means.[0]
|
| [0]
| https://www.google.com/search?q=simultaneous+dual+band
| jayd16 wrote:
| Wifi is still time sliced, right? More bandwidth means more
| idle time means lower latency, no?
| crazygringo wrote:
| I've never once noticed slowness in _connecting_ as bothering
| me at all. Are you connecting to new Wi-Fi networks hundreds
| of times a day or something? My iPad just... stays connected
| to the networks it knows.
|
| And I believe that higher bandwidth _is_ the solution to
| better reliability and latency when you 've got lots of
| devices sharing the same router, or other interference. Isn't
| that how digital radio works?
| jessriedel wrote:
| In fairness, I do notice the time to connect to my home
| network much more when waking my Macbook Pro from sleep
| than my iPad. But it is still noticeable on the iPad.
|
| The place where the slowness is most noticeable on iPad is
| when I want to reconnect it to my iPhone's hotspot. I need
| to reconnect many times per day because the iPhone turns
| off the hotspot when its unused for 90 seconds to save
| battery, and this behavior _infuriatingly_ cannot be
| disabled.
| JCharante wrote:
| I notice it all the time. The delay is really annoy when
| you go in an elevator (so no cell signal) and wait for it
| to reconnect to your wifi when you step out.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Apple stuff connects faster. Some folks say they "cheat." I
| think by assuming the connection established before it got
| a proper reply.
|
| Other OSs don't do that, so it seems like it takes a longer
| time.
| nfriedly wrote:
| Agreed! The thing about 6ghz is that it doesn't travel through
| walls as well, and tends to have shorter range in general.
|
| On the surface, this seems like a negative, but if you're in a
| crowded apartment building, it can actually be a major benefit.
| Even if a bunch of your neighbors end up using it on the same
| channel as you, you won't experience as much interference
| because the walls will attenuate their signals.
|
| Of course, a single AP might not reliably cover your entire
| home in 6ghz, but you can always fall back to 2.4 and 5ghz
| and/or get more APs.
|
| Additionally, WiFi 6 (and 6e) is better in general at detecting
| neighboring networks across all frequency bands and reducing
| interference automatically.
| sumtechguy wrote:
| One of my neighbors put in 8 access points for about
| 1000sqft. Swamped everyone else out. That is what
| unfortunately will happen. :(
| nfriedly wrote:
| If they're configured correctly, multiple APs on a given
| network can actually lead to lower congestion, because they
| can each lower their signal strength to only cover a small
| area... but it sounds like that isn't what happened here.
|
| 8 in a single small home is absurdly excessive. My home is
| more than twice that size and I only have a single AP
| (although I have been considering adding 1-2 more.)
| lma21 wrote:
| The iPad Pro is one of the expensive products that I never regret
| paying 800$ for. Incredible speed, smooth UX, long lasting
| battery, really doesn't even come close to the previous (Intel-
| powered) iPads.
| carlob wrote:
| Intel based iPads?
| skyyler wrote:
| With context I think it's pretty clear that they meant
| tablet.
|
| My thinkpad tablets are thick, hot, and the battery lasts
| around 3 hours of light use.
| spullara wrote:
| There have never been Intel based iPads.
| at_a_remove wrote:
| I was told to expect wireless charging for these. I was excited
| about this, because my mother has an irrational "thing" about
| wires, and an uncharged iPad is a useless iPad.
| nomel wrote:
| There are many lightning charge docks [1]. Maybe something like
| that could work, if securely mounted to the back of a table, to
| hide the hanging wire.
|
| Wireless charging pads also have cables. Do you hide them in
| table surfaces?
|
| 1. Random example:
| https://www.belkin.com/th/chargers/wireless/charging-stands-...
| at_a_remove wrote:
| Yeah, this is what I think I will have to go with, much as I
| dislike it.
| lifeinthevoid wrote:
| How large a piece of the chip is that 16 core Neural Engine
| eating? I'd rather have a more powerful CPU + GPU or am I missing
| the point a bit? Anyone care to shed some light?
| null_object wrote:
| Pretty much everyone here knocking the iPad Pros for being
| consumption-only passive entertainment devices.
|
| But I guess the artists, musicians, video-editors and
| photographers using them professionally would disagree, if they
| ever came here.
| srvmshr wrote:
| I use the LiDAR of the iPad Pro to capture full schematic of
| room in 3D to prepare spatial datasets.
|
| It isn't perfect. The sampling rate of iPad Pro is still lower
| than professional 3D cameras, but I can't complain when they
| cost a fraction of the latter. 3DScanner and similar apps do a
| great job at stitching the volumetric data on the fly &
| rendering on iPad itself (before I transfer).
|
| We use these data to do some inference via 3D computer vision
| projects for clients
| TheRealNGenius wrote:
| BudaDude wrote:
| I am a hobbyist video editor and I am excited for this iPad. I
| never thought I would see Davinci Resolve come to it.
| Especially before Final Cut.
| FearlessNebula wrote:
| The thing is, is the iPad really the best device at the price
| point for these people? Artist seems like the only one.
|
| - for a musician, surely the full featured desktop software is
| better? And for $800 you can get a pretty good laptop - video
| editors must also prefer a desktop OS. They can use keyboard
| hot keys, industry standard software, and get better GPU
| hardware - photographers might do pretty well with an iPad Pro
| but again I think they'd probably still be best with desktop
| class photoshop - a casual artist I will contend probably does
| best with an iPad Pro. But if they start doing really serious
| professional work, they will again probably want the full
| desktop software and an expensive Wacom hardware to go
| alongside
|
| So at both casual and professional levels, the iPad Pro really
| only makes sense for a casual illustrator from what I can see.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| It's very frustrating that you can't even do simple operations
| on files that were standard on the '84 Macintosh. I'm not
| talking about rocket-science or a git-based build system.
|
| I had high hopes for the Files app when it debuted, and was
| very disappointed.
| jessriedel wrote:
| I use it everyday for handwritten math. Unfortunately, the
| software is meager compared to the hardware.
| adrr wrote:
| Do creative types use Ipad Pros? The IPadOS file system is less
| than optimal. Adobe apps are the real thing and missing
| features.
|
| My company has a full video team, and photo team. No one has
| asked for an IPad Pro. They do have proXDR screens and some
| beefy macs. Only execs have them for a high end zoom boxes
| especially if they have a windows laptop that have poor mics
| and cameras. Center stage feature is really nice.
| musictubes wrote:
| Are there any creatives that don't work in industry? Video
| teams that use Mac Pros and Pro Display XDR wouldn't even be
| able to use a MacBook Pro does that mean the MacBook Pro
| can't be used by creatives?
|
| So yes, creatives use the iPads. It is the main driver for
| more performance on an ipad. Drawing, audio performance,
| photo editing, hell, they are great second displays for
| MacBooks.
| [deleted]
| hbn wrote:
| This thread was started with a comment about iPads being
| used by professionals in these industries.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| Now ask the full video team to spend 30 weeks of a year
| travelling around the world, producing video on locations.
|
| I bet you they won't want to lug around the proXDR screens
| and beefy macs at that point.
| hbn wrote:
| They'd probably go for a MacBook Pro that has the software
| they use before an iPad.
| dagmx wrote:
| It's a big issue with the audience of this site being too hyper
| focused on software development.
|
| You can see it taken one step further in threads about GitHub
| Copilot getting torn to bits but the threads on Stable
| Diffusion getting lauded as the end of artists.
|
| It's the double standards that come up when people fixate only
| on what they know well themselves.
| bovermyer wrote:
| Yeah... I like Copilot for helping me with specific
| coding/data entry tasks, and I like Stable Diffusion for
| helping with my art workflow (I'm also an artist). I tend to
| keep quiet about such opinions on here, though, because I
| know I'll get downvoted into oblivion for heresy.
| yamtaddle wrote:
| > Pretty much everyone here knocking the iPad Pros for being
| consumption-only passive entertainment devices.
|
| Yeah, this criticism has never made sense to me. I think it
| could only come from people for whom the only purpose of
| computers is to make software, not to get out and... you know,
| _do things_ with the software, in the actual world. I-devices
| excel at that. They are excellent _computers as tools_ for
| doing things that aren 't focused on locally testing docker
| containers or whatever we all do in our day jobs that require
| less-portable and kinda-dumber (their "view of the world", if
| you will, is much more limited) desktops and laptops.
| EugeneOZ wrote:
| And kids. My daughter is using her iPad extensively, and not
| only for games - she is drawing a lot, and her current CPU is
| already pushing the limits in some sophisticated drawing apps.
| hbn wrote:
| I'll give you that artists use them for drawing.
|
| But professional musicians, video editors, and photographers?
| All the software for doing any of those things is kneecapped
| versions of Mac apps. If they use an iPad at all it's as some
| kind of supplementary tool for the real machine the work gets
| done on.
| boppo1 wrote:
| > But I guess the artists, musicians, video-editors and
| photographers using them professionally would disagree, if they
| ever came here.
|
| I do. But be glad we generally don't, it would probably lower
| the quality of discussion.
| jdlyga wrote:
| "Hover" with the Apple Pencil is something that my Tablet PC in
| 2003 could do. Still, I'm very glad that tablets in 2022 finally
| have this feature.
| jonas-w wrote:
| Wait you couldn't hover over the ipad and it didn't show you a
| pointer? The galaxy tablets had this since a few generations,
| why didn't apple do this earlier?
| twobitshifter wrote:
| it seems to be an m2 feature only
| roody15 wrote:
| I Work IT in a institution with 290 employees and have had 5
| switch to iPad Pro's to "replace" their laptop. I am now 5 for 5
| with all asking for their laptop back.
|
| iPadOS is nothing more than iPhoneOS renamed and the device is
| still too heavily crippled for desktop/laptop replacement.
|
| In my mini test case scenario I never said a word..simply the
| employee asked for iPad Pro.. I just handed it to them...
| waited... then about 2 weeks later they asked for laptop back.
|
| Not sure what Apple's plan here is but they continue to market
| this to schools and workplaces as a laptop replacement but refuse
| to add functionality to the OS and keep it overly
| crippled/restricted.
| hellomyguys wrote:
| If they're competing against Chromebooks, they're maybe better
| actually.
| martin_drapeau wrote:
| My daughter is 16 and has used an iPad for school for many
| years. Latptops are foreign to her. Same for her cohort. They
| are the next generation of adults and have replaced desktops
| and laptops with iPads and iPhones.
| anotherman554 wrote:
| I believe Chromebooks are more popular in the education
| market in general.
| solaceb wrote:
| That is scary to me, an entire generation growing up within
| the walled garden and perceiving only Apple's products as
| what is possible for computers to accomplish. These computers
| are confining, as much as their constriction liberates the
| user in its simplicity, it is a real constriction. To me,
| that's exactly what the FLOSS movement hoped to avoid, and
| failed to do so by advocating for a purist f/open stance
| rather than winning smaller battles with open source at least
| staying in the war for market share.
| thepasswordis wrote:
| Not just the walled garden. iPads are simply less capable
| as productivity devices than a laptop is.
|
| Right now, for instance, I have this page open in a web
| browser, which has youtube playing in one tab, twitter in
| another, and this in yet another. I also have an iPhone
| simulator running behind this browser, a terminal window
| tail -f ing a logfile, and vscode in another window.
|
| All of this stuff is open at the same time. I can hear
| audio from all of it, access all of it, see all of it, all
| at the same time. This is not possible on an iPad.
| rpastuszak wrote:
| True, but that's not how most people use their devices.
| cute_boi wrote:
| I think multitasking is the basic operation and these are
| normal operation. Ipad is seriously limited by Apple
| wallgarden design.
|
| And, I think many people work like this if it will ever
| be available in wall gardened ipad.
| mort96 wrote:
| Right, but some people do. And the people who do, used to
| be people who don't. And those people became people who
| do because it was possible. It is a bit worrying to me
| that so many people will be growing up with devices with
| such a low "skill ceiling"; devices which don't let your
| interest in technology bloom but rather restrict what can
| be imagined.
| timdavila wrote:
| > And the people who do, used to be people who don't.
|
| Yep. Walled gardens kill curiosity.
|
| Curiosity is what got me into this industry, way before I
| knew it could be a career. Playing around, messing with
| files that ran my games, making web forums and learning
| to change how they look.
| fragmede wrote:
| When was the last time you used iPadOS? It can run
| multiple programs, and can display two side-by-side just
| fine. Yeah that means it's a little clunky if you need to
| switch between three or more apps, but it's not like it
| can't have apps in the background when you can't see
| them. (Plus, no need to simulate anything, you're on a
| real iOS device.) There's still no Xcode for iOS, though
| there is Swift Playgrounds if you're an iOS developer,
| and VScode still hasn't made it to the App store, but
| it's got a keyboard and a mouse so if you squint a
| little, it's fine for a large segment of users.
|
| Sure there are limitations; you can't hit F12 and drop
| into developer tools in Chrome, plus iOS Chrome is just
| reskinned Safari anyway. Oh and the sound thing. I'm not
| saying a full laptop doesn't have more, but the lost
| capabilities simply aren't showstoppers for everyone,
| especially if you're not a developer. In fact, because
| they can have build in cell-modems and macbook air's
| don't, combined with the fact that there are decent SSH
| clients, it's actually a _better_ device for some.
| scarface74 wrote:
| As opposed to other schools that use ChromeOS devices?
| barbariangrunge wrote:
| My use case for this would be fairly simple: future proofing,
| to make it unlikely to need a new tablet for 10 years
| afro88 wrote:
| Given how you approached it (zero guidance and support), I'm
| not surprised all 5 asked for their laptops back.
| jxdxbx wrote:
| I don't like how Apple is making the iPad more laptop-y. My
| ideal is to use a normal desktop computer, and an iPad. No
| laptop. But if I had to pick only one of course it would be a
| laptop.
| blinkingled wrote:
| It's a great consumption device though - ever since Google
| stopped paying attention to the tablet space we have an iPad
| 9.7 that lays in the kitchen and all my family members only
| touch it for watching Netflix or YouTube.
|
| Even for browsing it feels very slow compared to Surface tablet
| or even Firefox on M1 MBP now a days.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| It depends on the user.
