[HN Gopher] FCC to remove companies from robocall database for n...
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       FCC to remove companies from robocall database for non-compliance
       [pdf]
        
       Author : nobody9999
       Score  : 350 points
       Date   : 2022-10-05 16:19 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (docs.fcc.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (docs.fcc.gov)
        
       | xwdv wrote:
       | Unfortunately whats more annoying these days is getting spam
       | texts claiming to be Amazon saying I've won something or have
       | some package that can't be delivered or whatever, the message
       | includes a shady link I have to click to resolve the issue. I
       | feel like investigating these links and seeing if I can hack the
       | scammers in retaliation.
        
       | LiquidSky wrote:
       | It's pretty bizarre how, at least in the US, we've allowed
       | robocalls and spam to basically make phone calls useless.
       | Everyone I know gets multiple spam calls a day, most people just
       | don't answer their phones anymore unless it's someone they know.
       | Everyone hates this yet no one in power seems to even care.
        
         | samename wrote:
         | "no one in power seems to care"
         | 
         | Isn't this an example of the exact opposite? The people in
         | power and in charge of our communications network are preparing
         | to block providers who aren't following their robocall policy.
        
           | boppo1 wrote:
           | I feel that it is too little too late. Until we pin down one
           | of the heads of the scammy companies that do this and
           | publicly execute them, I don't think anyone will feel justice
           | has been served. Like, 4k-streaming-hanging-in-times-square
           | public, not lethal-injection-with-limited-viewing-space.
        
             | zamalek wrote:
             | > I feel that it is too little too late.
             | 
             | Keep in mind who was the previous chairperson of the FCC,
             | and who appointed him. Jessica has been moving at breakneck
             | speed since she was appointed.
             | 
             | Disallowing connections from the company is effectively
             | executing them, would you engage with a telecom business
             | (legitimate or not) that is unable to connect to the
             | average American?
        
               | lazide wrote:
               | It depends on how long it takes (and how hard it is) to
               | setup a new telecom company connection like this.
               | 
               | If hard and takes awhile, yeah it will help. Otherwise,
               | they'll just churn through shell companies.
        
           | pianoben wrote:
           | Yeah, after like a decade or more of inattention. Even if
           | they somehow block _all_ robocalls, it 's going to be years
           | before people begin to trust their phones again, if ever.
           | 
           | They (telecoms and regulators, all) really screwed up hard on
           | this one. I have to wonder who really benefitted from this
           | broken status quo, besides the spammers themselves.
        
             | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
             | > ... it's going to be years before people begin to trust
             | their phones again, if ever.
             | 
             | This is a very strong point. It's helped me arrive at the
             | conclusion that phone communication is largely an
             | unnecessary luxury. Of course, I believe that having the
             | option of calling someone important to me (or receiving
             | their call) in an emergency situation is difficult to
             | overrate but I've also pretty much entirely limited my
             | verbal phone conversations to that sort of situation. Just
             | about any other situation where I might be expected to have
             | / use my phone is actually a problem with the other party's
             | expectations.
        
           | standardUser wrote:
           | Maybe they care now, but for a good 2 or 3 decades they sure
           | didn't seem to mind.
        
             | jsmith45 wrote:
             | I'm confused. Historical robocalls by legit marketing firms
             | were largely eliminated by the rule banning making such
             | calls to cell phones, combined with the do-not-call
             | registry.
             | 
             | That largely fixed the problem from legitimate robocallers
             | (except the handful of exceptions made in the relevent
             | laws).
             | 
             | The more recent robocall problem (that this order is trying
             | to address) is from literal scammers, who are knowingly
             | operating illegally, hence why they spoof Caller ID, etc.
             | These have mostly only been been a major problem in the
             | past 5 or so years, perhaps a bit longer.
        
             | Alupis wrote:
             | In fairness, this robocall surge has only become a real
             | problem in the past maybe 5ish years.
             | 
             | Before that, you did receive robocalls, but they were
             | infrequent. Now, I don't know anyone that doesn't receive
             | at least one per day... I often receive multiple. My phone
             | has become useless because of this...
        
             | wpietri wrote:
             | The FCC has been going after robocallers all this time.
             | E.g., here's one from 15 years ago that I happened to
             | remember, Cardholder Services:
             | https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-07-977A1.pdf
             | 
             | The problem they're solving now is securing the phone
             | network, which is a harder problem. Important barriers
             | included 1) decades of history where it wasn't necessary,
             | 2) entrenched industry players not wanting to change
             | anything, 3) an ill-considered opening up of telephone
             | system interconnection, 4) a quasi-religious
             | deregulatory/free-market credo popular among a segment of
             | politicians, and 5) politicians who are more sensitive to
             | the concerns of rich execs.
             | 
             | I think the reason it is happening now is that a lot of the
             | people arguing against this have finally realized that it's
             | dooming the telephone call, so their businesses are feeling
             | it.
        
           | treeman79 wrote:
           | Decades late. Probably only because the people in charge are
           | getting fed up themselves.
        
         | wpietri wrote:
         | I think a lot of people would have stopped answering their
         | phones regardless. Letting random people interrupt you with a
         | conversation may have been the best UX available 100 years ago,
         | but I don't think that's the case now. I note that 81% of
         | millennials "sometimes have to summon up the courage to make a
         | phone call", and 75% will avoid calls that are "time
         | consuming". https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/why-millennials-
         | ignore-calls...
        
           | LiquidSky wrote:
           | I don't prefer phone calls either, but you do have legitimate
           | need to receive calls from people you don't already know:
           | prospective clients if you have a business,
           | hospitals/doctor's offices, etc. It's just frustrating that
           | we've allowed the system to go from "this unknown caller may
           | be something important or something I want to answer" to
           | "this is almost certainly spam".
        
             | wpietri wrote:
             | I agree it's frustrating for the people who still answer
             | their phones. I'm just saying that spam calls may not be
             | the primary reason the phone call is becoming useless. As
             | comparison, fax machines did get a lot of spam, and there
             | are still people who depend on faxing. But spam is not the
             | primary reason fax machines died out.
        
       | robomartin wrote:
       | At some point I had this idea that this could be stopped by
       | simply charging for phone calls. This concept isn't fully worked
       | out in my mind; in rough strokes, it goes something like this:
       | 
       | Everyone charges $1 to receive a call. You can setup a system
       | whereby anyone in your address book isn't charged or receives a
       | credit immediately.
       | 
       | For those not in your address book, receiving a call-back
       | balances out the transaction. In other words, if your plumber
       | leaves you a message and you call them back, nobody incurs a
       | cost. It is my guess that, on average, for legitimate players,
       | this per-call charge would be minimal. For others it might end-up
       | being a reasonable cost of doing business.
       | 
       | Another method: On a smart phone it would be very easy to display
       | a screen once you hang up with the question "Charge for this
       | call?" and two buttons "Yes" and "No". Simple.
       | 
       | The idea is that garbage calls from marketing operations or
       | scammers who today can make millions of calls for virtually
       | nothing, would now incur real and significant costs.
       | 
       | Like I said, not fully hashed-out. I just think that without a
       | non-trivial cost associated with making millions of calls, they
       | will continue to happen.
        
         | sn_master wrote:
         | There's a guy who did exactly that by making his number a paid
         | one.
         | 
         | https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23869462
        
       | deelowe wrote:
       | For those as confused as I was by the title. FCC will remove
       | providers from the "Robocall Mitigation Database." This is a
       | database of providers who are certified as complying with
       | robocall mitigation requirements. Failing to demonstrate
       | compliance results in removal from the DB, which in turn, results
       | in your calls no longer being routed.
        
