[HN Gopher] Saudi Arabia sentences tribesmen to death for resist...
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Saudi Arabia sentences tribesmen to death for resisting
displacement
Author : walterbell
Score : 131 points
Date : 2022-10-10 17:41 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.middleeasteye.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.middleeasteye.net)
| SimianSci wrote:
| In my eyes this appears to be further evidence as to why a
| combination or extreme wealth inequality and centralized
| authority is counterproductive to a nation's continued
| prosperity.
|
| For all its concentration of wealth and authority, Saudia Arabia
| is clearly squandering its power in favor of misguided projects
| of ego. I do not see a long-term future for a government such as
| this which has decided to behave in the same manner as a spoiled
| mewling child.
| [deleted]
| burntbridge wrote:
| This should be a reminder that the U.S. cares nothing for human
| rights violations and whenever it voices such complaints it does
| so for other selfish Geopolitical reasons that are maybe not
| revealed. This goes for any of the other Geopolitical powers as
| well. Let's not be useful idiots.
| the_optimist wrote:
| The US is not monolitic. People who characterize it thusly do
| so do not capture the intentional-by-design unstable nature of
| the system. It remains, nonetheless, up to to 'us' to be not
| useful idiots.
| etaioinshrdlu wrote:
| I'm wondering why the USA hasn't used its military muscle to
| force regime change in Saudi Arabia. They have valuable
| resources, and I don't think any major country would stand in the
| USA's way.
|
| The people already live under a brutal repressive dictatorship.
| Why not replace it with something more tolerable?
|
| My best guess is that doing so would dramatically increase
| terrorism in the region.
|
| Venezuela would be another area in need of intervention, IMO.
|
| Update: I'm as anti-war as it gets, but consider: when is there a
| moral imperative to act? If you could stop the Khmer Rouge in
| Cambodia, should you? If you can stop your neighbor from going on
| a murdering spree, should you?
| kingofpandora wrote:
| Why would the USA care? They get everything they want from
| Saudi, with some bad press as the only downside.
|
| You don't actually think regime change is ever about how
| repressive the government is.
| dontlaugh wrote:
| Why would the US destroy one of its two major allies in the
| area and the very source of petrodollars?
|
| The US does regime change only against countries that resist
| exploitation. The rhetoric about human rights or dictatorship
| is just that.
| etaioinshrdlu wrote:
| If we install a puppet regime there, they are still an ally
| by definition.
| [deleted]
| dontlaugh wrote:
| Maybe, it wouldn't be guaranteed to be functional.
|
| And why invest any effort and the considerable risk to
| change the situation? The US ruling class already has the
| best ally they could wish for.
| coffeefirst wrote:
| That was the plan for Iraq. It turns out nation building is
| a lot harder than killing the bad guys.
| seer-zig wrote:
| Ah yes, the typical US solution: bomb people into submission,
| then wonder why they're hated so much.
| boeingUH60 wrote:
| Why should they? The U.S. has left every country of recent
| military intervention in a much worst state than before they
| came in.
|
| It's honestly scary to see someone suggesting this, even if I'm
| no fan of Saudi Arabia.
| snapcaster wrote:
| Are you a soldier? Are you going to be the one invaded?
| "intervention" is even such a bloodless euphemism for sending
| men with guns, bombs, drone strikes, murder, rape, looting to
| another place. You should be ashamed of yourself for saying
| something like this so glibly like it was a change to some
| programming technology or something
| jshorty wrote:
| Especially sad given that, in my opinion, this project is doomed
| to fail anyway-- a 21st century Tower of Babel. The plans for a
| year-round ski resort seem especially ridiculous given the
| relatively mild climate in the Sarawat mountains.
| hinkley wrote:
| The tricky thing about calling something a Tower of Babel is
| that it's one thing to build the first one, it's quite
| something else to build a second knowing about the first. This
| linear city idea is worse than the planned city they built in,
| Brazil? That was more 2 dimensional at least.
|
| So this one goes up instead of out, but you'll notice for
| instance the gap for the stadium. Stadiums are a bottleneck in
| regular cities. All traffic in the whole city has to drive past
| the stadium if they want to get somewhere on the other side,
| and with the gaps it's a double choke point.
