[HN Gopher] It's painful how hellbent Mark Zuckerberg is on conv...
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       It's painful how hellbent Mark Zuckerberg is on convincing us that
       VR is a thing
        
       Author : shaburn
       Score  : 37 points
       Date   : 2022-10-11 20:13 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (techcrunch.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (techcrunch.com)
        
       | russellbeattie wrote:
       | In addition to issues like motion sickness and discomfort of
       | strapping a headset to your face for extended periods, I feel
       | there's a bigger issue with VR: It can only be used somewhere
       | where you have complete trust in your environment. Somewhere
       | where you wouldn't mind _going to sleep_. When you 're "in" VR,
       | you're vulnerable to anyone and anything around you.
       | 
       | This means most public places are just not going to work. Even in
       | your own home, you might be unwilling to disengage so completely
       | if you have a mischievous sibling, an animal who might get
       | underfoot or delicate/dangerous items near you that could be hit
       | by a wayward swing of the arm. In general, you are completely
       | reliant on others around you to warn you of danger - from
       | wandering too close to walls or furniture, to watching out for
       | others who might want to take advantage of your vulnerability.
       | 
       | Offices might work, but not open plan. Classrooms are a non-
       | starter. Airplane seats would be good (if not great), but not
       | public transport like a subway or a city bus, even if you
       | disregard the nausea issue. Even sitting in a high-end cafe or a
       | public library, you'd need to have someone actively looking out
       | for you. Again, would you be comfortable laying down for a nap in
       | the middle of a park? If not, then using VR there isn't going to
       | work.
       | 
       | This is an unavoidable issue that can only be slightly mitigated
       | with automated detection systems. There are inherent limits to a
       | technical solution like that: Someone staring at you intently
       | from a short distance away to gauge how they could best run up
       | and grab your bag isn't something a proximity warning system
       | would be able to counter. Already just concentrating on portable
       | video games in public (phone, Switch, etc.) is such a distraction
       | that you have to be wary of your surroundings - the idea of
       | adding in complete sensory deprivation to it as well is farcical.
       | 
       | VR simply isn't the next smartphone in terms of technology. It
       | will forever be a niche used at home, alone. That isn't to say
       | this is a small market - the entire video game industry has a
       | similar use case - but Zuckerberg has his hopes set on a
       | revolution akin to the iPhone and it just isn't going to happen.
       | 
       | AR is a much more realistic opportunity. If Zuck was as smart as
       | he thinks he is, he'd pivot and focus there. But I don't think it
       | will happen until Apple launches their solution (whatever it may
       | be), and by then it may be way too late.
        
         | johnnymorgan wrote:
         | Always been my thinking on the logistical side of the equation.
         | 
         | You need everyone to have VR gear at a ubiquitous level similar
         | to monitors and I just don't see that happening.
         | 
         | AR is a much easier sell with a much lower cost to entry
        
       | ralusek wrote:
       | I'm honestly sick of these posts. VR _is_ a thing. It 's a really
       | cool thing, and it _is_ totally underappreciated for what it is.
       | 
       | A single company controlling the metaverse is what's stupid.
        
       | vlark wrote:
       | Remember when Second Life was the next big thing? Pepperidge
       | Farms remembers.
        
         | lampshades wrote:
         | Pepperidge Farms might want to have their memory checked if
         | they're comparing this to Second Life. A company just pivoted
         | their entire multi-hundred billion dollar business to do this
         | and improve on this.
         | 
         | Sure, you can joke around that early stages look like Second
         | Life, but it's a really lazy way to look at it with absolutely
         | no consideration for what the future holds.
        
           | metadat wrote:
           | Second Life is actually better in every way (more engaging
           | and fun) than anything we've seen come out of the Metapharce
           | to date.
           | 
           | FB was never a games company. Games are challenging in a
           | distinctly different way compared to the $FB specialty-
           | Platform Scale engineering. Even with Carmack helping them
           | they're still not doing a convincing job of pulling it off to
           | transform themselves into .. whatever they're trying to
           | become. I couldn't even say, perhaps they want to bevome like
           | MS Xbox or Slony PS5?
        
           | johnnymorgan wrote:
           | That doesn't mean the product/market fit can still fall
           | short.
           | 
           | I've just never been convinced that VR, at the hardware
           | distribution level, will hit a high enough saturation point
           | to become ubiquitous.
           | 
           | AR I still feel will have a better chance at wide scale
           | adoption, however its just my own assesment of the market now
           | and that could change quickly if something hits that is
           | sticky enough to get the user adoption to snowball.
        
       | michaelcampbell wrote:
       | Zuck is hellbent on convincing us that whatever he believes, is
       | correct. And mostly what he believes is whatever can make him
       | money.
        
         | Bellend wrote:
         | Reminds me of Elon Musk. I think it's a new category where a
         | handful of people announce vapourware and billions flood in to
         | back it with money but none of it exists in reality.
        
           | 0x445442 wrote:
           | I don't know, reducing Trans-Atlantic network latency and
           | bringing high speed internet to millions in currently un-
           | served areas around the world while at the same time giving
           | me an alternative to Cox seems worth while. Oh and being able
           | to tweet that I think the benefit/cost ratio of mRNA vaccines
           | is less than one for most people will be kind of cool as
           | well.
        