         | pavon wrote:
         | Yeah, this is basically a death sentence for those companies.
         | AFAIK, this will be the first time the FCC has done this. In
         | the past they have _allowed_ other providers to stop carrying
         | calls from non-conforming providers, but they haven 't
         | _required_ other providers to to stop carrying these calls
         | before.
        
           | worthless-trash wrote:
           | Not sure if it works the same way, but a lot of the robocalls
           | that I get are from spoofed mobile numbers, if you call the
           | number back its usually some random dude who is confused to
           | why he's getting so many angry calls.
        
             | RussianCow wrote:
             | Wait, it's possible to spoof phone numbers?! Does anyone
             | know how this works?
        
               | carom wrote:
               | Fairly long video [1] to show how to operate a VOIP app,
               | but yea, pretty simple. Should be harder whenever
               | STIR/SHAKEN [2] goes into effect.
               | 
               | 1. https://odysee.com/@cybering:1/spoofing-call-id-using-
               | voip:2
               | 
               | 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIR/SHAKEN
        
               | mminer237 wrote:
               | STIR/SHAKEN is already in effect for 99% of people.
               | That's what this order is about. These seven small VoIP
               | companies are the only ones who haven't implemented it.
               | (Presumably, their whole _raison d 'etre_ is for
               | spammers.) Those seven companies are currently providing
               | service for all remaining spoofers, so they have two
               | weeks to fix it or they're done.
        
               | bagels wrote:
               | Presumably if they are illegitimate, they will lose most
               | of their customers if they do comply, or they lose
               | network access by not acting. Sounds like this will put
               | the illegitimate ones out of business.
        
               | rolph wrote:
               | one way is with ANI abuse.
               | 
               | the 2nd is abusing callID transmitters and protocol. i
               | think the 2nd way may have been mitigated. it was kinda
               | like butting into line before anyone notices.
               | 
               | if you've ever had a call when your at the phone, and you
               | see a brief flash of a number, that instantly changes to
               | another number, this 2nd method is likely in play
        
               | vkou wrote:
               | When you make a phone call, your phone sends metadata
               | containing your phone number to whomever you are calling.
               | That's what the recipient sees as your caller ID.
               | 
               | Of course, since you control your own device, you can
               | make that metadata contain anything you want.
        
               | dahfizz wrote:
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caller_ID_spoofing
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | It's absolutely trivial.
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caller_ID_spoofing
               | 
               | > Providers which market "wholesale VoIP" are typically
               | intended to allow any displayed number to be sent, as
               | resellers will want their end user's numbers to appear.
               | 
               | I've gotten calls from banks' 1-800 numbers that were
               | 100% definite scams this way.
        
               | dave78 wrote:
               | ..and there are plenty of non-nefarious reasons to want
               | to spoof numbers. I used to have a VOIP setup at home
               | that, when I dialed out, the call would appear to come
               | from my cellphone[0]. Google Voice used to be able to do
               | that too (no idea if it still does). Businesses often use
               | this to have all their calls appear to come from the main
               | office line or a 1-800 number. Or, when forwarding a
               | call, you could make the 2nd leg outbound call appear to
               | come from the original caller instead of the forwarder,
               | things like that. Unfortunately as with so many things,
               | bad actors are going to ruin it for everyone.
               | 
               | [0] I also found out that if I dialed my cell phone
               | voicemail number from this VOIP phone, it bypassed my
               | security code and went straight to my mailbox - since the
               | outgoing number matched my cellphone number, it assumed
               | it was me calling. A quick experiment showed I could then
               | access anyone's voicemail (on that carrier at least) by
               | simply setting my outbound number to appear as their cell
               | number...
        
               | jjtheblunt wrote:
               | > plenty of non-nefarious reasons?
               | 
               | aren't they all variations of "both numbers are provably
               | yours"?
        
               | bagels wrote:
               | Every provider should be responsible for verifying that
               | their downstream customers are legitimate. If they
               | deliver junk on behalf of their customers, they should
               | get banned. That's how this problem gets solved. Your
               | provider doesn't want to get black-holed, and now has an
               | incentive to make sure your VOIP system is legitimate.
        
               | not2b wrote:
               | Such cases could be handled if there were a way to verify
               | that a spoofed number is an authorized use. Your
               | cellphone number belongs to you. Some bank's 800 number
               | does not. What we need is a mechanism that prevents the
               | scammers from lying while still permitting setups like
               | yours.
        
               | fryguy wrote:
               | I mean, that's what STIR/SHAKEN do.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | It is insanely easy to spoof "caller ID", it is slightly
               | harder to spoof whatever the "real source" thing is
               | that's just below it.
               | 
               | But both are not hard, and if you have the right VOIP
               | provider you're off to the races.
        
               | r3trohack3r wrote:
               | Here is an excellent video of McAfee doing it to a fox
               | news anchor: https://mobile.twitter.com/officialmcafee/st
               | atus/13053832859...
        
             | deelowe wrote:
             | There's language in the directive about "shaken/stir"
             | implemented "over TCP/IP."
             | 
             | "STIR is an acronym for Secure Telephone Identity
             | Revisited, while SHAKEN stands for Signature (based)
             | Handling of Asserted Information using tokENs."
        
             | colechristensen wrote:
             | Yes there are ways to spoof caller id numbers but the
             | network isn't confused about where the call is coming from
        
               | tinus_hn wrote:
               | All you need to do is follow the money. Someone is paying
               | for that call, cheap as it may be. And there is no way
               | the telcos would allow anyone to spoof that.
        
         | elliekelly wrote:
         | Well what the heck? This was an option? What took so long?
        
         | adrianmonk wrote:
         | I was confused too. At first I wrongly assumed the database in
         | question was National Do Not Call Registry
         | (https://www.donotcall.gov/). But it's not that at all.
        
           | rolph wrote:
           | yes its talking about a whitelist/auth database
        
         | bagels wrote:
         | I hope they don't stop at small time companies. There should be
         | a credible threat to any, including Verizon, T-Mobile, ATT of
         | removal if they do not fix this problem. It's the only way to
         | see progress.
        
         | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
         | Good.
         | 
         | A lot of "legit" organizations will be affected by this.
         | 
         | I get a lot of legitimate calls blocked by NoMoRobo and
         | RoboKiller, because the dialers they use moonlight as spam-
         | callers.
         | 
         | I try to explain to them, why they couldn't contact me, but to
         | no avail.
         | 
         | There are one or two phone companies that seem to be 100%
         | dedicated to scammers. Can't remember them, off the top of my
         | head, and it would be irresponsible to guess in a public forum.
         | 
         | Robocalls are a scourge. I really wish politicians wouldn't use
         | them, because I'm sure that's why enforcement has been so
         | anemic.
        
           | sixothree wrote:
           | I'm sure those companies will escape unharmed. This is
           | America after all.
        
       | danielrhodes wrote:
       | For the benefit of receiving less robocalls, I support this.
       | 
       | However, what interested me is the ability of the FCC to govern
       | who can interconnect with whom. Could the FCC say that network
       | providers aren't allowed to carry traffic originating from
       | certain IP addresses or hosts? That would certainly have a
       | profound cooling impact on the internet if they could.
        
