[HN Gopher] Codeberg: A GitHub alternative from Europe
___________________________________________________________________
Codeberg: A GitHub alternative from Europe
Author : rukshn
Score : 285 points
Date : 2022-10-17 13:43 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (ruky.me)
(TXT) w3m dump (ruky.me)
| ViceCitySage wrote:
| its pretty much a modified instance of Gitea with a small,
| privacy-friendly German Gmhb behind it. Still like it a lot. Wish
| more developers at the very least set up mirrors on either
| Codeberg or Sourcehut.
| riedel wrote:
| On the web site it says that they are a non profit association
| (e.V.)
| j_san wrote:
| The privacy policy is not compliant from what I see. I still love
| the mission but it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth - if one
| makes privacy a marketing point then at least the privacy policy
| should be compliant.
|
| One example missing in the privacy policy is information
| regarding "the existence of the right to request from the
| controller access to and rectification or erasure of personal
| data or restriction of processing concerning the data subject or
| to object to processing as well as the right to data
| portability;" There is more stuff that should be included, see:
| https://gdpr-info.eu/art-13-gdpr/.
|
| (Technically it doesn't have to be in the privacy policy document
| but could be provided in some other kind of document. I guess
| thats not done though.)
| btdmaster wrote:
| Consider filing an issue in https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/org.
| I had an data protection issue earlier and emailed them (from
| Impressum) and they dealt with it really well.
| j_san wrote:
| I just wrote them an email:)
| [deleted]
| oever wrote:
| > However, you won't be getting the advanced features like
| automation or other integration and collaboration features
| provided by GitHub.
|
| Codeberg is working on CI and you can request early access. I've
| found it to work well and fast.
|
| https://codeberg.org/Codeberg-CI
| proxysna wrote:
| Nice to Woodpecker CI getting some traction. Great software for
| selfhosted ci. Simpler to start than Jenkins, not as flexible
| ofc, but most projects do not require that amount of
| flexibility and footguns. Woodpecker one of the best tools for
| small/medium self-hosted CI's out there atm.
| remram wrote:
| I just took one look, I had never heard of it before, and...
| it's depending on the serialization order of steps in the
| YAML to run pipelines?! What fresh hell is this?
|
| Loading the YAML file in a language where
| dictionaries/hashmaps don't preserve the insertion order and
| serializing again will break your file? How could they fail
| at such a basic step of making a YAML-configurable CI system?
|
| This is the worst abuse of YAML I have ever seen. Was putting
| `-` in front of each step too obvious?
| proxysna wrote:
| I despise yaml as much as the other guy, but it works here
| well enough for what it does.
|
| > This is the worst abuse of YAML
|
| When was the last time you looked at k8s manifests?
| remram wrote:
| I use Helm weekly and this is worse.
| hnlmorg wrote:
| From what I've seen, the config uses dictionaries for
| concurrent pipelines. Sequential commands are in an array
| (ie hyphen prefixed).
|
| Plus it's a bit late to hate on YAML for CI config since
| it's already being used by most services, such as:
| - Concource - Travis - CircleCi - GitHub
| Actions - Gitlab - AWS CodeBuild
|
| ...not to mention a crap load of other orchestration
| services from docker-compose to k8s to CloudFormation.
|
| Like it or not, the YAML-train left the station _years_
| ago. So Woodpecker isn't doing anything here this isn't
| already an established industry norm.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| Ooh yes it's the Drone clone! I haven't used Woodpecker, but
| Drone is fantastic. Can't wait to use this next time I need a
| self-hosted CI.
| 3np wrote:
| Not really clone. It's a fork from the last commit under a
| free license, after which Drone changed theirs.
| mathstuf wrote:
| Is it just me or does this seem to only support Linux and leave
| all other platforms out to dry?
| pjmlp wrote:
| In the event of things going nasty with export regulations,
| it appears we are left with FOSS UNIX clones, and ISO/ECMA
| based programming languages, or those independent from
| corporate stewardship.
| vanviegen wrote:
| I'd guess Linux is the most important platform for most
| customers. Also, it's probably the easiest and least
| expensive platform to support. I'd be very surprised if
| they'd picked another platform to support in their initial
| release of this feature.
| mathstuf wrote:
| The "every job uses a Docker container" is what worries me.
| Because the other two certainly don't have a robust
| container mechanism. Sure, Windows has something, but it is
| a far cry from "pick a distro, install some stuff, and call
| it a day" because there's some blessed image that supports
| installing .NET stuff and if you don't base on that, you're
| SoL (at least last I checked). And that's even ignoring the
| lack of rendering if you need it or the filesystem
| performance hit they seemed to be plagued with.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| The underlying tech (Woodpecker) supports running tasks on
| Linux, MacOS, and Windows. It seems like they are still just
| in the testing phase, maybe they need a customer to run
| builds on all 3.
| mathstuf wrote:
| I don't see any docs about that. How is the `image` value
| used on macOS and expected to contain some usable macOS
| filesystem layout? Are you expected to SSH to a machine
| running the target platform from a Docker container and run
| the commands that way?
