[HN Gopher] Paris Metro paper ticket reaches end of the line aft...
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Paris Metro paper ticket reaches end of the line after more than
120 years
Author : tosh
Score : 51 points
Date : 2022-10-04 11:12 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
| JoeAltmaier wrote:
| That's a long time. Some things have been around longer: brothel
| tokens date from the 1st century to the early 1900's. Roman
| brothel tokens were used in London, and Upton Sinclair wrote
| about 'brass check' tokens used in his youth (1919).
| gboss wrote:
| I loved visiting paris this summer but was surprised by how
| archaic and slow the machines were too buy tickets. I also found
| it amusing how there are at least three different
| interfaces/machine styles throughout the system. I made the
| mistake of buying a one way ticket to Versailles. I missed the
| train back home although I was twenty minutes early because the
| line to buy a ticket took forever. At least two minutes per
| customer
| brokenmachine wrote:
| Hey, you came back with a story to tell and discussions to
| have.
|
| I'm sure there's things about your country and my country that
| are sub-optimal, and things about Paris that are better than
| our own countries.
|
| That's the fun in traveling and learning about different
| cultures.
|
| Personally I hated the smoking everywhere, but loved the food
| available. Pain au chocolat and baguettes. Nice.
| johnchristopher wrote:
| > Pain au chocolat and baguettes. Nice.
|
| Pain au chocolat, yes ! Chocolatine, no !
| gigel82 wrote:
| Paper tickets were the only affordable alternative when we
| visited Paris for a week during the summer. There was a "pay-go"
| card that cost a bunch upfront and you could charge it with 10 or
| so trips at a time (and you couldn't share it either, so each
| family member needed a separate one).
|
| I've used Bolt (a cheaper Uber alternative) a bunch, though taxis
| in general don't seem very family friendly (several cars refused
| to pick us up - a family of 4 - because they apparently only take
| 2-3 passengers in the back seats).
| julienchastang wrote:
| Lol. The last time I was in Paris, I must have lost 20-30EUR of
| metro tickets. I kept the tickets in the same pocket as my smart
| phone, and when I took it out of my pocket the tickets would fall
| out with it. Having lived there on and off over the years I still
| have the yellow and later purple tickets, some of them unused.
| Anyway, ideally it would be nice to have an NFC style solution
| where you would be charged on exit (for the metro/RER at least)
| so that you would not have to figure out the proper fare ahead of
| time. Bus would be a flat rate. And while we are at it, make the
| fare system simpler (though some old-timers may remember when you
| needed multiple tickets for long, multi-zone bus rides -- at
| least those days are gone).
| lapink wrote:
| I live in Paris. For tourists or travelers the alternative are
| not really ready. Ticket on smartphone support is bad (only
| specific models, and no iPhones) and unlike London or Brussel,
| you cannot use your credit card as a ticket.
|
| So your only hope is to already have a dedicated rechargeable
| card. But this card is not sold in the automated machine. So if
| you are a tourist in some small station and you realize at
| midnight that you need to take the subway, there will be no way
| to buying a ticket...
|
| Im all for ending those tickets, but the RATP is really bad at
| supporting alternatives.
| countvonbalzac wrote:
| Can't be worse than my visit to Rome last month. All the locals
| had their monthly passes, but all of the tourists bought paper
| tickets. Only problem was the bus to the Vatican had an issue
| with its ticket scanner - it didn't exist. Of course that bus
| got stopped and each of the tourists got a 55 euro fine. When I
| pointed out that the scanner was missing, the inspector didn't
| speak English, but when it came time to pay the fine, her
| English was flawless.
| paganel wrote:
| > the inspector didn't speak English
|
| Next time, if that happens again, you need to be more
| assertive, by going with a: "Ma vai fanculo, vai!" (difficult
| to translate), followed by a more mellow "io non pago
| niente!" (I won't pay anything), and physically try to make a
| way out of the whole situation.
|
| Granted, I'm not an Italian and I don't live in Italy, but I
| do live in a city very similar to Rome in many other aspects,
| and I've seen myself around these parts how foreign tourists
| are sometimes "hunted" for fines the same as it happened to
| you. In many cases those applying the abusive fines go for
| the "easy prey", as soon as you show some hints of fighting
| back they let you go, so to speak, not worth the hassle for
| them (especially as they also know that they're doing
| something very shitty and abusive).
| curiousgal wrote:
| > only specific models, and no iPhones
|
| More like only recent-ish Samsung phones. Complete shitshow.
| kioleanu wrote:
| Hey when all you have is a hammer...
| WastingMyTime89 wrote:
| It's supposedly going to be fixed next year.
|
| It took ages to reach an agreement with Apple which was
| offering extortionate rates for allowing their customers to
| use the NFC chip in their phones in a classic Apple move.