         | tenebrisalietum wrote:
         | Since this is the old-school phone system, even though IP is
         | used as a transport, SS7 is the actual protocol being used to
         | interconnect providers. That would be the affected protocol I
         | think.
        
           | spc476 wrote:
           | Not so much anymore. I worked (last day was yesterday) at a
           | company that had services on the call path. The legacy
           | product, supporting CDMA, is on SS7. The newer stuff,
           | supporting LTE, is Internet based (SIP over UDP to us).
        
         | kube-system wrote:
         | The law that facilitates this action is specific to telephone:
         | 
         | https://www.fcc.gov/TRACEDAct
        
       | notRobot wrote:
       | Some countries in Asia seem to have a simple solution to prevent
       | robocalls: the person who makes the call, pays for the call. They
       | also seem to have functioning DND (do not disturb) registries.
       | 
       | Doesn't completely stop robocalls, but does reduce them by a lot.
        
         | lazide wrote:
         | That's the rule here too (except for limited exceptions like
         | toll free), but clearly the cost isn't stopping them.
         | 
         | Phone calls are dirt cheap to make after all. (Tiny fractions
         | of a cent a minute even at retail rates)
        
         | Symbiote wrote:
         | It's only very few countries where the receiver pays [part of]
         | the cost of the call: USA, Canada, Hong Kong, Singapore.
         | 
         | I get about one spam call _per year_ in Denmark, and my work
         | number is listed on the company website. However, I doubt it 's
         | only the cost of calls that deters spammers, there are probably
         | other regulations in play.
        
       | ntropic_thundr wrote:
       | I have a couple thoughts/assumptions, and love feedback on from
       | someone who's more knowledgable than me;
       | 
       | 1. Twilio is used for most/many robocalls.
       | 
       | 2. If #1 is True, why isn't Twilio on this list of companies?
        
       | wnevets wrote:
       | is it just me or has the FCC actually been doing useful things
       | for regular people the last ~2 years?
        
       | coryfklein wrote:
       | Thank god, at least some sort of enforcement.
       | 
       | At least 90% of phone calls I get are robocalls or spam. But, as
       | the head of a large household, I can't disable unknown callers;
       | who knows if that urgent care I took my kid to 6 months ago needs
       | to call because I put my email address in wrong and they couldn't
       | bill me, and I don't want the account to go to collections. Or
       | maybe some random clerk from the city needs to contact me about
       | property taxes?
       | 
       | I just do not have a definitive contact list of every number that
       | might call me with critical information, and I'm not confident
       | they would leave a voicemail. Or even if they leave a voicemail,
       | it's often impossible to return a call because the caller is
       | originating from some complex web of VOIP systems and when I call
       | back I get a machine asking for an extension, which the caller
       | forgot to leave in the voicemail!
        
         | tshaddox wrote:
         | Perhaps there are some fundamental problems here if it's legal
         | for you to be extorted by debt collectors because some office
         | worker decided to not leave a voicemail. And O The Irony! that
         | one reason you're forced to make yourself available at a
         | publicly known phone because of the threat of someone extorting
         | you _who is themselves not available at a publicly known phone
         | number_.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | standardUser wrote:
         | We'd be better off with only text communication allowed between
         | unknown parties. It's much easier for us, as humans, to quickly
         | parse text and it's far less disruptive to our lives. I'd like
         | it if calls only occurred between parties who already agreed to
         | that form of communication.
         | 
         | Everyone else, leave a fucking note.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | In my family, text communication is difficult for the elderly
           | and/or English as a second language people.
        
             | lmm wrote:
             | As someone living in a country that uses my third language,
             | texts - where I can use translation tools, or just take my
             | time to read something slowly - are a million times easier
             | than spoken conversation.
        
         | thewebcount wrote:
         | I mean, a legitimate business will leave a voicemail,
         | especially if they want money from you. I normally have unknown
         | callers disabled and don't have any problems. I had to turn it
         | off this week because we have a few maintenance things going on
         | and need to answer calls about when people are going to be
         | coming and going for repairs. But otherwise, I turn it off and
         | have never had any issues with not getting critical calls. You
         | can always turn it on if you know you'll be getting an unknown
         | call in the next 24 hours.
        
           | dreamcompiler wrote:
           | I try to use voicemail. The reason it doesn't work is that
           | although my phone has 128Gb of storage, for some reason my
           | provider's voicemail system can only store like 10 seconds of
           | audio before it runs out of space and asks me to delete
           | messages. My landline's answering machine is like this too.
           | 
           | Apparently there's a special kind of memory just for
           | recording telephone messages and it's as precious as a
           | diamond.
        
             | MikePlacid wrote:
             | The calls that I did not answer all go to
             | https://jollyrogertelephone.com/ They'll send email
             | notification immediately after recording a voice message.
             | 
             | (The main reason I've subscribed to Jolly Roger was to
             | torture robocallers with roboanswers. They had a collection
             | of rather hilarious conversations on their web page. In
             | real life robocallers seem smarter now and drop much
             | sooner, but voicemail feature works ok and I have not
             | noticed any limits - messages are attached to emails and my
             | gmail account is still at 5% or so.
             | 
             | I was thinking of implementing the same idea with better
             | technology, like on the fly voice recognition, which seems
             | possible and should lead to tons of funny results, but I'm
             | too lazy now).
        
           | yourapostasy wrote:
           | I'd like a calendar appointment feature where I specify when
           | to disable/enable allowing unknown numbers to ring.
        
           | orev wrote:
           | This approach just doesn't work when you have a significant
           | number of outside parties and things to deal with. Doctors'
           | offices in particular often have calls coming from many
           | different phone numbers and you just can't rely on white
           | listing them all. Once you get to an age where health issues
           | happen more frequently than an annual checkup, it just
           | doesn't work.
        
             | thewebcount wrote:
             | I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean. My spouse has a very
             | severe and very expensive chronic illness, and has several
             | doctors visits a month with different doctors. We have had
             | no problem with our doctors reaching us via phone. (And it
             | works way better than any of their "healthcare portals"
             | where nurses actually read your messages and deem all of
             | them non-urgent and don't respond.) We absolutely do have
             | their numbers in our contacts so their calls come through.
             | On those rare occasions when they call from some general
             | number behind a call switch, they leave an appropriate
             | voicemail and we call back. They are sometimes vague with
             | the details on voicemail because they can't be sure who
             | will listen to it, but we are always able to get back to
             | them. FWIW, we're in our 50s and have very frequent health
             | issues, so this is not unknown to me by any means.
        
               | jnovek wrote:
               | I'm glad this works out for you, but your experience is
               | not universal.
               | 
               | I have a chronic condition I am stuck with a hospital
               | system that seems to play PBX roulette. I have a dozen of
               | their phone numbers white listed and still miss an
               | important call coming from a new number from time to
               | time.
               | 
               | I hate it, it's completely out of touch, but it's not
               | something I have any control over.
        
             | supertrope wrote:
             | My doctor's office has a privacy disclosure and preference
             | section on their forms. Contacts who can be told info. Ok
             | to leave voicemail Y/N. Full details in VM or brief.
        
           | oefrha wrote:
           | Approximately 100% of my voicemails are from spammers or
           | scammers.
        
           | paul7986 wrote:
           | Not sure if your an iOS user but i'd love to be able to
           | quickly toggle "Silence Unknown Callers," like i can with
           | wifi, bluetooth, airplane mode, the flashlight and etc (swipe
           | up from the bottom menu). Right now I have to drill down
           | three to four steps (menus) to turn it on and off.
        
