[HN Gopher] RISC-V Laptop now available
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       RISC-V Laptop now available
        
       Author : thebetatester
       Score  : 107 points
       Date   : 2022-10-04 18:19 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.tomshardware.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.tomshardware.com)
        
       | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
       | Okay, honestly for all that I wouldn't go for it myself, $1500
       | doesn't seem super bad for what it is. It's got 4 cores with a
       | decent clock speed and 16GB of RAM, and it's a completely novel
       | system that's not mass-market. The first RISC-V laptop isn't
       | going to benefit from economies of scale; dev boards are barely
       | starting to get there.
        
       | marssaxman wrote:
       | Sounds like progress. I don't need a RISC-V laptop badly enough
       | to spend $1500 on this one, but I'm glad to see a shrinking delta
       | between my desires and the market's offerings.
        
       | ha-ckernews wrote:
       | Why would someone buy this? Honest question, not asking it to
       | make a point or be snarky.
        
         | viraptor wrote:
         | If you're really bullish on RISC-V as a developer, it may be a
         | valid investment. Or if you already develop for RISC-V machines
         | and it would be convenient to test binaries locally, instead of
         | doing some kind of remote/emulated dev.
        
       | snvzz wrote:
       | $1500... hell no.
       | 
       | VisionFive2[0] w/JH7110, U74x4 @ 1.5GHz, 8GB, 2x GbE, M.2 slot,
       | pi-like gpio header, is less than $100, and thus a much more cost
       | efficient way to get started with RISC-V.
       | 
       | 0. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/starfive/visionfive-2
        
         | parker_mountain wrote:
         | This laptop is certainly not a daily driver, and certainly not
         | something you'd buy if you're concerned about lifespan,
         | durability, or support. It's a mobile demonstration that the
         | burgeoning community of risc-v developers can bring along with
         | them to conferences and boardroom tables. It's (relatively)
         | expensive and is functionally a reference board with a battery
         | and screen attached.
         | 
         | The price, OEM, and support story is a non-issue for the
         | intended market.
        
         | leke wrote:
         | Sweet. Imagine if you could put that in a laptop, like you
         | would change motherboards in a PC. Then when the specs get
         | dated, you can switch it out for the next best thing while
         | reusing the original hardware.
        
           | go_elmo wrote:
           | Paired with linux, an ode to joy
        
           | black_puppydog wrote:
           | MNT Reform :)
        
           | snvzz wrote:
           | That'd be nice, but having a standard form factor for
           | swappable motherboards in laptops is a very separate problem
           | than having cheap boards with RISC-V at all.
        
           | heywire wrote:
           | Like the Framework laptop?
        
         | brucehoult wrote:
         | VisionFive 2 looks like a great board. I'll know in six weeks
         | or so when my super early bird 4 GB one arrives (and a regular
         | 8 GB in February).
         | 
         | However it doesn't have a case, screen, battery, charger,
         | keyboard, trackpad ...
         | 
         | $1500 seems entirely reasonable for any laptop that is being
         | made in quantities of 1000s (only 100 before New Year) not
         | millions, regardless of what processor is in it.
         | 
         | I've certainly paid far more money for slower laptops in the
         | past ... PowerBook 100, Duo 230, Wallstreet G3/266, 1.0 GHz G4
         | 17" to name a few.
         | 
         | In raw CPU performance, it's probably similar to a Core 2 Duo
         | MBP ($1999 for a 2.16 GHz in 2006). But it's got twice the
         | cores, far more RAM, far more "disk", far better GPU.
         | 
         | The VisionFive 2 is more like one of the last Pentium IIIs or
         | G4s in performance, per core.
        
         | FullyFunctional wrote:
         | I signed up for the VisionFive2 myself, but in fairness, the
         | C910 in this laptop is vastly more powerful than SiFive's U76
         | in the VisionFive2. I don't have the benchmark results handy,
         | but it's on the order of 6X as fast (higher IPC and 66% higher
         | frequency), so it's not really a just comparison.
         | 
         | $1500 for a limited run laptop is actually not bad deal. My
         | main hesitation would be what level of support we can be
         | expecting. I have zero interest in proprietary kernels and
         | distros ( _Many_ Arm SBCs, like Hard Kernels ODROID line, has
         | this problem and it 's a pain to deal with).
        