|
| The Architect's Sketch, Monty Python:
|
| "Are you proposing to slaughter our tenants?" "... does that
| not fit in with your plan?" "[...] no it's just that we wanted
| a block of flats, and not an abattoir" "Yes, well of course,
| that's just the sort of blinkered, philistine pig-ignorance
| I've come to expect from you lot of non-creative garbage."
|
| The other candidate's scale model breaks twice, and catches
| fire and then explodes. They decide that thin, sedentary
| tenants should avoid those problems.
| h4n1 wrote:
| It wouldn't be the first linear city. The idea was popular in
| the early 20th century for industrial settlements.
| Magnitogorsk was orginally planned as such. None of the
| planned linear cities have stayed linear, to my knowledge. It
| only makes sense for when the whole point of living there is
| to operate a massive production line.
| hulitu wrote:
| > Neom: Saudi Arabia sentences tribesmen to death for resisting
| displacement
|
| Whatever they do, they are still our friends and that's all that
| matters. /s
| brabel wrote:
| Yep, they're helping Europe replace some of the oil and gas
| from Russia. Best European friends these days! As long as they
| don't invade a neighbour they're great... oh wait, weren't they
| heavily involved in the worst war in the world at present, in
| Yemen, with over 150k dead and the prospect of 10 million dead
| of starvation directly caused by that [1]?! Right, but those
| people dying are not white European so no one gives a shit.
|
| [1]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemeni_Civil_War_(2014%E2%80%9...
| selectodude wrote:
| They're really stretching that friendship right now by cutting
| output to bail out Russia.
| beloch wrote:
| They're actually importing Russian oil for domestic use to
| free up more of their own for export.
|
| https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/exclusive-saudi-
| arab...
| hondo77 wrote:
| > They're actually importing Russian oil for domestic use
| to _bail out Russia_.
|
| FTFY.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _they are still our friends_
|
| If you care about this, now is the time to call your
| representatives. There is a sea change underway in Congress on
| Riyadh [1]. It's on a precipice. This isn't campaign-issue
| material. If Americans don't care to reach out, the _status
| quo_ will hold.
|
| [1] https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/09/murphy-saudi-
| arabia...
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| Not sure calling your congressperson will have a lot of
| effect. Do everything you can to minimize your use of oil. If
| enough of us do that then oil prices will go down and that
| will effect SA.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _Not sure calling your congressperson will have a lot of
| effect_
|
| It does because most people don't do it. So you get aides
| tallying phone calls to help an elected take a position on
| a fringe issue (Saudi relations are fringe in most
| districts and states) possibly a day or two before the
| vote.
|
| > _Do everything you can to minimize your use of oil_
|
| This is harder and less effective. (You should still do it,
| for the environment.)
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| Ok, so you call your congressman and tell them you don't
| like SA and that we should... do what? Have our
| ambassador file a protest? That's going to be effective
| how?
|
| Yes, using less oil is harder than calling your
| congressperson because you actually have to change
| behavior and perhaps live with some inconvenience. But
| it's hard to see how it's _less_ effective at this point.
|
| Go ahead and to both. The call is easy. But the
| underlying reason that the US has been overly
| accommodating to SA (including selling them military
| equipment) is because we are heavily dependent on oil and
| oil is a global market so we need SA to keep production
| up.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _so you call your congressman and tell them you don 't
| like SA and that we should... do what?_
|
| Unless you know the policy space, expressing a broad
| position is enough. If you know something about the
| policy space, _e.g._ see the _Politico_ article in my
| last comment, you can specify bills. But that's
| complicated and prone to misinterpretation and generally
| only productive when coordinated.
|
| > _it 's hard to see how it's less effective_
|
| Oil demand is elastic [1]. Its supply is manipulated. A
| barrel of oil not consumed by you reduces marginal prices
| and cracking spreads. That, in turn, spurs demand. For
| Riyadh, it would take a massive amount of demand
| destruction to him up their revenues given their
| influence over OPEC.
|
| [1] https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/44920224/Dynami
| c_panel...
| selectodude wrote:
| We should cut them off militarily. They buy American
| weapons because they have infinite money and the
| Americans have the best shit. That's what the bill
| floating through Congress is trying to accomplish.
