[HN Gopher] New research suggests eating early and within a 10-h...
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New research suggests eating early and within a 10-hour window is
healthier
Author : Brajeshwar
Score : 57 points
Date : 2022-10-09 13:44 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (medicalxpress.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (medicalxpress.com)
| jotm wrote:
| Lol fork off, it highly depends on your schedule and type of
| work.
|
| I have a very unusual eating schedule right now and have lost
| nearly all the fat I gained when I was working from home and
| eating early.
| lizardactivist wrote:
| Eating less (than the recommended 4 meals per day) seems
| beneficial too. Lunch at 12 and dinner at 18 seems to work very
| well.
| copperx wrote:
| I've always been perplexed by those hours. Having a good
| breakfast, then having lunch between 2 and 4 seems much better
| (you can easily stretch that to make it after work, at 5:30 pm
| or so), as they do in Latin America. Then dinner is optional.
| astura wrote:
| If I eat breakfast I'm ravenous by 2:00, if I don't eat
| breakfast I am only a bit peckish at 2 and proper hungry by
| 4. Eating breakfast regularly also has the downside of
| causing me to wake up hungry.
|
| No thanks.
| ReactiveJelly wrote:
| 4? Is "tea" its own meal where you live?
|
| I've only said "fourth meal" ironically as it's part of a Taco
| Bell marketing campaign. Breakfast, lunch, dinner, and then
| getting Taco Bell at 2 am on a weekend.
| copperx wrote:
| Do people work until 2 am on weekends? I've done it only
| occasionally, but if it's becoming a common thing, we should
| look into solving it, and not by having a 4th meal.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| xboxnolifes wrote:
| Third shift exists, yes. But also, work wasn't mentioned or
| implied, unless you mean the taco bell workers.
| mgamache wrote:
| New headline. "Small underpowered study is published"
|
| This might mean something as part of a meta analysis, but means
| nothing here.
| j7ake wrote:
| Very cool. I guess the takeaway is eating a big meal right before
| sleeping is not ideal for losing weight (but could be a good
| strategy for those looking to gain).
| [deleted]
| EGreg wrote:
| People don't seem to understand yet the far more powerful (and
| much more complex) mechanisms for weight loss and gain.
|
| 1) Gut microbiome - the flora and fauna can be affected by
| antibiotics and probiotics, and also when you travel. For example
| kids given antibiotics early on become more overweight throughout
| life.
|
| 2) Meat and factory farms - they overuse antibiotics, and the
| older the animals you eat, the more effect it has on your own
| aging process.
|
| 3) The brain's ability to burn calories AND regulate the gut
| brain too, through neuron pathways, is still poorly understood.
| But it might be a factor of mind over matter:
| https://nypost.com/2022/09/01/the-secret-to-weight-loss-coul...
|
| 4) Cutting out processed sugars, bread/starches and a lot of
| other artificial bullshit. Check out Jordan Peterson opening up
| about his all-meat diet. He and his famoly had many things clear
| up that were considered incurable, including arthritis and
| depression.
|
| https://www.doctorkiltz.com/jordan-peterson-diet/
| gruez wrote:
| >2) Meat and factory farms - [...] the older the animals you
| eat, the more effect it has on your own aging process.
|
| You're in luck because modern factory farming has made it
| possible to raise animals in record time. Chicken are
| slaughtered as early as 6-7 weeks old[1], and beef you get at
| the grocery store is probably slaughtered between 12 and 22
| months[2].
|
| [1] https://ask.usda.gov/s/article/How-old-are-chickens-used-
| for...
|
| [2] https://beef-cattle.extension.org/what-is-the-age-range-
| for-...
| EGreg wrote:
| Wow, I didn't know this. Based on your second link, a large
| number of calves are grown on grass pastures. It seems that
| in other scenarios, though, they are held in tight
| conditions. How can we tell which is which when we buy the
| meat?
|
| https://www.americancattlemen.com/articles/backgrounding-
| cal...
|
| My main concern is that the calves live a comfortable life
| and get to do what they want in the grass, and when they're
| slaughtered it's all over quickly. It seems a high energy
| diet would give them a lot more energy and enjoyment, if they
| are allowed to be out in pasture. As opposed to, say, veal!