|
| Execs and task oriented workers are great iPad use cases. In a
| global org I'm familiar with, they run about 15k iPads, about
| 5-10% of the IT engaged headcount. Senior execs in large orgs
| in particular are ideal in the iPad environment.
|
| For schools, I think the iPad sweet spot is grade K-4 for
| dedicated devices; 4-8 is Chrome and 8+ can be Mac/Chrome/PC.
| For shared or purpose dedicated devices, iPads fit every level.
|
| Lots of other use case are limited by legacy or enterprise
| software. Police patrol car, medical point of service and point
| of sale are examples of use cases where iPads would be the
| ideal solution, but for the existing software.
| alana314 wrote:
| I use the ipad for reading music scores but would never replace
| it with a laptop. M1 and M2 is overkill for a consumption
| device that doesn't have a real file system accessible to the
| user.
| tiahura wrote:
| It's not just that the OS is crippled, the apps are as well.
|
| Trying to quickly navigate between apps, edit, and copy and
| paste, is an exercise in frustration.
| miiiiiike wrote:
| I have my iPad Pro+Magic Keyboard with me 24/7. I wish I could
| code on it but that's it. For everything else it's perfect.
| Lio wrote:
| What kills it for me are the apps where you can't copy a single
| word. e.g. Apple's own Messages app, you're forced to copy the
| whole message.
|
| Same for the spell checker. For some reason I have ridiculous
| trouble triggering it in certain apps. I can see the mistake
| underlined in red but I really struggle to get trigger the
| correction popup instead of the "copy, lookup, etc" popup.
|
| Maybe it's just me but I don't think I could consider an iPad
| as laptop replacements without some basic changes to iPadOS.
| thiht wrote:
| > apps where you can't copy a single word
|
| This one is ridiculous. On Reddit I always want to quote part
| of a message or copy a phrase to translate it, and it's
| literally impossible to do. You have to copy the whole
| message, paste it in a text editor or in Notes, and finally
| copy what you actually wanted to copy.
|
| This should be solved at the OS level.
| JimDabell wrote:
| > In my mini test case scenario I never said a word..simply the
| employee asked for iPad Pro.. I just handed it to them...
| waited... then about 2 weeks later they asked for laptop back.
|
| If you work in IT with hundreds of staff members, why would you
| let them pick their own devices with zero guidance? This seems
| like a recipe for disaster no matter which product is picked.
| Do you let them do this with laptops / printers / operating
| systems / etc.?
| roody15 wrote:
| Nope there are only three computer models to choose from and
| that we support. The iPad Pro was added as a 4th option based
| on a higher admin recommendation (not in IT ). However we are
| now back to supporting 3 models.
| getcrunk wrote:
| What are the three laptop models
| washadjeffmad wrote:
| We have over 3000 employees with Apple equipment as their
| primary device, and probably 200 of them are iPad Pro only.
|
| They do serve different niches than laptops, but with a
| keyboard case in an Office 365 environment, they can be full
| office/productivity replacements for anyone who prioritizes
| light travel over running local software.
| qubex wrote:
| I have an executive roll and I used an iPad almost exclusively
| from probably 2013 until about six months ago. It's eminently
| doable.
| jeremy_wiebe wrote:
| Without a clear description of what these employees were using
| their iPads for, it's impossible for anyone else to use this
| info to determine if their scenario fits yours.
|
| Your ability to use iPad full-time depends heavily on the type
| of work you do.
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| Kids who don't know better might become accustomed to it and,
| unless they are power users or interested to become that, they
| might prefer to scrape by with the iPad.
|
| There is pretty strong evidence that people aren't great at
| using full fledged operating systems and feel much more
| comfortable on a slate with a dumbed down UI
| criddell wrote:
| Most people aren't power users. An iPad is a great device for
| lots of people. It's my favorite computer to use mostly
| because of the excellent apps.
|
| What you call _a dumbed down UI_ , I call streamlined. It's
| simple, focused, and fast.
| spideymans wrote:
| iPads and Chromebooks are rapidly taking over education. Both
| K-12 and in college.
|
| I think the pandemic really accelerated things. A lot more
| students are using iPads, rather than paper notebooks.
| roody15 wrote:
| Chromebooks won this battle.. handily.
| larrywright wrote:
| My perception is that this is largely based on price. Not
| necessarily because it's better.
| jahewson wrote:
| I would not say that "people aren't great at using full
| fledged operating systems" but that fully fledged operating
| systems aren't great at accommodating _people_.
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| I think it goes both ways, but I agree, we're mostly bad at
| making software work well for human beings.
|
| I do think people have individual limitations though, and
| eventually complexity becomes exceedingly difficult to hide
| being a well designed user interface. That's not their
| fault though, and I worry that we don't consider this often
| enough as we race towards higher technology. We're
| definitely leaving people behind.
| jahewson wrote:
| > refuse to add functionality to the OS and keep it overly
| crippled/restricted.
|
| Is this your opinion or was there any feedback from those 5
| users?
| bee_rider wrote:
| Programming on the iPad was OK, in the sense that Blink Shell
| is a better ssh client than PuTTY, and I don't want to carry my
| desktop around with me. Eventually I switched back to a Linux
| 2-in-1 laptop -- it is nice to be able to run GUI applications
| locally, but it is nowhere near as good a tablet as an iPad
| despite whatever tweaking I try...
| cute_boi wrote:
| actually many people don't use putty and recommending putty
| in 2022 is not that good. Windows terminal etc can easily do
| ssh without any hassles.
| wilg wrote:
| I don't even understand the advantage of an iPad for non-
| drawing work. It's just a worse laptop with a too-small
| keyboard that can fall off and a square screen so it's not good
| to watch video on and an OS that doesn't do anything well. But
| Mac laptops are amazing, run all the same software, and don't
| have any of these problems.
| alistairSH wrote:
| I have an iPad Pro M1 11" with the Magic Keyboard.
|
| It doesn't fall off or detach unexpectedly at all. And the
| keyboard size is close enough to "normal" that I don't notice
| for normal typing. The only thing I miss is a dedicated ESC
| key.
|
| All that said, it only replaced my personal laptop. I
| continue to use a 13" MBP at work.
| 1123581321 wrote:
| You can map caps lock to esc on the Magic Keyboard.
| wilg wrote:
| But why do you prefer this over a laptop?
| alistairSH wrote:
| For personal use... I like the size, it's a bit more
| portable than a 13" laptop (0.5lb lighter with Magic
| Keyboard, 2.7lb lighter on its own), smaller footprint).
| It does everything I need (surfing, streaming, email,
| FaceTime).
|
| Would I be happy with a 13" MBA as my personal device?
| Sure. I basically flipped a coin - the iPad won because
| shiny new thing.
|
| For work, inability to run Docker/VMs and install VSCode
| is a deal breaker.
| themagician wrote:
| I can't adapt to the workflow on an iPad either, and I have
| tried. I have _really_ tried. However, I have seen other that
| have. To them the iPad is easy and macOS is overly
| complicated.
|
| I am not sure if general computing is changing or there are
| now two branches, but I have watched other people do things
| on iPads that I consider impossible. Even simple things, like
| working in Excel, I find challenging on an iPad. But when I
| watch someone else who sort of "grew up" on iOS work in Excel
| on an iPad they are like some kind of wizard. I have found
| myself more than once now asking someone, "How did you do
| that?" feelsbadman.jpg
|
| I think a lot comes down to muscle memory and shortcuts.
| While I know many/most of the shortcuts on iPadOS they are
| not automatic for me the way they are on macOS. I often have
| to think, "Wait... how do I do this on the iPad again," for
| even simple things. I even find drawing applications
| unintuitive. In the Adobe suite everything is explicit. In
| Procreate everything is unlabeled. This is even true in
| consumer applications, like Facebook vs Snapchat. Pinch here,
| tap there. Swipe from one of the four sides to reveal some
| function that is completely hidden. But for some people this
| is intuitive. There is an additional layer (or two) of UI
| abstraction in iOS/iPadOS that I have not internalized.
|
| There definitely ARE some things you can't do on an iPad, but
| that list is actually shorter than you might think. There are
| a lot of things that you can do, they are just done
| differently... and in a way that, at least for me, seems to
| take a lot more work. But for others they are like, "Eww, why
| do I have to look for an icon and move the cursor over to it
| when I can just..." and then they proceed to input what is
| essentially sign language into the screen while holding down
| a modifier key.
| thih9 wrote:
| Work is not always about content creation, some people work
| mostly by consuming content (reading websites, browsing
| photos, selecting movie clips, navigating PDFs, or something
| else) and iPad is great for consuming content.
| tshaddox wrote:
| I can't speak to how Apple attempts to make deals with schools
| and workplaces, but their normal consumer marketing seems to
| pretty clearly highlight the differences between a MacBook and
| an iPad. If anything they seem to go out of their way to
| maintain significant differences in the two operating systems
| (which, ironically, is also a very popular complaint in tech
| circles).
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| Makes a lot more sense if you consider the idea that "pro" has
| become a luxury designation rather than the audience they're
| marketing towards.
| Terretta wrote:
| On the contrary, I have owned MacBook Pros from the first to
| the last 17", then again every model since the 16". I also have
| iPad Pro with magic keyboard and touch pad. I don't travel with
| the MacBook any more, as I can do anything from the iPad. But
| it's not just me.
|
| I've also been CTO at mega bank and hedge funds where we've
| rolled these out along side laptops. I've found that after
| initial objections, folks tend to agree. After a month or two,
| white collars who are not devs generally have switched to
| carrying the iPads, not laptops. Then the support costs
| basically go to zero, which matters a good deal at scale.
|
| Users do have to think differently. That's ROUGH. Employees
| will ask for their old thing back if it changes their workflow,
| period. (See the book "Who Moved My Cheese?")
|
| If they just use it, they generally find out it's fine. Could
| even be argued the Office / Teams ecosystem is superior.
|
| Bonus: Letting employees have TWO screens (MacBook + iPad) also
| gives them two retina class monitors, portable, fantastic for
| hoteling or remote work or work from home. Two screens are
| better than one, and two that go with you are amazing. The new
| keyboard/cursor sharing while each device runs its own apps,
| with copy paste and drag drop between them is even cooler. In
| this model, the iPad Pro can become a Teams or Slack device,
| for instance, while other work stays on Mac, so you just wander
| off to a meeting with your collaboration tools intact. Instead
| of picking up where you left off, you just pick up and go.
| scoopertrooper wrote:
| Thing that really kills iPad for me is the web browsing
| experience. I just find iOS Safari so limiting.
|
| It's also needlessly slow (considering M1). I suspect they
| have some optimisations designed for memory constrained
| devices like iPhone tuned in the same way for iPad.
|
| Also ad blocker support is limited.
|
| Oh and in a lot of video calling apps, if I try and browse
| something in Safari while the meeting is happening, then I'll
| suddenly stop sending video. Though that isn't strictly a
| Safari issue, more a Apple holding back features from third-
| party developer issue.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| I prefer Safari on iOS and macOS because it is so limiting
| that I assume it is helping conserve battery. With Wipr
| content blocker, I never see ads and it is generally pretty
| fast.
| Terretta wrote:
| > _Also ad blocker support is limited._
|
| Try 1Blocker or AdGuard Pro. And similar limits (for
| similar "this shouldn't run that there" reasons) just
| arrived for the Chromium family.
|
| > _needlessly slow_
|
| I tend to find that when I notice slowness, I have several
| hundred tabs open, approaching the 500 tab limit. Save all
| tabs to bookmarks, close all tabs, and I find it's as
| "snappy" as the new iOS meme. (Related? New device, no
| tabs? Hmmm...)
|
| Super annoying this hasn't been resolved since introduction
| of cloud synced tabs.
| anhner wrote:
| > And similar limits (for similar "this shouldn't run
| that there" reasons) just arrived for the Chromium
| family.
|
| If only there were another browser other than Safari and
| Chromium that didn't have those limitations...
| alistairSH wrote:
| AdGuard Pro seems to block ads well on iOS/iPadOS. I
| haven't noticed the browsing experience to be any slower on
| my iPad Pro M1 than on my 13" Intel MBP.
| THENATHE wrote:
| Orion let's you run full chrome and Firefox addons in iOS
| and iPadOS. No joke
| johnfernow wrote:
| That's incredible, thanks for sharing! Looks like it's
| still working on supporting some APIs (claims to
| currently support about 70% of Web Extensions APIs), and
| so far both the Firefox and Chrome NoScript extension
| don't appear to work for me on iOS, but that's awesome
| that they're working on adding support for Chrome and
| Firefox addons. I'll definitely keep an eye on this
| project.
| THENATHE wrote:
| Currently the ublock origin and dark reader I have tried
| with the Firefox extensions work very well, but I haven't
| tried any others so it is good to know.
|
| As it stands right now, there is essentially no windows
| support or support for the various browser sync plugins,
| but both of those are on the way. The main developer
| seems like a nice dude, and I've had a chat with him on
| Reddit a couple times so it is definitely a VERY active
| project.
| lbotos wrote:
| If you want to be my hero, can you try to install this
| extension on Orion on iPad
|
| https://github.com/WaldiPL/playbackSpeed
|
| https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/playback-
| spee...
|
| And let me know if it works on say a youtube video with
| speeds above 3x?
| THENATHE wrote:
| I don't actually have an iPad, only iPhone. But if you
| give me a couple of hours I will do so and reply to your
| comment with my results
| nomel wrote:
| > then I'll suddenly stop sending video
|
| Does this happen to be with low power mode enabled?
| hartator wrote:
| > Two screens are better than one
|
| Seems annoying actually.
| alexwasserman wrote:
| Ran a similar play recently and found a similar result.
|
| Can't understate how much people want the nice/fancy/pro
| device too. It's hard to lure people off MBPs to generic PC
| laptops or chromebooks but an iPad Pro + magic keyboard is
| shiny enough.
|
| Not just lower support cost, but much higher security bar at
| a lower cost too. Having been at the same fund, and other big
| banks, that's an important consideration. Strong MDM, yubikey
| support if you want it, decent app sandboxing, etc. gives a
| lot of security control in a nicer manner than on a desktop
| OS.
