[HN Gopher] Framework Laptops Now Offering Refurbished Products
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Framework Laptops Now Offering Refurbished Products
Author : chrisdotcode
Score : 108 points
Date : 2022-10-13 18:15 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (frame.work)
(TXT) w3m dump (frame.work)
| awestroke wrote:
| If they ever release a model with an AMD processor, I'll buy one
| immediately
| radicaldreamer wrote:
| This is awesome, if Framework's testing is anything like Apple's,
| their refurbished products will actually be higher quality than
| "new" ones, primarily due to a thorough testing of components.
| esel2k wrote:
| I buy generally alot of things used/refurbished - also my beloved
| X1 carbon. As a swiss I always found it difficult to find the
| right keyboard, especially with ultrabooks. If framework would
| make it easy to buy another keyboard format I am all in (ready to
| pay the other keyboard incl small change fee). On the other hand
| if like all other manufacturers you are pretty much tied to one
| keyboard language(hard to change) then the chance the find the
| right model is so small that I wouldn't care looking.
| jonesetc wrote:
| Not sure if any of the existing ones matches what you're
| looking for, but my understanding is that they offer just what
| you're looking for: https://frame.work/marketplace/keyboards
| victor9000 wrote:
| This sounds great, but I would expect a discount larger than $80
| for purchasing a refurbished product. In particular, I'm looking
| at the 11th gen DIY units at:
|
| https://frame.work/marketplace/laptops
| blacksmith_tb wrote:
| Understandable (who wouldn't like anything they're shopping for
| to be cheaper...) I actually tend to prefer refurbs because
| they've been gone over by the real A Team, unlike units rolling
| off the line (that may depend a little on who we're talking
| about, Apple has worked out for me at least). Not in the market
| for another laptop right now, but the Frameworks are high on my
| list.
| jerlam wrote:
| New 11th gen DIY units don't appear to be sold at all, so not
| only are they refurbished, but also discontinued.
| spiffytech wrote:
| It looks like they just sold out - they were still available
| a day or two ago.
| CleverLikeAnOx wrote:
| Framework making laptops less disposable fills me with joy. I
| hope someone is able to do the same with cellphones.
| km3k wrote:
| Fairphone is trying to, but their market is mainly limited to
| Europe.
| carlhjerpe wrote:
| I have one at home, and I must say that it's very decent. Was
| my daily for a year. BUT the camera is crap, it's big and
| it's quite slow.
|
| Only thing that was a "deal breaker" was the camera though,
| it just doesn't cut it for what we expect these days.
| shp0ngle wrote:
| Yeah, I have looked into one and the pictures are really
| bad.
|
| The hardware is decent, so people say the poop camera
| quality is mainly causes by the software, and they keep
| improving it. Maybe. But I have two kids now, one 1 year
| old and one 3 year old, and I want to take as best pictures
| of them as possible. FairPhone 4 makes worse photos than
| iPhone 7.
| dbingham wrote:
| I really want to get a Framework laptop, all their values seem
| very well aligned with what I want from a laptop maker, but until
| they offer a model with a larger display I'm stuck waiting. As a
| developer, I really need at least a 15" display, preferably 16"
| or 17".
| lake_vincent wrote:
| Honestly, I thought the same thing, but I am an extremely happy
| Framework v2 owner, and I don't miss the extra real estate. I
| have multiple external monitors for when I am coding at home,
| and don't mind the small screen when I'm not at my workstation.
| It's so light and portable too, it's easy to pick up and move
| with one hand. I adore my Framework laptop. I've got Windows 11
| running WSL2 on it, and for me it is the ultimate dev
| workstation.
|
| I totally understand where you are coming from though, as I
| really was in the same boat. YMMV, of course.
| simcop2387 wrote:
| I'm largely in the same boat, but I bought one anyway. If they
| ever offer a model with a larger display I do plan to look at
| upgrading. I went and did it because I'm almost always docked
| to my desk anyway and it's not that big a deal when I'm not.