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| Yeah the docs are lacking. The way Woodpecker works is,
| there is a _Server_ , that is sort of the "manager"; you
| only run one of these. You run one _Agent_ on each host
| that you want builds to happen on. The _Agent_ then
| executes the steps of your _Pipeline_ on a "platform",
| which is an _Agent_ running on a particular OS.
|
| By default an _Agent_ just wants to execute jobs in a
| Docker container, using the _docker_ backend. But there
| are multiple backends. To run a build on Windows /MacOS,
| you would download the Go binary for the _Agent_ for that
| platform, and execute it with the right environment
| variables to specify the _local_ backend.
|
| I think a lot of this functionality is just now getting
| added to Woodpecker so it's not been documented. It's
| been in Drone for a long time, but the fork is from a
| while ago.
|
| https://woodpecker-ci.org/docs/administration/setup
| https://woodpecker-ci.org/docs/administration/agent-
| config https://woodpecker-ci.org/docs/usage/pipeline-
| syntax#platfor... https://github.com/woodpecker-
| ci/woodpecker/tree/master/pipe...
| mistrial9 wrote:
| here in the USA, Apple and Microsoft repeatedly lock out
| Linux|*nix from interoperability, marketing, transparency and
| more .. Linux Foundation appears to be a marketing club for
| Fortune 500.. where is this perspective ? You developers must
| include proprietary duopoly in any "open" effort but wait at
| the back door until I return and tell you what I want to ?
| pokstad wrote:
| There's already a GitHub alternative from Europe: GitLab. The
| founders are Dutch and Ukrainian.
| fragile_frogs wrote:
| While the founders are from Europe, GitLab is a US company [1]
| and the SaaS offering is based in the US [2].
|
| [1] https://about.gitlab.com/blog/2015/07/01/operating-as-
| gitlab...
|
| [2]
| https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/engineering/infrastructure...
| guerrilla wrote:
| GitLab isn't open-source, just open-core.
| bornfreddy wrote:
| It is also not hosted in EU, afaik, wherever the founders are
| from.
| hk__2 wrote:
| Btw does anyone understand Gitlab's pricing? Their cheapest
| offer ($228/user/year) is almost as expensive as GitHub's _most
| expensive_ offer ($252 /user/year). We are a team of 5 using
| Gitlab.com, but when we'll grow to 6 we'll have to go from $0
| to $120/mo in order to continue using it. I've heard bad
| stories about self-hosted Gitlab and I wouldn't like to have
| yet another internal service to maintain.
| brabel wrote:
| Shame that they don't seem to support the European Self-Sovereign
| Identity Framework for registration: https://essif-lab.eu/
|
| I am really hoping that this will take off and soon all Europeans
| will be able to prove they have the right to get services without
| having to reveal their full identity... and I think this is a
| great framework for registration to services like this as well.
| jeroenhd wrote:
| The premise looks very interesting but I can't tell if this
| exists or if it's a call for contributions for a broad idea.
| Based on the home page I'd assume this system is not net
| implemented, let alone functional.
|
| Pages are either full of calls for projects or buzzwords for
| existing projects.
|
| I think I've found the page containing implementation details
| but it all seems to be crypto/blockchain stuff. Disappointing,
| was hoping for something better.
| RamblingCTO wrote:
| This will probably be a corporate-circlejerc like GAIA-X again.
| The website is just bad at explaining what's going on. It reads
| like an academic paper and is not user friendly at all. Do you
| have any experience with that?
| jeroenhd wrote:
| Looks like a bunch of cryptocurrency/blockchain people
| scooping up government funds: https://essif-
| lab.github.io/framework/docs/ssi-standards
|
| This could be the real start of web3, but I'm pessimistic
| about the way most of the homepage is talking about funding
| more than about the problem being solved. The rest reads like
| a whitepaper.
|
| Maybe blockchains are the right technology here (though I
| doubt it) but the people writing the documentation were the
| wrong people for the job.