|
| Finally, I think the Office/GSuite issue depends so much on
| usecase and who's using which bits of each suite. Gmail is so
| much nicer than Outlook, but GDrive horrible organizationally
| compared to OneDrive, while GDocs collab beats O365, etc.
| danielmarkbruce wrote:
| >> Then the support costs basically go to zero, which matters
| a good deal at scale.
|
| Genuine question - what is the biggest time sink/cost for
| support on laptops? Put another way, exactly why do support
| costs drop so much with the ipads?
| Lio wrote:
| I remember a project in the early 00s at a place I was
| working. They were rolling out Windows tablets to
| installation engineers[1].
|
| The justification was to reduce breakages to the screen and
| hinge of laptops[2]. It sounds daft but apparently it was
| not uncommon for people to leave their van keys on the
| keyboard and then shut the lid on them.
|
| By switching to tablets they hoped to get rid of that
| failure mode.
|
| I imagine that's quite specific but just having less moving
| parts will increase reliability in a large organisation. A
| keyboard on a ThinkPad might be easy to change if it fails
| but a keyboard an iPad will be even easier as it's not
| attached permanently.
|
| 1. In this particular case that means people in hard hats
| and high viz going up telephone poles and into holes in the
| ground all day.
|
| 2. Standard issue at the time was Panasonic ToughBooks.
| agentdrtran wrote:
| I cannot imagine doing my job on on iPad, it's way too
| limited. can you open more than one google doc at a time yet?
| run desktop extensions on the web? open complex sheets/excel
| files? I have no idea what job other than sending emails and
| being on video calls all day could work on an ipad.
| dagmx wrote:
| Yes to all of those and they've been supported for years
| with the slight caveat that extensions are more limited and
| need to be provided by an app
| LegitShady wrote:
| also the caveat that excel/sheets is not good on ipad.
| [deleted]
| roody15 wrote:
| " I don't travel with the MacBook any more, as I can do
| anything from the iPad. But it's not just me."
|
| Interesting, how long have you been iPad Pro only? At the
| price point of the iPad pro with a keyboard and touch-pad..
| why not just buy a laptop like the MacBook Air?
|
| Hauling around an iPad pro with a touchpad.. and an external
| keyboard seems less convenient than just using something like
| the MacBook Air. Unless I am missing something here.
| terminalcommand wrote:
| I am a lawyer, my boss uses an ipad pro heavily for work.
| He usually does not have much time to work on stuff, we
| mail him the contracts, documents etc., he marks them up
| with digital pen with his comments and sends it to us to
| revise. He finds it extremely productive. He can give
| instructions on the go, even while physically walking to a
| meeting room.
|
| Prior to the ipad pro, we literally took printouts and
| handed it to the boss for his comments. He doesn't bother
| with word comments. Many older senior lawyers who learned
| the practice before word processors still work this way.
|
| For jobs not requiring much typing and special software,
| iPad pro can be a good addition.
|
| For replacing my work computer, oh no.
|
| If I were provisioned an ipad pro, I'd use it to read and
| markup contracts, look up legislation, occasionally jump
| into calls and I'd be pretty happy. I could work on my
| commute, quickly review documents and respond in off-hours
| etc. instead of carrying a laptop. The IT provisioned
| laptop takes ages to boot up, heavier and more fragile than
| an ipad.
|
| Another problem is that screen and keyboard doesn't quite
| replace pen and paper in my industry. I switched to Onenote
| from using a paper notebook during remote working and I
| miss taking notes on paper greatly. I frequently miss parts
| in contracts when I read on the screen and have to be extra
| careful. If I were in the office, I usually printed these
| out. I knew a senior lawyer who wanted us to print out
| every piece of related legislation so that she could work
| on it. She refused to read them on computer.
|
| iPad pro could be highly beneficial for low-tech human mind
| driven industries such as law.
|
| I know there is AI, I am grateful for redlines and spell
| checkers, but the computer screen and keyboard interface
| lacks in some ways.
| wlesieutre wrote:
| I'm in an architecture adjacent company and often deal
| with PDF drawing sets. When I get a 400 page PDF with
| E-size pages and I'm trying to look through a whole
| building to find or count something in it, I send those
| right over to the iPad.
|
| Now that I think about it, displaying gigantic PDFs is
| probably the most performance intensive thing I use it
| for, and the iPad Pro is _very_ fast at it.
| boppo1 wrote:
| What do you use for giant PDFs? I have some textbooks on
| mine, but nothing performs/functions as well as readera
| does on my android phone.
| wlesieutre wrote:
| I've found PDF Viewer from PSPDFKit GmbH to perform very
| well, though I also sometimes use Documents by Readdle
| which lets me do things like reorder pages without a
| subscription.
|
| Not sure if Documents is still that way for new users or
| only because I paid for it back before everything under
| the sun turned into a subscription.
| boppo1 wrote:
| Thanks!
| massysett wrote:
| Heh - I am a lawyer too. One of my old bosses didn't
| budge off paper even during covid. We had to email him
| PDFs of drafts so he could read them on his iPad and
| occasionally he would print them. If he had comments or
| revisions, he would print the draft, write his comments,
| and then use his iPhone as a makeshift scanner (no
| scanner app - he would just take pictures.)
|
| Once in a paper file I had the only example of A4 paper
| I've ever seen - I'm an American. He was traveling in
| Europe and we had to send the draft to his hotel so they
| could print it and give it to him. He wrote comments on
| it and brought it back.
|
| I'm not of his generation but I think I'd find an iPad
| pretty useless for work. I print most things I need to
| review so that I can read the closely and scrawl notes on
| them, though if I need to give the notes to someone else
| I put them into Word or on a PDF - but after printing it.
| I find it too cumbersome to review documents on the
| computer.
|
| The most I could use an iPad for is a second screen to
| look up statutes and cases and the like, or just to read
| emails - but it's too limiting even for emails. In
| Windows I drag emails to folders to save them, and I take
| notes with Notepad, go look stuff up in the browser, etc.
| The iPad is just too limiting.
| gnicholas wrote:
| Former lawyer here. iPads make much more sense for senior
| partners than for associates or junior partners. They're
| reviewing documents and writing emails, not composing
| long memos or doing intensive legal research on the web.
| The battery life and "boot time" differential are great
| for senior folks who don't need a desktop environment.
|
| I don't think this dichotomy maps onto technical roles,
| since there are more technical things you can't do on an
| iPad, but it's worth recognizing how much iPads can be a
| game-changer for some of the most senior people in
| organizations.
| Finnucane wrote:
| >Many older senior lawyers who learned the practice
| before word processors
|
| Considering how long ago that is, they must be pretty
| old. I mean, I'm 58 and I can just barely remember that
| time.
| gnicholas wrote:
| I talked to a lawyer in his 70s about this. He liked the
| way that dictating forced him to consider his thoughts in
| advance and speak in paragraphs. Technology has made
| dictation/typing pools unnecessary, but it's worth
| considering the ways that it might have led to benefits
| that we currently miss out on.
| [deleted]
| lancesells wrote:
| I've kind of found this with certain reporting that I
| used to automate. I used to be of mind that everything
| that can be automated should be automated. I've come to
| realize it's a big mistake as it limits my processing of
| information. Even cutting and pasting can have me
| thinking about something more than automating.
| terminalcommand wrote:
| They are not young :). I live outside of US so technology
| might have come a bit later to us. And law is an industry
| that does not like change that much.
| jxdxbx wrote:
| I'm a lawyer and I also only travel with, and can do a lot
| (but not all) of my work on an iPad. I probably spend more
| on my iPad Pro + keyboard than I would for a laptop. But
| the iPad is also my primary e-reader, I watch movies on it,
| I take note on it legal pad style, etc. Google apps all
| suck on iOS so I don't use them. I occasionally remote in
| to a desktop for this or that, but less frequently.
|
| I mostly find that nerds who don't like iPads have opinions
| that are like 5 years out of date. Trackpad support is
| great on iPads. The Files app is all I need on a portable
| device for file management. I can use any USB device I ever
| want (though in practice, I never do).
| derefr wrote:
| For travelling specifically:
|
| * The Magic Keyboard acts as its own case for the iPad Pro.
| I wouldn't keep a bare laptop in my bag, but I _would_
| throw the iPad-Pro-in-keyboard-case in there.
|
| * The iPad (any iPad) is better for reading books, watching
| movies, and all the other stuff you do more of on
| planes/trains/automobiles, than a laptop is. The Keyboard
| Case holds the iPad up in the air by about two inches
| (getting the screen closer to your eyeline without
| straining your neck), and then lets you further position
| the screen at strange angles (e.g. "inward") for better
| viewing -- angles you _can 't_ really adjust a laptop to.
| And if you want to read a PDF, a graphic novel, or anything
| else designed to be viewed vertically, you can, at full
| size -- just pick it up and turn it. (Maybe pull the case
| off to make it lighter, if you're going to be reading for
| hours.) Basically, the same logic behind bringing a
| purpose-designed e-reader device.
|
| * If you have a Pencil to go with it, it can also be a
| reusable piece of paper with infinite "template" content
| pre-loaded -- since you can arbitrarily mark up any PDF or
| image in the Files app, you can just load on a PDF of
| coloring-book pages, and now it's a coloring book; or grab
| a PDF of crossword puzzles, and now it's a crossword
| puzzle. No purpose-made apps required for either. (If you
| draw as a hobby, it can be your sketchbook, too; sadly, I'm
| no artist.) In other words, bringing an iPad also replaces
| packing those dimestore "activity books", and/or a notebook
| + actual pencil.
|
| * iPads (or really any convertable / 2-in-1, where you can
| fold away the angled keyboard part of the computer) are
| great for showing people the stuff you do / giving people
| demos -- which is something you might be doing a lot at
| conferences, if that's why you travel. This is a pretty
| unique use-case; tablets themselves are really "the thing"
| for this. They maybe replaced... handing out brochures?
| Having a glossy explainer book printed, and then packing
| that? Bringing a portable projector + slides?
|
| * Kind of like the recent revival of "intentional
| dumbphones" that encourage "unplugging", the iPad is
| designed in a way that still _allows_ for productive work,
| but makes it less fluid. I _can_ SSH into prod from an
| iPad, but I don 't want to do it for a minute longer than I
| have to. If you're travelling _on vacation_ , this could
| keep you focused on relaxing, in a way you might not be if
| you have a laptop along, tempting you to spend eight hours
| ignoring your wife and kids to squeeze out that new feature
| that popped into your head.
|
| Notice that none of those are benefits of the iPad _Pro_
| specifically. I don 't think that, for at least my use
| case, there's really much I'd get from an "iPad Pro with
| Keyboard Case" over an "iPad Air with Keyboard Case." Mind
| you, I _have_ an iPad Pro... but I bought it because I had
| the money, and wanted the beautiful color-calibrated
| display; not because the Air wouldn 't have suited my use-
| case just fine. (Though, when I bought it -- 2019 -- they
| weren't yet selling the Keyboard Case for the Air.)
| Terretta wrote:
| > _At the price point of the iPad pro with a keyboard and
| touch-pad.. why not just buy a laptop like the MacBook
| Air?_
|
| 1. cellular + eSIM, missing from Air (WHY, Apple, why?)
|
| 2. detaches into perfect touchscreen tablet, Air doesn't
|
| 3. Apple Pencil (requires "Paperlike" for texture):
| https://paperlike.com
|
| 4. it's a great second screen in either extend desktop or
| keyboard/mouse mode
|
| > _Hauling around an iPad pro with a touchpad.. and an
| external keyboard_
|
| No, the keyboard is the case, you have no sense of carrying
| a second thing. In fact, it's a magnetic dock, you USB-C
| charge through a port in the hinge, iPad pops on and off
| mag-safe style.
| adastra22 wrote:
| Interesting, I hadn't heard of Paperlike. I'll have to
| give it a try.
| dbdoug wrote:
| Paperlike is pretty pricey. I bought a similar screen
| cover on Amazon Canada by Bellmond for CAD$20. Works
| great!
| j-krieger wrote:
| The fact that you can do all your work on an iPad as well as
| you could do it on a Laptop may say more about your work than
| the devices. I do not mean this in an insulting way, but
| perhaps your work is so disconnected from technology or the
| creative process that you could do it, no matter the device
| you're using?
| swah wrote:
| Are you talking about second screen as in Sidecar - or just
| to open the same app that you would use a Macbook for - eg
| Slack, email?
| JAlexoid wrote:
| The biggest drawback of iPad OS is lack of windows, to drag
| around.If you don't need to multitask - iPad is OK.
|
| I tried going all iPad and my husband opted for iPad Pro as
| personal computer - it is woefully underutilized.
|
| "And that's not just me"
| Terretta wrote:
| > _biggest drawback of iPad OS is lack of windows, to drag
| around_
|
| First thing productivity users do to a Win or Mac laptop is
| install a windows manager so they _don 't_ drag windows
| around.
|
| iPad Pro in its landscape dock provides split screen with
| adjustable ratio, as well as left and right floats, along
| with swipe between desktops, as well as push to view and
| pick a diff app. One app wide, one app narrow, tends to put
| the narrow app in iPhone UI, which is pretty ideal, better
| than desktop where windows refuse to get narrow.
|
| You can drive iPad with a magic touch pad beautifully. I
| suspect this workflow management is behind some of the
| gesture convergence in Ventura and iOS 16.
| Scharkenberg wrote:
| > First thing productivity users do to a Win or Mac
| laptop is install a windows manager so they _don 't_ drag
| windows around.
|
| Interesting point of view, but I must either live in a
| parallel universe or know no "productivity users"
| (whatever that is supposed to mean) then. Windows' window
| management features cut it for 99.9% of Windows users,
| and the rest use PowerToys Fancy Zones or something of
| that sort.
| asdff wrote:
| IMO productivity users are mostly lemmings. MacOS has
| plenty of good tooling built in to manage windows and
| desktop environments. A tiling window manager makes a lot
| of sense with cli based tools but for gui based tools imo
| becomes annoying fast. Especially when most websites
| these days will serve you a mobile website depending on
| the dimensions of your viewport.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _don 't travel with the MacBook any more, as I can do
| anything from the iPad_
|
| This is what everyone I know with both devices does. I still
| prefer my Mac, but I'm in the minority in the under-fifty
| crowd.
