[HN Gopher] TOTP tokens on my wrist with the smartest dumb watch
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       TOTP tokens on my wrist with the smartest dumb watch
        
       Author : emreb
       Score  : 325 points
       Date   : 2022-10-18 05:50 UTC (17 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.singleton.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.singleton.io)
        
       | sneak wrote:
       | Cool hack. That said:
       | 
       | A security reminder to anyone who is in the target audience here:
       | if you're clever enough to have TOTP 2FA enabled on your Google
       | account, get some cheap USB security keys and enable Advanced
       | Protection, which completely disables non-hardware 2FA. It
       | requires two different tokens (and you should really get one for
       | each computer you have/use, plus at least one offsite backup)
       | because once enabled it actually and completely locks anyone out
       | of the account that does not possess one of the enrolled tokens.
       | 
       | https://landing.google.com/advancedprotection/
       | 
       | TOTP is not much better than SMS-based 2FA. It's still vulnerable
       | to phishing, local device malware (that attacks your TOTP in your
       | password manager), etc. It's best to use hardware tokens
       | everywhere that support them, and both Google and GitHub do. (And
       | Google supports a special hardware token only mode which I wish
       | more sites would adopt.)
        
         | mhkool wrote:
         | I like the yubico key that even has a pin code so if lost or
         | stolen protects your TOTP codes
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | > which completely disables non-hardware 2FA
         | 
         | Does this make Google stop asking for my phone number?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | xupybd wrote:
         | Can you recommend any cheap USB security keys? I've looked in
         | the past and cost has been prohibitive.
        
           | sneak wrote:
           | I have a $50 yubikey nano plugged into each of my multiple-
           | thousand-dollar computers, protecting my accounts
           | containing/accessing client data worth millions.
           | 
           | If anything under $100 is too much to secure your account,
           | just use SMS 2FA, or disable 2FA entirely.
        
           | masklinn wrote:
           | Fwiw big players regularly give free keys to e.g. OSS
           | maintainers. Dunno if it's still active but Pypy has a
           | program for maintainers of crates flagged as sensitive (or
           | something like that), you can get two Titan keys courtesy of
           | google.
           | 
           | I also have a pair of github-branded yubikeys from a long
           | time ago but I don't remember what that program was.
           | 
           | > cost has been prohibitive.
           | 
           | A titan is 35 or so, hardly prohibitive. And if you have
           | access to anything important your company ought be glad to
           | get you one or two, or yubis.
        
           | niel wrote:
           | Cloudflare and Yubico are in partnership to provide YubiKeys
           | at a discount:
           | 
           | https://www.cloudflare.com/products/zero-trust/phishing-
           | resi...
           | 
           | Related thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33020078
        
             | sitic wrote:
             | US Google One users on a >=2TB plan should currently also
             | have an offer for a free Titan key at
             | https://one.google.com/benefits
        
             | Tijdreiziger wrote:
             | > Eligible customers must have an active zone or actively
             | use Cloudflare Zero Trust.
        
           | madc wrote:
           | Have you looked into these? https://solokeys.com
        
             | rjzzleep wrote:
             | I was a backer of the V2 and I think my order is now a year
             | overdue. I don't really back things on kickstarter because
             | I don't like to gamble, but this seemed like a sure bet.
             | Turns out it wasn't.
        
               | ibotty wrote:
               | I got my solokeys v2. A bummer that they did not ship to
               | some folks.
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | I got mine (and it randomly died so they sent me a second
               | one). You still haven't received your first one? That
               | sucks, they're generally very good devices (minus them
               | randomly dying, I guess).
        
               | Brajeshwar wrote:
               | Not them but I have stopped backing projects on
               | Kickstarter, because I have been burned to the tune of
               | $2,000+ (2016-17-ish currency conversion).
        
         | tzs wrote:
         | > TOTP is not much better than SMS-based 2FA. It's still
         | vulnerable to phishing, local device malware (that attacks your
         | TOTP in your password manager), etc.
         | 
         | It's still massively better than SMS-bases 2FA. Those
         | vulnerabilities you list are all things that involve you or
         | your device. You can take care to avoid them.
         | 
         | With SMS there are also vulnerabilities that don't involve you
         | or your device, such as someone convincing your carrier to
         | transfer your phone number to them.
        
