[HN Gopher] Goblin's Law of Whimsy
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       Goblin's Law of Whimsy
        
       Author : herbertl
       Score  : 26 points
       Date   : 2022-10-09 03:19 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.goblinapp.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.goblinapp.com)
        
       | meheleventyone wrote:
       | This kinda feels like there needs to be some self-reflection.
       | From the article:
       | 
       | > For me, the whimsy trend all began with Flow Club. Their
       | tagline is "Feel good getting work done" - that is so against
       | modern hustle culture and American workplace vibes that it's
       | almost jolting.
       | 
       | To me this sounds more like a coping mechanism as are all the
       | other productivity err.. "enhancements" mentioned. If only we
       | made work more _jazz hands_ it'd be better rather than improving
       | the material conditions it's conducted under.
       | 
       | Similar to gamification it's taking the wrong lessons.
        
         | morelisp wrote:
         | "Feel good getting work done" is the overwhelmingly dominant
         | modern hustle culture vibe. But why self-reflect when your flow
         | group will applaud instead?
         | 
         | > When you refresh the page, your Hype Goblin has a new message
         | for you.
         | 
         | I want off.
        
           | xracy wrote:
           | We at Strex Corp believe that you should be at your most
           | productive, and smiling helps that. Please smile while you
           | work. And come on down to the company picnic so we can be
           | more productive.
        
             | AceJohnny2 wrote:
             | Would you rather the opposite?
             | 
             | The "irreverent" attitude is a hallmark of (US) west-coast
             | (dare I say, Silicon Valley) post-hippie culture, which
             | rose in reaction to the more straight-laced East Coast work
             | culture.
             | 
             | The pendulum swings.
        
               | morelisp wrote:
               | Just hear me out: flexible, relaxed office standards but
               | also no mandatory fun.
               | 
               | (But I guess there's literally only two cities in the
               | world.)
        
             | klondike_klive wrote:
             | Here's the nap room - don't be seen using it.
        
         | twic wrote:
         | > Their tagline is "Feel good getting work done" - that is so
         | against modern hustle culture and American workplace vibes that
         | it's almost jolting.
         | 
         | No, this is perfectly resonant with modern American workplace
         | vibes. Being against modern American workplace vibes would be
         | Slack Off And Steal Office Supplies Club.
        
       | wwilim wrote:
       | I just did a powerpoint about how we should avoid integration
       | hell in a project by releasing early. The timeline only had
       | "now", "God only knows when" and "much earlier than God only
       | knows when". There was an architecture diagram with devil emojis
       | bouncing on each arrow. I also had two consecutive slides which
       | were fullscreen memes of Beelzeboss going on and on how every
       | service Jack Black makes needs CI/CD, a dashboard, Correlation
       | IDs, auth, and it all takes time
        
       | nicbou wrote:
       | I'm fine with boring-looking internet. Usually, websites are
       | means to an end. The content or the functionality is what
       | matters. I end up reading a lot of websites with Pocket or
       | Firefox's reader mode.
       | 
       | Perhaps it's because a lot of the whimsy feels insincere, or
       | comes at the wrong moment. Perhaps it's because I value self-
       | effacing tools. Either way, I'm okay with boring pages.
        
         | throw10920 wrote:
         | You got it, boring internet is good. Branding, goofiness
         | distract from the substance. If I go to Slack I want to get
         | work done, and I'd rather that the devs focus their efforts on
         | improving performance and not adding _more_ tiny distractions
         | to my day. If I want fun, I 'll go to Reddit, which does "fun"
         | way better than Slack ever will.
         | 
         | After the Slack devs finish making their product as performant
         | as a 90's chat app, _then_ they can start adding in silly
         | things. Until then, the  "whimsy" just makes me more frustrated
         | at their trash product.
        
       | Zababa wrote:
       | One thing that I don't really like is when people take care of
       | the whimsical before taking care of the basics, good design, good
       | UX, properly-tested software, good docs and good support.
       | 
       | For example, on this page, the links, the first quote and the
       | image captions don't respect the minimum contrast rules for
       | accessibility. Lots of images don't have an alternative text.
       | Image captions are right-aligned, which could be a style thing,
       | but looks weird. On the good side of things, the performance is
       | good, 95 according to Lighthouse.
       | 
       | The article seems to agree with me, as Henry, the vacuum, is
       | better on a technical level than the vacuum it replaced. When
       | people are using a website, they are trying to do something. I
       | get frustrated by tools that get in my way.
       | 
       | I also think that different people have different degrees of
       | tolerance/liking of whimsical. Flow Club or the Hype Goblin don't
       | resonate with me at all, they alienate me.
       | 
       | My personal preference is simple and clean-looking design, like
       | for example https://www.gov.uk/. It's not cold, but it also
       | doesn't try to pretend that it's a good friend when we don't even
       | know each other.
       | 
       | One company that, to me, does it well, is Beeminder. I think the
       | way I would put it is that through all their documentation,
       | branding and interactions, I feel like they have a genuine intent
       | of building a win/win relationship with me. Nobody is trying to
       | abuse the situation for their own gain, there are clear rules
       | that we both respect, they get some value thanks to me, and I get
       | some value thanks to them. It feels like being in the prisoner's
       | dilemma with someone and knowing they'll cooperate.
       | 
       | I'm not affiliated with them, just a happy client.
        