| thefz wrote:
| Maybe it's just me, but I can't think doing any meaningful
| work without access to the filesystem.
| cube2222 wrote:
| What do you mean with "filesystem" specifically, that isn't
| available on iPads?
|
| There's the Files app.
| bluescrn wrote:
| But very few apps built to work files/folders.
|
| Image files?.... they obviously want to be mixed in with
| your photos!
|
| Media files?.... you don't want those!, would you like to
| subscribe to Apple Music?
| scarface74 wrote:
| What apps don't work with the Files App that it would
| make sense for?
| bluescrn wrote:
| Well, transferring files between an iPhone and a Windows
| PC is still far more of a pain than it should be.
|
| Still can't just treat the phone as a drive and put files
| on there.
|
| (edit: or trivially share a folder on the LAN over wifi,
| without even needing the USB cable, if you're considering
| the iOS device a 'real computer')
| ja27 wrote:
| Seems pretty simple with iCloud for Windows.
| bluescrn wrote:
| So transferring a file between 2 local devices should
| require sending it to a cloud server and back?
| cube2222 wrote:
| To be fair, apple devices have airdrop for transferring
| files, which works much more seemlessly than any kind of
| network drives I've ever used (and I'm using one right
| now).
|
| The interface exposed is just not mounting a remote file
| system.
| scarface74 wrote:
| You can't connect a laptop to another laptop and treat it
| like a drive. Why expect anything different from a phone
| that's really a computer?
| bluescrn wrote:
| If it was a real computer with a 'real OS', I'd be able
| to easily set up network shares and transfer files over
| wifi, without even plugging a cable in.
| scarface74 wrote:
| Well _I_ can transfer files wirelessly via AirDrop to my
| Mac.
|
| You can do it with a third party app
|
| https://mobiletrans.wondershare.com/iphone-
| transfer/transfer...
| neoberg wrote:
| In the same way you can't treat a laptop as a drive and
| put files on there (transfer from another pc); because
| it's not a drive.
| cube2222 wrote:
| Any concrete examples?
|
| As far as image processing apps, I've been using
| procreate and affinity designer. Both use the file system
| and not the photos app.
|
| As far as audio processing, apple's own garage band app
| works natively with audio files and lets you slice and
| dice them.
| thefz wrote:
| Does it allow you to have access to the whole fileystem,
| unrestricted access?
| flavmartins wrote:
| I think the arguments is non-developers don't really need
| access to it.
|
| You aren't configuring anything or doing anything that
| needs access to the file system.
|
| You are simply interacting with documents and online
| systems/applications that you can do the same as on a
| laptop. Add the greater mobility and the iPad pro really
| is a better device for most people.
|
| However, as another commenter mentioned, these
| individuals who SHOULD really benefit from using an iPad
| primarily also are the group that struggle greatly with
| the changes to their overall workflow (see Who Moved My
| Cheese).
| asdff wrote:
| Thats kind of a poor argument that just self fulfils
| itself. If we mask things like the filesystem and the
| actual shell, then of course no one will really need to
| use it. If we unmask these things, maybe paradigms will
| shift and they will themselves use these things.
|
| IMO so few people know how to code because we have been
| abstracting it for years, not because its tough to do or
| anything like that. Plenty of things people do are just
| as challenging as coding. You just need exposure to
| coding is all, its easy to write bash or python. Anyone
| could do it in a week. Hard to get that exposure when a
| company decides it won't be possible for you, and its a
| slap in the face considering these features are there in
| the device but you have to jailbreak the damn thing and
| violate your warranty to get at them.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| >Hard to get that exposure when a company decides it
| won't be possible for you,
|
| The company decided it was not possible using a specific
| product. You decided to use a product where it was not
| possible.
| asdff wrote:
| If you are not the most technologically inclined person,
| its really the company's marketing that is choosing the
| product rather than you. Its true with any product you
| lack relevant knowledge in, marketing becomes the
| dominant factor of choice beyond tooling that you don't
| fully yet understand. I think what is especially
| frustrating in this case, is that these capabilities are
| already there built into the device, they are just not
| exposed unless you jailbreak the device.
| cube2222 wrote:
| My MacBook doesn't either, with system integrity
| protection, and I'm just fine with it.
| scarface74 wrote:
| What do you need with unrestricted access to the root
| file system?
| freeplay wrote:
| It allows access to a filesystem, just not the root
| filesystem.
|
| You can do all the basic copy/cut/paste ops and create
| whatever folder structure you want. Don't expect to edit
| system files though. People spend lots of time looking
| for vulnerabilities to achieve that.
| frosted-flakes wrote:
| The iOS file system is very frustrating. By default,
| applications can only access individual files in their
| own sandbox, and if you want to point an application to a
| folder of media, you can't--it's simply not possible, or
| if it is it's so burdensome that it's simply not
| practical. Least of all for images, which for some reason
| are not accessible from the Files application and have to
| be manually exported from the photo gallery app, and
| music, which is not accessible _at all_ : you need to
| clumsily use Apple's proprietary sync program on an
| _actual_ computer.
|
| In contrast, Android also doesn't let you access the root
| file system, but the user folder is _yours_ to do
| whatever the hell you want with, and if you want to give
| your audiobook or music app to your folder of mp3 files
| that you 've collected over the years, you can.
| ghaff wrote:
| I know people who are laptop power users who are fine
| traveling with just a tablet and an external keyboard. (They
| still use a laptop when they're not traveling.)
|
| Good for them but I've never been able to make it work for
| me. I'll just carry the extra weight. But, to your point,
| it's also true that, beyond getting an external keyboard,
| I've never really committed to making a tablet work for me as
| my only travel device (other than a phone).
| jiveturkey wrote:
| > Instead of picking up where you left off, you just pick up
| and go.
|
| Completely lost me. You don't logout, close all your windows,
| and so on, when you undock/unplug and go mobile. I never have
| a problem picking up and going with my laptop, then coming
| back to my desk right how I left it. And the 27" monitors
| (32" also common here) are far, far better for productivity
| and dev work than a 13" ipad HDR screen. iPad is a poor
| choice for a 2nd screen.
| pinot wrote:
| Anything in the gSuite is terrible on iPadOS. Excel is also
| fairly crippled. I can't see how it's usable at all.
|
| Even just for emailing, GMail at least is a terrible
| application on iPad. For examples, cannot format anything, or
| view one email while writing another (that isn't a reply).
|
| I primarily use mine for
|
| * Note taking
|
| * Browsing/showing PDFs in a construction engineering
| setting. Nothing is faster or as flexible.
|
| * Sketching for construction drawings
|
| But the lack of good tabular worksheet and emails beyond
| quick replies pushes me back to my laptop all the time.
| samatman wrote:
| Google seems bound and determined to make their user
| experience on Apple products as painful as possible,
| perhaps in the misguided belief that if we see how awful
| their products are, we'll want to switch to their native
| operating system.
|
| Main effect for me has been to drop them like a steaming
| deuce, but not everyone has the luxury.
| jandrese wrote:
| Excel is almost guaranteed to be a terrible fit for iPad.
| Data import/export has always been a weak point with the
| iOS and the many of the use cases for Excel are data
| crunching. If you are pulling out the keyboard and mouse
| regularly then a laptop seems less awkward.
| jmole wrote:
| I disagree, I think there are 4 good GSuite apps on iPadOS:
| GMail, Meet, Calendar, and Drive.
|
| With the magic floaty keyboard, even long emails feel fine
| on iPad.
|
| Unfortunately, Docs, Slides & Sheets are pretty terrible,
| and fall far short of the desktop experience. For those
| apps, a Chromebook would be a much better choice. If only
| they made Chromebooks with trackpads as good as Apple's
| laptops, or even as good as the magic floaty keyboard.
| lucisferre wrote:
| Meet is in my experience worse than Zoom and Teams, and
| with the latter that is saying something.
|
| Gmail and Calendar are great. Drive is also sub-par in
| experience when compared to Dropbox (probably Box as well
| though I've not used it)
|
| Oddly Sheets is the only one I like. It is good enough
| for most use cases and simpler and easier to use than
| Excel.
|
| I've never even considered using Docs or Slides.
| posguy wrote:
| Office 365 is hard for most organizations to switch from,
| since the overall package is a set of tools that are
| generally better than the Gsuite competition.
|
| Some MSPs I work with make good money just converting
| businesses from Gsuite to Office 365. I don't use either
| platform personally or at my work, but I understand why
| Microsoft is eating the SaaS email & baseline office
| tools market.
| pinot wrote:
| I wouldn't say gmail is good if the compose button floats
| on top of my inbox, a new message opens up in a modal and
| covers anything you're trying to read/refer to. No format
| buttons.
|
| Sheets is terrible. Cannot use the magic keyboard to
| shift your active cell (ie click a cell, type = and use
| arrow keys to find the cell you want to reference.. it
| just quits the cell).
| rodgerd wrote:
| > Anything in the gSuite is terrible on iPadOS.
|
| Yes, well, monopolies will generally try to sabotage
| competitors.
| hdlothia wrote:
| Is gsuite even ahead of office?
| zerkten wrote:
| Lots of people only look at data. A crippled mobile version
| that permit read access is good for an awful lot of people.
|
| Let's look at pharma. They have a ton of sales reps and
| relatively few people in tech roles supporting them.
| Similarly, they have folks in scientific roles that push
| all software to the limits with a few people supporting
| them. The use cases of the sales reps are very well catered
| for on iPad and reps make up a lot of the user population.
| They present products to customers (eDetailing), have some
| basic data entry (CRM), might browse a range of reporting,
| and do some email. Email is critical, but as a sales
| director, that's not where you want your reps spending
| time. A limited experience somewhat helps just reply or
| move on.
|
| I make no claims that this is sufficient for sales
| directors or scientific staff. It is however very well
| suited to some of these roles. It's also very reliable,
| cost effective, and easy to provision. It's unfortunate
| that laptops end up being so complicated in comparison for
| this audience.
| yamtaddle wrote:
| I gsuite good _anywhere_? It 's not good in the browser on
| desktop/laptop devices, certainly.
|
| I have noticed they cut tons of features from the iOS
| versions and keep you from using the site if they're
| installed (and maybe even if they're not? That's _got_ to
| be how I ended up with them installed, I wouldn 't have
| done it by choice), which is super annoying and makes no
| sense since I'm sure it's all the same webtech crap as the
| "real" sites, just wrapped so it's "native".
| posguy wrote:
| The Gmail app ate multiple gigs of ram and repeatedly
| crashed on my prior two Android phones. Disabling it and
| using an alternate mail client works much better.
| pinot wrote:
| My entire company (800+) runs on gsuite for better or
| worse. At least in browser on desktop its functional.
| rpastuszak wrote:
| >I gsuite good anywhere? It's not good in the browser on
| desktop/laptop devices, certainly.
|
| Re web-tech: All iPad/iOS browsers run a low-perf version
| of Safari under the hood. In my experience anything
| Google seems sluggish on Safari. Frankly, I think that a
| part of this is due to FUD (Safari is _not_ slow).
|
| I still use FF and Safari for 99% of my browsing, but
| certain sites just require me to use Chrome.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| I assume anything Google is extremely
| energy/processor/RAM intensive and only consider it as a
| last resort on battery powered devices.
| debaserab2 wrote:
| Why do the support costs go to zero? I would think iPads
| would bring their own set of problems/hazards that laptops
| may not have.
| lazide wrote:
| Unless you are a power user who manages to overload it so
| severely it becomes unusable (not hard to do, if you're a
| certain type of power user - unfortunately), it's basically
| just a big iphone you can attach a keyboard too.
|
| Much harder to actually break or make unusable than the
| typical 5-10 yr old windows laptop from the lowest bidder
| most people interact with.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| It's next to impossible to get an iPad to a non-working
| state.
|
| A creative user with a Windows laptop can do it easily
| unless it's really tightly locked and controlled.
| larrywright wrote:
| And sometimes Windows just does that on its own.
| Terretta wrote:
| Basically, they're an appliance, and hard for a user to
| screw up.
|
| Of course it's not actually zero.
|
| There's always someone whose finger can't poke things that
| will ask where the mouse is, or why this stupid iPad
| doesn't run Lotus 1,2,3 -- and you have to respect their
| challenges. Or of course (rare) hardware faults, and you
| have to provision a new one.
|
| But the appliance-ness of it makes it a support dream.
| tunesmith wrote:
| I thought with an iPad you simply can't manage it remotely.
| If you can, I want to know, because my father-in-law keeps
| screwing up his iPad and I can't fix it without shipping it
| back and forth.
| JStanton617 wrote:
| You need an MDM to manage it remotely. Something like
| Jamf Now is $2/device/month. Not sure how much the
| shipping costs, but might be break-even
| JimDabell wrote:
| Sure you can. Look into MDM services like Jamf Now.
| Baeocystin wrote:
| Splashtop will let you view an ipad's screen. It's fiddly
| to start (remote user has to allow access, enable
| broadcasting, etc every time, and this is a non-trivial
| step to get over), but it does work, in the sense that
| seeing the screen is faster than just guessing what is
| going on as your panicked user pokes randomly at things
| no matter what you say, leaving you with no context.
|
| It _is_ functional enough to be useful, _if_ the other
| person on the line is good at following instructions.
| stocknoob wrote:
| How much spyware have you seen gunking up the default
| experience on an iPad? Compare this to a typical consumer
| laptop.
| cm2187 wrote:
| I wonder who at mega bank and hedge fund isn't using excel...
|
| My experience at mega bank is that the IT department is often
| delusional about what business users actually do.
| alexwasserman wrote:
| There are plenty of depts with a good iPad use case,
| typically those with very standard workflows and few apps.
|
| Think about HR who just need Zoom/Meet/WebEx, Greenhouse
| (or whatever ATS), and email+calendars.
|
| Office admin, customer support, etc. all have simple needs
| that benefit from a really nice, but easily controlled and
| secured device.
|
| Also, don't underestimate how much "the Spotify app works"
| will entice people too.
|
| Yeah, you won't convert all the quants, engineers, etc but
| they aren't the target. That said, in my experience they
| love the iPad as a second screen that's very portable, in
| contrast to the high powered very unportable workstation.
|
| The biggest factor for iPad adoption is really: "is there
| an app". Particularly with SaaS tools there's often a
| decent which lends itself to iPad usage.
| bitL wrote:
| IMO companies should give their employees one e-ink screen
| instead to save their eyes. Most office-style work can be
| done well on those screens and they are much healthier. I now
| barely use paper as I use an A4 Onyx tablet with e-ink screen
| and do most of my notes there. It's so much better than using
| iPad for that.
| jasonlotito wrote:
| This isn't contrary. Quite the opposite. None of the cases
| you present are iPad only. They are iPad alongside laptops.
| They might find cases where the iPad is fine, but none are
| iPad only.
|
| And your "bonus" is basically an iPad Pro as a $1000+ chat
| device.
|
| Now, if you mean that they added an iPad Pro, and eventually
| stopped ever using their laptop, that's a different story,
| but that's not what you said in your comment.
| truncate wrote:
| I think for me a major bottleneck of using iPad as laptop is
| that the screen is still gonna be on heavier compared to
| keyboard, and the whole combo doesn't feel as solid and
| sturdy as a good laptop does. iPad feel more physically free
| in some ways (you can just use screen etc ...), and
| physically restrictive in others (doesn't feel like one big
| sturdy unit with keyboard).
|
| That all aside, as an engineer it's too restrictive and less
| fun. I'm sure it can get a lot of other non-programming
| workflows done quite well though.