| kubota wrote:
| This is very interesting - I'd bet you'd get to the front page
| of hackernews by sharing this link with us as its own post.
| sangnoir wrote:
| I'd like to plug self-hosting via Gitea. I have it running on a
| Raspberry Pi Zero(!) and it works really well[0]. I no longer
| star projects on GitHub: instead, I mirror them onto my Gitea
| server which periodically syncs in changes with a cadence of my
| choosing[1]. If a project I depend on ever gets deleted from
| GitHub, I'll have a reasonably up-to-date copy.
|
| If you have a Pi in a drawer somewhere, or an underutilized 512MB
| VPS, using it to self-host a Gitea instance is worthwhile!
|
| 0.Using SQLite as the data store.
|
| 1. Alternatively, you can use your Gitea instance as the primary,
| and have it _push_ changes to other git servers like GitHub or
| Gitlab
| FpUser wrote:
| I use Gitea for self hosting
| pfix wrote:
| > Obsidian does not offer free syncing between devices and you
| will have to manually set up a method to sync your notes, either
| by using something like Dropbox, Google Drive, or Git.
|
| Obsidian does not offer _free_ syncing, but it does offer it:
| https://obsidian.md/sync
|
| It's not cheap though and it's not europe-based. But it's a way
| to support the development.
| strenholme wrote:
| Here is a list of free Git hosting services for open source
| software:
|
| * https://github.com/
|
| * https://gitlab.com/
|
| * https://bitbucket.org/
|
| * https://codeberg.org/ (As per the linked article)
|
| * https://sr.ht/ (Sourcehut)
|
| Codeberg and Sourcehut appear to use open source code for their
| web page backend; the others seem to use proprietary software (in
| the case of GitLab, there _is_ a free version, but gitlab.com
| also uses non-free software).
|
| Sourcehut says they may some day charge people to host open
| source software on their server, but right now it's a free beer
| service (but, yes, I have donated) using Free (libre) software.
|
| Souceforge also has a proprietary free-to-use for open source Git
| hosting service, but their service is a little buggy so I would
| use one (or in my case, all) of the five I have listed.
|
| If there are any others, please let us know.
|
| In terms of continuous integration, in my particular use case,
| the automated CI tests take about an hour to all run, so I have a
| Raspberry Pi server the size of a deck of cards which runs Ubuntu
| 22.04. The server uses a crontab which checks to see if the Git
| repo has been updated once a day, and runs the tests inside a
| Docker container if the repo has changed. Some problems, such as
| automated testing, don't need to be solved by putting everything
| in a cloud.
| Blackthorn wrote:
| I no longer trust bitbucket after they shut down their
| mercurial support. That was the thing that differentiated them
| from everyone else. Why even use them now?
| NexRebular wrote:
| I wonder if there even is public mercurial hosting available
| anymore. This git monoculture is starting to be a bit
| annoying.
| StevePerkins wrote:
| To be fair, hardly anyone ever used Bitbucket due to
| Mercurial support.
|
| Some people probably used it because for awhile, pre-GitLab,
| it was the GitHub alternative with the most generous free
| tier for private repos.
|
| However, the overwhelming majority of users probably use it
| because they're already in the Atlassian ecosystem due to
| JIRA.
| DoctorDabadedoo wrote:
| Bitbucket is like an ex girlfriend you don't quite recall
| why you broke up with, but afterwards every time you meet
| her and hear her voice it all comes back in a rush how
| disgusted she made you feel.
| gnramires wrote:
| Please keep in mind codeberg runs on donations (like mine :) ).
| If you join and have resources, consider donating (they're on
| LiberaPay). Their finances seem healthy and sustainable for
| now.
|
| https://liberapay.com/codeberg/
| medoc wrote:
| There is also framagit: https://framagit.org/public/projects
| which is a Gitlab instance run by a French non-profit,
| Framasoft: https://framasoft.org/en/ I host my project there,
| no issues.
| jszymborski wrote:
| I have a lot of love for framasoft, but beware that they have
| limited resources and have in the past closed down or
| geofenced services I was relying on.
|
| I think Codeberg's co-op style governance/funding makes a lot
| of sense w.r.t sustainability.
|
| A reminder that Framasoft's a worthy cause to donate to if
| you are looking for causes to support!