           | UncleMeat wrote:
           | SIM swap is real but rare, since it cannot be automated. It
           | is also largely defeated by having a strong and unique
           | password, assuming that your provider doesn't use SMS as a
           | single factor password reset option.
           | 
           | If you've got a strong and unique password then your primary
           | concern should be phishing, which is the same for sms and
           | totp.
        
         | vladvasiliu wrote:
         | While I agree with your points regarding the security of TOTP /
         | SMS, and I do push for hardware keys at work, I think a case
         | could be made for a mixed use for "regular people".
         | 
         | Maintaining two hardware keys is an absolute PITA, especially
         | if you go down the route of storing one off-site, hence not
         | having it with you to enroll when you get a new account.
         | 
         | What I do, is use the hardware token as the "main" factor and
         | use the TOTP if for some reason I don't have the token (I may
         | sometimes forget it at home when I'm at my parents' house).
         | 
         | The point is that, since I usually have my key, if I'm
         | presented with a Google or whatever prompt for a TOTP, I know
         | something's fishy. I don't normally use that, so I'll
         | investigate why that happens and won't just go ahead and type
         | my code in there.
        
           | jasonjayr wrote:
           | This needs to be repeated too. And developers need to be
           | reminded that anything they secure with hardware keys
           | absolutely _needs_ to accept multiple hardware keys in order
           | to mitigate loss or destruction of the first key.
        
         | quickthrower2 wrote:
         | Not so sure, for me I am going to forget to have the hardware
         | device. I will probably lose it. I will forget to take it with
         | me and then can't access things mobile. Or will take it out
         | with me and lose it. Have enough stuff to keep track of! I
         | would use hardware for some occasional use logins though.
         | 
         | Why is TOTP not much better than SMS? Someone can take over
         | your phone contract to get those SMS messages by sweet talking
         | your telco, but for TOTP they need to get hold of my device or
         | get some malware onto my phone.
        
         | rjzzleep wrote:
         | > TOTP is not much better than SMS-based 2FA. It's still
         | vulnerable to phishing, local device malware (that attacks your
         | TOTP in your password manager), etc. It's best to use hardware
         | tokens everywhere that support them, and both Google and GitHub
         | do. (And Google supports a special hardware token only mode
         | which I wish more sites would adopt.)
         | 
         | Since this device doesn't actually have network connectivity he
         | might have this problem potentially when someone is watching
         | his watch with a camera, or if someone is able to do something
         | in his close proximity, which means it absolutely is better
         | than SMS-based 2FA and the phishing attack vector is different
         | and if a person has access to him in close proximity anyway the
         | cheap USB security doesn't offer anything(well not completely
         | true, but almost) over this particular TOTP use case.
         | 
         | Security is kinda cool these days and everyone is a security
         | expert, but just reiterating trained responses without actually
         | thinking about the attack vectors is getting a bit annoying.
         | It's as if it is cool to say the most secure use case people
         | can think of without even considering what and who it is that
         | is actually protected and from whom.
        
           | hennell wrote:
           | Well if you want to look at specific attack vectors this one
           | may have remote access issues based on what and where you
           | store the source code. I'd guess OP knows what he's doing,
           | but someone trying this with an accidentally open repo or
           | comprised machine are possibly bigger risks here then with
           | most other TOTP solutions.
           | 
           | Equally it has the hardware key flaw of being able to be
           | physically stolen, but with no option of an additional lock,
           | and more likely then most systems that you might leave the
           | totp running so a camera exploit is a little easier then with
           | an app maybe.
           | 
           | Not to say I think any of this is likely, and with the
           | exception of a public repo mistake, it's probably a lot
           | harder then an SMS exploit.
        
           | jgrahamc wrote:
           | TOTP is really vulnerable to phishing. Hardware keys are the
           | solution.
        
             | rjzzleep wrote:
             | Yeah, sure, but then again a watch on your wrist is harder
             | to take away than a hardware key on your physical keychain
             | that you don't pay attention to.
             | 
             | EDIT: yes, lol, thank you for explaining what phishing is
             | jgrahamc. We didn't know. I get that a lot of Americans and
             | some Germans guard their car keys like an internal organ,
             | but for a lot of people in the world a keychain is
             | something you toss in an insecure place most of the time of
             | the day.
        