             | orev wrote:
             | You can make a shortcut that takes you right to the screen,
             | but you still have to toggle the setting. It's a half
             | measure but reduces the frustration a little.
        
           | coryfklein wrote:
           | I have indeed tried this turn it on, turn it off, strategy.
           | Every time it has ended because I forgot to turn it off and I
           | ended up missing a critical phone call; some service person
           | called before coming for a home maintenance appointment to
           | make sure we were present so they could enter the premises,
           | and the call goes to voicemail which I only notice an hour
           | later after they've decided to reschedule fixing my AC to 3
           | days later and now we have to endure the sweltering 98degF
           | weather for 3 more days all to avoid the nuisance of
           | robocallers.
        
             | jchw wrote:
             | If you have something that urgent it's better to
             | preemptively turn it off. Yeah yeah, easier said than done,
             | but as a habitual Do Not Disturb user, this has worked well
             | for me.
        
               | coryfklein wrote:
               | What's the connection to Do Not Disturb? I still haven't
               | explored that functionality fully, and it seems Apple has
               | built it out significantly. I suspect I could benefit by
               | using it better to establish a "at work mode" and a "at
               | home mode", in addition to my current simple usage of
               | "you sure as hell better not wake me up at 3 AM with a
               | notification".
        
               | ryandrake wrote:
               | I do "Do Not Disturb" 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. No
               | calls, no texts, no notifications, no nothing. Yes, Apple
               | has indeed built it out recently. At least on iOS, you
               | can add exceptions if you want, like your favorites, or
               | your contact list, or even specific people. You can also
               | put it on a schedule if you think 24/7 is too extreme.
               | 
               | Honestly, I don't worry about the "urgent call from the
               | doctor" scenario, and I have a family. If it's important,
               | whoever is calling will leave a voicemail. For 99% of the
               | calls I get, it's not even remotely important. I don't
               | structure my life around outlier scenarios. Not having a
               | phone constantly dinging and buzzing for my attention is
               | worth missing the extremely rare emergency.
        
               | ysavir wrote:
               | > If it's important, whoever is calling will leave a
               | voicemail.
               | 
               | How do you test for this?
        
               | amerkhalid wrote:
               | I don't know if this is some sort of convention or just a
               | lot of coincidences but it seems when it is an urgent
               | call, everyone calls twice. And they leave voicemail on
               | the second call. This includes stuff like people running
               | late, calls from daycare, etc.
               | 
               | For non-urgent matters like payments, they call once and
               | leave a voicemail.
        
               | Arrath wrote:
               | Why, if they don't leave a voicemail, it must not have
               | been an important call!
        
               | paul7986 wrote:
               | You can also have all numbers (calls) not in your
               | contacts just go straight to voicemail via the "Silence
               | Unknown Number," feature within the phone settings.
        
               | aaronbeekay wrote:
               | That's exactly what they've been adding, actually. You
               | can also set a schedule for which mode is active or
               | trigger them with automations.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | SPAM calls are annoying but not to the point where I'm
             | willing to basically significantly reduce the utility of
             | owning a phone. I get that some people basically don't take
             | phone calls. But others have elderly relatives, service
             | people for their house, etc. and "just make them leave a
             | voicemail" isn't always a satisfactory solution.
        
               | lazide wrote:
               | I personally get 50+ spam calls on some days.
               | 
               | I'm not in the parent posting chain, but what other
               | option do _I_ have?
        
               | basillo wrote:
               | I would change your phone number. I've had the same 650
               | area code since 2003, and I'll go a couple weeks,
               | sometimes more without a spam call. (or any phone call
               | for that matter - except for maybe the pizza delivery
               | person?)
               | 
               | I don't believe I've received a single spam call in the
               | last 45 days - so your phone number is on some horrible
               | list, I feel for you.
        
               | gnopgnip wrote:
               | The law changed around a year ago with shaken/stir
               | authentication being required. You can enable call
               | filtering with your carrier to block most robocalls based
               | on this data.
               | 
               | There are iphone and android app based solutions that
               | will block more, based on previous reports, on
               | information about the number, the timing. Like HIYA.
               | 
               | You can configure all unknown callers to go to voicemail.
               | Setup an exception if the same number calls you twice.
               | 
               | If you are getting 50+ spam calls a day changing your
               | number is another option. And if you change your number
               | you can more easily block caller ID spoofers that use a
               | very similar number that isn't really local.
        
               | supertrope wrote:
               | Spammers have currently defeated SHAKEN/STIR. A signed
               | call is more likely to be a robocall than not a robocall.
               | This is thanks to shady phone companies that will sign
               | calls for anyone or intentionally cater to scammers.
               | https://transnexus.com/blog/2022/shaken-statistics-
               | september... This is like when DKIM was first being
               | deployed spammers adopted it first.
        
               | crtasm wrote:
               | But once enough people lodge complaints about these calls
               | the shady company will shape up or get their keys
               | revoked, right?
        
               | gnopgnip wrote:
               | It significantly increases their costs though. As in the
               | parent ruling here, a shady phone vendor that doesn't
               | take steps to prevent spammers they will no longer be
               | able to route calls to the US.
        
               | munk-a wrote:
               | While I agree that this might be a practical and
               | effective step... changing my number costs me a lot of
               | money in terms of lost revenue and expenses, I have
               | business cards to reprint and contacts (business and
               | personal) that I'll need to update. Considering phone
               | companies could simply block these calls if they so
               | desired I don't see why I, the customer, need to absorb
               | such a large cost just to keep my life sane and, after
               | absorbing such a cost the robo calls might just find me
               | again.
               | 
               | I receive more spam calls than spam emails and, being
               | familiar with the underlying technical details of each
               | system, that is absolutely ridiculous. Email was built in
               | a time of pure optimism, there is no central switching
               | authority for emails and there is no cost to sending an
               | email other than jiggling some electrons - telephone
               | calls are highly metered and monitored, they generally
               | pass through several organizations that have been endowed
               | with a high measure of trust to police and shepard them
               | to their final destination. There is no reason other than
               | the monetization of the system that these spam calls are
               | allowed to exist.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Yes, the change your number response is total BS. Not
               | just for all of the reasons you mention which are totally
               | valid, but for the simple fact it is just a cat&mouse
               | game.
               | 
               | Phone numbers are not some cryptographically generated
               | string that would take a while to randomly create. You
               | can literally just start at a number and increment until
               | you've reached them all, so that the spammer doesn't even
               | need to know your number. Your number just got reached
               | because it was the next one in the list.
        
               | basillo wrote:
               | There is definitely more to that - I'm on a pretty common
               | 650 area code, and my spam calls have gone down from 1-2
               | / day a year ago to less than 1 every couple weeks.
        
               | MikePlacid wrote:
               | The numbers they call are not necessarily random. I was
               | torturing one "reduce your credit card fees" guy by
               | giving him 3 wrong credit card numbers in a row. He got
               | mad and started threatening me with terminating all my
               | credit cards - which was hilarious because just the
               | moment before he was asking their numbers. But then to
               | substantiate the threat he disclosed what knows about me.
               | My address, my phone, my car make... the only thing they
               | got wrong was my name - they used my son's name instead
               | of mine.
               | 
               | And other callers called me my son's name a couple other
               | times. So there seems to be some database that some of
               | them share.
        
