[HN Gopher] Old Elbe Tunnel
___________________________________________________________________
Old Elbe Tunnel
Author : Tomte
Score : 114 points
Date : 2022-10-12 10:46 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
| rongopo wrote:
| Is the elevator for cars free? Why?
| neuronic wrote:
| While it has low capacity and was "replaced" with other ways to
| cross the Elbe, it still helps ease traffic across the river,
| other roads and bridges are often very packed or even blocked
| (often WW2 bomb defusals). I have lived both in NYC and in
| Hamburg and while the scale in Hamburg is way smaller, the type
| of traffic is kinda similar. Btw, isn't the Holland tunnel from
| NJ to Manhattan also free?
|
| Also, we generally don't have tolls anywhere in Germany. If we
| do I have a hard time thinking of examples. Our taxes are (too)
| heavily invested in road infrastructure anyways and the tunnel
| isn't privately owned.
| narrowtux wrote:
| Right now the "Alte Elbtunnel" is undergoing maintenance in one
| of the two tunnels. Since as long as I've lived here, it hasn't
| been open to cars, but the large elevators previously used for
| cars are still serving bicyclists and pedestrians during the
| daytime. They get quite full during rush hour.
|
| I use the tunnel 3-4 times per week!
| Stamp01 wrote:
| I love the boot and rats wall ornament. They deserve love and
| recognition, too.
| rongopo wrote:
| As someone that worked in Hamburg's unique Chilehaus, and used a
| few "paternoster elevators", I can say this city is full of small
| surprises.
| Avalaxy wrote:
| nealabq wrote:
| Because it's a beautiful piece of engineering, publicly
| accessible and appreciated and thus maintained.
| soperj wrote:
| Because it's interesting.
| mftb wrote:
| The context is engineering. In the article it's referred to as
| a "technical sensation" in it's time.
| EdwardDiego wrote:
| Was interesting to go through, the tiling is old school, and
| they've preserved the old car lifts, they're positively Steam Age
| looking steel girder contraptions.
| danieldk wrote:
| Of German tunnels I've always found the Zugspitzbahn impressive.
| The last section is a tunnel through the highest mountain of
| Germany and ends 300 meters below the summit.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavarian_Zugspitze_Railway
| lexicality wrote:
| I'm amazed they let cars in, it seems like the exhaust fumes
| would be unpleasant and make the tunnel dirty.
| JonathonW wrote:
| Tom Scott did a video there a while back:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXuTz-5N1Aw
| Calavar wrote:
| Many of the older subway stations in the upper part of Manhattan
| were built in the same time period and have a very similar
| architectural style, down to the tiled walls and the ornate
| molding, but they look absolutely decrepit. The tile is stained
| with dirt and grime. The molding is broken in places.
|
| For most people who pass through one of these stations (which are
| pretty busy), their general impression is that the stations look
| cheap and dirty. You wouldn't really notice how lavish the
| decorations in these stations must have been at opening unless
| you were paying particular attention to your surroundings. It's
| sad how little the US has invested in maintaining its public
| transit infrastructure compared to other countries.
| edavison1 wrote:
| It's tempting to see it that way, but I read your comment and
| see an unfair comparison between a small city and the largest
| in the United States. The MTA is ugly (I love it) but let's not
| kid ourselves, they spend a shitload of money maintaining
| nearly 500 stations, probably the yearly cost of that tunnel
| per day.
| andrewshadura wrote:
| Hamburg? A small city? Seriously?
| rongopo wrote:
| For "true Hamburguers" is indeed very small: North of the
| Elbe, West of the Alster.
| lispm wrote:
| The renovation of the Elbtunnel is still ongoing until ca. 2026
| and will then in sum have cost around 114 million Euro.
| Arrath wrote:
| The (at least the older original) stations of the Moscow metro
| are likewise individual works of art. The pure plain
| utilitarianism of modern stations in NYC or the London
| Underground are sterile and boring in comparison.
| lmm wrote:
| I don't think "pure plain utilitarianism" is a fair
| description of the London underground as a whole. Even the
| Victoria Line made a point of doing a unique mosaic for each
| station; the Jubilee Line extension has a distinctive
| artistic style (which a lot of people hate, but you can't say
| they didn't try). Crossrail has put an even stronger emphasis
| on design.
| Arrath wrote:
| Yeah it may be an overgeneralization, but from a recent
| trip nothing about the stations I visited particularly
| sticks out in my memory beyond concrete and plain tile.
| jguimont wrote:
| Montreal has different architecture and design for each metro
| stop https://www.mtlblog.com/montreal/montreal-metro-
| architecture...