       | dwohnitmok wrote:
       | It's tricky. Too much of this and it comes off as inauthentic and
       | a company "trying too hard." Anecdotally I feel like this is a
       | complaint that comes up from time to time on HN, but I can't find
       | any examples at the moment. This is especially the case if all
       | companies in the industry start doing this. See for example how
       | many company products now have emojis splashed everywhere.
        
         | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
         | Slack does it, when you clear out your unreads.
         | All clear.              Everything's sorted!         Let's
         | start something new.              You're all read.
         | Here's a pony.              There! Caught up.         Set your
         | mind to something new.              All done.         The
         | future is yours.              Done and done.              All
         | done.         The world is your oyster.
         | 
         | etc.
         | 
         | Salesforce is _not_ a small company, and not one known for
         | whimsy.
        
           | mkaic wrote:
           | I think this is actually a fascinating difference between the
           | cultures surrounding Slack and Discord. Both use this
           | language--in fact, Discord uses it much more liberally,
           | sprinkling all sorts of silly things around the UI--but
           | because Discord is _meant_ to be casual, it doesn 't come
           | across as cringey like it does in Slack.
           | 
           | There's lots of little details about Discord that make this
           | work, too, from the layperson-readable changelogs written
           | with an informal, friendly tone, to the Discord YouTube
           | channel, which from what I can tell is basically just Discord
           | paying some young people to do whatever they want to
           | transparently market the product to Gen Z in a genuine, non-
           | patronizing way.
           | 
           | I'm of the opinion that Discord has a much better user
           | experience than Slack, and the only reasons I don't campaign
           | to switch my lab over to it are:
           | 
           | a.) Slack has entrenchment/status-quo advantage, and
           | 
           | b.) Slack says it's "for professionals" while Discord targets
           | "normal people", and heaven forbid we not use the product
           | with "professional" stamped on it in our highly
           | "professional" workspace!
           | 
           | TL;DR: I wish Discord would launch a marketing campaign
           | targeted at middle managers saying "professionals use Discord
           | too", I'm pretty sick of Slack at this point.
        
             | insightcheck wrote:
             | Slack also lets users easily make a group chat. In my
             | experience, backed up by [1], Discord requires you to
             | "Friend" members of the group chat before it lets you
             | create the chat (requiring the user to send out a friend
             | request, then wait for an acceptance, before starting the
             | chat).
             | 
             | You could argue that group conversations are best suited
             | for new channels, but I've personally had a lot of value
             | from quick group chats in my experience.
             | 
             | [1] https://support.discord.com/hc/en-
             | us/articles/223657667-Grou...
        
               | dmonitor wrote:
               | Discord also has threads, which are incredibly useful.
               | Basically a short-lived subchannel that people can join.
               | They fill a similar role to group chats.
        
               | tehnub wrote:
               | Discord doesn't have threads* though, does it? To me
               | that's one of the most important features of Slack. I've
               | tried following discussions in Discord, and it's
               | infuriating; there doesn't seem to be a way to look at a
               | message's replies -- you can only follow threads
               | "backwards".
               | 
               | * https://slack.com/help/articles/115000769927-Use-
               | threads-to-...
        
               | twic wrote:
               | Discord has a feature called threads, but it works
               | differently to any other feature called threads anywhere
               | else. You can pick an existing comment, create a thread
               | starting at that comment, give that thread a name, and it
               | works like a mini-channel - people can post comments in
               | the thread, and they appear there, and not in the channel
               | (there is no option to also post a message to the
               | channel). Threads appear in the sidebar under their
               | parent channels, and there's some UI to show that a
               | comment has a thread hanging off it. After some period of
               | inactivity, threads are archived, and no longer appear,
               | but you can find them somehow.
               | 
               | We use them now and then on the gang group chat, but they
               | don't feel as comfortable as Slack threads. I'm not sure
               | why.
               | 
               | It's a bit weird that you name threads, rather than just
               | replying to a root comment.
               | 
               | Discord also now has a thing called "forums", which is
               | basically a highly mutated channel that works like a
               | bulletin board. People make posts rather than comments,
               | and there is a reply chain off each post. The structure
               | is fundamentally the same as comments and threads, but
               | it's laid out very differently.
        
           | LawTalkingGuy wrote:
           | Slack is an acquisition, right? Did the whimsy come before or
           | after?
        
             | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
             | Before.
             | 
             | We'll have to see how it lasts.
             | 
             | I use Slack, but that's because everyone else uses it.
             | 
             | I'm not especially happy with it. It's pretty buggy.
             | 
             | https://twitter.com/iamdevloper/status/926458505355235328
        
           | dwohnitmok wrote:
           | I'm not sure if you were trying to provide an example, but if
           | you were, I was trying to find an example where someone
           | complains about the whimsy in a product, but it looks like
           | you kind of elicited one in a reply to your comment, so ha
           | yeah I guess that counts.
        
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       (page generated 2022-10-12 23:01 UTC)