               | ddelphin wrote:
               | RoboKiller app! Works great for me.
        
             | paul7986 wrote:
             | Try to see if they can text you instead
        
               | notyourwork wrote:
               | So let's not use a phone for calling anymore?
        
               | tshaddox wrote:
               | That was probably supposed to be sarcasm, but yes,
               | absolutely, let's not use a phone for voice calls
               | anymore. That nonsense should have sailed 10 years ago.
        
               | paul7986 wrote:
               | sure just not the old telephone system (especially for
               | inbound calls) rather text me or audio or video chat with
               | me through an app where I've added you as my contact.
               | 
               | Ive never received a spam call through a chat app like
               | Messenger before. I have to add them as a contact first.
               | In 21st century the old telephone system doesnt work
               | anymore.
        
               | Arrath wrote:
               | Can we? Sometimes a conversation can be handled in a
               | couple succinct texts without the need to be dragged out
               | vocally.
               | 
               | Other times it can't and by all means call, but do I ever
               | get tired of the awkward chit chat that some people
               | insist on.
        
               | lazide wrote:
               | That's basically where we are at, with the exception of
               | big businesses and institutions often refuse to deal with
               | you except for in-person or over the phone.
        
             | dapearce wrote:
             | I wish you could apply it to specific area codes. The area
             | code of my phone number is not an area I have lived in for
             | several years now. 98% of my spam calls are from this area
             | code but none of the important unknown callers are calling
             | from this area code.
        
               | xigency wrote:
               | I tried to do this manually for a filter on the last four
               | digits. Phones don't really handle a 10,000 number
               | blocklist well.
        
               | supertrope wrote:
               | Switch to a SIP VoIP provider with a powerful control
               | panel. Create a rule that same area code callers have to
               | press a digit to ring through. Since spam comes from
               | random area codes I have this applied to all non-contact
               | list callers.
        
           | subsubzero wrote:
           | Thats what I do, if I don't know the number I have voicemail
           | and if they don't leave a message I just block the number. I
           | have thousands of blocked numbers, to be fair the phone
           | experience in 2022 is just horrible due to the FCC and telcos
           | not doing their job in regulating these criminals.
        
           | erickhill wrote:
           | "A legitimate business will leave a voicemail, especially if
           | they want money from you."
           | 
           | Unfortunately so do the scammers - both bots and actual
           | people. At least my phone will sometimes text-transcribe the
           | VM so I can quickly scan it and delete it w/o being forced to
           | listen to it.
        
         | londons_explore wrote:
         | For home users, there is a simple solution to spam...
         | 
         | Anyone not in your contacts gets sent to voicemail. The
         | voicemail 'greeting' message says "Hi, if you need to contact
         | me, send me an email to [your email address] and I'll call
         | back. If it's urgent, put 'urgent' in the subject and I'll call
         | back immediately.". Set a rule so that urgent emails make your
         | phone vibrate/make noise.
         | 
         | Robocallers won't do that. Most real humans will. Marketers
         | usually won't. Collections agencies usually will.
         | 
         | It's the perfect filter.
        
         | akira2501 wrote:
         | I ignore all calls I don't know. I've never had a billing issue
         | that didn't go into physical mail first. I don't have any plans
         | to take time to receive calls from the government, they will
         | absolutely mail you. They want 100% of the money if they can
         | get it, they don't want to send you to collections; where
         | they're only going to get a cut of the original sum.
         | 
         | It might just be me.. but phones are the ultimate in "false
         | urgency" that our society foists on people.
         | 
         | Meanwhile.. it's 2022 and there's no way for me to give an
         | "emergency code" or authorization to people I know which gives
         | them the ability to ring me directly with some kind of
         | emergency flag or icon showing on the call screen itself.
         | That's baffling.
        
           | LanceH wrote:
           | My physical mail situation is far worse than my phone
           | situation. I missed one bill apparently and got sent to
           | collections. It was from some place that demands that payment
           | be made in full during the visit, so I probably thought it
           | was just junk at the time.
        
           | supertrope wrote:
           | My desk phone is logged into a SIP VoIP provider that does
           | allow very powerful rules. I can create a phone menu and
           | provide each contact with an extension that must be dialed to
           | ring through. But nothing like that is available for my
           | cellphone. So I ignore all unknown callers.
        
         | googlryas wrote:
         | The trick, which I only implemented by mistake, is to have a
         | phone number from an area where you have no business. I live in
         | Boulder but have a number from North Dakota because I got to
         | pick my phone number and liked the look of one.
         | 
         | Now, if I get a call from a 303(Denver/Boulder), I'm almost
         | sure it is real. If I get a call from 701, it is almost
         | certainly a fake.
        
         | r00fus wrote:
         | I gave up - family of 5, but I do the following: my iPhone
         | auto-silences unknown callers (system setting) and I only share
         | my Google Voice account publicly (ie, only friends/family have
         | my direct line). I also have scam-block from my carrier.
         | 
         | It seems to work quite well. I miss an occasional call but have
         | progressively whitelisted (add as contacts) all numbers from
         | school/doc/programs as well.
         | 
         | It does take some diligence but it feels better than getting
         | sideswiped by some rando.
        
         | teeray wrote:
         | I feel like the doctors office scenario should be handled like
         | we do with TLS. They apply for a certificate, and that's signed
         | and offered in their outgoing calls. Their verified name shows
         | up in Caller ID, and the nature of their business is burned
         | into the certificate (medical, government, auto repair, etc.).
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | "secure" phone could be done relatively easily, the phone
           | companies don't want to because it would cost them money and
           | reduce revenue.
        
           | supertrope wrote:
           | The whole reason HIPAA grandfathers fax machines is that it
           | was (and still is) too expensive for the medical industry to
           | purchase, deploy, and train employees on modern telecom.
        
           | supertrope wrote:
           | This exists but is not widely supported.
           | https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/09/08/google-phone-
           | will-s...
        
           | lazide wrote:
           | A great many Dr's offices can't even provide a billing
           | estimate or handle the mess of insurance. Do you think
           | they'll handle something like that on top of it?
        
             | sgtnoodle wrote:
             | I happen to have an obscure health condition, and good
             | insurance. I have a cardiologist, a rheumatologist, a
             | pulmonologist, and a urologist whose offices all tend to
             | periodically call me from unknown numbers. They have a
             | clear economic incentive to periodically poke and prod at
             | me, and bill my insurance.
             | 
             | Taken to an extreme, an incompetent medical practice isn't
             | entitled to stay in business. Not that I am in favor of
             | making businesses more complicated to operate, but I sure
             | would appreciate fewer spam phone calls.
        
               | lazide wrote:
               | That would require a critical mass of customers to accept
               | some standard 'good' call and deny all 'not good' calls.
               | Which with all the chaos right now, good luck without
               | some kind of central action at least as strong as that
               | required to kill the spammers normally.
        
             | teeray wrote:
             | No, I don't. But when you order phone services for your
             | business, they're more than capable of acting on your
             | behalf.
        
           | gwright wrote:
           | There is a lot of effort going into this sort of thing:
           | https://www.bandwidth.com/regulations/stir-shaken/
        
             | teeray wrote:
             | I'm aware, but I don't think it quite goes far enough. It's
             | not enough to merely know it's not a spoofed number. I'd
             | like classification, so I can let any medical practice
             | punch through do not disturb overnight (emergencies
             | involving loved ones), allow others to call during normal
             | business hours (voicemail otherwise), etc., etc.
        
