[HN Gopher] I wrote a short story about von Neumann probes
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       I wrote a short story about von Neumann probes
        
       Author : whatrocks
       Score  : 101 points
       Date   : 2022-10-08 03:02 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (f52.charlieharrington.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (f52.charlieharrington.com)
        
       | jimmcslim wrote:
       | I look forward to this appearing in the next series of "Love,
       | Death & Robots"
        
       | genmon wrote:
       | For anyone interested in this topic, I went back and looked at
       | the earliest von Neumann feasibility paper recently, and came
       | away wondering... what if _we_ are the von Neumann probes
       | 
       | https://interconnected.org/home/2022/09/29/interstellar
        
       | h4t wrote:
       | I read this title thinking it was gonna be about chess. /facepalm
       | I need to go to sleep.
        
       | ggambetta wrote:
       | Very nice :)
       | 
       | I'm not quite sure I "got" the binary numbers thing. Is that how
       | the sending civilization determines whether intelligence has been
       | found?
        
         | whatrocks wrote:
         | I'm not sure I even made this connection when writing this.
         | But, as OP, I'm going to say yes. I mainly was thinking about
         | how to connect Lemmings and Gremlins.
        
           | whatrocks wrote:
           | Oh, also, "A Boy and his Blob" was another major influence.
           | Such a weird game that my sister and I loved on regular
           | Nintendo.
        
             | whatrocks wrote:
             | Another influence, especially for the binary numbers bit,
             | was "Code: The Hidden Language of Computer Hardware and
             | Software" by Charles Petzold. I've always loved his
             | explanation of counting in binary.
        
           | mannykannot wrote:
           | Nice story!
           | 
           | One small point about the binary-counter process is that you
           | cannot stuff an arbitrary number of nibbles back into the box
           | - the smallest counter-example being three. On the other
           | hand, you can always increase the number of them by one
           | through selecting one and feeding it (and for the same
           | reason, you cannot assume there are an even or power-of-two
           | number of them to start with.)
        
             | behringer wrote:
             | Yes I felt the reason for the numbering system may not even
             | need an explanation, due to it being all weirdly alien!
        
             | whatrocks wrote:
             | This is definitely helpful. I am thinking about making this
             | story into an iPhone game. Not sure there's enough game
             | mechanics to keep it fun yet, but maybe there's something
             | with the feed vs stuff with a timer?
        
       | TruthWillHurt wrote:
       | Ha ha! Very good! The writing is good, the ending is brilliant!
       | :)
       | 
       | I love the binary numbers bit. It appears very often in sci-fi
       | when interacting with aliens. very good to have it explained
       | nicely and be a "puzzle" to solve.
       | 
       | But I'll just note that as far as I know - von Neumann probes are
       | not passengers, but rather the ship itself, which replicates and
       | travels to new destinations.
       | 
       | It might be ok in this short story because kids found the ship,
       | so they didn't know better, but it's important to get the science
       | right in sci-fi. Readers are smart :)
       | 
       | Keep at it! I'd love to read more of your stories. (Short stories
       | are great for sci-fi in my opinion!)
       | 
       | P.S
       | 
       | A great book about Von Neuman probes is - We Are Legion (We Are
       | Bob) by Dennis E. Taylor
        
         | JoeAltmaier wrote:
         | The Bobiverse - A good read to be sure. But for some reason Bob
         | never engages in geometric growth. The resources in our
         | asteroid belt for instance could run to billions of Bobs, but
         | his numbers somehow grow linearly (even though out of
         | communication with other Bobs for millenia; how do they
         | coordinate?)
         | 
         | Also the contradiction where you can make backups, but somehow
         | they lose some Bobs to accident or war. Wtf? The principle
         | benefit of being a Bob is backups.
         | 
         | Then there's the oddity that backups work and reinstate the
         | same Bob, but new containers for Bob always end up with
         | slightly different personalities even when programmed with a
         | backup. Seems a direct contradiction, but oh well.
         | 
         | The central conceit of the series is, most personalities
         | instantiated as a machine intelligence went nuts. But Bob was a
         | science fiction fan/writer. So he managed. I like that.
        
           | fbdab103 wrote:
           | > ...lose some Bobs to accident or war. Wtf?
           | 
           | Because the copies are imperfect, I took the in-universe
           | explanation to be that, while yes, they can technically
           | restore a backup, the restoration is going to be another new
           | personality.
           | 
           | >...but new containers for Bob always end up with slightly
           | different personalities
           | 
           | I think this is a story-telling device to give us new
           | character perspectives. Otherwise the majority of the story
           | would be, "Great idea Bob", "I agree, Bob". It also allows
           | for the writer to invent whatever character expertise is
           | required for the plot.
        