| Calling your congressman to tell them to vote yes on
| cutting off Saudi can move the needle here.
| petre wrote:
| As long as we use their oil, it doesn't accomplish much.
| President Biden practically begged them to increase oil
| production in the wake of the Russia/Ukraine war and they
| refused. It's time the US at least stops approving weapons
| sales to SA.
| datavirtue wrote:
| Everybody already knows about the impending breakup. All that's
| left is for the two parties to make it official.
|
| The US is tired of the relationship, the Saudis are sort of
| getting along with Israel, and they are quipping about how they
| can get thier weapons from Russia.
| rany_ wrote:
| The thing I find most heartbreaking is that I'm 99% sure this
| will go the way of the Jeddah Tower (too much
| corruption/dictatorship for clever plans to be made and the
| project gets cancelled).
|
| It's also not the smartest project, a quick look at their website
| shows you genius ideas like this 170km long line they want to
| build in the middle of nowhere: https://www.neom.com/en-
| us/regions/theline
|
| Not to mention that Saudi Arabia doesn't even have any issues
| with population density. They are building these cities like they
| have some overpopulation issues, such a waste of money. A shame
| it's not being spent on things that would help Saudi Arabia in
| the long term.
| rany_ wrote:
| Neom might just be the best argument against totalitarianism,
| such stupid ideas wouldn't even be up for consideration in a
| free(er) country. Just looking at the website makes me so sad,
| it legitimately feels like some passion project of a
| megalomaniac who doesn't care for the wellbeing of his people.
| humanistbot wrote:
| I'm going to Godwin's Law this thread and say that the cases
| at the top of this list are probably the best arguments
| against totaliarianism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of
| _genocides_by_death_tol...
| rany_ wrote:
| Well, Hitler had his Germania megacity project to stoke his
| ego. They aren't too dissimilar;)
|
| I guess dictatorships and stupid planning/construction
| projects go pretty much hand in hand.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germania_(city)
| dirtyid wrote:
| If Ryugyong got finished, so will Jeddah. It's not smart
| investment, but in general monuments aren't. Yet, humanity
| learns to appreciate them non the less, even fully appreciating
| the "folly".
| cameronfraser wrote:
| the line looks like the citadel interior from mass effect
| lnsru wrote:
| Sounds like normal day in Belarus or other less democratic
| country. I really don't understand why these people choose death
| over other alternatives. It's not that they didn't know what is
| awaiting them. Killing some protesters is absolutely normal is
| less democratic country.
|
| While Neom project is cool for sure I am not so sure if it's
| clever one. But let's see how this car-less city in a desert
| experiment ends. It's better in my eyes than stealing all the oil
| money and buying yachts for the buddies like russian government
| did it.
| seer-zig wrote:
| Not sure what democracy has anything to do with this. Remind me
| again how many lives were taken by the USA, Canada, UK,
| Germany, et al in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, etc? Note
| that I am not defending any tyrant anywhere.
| [deleted]
| the_optimist wrote:
| Banks and investment managers supporting this megadevelopment are
| complicit. It'll be in your pension fund soon, unless you speak
| up.
| klyrs wrote:
| I don't have a pension fund but they hold a major stake in my
| employer and probably yours too.
| yabones wrote:
| The "line city" is possibly the worst idea of the 21st century. I
| will honestly be shocked if it goes over any better than the
| "world islands" they tried to build in Dubai.
| GauntletWizard wrote:
| I had not read this concept before now, but it really sounds as
| if someone played too much halo and didn't understand the real-
| world math that makes that a "good idea" in space.
| edmcnulty101 wrote:
| Their leader MBS completely got away with murdering Kashoggi in
| cold blood and having absolutely no repurcussions not even
| politically. The USA treats them as a first class political ally.
|
| Most of 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia.
|
| Between murdering reporters, hosting terrorist groups, and
| horrible human rights abuses....There's literally nothing Saudi
| Arabia can do to get any repercussions for anything.
| aerostable_slug wrote:
| > Most of 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia.
|
| Yes. Similarly, Pakistani intelligence knew where Bin Laden
| was. Oh wait, SOME Pakistani intelligence knew. The issue we're
| seeing is internecine conflict and a lack of effective
| governance. Saying the hijackers were Saudis so therefore the
| entire House of Saud is liable is reductive at best.
