[HN Gopher] Kitchen Renovation ideas animation using Stable Diff...
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Kitchen Renovation ideas animation using Stable Diffusion [video]
Using stable diffusion to generate and walk through different
kitchen renovation ideas.
Author : albertgt
Score : 141 points
Date : 2022-10-10 13:38 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
| xani_ wrote:
| I love how it just decided in the middle you should just move the
| kitchen to outside
| nathancahill wrote:
| I mean.. not wrong?
| albertgt wrote:
| i also love how there are a few frames where it has 2 or 3 dish
| washing machines. i need that in my life.
| wolfgang42 wrote:
| I have an aunt who, when she was renovating the kitchen and
| discovered how much custom cabinets cost, had a second
| dishwasher installed instead. It didn't cost much more and
| now she has a cabinet that can also clean the dishes as well
| as storing them.
| yubozhao wrote:
| SD is great now to be "creative". It would be 1000% more useful
| if we can give it a few constraints and still be "creative".
| ToJans wrote:
| I like this idea but I would suggest that you invest some time in
| some UX validation if you want to maximize the potential usage.
|
| I own a SaaS that offers online 3D configurators for outdoor
| structures [1] since 2014, and tried something similar as a UX
| experiment a couple of years back; here is the gist of it:
|
| We offered 20 different variations on the screen at the same
| time, and people had to gradually fine-tune their preference by
| clicking on the one they liked the most.
|
| I tested this in the field, and it proved to be very confusing to
| the end-user, unless you highly constrain the amount of
| parameters that can change at the same time, and describe to the
| user what changed and go step by step.
|
| In the end I decided to ditch the whole idea in favor of a hard-
| coded step-by-step wizard where users can adjust the relevant
| parameters themselves one by one, which tends to work the best
| for the majority of the users.
|
| => My suggestion for you would be to do something similar: highly
| constrain the potential changes, and guide your user step by
| step. If you manage to do this, I think you might have gold in
| your hands.
|
| I would also love to challenge the naysayers who say the
| generated images don't make sense: in my opinion it will only be
| a matter of time before someone starts training or hardcoding a
| classifier that invalidates "wrong" images. (Especially if one
| would be able to generate a reasonable 3D representation of the
| image without too much effort.)
|
| As someone once said in a random AI video on the internet: "Dear
| fellow scholars, I wonder what we will be capable of just 2 more
| papers down the line"
|
| [1] ** edit ** removed the URL, check my profile if you really
| want to know...
| naillo wrote:
| HNs version of ads
| ToJans wrote:
| I fixed it for you
| labria wrote:
| [video]?
| albertgt wrote:
| hi labria, click on the title of the post to view the youtube
| video
| harikb wrote:
| they are simply saying the title should warn users that it is
| a video and don't click with your mic unmuted while in a
| meeting :)
| albertgt wrote:
| oops my bad!
| macrolime wrote:
| I've been playing with something similar and it's pretty fun.
|
| Take a picture of a room then use img2img in stable diffusion
| automatic1111.
|
| Set denoising strength to a value between 0.3 and 0.6. Lower than
| 0.3 and not much will change, higher than 0.6 it tends to start
| changing the whole room.
|
| It can be used without a prompt or use a prompt to attempt to
| describe the room, like a "a living room with a grey couch a
| white table walls with wallpaper" then change parts of the prompt
| to morph it in desired direction, like add a chair something or
| add the name of art styles or "by someartistname". Just having a
| prompt that somewhat describes the room and pressing generate
| many times will also just create a lot of random alternative
| interiors, like in the video. If you want to create a video I
| guess you'd use deforum, but I haven't really tried that.
|
| The stuff documented under img2img alternative test here can also
| be useful if you manage to dial it in properly. This is for
| keeping the image more stable and getting more control of what
| you change. https://github.com/AUTOMATIC1111/stable-diffusion-
| webui/wiki...