| romeoblade wrote:
| I'd order one instantly if they did a 16" version with a 16:10
| aspect ratio. I stopped using external monitors with my laptop
| years ago because I found that most of the time, the items I
| had up on the second, third, and fourth screens were more
| distractions than anything else. I now use a 32" inch 1080p TV
| as a single screen with the laptop closed when docked (which is
| rarely the case lately since I had a triple disc fusion in May.
| I now migrate between my kitchen bar, dining room table, and
| couch with a folding table due to hurting if in the same
| position for too long)
|
| Edit: Mobile - Grammar/Spelling Adjustments.
| mkmk3 wrote:
| Ill take whatever display size, just looking to earn some more
| or see something on the cheaper side, honestly, upgradability
| and repairbility, all else be damned
| simcop2387 wrote:
| You might be able to do that now, collect a bunch of
| refurbished parts and assemble a new laptop yourself.
| nullandvoid wrote:
| +1 I really wanted a framework laptop, but had to go with Asus
| M16 in the end due to size limitations.
|
| A dedicated GPU is another missing feature for me. I'm hoping
| with how powerful iGPU are becoming (amd 7000 looks promising)
| this should be a non issue hopefully by next purchase.
| buildbot wrote:
| They support thunderbolt, when I tried a framework laptop for
| a bit I was able to use an external GPU box when I needed the
| extra horsepower. But that may not work for your use case of
| course.
| nullandvoid wrote:
| Unfortunately I require something portable as I'm
| travelling a lot, and that's not something I can easily
| chuck in my laptop bag!
|
| Good to know though play nicely with eGPUs though for
| future reference.
| jtolmar wrote:
| My Framework laptop suddenly stopped charging or booting.
| Hopefully it'll end up being one of these, if their support ever
| stops telling me to retry charging it for 24 hours.
| bo1024 wrote:
| Maybe worth a try:
| https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Fully+Resetting+the+Mainboar...
| jtolmar wrote:
| I tried that before contacting them.
|
| So far their advice is just to try the same thing but longer,
| though.
| gbasp wrote:
| pmlnr wrote:
| A keyboard with full sized arrows, dedicated pgup/pgdown, 3
| physical mouse buttons and a trackpoint, I'm begging you, please.
| jdhn wrote:
| >and a trackpoint
|
| You know, I keep hearing people beg for a trackpoint, but if
| there really was the demand, why hasn't a third party made one
| already? That's the whole point of Framework, if you want to
| extend functionality, you can do it yourself without relying on
| the company to do it.
| jay_kyburz wrote:
| You know, this is going to sound outrageous to many hacker
| news readers, but I bought a little Asus Vivo book with a
| touch screen.. and I really like the touch screen. The
| trackpad sucks. My hands stay on the keyboard most of the
| time, but when I need to click on something, it feels really
| good to just reach up and touch it on the screen.
|
| Now admittedly, I don't use this thing for real work, just
| messing around when traveling, but a touch screen really is
| much better than a track pad.
| kybernetikos wrote:
| Like quite a few user upgradeable parts of the Framework, the
| amount of space you have to do something significantly
| different to what Framework have done is very limited. I do
| expect that eventually there'll be some sort of trackpoint
| solution, but my understanding is that there is not a lot of
| height available for the keyboard, and currently all the good
| trackpoint options are too tall.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Aren't you just looking for a Thinkpad at that point?
| Severian wrote:
| Add a AMD Ryzen option also please.
| tremon wrote:
| Or a RISC-V board (some help required from interested
| industry partners, I know).
| causi wrote:
| Yes. I'm looking forward to the "framework 2". What's the point
| of having four interchangeable ports when my daily driver
| laptop already has 3 type-A, two type-C, an SD and microSD
| reader, and HDMI-out all at the same time?
|
| Give me _the cool shit_ , Framework. Gimme a module that's
| actually a bluetooth mouse. Gimme a module that's just a
| horizontal stack of like six USB2 ports. Gimme an ethernet port
| and a serial port.
