[HN Gopher] New research suggests eating early and within a 10-h...
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       New research suggests eating early and within a 10-hour window is
       healthier
        
       Author : Brajeshwar
       Score  : 57 points
       Date   : 2022-10-09 13:44 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (medicalxpress.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (medicalxpress.com)
        
       | jotm wrote:
       | Lol fork off, it highly depends on your schedule and type of
       | work.
       | 
       | I have a very unusual eating schedule right now and have lost
       | nearly all the fat I gained when I was working from home and
       | eating early.
        
       | lizardactivist wrote:
       | Eating less (than the recommended 4 meals per day) seems
       | beneficial too. Lunch at 12 and dinner at 18 seems to work very
       | well.
        
         | copperx wrote:
         | I've always been perplexed by those hours. Having a good
         | breakfast, then having lunch between 2 and 4 seems much better
         | (you can easily stretch that to make it after work, at 5:30 pm
         | or so), as they do in Latin America. Then dinner is optional.
        
           | astura wrote:
           | If I eat breakfast I'm ravenous by 2:00, if I don't eat
           | breakfast I am only a bit peckish at 2 and proper hungry by
           | 4. Eating breakfast regularly also has the downside of
           | causing me to wake up hungry.
           | 
           | No thanks.
        
         | ReactiveJelly wrote:
         | 4? Is "tea" its own meal where you live?
         | 
         | I've only said "fourth meal" ironically as it's part of a Taco
         | Bell marketing campaign. Breakfast, lunch, dinner, and then
         | getting Taco Bell at 2 am on a weekend.
        
           | copperx wrote:
           | Do people work until 2 am on weekends? I've done it only
           | occasionally, but if it's becoming a common thing, we should
           | look into solving it, and not by having a 4th meal.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | xboxnolifes wrote:
             | Third shift exists, yes. But also, work wasn't mentioned or
             | implied, unless you mean the taco bell workers.
        
       | mgamache wrote:
       | New headline. "Small underpowered study is published"
       | 
       | This might mean something as part of a meta analysis, but means
       | nothing here.
        
       | j7ake wrote:
       | Very cool. I guess the takeaway is eating a big meal right before
       | sleeping is not ideal for losing weight (but could be a good
       | strategy for those looking to gain).
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | EGreg wrote:
       | People don't seem to understand yet the far more powerful (and
       | much more complex) mechanisms for weight loss and gain.
       | 
       | 1) Gut microbiome - the flora and fauna can be affected by
       | antibiotics and probiotics, and also when you travel. For example
       | kids given antibiotics early on become more overweight throughout
       | life.
       | 
       | 2) Meat and factory farms - they overuse antibiotics, and the
       | older the animals you eat, the more effect it has on your own
       | aging process.
       | 
       | 3) The brain's ability to burn calories AND regulate the gut
       | brain too, through neuron pathways, is still poorly understood.
       | But it might be a factor of mind over matter:
       | https://nypost.com/2022/09/01/the-secret-to-weight-loss-coul...
       | 
       | 4) Cutting out processed sugars, bread/starches and a lot of
       | other artificial bullshit. Check out Jordan Peterson opening up
       | about his all-meat diet. He and his famoly had many things clear
       | up that were considered incurable, including arthritis and
       | depression.
       | 
       | https://www.doctorkiltz.com/jordan-peterson-diet/
        
         | gruez wrote:
         | >2) Meat and factory farms - [...] the older the animals you
         | eat, the more effect it has on your own aging process.
         | 
         | You're in luck because modern factory farming has made it
         | possible to raise animals in record time. Chicken are
         | slaughtered as early as 6-7 weeks old[1], and beef you get at
         | the grocery store is probably slaughtered between 12 and 22
         | months[2].
         | 
         | [1] https://ask.usda.gov/s/article/How-old-are-chickens-used-
         | for...
         | 
         | [2] https://beef-cattle.extension.org/what-is-the-age-range-
         | for-...
        
           | EGreg wrote:
           | Wow, I didn't know this. Based on your second link, a large
           | number of calves are grown on grass pastures. It seems that
           | in other scenarios, though, they are held in tight
           | conditions. How can we tell which is which when we buy the
           | meat?
           | 
           | https://www.americancattlemen.com/articles/backgrounding-
           | cal...
           | 
           | My main concern is that the calves live a comfortable life
           | and get to do what they want in the grass, and when they're
           | slaughtered it's all over quickly. It seems a high energy
           | diet would give them a lot more energy and enjoyment, if they
           | are allowed to be out in pasture. As opposed to, say, veal!
        