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| I love how part of it starts making me feel like the kitchen is
| slowly imprisoning me with less and less space.
|
| It's an apt analogy for chasing perfection and being trapped on
| the hedonism treadmill.
| spywaregorilla wrote:
| Well sir, I think we should remove the ceiling and add another
| row of windows to the kitchen. Thoughts?
| galfarragem wrote:
| As an (housing) architect this is simultaneously amazing and
| terrifying.
|
| In some way, stable diffusion works like the architect mind that
| has seen more kitchens (in this case) than the average person and
| somehow (consciously or unconsciously) proposes a solution based
| on that. Our edge - for now - is knowing what is
| feasible/economical.
| albertgt wrote:
| that is super cool you are in that industry, any thoughts on a
| tool that assists interior design teams/architects on this kind
| of ideation?
| galfarragem wrote:
| It has the potential to retire the average salaryman in the
| creativity field (not just interior design teams/architects
| but specially UI/web designers). Outliers will be outliers
| and choosing one may give the client an edge but the average
| creative may not do much better than this "AI" and as such
| loose the ability to put bread on the table doing "creative"
| work.
| folex wrote:
| Do you think it's gonna be a tool used by these "average
| teams" or like a standalone self-serve product without any
| service human involved? I'd bet on a former, but why do you
| think?
| wizzzzzy wrote:
| One thing I'd say as a UI/Web designer is that often you
| are responding to a unique set of requirements to a
| specific brand / use case / functionality. I can 100% see
| how tools like this will influence and redefine the idea
| phase of a project but at the moment I can't see how it
| will make the leap from something that looks like a fuzzy
| representation of an end product to something that IS the
| end product.
| prpl wrote:
| outliers don't always start out as outliers though, it's a
| skill that needs development usually
| pfd1986 wrote:
| As someone in my field (radiology) has put: It's not that
| doctors will be replaced by AI, doctors using AI will
| replace those who do not.
| ldng wrote:
| And at the same time ... only variation of conformism ?
|
| Stable Diffusion opens a lot a avenues and yet it is somewhat
| "restricted" to what it "knows/understands". Put differently, if
| cars it exposed to is black can it paint them pink ? What about
| even higher level construct ? It can not innovate can it ? Not
| yet ?
|
| Anyways, fascinating.
| cookingrobot wrote:
| For this particular case I'd want it to be even less creative.
| I want it to be able to make designs that just use cabinets
| that are available to buy, and it should know where to source
| them and what they cost.
|
| And only show me lights that really exist and are for sale,
| etc.
| ralusek wrote:
| If you go to 95% of architects or interior designers, they will
| give you designs that are largely representative of current
| trends, which is incidentally what most people want.
|
| Very few people in creative industries are truly pushing that
| industry into new frontiers, and that is actually appropriate.
| Exploring outside the frontier is actually full of failure, and
| far less likely to produce something most people want.
|
| I honestly think that people operating outside of the frontier
| of established creative trends technically have a completely
| different set of skills, and a completely different job
| altogether, than people who create within the boundaries.
| madsbuch wrote:
| You are probably not going to get Stable Diffusion to spit out
| a picture of a car by feeding it pictures of horses.
|
| However, we should not neglect small incremental innovation
| that is created by combining previously known knowledge in new
| ways.
| totalview wrote:
| I read a lot of these posts on stable diffusion, midjourney,
| etc., and I don't want to fall into the classic "I don't think
| this is ready yet" camp, but one thing an Architect will be able
| to do really well which these tools won't is make a kitchen that
| is actually usable. I mean, this thing is basically a corrupted
| Pinterest of kitchen ideas with doors and drawers intersecting,
| beams that make no sense, and flooring that looks menacing. And
| until we have AGI I don't think our program sophistication will
| be able to iron out these "uncanny valley" isms that seem built
| into every aI image generation tool.
|
| Now I know that this tool is just a "starting point" for using as
| ideas, but I have seen way more fabulous (and sane) kitchen
| designs en mass on houzz, dezeen, basically any online blog. The
| technology is cool, but it seems limited. As in we can only get
| weird amalgams of human concepts. All this to say, I work with
| architects professionally, and I do not see this as something
| that will cause their field concern in the near to mid term.
| These programs cannot make drawings with structural suggestions,
| floor plans for the layout they produce, or anything else that a
| person pays an architect for. Just my two cents
| joshstrange wrote:
| > Now I know that this tool is just a "starting point" for
| using as ideas, but I have seen way more fabulous (and sane)
| kitchen designs en mass on houzz, dezeen, basically any online
| blog.
|
| Somehow I doubt those blogs have the same floor plan as my
| house or any easy way to filter for things that would fit in my
| own kitchen. Don't underestimate the power of seeing a design
| in your exact kitchen/space. What looks good in one layout
| isn't guaranteed to look good in another.