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| People have been using MS Surface for years now. So top
| heaviness is generally not an issue that impacts
| productivity.
|
| The magic keyboard works great. You can even get BT knock
| offs for 1/3 the price. Works fine on your lap.
| truncate wrote:
| I'm not questioning the productivity but the feel of it,
| if you care about that. It always feels natural to me
| when weight distribution is heavier towards the keyboard.
|
| I can't speak for Surface Laptop, which I think had a
| bulky keyboard, but the the normal ones (I think was
| called Pro), always felt weird. Obviously this all is
| personal choice.
|
| I think the overall point is, iPad is nice replacement
| only if you are not going to be using keyboard much.
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| I was referring to the Surface Pro. Forgot that the
| laptop even existed. A better keyboard for the Pro would
| be welcome but not a deal breaker.
|
| The cantilever design iPad keyboards are indeed very
| heavy to counter the tablet weight. Which brings the
| total weight of an iPad with the keyboard to almost MB
| Air weights.
|
| The iPad is really crippled by software. Undoubtedly they
| cannibalise their own sales by allowing MacOS to run on
| iPads. But they have purposely killed off their own
| product categories before. Having that dual mode device
| is great.
| cush wrote:
| I don't think Apple is marketing it as heavily as you think at
| replacing Workplace laptops, but moreso consumer laptops. iPad
| is a delightfully simple device for consuming any kind of
| media, editing photos and videos, light to medium gaming, and
| doing little creative things.
| derefr wrote:
| > but refuse to add functionality to the OS and keep it overly
| crippled/restricted
|
| What would the point of "adding functionality to the OS" be? If
| they wanted to put macOS on iPads, they'd just put macOS on
| iPads.
|
| My understanding at Apple's strategy here is that they're
| simultaneously exploring two different GUI paradigms -- almost
| pitting them against one-another to see which wins (or, if you
| like, making a hedged bet):
|
| * macOS, for building "Unix pipeline-like" workflows where you
| point different programs-as-tools at the same document or take
| one program's output as another's input. Apple encourages macOS
| developers to make this kind of app.
|
| * iPadOS, for building "all-in-one silo" workflows (think:
| Photoshop, Garage Band, XCode), where the developer intends to
| solve fully for a use-case, such that people with that use-case
| can get by using _only_ their app. In these cases, rather than
| interacting with other apps, a siloed app will _embed_ whatever
| other accessory workflows a user might need, either directly
| (e.g. XCode embedding a terminal console) or through plugins
| (Photoshop plugins, Garage Band VST support.) The user might
| use other apps _at the same time_ as this app, but not in a way
| where the apps are sharing data or interacting in any way;
| rather merely using each app to "do what it does" -- e.g.
| referencing a design diagram in Miro while implementing that
| design in XCode, and writing down reminders in some reminders
| app. (Thus, the iPadOS 16's Stage Manager, which assumes you
| want several apps on screen at once, but doesn't implement
| drag-and-drop between apps or any other kind of useful inter-
| app interaction.)
|
| As a user, as long as each user-story you have has been
| _perfectly addressed_ by some particular siloed iPadOS app,
| then iPadOS should work for you. (And there are a lot of people
| whose user-stories _have_ all been perfectly addressed by these
| siloed iPadOS apps -- mostly, people with boring, predictable,
| _traditional_ workflows. Novelists; illustrators; business
| executives; _possibly_ salespeople.)
|
| However, if your workflow is niche or "constantly reinventing
| itself" enough that nobody's ever going to make a siloed app
| specifically for your needs, and so you expect to get things
| done by throwing files between various different tools all day
| -- then iPadOS is never going to work for you. You need a
| desktop OS designed around that kind of thing.
| Fiahil wrote:
| > As a user, as long as each user-story you have has been
| perfectly addressed by some particular siloed iPadOS app,
| then iPadOS should work for you.
|
| And then I tried sending a pdf by email. Oh well.
|
| Can I share it on the corporate FTP ? Oh no.
|
| Let me airdrop this to you... Wait... is this a windows /
| android device ?
|
| ...
|
| Alright, I'll just use my laptop. My iPad is too niche for
| this workflow.
| ehutch79 wrote:
| Do you actually have issues attaching a pdf to email on
| iOS?
|
| There are plenty of apps to upload stuff to FTP. If this
| was an actual thing you used with any regularity, you'd
| have something installed already if files isn't connecting
| for you.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Well, MacOS won. Silos don't work, and they _especially_ don
| 't work when Apple controls the means of distribution single-
| handedly. MacOS has clutched onto a shred of relevance by
| letting the user install package managers, download software
| from the web, run software compilers, and so much more. There
| is not a future where iPadOS "wins" and MacOS is slayed in
| ritual combat, or something. It's _obviously not_ a contest,
| and even by your own admission the separation of these OSes
| is mostly arbitrary. Apple knows they 're gimping the iPad,
| they're just expecting other people to not care.
|
| Everyone would be happy if Apple focused more on perfecting
| the iPad's hardware instead of pushing iPadOS to the brink.
| An iPad with options to run MacOS, iPadOS or Linux would be
| the knockout product-of-the-decade for Apple IMO. Judging by
| the design of Monterey, I think iPad/Mac convergence seems
| fairly likely.
| tcmart14 wrote:
| I don't think we would see full convergence. Apple does a
| decent job at having classes of devices. What I could see
| is, the top of the line iPad Pro converging with the
| Macbook Air. The regular iPad, minis, etc will probably
| stay with a relatively locked down iPadOS. You want an
| "entry level" Apple laptop, you get an iPad Pro. But if
| your work flow requires more, than you go with a Macbook
| Pro, iMac, or Studio.
| derefr wrote:
| > There is not a future where iPadOS "wins" and MacOS is
| slayed in ritual combat, or something.
|
| Well, no, it's not about the Operating Systems; it's about
| the UI paradigms themselves.
|
| I believe that Apple is worried that the desktop WIMP UI
| itself is going to be disrupted and fade into irrelevance
| due to 1. "do everything on the web" devices like
| Chromebooks, and 2. VR/AR productivity-workflow paradigms
| that are yet to be formalized; and so they're trying to
| find a successor to the WIMP UI, one that _will_ still be
| relevant in 2040, even if /when the WIMP UI dies.
|
| The distinction between iPads and Macs isn't arbitrary,
| insofar as iPads don't _require_ a keyboard, and Macs do.
| iPadOS (and iOS) apps have to be designed under the
| assumption that a keyboard is optional; and that _really_
| changes things about how an app can work. You can port apps
| designed for keyboardless tablets to macOS just fine (and
| as of the M1 you don 't even have to, you can just install
| them); but fully-featured macOS apps can't just be thrown
| onto a keyboardless touchscreen. (And you can't say "well,
| you can't install 'keyboard required' apps if you don't
| have the keyboard", either; the OS has no idea if the user
| owns a keyboard but just hasn't bothered docking it.)
|
| You _are_ accidentally correct in the other direction,
| though -- that there 's no reason you couldn't run iPadOS
| as well as macOS on a theoretical "touchscreen Mac" (which
| would be a different thing than an iPad, precisely
| _because_ the keyboard would be welded onto it, and so apps
| could guarantee its presence /require you to use it.) The
| reason that Macs don't have touchscreens, AFAICT, is
| because Apple wants to use the iPad -- along with everyone
| who buys one, and every developer who signs on to develop
| apps for one -- as an isolated laboratory to run this
| "successor to WIMP UI paradigm" experiment. They don't want
| to "dilute" that experiment by allowing those users and
| developers to get the _advantages_ of the iPad from any of
| their other products -- because then those users and
| developers wouldn 't be incentivized to use the iPad, and
| thereby to give them the experimental data they need.
|
| Consider: why didn't Facebook just merge Instagram and
| WhatsApp into features of Facebook Messenger? And why is it
| still considered a huge mistake that Twitter killed Vine
| after acquiring it? Because, like the iPad, these alternate
| experiences -- despite being owned by the same old bigcorp
| that serves you the traditional experience -- are both
| _innovation laboratories_ , the learnings of which can be
| folded back into the regular app; and also _hedged bets_
| against the market failure of the old-school experience.
| Vine could have been TikTok if it had been allowed to grow
| for a few more years. What could the iPad 's UI paradigm be
| if allowed to grow for a few more years?
| faeriechangling wrote:
| We're not moving to the web totally unless the web
| recreates there UI features we already get on desktop. I
| have to juggle a half dozen apps at a time no matter how
| much I automate.
|
| VR/AR makes people feel sick and are fundamentally
| uncomfortable in a way a screen not strapped to your face
| isn't.
| smoldesu wrote:
| > What could the iPad's UI paradigm be if allowed to grow
| for a few more years?
|
| Well, we asked ourselves that at the launch of the iPad.
| At the time it was basically a reading/web browsing
| tablet (in other words, revolutionary). But people had
| grander visions, like running DAWs on it and porting
| Photoshop and developing software. All of these things
| are not hardware-limited; their exclusion _entirely_
| boils down to arbitrary software decisions made by Apple.
|
| So, we waited. We let it grow for more than a decade.
| What we have today is just a bigger version of iOS, which
| is a reflection of Apple's refusal to upset a paradigm
| they directly profit off of. They're genuinely incapable
| of disrupting the computing market, because _they 're_
| the ones abusing the market the hardest.
|
| My only hope is that legislation steps in to stop all
| this bullshit. Your customers shouldn't be treated like
| guinea pigs, and they should have the authority to
| install whatever they want on the hardware they own. If
| Apple can't design a product that respects those two
| simple principles, then they're going to have a hard time
| courting modern-day pros that use Macbooks and Wintel
| machines.
| squeaky-clean wrote:
| Is everything they do web-based? Or did they just not know that
| it won't run any desktop software and that even if there is an
| app-store version it's usually cut down to half the features of
| the desktop version?
| bradgessler wrote:
| I used the iPad Pro for about 2 years for nothing but
| productivity apps and it was overall pretty great.
|
| It wasn't without issue though, here's what I ran into:
|
| 1. I didn't run any dev tools on the iPad. That's insane. I
| used a laptop running macOS for that.
|
| 2. Google Docs updates would always ship with weird bugs, like
| if I'm editing a cell in a Google Sheet and hit space, the
| space wouldn't insert.
|
| 3. There's loads of issues with drag and drop in most apps.
| Dragging and dropping a picture from Photos into a document is
| the most common flow which works in some apps, but not in
| others.
|
| The plus sides:
|
| 1. The built-in cellular connection is amazing. I wish MacBook
| Airs would ship with built-in cellular.
|
| 2. The Apple Pencil (2nd gen) is great if you design software
| or UX.
| jiveturkey wrote:
| > 1. The built-in cellular connection is amazing. I wish
| MacBook Airs would ship with built-in cellular.
|
| don't you always have your phone on you? i don't have any
| issue at all tethering.
| alistairSH wrote:
| _Google Docs updates would always ship with weird bugs_
|
| Is that really an Apple problem? Sounds like Google is just
| lazy with QA on Apple devices.
|
| Did you try Numbers or Excel and have similar problems?
| cute_boi wrote:
| Or Safari is not a good browser.
| alistairSH wrote:
| I've been using Safari almost exclusively for 2 years
| with no problems. I did prefer Chrome for web page
| development, but I'm not doing that right now.
| yreg wrote:
| These are native apps.
| jbellis wrote:
| If they would just allow UTM to run, that would be good enough
| for me.
|
| https://getutm.app/
| selimnairb wrote:
| This! They even enabled swap on iPadOS 16. Why oh why can't I
| run a VM?
| [deleted]
| chernofool wrote:
| Too bad that Apple works so hard to strangle 3rd-party software
| in the cradle.
|
| A device like this would be fantastic with a full desktop
| environment. Many desktop apps have solid touchscreen support
| now, ChromeOS has demonstrated that mobile apps can be run
| seamlessly in a desktop window manager, and you could easily dock
| it to use with bluetooth mouse/keyboard.
|
| Alas, we've got to put up with a hi-res smartphone OS because
| that is Apple's vision for this product line.
| [deleted]
| adrusi wrote:
| With iPhone video hardware, ProRes support, and a thunderbolt
| interface that makes 4k ProRes actually practical to get off the
| device, the iPad Pro is now likely to be the best video recording
| device for certain creative niches. You can even edit the video
| on the same device that captured it in a pinch.
| reustle wrote:
| Has there been any recent discussions as to why Apple still
| hasn't introduced cellular connectivity on their laptops? Is it
| yet another attempt to get people to convert over to the walled
| garden of iOS? With every ipadOS iteration, they push it to be
| closer and closer to a desktop experience (windows, monitor
| support, keyboard trackpad cover, etc).
| jshier wrote:
| As sibling alluded to, they don't want to pay the per device
| royalty percentage, especially on high price devices like a
| MacBook Pro.