| e63f67dd-065b wrote:
| > Researchers had 16 overweight patients eat the same exact meals
| on two schedules: one with meals earlier in the day and the other
| with meals about four hours later in the day.
|
| That's all I need to know to stop reading. Drawing conclusions
| from n=16, on the latest edition of the journal of bogus
| research.
| TomJansen wrote:
| Isn't this the classic working schedule? Breakfast at 8, lunch at
| 12:00 and dinner at 18:00. I think it minimizes snacking
| sdfhbdf wrote:
| Seems like the thesis might be true for overweight individuals.
| This might be key information missing from the title.
|
| as per the article:
|
| "Researchers had 16 overweight patients..."
|
| I would suggest to suffix the title with "for overweight
| individuals"
| stevenwoo wrote:
| This article lists three studies, one with sixteen overweight,
| one with thirty overweight, and the 137 San Diego firefighters
| study that was posted within the last week.
| gnicholas wrote:
| I've heard the "early" window is better than late. For me, this
| is very difficult because I want to eat dinner with my family
| (who all eat breakfast at different times). I still seem to have
| reasonable success with a 17/7 window that's roughly noon/1p to
| 7/8p.
|
| Does anyone else have experience with the differences between
| early and late windows? Or ways to make early windows feasible
| with a family?
| pbronez wrote:
| I'm in the same position. Need to eat dinner in the evenings
| for family reasons. Social elements of food are significant.
| copperx wrote:
| > Social elements of food are significant.
|
| But easily changeable. Nothing stops you from sitting at the
| table and having a good conversation, all while eating an
| apple or two and a glass of water.
| astura wrote:
| Nobody wants to eat a meal prepared hours ago and reheated.
| Beyond that, most people feel really uncomfortable being
| watched by a non-eater while they are eating; if you eat at
| a different time than your family at least let them eat in
| peace.
| gnicholas wrote:
| Eating an apple would ruin a fast, and there's also a risk
| of giving your kids eating issues because they don't
| realize that your nutritional needs are different from
| theirs.
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| I wouldn't trust it. Tons of Europeans eat early and very late
| and are perfectly healthy.
| copperx wrote:
| Very late as in after midnight?
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| No but like 9-10pm for dinner which is significantly later
| than North Americans typically eat and definitely far
| beyond a 10 hour window for all meals.
| dustedcodes wrote:
| Although new studies are always interesting to some extent I find
| it extremely surprising how some people are still very surprised
| by things which we already knew for a very long time.
|
| Since I was a wee boy I remember being told that the healthiest
| eating pattern is a substantial breakfast, a warm lunch and a
| light dinner and you shouldn't eat before going to sleep, just
| like you shouldn't eat before heavy exercise or going swimming.
| There are numerous health benefits to this and they have all been
| talked to death so why are we still researching something that we
| already have the answers to?
| the_doctah wrote:
| A warm lunch? How does temperature have anything to do with it?
| simonmales wrote:
| It's more about cold dinner. Theory is you are more likely to
| over eat a warm meal.
|
| So if you are going to keep to having a warm meal a day. Make
| it lunch.
| copperx wrote:
| > Theory is you are more likely to over eat a warm meal.
|
| Eating all your meals cold might be a reasonable approach
| to weight loss. Wait, did I just invent a new diet fad?
| jaysinn_420 wrote:
| "Breakfast is the most important meal of the day" was created
| by a marketing campaign for Grape Nuts. Doing research into it
| seems like a very good idea, rather than just trusting
| "intuition", especially if it may just be an echo of that
| marketing message and not biological evidence.
|
| https://bettermarketing.pub/how-marketing-created-the-most-i...
|
| Nutrition research is hard, mostly reliant on self-reported or
| animal studies, and the quality has been low. I am happy to
| have more repeatable and ethical research done to help better
| understand what really drives our biological systems.
| chiefalchemist wrote:
| Unfortunately, the wisdom of ages doesn't qualify as science.
| I'm not agreeing with that, only explaining how are modern
| paradigm is anything but humble.
|
| Another example is cultures with rituals involving
| psychedelics. Western-based values dismissed those practices.
| Until now. Now we have Western-based "proof" of the usefulness
| of mind-altering substances.