       | atoav wrote:
       | VR could simultaneously be the freshest thing since sliced bread
       | _and_ Meta could do the most masterful job at baking, slicing
       | _and_ packaging it - I would still not use it.
       | 
       | Why not? Simple: I don't trust Meta. And what I mean by that is,
       | that I do _actively_ distrust them in the sense of: if they made
       | it, it must be bad for me and I should not use it. It is a little
       | bit like if Malboro tried to sell you vitamin pills all of the
       | sudden. Maybe they are good genuine vitamin pills, who knows, but
       | I would not be the person to try that out. And even if there was
       | conclusive proof they were good genuine vitamin pills, I would
       | like to give my money to someone else.
       | 
       | Facebook would be a decent product in the hands of people who
       | knew how to wield it and how to earn (and keep) a users trust.
       | Similar any VR they develop could be technologically really a
       | masterpiece, it would howver still be a masterpiece _managed by
       | Meta_.
        
         | bergenty wrote:
         | Just use a fake username. What's so hard about that?
        
           | throwaway384629 wrote:
           | Wait till your profile gets temporarily blocked somehow and
           | then they ask for a photo of driving license or passport to
           | unblock it.
        
           | c7b wrote:
           | You'd be surprised how hard it is to not be tracked by
           | FB/Meta (and a bunch of other organisations), even if you
           | don't sign up at all.
        
           | kwyjibo_hunter wrote:
           | That still contributes to the bad thing existing.
        
           | atoav wrote:
           | You really think a username obsfuscates your behaviour at 60
           | frames per second?
        
           | parker_mountain wrote:
           | Do you really think you could use a tool that is, by its own
           | admission, expressly designed for collaborative experiences
           | without giving up your implicit identity?
           | 
           | The answer, by the way, is no. Facebook has had highly-
           | accurate "shadow profiles" for people who do not use their
           | service for over a decade.
           | 
           | Having a basic interaction graph, geo-location data, and
           | being in the income band able to afford a $1500 headset
           | begins to narrow down people a lot faster than you think. Not
           | to mention the headset is technically capable of gathering
           | skin tone (easily mapped by the hand recognition), IP
           | address, height, and even performing facial recognition.
           | 
           | Using a fake username achieves nothing. Unless you use it for
           | sideloaded, offline, single player games and nothing else -
           | at which point, the pro headset doesn't really make sense.
        
           | sneak wrote:
           | And a payment card (which you can't get without strong
           | identity in the USA)?
           | 
           | What about phone number and IP?
           | 
           | Your friends list also probably uniquely links the account to
           | your shadow profile which has your real name and address
           | bought from data brokers.
           | 
           | Don't forget that Facebook has your name/phone number from
           | all of your friends' phones who gave FB/WhatsApp contacts
           | permission. Friend enough of them and they'll know it's you.
           | 
           | Also, they have the plaintext of all of your chats with your
           | friends, including that initial "hey it's me bob" intro
           | message.
        
           | floatinglotus wrote:
           | It's cute that you think that would hide your identity.
        
         | mrhands556 wrote:
         | I'm amazed at the level of distrust and fud from meta when the
         | other side of the coin, google, is much more invasive and
         | people generally enjoy opting into the google ecosystem.
         | 
         | Gmail is reading all of your emails, google maps knows
         | everywhere you've been and are probably going to go to, etc
        
       | alexyz12 wrote:
       | Maybe to us but to the next generation no. And that's who's gonna
       | use it.
        
         | lampshades wrote:
         | A bunch of old people deriding VR while kids love it? Probably
         | safe to ignore the old people at this point (yes, you, 30 year
         | olds).
         | 
         | I ask every kid that comes over to baby sit for me the same
         | thing: 1. What do kinda think of VR and do you want to try this
         | headset? 2. What do kids think of cryptocurrencies and NFTs?
         | 
         | I don't have a lot of data points, but VR excites kids, they
         | know what NFTs are, and they are ambivalent about
         | cryptocurrency.
        
           | the-printer wrote:
           | Not sure why this is downvoted.
           | 
           | The kids of today were implicitly groomed for virtual reality
           | by way of 1.5+ years of Zoom-based educations, where they
           | were already communicating as talking torsos displayed on a
           | screen.
           | 
           | This is the same generation who is also being subconsciously
           | prepared for greater state-sanctioned surveillance by way of
           | their parents affixing AirTags to themselves and their
           | belongings.
           | 
           | It's not about what you catch in the wash...but what you
           | catch in the rinse.
        
           | ethanbond wrote:
           | VR has excited kids for the last, what, 60 years? The reason
           | adults are jaded by it is not because adults are lame but
           | because VR continues to be lame _despite_ all the decades-
           | long optimism around it.
        
             | rapind wrote:
             | Can confirm. VR has already been exciting twice in my
             | lifetime and it ended up sucking both times. I'm still
             | hopeful though (but not for meta).
        
           | c7b wrote:
           | Product category X being successful is not the same as
           | company Y being successful at X, though. You've only made a
           | case for the former so far.
        
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       (page generated 2022-10-11 23:01 UTC)