|
| > All this to say, I work with architects professionally, and I
| do not see this as something that will cause their field
| concern in the near to mid term. These programs cannot make
| drawings with structural suggestions, floor plans for the
| layout they produce, or anything else that a person pays an
| architect for.
|
| Ok but that's not the point, at least it's not for me. I'm not
| trying to replace architects, I'm trying to figure out what I
| want so I can take it to someone who knows better and say "I
| want this". They can kick back anything that's not going to
| work structurally but I kind of doubt this is going to be a big
| problem as, not to be an ass but, I have a brain. I know where
| the cabinets can go (the same place my existing ones are) along
| with my sink/oven/dishwasher. What I'm looking for is
| designs/colors/etc and how that would look in my kitchen, I'm
| not designing a kitchen/house from an empty plot of land.
|
| As with all Stable Diffusion (and most AI stuff, see CoPilot)
| the goal (or at least my goal) isn't to replace the
| designers/architects/programmers/etc but to automate away the
| parts that waste a bunch of time. For CoPilot that's
| boilerplate or similar code blocks, for this it's letting me
| see designs and (hopefully) tweak or re-gen parts I don't like
| until I get it close enough to take it to an expert. I fully
| understand the "kitchen remodel" tool doesn't exist today but
| it's not hard to imagine what it would look like with image
| input, in/out-painting regions, and a nice GUI wrapped around a
| Stable Diffusion core.
| naet wrote:
| This isn't meant to be a literal blueprint maker- it's an idea
| machine. The advantage of Stable Diffusion is that you can put
| an actual photo of your real life kitchen in as a seed, and see
| the ideas applied to your space. It's not the same as browsing
| through pictures of kitchens on pintrest or houzz, which show
| entirely different locations of different sizes, different
| lighting conditions, or different dimensions; it's hard to
| imagine or apply those ideas to my space if my space is
| radically different. My kitchen is a small apartment kitchen
| with a single window and a narrow space, it isn't analogous to
| 99% of the posts I saw scrolling through houzz just now. But if
| I could upload a picture of it and see 5-10 new cabinet
| arrangements or designs, I might be inspired by one and use it
| as a jumping off point for a new setup.
|
| Someone with zero design experience could run this over a photo
| of their kitchen and realize that their exact real world
| kitchen would look nice with a different set of paneling, or a
| different set of chairs, or a larger window, etc. Obviously
| they have to consult with an architect or other expert to see
| how feasible larger renovations are, it's not meant to replace
| architectural work, but there is plenty of value already added
| as an inspiration tool. In fact it might lead to a lot more
| work for architects, if they can use a tool like this to show
| potential clients a bunch of inspiration for how their kitchen
| could look, without doing any actual architectural work up
| front.
| snek_case wrote:
| The images definitely look good enough to serve as
| ideas/inspiration IMO. A sketch doesn't need to look
| photorealistic to inspire you.
| azinman2 wrote:
| But at that point does it need to be your room even? If the
| results aren't actionable because of constraints, why not
| just flip through images of existing real world kitchens?
| avereveard wrote:
| Well yes a double sink and a six top cooking space look
| great on brochures but it's only when you try to fit the
| fridge, the window and that awkward door that you realize
| you'd end up with a single 60cm working space or the
| corner element won't open or the dish washer door
| interferes with the fridge door or walkable space or you
| can only open drawers standing on their side
| azinman2 wrote:
| GP was talking about inspiration. That doesn't mean you
| get to carbon copy anything.
|
| When the AI blows away support walls and rearranges
| things that can't structurally work, its utility is
| limited too. It can also dream up sinks/fridges/ranges
| that don't exist with sizes that aren't realistic either.
|
| I'm supportive of the general direction but in a model
| that's built for it where all the real constraints can
| actually be accounted for reliably. That would allow you
| to go beyond looking at pics for inspiration into
| renderings you can flip through easily. Bonus points if
| it can approximate cost, including plumbing and
| electrical in rearranging things for where plumbing and
| electrical already are.
| peteradio wrote:
| It doesn't look like this stable diffusion would be able
| to tell you that either. You can see it changing the
| shape (angles) of the room in real time. It does not show
| cabinets at real depth etc.