| jvanderbot wrote:
| Know what I love about Framework? You, humble user, can go
| make an adaptor. It's just USB-C on the inside, and a very
| simple slot to slide it into. Go put your USB->Serial FTDI
| chip in a 3d printed case and start making money.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Part of the point is that people can build this stuff
| themselves. Like, adding 4-6 USB ports onto this thing would
| be a weekend project if you already own a 3D printer.
| Bluetooth mouse one can probably be done with an off-the-
| shelf Alibaba kit, the Ethernet module exists already, and
| all 4 ports are serial by-default (but you could still add a
| SCSI port if you insist on being a villain).
|
| Though I agree, for a device that's trying to cater to both
| Thinkpad and Macbook users alike, they're seemingly allergic
| to all the stupid things people actually pay big money for on
| those machines.
| humanistbot wrote:
| The expansion slots are too small to fit 2x USB-A ports in
| a single expansion card (edit: without an extended body,
| which will not work for me). They could fit 2x USB-C in
| one, but the fact that nobody has made one in the year this
| product has been out makes me wary of the promise of an
| entire DIY ecosystem.
| BlackLotus89 wrote:
| One USB A Port ist 1.3cm the slot ist 3cm wide. Why
| shouldn't it fit?
| humanistbot wrote:
| Two USB-A ports would barely fit next to each other
| width-wise, but wouldn't provide enough space to actually
| plug in two USB-A cables/devices at the same time. Most
| cables have plastic covering the connector that adds
| 0.2-0.5cm of width. Grab two USB-A cables and place them
| right next to each other and you'll see a gap.
|
| Edit: plus you need to add 0.1cm for the plastic housing
| of the adapter itself.
| smoldesu wrote:
| They could fit 4 USB-C, or 6 MicroSD, or 12 headphone
| jacks!
|
| But none of that really matters. The elegance of the
| original model is that you get 4x Thunderbolt 4-capable
| ports that can run at full-speed and easily interface
| with any standard USB device. Sure you _could_ add more
| ports, but you 're just diluting the speed of the
| interface and adding more steps between your device and
| the laptop's IO controller.
|
| > the fact that nobody has made one in the year this
| product has been out makes me wary
|
| Did you look?
|
| https://community.frame.work/t/dual-usb-c-expansion-card-
| moc...
|
| Same problems exist as-usual when you try multiplexing
| Thunderbolt connections, Alt-mode and PD gets really
| funky.
| humanistbot wrote:
| > Did you look?
|
| I did look. Did you? That thread is a year of people
| speculating about if this would even be possible and a
| few prototype renderings. There is no evidence in that
| thread that anyone has even created a physical prototype,
| much less an actual working adapter.
|
| > The elegance of the original model
|
| I don't want elegance. I want sustainability,
| repairability, linux compatibility, and more than four
| ports.
|
| Edit: I would have much preferred if they had maybe 1 or
| 2 TB4 expansion slots, then take those other 40Gbit/sec
| TB4 pci-e lanes and have a bunch of standard ports that
| are easily replaceable on the motherboard, which all
| together wouldn't even come close to saturating a single
| TB4 lane. Add up 3x USB-A/C 3.2 Gen 2 (10 Gbps each, or
| 5Gbps for USB 3.2 Gen 1), 2.5Gbps ethernet, 100Mbps SD
| card, and you're still well under the bandwidth for one
| of the 4 lanes. Then have the other pci-e lane do HDMI
| 2.0b.
|
| > you're just diluting the speed of the interface and
| adding more steps between your device and the laptop's IO
| controller.
|
| I (and likely most people) don't need 4 TB4 lanes at
| 40Gbps each. The ethernet expansion card that sticks out
| of the case is max 2.5Gbps. Where is the rest of that
| bandwidth going?
