[HN Gopher] macOS scanning and following downloaded QR codes has...
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       macOS scanning and following downloaded QR codes has been retracted
        
       Author : lilyball
       Score  : 128 points
       Date   : 2022-10-05 19:22 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (twitter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
        
       | chrononaut wrote:
       | Prior discussions (when macOS was presumed at fault):
       | 
       | - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33095608 (83 comments)
       | 
       | - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33096540 (102 comments)
        
         | vucetica wrote:
         | This community is funny at times.
         | 
         | A lot of people had their opinions on those two threads, didn't
         | they?
         | 
         | Kudos to the ones who questioned the origin of the phenomenon
         | instead of declaring immediately that the world is falling.
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | It's equally funny to see the collective sigh-of-relief
           | expressed through this post's upvotes. OCSP is real and can
           | hurt you, warrantless iCloud access still goes un-mitigated,
           | but thank God! The QR code IP leak turned out to be a fake.
           | Who knew MacOS was a nice and private operating system all
           | along?
        
             | derbOac wrote:
             | So... I think replication was needed and have a MacBook
             | myself. However, the claim in question was tricky to verify
             | because it was supposedly occuring over the course of days.
             | 
             | I also think it says a lot about collective anxieties over
             | not using an open OS. The scanning wasn't happening but it
             | was plausible and there wasn't really much to do about it
             | other than try to verify it.
             | 
             | I think the episode says less about collective unwarranted
             | paranoia and more about collective vulnerabilities.
             | 
             | I still am scratching my head about the new tweet though.
             | It doesn't say the scanning isn't happening, just that it's
             | not MacOS.
        
               | zimpenfish wrote:
               | > The scanning wasn't happening but it was plausible
               | 
               | I didn't think it is plausible which is why I set up a
               | whole bunch of replication scenarios to verify the
               | extraordinary claim.
               | 
               | > It doesn't say the scanning isn't happening, just that
               | it's not MacOS.
               | 
               | I think it's clear that the scanning isn't happening and
               | that it was just Firefox refetching something?
               | 
               | "I now believe the canary token was triggered [...] by
               | Firefox's "recent" shortcuts on the home screen"
        
             | Tijdreiziger wrote:
             | OK, now how do we solve it?
             | 
             | I've been thinking about this problem a lot. It seems to me
             | you either go full send on the privacy front -> use FLOSS
             | operating systems and self-host Nextcloud, or you want the
             | comforts of modern apps and services -> buy into Apple's or
             | Google's ecosystem.
             | 
             | There exists no option where you get to keep your privacy
             | _and_ enjoy modern technology.
        
               | merely-unlikely wrote:
               | I'd love Apple to build iCloud hosting via your home mac
               | or a new version of the server they used to sell. That
               | way all data sits on and is processed by a machine you
               | control. Admittedly wishful thinking but I can dream.
        
           | aleksiy123 wrote:
           | It's not even at times. It's all the time. Theres many
           | threads where the actual information is sparse but people
           | sound extremely confident about their conclusions. Makes me
           | realise that much of the time people are just making stuff
           | up, there's just nobody to call them out.
        
             | JimDabell wrote:
             | You're not kidding. From the earlier discussion:
             | 
             | > this is the _exact same technology_ Apple lets China use
             | to hunt down their religious and political minorities
             | 
             | > one thing is for certain; Apple doesn't treat privacy as
             | a human right. If you can live with that, then more power
             | to you.
             | 
             | Something tells me people won't use this as an excuse to
             | accuse Firefox of human rights abuses though.
        
         | JeremyNT wrote:
         | I flagged both of those at the time because it seemed more
         | likely to be user error than anything. Bold claims like that
         | need more evidence before publishing.
         | 
         | One thing that any programmer knows is that until you have a
         | way to reproduce something in a clean environment, a bug report
         | on its own cannot be fully trusted. That doesn't mean you
         | ignore the possibility that the reporter is correct, because
         | sometimes reproduction is very difficult indeed, but you have
         | to allow for the fact that something about the user's
         | environment or workflow unrelated to your own code might be at
         | fault.
         | 
         | We are all susceptible to errors in our methodology or
         | limitations in our understanding of how complex systems
         | interact. We should be humble and careful about jumping to
         | conclusions.
        