| zachkatz wrote:
| Correct. In a different field, we're using AI to do the
| same thing but for streets:
| https://twitter.com/betterstreetsai
|
| ...and it's already led to actual change: https://twitter.c
| om/MikeBradleyMKE/status/157083982421467545...
| BizarroLand wrote:
| Yeah, that's what I saw too, a digital mood board with blobs
| of abstract kitchen-like things that you could theoretically
| cut and paste the parts you like onto a digital whiteboard.
|
| Once that part was done, then the designer could use those
| bits and pieces to identify what you like best and cross
| reference that with what is available and what is possible
| within your budget and get you the result that you would be
| happiest with.
|
| With that, the actual designer is still a very important
| piece of the puzzle and this does very little to replace
| them.
| mgraczyk wrote:
| This is not going to replace architects or designers in the
| near term, but it could still transform the industry.
|
| The conversion pipeline for things like this today relies on
| ads, word of mouth, and expensive sales processes. Imagine a
| homeowner uploading a photo of their kitchen and being shown
| hundreds of possible redesign styles. The homeowner can choose
| one to start a conversation with a designer. That pipeline will
| convert way more people than the status quo, and the industry
| as a whole will grow.
| trabant00 wrote:
| I don't think there's any need to be shy in saying this only
| looks cool but it's completely useless. The "starting point"
| for using as ideas already exist - it's the data this has been
| trained on.
| aaroninsf wrote:
| I will suggest that in a critical way, none of us, you
| included, "know" that this is a starting point.
|
| So much of the reaction and subsequent reasoning about such
| tools is bounded (predictably, inevitably, naturally) by human
| cognitive error--in particular, our total collective inability
| to reason with non-linear extrapolations.
|
| We "know" this is a starting point, but even the linear line
| from "nothing like this existed at the start of 2022" to now,
| projects into a "what exists in 18 months" which is itself an
| effectively instant timescale (residential A&D projects here in
| SF are often 3-year endeavors...)...
|
| ...what this looks like for a loose interpretation of "this,"
| is literally unimaginable to us.
|
| One technical thing: I was just telling someone 30 minutes ago,
| in the lats week, my #aiart timeline and feed on Twitter
| started saturating this week with extrapolations into AR/VR
| applications.
|
| The toolchains which will exists in this domain prior even to
| the launch of Apple's long rumored AR goggles are already
| eyebrow-raising. Assuming there is a path to deploy experiences
| onto Apple glass, there's going to yet another infusion of
| energy (cough money) into the precambrian explosion going on
| around ML/imagegen etc.
|
| Don't make the mistake of thinking flaws in proof-of-concept
| first-passes like this (which is already IMO quite compelling
| for ideation), are going to be a permanent fixture or blocker.
|
| If you review the evolution of imagegen over the last two
| years, you can get a taste of how ephemeral most such
| limitations are...
|
| ...and the egregious ones tend to attract a frenzy of work.
|
| To put a point on it, I think you're OK saying "near" term, but
| "mid"... absolutely not. This is just one more place where
| disruption is clearly visible on the horizon.
| subw00f wrote:
| >"uncanny valley" isms
|
| What exactly does that mean? I bet most people would fail to
| tell things apart on a blind test comparing kitchen designs
| generated by humans vs. ai (not counting the "transitory"
| images with blurred corners etc.). Same thing with concept art.
| alar44 wrote:
| Did you watch the video??
| subw00f wrote:
| Yep. I forgot to add that on this imaginary blind test, the
| ai images would have to be hand selected to avoid these
| "transitory" frames where things get blurred and joined.
| wil421 wrote:
| So you are basically proving OPs point. If a human has to
| hand curate computer generated images then the computer
| isn't taking the place of a designer/general
| contractor/architect anytime soon.
| subw00f wrote:
| I never said AI-generated images would take the place of
| human professionals soon. I asked what exactly "uncanny
| valley" isms mean.
| arrosenberg wrote:
| Uncanny Valley is a term to describe things that look
| mostly correct, but are "off" in a way that triggers an
| alarm in most human brains.