               | throwawaaarrgh wrote:
               | stealing watches is pretty trivial if you practice. but
               | also TOTP is just more inconvenient than, say, the
               | Microsoft authenticator with biometric confirm and server
               | push, or a token you just press that's near your computer
               | or phone. the fact that these can also help defeat
               | phishing is just one more benefit.
        
               | vladvasiliu wrote:
               | It may be easier to steal, but it should have some kind
               | of minimal protection. It should lock out after a low
               | number of failed pins, for example. The YubiKeys do this.
        
               | jgrahamc wrote:
               | Phishing doesn't require stealing the watch. It just
               | requires me to type in a TOTP token on a phishing
               | website. Very different threat model than physical
               | access.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | KingOfCoders wrote:
       | Where does one buy the sensor board? Or is it only DIY?
       | 
       | [edit] https://www.crowdsupply.com/oddly-specific-objects/sensor-
       | wa...
        
       | diego_moita wrote:
       | For the best smartwatch ever made I recommend Pebble
       | Authenticator: https://github.com/Neal/pebble-authenticator
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | wryun wrote:
       | If you're a bit weirded out by the website secret pasting, I made
       | a PR which lets the sensor watch load TOTP secrets from an Aegis
       | export (essentially just a bunch of TOTP URIs):
       | 
       | https://github.com/joeycastillo/Sensor-Watch/pull/95
       | 
       | This is the reason I bought the board. It makes me happy not
       | having to use my phone for this.
        
       | cbm-vic-20 wrote:
       | I just wanted to call out how cool it is to replace the guts of a
       | 1980s-era wristwatch with a ARM Cortex M0+ microcontroller, while
       | reusing the original display and buttons.
        
         | andrepd wrote:
         | One of my long-term hacker project goals is to replace the guts
         | of an analog watch with a microcontroller and turn it into a
         | "smartwatch-lite". There's a surprising amount of information
         | and features you can display with three pointers (and a small
         | numeric window): temperature, heartrate and other body sensors,
         | NFC to replace payment or access cards, etc.
        
           | wlesieutre wrote:
           | Not as customizable as what I'm sure you're planning, but
           | Withings makes watches with that design direction
           | 
           | https://www.withings.com/us/en/watches
        
             | andrepd wrote:
             | Yep there are plenty of watches like that (for example
             | Fossil I think), but I'd really like to take a nice vintage
             | watch and build a hackable watch platform myself.
        
             | jkepler wrote:
             | Yeah, I had a Withings semismart watch, one of their
             | cheaper models without a screen. It integrated a pedometer,
             | and had a dial had that would show steps taken, it moved
             | from 0 to 100% of your goal. One had to pair it to the
             | Withings Android app to set not just the goal for number of
             | steps/day, but even for setting the time.
             | 
             | I sold it after a few months, realizing how much I missed a
             | second hand and a glow-in-the-dark face. Also, the app had
             | a ton of telemetry going back to Withings.
             | 
             | Building your own you would be in full control of the data.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Waiting for keyboard with NFC making this even simpler.
        
       | Tepix wrote:
       | Neat. For those who don't want to tinker with hardware (just
       | software) - is there a nice app providing TOTP for the PineTime
       | smartwatch?
        
         | wryun wrote:
         | It is pretty trivial to put this board in a Casio watch; I'm
         | not even sure I'd call it tinkering unless you decided you want
         | to connect the buzzer (requires soldering one bit of metal).
        
         | m4lvin wrote:
         | Not for PineTime, but the bangle.js has a a 2FA TOTP app:
         | https://banglejs.com/apps/?id=authentiwatch
         | 
         | For InfiniTime (the PineTime firmware), here is the
         | issue/discussion about it:
         | https://github.com/InfiniTimeOrg/InfiniTime/issues/310
        
       | trustingtrust wrote:
       | There needs to be a button based passcode to view TOTP instead of
       | just pressing one button once. That would add a layer of
       | security. A combination of buttons and number of presses should
       | still be somewhat added security.
        