       | tmpz22 wrote:
       | The biggest loop hole is for political-adjacent communications
       | which get a complete pass on all restrictions and can send as
       | much spam as they please. Expect a huge increase around midterms,
       | as even non-political communications draft in the wake of the
       | loophole traffic.
        
         | ceejayoz wrote:
         | That used to be at least manageable, as most of them were via
         | 5-6 digit short codes, and those additionally respected the
         | STOP keyword.
         | 
         | Lately, I've been getting SMS spam from individual peoples'
         | numbers, because politicians have realized they can say "hey go
         | send this text to these numbers" to individual volunteers (SMS
         | version of the old phone banking technique) to get around even
         | that. STOP keyword doesn't do anything on a regular person's
         | cell phone number.
        
           | tmpz22 wrote:
           | > "hey go send this text to these numbers" to individual
           | volunteers
           | 
           | I have direct knowledge that a lot of this is automated via
           | services like Twilio which allow you to programmatically pick
           | local numbers (relative to the receiver) as well as message
           | templates that make the message more human.
           | 
           | Im sure its still being done manually, but a lot of this is
           | fully automated at scale (going back to ~2015).
           | 
           | Short-code numbers are also quite expensive relatively, or
           | were back when I was working in adjacent technology.
        
             | ceejayoz wrote:
             | Sometimes, but text banking is definitely a big thing.
             | 
             | https://www.demandthevote.com/text-banking
             | 
             | https://act.betoorourke.com/signup/bft-volunteer/
             | 
             | I can usually tell based on how long the response to the
             | STOP keyword comes back. Some are a day later from a human;
             | "Sorry, will update the list" sort of stuff. Others are
             | instantaneous and clearly canned.
        
           | zamalek wrote:
           | Have you tried responding with something offensive? A porn
           | gif, for example.
        
           | ribosometronome wrote:
           | >As most of them were via 5-6 digit short codes, and those
           | additionally respected the STOP keyword.
           | 
           | I just counted and I have sent STOP to 26 5-6 digit numbers
           | this year and they still come, all for one specific political
           | party I've never donated to. It seems like they technically
           | respect the STOP but your number is already passed on/gets
           | passed on to other PACs/politicians regardless.
        
             | ceejayoz wrote:
             | Yes. If you do anything even slightly related to a
             | political campaign - donate, sign a petition, fill out a
             | form - that list gets sold over and over and over.
             | https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/06/email-list-for-
             | sale...
             | 
             | It's often the most valuable asset a campaign has.
        
           | boringg wrote:
           | Also if you send STOP it confirms that someone is reading the
           | text message and its a live number.
        
             | tmpz22 wrote:
             | In my experience most message sending services (re: Twilio)
             | offer webhooks to consume replies which can then trigger a
             | response template appearing like an actual person.
        
       | thomastjeffery wrote:
       | Tangential side note: I get that it's the original source, but
       | linking directly to a pdf is not ideal, especially on mobile.
        
         | ezfe wrote:
         | Viewing PDF isn't too much of a problem on mobile - just a
         | little more zooming and panning than on desktop.
        
           | thomastjeffery wrote:
           | You have to download it and open it in another app. I find
           | that pretty painful.
        
             | IX-103 wrote:
             | What browser doesn't have a built-in PDF reader?
        
         | mcast wrote:
         | Also especially important that a compromised PDF is usually an
         | easy vector point for exploiting systems.
         | 
         | PDF Transcription: "-WASHINGTON, October 3, 2022--The FCC's
         | Robocall Response Team today announced first-of-their-kind
         | Enforcement Bureau orders to begin removing seven voice service
         | providers from the agency's Robocall Mitigation Database.
         | Providers must take key robocall mitigation steps - including
         | implementing STIR/SHAKEN throughout their IP networks - and if
         | they fail to demonstrate that they have met these requirements,
         | they can be removed from the database and other networks will
         | no longer take their traffic.
         | 
         | FCC Chairwoman Jessica Rosenworcel: "This is a new era. If a
         | provider doesn't meet its obligations under the law, it now
         | faces expulsion from America's phone networks. Fines alone
         | aren't enough. Providers that don't follow our rules and make
         | it easy to scam consumers will now face swift consequences."
         | What's New: Today's Enforcement Bureau orders demanded that
         | Akabis, Cloud4, Global UC, Horizon Technology Group, Morse
         | Communications, Sharon Telephone Company, and SW Arkansas
         | Telecommunications and Technology show cause within 14 days as
         | to why the FCC should not remove them from the database.
         | Removal from the database would require all intermediate
         | providers and terminating voice service providers to cease
         | carrying the companies' traffic. If that were to occur, all
         | calls from these providers' customers would be blocked and no
         | traffic originated by the provider would reach the called
         | party."
         | 
         | Full version: https://pastebin.com/xDLxLxv4
        
       | LinuxBender wrote:
       | I suppose this was a good start. My heavy handed preference would
       | be they use eminent domain after 3 strikes and liquidate the
       | business to augment pay for the agencies that deal with fraud.
        
       | thewebcount wrote:
       | I don't know why, but in the last couple of weeks the number of
       | spam calls I get has ramped way up. Perhaps they were trying to
       | get it all in before the cutoff? It used to be 3-4 per day to
       | both landline and cell phone, and in the last few weeks it's gone
       | up to about 10-15 on each per day. And it's almost always the
       | same 2 calls - either "... wants to give you $10,000 in clean
       | energy upgrades ..." or "... This is the social security
       | disability administration on a recorded line..." Yeah, whatever.
       | Fuck off.
        
         | mmcgaha wrote:
         | Over the last couple of months I went from maybe one per day to
         | dozens. I am lucky that my phone's area code is 1200 miles away
         | from where I live so for the most part I can ignore everything
         | from that area code. In addition, I changed my default ring
         | tone and then went into each of my contacts and set my normal
         | ring tone. This lets me know if I should be motivated to answer
         | the call or let it go to voicemail.
         | 
         | For me the increase correlates to buying a car so I thought
         | that the dealer was at fault but maybe it is just a
         | coincidence.
        
           | MerelyMortal wrote:
           | Oh, it's very likely it could be the car dealership.
           | 
           | I bought a vehicle from a major dealership, their paperwork
           | had my name mispelled, but I didn't say anything or correct
           | it.
           | 
           | I registered the vehicle with the state with the correct
           | spelling of my name.
           | 
           | I started getting snailmail car warrenty spam with my
           | mispelled name shortly after I bought the car.
           | 
           | The dealership said those spammers must have got it from the
           | state's vehicle registry. I told them my name is mispelled on
           | their paperwork and is mispelled exactly the same way on the
           | spam, but is spelled correctly on the vehicle registration.
           | *crickets*
        
         | pbhjpbhj wrote:
         | You need an automated answer service:
         | 
         | "Type 121 to be connected or hold the line for endless cat
         | facts at $5/min ... Did you know cats on average have just
         | under 4 legs ..."
         | 
         | With the code being randomised and an actual pay service.
         | 
         | Someone in the UK did something like this, apparently, and made
         | money.
        
           | thedougd wrote:
           | The robocalls I get these days ask you to press a button to
           | continue, hearing more about your expiring warranty, etc. If
           | you don't respond in a few seconds it disconnects.
        
             | ComputerGuru wrote:
             | So have it press a button. It's just a DTMF tone. (Is that
             | a redundant acronym phrase?)
        