|
| I'm not defending said House, but OTOH blaming the most public
| power base for everything associated with the country ignores
| the fact that they don't have control over their own power
| bases (much like Pakistan, a total s-hole that I can't wait
| until we're disengaged from).
| edmcnulty101 wrote:
| I wish you would edit your comment to indicate that the
| country of Pakistan is not a s-hole but the current
| government is and possibly also the fanatical religious
| culture is.
| throwaway2203 wrote:
| I'm Pakistani, it's not a s-hole. It's a lovely country full
| of lovely people who are helpless against the burden of
| colonial legacy, corrupt landowners and a way-too-powerful
| army.
| rastignack wrote:
| Lovely people who overwhelmingly support death sentence for
| apostasy.
| jfax wrote:
| I remember Zakir Naik pointing out that the US has the
| death sentence for revealing military secrets and no one
| blinks an eyelid; that apostasy is a kind of treason that
| people don't so much support, it's just a matter of fact.
| stealthcat wrote:
| Religion is easy [0]. Those who commit apostasy are given
| time to reflect and repent to become muslim again, it is
| not like they are not given chance to turn back and live.
|
| [0] https://www.abuaminaelias.com/dailyhadithonline/2011/
| 04/30/i...
| WirelessGigabit wrote:
| Bullshit. In World War 2 when the Nazis invaded Western
| Europe my grandparents joined the resistance. I have no
| respect for people who just let things happen. What's worse
| is all those who flee from Pakistan to Western countries
| are all able bodied males. The ones that evolutionary
| speaking are best set up to join the resistance.
| rayiner wrote:
| It's possible for people to be "lovely" but also the reason
| for why the country is in bad shape. I'm Bangladeshi, and
| folks there are very kind. My dad has stories of traveling
| through rural parts of the country and a villager walking
| miles out of his way to make sure he got back to his car
| without getting lost.
|
| But they're also a big part of the reason why things are
| the way they are. From the tolerance of corruption, to the
| lack of organization. You can say the exact same things
| about parts of the US that other parts of the US would
| regard as "shit holes" (rural Georgia or Mississippi).
| People are very nice! But that's not sufficient for a
| developed civilization.
| Veen wrote:
| There comes a point where you have to stop blaming
| colonialism for the corruption of your own people. Pakistan
| has been an independent country for 75 years.
| AareyBaba wrote:
| It's a country that committed genocide against its own
| people.
|
| "3,000,000 people were killed during the genocide, making
| it the largest genocide since the Holocaust during World
| War II"
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Bangladesh_genocide.
| aerostable_slug wrote:
| That's a fair statement, and I should have been more clear
| about separating views of the government, sects of the
| government, and many of the actual people.
| deworms wrote:
| Israel doesn't even pretend to go through the quasi-legal
| motions, they just bomb Palestinians to the ground.
| [deleted]
| Abderrhmane wrote:
| I have lived in this country for over 10 years, they do the most
| craziest things ever.
| Lendal wrote:
| "Craziest" is not really an appropriate word for this case.
| Awful, or shameful, or disgraceful are some more accurate
| words. Or _insane_ if you want to emphasize the psychotic
| aspect.
| mrwnmonm wrote:
| Like what?
| tibbydudeza wrote:
| I wonder if they will be cut up into pieces with a saw ???.
| nickpinkston wrote:
| If you ever get invited to the "Future Investment Initiative" aka
| "Davos in the Desert", NEVER GO THERE.
|
| More like "Despots in the Desert".
|
| I feel for the Saudi people, but fuck their corrupt, useless
| monarchy. They could at least aspire to be Singapore, but I guess
| 100 gold-plated Rolls Royces and stupid giant infrastructure
| projects strokes the ego more - lame as fuck...
|
| Sic Semper Tyrannis
| nxmnxm99 wrote:
| They are a powerhouse geopolitically, one of the fastest
| growing economies in the world and their citizens are happy
|
| Why would they want to be Singapore?
| sangnoir wrote:
| > Why would they want to be Singapore?
|
| To move up the value chain and not have all their eggs in the
| oil basket, for one.