| Arrath wrote:
| I love it!
| NeoTar wrote:
| Whilst I wouldn't call Berlin's UBahn stations works of art,
| they are often distinct and make travelling the network its
| own pleasure.
| xhrpost wrote:
| > It's sad how little the US has invested in maintaining its
| public transit infrastructure compared to other countries.
|
| I'm on the fence about this, on average across the US, I'd
| agree. But where we do have decent transit, we seem to spend a
| lot. The NY MTA will spend $18B[1] in total in 2022, more than
| 6x the amount the state spends on all state roads in NY for
| 2018[2]. Despite this amount of money being spent, we have the
| general problems that you mention above, plus the fact that any
| expansion is prohibitively expensive. I just have to wonder,
| even if a lot more money were spent, would we actually see
| proportional improvements?
|
| [1]
| https://www.osc.state.ny.us/files/reports/osdc/pdf/report-10...
|
| [2] https://cbcny.org/research/building-sound-fiscal-future-
| new-...
| mbiondi wrote:
| A lot of the MTA's budget is spent on interest on their debt
| (about $4 Billion / year). Page 23 of your report shows they
| currently have about $45 Billion in outstanding bonds. A
| cursory view seems to show about $6 Billion is to cover
| capital projects, which makes one wonder what the other 39
| Billion was issued for.
| crote wrote:
| I do not live in NYC, so _please_ correct me if I am wrong,
| but both can be true at the same time.
|
| Looking specifically at the NYC subway, they are both over-
| spending and under-spending at the same time. In a nice
| example of the Boots Theory[0], they are spending money by
| the boatloads to keep the dating infrastructure working. A
| lot of it dates back to the 1930s, and it is impossible to
| get replacement parts. A newer system would be far easier and
| cheaper to maintain - but in the short term replacing it
| would be an enormous cost.
|
| This is made even worse by it running 24/7. Without a
| maintenance window, doing proper preventative maintenance is
| pretty much impossible.
|
| [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory
| mbiondi wrote:
| I never heard of the Boots Theory before now, but I don't
| think it applies to the MTA. They buy the top of the line.
| And will build their own parts if it doesn't exist. It's
| not unusual for subway cars to run for millions of miles
| and last decades. The R32's were deployed in the 1930's and
| lasted until the early 2000's [0].
|
| I am a New Yorker, and have seen the MTA do maintenance at
| night or over a weekend. Or, if things are desperate,
| during the day.
|
| I don't know the real issues either, but always assumed
| politics played a big part.
|
| [0] -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R32_(New_York_City_Sub
| way_car)
| lmm wrote:
| > They buy the top of the line. And will build their own
| parts if it doesn't exist. It's not unusual for subway
| cars to run for millions of miles and last decades. The
| R32's were deployed in the 1930's and lasted until the
| early 2000's [0].
|
| That doesn't seem to contradict th idea that they've
| spent far more money maintaining obsolete equipment when
| buying new would be cheaper overall. (Not really "boots
| theory" though).
| [deleted]
| bradhe wrote:
| Funny, I just walked through this tunnel last week.
| Elte wrote:
| Biked through the tunnel, then ran over the Kohlbrandbrucke the
| one time a year they let you do that. The fun one can have
| pointlessly crossing a river (:.
| rongopo wrote:
| There is no pointless crossing of a river. It might be a
| subconsciously relevant event.
| graderjs wrote:
| I've been there. It's very f*** cool. It's sort of like the old
| underground metro subway stations in Sydney australia. You know
| the old circular key line with Martin place museum Hyde Park
| these type of stations on them? I can't remember all the names
| now but they have that old tiling and the long pedestrian tunnels
| and I mean just a fantastic kind of vibe to go into them and this
| tunnel is like that but it goes under the water.
|
| I think there might be a similar tunnel in Antwerp, Belgium
| (great city, awesome Jewish bakeries) I seem to recall having
| transited such a place in that region too.
| padraigcoogan wrote:
| The remaining Sydney subway stations with original tiling and
| fittings are two beneath Hyde Park: St James,
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HauHHw7zkoM, and Museum,
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80MDwect8Y4
| tchvil wrote:
| This is the tunnel you may have seen:
| https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2019/03/13/the-scheldt-tu...
|
| The wooden escalator is impressive still working after so many
| years.
| neuronic wrote:
| Glad you enjoyed it this much. I live in Hamburg and haven't
| gone there as often as one probably should. It's a really
| fascinating place.
| chappi42 wrote:
| In Hamburg one has to go to the Wunderland* (everything else
| is secondary;))
|
| *https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-AvGfN4bJ0
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-10-13 23:00 UTC)