[HN Gopher] Beyond the Raw/Pasteurised Divide
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Beyond the Raw/Pasteurised Divide
Author : merrier
Score : 31 points
Date : 2022-10-14 19:56 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (milktrekker.substack.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (milktrekker.substack.com)
| nikolay wrote:
| My kids have been raised on organic raw grass-fed milk widely
| available in California. Also, our eggs are never refrigerated -
| we buy them from farmers' market and they say out even in the
| hottest summer days - no issues so far and they don't wanna drink
| any other milk! The best thing abour raw milk is that it's
| naturally homogenized and they drink true whole milk without any
| complaints!
| ThrowawayTestr wrote:
| There is nothing that raw milk could offer that would make me
| risk drinking it. Cheesemakers should get an exception though.
| BiteCode_dev wrote:
| Used to drink raw milk as a kid when spending holidays at my
| grant aunt village. It was usually still warm.
|
| It's the most delicious and easier to digest milk I ever had. I
| have wonderful memories of it.
| ace2358 wrote:
| That's wild! Where I live In Australia, I have access to a huge
| local farmers market community. Nothing wrong with the raw milk
| I can buy. Actually I have pretty bad intolerance to dairy from
| the super market or heavy processed dairy. But I can say the
| goods at my local dairy farmer.
|
| I buy almost nothing from the shops.
| photochemsyn wrote:
| The microbiology of milk and milk products in certainly complex
| and 'raw vs. pasteurized' is an oversimplification, but
| practically, most people look at milk and cheese with "is this
| safe and healthy to consume" in mind. So when the author says
| this, it avoids that question.
|
| > "There are many factors influencing this ecology which I will
| refrain from getting into further in this piece (teat treatment,
| animal bedding, milking equipment, climate, herd size and health,
| farming practices)."
|
| If all milk was produced by a herd of cows living off the grass
| in some bucolic Swiss canton, with a careful farmer ensuring no
| udder infections etc., well, it wouldn't be a concern.
|
| However, what if the cow was injected with growth hormones to
| double milk output per cow, and then treated with prophylactic
| antibiotics to prevent the resulting udder infections, and locked
| in a stall and fed with alfalfa laced with three different kinds
| of herbicides and pesticides? What happens to milk with trace
| antibiotics when you try to make cheese out of it using microbes?
|
| See this:
|
| "Whole-Genome Sequencing of Drug-Resistant Salmonella enterica
| Isolates from Dairy Cattle and Humans in New York and Washington
| States Reveals Source and Geographic Associations. (2017)"
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28389536/
|
| If you're going to ingest that product, ultra-pasteurization will
| at least kill all the salmonella, but even so it doens't sound
| that great.
| justincormack wrote:
| The raw milk products that are sold are generally from
| something approaching your Swiss cows, yes. There are legal
| controls of various sorts in countries where raaw milk products
| are available. This is my local raw milk/cheese/butter/etc
| dairy for example https://fenfarmdairy.co.uk/
| Gordonjcp wrote:
| > However, what if the cow was injected with growth hormones to
| double milk output per cow, and then treated with prophylactic
| antibiotics to prevent the resulting udder infections, and
| locked in a stall and fed with alfalfa laced with three
| different kinds of herbicides and pesticides?
|
| Then your meat and milk would be illegal to sell, in every
| country in the world but one.
| littlestymaar wrote:
| > So when the author says this, it avoids that question.
|
| Because raw vs pasteurized gives you no idea on that point. You
| can get Listeria-infected pasteurized cheese and get very sick
| (it happens every ones in a while, due to mishandling in the
| factories) and you can eat raw cheese for your entire life at a
| country-level (France for instance still has a lot of raw
| cheeses) without significant health effect. The seriousness
| (that is: regulation and controls) of the entire production
| line matters much more than pasteurization of the input milk
| (which merely ease the process for industrial, more than it
| offers any protection to the consumers)
| BiteCode_dev wrote:
| I have a personal, non proven, theory about Salmonella. I think
| it used to be a in a lot of food, but we didn't care most of
| the time as we were used to it. With things getting cleaner, we
| got sensitive to it, and it's now a problem because our immune
| system can't fight it as well and people get very sick out of
| it.
|
| I remember we used to get eggs from an old lady in my mothers
| village when I was a kid. Dirty eggs, full of chicken crap,
| very cheap (5 francs a dozen).
|
| They had a rich and flavorful taste, texture was full and
| round, and you felt like eating a ray of sunshine at breakfast.
|
| One day friends from the city that ate only supermarket stuff
| came by, and ate the eggs. They loved it.
|
| And they also got very sick.
| zasdffaa wrote:
| The eggs could have been marinaded in salmonella but if you
| cooked them (which you did?) they'd be sterile and safe
| afterwards. So maybe a coincidence or something.
| jeffrallen wrote:
| If you know and trust your farmer, and if you are in good health,
| raw milk is great. We've fed it to our kids since age 2.
| BiteCode_dev wrote:
| If you don't want to drink raw milk but would like to enjoy a
| fresher, more plain milk taste, I strongly recommend whole
| microfiltred milk.
|
| I don't know if it's available everywhere, but it's a process
| that is legal in France as an alternative to pasteurization, and
| it preserves some of the milk original qualities, albeit not all
| of them.
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