| Maursault wrote:
| For two, they may want to establish a parliamentary
| republic to safely avoid the fate of those from which the
| Saudi family's ancestors originally usurped executive
| power. Currently, there is only one method of establishing
| a new government in what is only tenuously Saudi Arabia,
| which is using the old ways of sneaking into the palace at
| night with jambiyas and assassinating everyone. My
| suspicion is that this inevitable coup will be composed
| entirely of women.
| LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
| How do woman learn to effectively handle a jambiaya in
| such regions? Are there woman sports gyms teaching self-
| defense, martial arts of any kind?
| LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
| And the tribesmen from the headline aren't 'citizens'?
|
| Just some retarded hillybillies which are in the way of
| 'progress', and _have to go_?
| gremlinsinc wrote:
| So long, I've awaited this honor...
|
| * Looks longingly at my invite to Davos in the Desert. *
|
| * Let's it gingerly slip from my fingers into the fire pit, as
| a single tear falls in the flames. *
|
| /jk.
|
| Sarcasm aside, I don't understand why the West kowtows to
| Saudi's. I feel like maybe they were more culpable in 9/11 than
| previously thought, they are constantly doing shit, that even
| China would think twice about (they'd reeducate and do
| concentration camps, but perhaps not straight up executions).
|
| I know it probably involves money, etc - but we need to put our
| partnerships with others to a smell test, if that country that
| wants to partner up, or do business with Americans has a
| horrible human rights record, they should be on the banned
| countries list like NK and Iran.
|
| If only politics weren't legal organized crime, perhaps we
| could instill some values in our nations leaders and businesses
| to cease supporting despots.
| iancmceachern wrote:
| I will protest this, and their other human rights abuses by never
| traveling there, for any reason, ever.
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| I don't think that not traveling to Saudi Arabia will effect
| them at all. It's never really been a tourist destination
| unless you count Muslims on the haj. If you really want to
| protest then stop using oil. Sure most oil sold in the US isn't
| from SA, but if we started using a lot less of the stuff prices
| would go down and that would effect SA.
| einpoklum wrote:
| I'd say if you really want to protest them, then petition the
| US government to...
|
| 1. Stop selling KSA and UAE weapons.
|
| 2. Reduce or cancel sanctions sanctioning on Iran, Syria and
| Lebanon (regimes the KSA has tried to undermine).
|
| 3. Make public arguments against the Saudi occupation of
| Bahrain.
|
| 4. Yemen: 4.1 Arrange a weapons embargo on
| KSA while their Yemen campaign continue 4.2
| Ensure safe passage to naval and air vessels to Yemen
| 4.3 Send some humanitarian aid to Yemen (they need it at
| least as much, and probably more, than Ukraine)
| 4.4 Recognize the Houthi grievances in Yemen and support
| peace talks and a federated resolution of the Yemeni civil
| war.
|
| 5. Join the ICC and sue MBS' ass for chopping up Jamal
| Khasokgi. (Ok, the US will never do that, it has too much
| culpability of its own.)
| fakedang wrote:
| You're wrong on a number of points:
|
| 1.) While the UAE and Qatar were initially in the Saudi
| camp at the start of the war, they have both since left the
| field - Qatar because their plan was a token response from
| the start, and the UAE because of significant casualties
| (and a petition from the mother of a slain soldier).
|
| 2.) Iran is currently beating up and killing their own
| population for protesting. Syria used chemical gas against
| their own population for protesting. Lebanon is basically
| Iran's little Mediterranean bitch. You would like us to
| unsanction these regimes??
|
| 3.) Saudi Arabia hasn't been occupying Bahrain - KSA and
| the UAE "monitor" it on behalf of the Emir of Bahrain. A
| better way to rephrase this would be: force the Emir out
| and let the people of Bahrain decide for themselves.
|
| 4.) Yes, the West should embargo the Saudis on weapon
| sales. Not that it would affect them much since they'll
| just buy from Russia and China, but that is the moral path.
|
| 5.) Ask the Houthis for safe naval and air passage in
| Yemen. They're the ones causing disruptions in the area.
|
| 6.) Any humanitarian aid to Yemen somehow ends up with the
| Houthis.