       | e63f67dd-065b wrote:
       | > Researchers had 16 overweight patients eat the same exact meals
       | on two schedules: one with meals earlier in the day and the other
       | with meals about four hours later in the day.
       | 
       | That's all I need to know to stop reading. Drawing conclusions
       | from n=16, on the latest edition of the journal of bogus
       | research.
        
       | TomJansen wrote:
       | Isn't this the classic working schedule? Breakfast at 8, lunch at
       | 12:00 and dinner at 18:00. I think it minimizes snacking
        
       | sdfhbdf wrote:
       | Seems like the thesis might be true for overweight individuals.
       | This might be key information missing from the title.
       | 
       | as per the article:
       | 
       | "Researchers had 16 overweight patients..."
       | 
       | I would suggest to suffix the title with "for overweight
       | individuals"
        
         | stevenwoo wrote:
         | This article lists three studies, one with sixteen overweight,
         | one with thirty overweight, and the 137 San Diego firefighters
         | study that was posted within the last week.
        
       | gnicholas wrote:
       | I've heard the "early" window is better than late. For me, this
       | is very difficult because I want to eat dinner with my family
       | (who all eat breakfast at different times). I still seem to have
       | reasonable success with a 17/7 window that's roughly noon/1p to
       | 7/8p.
       | 
       | Does anyone else have experience with the differences between
       | early and late windows? Or ways to make early windows feasible
       | with a family?
        
         | pbronez wrote:
         | I'm in the same position. Need to eat dinner in the evenings
         | for family reasons. Social elements of food are significant.
        
           | copperx wrote:
           | > Social elements of food are significant.
           | 
           | But easily changeable. Nothing stops you from sitting at the
           | table and having a good conversation, all while eating an
           | apple or two and a glass of water.
        
             | astura wrote:
             | Nobody wants to eat a meal prepared hours ago and reheated.
             | Beyond that, most people feel really uncomfortable being
             | watched by a non-eater while they are eating; if you eat at
             | a different time than your family at least let them eat in
             | peace.
        
             | gnicholas wrote:
             | Eating an apple would ruin a fast, and there's also a risk
             | of giving your kids eating issues because they don't
             | realize that your nutritional needs are different from
             | theirs.
        
         | Mikeb85 wrote:
         | I wouldn't trust it. Tons of Europeans eat early and very late
         | and are perfectly healthy.
        
           | copperx wrote:
           | Very late as in after midnight?
        
             | Mikeb85 wrote:
             | No but like 9-10pm for dinner which is significantly later
             | than North Americans typically eat and definitely far
             | beyond a 10 hour window for all meals.
        
       | dustedcodes wrote:
       | Although new studies are always interesting to some extent I find
       | it extremely surprising how some people are still very surprised
       | by things which we already knew for a very long time.
       | 
       | Since I was a wee boy I remember being told that the healthiest
       | eating pattern is a substantial breakfast, a warm lunch and a
       | light dinner and you shouldn't eat before going to sleep, just
       | like you shouldn't eat before heavy exercise or going swimming.
       | There are numerous health benefits to this and they have all been
       | talked to death so why are we still researching something that we
       | already have the answers to?
        
         | the_doctah wrote:
         | A warm lunch? How does temperature have anything to do with it?
        
           | simonmales wrote:
           | It's more about cold dinner. Theory is you are more likely to
           | over eat a warm meal.
           | 
           | So if you are going to keep to having a warm meal a day. Make
           | it lunch.
        
             | copperx wrote:
             | > Theory is you are more likely to over eat a warm meal.
             | 
             | Eating all your meals cold might be a reasonable approach
             | to weight loss. Wait, did I just invent a new diet fad?
        
         | jaysinn_420 wrote:
         | "Breakfast is the most important meal of the day" was created
         | by a marketing campaign for Grape Nuts. Doing research into it
         | seems like a very good idea, rather than just trusting
         | "intuition", especially if it may just be an echo of that
         | marketing message and not biological evidence.
         | 
         | https://bettermarketing.pub/how-marketing-created-the-most-i...
         | 
         | Nutrition research is hard, mostly reliant on self-reported or
         | animal studies, and the quality has been low. I am happy to
         | have more repeatable and ethical research done to help better
         | understand what really drives our biological systems.
        
         | chiefalchemist wrote:
         | Unfortunately, the wisdom of ages doesn't qualify as science.
         | I'm not agreeing with that, only explaining how are modern
         | paradigm is anything but humble.
         | 
         | Another example is cultures with rituals involving
         | psychedelics. Western-based values dismissed those practices.
         | Until now. Now we have Western-based "proof" of the usefulness
         | of mind-altering substances.
        
