[HN Gopher] Alpine Linux Minimalist Desktop
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       Alpine Linux Minimalist Desktop
        
       Author : clay-dreidels
       Score  : 54 points
       Date   : 2022-10-17 16:43 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | piaste wrote:
       | Strange choice. There's no shortage of minimalist desktop-
       | oriented distros out there. Even if you specifically want a musl-
       | based distros, Void Linux has a minimal base image which is
       | probably a better starting point.
       | 
       | I don't see much advantage in forcing an embedded/VM-oriented
       | distro to do desktop work - how much fun are you going to have
       | with device drivers, for example?
       | 
       | The only reason I can see to use Alpine specifically is to test
       | on a system that's as close to production servers as possible.
       | But that's what VMs are for.
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | > Strange choice. There's no shortage of minimalist desktop-
         | oriented distros out there. Even if you specifically want a
         | musl-based distros, Void Linux has a minimal base image which
         | is probably a better starting point.
         | 
         | Why not? Alpine is a perfectly good distro.
         | 
         | > I don't see much advantage in forcing an embedded/VM-oriented
         | distro to do desktop work - how much fun are you going to have
         | with device drivers, for example?
         | 
         | What? Alpine is a Linux distro; it has the same drivers as
         | everything else. And it packages desktop stuff just fine; I've
         | never had a problem using it.
         | 
         | EDIT: I should qualify "never" - I've had less trouble using
         | Alpine as a desktop than Void, let's say. Some programs aren't
         | portable enough to handle musl, but that's a different issue.
        
         | moffkalast wrote:
         | Linux devs: "I've got it, let's make another minimalistic GUI
         | that doesn't have enough functionality for daily use."
         | 
         | Also Linux devs: "Wait, why is nobody using Linux on desktop?"
         | 
         | Half kidding since those lightweights do have use cases, but on
         | the other hand KDE only barely gets close to the levels of
         | functionality and customization that Windows offers and it's
         | about the heaviest display manager out there. Meanwhile Gnome
         | is both slow and just about completely hardcoded hah.
        
           | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
           | > Linux devs: "I've got it, let's make another minimalistic
           | GUI that doesn't have enough functionality for daily use."
           | 
           | As a person daily-driving it, I promise it does in fact have
           | enough functionality for daily use. And are you sure those
           | are the same people? My impression is that there are two
           | groups; minimalist hackers who want an ultra-light system and
           | build that, and people who want a system that's easy to use
           | for the masses and build that (KDE, GNOME, XFCE). And because
           | it's FOSS and mostly unpaid, people work individually on the
           | things that they directly value, hence the wide range of
           | options.
        
           | doubled112 wrote:
           | Agreed. We don't need more desktops, we should improve the
           | ones we have.
           | 
           | Speaking of improvements, if you haven't tried KDE in a
           | while, it has become considerably lighter in recent years. It
           | is quite a bit snappier as well.
           | 
           | Skipping the indexing features, it gets pretty close to Xfce,
           | MATE and LXDE in resource usage.
        
             | moffkalast wrote:
             | I'm actually running KUbuntu 20.04 on one of my machines
             | right now and it's honestly really good (outside some
             | occasional annoying shit that'll be ironed out eventually I
             | hope), but I'm running it from an SSD with fairly decent
             | hardware so it's hard to say anything about performance.
        
               | doubled112 wrote:
               | I tried OpenSUSE Tumbleweed a couple weeks back on a
               | Raspberry Pi 4 and found the experience tolerable.
               | 
               | Of course, tolerable is a subjective term.
        
               | moffkalast wrote:
               | This reminds me, someone needs to make an open source
               | remake of Among Us and call it OpenSUS
        
           | pmontra wrote:
           | Sometimes we don't need a desktop for daily use. Example: I'm
           | considering a minimal desktop to just run VLC on a file
           | server and display videos to my TV.
        
             | anthk wrote:
             | Just run XBMC from Lightdm in any OS.
        
             | warent wrote:
             | Why not just run a media sever like Emby and stream the
             | videos directly?
        
               | xupybd wrote:
               | To me it seems that the simpler option is to run VLC
               | directly connected to the tv. Streaming is seamless now
               | and Emby makes it easy but why have all that complexity
               | involved when you can just play in VLC and get a better
               | quality video?
        
               | warent wrote:
               | sorry my brain read "VLC" as "VNC" and I was thinking you
               | were watching videos over remote desktop LOL
        
       | yamtaddle wrote:
       | Could turn this entirely into a shell script per reboot with
       | "expect", I... uh, expect. Or just one shell script with a little
       | more cleverness (to initiate the next phase after each reboot,
       | automatically).
       | 
       | ... though I'm not sure whether "expect" is in base Alpine, or
       | you'd have to install it, defeating most of the purpose.
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | > ... though I'm not sure whether "expect" is in base Alpine,
         | or you'd have to install it, defeating most of the purpose.
         | 
         | It's not on the default system if that's what you mean, but
         | it's packaged as
         | https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/package/v3.16/main/x86_64/expec...
         | so you could at least install it partway in and rerun that way.
         | 
         | Depending on the goal you might be better off using
         | https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Alpine_local_backup to save
         | the system.
        