| melony wrote:
| If you are a fan of Java, there's OneDev
|
| https://github.com/theonedev/onedev
|
| https://code.onedev.io/projects/160
| gdrift wrote:
| And also GitBlit
|
| https://gitblit.github.io/gitblit/
| capableweb wrote:
| Worth noting as well, from the list of various hosting
| services, Codeberg is the only one explicitly for FOSS software
| and not for proprietary software. Sourcehut seems to be in the
| box of everything for running the service is FOSS but they
| would be OK with hosting non-FOSS software, whereas Codeberg
| isn't for hosting proprietary software at all.
|
| From the FAQ (https://docs.codeberg.org/getting-
| started/faq/#is-it-allowed...):
|
| > Is it allowed to host non-free software?
|
| > Our mission is to support the creation and development of
| Free Software; therefore we only allow repos licensed under an
| OSI/FSF-approved license. For more details see Licensing
| article. However, we sometimes tolerate repositories that
| aren't perfectly licensed and focus on spreading awareness on
| the topic of improper FLOSS licensing and its issues.
|
| > Can I host private (non-licensed) repositories?
|
| > Codeberg is intended for free and open source content. [...]
| alexwennerberg wrote:
| There was a discussion on sourcehut about making this change
| to their TOS, not sure what happened with it though
|
| https://lists.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/sr.ht-
| discuss/%3CC32T7UNXIK7O....
| sva_ wrote:
| > gitlab
|
| Pretty sure GitLab is open source.
| TAForObvReasons wrote:
| GitLab is a nuanced situation.
|
| There is a FOSS GitLab https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-
| foss
|
| The hosted gitlab.com instance uses EE features so parent is
| correct to say that the gitlab.com site is not open source.
| hk__2 wrote:
| > The hosted gitlab.com instance uses EE features so parent
| is correct to say that the gitlab.com site is not open
| source.
|
| It's OSS but with proprietary parts. That's the issue with
| the term "open-source": their source code is indeed open
| [1] but it's not 100% free (as in freedom).
|
| Edit: mmh apparently I'm mistaken; according to another
| commenter this is called "open-core" and not "open-source"
| [2].
|
| [1]: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab
|
| [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33237641
| CameronNemo wrote:
| Another term you might be looking for is "source
| available", meaning you can read the source code but not
| modify or distribute it without a license.
| TAForObvReasons wrote:
| Codeberg source https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/gitea
|
| Codeberg is a fork of Gitea https://github.com/go-gitea/gitea
| which curiously uses GitHub for hosting.
| hk1337 wrote:
| Didn't even change the readme, it seems.
|
| *EDIT* https://codeberg.org/
|
| I'm guessing they're just maintaining their own copy and
| Codeberg is more about the service rather than being another
| git hosting project.
| JanMa wrote:
| Keybase also has support for hosting Git repos:
| https://book.keybase.io/git
| hk1337 wrote:
| I used to use Keybase for my dotfiles repo but I thought
| Keybase was on their way out since being bought?
| mdaniel wrote:
| I'd exercise caution building on top of it since I don't
| think Zoom cares about Keybase and I was unable to find any
| server among their repositories
| (https://github.com/orgs/keybase/repositories) such that one
| could self-host after Zoom bores of running the Keybase infra
| psychoslave wrote:
| https://www.tuxfamily.org/
| User23 wrote:
| Let's not forget https://savannah.gnu.org/.
| sylware wrote:
| Wait, most if not all are not noscript/basic (x)html friendly,
| what codeberg seems to be. Ok, github.com has most of its
| critical functions (microsoft has managed not to f*ck it up...
| yet) working with a noscript/basic (x)html browser, gitlab and
| bitbucket, not even possible to create an account, and if I
| recall properly, neither for sourcehut.
|
| There are other git services which are noscript/basic (x)html
| friendly from the ground up, and EU based, but much less
| popular.
| Munksgaard wrote:
| I... don't think that's true of Sourcehut? Drew has certainly
| argued for the fact that websites should be usable without
| Javascript, so it would surprise me if Sourcehut didn't
| follow the same standards.
| sylware wrote:
| I should test, but isn't there a javascript only captcha at
| account creation?
|
| A few years ago, captchas were long to go thru but at least
| without that horrible javascript.
| jpe90 wrote:
| I tried out self hosting on my $5/mo VPS and found it much
| easier than expected. https://jeskin.net/blog/self-hosting-git-
| with-stagit/
| giobox wrote:
| Can't you just run gitlab or whatever else out of a container
| in 5 seconds nowadays? Map a single volume and you are likely
| done. Its not that it's hard to self host that I choose to
| use third party git services (its clearly not!), it's just
| that the benefits of self hosting a git repository are
| increasingly few unless you have strict security requirements
| etc etc, and the free options are so good now. Running self
| hosted git is _trivial_ in 2022 if you really need to, with
| many one-line container deployment options to choose from.