| jrajav wrote:
| If anything seems to "defy" science, it is really just that
| it concurs with it or hasn't yet been scrutinized by it.
| Those examples are also the few that survive to the current
| day - much like "all the music in the 70s was good." No it
| wasn't, most of it was terrible, and thus no one bothers to
| remember it.
|
| And re: Western values, there is indeed some circumstantial
| entanglement with science, but they're not one and the same.
| If humanity got wiped out tomorrow, the next intelligent
| cultures to evolve after us would discover science again.
| They would not discover any of our religions, customs, or
| values.
|
| It's very worthwhile to recognize these facts, and it has
| nothing to do with hubris or humility. Science is discovery,
| not a personal trait or belief system.
| chiefalchemist wrote:
| > Science is discovery, not a personal trait or belief
| system.
|
| Science the theory? Yes.
|
| However, in reality science is practiced by flawed and
| biased humans. Humans that are influenced by the nature of
| their context. And then the proof is measured against that
| paradigm.
|
| Slightly off topic, I listened to this yesterday
|
| "Lera Boroditsky. She studies how the structure of the
| languages we speak can change the way we see the world."
|
| The point being, science - which depends on language - _in
| practice_ isn 't immune to influence.
|
| https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/watch-your-mouth/
| ip26 wrote:
| Even if we know something to be true, proving it to be true is
| often the first step in answering "why".
|
| Once we can prove it, we can test it and experimentally isolate
| the key components. This is, for example, how willow bark lead
| to aspirin.
| malshe wrote:
| I recall when I was younger, I used to deliberately follow this
| advice - "Eat breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince, and
| dinner like a pauper." However, it looks like having a "big"
| breakfast doesn't make any difference unlike what the
| traditional wisdom suggests.
|
| From the linked article:
|
| _If you try to eat earlier in the day, making breakfast your
| biggest daily meal may not be so important, suggests another
| study, published in Cell Metabolism last month. Researchers had
| 30 subjects who were overweight follow two four-week diets: one
| with 45% of the day 's calories in the morning, the other with
| 45% of the day's calories at dinner._
|
| _Researchers at the University of Aberdeen in Scotland and the
| University of Surrey in England had expected those who had a
| big breakfast and small dinner would burn more calories and
| lose more weight. Instead, they found no differences in
| subjects after they followed the two meal patterns._
| foobarian wrote:
| Our corner of the world also has a similar saying: "Keep the
| breakfast for yourself, give half the lunch to your enemy,
| and let them have the dinner."
|
| However I have a sneaking suspicion this grew out of
| generations of peasants who needed almost 5 digit daily
| calories early in the day to sustain their backbreaking farm
| labor, and helped along by moralizing against lazy people who
| would get the village in trouble with the local lord or the
| imperial tax collectors.
| malshe wrote:
| That's interesting! I see how the manual labor will require
| higher caloric intake in the morning.
| monetus wrote:
| Activity after eating puts the sugars in your muscles rather
| than your fat cells right? Or no?
| jrajav wrote:
| No. Having enough energy in your body speeds recovery, which
| eating helps with, but storing vs burning fat is almost
| purely down to calories in vs calories out. You can end up
| storing less fat by using energy to recover (intentional)
| damage to your muscles, or by just spending it (increase
| calories out) but that equation is still all that decides
| which way the valve flows.
| monetus wrote:
| That makes sense, burning is what makes a difference. I was
| just under the impression that some glucose is put in your
| muscles for ready use, to push your "cliff" further out,
| rather than being stored in the same cells that would take
| them if you were to be sedentary.
| mmastrac wrote:
| Does anyone have a link to the paper?
|
| I found a similar study from 2020: https://www.cell.com/cell-
| metabolism/pdfExtended/S1550-4131(...
|
| EDIT: I _think_ https://www.cell.com/cell-
| metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(22)... is the paper, but this
| article is kind of blog-spammy.