| GuB-42 wrote:
| Paris has about the worst card system I have ever seen. In
| other places I have been to where there is a transport card
| system, anyone can buy a card, usually in a vending machine in
| a convenient location, and do everything with it. Locals may
| have nominative cards that work in the same way, but are also
| tied to an account.
|
| In Paris you have the following (at least you did a year ago):
|
| - Paper tickets
|
| - Prepaid, non-nominative cards that can be used for single
| trips and day-long unlimited travel plans, but no more than
| that
|
| - Prepaid, nominative cards that support day-long and week-long
| travel plans, but not single trips
|
| - Nominative cards that can do all of the above and more, but
| only for locals
|
| - There is also the app, that has other limitations
|
| And there is also some weirdness with connections. Metro to
| train may or may not be possible on a single ticket. Metro to
| RER usually is, but Metro to tram is not, unless maybe if you
| have the right card.
|
| Why can't they do a single card that does everything, like in
| all other countries? Or maybe two, a non-nominative and a
| nominative one.
| mfost wrote:
| I'm testing the beta version of their Android ticket software
| and it works pretty well (and not limited to Samsung phones).
| It should be available soon I think.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| The same is going on here in Barcelona. They have the new
| electronic ticket but you need to pay for it, then get it sent
| to your home and it's not anonymous like most of the paper ones
| were.
|
| You can get one on your phone too but it still doesn't solve
| the anonymity problem. Even if you get it on the phone you need
| to submit photo ID first :( Still a royal pain for tourists
| too.
|
| They also (next year) want to stop the super easy 1,10 euro per
| trip (any trip any mode) tariff. Which also makes everything
| easy because there's no need to do an exit scan. Besides the
| hassle that the paper tickets were (they become unreadable if
| you look at them wrong) I don't really see any positives to
| this new system.
|
| Besides that it has taken many more years and millions to
| introduce than planned. And it's already been hacked before it
| went live because someone didn't change the admin/admin
| passwords on the website... Gotta love government operations.
| ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
| >They also (next year) want to stop the super easy 1,10 euro
| per trip (any trip any mode) tariff.
|
| Do you have a source for that?
| paganel wrote:
| > Even if you get it on the phone you need to submit photo ID
| first
|
| Why do they need ID for city travel tickets? That's just
| crazy. Really crazy. Where will all this madness end? Why
| isn't anyone saying: "Hey, asking for ID data in order to
| travel by bus is pure China-like craziness!"?
| huehehue wrote:
| That's a shame. I just paid for a T-casual with cash and it
| worked beautifully throughout the week despite becoming a
| crumpled mess by the end of my trip.
|
| NYC is moving to a system called OMNY, where you can either
| hunt down a retailer with the cards or just use tap-to-pay. I
| suspect many casual riders will use the latter because of the
| low friction, but it's indeed not anonymous.
| julienb_sea wrote:
| NYC tap to pay is a beautiful system. Seamless with any
| mobile phone, and if you have an apple watch the
| integration is insane -- just put the watch near the reader
| and it knows it's a transit reader and just works, no need
| to even initiate payment.
| johnwalkr wrote:
| I recently travelled to Paris a few times as a tourist. I
| normally travelled by train and metro. But on the last trip, a
| bus was much faster according to google maps.
|
| Researched and knew the bus that would take me to my hotel.
| Checked google and the physical sign at the bustop at Gare de
| L'est. It confirmed you can buy a ticket on the bus. Tried to
| board a bus and got yelled at by another customer and the
| driver for not knowing I have to buy a ticket ahead of time at
| a machine or use "SMS ticket" which I wasn't eager to use and
| probably wouldn't even have worked on my foreign phone plan.
|
| OK, I happen to know from previous bad experience I can't buy a
| ticket anywhere nearby the bus stop but have to go to the
| basement in the station to buy a ticket which is located at the
| entrance to the metro. The lineup is 20 people deep and the
| machine is SLOW to use. Definitely takes 2-3 minutes per
| person. After 10 minutes of googling about cards for tourists I
| have learned that you can only get a card if you live in Paris,
| confirm your address, and even then it takes 2-3 weeks to get
| one. There is a card you can get as a tourist, but it's only
| useful for expensive day passes, not for taking 1-2 euro trips.
| Is there another solution for paying for transit? Maybe, but
| good luck finding out what it is, I certainly could not in 10
| minutes of googling or asking my French friends.
|
| The solution was a 30 euro taxi ride.
|
| Paris the the number 1 tourist destination on the planet, a
| travel hub city, has a great public transportation system, and
| from my experience is a great place for travel and probably to
| live. It's sad that they discontinued a simple metro ticket and
| require a special card to travel that is not readily available
| to tourists (or if it is, I certainly couldn't figure out a way
| to board a bus or predict how to board the metro next year).
| From personal experience, throughout the entire world, I have
| never experienced not being able to board public transit by
| using cash or credit card either on board or from a nearby,
| working ticket machine. I have experienced simply using cash,
| using my tap to pay card, or missing one train/bus due to
| figuring out how to find a local ticket card or transit card.