|
| > https://registry.hub.docker.com/r/gitlab/gitlab-ce/
|
| While it might be fun to self-host, a 5 dollar a month fee to
| run it is also not price competitive with the free or _paid_
| individual tiers at github.com for a single user too. I 'd
| probably only do this if the git repo was being hosted on my
| home LAN.
|
| > https://github.com/pricing
| mro_name wrote:
| no, it's too bloaty to run it longer than the mentioned 5
| seconds in good faith to not deplete the biosphere with
| bloat like that.
| emilengler wrote:
| But why? If you have an SSH server running, you can
| immediately setup a git server. Just do git init ---bare,
| no gigantic web server overhead.
|
| https://rgz.ee/git.html
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| Presumably people value the UI (also, what is the
| "gigantic web server overhead" you're referring to?).
| megous wrote:
| Ever tried to install gitlab? It's like 1GiB _compressed_
| package. lol
| slow_typist wrote:
| Yeah you could even use recent ssh clients if you leave
| gitea, which is written in go, out of the equation:
|
| https://github.com/go-gitea/gitea/issues/17798
| bee_rider wrote:
| It is easy to give people read-only git access no SSH, if
| you want to share your code with the internet at large?
| jpe90 wrote:
| If you add a git-daemon-export-ok file to the repo, it's
| accessible read-only over the git protocol. That's how
| all my repos on https://git.jeskin.net are setup.
|
| https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-on-the-Server-The-
| Protoco...
| nine_k wrote:
| Gitlab has a nice GUI, team features, and CI/CD
| integration. It's a reasonable choice for a team.
|
| I also remember the there were tools that use Git as a
| backend for a change review system, and for an issue-
| tracking system (much like the stuff which Fossil has
| integrated).
|
| With that, you theoretically don't need a central server
| at all, as long as you can send patches to each other. In
| practice, a central server is an important convenience
| that helps keep the history synchronized between several
| developers.
| jpe90 wrote:
| Yeah I'm sure you could. I use that VPS for my blog and
| personal projects also so I wanted to keep resource
| utilization to a minimum and not administer a webapp.
| severino wrote:
| Gitee (gitee.com) is also a free hosting service that can be
| used for OSS, afaik.
| RobotToaster wrote:
| Fun fact, they're literally backed by the Chinese government
| who are trying to promote open source, I assume because it
| can't be embargoed.
|
| On the bright side I suppose that means they shouldn't have
| any of those pesky commercial pressures to start charging
| people.
|
| I don't think I need to say what the down sides are.
| FpUser wrote:
| >"Fun fact, they're literally backed by the Chinese
| government who are trying to promote open source, I assume
| because it can't be embargoed."
|
| And then the feds come for you for breaking some of those
| US sanctions you had no idea about.
| mistrial9 wrote:
| China-based
| severino wrote:
| I know, but not all of the alternatives noted by the parent
| post are hosted in Europe, either. Some are US based, and
| it doesn't mean your project can't be subject to
| censorship.
| bauruine wrote:
| Which is a Chinese site hosted behind the GFW. I can't even
| access the site because they block my IP address. I really
| hope OSS projects don't consider them for their hosting.
| severino wrote:
| I guess it's the same stuff developers from other countries
| like Iran, Syria, etc., face when trying to work with
| Github. It's a shame many OSS projects find providers like
| these OK when there should be plenty of alternatives that
| don't block users by country.
| beanaroo wrote:
| Also proprietary and relatively new on the scene:
|
| https://www.jetbrains.com/space/
| ChristianGeek wrote:
| Has anyone tried this yet? It looks promising, especially
| with JetBrains behind it.
| barbariangrunge wrote:
| Sourcehut was nice and minimal last time I used it. Worth
| checking out. Also: the creator has a great blog
| bee_rider wrote:
| I think we should emphasize that Sourcehut is just currently
| free while it is in alpha. Mr. DeVault been very upfront about
| the fact that he's planning to start charging eventually. From
| his FAQ,
|
| https://man.sr.ht/billing-faq.md#why-should-i-pay-when-githu...
|
| The point is to set up a responsible financial situation
| between himself and the users and avoid the bad incentive
| structures that "free" services have ("Free" until VC money
| runs out, at which point it is roll of the dice whether they'll
| be monetized through acquisition, or some annoying scheme).