               | a1369209993 wrote:
               | > a DTMF tone. (Is that a redundant acronym phrase?)
               | 
               | Technically not, since "DTMF" is a proper noun referring
               | to the overall encoding system, and is used as a
               | adjective indicating that this particular tone is
               | associated with that system. Compare "That farm raises
               | KFC chickens. (That is, chickens intended for use by the
               | resturant (chain) that calls itself "Kentucky Fried
               | Chicken".)". Or "The left is what a MacOS window looks
               | like, and the right is what a Windows window looks
               | like.".
        
           | tonypags wrote:
           | I would like to know more about this exciting income
           | opportunity.
        
       | RoadieRoller wrote:
       | I've a free Google Voice number I use as proxy. If I've to use a
       | phone number for one time use (maintenance person, Online waiver
       | forms etc) I give the google voice number. For friends, families,
       | banks, office, I give my ATT number. So far it has kept me away
       | from spams. My Google Voice number gets all the spam and I care
       | less.
        
       | RobLach wrote:
       | Very light response but it's something.
        
         | nobody9999 wrote:
         | >Very light response but it's something.
         | 
         | The FCC is going to block all access to other telecoms from
         | these companies unless they implement STIR/SHAKEN, essentially
         | putting them out of business unless they comply with the FCC's
         | order.
         | 
         | Granted, it's not a firing squad for the C-suite or a cruise
         | missile on their offices, but it's essentially a _corporate_
         | death penalty for the non-compliant telecoms. I wouldn 't call
         | that a "light" response.
         | 
         | Or am I missing something?
        
       | tradertef wrote:
       | This is great. Everyone hates robocall and these companies that
       | still allow robocall do not deserve to be connected to our
       | data/voice networks.
        
         | mjevans wrote:
         | I agree, this should have happened years ago.
         | 
         | """ What's New: Today's Enforcement Bureau orders demanded that
         | Akabis, Cloud4, Global UC, Horizon Technology Group, Morse
         | Communications, Sharon Telephone Company, and SW Arkansas
         | Telecommunications and Technology show cause within 14 days as
         | to why the FCC should not remove them from the database.
         | Removal from the database would require all intermediate
         | providers and terminating voice service providers to cease
         | carrying the companies' traffic. If that were to occur, all
         | calls from these providers' customers would be blocked and no
         | traffic originated by the provider would reach the called
         | party.
         | 
         | "These and other recent actions reflect the seriousness with
         | which we take providers' obligations to take concrete and
         | impactful steps to combat robocalls," said Loyaan A. Egal,
         | acting Chief of the Enforcement Bureau. "STIR/SHAKEN is not
         | optional. And if your network isn't IP-based so you cannot yet
         | use these standards, we need to see the steps taken to mitigate
         | illegal robocalls. These providers have fallen woefully short
         | and have now put at risk their continued participation in the
         | U.S. communications system. While we'll review their responses,
         | we will not accept superficial gestures given the gravity of
         | what is at stake." """
         | 
         | Also, FFS, FCC please have press releases on normal HTML pages,
         | not PDFs, so the pagination is client side and no one has to
         | fix your hard wrapped lines or make things display properly on
         | differently sized devices.
        
           | xani_ wrote:
           | At this point I take the PDF over many "modern" webshits
        
             | jandrese wrote:
             | At least a PDF isn't going to try to do some infinite
             | scroll thing that screws up all linking and makes it nearly
             | impossible to find something again.
        
           | b3morales wrote:
           | So (still trying to understand exactly what's what)... those
           | companies are the ones providing connectivity to the actual
           | scammy robocallers? Or what is it that they do?
        
             | jffry wrote:
             | I think these companies are failing to implement
             | STIR/SHAKEN and are running into expiring grace periods.
             | That's not necessarily evidence of guilt - they might claim
             | that as a small business they cannot afford these changes -
             | but it seems like the only option to clean up the mess
             | caused by spammers.
             | 
             | The protocols are meant to allow tracing which network
             | originated a call - at their root is an attestation by the
             | network that a call they are originating for one of their
             | customers is allowed to use the number in caller ID. If
             | you're a network who wants your originating calls to be
             | carried across other networks, you can't just set up a
             | promiscuous attestation system that allows your customers
             | to just slap on any random caller ID that they want, or
             | else you'll get blacklisted real quick.
        
             | rolph wrote:
             | yes, or else they are the scammies themselves using a
             | shell.
             | 
             | so, due to not taking mandated security measures thus
             | allowing blackhats into your system, [company] is banned
             | from the network.
        
           | nobody9999 wrote:
           | >Also, FFS, FCC please have press releases on normal HTML
           | pages, not PDFs, so the pagination is client side and no one
           | has to fix your hard wrapped lines or make things display
           | properly on differently sized devices.
           | 
           | That would be nice.
           | 
           | In the absence of such niceties, I chose PDF for the
           | submission because it was the least obnoxious format
           | available. The press release (as well as the specific orders
           | for each provider affected) can also be had in docx and txt
           | formats[0].
           | 
           | [0] https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-remove-companies-
           | robocall-d...
        
       | sprokolopolis wrote:
       | In my experience, it seems like most spam calls that I receive
       | are using a spoofed number over VOIP. Reporting the number as
       | spam, basically reports the number they are spoofing, rather than
       | the people making the call. Is that correct? Will this new action
       | have any effect on these spoofed VOIP calls? It seems like there
       | is no way for people receiving these calls to report these
       | callers without having the carriers recording the source IP
       | addresses of these calls. I don't know all of the inner-workings
       | of the phone network, so maybe I am making incorrect assumptions.
        
         | pavon wrote:
         | Yes that is exactly what this is about. A few years ago the FCC
         | mandated[1] that all voice providers implement a set of
         | standards called STIR/SHAKEN that are essentially cryptographic
         | signatures that a call originated with them and that the Caller
         | ID information is valid. They have since been gradually
         | increasing penalties for providers that are not in compliance
         | with those standards. This move is the strictest yet -
         | completely disconnecting some providers that are not in
         | compliance. The companies in question aren't an exhaustive list
         | of providers that still allow spoofed Caller ID, so it won't
         | end the problem. I'm still curious as to how far they will be
         | able to go with foreign services. At the least they should
         | eventually be able to prevent spoofing of domestic numbers.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.fcc.gov/call-authentication
        
         | carom wrote:
         | I have done CNAM lookups on the numbers and contacted the
         | originating VOIP companies, and they just say "we won't let
         | that number contact you again". It's infuriating. Don't let
         | that customer contact me again, they can change their number at
         | will. Scumbags.
        
         | mmcgaha wrote:
         | Right before my spam call problem got out of hand, I called
         | back a number and it was a backdoor to some community's 911.
         | The 911 operator had her ass on the dashboard demanding to know
         | how I got the number. I felt like a kid in the principal's
         | office.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | permo-w wrote:
       | are robocalls illegal in the UK? I've never got one
        
         | gwd wrote:
         | About once a year I get a "I heard you were in an accident"
         | robocall. But the main reason they're not a problem in the UK
         | or Europe is that the _caller_ pays for the mobile airtime;
         | which is standardized at something like $0.20p /minute.
         | Robocalling 1 million people would cost you PS200k -- not
         | generally cost-effective.
         | 
         | In the US, the _callee_ pays for airtime; so the cost to the
         | robocaller is fractions of a cent, and the 1-million-person
         | robocall thing is a lot cheaper, and thus more cost-effective.
         | Literally all the US has to do to make the problem go away is
         | to charge people who call mobile phones $0.30 per minute. For
         | legitimate callers, this will be nothing; generally included in
         | their monthly plan; but it would cripple the entire robocalling
         | industry.
        