| etchalon wrote:
| I'd wager it's a Qualcomm negotiation thing.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Modern WWAN might be a bit of a nightmare. I'm not super
| familiar with recent efforts in the space, but if Apple wanted
| to knock this out of the park, they'd need two things:
|
| - Unlimited data plans, preferably at a non-insane price (sub
| $50-month would be nice)
|
| - _Both_ 4G LTE and 5G connectivity. Not just one or the other.
|
| Both of these seem technically possible, but I'd assume they'd
| be incredibly difficult to pull-off from a business negotiation
| perspective.
| ripdog wrote:
| Why does Apple need to provide the plan as well? I mean,
| given Apple's controlling nature, they may well wish to - but
| most laptops with mobile internet simply provide a SIM slot
| hooked up to a standard mobile baseband. Customers find their
| own plan, and many carriers offer plans which are tablet-
| oriented, with no calls/texts and sharing the data from a
| 'master' mobile plan.
| reustle wrote:
| Not sure how this is much different from an iPad Pro,
| either.
| fmajid wrote:
| It has IEEE 802.11ax WiFi6E, first Apple device with it,
| apparently. Even the M2 MacBook Air and the Mac Studio don't have
| it.
|
| Edit: only dual-band. no 6GHz? WTF, Apple? Definitely skipping
| this generation, then.
| intrasight wrote:
| Imaging what a great product we would have if Apple ditched the
| Mac and put all that hardware and software effort towards a
| unified touchscreen convertible tablet.
| foxandmouse wrote:
| The high refresh rate being limited to pro models seems like
| apple deliberately holding back a feature from it's lesser
| expensive models to avoid it competing with its more expensive
| models.
| etchalon wrote:
| Or it could be about profit margins.
| atty wrote:
| They keep on pushing on the power of the iPads. Out of curiosity,
| does anyone really use their iPads for something they'd consider
| really compute intensive? I find that the best use of a tablet is
| reading and watching videos. Any time I want to do anything
| complex or computationally intensive I find a laptop to be much
| more efficient, both in terms of the OS flexibility and better
| input devices.
| lbotos wrote:
| I don't particularly, but I like to watch videos at 3 and 4x
| and bigger procs have helped. Older iPads stumbled past 2x.
|
| But, It does make me salty that an M2 iPad can't run Xcode. I
| wish they would figure that out as it would greatly streamline
| my setup.
| yamtaddle wrote:
| Give me XCode and Preview (I use the pdf page-re-
| arranging/deleting/etc a lot) and finally put a fucking
| calculator on iPad OS and I can stop using macbooks at all. I
| mean for personal devices, at least, I'd still use one for
| work since they give me one anyway.
| blorgensnarf wrote:
| Civ VI is pretty CPU intensive.
| rodgerd wrote:
| > Out of curiosity, does anyone really use their iPads for
| something they'd consider really compute intensive?
|
| Divinity: Original Sin 2 8)
| null_object wrote:
| > I find that the best use of a tablet is reading and watching
| videos.
|
| I think HN forgets the 'pros' using the iPad Pros are video,
| photography, visual-arts and music professionals.
|
| I'm as disappointed as the next dev on HN that iPadOS still
| doesn't allow me to run a full version of Xcode. But then I
| remember there are perfectly good laptops for that, and I'm not
| the target audience for these devices
| [deleted]
| AuryGlenz wrote:
| I mean, I don't understand how I could really use an iPad in
| my workflow as a photographer. Everything is slower without a
| keyboard, and for raw editing I use a whole bunch of knobs.
|
| I could see maybe using it at the right type of session to
| quickly review images on a larger screen, but the last time I
| looked into it there wasn't a super great way of doing that.
| Maybe I could cull photos on my iPad but unless I transfer
| for the photos to it and then back off I'd need to work over
| my network and that'd probably be slow...
|
| Everything relating to moving files, SD cards, etc. is just a
| hassle in Apple tablet/phone world. Ironically, a PC just
| works.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Same goes for music production. I've tried using a few iPad
| DAWs over the years, but it's _so much slower_ than using a
| keyboard and mouse, or just popping open your Macbook with
| Live. Apple already has a product segment that does fairly
| well with this market, trying to force the iPad into being
| something it 's not just looks silly.
| KuiN wrote:
| I see a lot of people using an iPad for music alongside a
| proper computer with a full featured DAW. You don't need
| a mouse or keyboard shortcuts for idea generation,
| sketching out rough concepts from inspiration on the go
| or playing with some of the pretty unique synths & other
| tools available on iPad. For modular synth simulation
| I've found iPad with Pencil to be a much much better UI
| for me than using a mouse.
| psychomugs wrote:
| Producing may be faster on desktop for now because
| they've had a large head start on optimizing the
| interfaces for mouse and keyboard, but those affordances
| are still a subset of what you can do with a touch
| screen. Touch screens won't replace dedicated controllers
| with physical knobs, but digital knobs are surprisingly
| usable.
| smoldesu wrote:
| > but those affordances are still a subset of what you
| can do with a touch screen.
|
| I disagree. A gesture-based workflow won't replace Pro
| Tools' keyboard shortcuts, unfortunately.
| psychomugs wrote:
| Similar things were probably said about smartphones with
| touch screens being inferior to physical buttons.
|
| After using my tablet as a second screen for production,
| photo editing, CADing, and coding, it's become woefully
| apparent that the mouse - a tiny singular cursor - is an
| inferior grandfather to an interface that _also_ supports
| multitouch, and the only thing holding tablets back is
| software. Obsidian is a good example of a mobile app that
| has parity with its desktop version in both maintaining
| its keyboard shortcuts but also enabling touch
| interactions closer to the affordances of physical notes.
|
| Let's check in again in a few device generations.
| musictubes wrote:
| Touch is far better for performance though. Watching
| Suzanne Ciani seamlessly integrate her Buchla modular rig
| with the ipad makes me appreciate just how good the ipad
| is. A regular computer would be far more cumbersome to
| use with hardware synths in the moment.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Not really? The iPad isn't velocity-sensitive, and it
| doesn't have aftertouch or any tactile feedback. A
| "regular computer" at least has straightforward MIDI
| routing that you can perform with - the iPad gets
| outclassed by decade-old Octatracks in terms of
| performance flexibility.
| psychomugs wrote:
| Ciani is the perfect example that I was about to bring up
| myself. I got to see her perform live at a conference,
| and out of her whole setup, she waxed poetic most about
| her iPad.
| musictubes wrote:
| Think live performance instead of DAW work. Using a
| sequencer, effects, or additional soft synths on the ipad
| along with hardware synths is much nicer than fiddling
| with a mouse or trackpad.
| smoldesu wrote:
| "Much nicer" is a bit of a stretch (I use a touchscreen
| laptop with my DAW). The difference between clicking-and-
| dragging a knob is not that different from tapping-and-
| dragging one. Same goes for performance; the iPad is not
| velocity sensitive, and it does not have aftertouch. At
| that point, you're probably adding in a MIDI keyboard or
| other hardware, at which point you may as well just
| perform with a real DAW and leave the iPad at home.
| psychomugs wrote:
| Dodging and burning and masking and using other photo-
| related tools with a mouse and keyboard feels like I'm
| producing a very calculated photograph. Using a stylus and
| multi-touch screen feels closer to the original affordances
| of crafting and manipulating a physical photograph. For the
| best of both worlds, I use the iPad in Sidecar / second-
| screen mode so I can use keyboard shortcuts with 1:1 stylus
| input.
| singhrac wrote:
| I would play games on my iPad... but there aren't very many
| that work, because Apple hasn't spent the time (or money)
| making Metal support widespread. Really, they should just fund
| / build their own MoltenVK implementation, but I would guess
| that they don't want to support two paths. It's surprising how
| MoltenVK only has one full time dev, I could easily see Apple
| throwing some money at that with huge returns.
| boppo1 wrote:
| Digital sculpting.
| monitron wrote:
| Right now I'm drawing comics using CLIP Studio Paint, which
| really is a desktop app that runs seamlessly on the iPad
| (literally it appears to be the same code as what I have on my
| Mac!)
|
| Each page is ~5000x7000px with dozens of layers including many
| effects and even 3D models. Even my 2018 iPad Pro breezes
| through this workflow. With the pencil, it feels like exactly
| the right device for what I'm doing.
| pradn wrote:
| Web browsing is a task you can throw great single-core
| performance at.
| jwr wrote:
| Heck yeah. "Reading" sounds boring and easy, except when you
| have to quickly skim through 600-page PDFs with illustrations,
| and switch between those. This is a common use case for anybody
| designing electronics. I will take every CPU cycle I can get.
|
| The existing iPads were already the best devices for this kind
| of thing, but faster is always better.
|
| I still find it sad that:
|
| a) Apple restricts iPad OS so much, that it's difficult to make
| good use of that fantastic hardware. It feels weird that people
| ask questions like "what can I actually use that power for?"
|
| b) Companies do not ship better iPad apps. At this point,
| Fusion 360 would work better on this M2 iPad than on most PC
| machines, but we only get a half-baked "viewer" thing which
| doesn't really do anything useful.
| educaysean wrote:
| This made me wonder: Why do PDFs feel so much slower and
| bulkier compared to something like viewing HTML over a
| browser? When it comes to displaying static images and text,
| shouldn't PDFs outperform HTML pages by miles?
| kaba0 wrote:
| I don't think it's true in general, you may just used bad
| PDF viewers. I can scroll through a content-rich PDF much
| faster and smoother, than a similarly resource-packed
| website.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Yep. You can actually use WebKit to render PDFs in Linux
| and it works perfectly fine as well. Performance problems
| seem to be most prevalent when you browse them in a web
| browser.
| yamtaddle wrote:
| > a) Apple restricts iPad OS so much, that it's difficult to
| make good use of that fantastic hardware. It feels weird that
| people ask questions like "what can I actually use that power
| for?"
|
| Really, I can't think of a _ton_ of uses for desktop /laptop
| hardware this powerful. And I don't do any of them, gaming
| aside (I have a mediocre Windows PC for that, and even _that_
| is often using only a fraction of its power for gaming).
|
| The one and only time I've given my m1 Air a real workout is
| playing with one of those AI art generators, but it's not
| like that was something I needed to do, or I'd have felt like
| I was really missing out if I hadn't done it. I did it
| because I could and it was low-effort.
|
| Faster compiling is nice I guess. That's... it.
| jwr wrote:
| > Really, I can't think of a ton of uses for desktop/laptop
| hardware this powerful.
|
| Oh, there are plenty -- for one, I would _really_ like to
| have a good CAD /CAM application. Parametric, history-
| based, like Fusion 360 or SolidWorks. There is Shapr3D
| which is absolutely amazing and shows what the hardware is
| capable of (take a look at the demo videos), but nothing I
| can use for actual work.
|
| These kinds of apps need both a reasonable GPU for
| rendering and a _really_ good CPU for computing constraints
| in sketches, and then for recomputing solids.
|
| Unfortunately, Fusion 360 being an Autodesk product, we
| aren't even graced with an Apple Silicon version on the Mac
| yet, even though it's been what, two years since Apple
| Silicon is out? The application is a slow pig, where
| usability comes last. So I guess I can keep on dreaming.
|
| Or take electronics CAD -- having KiCAD on an iPad would be
| amazing.
| yamtaddle wrote:
| Yeah, not a ton, I didn't write _none_. 3D modeling, cad,
| running scientific models. Gaming. Hi-res video editing
| workflows. Machine learning. I guess "crypto" junk. And
| some of that (machine learning, crypto, probably most
| compute-intensive scientific models) aren't something you
| probably want to do on a tablet or laptop except in a
| pinch, anyway, because a purpose-built server's much
| better-suited to it and you probably don't need
| continuous and detailed visual feedback.
|
| But I don't think it's weird that people struggle to come
| up with ways to really use super-powerful hardware,
| because most folks don't do (and don't _want to do_ )
| much of the above except _maybe_ gaming, and most people
| who do game don 't do it--or at least not in a way that's
| taxing on the hardware--on _all_ the kinds of devices
| they own.
|
| The cool stuff lots and lots of people actually use tends
| to end up in dedicated hardware or paths, like video
| codecs and image processing and face recognition and all
| that, not mainly processed by the general CPU or graphics
| power of their platforms.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Most folks don't do complicated video editing or music
| production, that doesn't stop Apple from optimizing their
| hardware around that, too. The problem isn't a lack of
| demand, but rather the _inverse_ - there 's so much
| demand for new software, that Apple can make tens-of-
| billions of dollars just off the app distribution
| platform alone.
|
| The crux of all this is having the _option_ to run the
| software you want on the _hardware you own_. No, I don 't
| do 3D modelling, CAD, scientific simulation or gaming on
| a daily basis. But I do use that software _sometimes_ ,
| and a device that excludes the possibility of running any
| of them doesn't sound fun or "limitless" to me. It all
| leads to the feeling that the iPad is a Disney-fied
| version of a professional workflow.
| cassianoleal wrote:
| There is Onshape for parametric mechanical CAD.
| darthrupert wrote:
| >Apple restricts iPad OS so much, that it's difficult to make
| good use of that fantastic hardware. It feels weird that
| people ask questions like "what can I actually use that power
| for?"
|
| Doesn't faster CPU tend to imply potentially better battery
| life?
| diebeforei485 wrote:
| In general, not necessarily.
|
| But in this case the M2 has efficiency improvements, so
| yes.
| bparsons wrote:
| For 99.99% of users, they are 1500 dollar Facebook machines.
| m3kw9 wrote:
| You are projecting a bit there
| NoraCodes wrote:
| I doubt that. Many very serious artists use Procreate on an
| iPad as their primary medium, and I honestly can't think of a
| better tool without jumping about a thousand dollars in
| price, loath as I am to say it.
| [deleted]
| nickthegreek wrote:
| agreed. I dont know any tattoo artist without one.
| davidgay wrote:
| Adobe Lightroom works quite nicely, I use it to edit photos I
| take on vacation while on vacation.
| gnicholas wrote:
| Interestingly the Apple Pencil "hover" feature doesn't require a
| new generation of Pencil -- this works on the 2nd Gen.
|
| Overall, this looks like it is clearly aimed at creators. I have
| the 2018 Pro with Magic Keyboard and have zero interest in
| upgrading to this model. Honestly I almost wish I could trade my
| Pro for a Mini, since it's more pocket-able, and I mainly use my
| Pro for demoing my startup's technology.