|
| Paper Summary:
|
| Late eating has been linked to obesity risk. It is unclear
| whether this is caused by changes in hunger and appetite, energy
| expenditure, or both, and whether molecular pathways in adipose
| tissues are involved. Therefore, we conducted a randomized,
| controlled, crossover trial (ClinicalTrials.gov NCT02298790) to
| determine the effects of late versus early eating while
| rigorously controlling for nutrient intake, physical activity,
| sleep, and light exposure. Late eating increased hunger (p <
| 0.0001) and altered appetite-regulating hormones, increasing
| waketime and 24-h ghrelin:leptin ratio (p < 0.0001 and p = 0.006,
| respectively). Furthermore, late eating decreased waketime energy
| expenditure (p = 0.002) and 24-h core body temperature (p =
| 0.019). Adipose tissue gene expression analyses showed that late
| eating altered pathways involved in lipid metabolism, e.g., p38
| MAPK signaling, TGF-b signaling, modulation of receptor tyrosine
| kinases, and autophagy, in a direction consistent with decreased
| lipolysis/increased adipogenesis. These findings show converging
| mechanisms by which late eating may result in positive energy
| balance and increased obesity risk.
|
| Highlights:
|
| "Specifically, late eating significantly increased the odds of a
| >50 response on the VAS scale of how much a participant would
| like to eat (p < 0.0001), of reporting a desire to eat starchy
| foods (p < 0.0001) or meat (p < 0.0001), and of reporting a
| strong desire to eat (p < 0.0007). There were also increases in
| reported desire for salty foods (p < 0.0051), dairy (p < 0.034),
| and vegetables (p < 0.036)."
|
| "During the 16-h wake episode, late eating decreased average
| leptin by 16% (p < 0.0001) and increased the ghrelin:leptin ratio
| by 34% (p < 0.0001), consistent with the increased hunger
| probability during that time, while during the 8-h sleep episode,
| late eating increased average leptin by 10% (p = 0.0028),
| decreased ghrelin by 13% (p = 0.0002), and decreased the
| ghrelin:leptin ratio by 18% (p < 0.0001)."
|
| "Taken together, our results suggest that late eating caused a
| decrease in energy expenditure across the 24-h cycle, although
| future studies are needed to verify this."
|
| "...late eating significantly increased waketime hunger,
| decreased 24-h leptin, had no significant effect on 24-h ghrelin,
| decreased waketime energy expenditure, and decreased 24-h CBT."
|
| (and lots more -- study is quite interesting)
| candiddevmike wrote:
| Doesn't mention anything about autophagy, does not align with my
| worldview.
|
| In all seriousness I'd love to have a big breakfast but I'm too
| lazy to do it most days. The days I go out to eat for breakfast I
| end up doing light snacking for the rest of the day because I am
| so satiated.
| stoplying1 wrote:
| Oof. I'm not sure this is an optimization I can go for. I feel
| good running a bit low during the day. I don't know how I could
| get enough calories in to stay sane, without having to eat too
| many of them early in the day or break my fast too soon when I
| inevitably get hungry at night.
|
| I guess it probably is psychological like everything else. Maybe
| a light breakfast at 7am, a healthy dinner at 4pm, that's still a
| decent fasting window? I prefer to fast throughout the day though
| (I'm still actively trying to lose another 20lbs).
| mopeas908 wrote:
| I feel like a study like this comes out three times a year and
| still somehow gets a headline. Anyone have a link to a meta-
| analysis?
| dominotw wrote:
| Just tired of this shit. I'll eat whenever I feel like. STFU.
| beardyw wrote:
| I found doing business in Spain ok except they don't seem to eat
| until about 10pm. That was a real struggle for me - 6pm is my
| choice.
| tenthirtyam wrote:
| And interestingly, from personal experience, Spaniards are not
| a generally overweight population despite eating a late dinner
| plus a typical breakfast, lunch and even merienda (afternoon
| snack). What gives?
| PabloRobles wrote:
| I guess this thread discusses 2nd order effects. The most
| important factors are still the food you eat (Mediterranean
| diet in this case) and the number of calories (portion
| sizes).
| jrajav wrote:
| Mostly the calories. Number of meals is a non sequitur,
| especially with the insane caloric density of the typical
| American meal.
| RDaneel0livaw wrote:
| This falls into the "safe to ignore useless new research"
| articles that are constantly spammed out all year every year
| forever: - battery technology - eating / nutrition - alcohol
| consumption trends
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(page generated 2022-10-09 23:02 UTC)