         | Arainach wrote:
         | What's the threat model here? The TOTP code is worthless
         | without the password. You would need to get my password and
         | physically obtain the watch; what threat does a button code
         | protect against?
         | 
         | Someone who steals the watch from my house doesn't have the
         | password.
         | 
         | Someone who phishes the password doesn't have access to the
         | watch.
         | 
         | The government agent who has exerted enough physical force or
         | legal coercion to get me to cough up the password can demand
         | the TOTP code at the same time.
        
           | Cthulhu_ wrote:
           | The only added security I can think of on a two factor
           | authentication thing is a fingerprint reader on a physical
           | hardware key, and even that's more of a gimmick than
           | anything. And maybe TOTP codes generated from a password
           | manager, but IMO that already defeats the purpose of two-
           | factor because if your one device with password manager is
           | compromised, they have both password and the second factor.
           | 
           | The four number code IS the added security already.
        
       | Piisamirotta wrote:
       | Damn the font size is way too large on my mobile, unreadable.
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | What's old is new once again. It's the old RSA SecurID token
       | generator, but now it has water-resistance and an LED! I'll buy
       | one.
        
       | tacon wrote:
       | Are there any similar boards or projects for taking over a large
       | wall-mounted LCD clock? I would love to hack on that display.
        
       | distcs wrote:
       | Is there some Unix-ish tool to generate these TOTPs on a laptop?
       | I don't like to keep the 2nd factor on a small mobile device that
       | is easy to lose. So I ask about a laptop tool.
       | 
       | By Unix-ish I mean something that is small and does one thing
       | well. Like pipe in a secret to it and it gives me a TOTP? Pipe in
       | multiple secrets and it gives me multiple TOTPs? Then I don't
       | have to remain beholden to a custom encryption format. I can
       | encrypt my secrets with other Unix-ish tools, decrypt it, pipe it
       | to this tool and get my TOTPs. Recommendations?
        
         | wolczek wrote:
         | https://keepassxc.org comes with keepassxc-cli
        
         | nashashmi wrote:
         | Totp.app is a great web app. So you can install on your phone
         | as well
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | Amorymeltzer wrote:
         | From today! https://drewdevault.com/2022/10/18/TOTP-is-
         | easy.html
        
         | grenoire wrote:
         | I just cooked up something in Python if you have it installed
         | on your system, quite straightforward to use. If there's
         | interest, I can prepare a compiled version.
         | 
         | Unlike the other ones posted here, this one just takes secrets
         | as arguments:                   > python -mtotp
         | DGLTPWEUERUUDCEC SWPKQCKEWRXPCRXE         628502         674329
         | 
         | https://pastebin.com/apNKxMBF
        
           | susam wrote:
           | I believe it is worth mentioning here that reading secrets
           | from command line arguments exposes the secrets in shell
           | history (e.g., ~/.bash_history, ~/.zsh_history, etc.), thus
           | writing the secrets in cleartext to the filesystem. If
           | command line auditing is enabled on a system, any secrets in
           | command line arguments would be exposed in such audit logs
           | too.
           | 
           | Further, if multiple users are logged into the same system
           | (perhaps an unlikely scenario for most people), then secrets
           | in command line arguments would expose the secrets in the
           | output of ps -ef too thereby exposing the secrets to other
           | users.
           | 
           | By the way, I have a similar script at
           | https://github.com/susam/mintotp but it reads secrets from
           | the standard input (as opposed to reading from command line
           | arguments), one secret per line, and outputs TOTP values, one
           | per line. Most of what this script does can be done with
           | oathtool too and there is a section titled "Alternative: OATH
           | Toolkit" in the README that documents this in detail.
        
             | twalla wrote:
             | fun fact: you can teach your shell to ignore commands that
             | begin with a space character. in bash $HISTCONTROL needs to
             | be ignorespace or ignoreboth, in zsh you must setopt
             | HIST_IGNORE_SPACE
        
             | neilv wrote:
             | > _reading secrets from command line arguments exposes the
             | secrets in shell history_
             | 
             | Yes, and process arguments (such as from command line) can
             | also be accessible in process list data that's accessible
             | to other processes and users.
             | 
             | Even if the process only lives for an instant, or normally
             | no other processes could access the data, good practice is
             | to nevertheless keep secrets out of any process arguments.
        