| boppo1 wrote:
| > Interestingly the Apple Pencil "hover" feature doesn't
| require a new generation of Pencil
|
| Yeah, it requires a new ipad.
|
| I'm a bit salty, not gonna lie. This has been basic on wacoms
| forever.
| duxup wrote:
| It seems like Apple has been embracing the folks who live and
| die on their iPad full time or mostly full time.
|
| I don't think I could do that now but there seems to be a
| sizable crowd who works that way and maybe is the future.
| awelkie wrote:
| I live pretty far from my parents, and I really want to set them
| up with a nice video conferencing setup so we can chat as well as
| in person. I started to spec out a nice setup with open-back
| headphones, 60 Hz 1080p camera, nice microphone, low latency
| screen, the works. But this would cost at least $1k, and I'm sure
| it would be difficult for them to operate. Plus it would be hard
| to use in certain situations like with children or while eating.
|
| So I've decided to get them the iPad Pro. I'm trusting Apple to
| focus on things like screen latency and microphone/speaker
| quality in their products. Plus it should be quite easy for my
| parents to use. It just seems to me like the iPad Pro is the best
| product for setting up non-tech people with a decent
| videoconferencing setup.
|
| Has anyone else solved this problem, or have thoughts on using an
| iPad for video chatting?
| zalthor wrote:
| I felt like the system that's in the portal from Facebook would
| be the ideal vc setup for my parents (i.e. video calling on a
| tv). Though, there's no way I'd want to put a camera from
| Facebook in my parents house. I did try Google duo (I guess
| it's call meet now?) with a Google tv, but since it was with a
| 3rd party web cam, things like autofocus didn't work as well as
| I'd like.
| syntaxing wrote:
| Second with what others said, the new standard iPad should fit
| your bill. It has the ultrawide camera too with people tracking
| which makes it even better.
| llampx wrote:
| > nice setup with open-back headphones, 60 Hz 1080p camera,
| nice microphone, low latency screen, the works.
|
| Why do all these niceties go out the window when the
| alternative is an iPad?
|
| Based on the use case, a simple last-gen iPad should do the job
| just as well.
| skybrian wrote:
| For video chat, you don't need the latest. After the camera on
| my MacBook stopped working, I started using a 5th gen iPad
| mini. I use it with a stand on the kitchen table, in landscape
| mode, and it's fine.
|
| Bigger isn't necessarily better. My wife has a full-size iPad
| and I find it awkwardly big for most purposes.
|
| But for ease of use for the technically challenged, I think
| something like a Nest Hub Max might be better, since it will
| automatically point the camera. Caveats: it's not easy to set
| up for someone without a cell phone (it's technically
| unsupported), but once you do it for them, it's easy to make a
| call. Also, weirdly, the video only works when they call me; if
| I call them it's audio only. (I ask them to call me back.)
| boppo1 wrote:
| Illustrator here. Very frustrating that hover cursor is new-
| device only. Here I was hoping for an apple pencil V3. I figured
| it would be a $200 upgrade, not sell-current-device + $1200. I've
| got a top of the line 2020 (all specs max) and it seems to have
| lost about half of its value going by ebay prices.
| can16358p wrote:
| Seriously, they should bring smart folio back. The one that
| doesn't have the unnecessary backside but only the side and the
| front cover.
| gumby wrote:
| I really miss that too! Unfortunately iPads now stupidly have a
| camera bump
| jbellis wrote:
| Did they discontinue smart folio keyboard? Magic Keyboard is
| almost 2x as heavy.
| kstrauser wrote:
| No, they fortunately still sell it:
| https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MXNL2LL/A/smart-
| keyboard-...
|
| It's my favorite case.
| user_7832 wrote:
| Do you have an image or link of which one this is?
|
| > Seriously, they should bring smart folio back. The one that
| doesn't have the unnecessary backside but only the side and the
| front cover.
| Jtsummers wrote:
| I think they mean the Smart Cover option.
|
| https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MQ4L2ZM/A/ipad-smart-
| cove...
|
| Magnetically attached to an edge, only covers the front when
| "closed", the back when open, or can be folded up to provide
| a stand.
| user_7832 wrote:
| Thanks! It looks like it can't cover the back fully the way
| it covers the front, right? IE the back part is only as a
| stand and not for protection.
| Jtsummers wrote:
| Sort of correct, it only covers the front _or_ the back
| (exclusive or), not both simultaneously. So when it 's
| being used as a hand-held tablet the back will be
| covered, but when it's used as a stand the back is mostly
| uncovered, and when the front is covered the back is
| uncovered.
| galoisscobi wrote:
| I wonder why developer tools are not a priority for Apple for
| "pro" iPads. At this point, it uses the M2 chip so the
| limitations on running IDEs, compilers and other tools just seem
| arbitrarily imposed.
| musictubes wrote:
| I keep hearing about the desire for developer tools on an ipad
| and I just don't get it. The entirety of iPadOS would need to
| be overhauled in order for it to be conducive for developer
| work. What is the appeal of doing dev work on a touch based UI
| with limited access to the file system on a cramped screen? The
| Mac is perfectly set up for that work.
| philliphaydon wrote:
| What about something like Jetbrains Fleet where its all done
| on a remote computer but the IDE is local?
| kstrauser wrote:
| I have a Smart Keyboard Folio case, which is super slim and
| light. My 12.9" 2018 iPad Pro is smaller and light but still
| has a good keyboard feel. (Note: I have a mechanical keyboard
| on my home Mac, but can still type like a demon on the thin
| iPad keyboard. It's surprisingly ergonomic.)
|
| I know there's basically no chance I'll be able to run Emacs
| or VS Code on this portable little device any time soon, but
| if I could, it'd be my main device by a long way. There's no
| hardware limitation preventing it, just artificial
| restrictions on a "pro" device.
| dijit wrote:
| > VS Code
|
| I have had the FOSS version of Gitpods working well on my
| iPad mini.. if that helps.
|
| I know it's not local, and we're mainly talking about using
| the local power at our finger-tips.. but, it's an option.
| sixstringtheory wrote:
| I don't want to use the touch interface while developing. I
| want to be able to do development on the same device that I
| can use the touch interface for other things as well, like
| using the Pencil to markup screenshots or design docs. It
| seems ridiculous that I still have to carry around a bigger,
| heavier laptop just for that one final use case.
|
| I also have been using a 13" mac for years, so "cramped
| screen" doesn't really apply to me on a 12.9" iPad pro's XDR.
| It is more than capable, and I would hopefully be able to
| plug it into my external monitor at home.
| lynndotpy wrote:
| I've done a significant amount of coding on a terminal on an
| Android phone.
|
| > The entirety of iPadOS would need to be overhauled in order
| for it to be conducive for developer work
|
| I disagree. I used an iPad for sysadmin, datascience, some
| math, and some web dev. Most of the pain comes from arbitrary
| restrictions Apple places on iPads. (I'd imagine it'll get
| more painful as my eyes worsen.)
|
| The appeal is simple: Being able to develop with whatever
| device you have on you. A laptop beats a tablet, a tablet
| beats a phone, and a phone beats pencil and paper.
| boppo1 wrote:
| I can afford an ipad pro or a macbook pro, not both. I
| primarily illustrate, but it would be damn nice to be able to
| compile apps for my ipad.
| DCKing wrote:
| They wouldn't even need to overhaul iPadOS! All they'd need
| to do is allow Parallels, VMWare or other folks to make
| virtualization software for the iPad, and people could just
| run Linux on it (or - gasp! - macOS). The M1 and M2 Macbooks
| can run virtual machines without a problem, but iPads are not
| (sigh) _allowed to_. Despite Apple explicitly and
| inexplicably selling 16GB models of the iPad Pro.
| parkingrift wrote:
| I want it to just run macOS. The 12.9" M2 iPad Pro is
| absolutely perfect for me in every way except the gimped OS.
| The screen is great, plenty of storage, amazing battery life,
| it's light and portable, WiFi 6E, and a cellular modem.
| Everyone has their own unique needs but for me this would be
| the absolute ultimate work device... if it ran macOS.
|
| As it stands I have absolutely no interest. It's generous to
| describe "Stage Manager" as a gimmick.
| Siira wrote:
| An iPad is more portable than a Mac.
| asdff wrote:
| You are saving like a pound and a half
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| What developer tools? The ability to create and install your
| own applications like an actual computer? That would circumvent
| their walled garden.
|
| I wish they'd just ship macOS as an "app" on their iPads
| bwilliams wrote:
| I'd even be happy with a performant VM app that I could run
| linux on at this point. It would be so nice to be able to
| swipe up and go from linux VM -> imessage, etc.
| etchalon wrote:
| There are developers tools for iPadOS, they're just not
| anything you can do professional work with.
|
| The main problem, I think, is most development tools require a
| relatively low-level of operating system access that Apple has
| not figured out a way to do given what they want iOS/iPadOS to
| "be".
|
| My suspicion is they'll eventually find a way to do containers
| in a manner that's relatively "safe", and they'll lean on
| Cloud-based build tools that move the hard work off device.
| hankchinaski wrote:
| I would assume this would cannibalise mac sales, very doubtful
| we will ever see compilers on ipad os
| zefhous wrote:
| Steve Jobs and Tim Cook have both stated that they don't
| hesitate to cannibalize their own products, and Apple has
| proved that many times over.
|
| Especially at the scale in which iPad having developer tools
| could ostensibly cannibalize Mac sales -- there's no way this
| would be a factor in the existence of those tools.
| lbotos wrote:
| If I get a 1TB iPad Pro (16GB of ram) with pencil and
| keyboard it's $2200.
|
| Without the pencil it's $2148.
|
| If I get a 1TB 13 Inch M2 Macbook (16GB ram) it's 1899.
|
| I have been avoiding getting an iPad because it can't run
| xCode, and it's _cheaper_ for me to get the laptop.
|
| Sure, some people are buying both, but I'm sure there are
| many like me that _aren 't_ because of this exact trade off.
| lbotos wrote:
| Anyone have iPad Pro screen protector recommendations? Looking to
| get one of these and worried about screens getting "softer glass"
| and would rather have a sacrificial layer on top.
| jessriedel wrote:
| I wanted the "paper feel", which gives the screen a bit of
| roughness so it feels like writing on paper rather than glass.
| I went with this brand on Amazon and have been very happy with
| it:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07N362JCW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b...
|
| I bought it 18 months ago and still haven't needed to replace
| it. I can clean it as easily as the bare screen.
|
| These types of layers add a very tiny amount of color
| distortion, so I guess not recommended if you do professional
| graphics work on the thing.
| hayst4ck wrote:
| I've generally been pretty happy with JETech's screen
| protectors, not happy with where they come from, not happy they
| appear to be a random amazon no-name brand, but I've been
| pretty loyal to them and when I've deviated, mostly to
| protectors bought in person, I've noticed a drop in quality.
| duxup wrote:
| For me this is one of those announcements that I'm excited to see
| the new version, so that I can maybe buy the previous version ;)
|
| That's not a knock on the new version in any way, just a
| reflection of how much I value this particular type of device /
| where I feel I need more power and etc.
| [deleted]
| flumpcakes wrote:
| I just purchased the iPad Air last week. The model I went for
| was 720 in my local currency, and after today's shop update is
| now 850. It looks like the Magic Keyboard also increased from
| 270 to 330.
| runjake wrote:
| Lots of iPad hate in the comments. But remember, if nobody wanted
| them, they wouldn't keep selling as well as they are.
|
| If you have no interest in an iPad, don't buy one. For me, it's
| not going to replace my general purpose computers any time soon,
| but its great for reading or carrying around while on the go for
| short bursts of work (SSH/Mosh with Blink app, RDP with Microsoft
| Remote Desktop, VNC with Screens, etc).
| [deleted]
| MichaelZuo wrote:
| Interestingly, the 11 inch iPad Pro still retains the LED display
| of the 2018 iPad Pro, unlike the FALD display of the 12.9 inch.
|
| Seems like display technology has matured and reached an
| equilibrium pricing state if even Apple can't justify the cost of
| investing in producing the fancier displays in a second size.
| zuhsetaqi wrote:
| Maybe it's also because of the cooling capacity of the 12.9" vs
| the 11" iPad
| MichaelZuo wrote:
| From what I understand it's the exact same cooling design
| except the larger surface area and thermal mass of the 12.9,
| which is almost entirely negated by the larger display
| generating more heat.
| wslh wrote:
| How long does the battery last? Comparing to the MacBook Air?
| mnholt wrote:
| From the tech specs: Up to 10 hours of surfing the web on Wi-Fi
| or watching video. 9 hours if using Cellular data.
| spullara wrote:
| which in comparison is about half of an air or pro.
| [deleted]
| balderdash wrote:
| If you only use communication tools, web based apps, Word, and
| only need to be able to open/tweak an excel or PowerPoint doc,
| then yeah they're awesome, anything more and you need a laptop.
| thepasswordis wrote:
| It is hilarious to me that apple keeps adding accessories to the
| iPad to make it look more and more like a laptop.
|
| The iPad is a very bad laptop, but is a great tablet.
| petarb wrote:
| The stage mode looks like an interesting attempt for desktop like
| productivity with an external monitor.
| rowanG077 wrote:
| Is it possible to run virtualized linux on these and have all
| hardware stuff working?
| asadlionpk wrote:
| Not yet. best so far is UTM.
| bullen wrote:
| But does UTM support OpenGL powered by the M2 GPU?!
|
| And off topic but what about connecting a mouse to this
| thing?
|
| And what about compiling apps on it!?
|
| What about running OpenGL on non emulated linux on this?
|
| I know the GPU is being worked on but do the old OpenGL parts
| work allready or is that part of the reverse engineering?
|
| I wish you could change batteries yourself... hopefully they
| have moved towards that: 3/10 on the old one: https://www.ifi
| xit.com/Teardown/iPad+Pro+11-Inch+Teardown/11...
| rowanG077 wrote:
| AFAIK there is nothing being worked on. I would be VERY
| interested on a faint glimmer of hope of linux being
| possible on Ipad Pros.
| bullen wrote:
| https://news.itsfoss.com/linux-gpu-driver-apple/
| rowanG077 wrote:
| That's only targeting the OSX based systems
| unfortunately. No iPads.
| bullen wrote:
| Noooo, but wait... that doesn't matter linux doesn't
| care... M2 GPU is all that matters...
|
| I mean it will be ported to iPad Pro in a week.
|
| Edit: You are right: https://www.reddit.com/r/AsahiLinux/
| comments/rar2uh/will_it_...
|
| They will crack the bootloader eventually!
| uses wrote:
| Pretty surprised they left the front camera on the side of the
| device. I can't figure out why they would think that makes sense
| after using it even once. It's so awkward trying to do a meeting
| and I have this weird camera angle coming from the corner of my
| face. The alternative is portrait orientation, which puts the
| camera really far from the center of the screen - feels like it's
| coming from above or below my face - and puts my video feed
| opposite to the orientation of my audience's screens, while also
| not being able to lean on the folded case.
| dubya wrote:
| The orientation is just a software problem. No reason Zoom et
| al can't have an option to crop to the right aspect ratio.
| theNJR wrote:
| This was the first thing I looked for. iPad is unusable for
| video calls.
| yamtaddle wrote:
| Everyone's creepily staring into nothing anyway. Except those
| of us who try to look at the camera instead of the screen
| most of the time. Which means we're not _actually_ looking at
| anyone 's face, even though it looks like we are, which is
| another problem.
|
| Being a bit off-center is the least of the problems with
| video calls.