           | jrajav wrote:
           | If anything seems to "defy" science, it is really just that
           | it concurs with it or hasn't yet been scrutinized by it.
           | Those examples are also the few that survive to the current
           | day - much like "all the music in the 70s was good." No it
           | wasn't, most of it was terrible, and thus no one bothers to
           | remember it.
           | 
           | And re: Western values, there is indeed some circumstantial
           | entanglement with science, but they're not one and the same.
           | If humanity got wiped out tomorrow, the next intelligent
           | cultures to evolve after us would discover science again.
           | They would not discover any of our religions, customs, or
           | values.
           | 
           | It's very worthwhile to recognize these facts, and it has
           | nothing to do with hubris or humility. Science is discovery,
           | not a personal trait or belief system.
        
             | chiefalchemist wrote:
             | > Science is discovery, not a personal trait or belief
             | system.
             | 
             | Science the theory? Yes.
             | 
             | However, in reality science is practiced by flawed and
             | biased humans. Humans that are influenced by the nature of
             | their context. And then the proof is measured against that
             | paradigm.
             | 
             | Slightly off topic, I listened to this yesterday
             | 
             | "Lera Boroditsky. She studies how the structure of the
             | languages we speak can change the way we see the world."
             | 
             | The point being, science - which depends on language - _in
             | practice_ isn 't immune to influence.
             | 
             | https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/watch-your-mouth/
        
         | ip26 wrote:
         | Even if we know something to be true, proving it to be true is
         | often the first step in answering "why".
         | 
         | Once we can prove it, we can test it and experimentally isolate
         | the key components. This is, for example, how willow bark lead
         | to aspirin.
        
         | malshe wrote:
         | I recall when I was younger, I used to deliberately follow this
         | advice - "Eat breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince, and
         | dinner like a pauper." However, it looks like having a "big"
         | breakfast doesn't make any difference unlike what the
         | traditional wisdom suggests.
         | 
         | From the linked article:
         | 
         |  _If you try to eat earlier in the day, making breakfast your
         | biggest daily meal may not be so important, suggests another
         | study, published in Cell Metabolism last month. Researchers had
         | 30 subjects who were overweight follow two four-week diets: one
         | with 45% of the day 's calories in the morning, the other with
         | 45% of the day's calories at dinner._
         | 
         |  _Researchers at the University of Aberdeen in Scotland and the
         | University of Surrey in England had expected those who had a
         | big breakfast and small dinner would burn more calories and
         | lose more weight. Instead, they found no differences in
         | subjects after they followed the two meal patterns._
        
           | foobarian wrote:
           | Our corner of the world also has a similar saying: "Keep the
           | breakfast for yourself, give half the lunch to your enemy,
           | and let them have the dinner."
           | 
           | However I have a sneaking suspicion this grew out of
           | generations of peasants who needed almost 5 digit daily
           | calories early in the day to sustain their backbreaking farm
           | labor, and helped along by moralizing against lazy people who
           | would get the village in trouble with the local lord or the
           | imperial tax collectors.
        
             | malshe wrote:
             | That's interesting! I see how the manual labor will require
             | higher caloric intake in the morning.
        
         | monetus wrote:
         | Activity after eating puts the sugars in your muscles rather
         | than your fat cells right? Or no?
        
           | jrajav wrote:
           | No. Having enough energy in your body speeds recovery, which
           | eating helps with, but storing vs burning fat is almost
           | purely down to calories in vs calories out. You can end up
           | storing less fat by using energy to recover (intentional)
           | damage to your muscles, or by just spending it (increase
           | calories out) but that equation is still all that decides
           | which way the valve flows.
        
             | monetus wrote:
             | That makes sense, burning is what makes a difference. I was
             | just under the impression that some glucose is put in your
             | muscles for ready use, to push your "cliff" further out,
             | rather than being stored in the same cells that would take
             | them if you were to be sedentary.
        