| kodah wrote:
| Does SourceHut still have an aversion to Kubernetes and
| Docker? Last year I was trying to setup SourceHut on my home
| infra (which is Docker/SystemD based, but was Kubernetes
| based) and I was told I'd be banned if I asked about it, and
| that they don't support that kind of software. Super weird
| interaction from someone I otherwise used to admire.
| dspillett wrote:
| Some Kubernetes and Docker people get somewhat religious
| about it, and rather than taking "I/we don't support that
| and don't have any immediate plans to, but feel free to try
| it yourself" as a valid response will plead, nag, and
| otherwise try to cajole a project's maintainer's to
| reconsider, sometimes being irritatingly persistent and
| calling into question a person's overall intelligence
| because they don't currently want to directly support that
| plumbing. Such discussions can become time-consuming,
| tiresome, and (if _really_ persistent in trying to convert
| them to the cause) difficult to just ignore.
|
| _> be banned if I asked about it_
|
| I assume this means the maintainer(s) have experienced the
| above a few times, and have given up trying to be more
| polite about it!
|
| Don't take it personally. If you want to use a tool with
| that plumbing then feel free to DIY. If you make it work
| well, perhaps publish your process and/or images and
| support it for others who need/want that support.
| js2 wrote:
| This is Drew's position:
|
| https://paste.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/78cc21e1661d5a9d8038f47e532d2
| 8...
| throwup wrote:
| Has ddevault ever commented on how much build minutes will
| cost out of alpha? From their pricing page it seems like a
| fixed monthly cost for unlimited minutes, which doesn't seem
| sustainable to me.
| NeutralForest wrote:
| The guy very SourceHut is very nice and dedicated to the
| project, his blog is also interesting to understand the
| philosophy being SourceHut.
| endgame wrote:
| I've been paying for years, because I agree with these
| principles. It's a good service.
| Funes- wrote:
| I think that makes a whole lot of sense. The actual post
| explains it wonderfully:
|
| >Most other companies are financially supported by venture
| capital, in the form of large investments from a small number
| of people. If you use their services for free, or even if you
| pay the modest fees for their paid plans, they are not
| incentivized to serve your needs first. They are beholden to
| their investors, and at their behest, they may implement
| changes you don't like: invasive tracking, selling your data,
| and so on.
|
| >SourceHut has not accepted, and will never accept, any
| outside investments. Our sole source of revenue is from sr.ht
| users making their account payments. This incentivizes us to
| only consider your needs, and not to use you as a resource to
| be exploited. The financial relationship is much more
| responsible for both parties.
|
| A very commendable stance.
| albert180 wrote:
| Well Codeberg is also just an German association. Everyone
| can become a member and the member dues finance the server
| costs
| jabo wrote:
| Thank you for calling this out! It's great to see more
| products adopt this stance and this is one of the reasons
| we chose to not raise funds for Typesense [1].
|
| From an article I wrote recently on this topic [2]:
|
| > Selling Stock vs Selling Search
|
| One key realization we had is that when we bring on
| investors, we are essentially bringing on a new group of
| customers - customers for whom the product is our company
| stock.
|
| The value this group of customers (investors) gets from the
| product they are buying (stocks) is appreciating stock
| prices. And the way we can keep this group of customers
| happy is by regularly raising the next round of funding
| which is when stock prices appreciate, or having a
| liquidity event to make a return on investment.
|
| We are concerned that "launching" a new "product line"
| (selling stocks) and bringing on a whole new group of
| customers (investors), would cause us to lose our precious
| bandwidth that could have otherwise been spent on our core
| search product that our primary group of users and
| customers expect from us. After all, the "company stock"
| product line would not exist without the core search
| product.
|
| [1] https://typesense.org
|
| [2] https://typesense.org/blog/why-we-are-not-raising-
| funds/
| e12e wrote:
| > Souceforge also has a proprietary free-to-use for open source
| Git hosting service
|
| It's not proprietary?
|
| https://sourceforge.net/create/
|
| > And, as if all of that wasn't enough, the SourceForge
| platform runs on Apache Allura which itself is Open Source!
|
| https://allura.apache.org/
| forgotmypw17 wrote:
| Codeberg recently took down the repository for Wikiless project
| without any explanation to the project.
|
| It was only days after the project maintainer contacted them that
| they wrote something back about an IP complaint from Wikimedia
| foundation.
| Egoist wrote:
| Context: https://orenom.fi
| RamblingCTO wrote:
| Thank you, that's actually very important information. So it
| wasn't taken down, it was just set to private:
|
| > the repository has been made private (only contributors
| will be able to access the repo for now)
|
| Huge difference and imho quite ok until things are clear.