| Only in Paris have I literally given up and taken a taxi.
| throwaway5959 wrote:
| Paris is so openly hostile to tourists (strangers were more
| helpful than staff). I'm happy to visit everywhere else as we
| do more visits to Europe.
| WastingMyTime89 wrote:
| Paris is fine for tourists. People just expect to be
| treated with politeness and decency which is not how
| Americans generally behave with staff.
|
| Just say hi, please, thank you, ask people if they speak
| English or show a minimum of contrition when talking
| directly in English to show you realise it would be nicer
| to speak the language of the land, everything will be fine.
|
| It's puzzling to me why people expect things to go well
| visiting France without studying what's considered polit
| and what's not. It's the capital of a country. It's not
| Disneyland.
| ekianjo wrote:
| The service is awful in Paris. You dont need to be
| offended by that fact.
|
| Only parisians can get used to it.
| throwaway5959 wrote:
| My wife and I were plenty polite, like I said many of our
| interactions with everyday people were fine. It was some
| of the workers in restaurants and hotels that were rude.
| There was also the pickpocket at the train station
| impersonating a station worker (thankfully we ignored
| them and the attendant in the booth told them to go
| away).
|
| It's OK though. It's your city. We're happy to visit
| elsewhere and I'm sure you're happy we're not there,
| silly Americans that we are.
| missedthecue wrote:
| There is a difference I think between getting a lesser or
| more reserved level of friendliness and getting outright
| rudeness and hostility.
| AdrianB1 wrote:
| Travelling to Paris for ~ 15 years as I have some family
| there, I never, ever used a bus: either RER, regular subway
| or walking (I walked 10+ km several times). I found the
| experience of bus tickets for tourists a hit or miss across
| Europe, either big cities not friendly with tourists (some:
| especially inaccessible with people not speaking the local
| language, mostly in Germany) or positively surprised when
| things were a lot simpler than I thought in unexpected
| places. For public transportation, this lack of consistency
| is bad.
| WastingMyTime89 wrote:
| > After 10 minutes of googling about cards for tourists I
| have learned that you can only get a card if you live in
| Paris
|
| That hasn't been true for years. Anyone can get a pay-as-you-
| go card which you can top up from your phone or a machine
| inside every station. The only issue is that you have to buy
| them either from a counter in a station or from one of the
| numerous approved shops.
|
| You can also pay the bus from inside. I don't know what you
| are talking about. From the tone of your post, you probably
| didn't bother saying hello and just started talking in
| English so the driver told you to get lost.
| ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
| >After 10 minutes of googling about cards for tourists I have
| learned that you can only get a card if you live in Paris,
| confirm your address, and even then it takes 2-3 weeks to get
| one. There is a card you can get as a tourist, but it's only
| useful for expensive day passes, not for taking 1-2 euro
| trips.
|
| They failed you, because such a card exists and is called the
| Navigo Easy, costs EUR2, and you can load individual trips on
| it. Unfortunately the machines don't sell the cards yet, so
| you have to talk to a human.
| jfim wrote:
| It's almost as if the RATP doesn't want tourists to use it
| though. From their website on the pass
| (https://www.ratp.fr/en/titres-et-tarifs/passe-navigo-easy)
|
| > Do you want to take trips on the metro, bus or tram? Do
| you want a rechargeable pass? The Navigo Easy pass is made
| for you!
|
| > Ideal for : Les touristes et les clients voyageant
| occasionnellement
|
| There's also a table further down the page that's only
| available in French that explains which fare combinations
| are allowed (ie. cannot load both a full fare and reduced
| fare on the same card). Although even if one reads French,
| it's not clear what the orange cell means, so maybe the
| RATP just hates all of its customers. :-)
| bagels wrote:
| It's in French, is that why you are saying they don't
| want tourists to use it?
|
| Otherwise, it basically says: Ideal for tourists and
| occasional travellers.
| bombcar wrote:
| I think that's the gist - the table is confusing and
| complex even for a French speaker.
|
| "Tourist" cards should always be "you can ride basically
| everything" and "more expensive than if you know what
| you're doing". I have no idea what a "day pass" on the
| Metro is, but tourists will gladly pay more for something
| they don't have to think about and works everywhere.
| [deleted]
| ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
| The machines are being equipped with card dispensers; you can
| see them in modern machines when they are open for maintenance
| or money collection. They're just not ready yet.
| floucky wrote:
| Automated machines distribute cards for a few months already. I
| was used to take tickets by 10, and got a card last time.
| ghaff wrote:
| Welcome to public transport just about everywhere. It's fine if
| you're a local or a frequent enough traveler to one of the
| cities where you have an app and/or a contactless card.
|
| A first-time visitor who is jet-lagged and may not speak the
| language? Sorry you're not our priority--even at the airport.
| ekianjo wrote:
| More surveillance then.
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