             | grenoire wrote:
             | I should indeed have mentioned that. On the other hand,
             | this is not a concern if you do not execute the it outside
             | your shell (e.g. in another script that reads TOTP secrets
             | from elsewhere).
        
         | 3np wrote:
         | Here's an example of how you can wrap oathtool from oath-
         | toolkit: https://markusholtermann.eu/2018/08/simple-bash-totp-
         | script/
         | 
         | https://www.nongnu.org/oath-toolkit/
        
         | computerfriend wrote:
         | You can also store them on YubiKeys, accessible on the command
         | line with ykman.
        
         | maeln wrote:
         | > Is there some Unix-ish tool to generate these TOTPs on a
         | laptop? I don't like to keep the 2nd factor on a small mobile
         | device that is easy to lose.
         | 
         | I know that this is not really answering your question, but
         | most open-source TOTP apps (like andOTP and Aegis) can export
         | all the TOTP in an encrypted file that you can save. So if you
         | lose your main TOTP device you can restore all of them quite
         | easily.
        
         | markstos wrote:
         | You are looking for a Yubikey and `ykman`.
         | 
         | This is secure because the secret never leaves the hardware
         | key.
         | 
         | This is convenient because you launch a tool with a global
         | keyboard shortcut and copy/paste the code. I use `yubikey-oath-
         | dmenu` to allow me to quickly filter to the TOTP code I need.
        
         | undume wrote:
         | OATH Tookit provides console tool for generating TOTP codes:
         | oathtool. https://www.nongnu.org/oath-toolkit/
        
         | guipsp wrote:
         | https://github.com/WhyNotHugo/totp-cli
        
         | aw1cks wrote:
         | pass-otp[0] integrates into pass[1] nicely. It's about as
         | unix-y as password/secret management comes in my eyes.
         | 
         | Alternatively, gopass[2], which re-implements pass in golang,
         | has this functionality built in[3].
         | 
         | [0] https://github.com/tadfisher/pass-otp
         | 
         | [1] https://www.passwordstore.org/
         | 
         | [2] https://www.gopass.pw/
         | 
         | [3]
         | https://github.com/gopasspw/gopass/blob/master/docs/commands...
        
           | tadfisher wrote:
           | Thanks for the compliment!
        
           | nashashmi wrote:
           | Also need to mention totp.app
           | 
           | It allows export import feature of keys
        
         | emreb wrote:
         | Authy used to have a Chrome client you can run on your computer
         | that syncronizes all your secrets.
        
         | adamgordonbell wrote:
         | I think you want oathtool.
         | 
         | You can also use python's pyotp.totp.now()
         | 
         | https://earthly.dev/blog/multi-factor-auth/
        
         | lukeschlather wrote:
         | You need a TPM 2.0 compatible CPU, but something like this
         | sounds really excellent:
         | https://github.com/tpm2-software/tpm2-totp
         | 
         | This means your laptop itself would be your hardware device,
         | the TOTP secret would be stored in the TPM and theoretically
         | impossible to steal/copy. Of course this means you will
         | probably want a mobile device (possibly a second laptop also)
         | as a backup.)
        
           | cryptonector wrote:
           | Note that tpm2-totp is specifically meant to authenticate
           | your laptop's state (TPM PCR values) to you, not you to some
           | third system. But you could adapt tpm2-totp for the purpose
           | of authenticating you to other systems.
        
         | tecleandor wrote:
         | Several options...
         | 
         | Not exactly the same, but if you're using Bitwarden (which is
         | compatible with generating TOTP tokens) to manage your
         | passwords, you can use their bitwarden-cli tool to request
         | tokens from the cli: https://bitwarden.com/help/cli/#get
         | 
         | But if you want the simplest cli thing, you can probably can
         | use this golang ( https://github.com/yitsushi/totp-cli ) or
         | this python ( https://github.com/WhyNotHugo/totp-cli )
         | implementations.
        
       | Brajeshwar wrote:
       | If you are not that a hacker but already own a Smartwatch such as
       | the Apple Watch, Authy[1] is a pretty rock solid option. I use
       | Authy for a few key credentials, and I have used my watch for the
       | keys.
       | 
       | FYI, Authy was bought and is now owned by Twilio
       | 
       | 1. https://authy.com
        
         | k8sToGo wrote:
         | I use Authy as well. Best part is it backups your stuff.
        