| YetAnotherNick wrote:
| I really don't get why do every org do this. A simple mail
| about the takedown to the owner with few lines explaining the
| situation shouldn't be difficult, and I would say it is the
| best ROI to prevent PR damage like this.
| [deleted]
| aliqot wrote:
| Any service known for not proactively removing content will
| be overburdened as users from other services who submit
| 'complaint-generating' content will flock to your service.
|
| When people who submit these complaints don't feel like you
| acquiesced in their favor they will assemble and call you
| out. Your service will be known as a safe harbor for groups
| of ill repute and eventually you may be forced to shutter the
| service because you're now known as the person enabling
| groups of ill repute.
|
| I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that's the cycle that
| history shows takes place. It seems effective at chilling the
| content in question and the service providers who serve it.
|
| Examples: voat, rumble, Nchan, Nch, parler, the list goes on.
| YetAnotherNick wrote:
| I am not saying don't remove content. I am saying that
| mailing 5 sentence reasoning would just take 5 minutes and
| would save lot of pain specially for complex and effort
| taking content like code repository where the volume of
| removal is likely less than handful per day.
| spookie wrote:
| Wikiless isn't any of that, though?
| kmeisthax wrote:
| In this particular case - at least from the meager scraps
| of information I can gather - Wikiless was taken down on
| trademark infringement concerns, and the creator hasn't had
| the time to do the necessary modifications to properly
| debrand their fork.
|
| The general cycle of "abusive users look for platforms that
| look the other way, while non-abusive users insist on
| platforms that don't" still applies. But the concern is
| less "Nazi[0] bars" and more "The Pirate Bay".
|
| [0] FWIW I do not believe that it is possible to censor a
| Nazi.
| forgotmypw17 wrote:
| a) They just turned the page into a 404, without any
| notice about what had happened to the repo.
|
| b) They did not notify the repo owner, and took several
| days to respond.
|
| c) I realize that it's a relatively new service, and they
| may not have a lot of experience dealing with this type
| of thing
| ipaddr wrote:
| Taking down content immediately based on one party making a
| claim is ripe to be abused. Take down the wrong person and
| masses will gather and call you out as well. This site has
| a question mark after they did this. Just based on that
| information I wouldn't rush to this service because someone
| will have an easier time shutting the project down here
| than elsewhere
| aliqot wrote:
| > Taking down content immediately based on one party
| making a claim is ripe to be abused.
|
| I absolutely agree, and in my opinion we already see this
| with DMCA.
| sandGorgon wrote:
| there is also gitbucket - written in scala on the jvm
|
| https://gitbucket.github.io/
| jeroenhd wrote:
| Kind of ironic to host the website for a (partial) Github
| alternative on Github.io.
|
| Never heard of this before, but I don't think this operates in
| the same space. Codeberg is a hosted platform, Gitbucket is a
| self-hostable platform. I think it competes more with Gitea and
| maybe Gitlab than Codeberg.
| jslaD wrote:
| hit8run wrote:
| At this point why not just use a repo on one's own server and
| have everything under control. No other party involved.
| collegeburner wrote:
| i would have serious concerns about hosting in europe due to hate
| speech laws that are muddy and ripe for abuse. the site doesn't
| have a hate speech policy i can find, is anyone here informed on
| exactly what the ramifications of such laws might be?
| Vanilla0608 wrote:
| You would have serious concerns about that, wouldnt you? Well,
| though luck I guess.
| em-bee wrote:
| i have serious concerns about hosting in the US because US
| companies often remove content or lock out or terminate their
| users/customers for unpredictable reasons. in europe at least i
| can read up on what the law is, and expect that as long as my
| content is lawful, it will not be taken down.
| Brian_K_White wrote:
| Another comment mentioned that they took down wikiless
| without warning or explaination, and then the explaination
| that eventually came later was still not great (complaint
| from wikimedia). It doesn't sound like they are so much
| better on this point.
| em-bee wrote:
| right, things are not perfect, and people make mistakes,
| but that doesn't contradict my claim because it should
| still be possible to object to the takedown and take
| measures to get the host to reinstate the content if the IP
| claim was wrong. in the US, in the same situation there
| might not be a recourse.
| alias_neo wrote:
| I'm not clear (as a European) which part of your code-hosting
| could be risky in this regard?
|
| There's many privacy and other laws that affect myself and my
| neighbours in Europe that concern me, but hate speech has never
| been one of them.