       | mackatsol wrote:
       | I've never heard of it. Can you provide some details on what it's
       | about? Why you chose it.. and so on?
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | Alpine? It's tiny
        
       | emptypuru wrote:
       | Been using alpine for a year as my daily driver. Initially
       | switched from Arch to better understand postmarketos, but found
       | alpine very pleasant and stayed with it. With alpine it feels
       | easier to understand how a distro works due to minimality. Also
       | it's easier to jump into sources of little busybox utils rather
       | than their full-blown util-linux/coreutils/systemd counterparts.
       | And apk is faster than pacman.
        
       | nathants wrote:
       | i've been running alpine on two thinkpads for almost six months.
       | it's fantastic. was previously on arch, and ubuntu before that.
       | 
       | i had no idea alpine ships setup-* scripts. there are so many of
       | them and they are so good!
       | 
       | postmarketos is alpine, so you can run the same distro on mobile
       | and desktop.
       | 
       | they support arm64, unlike arch.
       | 
       | they ship ec2 amis, and rewrote cloudinit and made it way better.
       | 
       | it feels like alpine minimalism just enables them to get a much
       | more polished setup. things like solid setup scripts or cloud
       | init scripts. they are good, because obviously they should be.
        
         | rahen wrote:
         | Try it on servers as well. If something doesn't work as it
         | should, just run it in a CentOS/Ubuntu container.
         | 
         | It usually works better than doing the opposite (CentOS/Ubuntu
         | server running Alpine containers).
        
           | nathants wrote:
           | agree! that alpine ships ec2 amis is one of the reasons that
           | i moved to alpine. have had no issues so far.
        
       | usbfingers wrote:
       | The cool part about using Alpine as a minimalist desktop is you
       | can run the entire system from RAM - assuming you're running in
       | diskless mode.
       | 
       | I've showed people my Alpine desktop setup _on their own laptop_
       | by booting from a USB. After booting, I unplug the USB, continue
       | running the distro, and then restarting their machine as if
       | nothing ever happened. Lots of cool factor driving motivation
       | there, but I agree it's not as easy to use nor maintainable for
       | most people.
       | 
       | Also if your workstation dies, just toggle BIOS settings - if
       | needed - and boot on another machine. No swapping / migrating
       | drives required. Works amazingly if you're used to running on
       | crap / dated hardware.
        
       | Scarbutt wrote:
       | The blockers are always going to be with musl
        
         | MisterTea wrote:
         | You can always chroot. Similar to how I run steam on my Void
         | musl machine via flatpak.
        
           | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
           | Or docker or podman, if that's your preference.
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | Sometimes, but it Just Works often enough. Depends on your
         | usecase.
        
       | mro_name wrote:
       | anyone seen it on an asus x205ta (32 bit BIOS, sigh)?
        
       | clay-dreidels wrote:
       | I've been running this setup for a year.
        
         | stock_toaster wrote:
         | I've been using alpine with kde-plasma[1] for a little while
         | now. Mostly works great!
         | 
         | [1]: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/KDE
        
           | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
           | I use Alpine with XFCE on my laptop. Non-musl apps work ok in
           | flatpak. Biggest annoyance is when I install a new Alpine
           | package and it (for reasons I can't fathom) uninstalls my
           | wifi packages so I have to grab an ethernet cable and
           | reinstall everything. There's also a bug seg-faulting my X
           | server when I scroll too much on my touchpad, but if I'm
           | gentle it doesn't crash.
        
             | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
             | > Biggest annoyance is when I install a new Alpine package
             | and it (for reasons I can't fathom) uninstalls my wifi
             | packages so I have to grab an ethernet cable and reinstall
             | everything.
             | 
             | What happens if you run with `apk add -i`? That's a weird
             | bug.
        
       | ithrow wrote:
       | Why is alpine so popular for VMs/containers when popular runtimes
       | like the JVM or nodejs don't officially support musl?
        
         | josephcsible wrote:
         | Because it makes really tiny images, and most stuff does work
         | even if it's not officially supported.
        
           | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
           | And if you need to use something non-musl compatible, you
           | just make a container with a different base OS.
        
         | NegativeLatency wrote:
         | My last job we actually switched away from it because of bugs
         | and went back to Ubuntu for container base images
        
         | LinuxBender wrote:
         | Adding to what josephcsible said, not just tiny but also super
         | simple. I use Alpine on all my routers/firewalls/VM's/physical
         | servers for personal use. I've been very happy with it thus
         | far. Simple upgrades. Easy to debug. All the packages I use
         | appear to be compiled with decent hardening options. The LTS
         | kernel is just a few days behind kernel.org.
         | 
         | I've not tried to use it as a desktop. I alternate between Void
         | and QubesOS for desktops.
        
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       (page generated 2022-10-17 23:02 UTC)