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| Seriously???
|
| I'm not talking about "transitory" frames. I'm talking
| about things like the bottom of the top kitchen cabinets
| frequently being missing, top beams being at different
| levels in an impossible "MC Escher"-like configuration.
|
| I definitely could see this being useful in plugging in
| different "styles" to decide what you like, and then
| taking that to a designer or architect to build out a
| real design, but anyone paying attention should easily be
| able to identify the generated images.
| subw00f wrote:
| Now you gave some characteristics to pay attention to,
| and that's fine, but it's not exactly an "uncanny
| valley", is it? At least that does not elicit the same
| effect on me as when I see a CGI of eyes in a super-
| realistic 3D render of a person. I could totally see
| myself missing these details and misjudging images like
| these as human-generated. Maybe I'm just not an attentive
| person.
| ifqwz wrote:
| How come this submission is a link and has text at the same time?
| monkeydust wrote:
| Nice, a short how-to writeup on this (even on Youtube description
| for video) would be good.
| latchkey wrote:
| https://keras.io/examples/generative/random_walks_with_stabl...
| cercatrova wrote:
| Isn't this like InteriorAI by Pieter Levels? You can add your own
| seed image in that one but it's monetized.
|
| https://interiorai.com
| gus_massa wrote:
| Did you start with some stock photos? The photos of your kitchen?
|
| There are a lot of changes in the windows and other stuff that is
| difficult to modify in real life. It would be nice to be able to
| restrict the changes, but it's probably difficult to "explain"
| that restriction to Stable Diffusion.
| albertgt wrote:
| I let it generate the initial start image, but I could see how
| another option would be to guide it with an initial real photo.
| that would be cool too.
| xsmasher wrote:
| This link from a few days ago lets you provide the seed image.
|
| https://interiorai.com/
|
| Same issue though, it may suggest you remove your ceiling or
| move a door.
| vasco wrote:
| Once we can do "more like this", "less like that" in a way that
| doesn't require a 3 paragraph inscrutable word soup for prompts,
| I don't see how this doesn't revolutionalize most industries that
| need any type of quick prototyping of anything.
|
| You could do this for any sort of web / mobile / whatever UI,
| designing houses, cars, any object really, fashion, etc. It's all
| going to be so much faster.
| im3w1l wrote:
| > "more like this", "less like that"
|
| I wonder if those could be implemented as vector addition in
| the latent space.
| yieldcrv wrote:
| I think its either a simpler program with a phrase database, or
| another AI, that all serves as an abstraction to understanding
| prompt sections to steer Stable Diffusion
| FerociousTimes wrote:
| This is still rehashing the same concepts/ideas in circulation
| not producing novel ones nor innovating in this space. Maybe it
| will prove beneficial for rapid prototyping during the ideation
| stage for mass-market products/services in the
| commercial/residential remodeling industry but nothing
| revolutionary.
| galfarragem wrote:
| > This is still rehashing the same concepts/ideas in
| circulation not producing novel ideas or innovating in this
| space.
|
| That's exactly what the average creative professional does.
| As an anecdote, being intellectually honest, most of the
| architects I know (and I know many as an housing architect
| myself), would not do better than this tool does now -
| "creatively" speaking - let alone in the future.
| lijogdfljk wrote:
| I'm also curious how non-novel this is. Ie if A and B are
| both pre-existing individually, A+B might still be
| reasonably novel. Which may be a bad thing honestly. This
| will do some things where a seasoned designer would avoid
| for a technical limitation. Ie A and B shouldn't be
| combined for some logical reason, where as maybe StableDiff
| would just throw pieces together without care.
|
| But still, StableDiff has been amazing in my view.
| Prototyping anything this quickly is going to be a game
| changer. As someone who doesn't think in pictures well,
| this looks to let me mock things up so incredibly well. I
| am so hyped for the refinement of the tooling in this
| space.
| richk449 wrote:
| Seems like a valid point, but aren't 99.999% of kitchen
| remodels rehashing the same ideas and concepts in
| circulation? 99.999% of clothes? 99.999% of furniture?
| FerociousTimes wrote:
| This wasn't a value judgement BTW. I acknowledged the valid
| and productive use cases for this project but pointed out
| that it wasn't revolutionary in creativity or innovation at
| this stage. For me, it looks like Pinterest on steroids,
| very capable and efficient but not mind-blowing or out of
| this world.
| jansan wrote:
| This is really nice, but there are some funny things suggested
| that might not be too easy to realize:
|
| 1. Simply remove the ceiling beams.
|
| 2. Extend the room and place another window into the wall.
|
| 3. Replace wall with window.
|
| 4. Cut room in half and replace one part with garden.
|
| 5. Open room to garden and slowly extend ceiling into garden.
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