           | lapcat wrote:
           | In a now deleted tweet, the person was also ridiculing
           | security researchers who were DMing him for more information,
           | painting them as lazy, as if they hadn't tried to reproduce
           | themselves. But nobody could reproduce the issue.
        
       | johnklos wrote:
       | It's nice to see people clarify when they make mistakes.
       | 
       | I'm still REALLY curious about the Facebook useragent. Where was
       | that from, specifically? Firefox?
        
         | resfirestar wrote:
         | Yes, I just tried it and apparently Firefox on iOS uses that
         | user agent when it gets a thumbnail of a page for its "Recently
         | Saved" and "Jump Back In" sections on the new tab page.
        
         | Operyl wrote:
         | A lot of applications seem to use this user agent because a lot
         | of sites were providing embed data only to this user agent.
         | Bizarre, but a needed evil I guess.
        
       | vestrigi wrote:
       | Glad I saw this and now I wonder how often something turns out to
       | be false and then we don't happen to read about the retraction.
       | Next we incorporate the false information as facts into
       | discussions with other people. I mean, I'm worried enough about
       | infosec that I had enough interest to read the story but then I
       | wouldn't have returned to look further into the story, eventually
       | finding out it was false. Instead I'm just lucky to have checked
       | out HN once again today.
        
       | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
       | The retraction is that it's not the operating system doing it.
       | But honestly, Firefox doing the same thing isn't great either. Am
       | I alone in finding it surprising that the recent list actively
       | polls the things on it?
        
         | ale42 wrote:
         | As far as I understand it, Firefox is not reading QR codes out
         | of images and automatically opening links, but rather reloading
         | already opened URLs that were coming from QR codes. Maybe not
         | ideal, but far better than having the OS scan for QR codes in
         | background and loading them without warning.
        
       | zimpenfish wrote:
       | One of the quicker cycles of "extraordinary claim" to "retracted"
       | I've seen recently.
        
         | rnjesus wrote:
         | incite rage with anti-apple sentiment -> get twitter followers
         | and engagement
         | 
         | admit you were wrong and made it all up -> get people to
         | 'respect' you and even more twitter followers
        
           | imwillofficial wrote:
           | I wouldn't say that's a fair characterization.
           | 
           | Besides the ham fisted approach, the original vuln idea
           | seemed reasonable.
           | 
           | They were wrong, it happens to the best of us.
           | 
           | I'd say the potential security risk was worth raising the
           | flag over.
           | 
           | Better be wrong and safe, having many of us learn something
           | along the way, then overly cautious and leave a potential
           | problem unaddressed.
        
         | maliker wrote:
         | Great job by the author for looking more closely and clarifying
         | this was not an issue.
        
       | bink wrote:
       | I hope the Apple security team that was assigned to investigate
       | this report is enjoying a nice beverage tonight. Dealing with
       | unconfirmed critical security reports with few details can be a
       | nightmare, especially when they turn out to be unfounded.
       | 
       | Good practice for the real thing, though.
        
         | gw99 wrote:
         | This stuff happens all the time.
         | 
         | A few years back a company I was contracting for had one of
         | their end users report a high severity security defect.
         | Apparently he signed into the app and thought he had been
         | hacked because a couple of large 6-figure transactions had been
         | made.
         | 
         | After several hours of inconclusive investigation where even
         | identifying the user proved difficult, this turned out to be
         | him seeing the marketing example screens in the app store and
         | having a panic. The app never even got installed and he never
         | signed up for it.
         | 
         | The marketing screens were quickly updated to show something
         | less impressive and with a sample data only warning...
        
           | Exuma wrote:
           | I wonder how big of a company you'd have to be to go through
           | all the effort of changing marketing screens because of that.
           | I can think of the biggest company I've worked for laugh at
           | that and move on.
        
           | Arrath wrote:
           | > The app never even got installed and he never signed up for
           | it.
           | 
           | ....that is some serious "My computer won't turn on. No I
           | can't check to see if the power cord is plugged in, its too
           | dark to see back there because the power is out." energy.
        
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       (page generated 2022-10-05 23:00 UTC)