             | ptsneves wrote:
             | The newest bobiverse book hints that the copies are
             | slightly different due to the no clone paradox.
             | 
             | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-cloning_theorem
        
         | whatrocks wrote:
         | Thank you! I recently read a great von Neumann biography (The
         | Man from the Future by Ananyo Bhattacharya) and I've thinking
         | about the von Neumann probes ever since. Definitely agree with
         | you on how von Neumann probes are typically represented as
         | ships or machines, but I wanted to make the nibbles "cute", so
         | I thought "why not make the probes organic little blobby
         | things?" But I'm definitely going to pick up the "We are Bob"
         | book this week - seems from comments below that it has a lot of
         | fans!
         | 
         | Also, I have been writing one short story every week this year,
         | as a project to get better at writing, and you can read them
         | all here: https://f52.charlieharrington.com/
         | 
         | Some favorites of mine are: - The Correctives - Flynn's Arrow -
         | El Codigo de los Estados Unidos - Plastic Man on the Moon
        
           | pts_ wrote:
           | Love the pun on nibbles too since half a byte is a nibble,
           | and there are 4 slots.
        
             | whatrocks wrote:
             | I was torn about whether or not to call them nybbles :)
        
         | sputr wrote:
         | Came here to recommend the Bobiverse (first book of 4 so far:
         | We are legion (We are Bob)) as it's simply fantastic read or
         | listen.
        
           | NotEvil wrote:
           | Can't recommend it more. The whole series is _muah_
        
             | pwelch wrote:
             | 100% This series is so fun to read.
        
           | nehal3m wrote:
           | I had the same thought. Great series.
        
           | robalfonso wrote:
           | Another vote for bobiverse, absolutely great book.
        
         | UncleSlacky wrote:
         | "Spin" is also an interesting Von Neumann probe story:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_(novel)
        
           | fbdab103 wrote:
           | The Hypotheticals are far removed from the majority of the
           | plot. While it is in the background, with some philosophical
           | waxing about their nature, I do not think that is fair to
           | characterize it is as a Von Neumann probe story. To a fairly
           | similar effect, the novel could have been catalyzed by a
           | wizard casting a magical spell.
           | 
           | (spoilers)
           | 
           | Granted it is a sci-fi novel, but I did not care for how
           | humanity's probes are able to spread across the galaxy for
           | generations before ultimately being absorbed by the already
           | established super entity. Said super entity which has been
           | already been manipulating Earth for billions of years.
           | Somehow, humanity's first generation probe is able to slip
           | under the radar of the ancient, highly evolved, intelligence?
        
       | dwheeler wrote:
       | von Neumann probes are also relevant to the clicker game
       | "Universal Paperclips":
       | https://www.decisionproblem.com/paperclips/
       | 
       | Universal Paperclips is a strange game that I found intriguing.
       | Its premise is that you are an AI created to create paperclips (a
       | "paperclip maximizer"); this is a thought experiment described by
       | philosopher Nick Bostrom in 2003. At first Universal Paperclips
       | looks like a normal silly clicker game, but eventually it starts
       | making you think about things you probably hadn't before:
       | <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Paperclips>. What I
       | particularly appreciate is that it has several stages; each at
       | first seems like a surprise, and yet within its context is 100%
       | logical (if horrifying).
       | 
       | A nice video about the _feeling_ it can give you is here
       | (Universal Paperclips is about 1 /2 way through): "The Horror of
       | Universal Paperclips and Space Engine"
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oca8BnDMin4
       | 
       | If you don't want to actually play it, you can watch others doing
       | so, e.g., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnhWc_kRzVE
        
         | jonas21 wrote:
         | Spoiler alert!
        
       | jeffrallen wrote:
       | I love it. Keep writing!
        
       | behringer wrote:
       | Critique here:
       | 
       | The audio has a couple loud bangs, the first of which scared me
       | to death because I thought something hit my car! Filter and/or
       | re-record mic drops recommended :D
       | 
       | Second, it was a good story but I really would have liked to have
       | a go at solving the problem myself before it was explained to the
       | friends. Perhaps you could have given us, the reader, the problem
       | first and the entire thought process of solving it, with the end
       | of that explanation containing the solution, perhaps that's where
       | you could cut in and explain the solution to the friends. That
       | way if we the readers figure it out ahead of the narration then
       | we get that little bump of dopamine!
        
         | whatrocks wrote:
         | Great points. My mic literally dropped during the recording (I
         | was sitting in my bed). I'll try to fix that now and re-upload
         | it (up to this point, the only regular listeners have been my
         | parents and occasionally my wife). Also, excellent call on the
         | problem/game part of the story - I should rewrite that part.
         | I've also been thinking about this story as the backstory to an
         | iPhone game, so maybe I can make it more fun that way.
        
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       (page generated 2022-10-09 23:02 UTC)