           | Avamander wrote:
           | Are those backups E2EE?
           | 
           | Also to be totally honest, each device should have their own
           | TOTP key and while backups are fine*, key sharing isn't.
        
             | jabroni_salad wrote:
             | Key sharing isnt fine but how many web services will let me
             | enroll multiple totp tokens simultaneously? I havent
             | encountered any, personally. yall designed this reality,
             | now you have to live in it.
        
             | stoplying1 wrote:
             | No. They aren't. This thread is seriously upsetting to
             | read. So many people clearly haven't even remotely begun to
             | think about what they're doing or the implications thereof.
        
               | bjord wrote:
               | everything I've read suggests that they are, in fact,
               | E2EE
               | 
               | of course, they're not open source, so I'm not _really_
               | going to bat for them here, but am I missing something?
               | 
               | https://authy.com/blog/how-the-authy-two-factor-backups-
               | work...
               | 
               | https://www.ghacks.net/2022/08/10/twilio-the-company-
               | behind-...
               | 
               | etc.
        
               | stoplying1 wrote:
               | Another user here pointed out that Authy uses a user
               | provided password to encrypt the 2fa secrets on the
               | server. That's definitely more secure than I had said,
               | that's my mistake. (I still have my reservations, but
               | that's getting too pedantic to matter here)
        
           | Maxburn wrote:
           | That's the feature that got me into Authy. The other feature
           | being it wasn't a google product.
        
         | dontlaugh wrote:
         | There's also Step Two, for iOS, Watch OS and even macOS. I
         | quite like it.
        
           | whatsthatabout wrote:
           | That's what I use as well. Nice apps, fair pricing (One-time
           | payment) and no data collection. Started using it only
           | because of its feature to sync between devices with iCloud -
           | so no more stress if my phone breaks.
        
             | Avamander wrote:
             | Unfortunately it has no import/export functionality and
             | truncates eight/ten-digit TOTP codes. As I mentioned in an
             | another comment, even then it is better than most
             | alternatives on iOS.
        
         | stoplying1 wrote:
         | Ah yes, Twilio, the company that activated 2FA, forced users to
         | activate it during login, and somehow forced it to be SMS auth
         | (aka, completely jamming my account because I dared to login).
         | 
         | Had to manually contact them to resolve and then close the
         | account because FUCK THAT, and fuck SendGrid too, which did the
         | exact same thing after Twilio acquired them.
         | 
         | Sorry, I don't buy for a second that that was an accident or
         | negligence. I'm sick of watching people play ball with
         | companies that pull such moves. (Edit: you want to KYC me to
         | prevent abuse? Fine. Don't make my startup insecure to achieve
         | it.)
         | 
         | Authy is just not a good suggestion here when there are
         | standard, non-needlessly-tied-to-sms options.
        
         | ayewo wrote:
         | I use Duo Mobile [1] with my Apple Watch.
         | 
         | Authy gets recommended often here but got turned off of them
         | because they require a phone number to set up the app on iOS.
         | There's no phone number requirement for TOTP implementations so
         | I eventually found Duo Mobile. This was before they got bought
         | by Cisco.
         | 
         | 1: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/duo-mobile/id422663827
        
           | Brajeshwar wrote:
           | Ah! I used Authy because it was one of the very early OGs of
           | TOTP Apps.
        
           | GekkePrutser wrote:
           | I use AndOTP on Android. You can export to a PGP-encrypted
           | JSON file so your keys are really your own and not locked
           | into a walled garden like Authy.
        
             | Avamander wrote:
             | AndOTP is great. Especially if you compare it with all the
             | iOS options.
             | 
             | iOS TOTP apps all suck, it's amazingly bad. I installed
             | like ~15 different ones. After the fifth try, I just had to
             | know if it was just my poor initial selection or a general
             | problem.
             | 
             | Each and every iOS TOTP app has at least one crucial
             | problem - requiring a subscription, mandatory sync to a
             | proprietary cloud, having no export-import, not having a
             | watch companion, being from an unknown/generic developer,
             | no support for longer TOTP codes (worse, some display it
             | truncated!) or they're simply very buggy.
             | 
             | I settled on Step Two because it was like all the others,
             | but not an eyesore...
        