       | mmastrac wrote:
       | Does anyone have a link to the paper?
       | 
       | I found a similar study from 2020: https://www.cell.com/cell-
       | metabolism/pdfExtended/S1550-4131(...
       | 
       | EDIT: I _think_ https://www.cell.com/cell-
       | metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(22)... is the paper, but this
       | article is kind of blog-spammy.
       | 
       | Paper Summary:
       | 
       | Late eating has been linked to obesity risk. It is unclear
       | whether this is caused by changes in hunger and appetite, energy
       | expenditure, or both, and whether molecular pathways in adipose
       | tissues are involved. Therefore, we conducted a randomized,
       | controlled, crossover trial (ClinicalTrials.gov NCT02298790) to
       | determine the effects of late versus early eating while
       | rigorously controlling for nutrient intake, physical activity,
       | sleep, and light exposure. Late eating increased hunger (p <
       | 0.0001) and altered appetite-regulating hormones, increasing
       | waketime and 24-h ghrelin:leptin ratio (p < 0.0001 and p = 0.006,
       | respectively). Furthermore, late eating decreased waketime energy
       | expenditure (p = 0.002) and 24-h core body temperature (p =
       | 0.019). Adipose tissue gene expression analyses showed that late
       | eating altered pathways involved in lipid metabolism, e.g., p38
       | MAPK signaling, TGF-b signaling, modulation of receptor tyrosine
       | kinases, and autophagy, in a direction consistent with decreased
       | lipolysis/increased adipogenesis. These findings show converging
       | mechanisms by which late eating may result in positive energy
       | balance and increased obesity risk.
       | 
       | Highlights:
       | 
       | "Specifically, late eating significantly increased the odds of a
       | >50 response on the VAS scale of how much a participant would
       | like to eat (p < 0.0001), of reporting a desire to eat starchy
       | foods (p < 0.0001) or meat (p < 0.0001), and of reporting a
       | strong desire to eat (p < 0.0007). There were also increases in
       | reported desire for salty foods (p < 0.0051), dairy (p < 0.034),
       | and vegetables (p < 0.036)."
       | 
       | "During the 16-h wake episode, late eating decreased average
       | leptin by 16% (p < 0.0001) and increased the ghrelin:leptin ratio
       | by 34% (p < 0.0001), consistent with the increased hunger
       | probability during that time, while during the 8-h sleep episode,
       | late eating increased average leptin by 10% (p = 0.0028),
       | decreased ghrelin by 13% (p = 0.0002), and decreased the
       | ghrelin:leptin ratio by 18% (p < 0.0001)."
       | 
       | "Taken together, our results suggest that late eating caused a
       | decrease in energy expenditure across the 24-h cycle, although
       | future studies are needed to verify this."
       | 
       | "...late eating significantly increased waketime hunger,
       | decreased 24-h leptin, had no significant effect on 24-h ghrelin,
       | decreased waketime energy expenditure, and decreased 24-h CBT."
       | 
       | (and lots more -- study is quite interesting)
        
       | candiddevmike wrote:
       | Doesn't mention anything about autophagy, does not align with my
       | worldview.
       | 
       | In all seriousness I'd love to have a big breakfast but I'm too
       | lazy to do it most days. The days I go out to eat for breakfast I
       | end up doing light snacking for the rest of the day because I am
       | so satiated.
        
       | stoplying1 wrote:
       | Oof. I'm not sure this is an optimization I can go for. I feel
       | good running a bit low during the day. I don't know how I could
       | get enough calories in to stay sane, without having to eat too
       | many of them early in the day or break my fast too soon when I
       | inevitably get hungry at night.
       | 
       | I guess it probably is psychological like everything else. Maybe
       | a light breakfast at 7am, a healthy dinner at 4pm, that's still a
       | decent fasting window? I prefer to fast throughout the day though
       | (I'm still actively trying to lose another 20lbs).
        
       | mopeas908 wrote:
       | I feel like a study like this comes out three times a year and
       | still somehow gets a headline. Anyone have a link to a meta-
       | analysis?
        
       | dominotw wrote:
       | Just tired of this shit. I'll eat whenever I feel like. STFU.
        
       | beardyw wrote:
       | I found doing business in Spain ok except they don't seem to eat
       | until about 10pm. That was a real struggle for me - 6pm is my
       | choice.
        
         | tenthirtyam wrote:
         | And interestingly, from personal experience, Spaniards are not
         | a generally overweight population despite eating a late dinner
         | plus a typical breakfast, lunch and even merienda (afternoon
         | snack). What gives?
        
           | PabloRobles wrote:
           | I guess this thread discusses 2nd order effects. The most
           | important factors are still the food you eat (Mediterranean
           | diet in this case) and the number of calories (portion
           | sizes).
        
             | jrajav wrote:
             | Mostly the calories. Number of meals is a non sequitur,
             | especially with the insane caloric density of the typical
             | American meal.
        
       | RDaneel0livaw wrote:
       | This falls into the "safe to ignore useless new research"
       | articles that are constantly spammed out all year every year
       | forever: - battery technology - eating / nutrition - alcohol
       | consumption trends
        
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