|
| Perhaps wherever you're from you draw lines differently to how
| we do it in Europe, with regards to what is socially and
| morally acceptable to say?
|
| I should add that we also don't have a right to "free speech"
| in the UK as, say, Americans do, and yet it hasn't forced us to
| keep our mouths shut.
| drstewart wrote:
| >Perhaps wherever you're from you draw lines differently to
| how we do it in Europe, with regards to what is socially and
| morally acceptable to say?
|
| Maybe that's why he has serious concerns? Funny how it's
| always valid for Europeans to have concerns about America and
| its differences, but when it's the other way around it's a
| barrage of "How dare you?!" (just look at the responses to
| OPs concerns).
| Vanilla0608 wrote:
| There is no patriot act in Europe, so court of law etc is a
| thing.
| RamblingCTO wrote:
| No, it's more that we Europeans scratch our head as to what
| he wants. The comment reads like a troll post. Why would
| code be nuked for hate speech?
|
| /e: lel, he has been warned by dang already for other
| comments: "Would you please stop the unsubstantive and/or
| flamebait comments?". So we don't need to bother.
| albert180 wrote:
| Well if you are not worshipping Nazis or trying to push
| hate against minorities you shouldn't run into problems.
| But I'm quite sure most other services in the states
| wouldn't tolerate such things too
| arlort wrote:
| I'm intrigued about the kind of code that you're writing that
| would be at risk of being considered hate speech
| sleepyhead wrote:
| Do you have any example of this?
| f1shy wrote:
| I cannot browse projects hosted there without registering? I am
| missing so something?
| capableweb wrote:
| Seems to work perfectly fine for me when logged out?
|
| https://codeberg.org/explore/repos works
|
| https://codeberg.org/ditzes/ditzes works as well
|
| What page exactly doesn't work for you?
| neximo64 wrote:
| Are there any features that make it better?
| btdmaster wrote:
| Cool feature: https://codeberg.page/
| hbn wrote:
| Not really unique/original, Github has static site hosting
| (with the same name, "Pages") too
|
| https://pages.github.com
| xigoi wrote:
| Also:
|
| https://srht.site/
|
| https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/pages/
| beardedman wrote:
| Nowhere else do people mention the continent as much as Europe.
| And, for the life of me, I don't know why this is!? And it always
| seems to mean "we respect your data". Let the product speak for
| itself, I'm not switching from something that works well to
| something that works okay, but respects my privacy a bit more.
| arez wrote:
| It's not so mich about the continent more about the
| jurisdiction, europe has GDPR which seems to do an ok job. You
| don't have to switch to a more privacy focused service but it's
| good that they exist and you can see that more and more of
| those services are popping up, protonmail for mail, duckduckgo
| for search and so on
| moasda wrote:
| The article isn't correct in all arguments:
|
| > However, you won't be getting the advanced features like
| automation or other integration...
|
| Codeberg also has built-in CI support using Woodpecker
| (ci.codeberg.org). It works very well.
|
| > However, if you are interested in a privacy-friendly GitHub
| alternative from Europe, I suggest you check out Codeberg.
|
| Important to know that Codeberg only allows to host projects with
| a FLOSS license. So I wouldn't announce it as a GitHub
| alternative without a further note.
| newswasboring wrote:
| Slightly off topic, but wtf happened to sourceforge? A decade ago
| it was _the_ place to host open source projects. How did they
| lose almost all of the market share to GitHub?
| tiborsaas wrote:
| User experience and design. GitHub was a fresh breath of air
| compared to SF at the time.
| hilyen wrote:
| Github makes money from private repo subscriptions, Sourceforge
| was ad based. Also Github focuses on source code hosting, a lot
| / most Sourceforge projects just hosted the release files to a
| project.
|
| The quality of the site went down hill, even with ads showing
| download buttons trying to trick the user.
| sngz wrote:
| they got caught packaging installers with adware / bloatware.
| Lots of projects / people moved away from it. After the
| backlash they reversed the policy but the damage was done at
| that point already.
|
| https://www.pcworld.com/article/419579/new-sourceforge-owner...
| Lorin wrote:
| The problem is that GitHub is so endemic, and useful for open
| source projects that simply need the traction/eyeballs.
|
| I wish GitHub: - had scoped labels ala. GitLab. Project custom
| fields _almost_ get there but they must be more
| visible/accessible/filterable via 'basic' issue lists. - allowed
| longer label descriptions, they should double the 100 character
| limit - and allow 4-byte Unicode... - had wider milestone scoping
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