               | Caboose8685 wrote:
               | Did you try Ravio OTP? I've seen good things said about
               | it by FOSS people.
               | 
               | https://raivo-otp.com/
        
               | Avamander wrote:
               | Yes. It had no import functionality, no Apple Watch
               | companion, and a relatively convoluted setup process that
               | adds a point of failure without reasonable reduction in
               | any risk.
               | 
               | One would have to set a password that they then store in
               | a password manager, that is then accessed using the same
               | 2FA protected by the password. Plus a mandatory PIN, with
               | the same caveats. Cyclical or duplicate authentication is
               | simply not good design.
        
               | alibert wrote:
               | I have been using OTP Auth for a while. It doesn't get
               | updated a lot but it's working fine.
               | 
               | https://cooperrs.de/otpauth.html
        
               | jasonjayr wrote:
               | iOS's security makes a self-hosted/non-third party
               | backup/sync super difficult IIRC. (Unless you use Apple's
               | product) I think unless the app has it built in, it's not
               | easily doable. Android can use syncthing, but even Google
               | is making that more and more difficult with each release.
               | 
               | Is there a standard app developers can use to securely
               | sync/backup to for self-hosters? Is there a 'nice'
               | UX/flow to connect apps to s3-style storage (enabling
               | folks to use AWS/DO/Backblaze/whatever?) or would that be
               | too raw?
        
               | Avamander wrote:
               | You're most likely correct about automatic
               | synchronisation from filesystem like that. That though
               | doesn't mean there can't be any built-in integration with
               | Next/OwnCloud or simply manual export-import.
        
             | maeln wrote:
             | Aegis is another open-source option. It can import the
             | andOTP format and can also export the keys, but has the
             | advantage of being able to use fingerprint unlock.
        
               | jabroni_salad wrote:
               | I also like that Aegis has folders so I can separate my
               | work and personal stuff. Most of the others are just a
               | flat list.
        
               | thomc wrote:
               | AndOTP can use your fingerprint as well.
               | Settings->Authentication->Device Credentials
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | The phone number gets used during account recovery; when I
           | reset my iPhone once without a second Authy device to
           | activate it, I was locked out for 24h while it bombarded my
           | number with calls and texts about the impending restore. I
           | appreciated that safety measure.
        
             | stoplying1 wrote:
             | And I don't appreciate being forced into a "feature" that
             | specifically subverts the entire god damn point of 2FA
             | codes and leaves them in an unprotected state on some third
             | party server.
             | 
             | Great!
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | It is, indeed, great to have choices.
               | 
               | (Side note: Authy backups are encrypted client-side with
               | the user's backup password. They're not unprotected on a
               | third-party server; Authy has no ability to decrypt them.
               | https://authy.com/blog/how-the-authy-two-factor-backups-
               | work...)
        
               | stoplying1 wrote:
               | I apologize for getting that wrong and also want to
               | acknowledge that choice IS good, and I do agree that
               | informed users can reasonably make that decision. I get a
               | bit too "there's one best/right answer" on this topic,
               | thanks for checking me a bit.
        
               | _dongle_aster_ wrote:
               | The TOTP secrets are encrypted with a passprhase locally.
               | You need the phone number to download the encrypted
               | secrets but then need to use your passphrase to decrypt
               | the restored backup locally.
        
       | yunruse wrote:
       | The concept of programming a dumb watch is rather appealing; this
       | project looks like one that's both practical and quite fun to
       | work on.
       | 
       | It would be rather neat to have a dumb watch that can take in
       | custom embedded code (say Lua) for people who enjoy hacking but
       | are terrible at hardware. I'd buy one day one!
        
       | yellow_lead wrote:
       | How accurate does the time have to be for TOTP to work? If the
       | watch drifts a bit, will it no longer work? Compared to your
       | phone which is synced with an NTP server.
        
         | VTimofeenko wrote:
         | The key lifetime may be other than the default 30 seconds, and
         | IIRC the validator side may be configured to accept keys from N
         | previous generations.
        