           | permo-w wrote:
           | >In the US, the callee pays for airtime
           | 
           | that is literally shocking. so not only are robocallers
           | irritating, they're also _costing you money_? America needs
           | to get its shit together
        
             | jandrese wrote:
             | This is rarely true 2022. Most phone plans have unlimited
             | (unmetered) minutes. Back when people had to pay for their
             | minutes there was a LOT more pressure to keep spammers off
             | of cell numbers.
        
             | terinjokes wrote:
             | Mobile numbers in the US are also assigned geographically
             | alongside landlines. So it's not possible ahead of time to
             | know if a number is mobile or not, making caller pays very
             | unpredictable.
        
       | enobrev wrote:
       | What I really want is an advanced caller id system that
       | encompasses the whole process, in which the "caller" or "sender"
       | never actually has my phone number (or email or mailing address).
       | 
       | I can generate contact-ids on the fly, which I can give out to
       | anyone - public or private. I can generate them for each person I
       | give them to, or for posting on a billboard if I'd like.
       | 
       | When a person adds that id to their contact list, the "system"
       | would notice that I've never set that up the caller to contact
       | me, so I get a notification that "[Caller] would like to contact
       | you". I can set the method and schedule they can contact me:
       | 
       | * Text / Email - Weekdays between 9 and 6pm (work)
       | 
       | * Phone / Text / Email - Any time, Always, Until Disabled
       | (family, friends, etc)
       | 
       | * Phone / Text / Email - Any time until Summer (my kid's school)
       | 
       | * Text-Only - For the next 3 days (maintenence, etc)
       | 
       | * Snail Mail Only - 3 Weeks before election (local politicians)
       | 
       | * Snail Mail Only - Once per month (local grocery)
       | 
       | The caller gets a notification that they can contact me, how, and
       | when, and from then on, they look me up on their devices / apps
       | and hit the "Contact" button. They are then presented with the
       | options I've given them "Sorry, You can only call or text during
       | work hours". "This person only allows text messages at this
       | time".
       | 
       | Some interesting bits about this:
       | 
       | * No contact info for spamming
       | 
       | * No possibility of harassment
       | 
       | * No distractions outside of what I've personally defined as
       | available.
       | 
       | * Commercial / Political entities aren't cut out from people who
       | want to hear from them
       | 
       | * Mail can be forwarded to me anywhere in the world, since the
       | sender would just be sending a package / letter to my id, and not
       | to my actual address. The PO would then send it to whatever
       | address I've most recently set. (no more forwarding address or
       | crap for the people who used to live where I do).
        
         | FrasiertheLion wrote:
         | Requires massive centralization of data and complicated logic
         | for access control enforcement, which now has to happen for
         | every call.
        
       | bl_valance wrote:
       | I don't know if I'm just lucky, but I've rarely gotten
       | unsolicited (bot)calls in the 10+ years that I've had a google
       | voice + tmobile number. Anything online related I use gv#, for
       | immediate family I use tmobile#. GV, from what I've seen, usually
       | filters out spam calls by default so maybe that's why I haven't
       | noticed.
        
       | dcist wrote:
       | I've muted all phone calls for anyone not on my contact list
       | because of robocalls. It's absurd that this is a problem in 2022.
        
       | solvitor wrote:
       | Minor, but I'd rather click to a web page than have a PDF auto
       | download. Consider this link https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-
       | remove-companies-robocall-d... instead of the PDF.
        
       | ljw1001 wrote:
       | I cannot understand why my iPhone, which can both id spam likely
       | calls, and mute calls from unknown numbers cannot mute spam
       | likely calls. This is exactly what I need
        
         | spc476 wrote:
         | Well, it's not the cell phone (iPhone or Android) that is doing
         | the spam ID, it's a service being queried as the phone call is
         | being placed. Something like, Alice (the originator) calls Bob
         | (the terminator). Just before the phone network causes Bob's
         | phone to ring, it requests (via the network) a service that
         | says "classify the originating number" and that service might
         | return both a name "Alice" and some form of reputation (like
         | "normal" or "potential spam") which then gets sent to the phone
         | that causes it to start ringing (I know, because I worked at a
         | company providing such information).
         | 
         | What I found works for me is to assign "silence" as the default
         | ring tone, and give each of my contacts a non-default ring
         | tone. If someone not in my contact list calls me, they can
         | leave a voice mail message. Yes, it means I might miss a
         | critical "deal with me now" call, but that's a chance I'm
         | taking.
        
         | codemac wrote:
         | This is what the pixel phone screen feature does for me.
         | 
         | The difference between my partner and I's phone frustration is
         | obvious. My unknown calls that are questionable get sent to
         | voicemail nicely with a bot asking them what their name is and
         | allowing me to pick up in the middle if I notice something I
         | need to pay attention to, her iphone just rings with a pop up
         | as "SPAM RISK" and she has to mute it, or she blocks unknown
         | numbers and misses calls.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | tomphoolery wrote:
       | if you're not texting me or emailing me i am ignoring you...most
       | of the calls i get are from recruiters talking about a stupid
       | java job or something that i don't want
        
       | didgetmaster wrote:
       | My personal phone is also my business phone which means a
       | potential customer could be calling me from anywhere. My project
       | is software that is in open beta, so the calls could originate
       | from anywhere in the world. If I simply ignore any calls that are
       | not in my contact list, I risk alienating a customer. Some might
       | leave a voicemail, but I certainly can't count on it.
        
       | andirk wrote:
       | These steps work like a charm to stop SPAM calls and junk postal
       | mail:
       | 
       | - Stop unwanted postal mail
       | https://www.usa.gov/telemarketing#item-35222
       | 
       | - Stop credit and insurance offers
       | https://www.optoutprescreen.com/selection
       | 
       | - Stop "direct mail" for $4 https://www.dmachoice.org/
       | 
       | - For everything else, collect your junk mail and occasionally go
       | through each piece individually and enter it into
       | https://www.catalogchoice.org/
        
         | willcipriano wrote:
         | > Consumers can register at DMA's consumer website:
         | www.DMAchoice.org for a processing fee of $4 for a period of
         | ten years. Registering online is the fastest way to see
         | results. DMAchoice offers consumers a simple, step-by-step
         | process that enables them to decide what mail they do and do
         | not want.
         | 
         | I'm going to start a business that delivers several one ton
         | concrete blocks directly in front of the front doors of the
         | offices of firms associated with the DMA. They can opt out for
         | 40 thousand dollars or simply spend a few dozen hours with a
         | pickaxe and wheelbarrow to dispose of the blocks when they
         | arrive unasked for.
        
         | valleyer wrote:
         | This doesn't ring true to me at all. The majority of junk calls
         | I get are not from legitimate businesses that would have
         | anything to do with the links you provided.
        
         | Brusco_RF wrote:
         | Your second link is broken
        
           | error54 wrote:
           | https://www.optoutprescreen.com/
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | jijji wrote:
       | Reading the announcement, the threats sound like a stretch of the
       | FCC's mandate. Do they really have the authority to remove
       | carriers from the phone network? I'm sure that would be
       | challenged up to the supreme court.
        
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       (page generated 2022-10-05 23:00 UTC)