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| Are you saying unusable because attachment to keyboard skews
| image centering/symmetry?
|
| I use my iPad for video calls (Zoom) all the freaking time
| and it's fine, but perhaps that's because i have it in the
| tall orientation so the camera aligns.
| agrippanux wrote:
| Not to mention video calls (Google Meet, Zoom, Teams) kill
| the battery on an iPad. Google Meet in particular seems to be
| about 1% of battery a minute.
| e40 wrote:
| On the ARM versions? My M2 air uses very little battery for
| zoom (1+ hr about 10% or less, don't remember).
| cassianoleal wrote:
| They are all ARM.
|
| I have an iPad Pro with A15, and it holds battery better
| than my M1 MacBook Air on video calls. They are both
| great though, much better than any x64 devices I have
| ever had.
| [deleted]
| crazygringo wrote:
| To say it's "unusable" is ridiculous.
|
| It works perfectly fine. Only main difference is that, in
| landscape mode, instead of people seeing you look slightly
| down instead of into the camera (like laptops), people see
| you look slightly left instead of into the camera.
|
| 99% of people seeing your image in the call won't notice or
| care. Especially when things like your lighting setup make
| most of the difference that people _do_ notice, which has
| nothing to do with the camera you 're using.
| gbil wrote:
| I was in a meeting the other and one of the participants looked
| off-center and he said "I joined with my tablet", ah yes was
| the remark from others
|
| Now, I had joined also from my tablet but samsung put the
| camera in the center when in landscape mode and got no such
| remarks and I was just smiling
| mojzu wrote:
| Yeah this would be an improvement I think, considering how
| little I've seen iPads used in portrait mode it's a little
| surprising they haven't done it already. I'm guessing it's to
| support the pencil charging, since the new iPad does have
| cameras in the expected landscape location but only supports
| pencil 1
| [deleted]
| lupire wrote:
| You are too close to the camera. (Probably because iOS doesn't
| have good crop and zoom)
| tlyleung wrote:
| The camera on the new non-Pro iPad has moved from the side to
| the top though. Not sure why the inconsistency between models.
| npunt wrote:
| They're reusing the old enclosure so they save on tooling &
| parts.
| lukasb wrote:
| This would be solved if Continuity Camera let your iPad use
| your iPhone camera. Doesn't seem like it does, though.
| hartator wrote:
| Can this actually replace a MacBook for a backend engineer
| workflow?
| crims0n wrote:
| No - but it's closer than ever, yet still probably years away.
| Gwarzo wrote:
| I would almost want to create a new thread for this, but what is
| the use case of a tablet? Is this for fulltime physical meeting
| goers to stylishly take notes?
|
| Is there some benefit to using this over a laptop?
| nickthegreek wrote:
| I know alot of tattoo artists, and they all use ipads for their
| designs.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| I can whip out my iPad when I'm on the train to work and watch
| streamed or locally downloaded stuff, a laptop is way too
| cumbersome for that even on a semi-crowded train.
|
| With a keyboard cover I can actually use it for messaging,
| emails, IM and maybe light writing. Using a stylus, I can
| either take freeform notes or draw stuff faster than I can with
| a mouse or touchpad.
|
| And in the pre-M1 days an iPad smoked pretty much every laptop
| in battery performance.
| randcraw wrote:
| The iPad boots up in just 1 second. I can do 90% of what I do
| on a computer on it, at a much more adjustable angle, and it's
| a lot more portable.
|
| A tablet is integrated into my daily routine to a degree a
| laptop will never be.
| deepspace wrote:
| I use my tablet about as much as my desktop and laptop. My use
| cases are:
|
| (1) Personal entertainment device. When relaxing on a chair or
| in bed, a laptop is too unwieldy. The TV gets fought over.
| Pretty much all my movie / YouTube watching is done on the iPad
| with headphones.
|
| (2) eBook reader. Since my iPad is always withing reach, it
| makes sense to store all my books on it.
|
| (3) Stylish note-taker. Not a significant part of my use, but I
| occasionally have stand-up meetings, and meetings in awkward
| locations, where a tablet makes more sense than a laptop.
|
| (4) Signing stuff. It is much easier to store a document to be
| signed in OneDrive, open it on the iPad and sign it with the
| stylus than it is to print-sign-scan.
| piva00 wrote:
| I was on the fence when the iPad Pro M1 was released, it seemed
| to finally tick off as a laptop replacement for some of my
| hobbies (photography and music) but unfortunately it is not a
| desktop OS, not supporting desktop workflows and apps that I'm
| used to.
|
| If it was a screen-only version of my MBA M1 I could definitely
| ditch the MBA and use an iPad exclusively, even if it required
| attaching a keyboard sometimes. The lacking software still
| makes it much more of a luxury to me than something to actually
| replace my use cases for a portable computer... I could afford
| one but see absolutely no usage given that my MBA is already
| extremely portable and works like I expect.
| random42_ wrote:
| I know it's very niche and doesn't apply to everybody but I
| know of a bunch of comic book/comic strip artists that are
| doing more and more work on the iPad pro and less on their
| Wacom devices.
| boppo1 wrote:
| Illustrators/sculptors. It's not as good as wacom+workstation,
| but I like not being bound to one place.
| squeaky-clean wrote:
| I bought my iPad (non-pro) mainly to play online chess, to read
| comic books, and for D&D pdfs at the table. It's also a nice
| web-browsing and video watching machine. The iPad Pro's are a
| bit excessive for that sort of "consumer" usage though.
|
| The only great use-case I've seen for the pro is 2d digital
| art. I have a few artist friends who love the pro+pencil.
|
| Music production on one really interests me, but none of my
| favorite plugins (effects and instruments) that work
| MacOS/Windows exist for the ipad. They also don't offer enough
| storage at the high end Komplete 14 Ultimate is 680GB. Each of
| the Spitfire sample libraries is near 200GB
|
| There are some nice sequencing apps, but again don't need the
| pro for that, I just send the MIDI or OSC data to a "real"
| computer running a "real" DAW.
| gherkinnn wrote:
| For me it's the form factor.
|
| It's the perfect thing to take travelling. And on the work
| side, the pen is astonishingly good as is the app ecosystem.
|
| It also functions as a second screen for a macbook.
|
| Is it necessary? No. Have I spent money in worse? Absolutely.
| helf wrote:
| I had an iPad for a long while way back. I bought the Retina one
| initially.
|
| It was nice for what it was.
|
| I just can't get excited about anything iOS as unless you have
| REALLY bought into the "ecosystem" it's a clusterfuck.
|
| - File management is still a sick joke.
|
| - unless they've really changed something that I'm unaware of
| (which I'll admit is entirely possible) with "iPadOS" vs regular
| iOS, multitasking is still a pathetic joke. The state saving and
| pausing which relegates the devices to essentially fancy task
| switching and not real preemptive multitasking (other than
| extremely specific program scenarios and services functionality)
| which drives me insane. Why the hell does my SSH client have to
| constantly ping my location to get around the "you can run 13
| seconds in the background before the OS forcefully state pauses
| you"? Why the fuck can't apple give a nice little "this app can
| run run run till it's little heart bursts in the background!"
| Toggle switch you can control?
|
| People go on and on about iPhone battery life and... there's a
| reason for that.
|
| - The ridiculous sandboxing between programs that's supposedly a
| security feature but just makes for an insufferably inconsistent
| UI and terrible management of data between programs ... I guess
| that goes with my file management complaint.
|
| I dunno. I just can't abide a complete blackbox lockdown of my
| devices to the point of them being literal appliances. But
| apparently I'm in the minority there.
|
| Also, most people appear to just be perfectly happy rapidly task
| switching. And having only most of their programs paused when
| switched from works fine for them I guess.
|
| I will say for /consumption/ of say documents like PDFs and
| Comics, the iPad is fantastic. But outside of that basic usage
| they drive me insane.
|
| Sorry for the meandering rant. I'm waiting for food with my 8yo
| and bored lol
| kaba0 wrote:
| > The ridiculous sandboxing between programs that's supposedly
| a security feature but just makes for an insufferably
| inconsistent UI and terrible management of data between
| programs ... I guess that goes with my file management
| complaint.
|
| I don't know, I do think that in theory that strong of a
| sandboxing is superior and would actually like a better
| implementation of that on even something like linux. Most of my
| programs absolutely have no reason to read my documents and
| what not.
| [deleted]
| mr_tristan wrote:
| I had the first generation iPad Pro. And eventually I gave it
| to my wife for a lot of the same reasons you list.
|
| Ultimately, Apple will just doesn't want you to separate your
| data from the app. It's not just that it's a walled garden,
| it's a wall around you maintaining your data.
|
| My primary tablet usage during the work day is taking notes.
| With a pen. And I've started organizing my notes into a self-
| indexed hierarchy of images. And for backup, those images go
| into S3. I can then just sync any other machine and peruse the
| images using Digikam which is kind of nice for a free open
| source app.
|
| Every solution I've found in the iPad just requires you to put
| your data in some kind of isolated app playground, and then
| jump hoops to try to move it into any kind of backup system you
| can access on desktop OSes. I bought a Microsoft Surface, and
| despite not having worked in Windows in a decade or so, I was
| able to get my image-based note taking workflow done and set up
| in a day.
|
| So, this iPad is a beautiful device I will never own. Purely
| because of their software policies. It's annoying.
| gnicholas wrote:
| > _File management is still a sick joke._
|
| I don't know if it's just me, but it seems like every time I go
| to save or open something on my iPad it defaults to iCloud. I
| don't have a paid iCloud account and find this supremely
| annoying, especially because the default folder names inside
| iCloud are the same as in local folders. It's as if they're
| trying to cause people to accidentally save stuff to iCloud, to
| get them in the habit of using it (and then paying for it).
| 0xCMP wrote:
| I used to be a die-hard iPad-for-coding user, but with the advent
| of the M1 MBAs I couldn't justify it anymore.
|
| The thing that broke me was that if I wanted a remote development
| env (because at the end of the day you can't do development on an
| iPad without some remote computer running stuff for you) at the
| time you needed to a) provision on via safari manually b) have
| some kind of script or something on the iPad capable of doing
| that for you c) have a cheap/low-power computer always running to
| run the scripts. [This is assuming you don't have a remote
| computer already you can turn on. E.g. "only iPad + on-demand
| cloud resources"]
|
| I eventually concluded the M1 MBA is a better option because of
| how heavy an iPad Pro 12" + Magic KB Case is in comparison.
|
| I still *love* my iPad Pro. The screen is almost a good enough
| reason to use it. Also it had LTE which was very useful.
|
| I still think it's possible to make the iPad do everything I
| wanted the M1 MBA to do without significantly changing how Apps
| are developed or restrictions on iPadOS (and apps like ShellFish,
| WorkingCopy, and Blink Shell are really my go-to examples of how
| that could have existed all this time), but while possible today
| it's just much higher friction and cost to use an iPad to do the
| same thing an entry-level M1 MBA could do.
| powersurge360 wrote:
| Is this using an iPad for coding or is this using an iPad as a
| dumb terminal and using something else for development?
|
| At the end of the day, that's what makes an iPad unappealing
| for me as a development machine. If I am going to pay for an
| iPad and then rent an affordable VPS just to dev on then why
| not just buy a computer I can develop on locally right away?
| Sure, LTE is cool but it probably is more cost effective to go
| the other way and pay for a hotspot plan for your phone and
| tether your computer that way.
|
| That being said, I do occasionally feel cool doing dev on my
| laptop remotely from my iPad using a combination of tailscale,
| tethering from my phone and using iSH to ssh into an emacs
| session.
| sdze wrote:
| Still no torrent app possible = no buy.
|
| Hopefully the EU breaks Apples' App Store Monopoly.
| jbverschoor wrote:
| Still no NFC?
| nkristoffersen wrote:
| Best feature not really mentioned is Sidecar! Having a second
| high quality screen has been a game changer. So portable and so
| powerful. I will be upgrading my 2018 12.9 iPad Pro to the
| latest. Mostly for the better screen to match my M1 Max.
| retskrad wrote:
| Here in Scandinavia, the base iPhone 14 Pro Max, M2 MacBook Air
| and the new M2 iPad Pro all cost the same: $1,484. Good lord!
| whalesalad wrote:
| lol - they're all basically the exact same thing with a
| different display
| davnicwil wrote:
| Stepping back and reflecting on the fact this is true is very
| cool indeed.
| thih9 wrote:
| In case of the MacBook and the iPad, seems like it's more
| about the OS. At least that's what most comments here are
| mentioning when comparing an iPad to a MacBook.
| [deleted]
| faeriechangling wrote:
| Pretty boring announcement, biggest things is that Apple finally
| has stock of Broadcom 6E radios so you can expect those going
| forwards, and that ad expected Apple couldn't manage to get over
| 600nits on their small screen device.
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