         | petesergeant wrote:
         | Up to the authenticating service
        
         | joshxyz wrote:
         | up to the service. some services allow up to 2 windows.
        
           | himlion wrote:
           | AWS asks you to sync by inputting subsequent codes if it
           | detects keys from the wrong time window.
        
       | samcat116 wrote:
       | This is super cool but do folks really need their google and
       | GitHub 2FA codes often enough to justify this? Browser sessions
       | are pretty durable it seems. The one thing I could think of is
       | GitHub admin type actions that prompt for a credential to enter
       | "sudo" mode or whatever they call it. However in that case
       | they'll take your password as well (or a webauthn key in my case)
        
         | teaearlgraycold wrote:
         | I have everything in 1P. No need for a physical device.
        
           | MartinCron wrote:
           | I always thought that the benefit of the physical device was
           | that it was decoupled from the main device. If someone steals
           | my laptop, for example, they won't be able to access my MFA
           | secured accounts unless they ALSO steal my phone (and are
           | unable to lock it).
        
             | cyphar wrote:
             | Sure, but if your threat model is that the attacker has
             | enough access to your machine to extract your password
             | manager's database, they can also just copy your session
             | cookies from your existing browser session. Even in the
             | case of password leaks, if someone breaches the password
             | database of a website they can just as easily dump the TOTP
             | table.
             | 
             | Personally my view is that (if you're using a password
             | manager with a unique password per-site) 2FA primarily
             | protects you when you have to input your password on an
             | untrusted system that may have a keylogger. In that case it
             | doesn't really matter where you store the TOTP key
             | (presumably you're not going to unlock your password
             | database on that machine).
             | 
             | To be fair, in the case of a security bug in the password
             | manager (such as the few previous LastPass bugs in this
             | vein), you are slightly more protected. But I use KeePassXC
             | which has a far more segregated design so I'm not as
             | worried about this as I would be if I was using a password
             | manager entirely integrated into the browser (either built-
             | in or an extension).
             | 
             | (Though these days I primarily use U2F/WebAuthn if the site
             | supports it.)
        
         | edent wrote:
         | I use systems which require a 2FA code every day, or whenever a
         | destructive action takes place.
         | 
         | So this is certainly useful for some people.
        
         | m-p-3 wrote:
         | It saved me a trip back to my desk a few times when I had to
         | sign in to an account protected by 2FA on another computer and
         | I forgot to bring my phone along.
        
         | abawany wrote:
         | Also, some sites, such as Fidelity, now require the 2fa
         | password on every login regardless of browser trust status.
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | Some folks don't use browser sessions.
         | 
         | I log out of everything every day.
        
         | bdcravens wrote:
         | Some sites prompt more frequently (for example, AWS)
        
       | kamranjon wrote:
       | This is very cool, I just recently ordered a light phone 2 (a
       | dumb phone) - and one of the things I am currently trying to
       | solve is how I am going to access my google authentication codes
       | for various work and personal project related accounts. Something
       | like this would be very awesome, but also this post really
       | demystifies how this type of auth works.
        
         | tejado wrote:
         | Maybe Authorizer is something you will like:
         | https://github.com/tejado/Authorizer
        
       | mkesper wrote:
       | Please do not paste your secrets into any website as proposed
       | here for conversion.
        
         | cyanawesome wrote:
         | Seriously, the QR is just a URI that any QR reader can decode
         | (preferably one you trust).
         | 
         | https://github.com/google/google-authenticator/wiki/Key-Uri-...
        
           | monocasa wrote:
           | And not just that, but TOTP isn't based on public/private
           | crypto, but instead a shared secret embedded in plaintext in
           | that URI.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | jcpst wrote:
       | I have been wearing the F-91 every day for a long time. It's such
       | a classic piece, and the only digital watch that really appealed
       | to me.
       | 
       | I'm quite excited at the idea of taking one my old ones and
       | giving it new functionality.
        
       | jazzyjackson wrote:
       | I didn't see anything on the site about where to get one, so
       | here's the link to their crowd supply, 36$ for the board.
       | 
       | https://www.crowdsupply.com/oddly-specific-objects/sensor-wa...
        
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       (page generated 2022-10-18 23:02 UTC)