[HN Gopher] What makes a champagne vintage great? Ask a deep lea...
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What makes a champagne vintage great? Ask a deep learning model
Author : prostoalex
Score : 29 points
Date : 2022-10-09 23:11 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.wired.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.wired.com)
| gewa wrote:
| There's a recent startup which wanted to take taste prediction of
| luxury drinks to the next level with ML:
|
| https://www.mpg.de/18773206/the-signature-of-taste
| asciimike wrote:
| Interesting article, I've got a few thoughts on this space.
|
| Endless West (https://endlesswest.com/) has a "molecular
| whisky" (they aren't legally allowed to call it whisky because
| it wasn't distilled from a certain mash, aged in oak for a
| minimum number of years, etc. etc.) that's the same idea, minus
| the machine learning (which probably isn't that helpful, IMO
| [1]). More on the process in [2].
|
| To my knowledge, it hasn't sold particularly well, and most
| reviews (granted, likely biased by the origin of the spirit)
| tend to say "it's fine, but it's not the same as 'real
| whisky'."
|
| The issue with the "luxury spirits" market is that (to
| paraphrase the Scotch distillery Bruichladdich), "terrior
| matters". Like fine art, one's enjoyment of such a beverage
| comes from both the tangible (taste, smell, bottle
| presentation, etc.) and the intangible ("having good taste",
| "buying a bottle of whisky older than you are"; generally
| signaling value). Like most (all?) luxury goods, the tangible
| costs account for a small percentage of the overall cost, with
| the intangibles and associated signaling value.
|
| There's a reason that "The Macallan" which is marketed as such
| costs significantly more than vs "the macallan" that's been
| private labeled by Costco or Trader Joe's. Same juice,
| different intangibles.
|
| All of this is to say that:
|
| - I think the technology is super cool and I want to see it
| come to fruition
|
| - I don't think "luxury goods" is the right segment to target
| because nobody buys a birkin bag to carry their laptop to work
| - Create a novelty for mass affluent consumers; not super high
| margin but make up for it in volume (what Glyph was attempting)
| - Target a niche consumer group who cares about a different
| signaling metric, e.g. eco conscious consumers who want the
| same "end resuly" but are unhappy with traditional processes
| (which is what Endless West seems to be doing with e.g. [3])
|
| [1]: Cognitive Cooking with Chef Watson
| (https://ice.edu/partner-with-ice/IBM) is a great cookbook
| because chefs fed IBM Watson a bunch of recipes and then asked
| it to create new recipes, which it did, with some _very_ wacky
| results that chefs then tweaked. Definitely possible to create
| new/unique/interesting things, but I think it's hard to get
| people to buy into the end result, especially if the majority
| of folks would initially reject it as disgusting/too weird.
|
| [2]: https://fortune.com/2019/05/25/endless-west-glyph-
| engineered...
|
| [3]: https://shop.endlesswest.com/kazoku.html
| jl6 wrote:
| _Columbo: How can you tell a good wine from an average wine?_
|
| _Frenchman: By, uh... the price._
|
| -- Columbo S03E02, Any Old Port in a Storm
| brockwhittaker wrote:
| This is also true historically to some effect. The bordeaux
| classification of 1855 (which remains in effect) was in large
| part done on price.
| pessimizer wrote:
| They could replace all the wine/whisky/audiophile/cigar/marijuana
| etc. aficionado writers with AI models and no one would notice.
| [deleted]
| searine wrote:
| I am throughly convinced that the most you should ever spend on
| Champagne is 50-80 dollars (ex a normal bottle of veuve
| clicquot), and only in extra special circumstances go near the
| 200 dollar price point. Anything above that is just paying for
| style over substance.
|
| Specifically I taste tested several bottles based on an
| increasing scale of rarity and price. This included a 200 dollar
| bottle of dom, a 200 dollar bottle of La Grande Dame, and a one
| of a kind bottle of Dom stored properly in my friends basement
| since 1988 (a supposedly good vintage).
|
| I have no skin in the wine game. I just don't like getting
| tricked by the luxury business. 50-80 is the sweet spot of
| quality and price, with diminishing returns in quality at the 200
| price point Once you get above the top recent vintages, you are
| just paying for exclusivity not the product.
| samwillis wrote:
| I'm personally convinced the most you should spend on a bottle
| of Champaign is PS10-15 on a bottle of Cremant De Bordeaux
| rather than Champaign. There will always be occasions when a
| bottle of Champaign is called for, but you likely have one that
| someone gave you as gift for that.
|
| Most Cremant is as good as or better than Champaign at 2-3x the
| price.
|
| We are particularly fond of this one:
| https://www.ocado.com/products/m-s-cremant-de-bordeaux-blanc...
| brockwhittaker wrote:
| I haven't heard much from Bordeaux on cremants, but i can
| vouch for burgundy and loire for cremants that perform as
| well as many champagnes, for under $25.
| mathematicaster wrote:
| When it comes to bubbles, I believe the subjective dimensions
| of personal taste and disposable income are by far the largest
| determinants of what any one person "should ever" do.
| pimeys wrote:
| I usually go with the small unknown vineyards. I've had a bunch
| of great bottles of champagne for 25-30 euros, always from
| smaller brands. The famous ones cost too much and are quite
| often not as good even...
| WastingMyTime89 wrote:
| As a French who grew not far from Champagne, I'm actually
| convinced the most you should spend on a bottle of Champagne is
| exactly 0 dollar. At an equivalent price point, you will find
| plenty of better sparkling wines all around. Buying Champagne
| really is buying the brand.
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