| humanistbot wrote:
| Same, I've never understood the love for a laptop with only
| four ports -- and if you want one of those to be ethernet, it
| is not flush with the case. The modules could have been
| slightly bigger to fit 2x USB-A or USB-C, ethernet flush with
| the case. I hate carrying around and losing adapters.
|
| And the case could have been slightly bigger to allow for
| novel keyboard designs, including mechanical keys with better
| travel or a trackpoint. The framework has been out for a year
| and nobody has released a third party keyboard that is
| materially different.
| gbasp wrote:
| I think the laptop is too thin for an ethernet port but not
| an expert. I'd like a "Framework Pro" that thickens the
| laptop in exchange for providing workstation class
| performance and access to 6+ ports & builtin ethernet...
| jerlam wrote:
| The customization ability of Framework, for my use cases,
| appears to be overblown. "You don't have to use
| hubs/dongles", they say. The laptop on my desk has six things
| plugged into it, two more than the number of customizable
| ports that Framework offers. And I would much rather
| plug/unplug one or two USB-C hubs than unplug four separate
| items on both sides of the laptop.
|
| For someone with a smaller set of peripherals and working
| mostly mobile, it might be worth it - if they were fine with
| the non-customizable aspects such as the trackpad and
| keyboard. But I'm not one of those people.
| stormbrew wrote:
| Introducing a whole new structure for modules would be a huge
| self-defeat for their reason for existing. I didn't get a
| framework laptop with the expectation they'd obsolete it in a
| couple years.
| colejohnson66 wrote:
| They could make an adapter that allows the current, smaller
| modules to fit in these supposed future voids. If done
| right, this adapter could be completely passive (no
| circuits).
| causi wrote:
| Why would you need a whole new structure? They've already
| shown they're willing to have extended-body modules such as
| the ethernet one.
| stormbrew wrote:
| I mean if you want a wider thing with multiple ports you
| can just get a usbc thing that does that and plug it into
| the usbc module? There's lots of those out there.
|
| The Ethernet one sticks out a little but a multiple usb-a
| port one would be a lot bigger and put more mechanical
| stress on the whole thing.
| plopz wrote:
| dedicated home/end as well
| stormbrew wrote:
| I have no interest in a trackpoint at all but I do really want
| the other things. The keyboard being replaceable is great in
| theory but until they put some effort into making alternatives,
| it's not very useful.
| Octabrain wrote:
| I am really tempted to get a Framework laptop. Has anyone real
| world stories about using it with Linux (specifically Fedora)?
| Thanks in advance.
| GauntletWizard wrote:
| I'm an arch user on my Framework, and it's going very well for
| me, aside from the Intel Graphics fiasco a few days ago (Wasn't
| exclusive to Arch or Framework).
| victor9000 wrote:
| I'm on the 11th gen board running Fedora 36 and everything
| worked fine out of the box. The UX for upgrading the BIOS was a
| little clunky, but that goes for all Linux distros. The only
| issues I've experienced have involved the mechanical components
| on the keyboard, and support was quick about sending me
| replacement.
| mkmk3 wrote:
| All I have to refer to is NixOS, no fedora (not op). Seems
| pretty good though. https://blog.tjll.net/one-year-with-nixos-
| on-framework/
| byefruit wrote:
| Can't really speak to Fedora but Ubuntu 22.04 works almost
| perfectly on the 12th Gen (there's a driver you have to
| blacklist to get the media keys to work).
| ggpsv wrote:
| Ubuntu 22.04 works flawlessly out of the box for me, assuming
| you've completed the setup guide provided by Framework.
|
| Using it as my daily work computer.
| simcop2387 wrote:
| I use debian myself, I ran into some self caused issues because
| i migrated from a thinkpad and copied the data over (I had a
| bunch of thinkpad specific quirks setup). A fresh OS install
| should do fine, but if you've done any ACPI stuff to your grub
| config to deal with something weird from a previous laptop you
| may find that the trackpad doesn't work properly.