|
| 7.) Houthis don't have any "grievances". Yemen has been
| divided between a Sunni half and a Shia half since the
| start of Islam. For the most part historically, Yemen was
| largely Sunni-dominated. It's only recently that the
| Houthis are able to put up a fight, and that's largely due
| to Iranian support and funding.
|
| 9.) Leaving the Houthis alone will only let Iran's
| theocracy impose their own puppet in the area. That is not
| something the world needs.
|
| 10.) Sure, sue MBS, but that's just opening a whole other
| can of worms.
|
| Like it or not, Iran is just as bad as Saudi Arabia. Both
| countries rely on a modus operandi of training terrorists
| and spreading them abroad to cause chaos and fear, and
| ultimately acquiescence. On that front, Saudi Arabia is
| still a better ally, since most of the Gulf monarchies have
| come to the realization that supporting religious
| fundamentalists abroad has been a retarded thing to do
| because they'll return to fuck up their monarchical systems
| later on.
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| > Like it or not, Iran is just as bad as Saudi Arabia.
|
| Indeed. Though there's much more hope that Iran will
| experience some kind of regime change given it's young
| population that's becoming increasingly dissatisfied with
| religious rule.
| fakedang wrote:
| Yeah, that's a fairly recent development, and if it
| happens, I'm all the more up for it. In my experience,
| although the governments of both countries are equally
| horrible, the Iranian people tend to have a much stronger
| moral compass than the Saudi people when it comes to
| things like in the original article - indigenous rights,
| or labor rights of lower class workers, and obviously
| women's rights, etc.
| newsclues wrote:
| If we stop buying oil, if you want to hurt the Saudis, we
| also need to convince everyone else (China) to buy the oil.
|
| If you want to replace oil, make the alternative undeniably
| CHEAPER.
| lambdasquirrel wrote:
| Why the sudden China bashing? China has more EV uptake than
| the U.S., in fact they pretty much invented the electric
| micro-car as a market, because of the density of their
| cities.
|
| The reality is that U.S. is more dependent on oil than any
| other major industrialized economy. We consume more than
| the EU, and we consume almost as much as Asia, despite
| being some small fraction of that continent's population.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_cons
| u...
|
| The Saudis just flipped us off. We _should_ get off of oil.
| nashashmi wrote:
| But if you don't want to hurt the other oil exporters, and
| just hurt SA, THERE IS NO way to do that
| fragmede wrote:
| just put a global tax on oil from SA
| tiagod wrote:
| "Just" get the whole world to agree on something. Should
| be easy, right?
| nashashmi wrote:
| That's not an option for most people
| yamtaddle wrote:
| I've been practicing this form of protest for nearly every
| country, my entire life.
| nonrandomstring wrote:
| They're cooked. Quite literally. Let's see how long that regime
| stays together when the daytime temperature hits 55 degrees
| Celsius.
| klyrs wrote:
| Saudi Arabia will continue to be an oasis no matter the
| change in climate, as long as they have enough oil to burn
| for air conditioning. Construction projects can be protected
| with inflatable tents, for example.
| RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
| Actually, the best protest of Saudi Arabia was carried out by
| Mayoshi Son of SoftBank. He working with such people as Adam
| Neumann of WeWork lit billions of dollars worth of Saudi money
| on fire. A few more years of this, and Saudi won't be able to
| afford to do stunts like this.
| deworms wrote:
| So in other words, by doing nothing in particular. A protest
| where you don't change your behavior in any way and don't have
| to bear any cost is not much of a protest.
| Gene_Parmesan wrote:
| At this point, who would want to? Genuinely. I haven't any
| idea. I'm a huge F1 fan and F1 racing there feels like such a
| bizarre move, and it's one that has almost put me off the
| sport. Dirty money and F1 go together like mac and cheese but
| this feels like a new low for them.
| ethotool wrote:
| And the West supposedly stands for human rights..
| dirtyid wrote:
| Personal guilty pleasure: love me some stupidendously wasteful
| ego driven mega monuments. A mega city in the desert even better.
| Not enough grand architecture by liberal world order. There are
| insideous human costs to everything, and all things considered,
| rare hubris mega construction projects are pretty good
| generational cultural value. Even after they fall into to ruin.
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