|
| Aside from that I'm currently doing TB4 with a Caldigit TS4
| dock and putting out over a single cable 2.5GbE, USB3, two
| displays (1920x1080@60Hz HDMI, and 5120x1440@120Hz DP) and
| charging the laptop without any issues at all from linux
| itself.
|
| I did end up going to 5.18 and above kernels for some better
| linux intel alder-lake tuning/tweaks but it wasn't strictly
| necessary. You will probably need the binary blob for the intel
| wifi 6 adapter, not entirely sure I had it from my old laptop
| already.
|
| The screen resolution is a little weird, but nothing has had
| any trouble with it.
|
| Edited to add: I've got the 2nd gen laptop with an i7-1280p and
| 64gb of ram.
| wdavidw wrote:
| Not too long ago, we shared our feedback on using NixOS with
| our Framework: https://www.adaltas.com/en/2022/08/22/nixos-
| framework-laptop...
| nilespotter wrote:
| Search around for user experiences w/r/t battery life on
| Framework. My sense from a little over a year ago was that they
| built a windows machine that runs Linux pretty well but the
| battery life is abysmal. May be totally fixed by now.
| Sphax wrote:
| I've been using a Framework 11th gen for work since I think May
| with Fedora (currently using Fedora 37 beta). For context, half
| of the time I use my laptop for meetings and video calls, the
| other half it sits on a stand plugged via USB-C to a LG 4K
| monitor where I've plugged my keyboard and mouse (it also
| charges my laptop).
|
| The two major downsides of this device in my opinion: - the
| battery life is terrible. If I'm on a video call not plugged in
| the battery lasts 2h at most and doing basic work (writing on
| Notion, using Slack, etc) it's at most 5h. Compared to my
| coworkers with M1 laptops it's just terrible. - the CPU and
| device gets way too hot without even doing much. I can't
| recommend a Framework laptop if you intend to type on it, I
| can't see myself using it to work without an external keyboard.
| Also, when I'm on a video call the CPU fan is spinning fast
| which is annoying.
|
| For video calls I'm usually plugging a Logitech thing via USB-C
| which acts as a webcam, a microphone and an external monitor
| (which is a TV for me). This works surprisingly well. Sometimes
| I use a simple USB-A microphone and my laptop webcam, which
| also works. Right now with Fedora 37 beta I can't use my
| bluetooth headphones because something crashes with pipewire.
|
| When the laptop is plugged into the LG monitor everything works
| fine and it's basically a workstation at this point. It's fast
| enough for what I do which is Go and Java mainly (I have a
| 1165G7, 32G of RAM and 1TB of SSD).
|
| One annoying thing with an external monitor is that _something_
| causes Gnome to move my windows to random workspaces when I
| unlock Gnome. I have no idea why; it doesn't happen when I'm
| not plugged in.
|
| If you have more specific questions I'd be happy to answer.
| spiffytech wrote:
| Are you on the latest firmware? People are saying the
| overheating was patched around 3.06/3.07, but it'd be good to
| know if that didn't fix it for you.
| bo1024 wrote:
| I have been running Fedora (35 I think) for about a year. I'm
| happy with the battery life while in use -- not blown away, but
| happy -- but it does still drain with the lid closed unless
| shut down. Everything else is perfect.
| hecanjog wrote:
| I've only run linux on my framework laptop. I'm on a rolling
| release distro and there have been some issues with regressions
| that seem to get fixed pretty quickly. Early on I had some
| graphics issues (I don't remember specifics) that got resolved
| with a kernel update. I also got a bad RAM stick early on which
| took me a while to figure out. :-) Recently the intel graphics
| bug in 5.19.12 took me out of commission for part of a day
| until I downgraded my kernel. It's been fixed since.
|
| Overall, coming from linux on older thinkpads I wasn't used to
| kernel regressions like that, but this is my first time using
| linux on brand new hardware, too.
| MichaelMoser123 wrote:
| just in time for the layoff wave.
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