       | IYasha wrote:
       | Doen't have detachable battery, DRM PU onboard, no mouse keys...
       | 
       | But still with Windows(r)(tm)(fu) logo on the meta-key? :D
        
       | lvass wrote:
       | >There's a dedicated security chip onboard
       | 
       | And thus, the newest laptop without an Intel ME equivalent is
       | still around 14 years old.
        
       | KeyBoardG wrote:
       | Was this article written by a bot fed input from the marketing
       | team? Such short, choppy, and malformed sentences reads as fake.
        
         | sitzkrieg wrote:
         | likely machine translated from a release spec
        
       | downrightmike wrote:
       | $1,499 base, $4,999 Premium. The point of RISC is cheap. and the
       | specs don't warrant $500.
        
         | FullyFunctional wrote:
         | No, the point of RISC (and RISC-V) has nothing to do with
         | cheap.
         | 
         | The _point_ of RISC-V is freedom [to use, implement, etc] and a
         | rallying point (no need for everyone to re-implement the whole
         | SW eco-system if that's not the main point of the
         | implementation).
        
       | sylware wrote:
       | Going forward... don't forget the road will be long and harsh for
       | risc-v.
        
       | tromp wrote:
       | > weighing 1.7 kg (3.7 pounds), it's definitely at the thinner
       | and lighter end of the market,
       | 
       | Seems more like medium weight to me; hoping that's due to a large
       | battery.
       | 
       | > Battery life is rated at 10 hours.
       | 
       | Oops, apparently not.
       | 
       | Still, cool to see RISC-V in a laptop.
        
         | viraptor wrote:
         | Battery weight depends on capacity, not rated life. Kind of
         | nitpicky, but this really depends on how the power management
         | works on this platform. It could just be really inefficient
         | right now. (especially since we don't have systems really
         | optimised for it yet)
        
       | mobiclick wrote:
       | My problem with this laptop isn't with it's pricing but with
       | who's selling it. If it was Asus or some other reputable OEM, I
       | think I would have bought it.
       | 
       | I've had _extremely_ poor experiences with some Chinese OEMs in
       | the past and I 'm not risking 1500 with unproven OEMs unless I
       | have to.
        
       | MisterTea wrote:
       | > It can support up to 16GB LPDDR4 or 4X RAM
       | 
       | 4X RAM? And is the RAM socketed or soldered?
       | 
       | > 4 TOPS NPU and an Imagination Technologies GPU
       | 
       | Drivers are open source for both or are we stuck with vendor
       | kernel images or some other garbage? How easy will it be to port
       | Open/Net/FreeBSD or another OS?
       | 
       | > The Roma is available from Alibaba (opens in new tab) as a
       | basic package for $1,499
       | 
       | I have a better idea: Buy a mnt reform.
        
         | rjsw wrote:
         | The StarFive JH7110 that is going into the Star64 board [1]
         | also has an Imagination Technologies GPU, there have been
         | statements that there is going to be an open source driver for
         | it.
         | 
         | [1] https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/STAR64
        
         | sudosysgen wrote:
         | I think they mean either lpddr4 or lpddr4x.
        
       | f1shy wrote:
       | Oh the name of that linux distro: "Anolis". Does not say if based
       | on debian.
       | 
       | I wonder if the user will be able to change the distro, or the
       | drivers will be somehow fix with the distro.
        
         | tenebrisalietum wrote:
         | Centos based.
        
       | thom_ wrote:
       | Neat to see a RISC V laptop but they must be smoking crack if
       | they think I'm paying $1500 for the privilege of recompiling my
       | operating system really, really slowly. And the 5k option is
       | outright predatory. Someone needs to protect the vulnerable
       | enthusiast market (you know who I'm referring to) from this kind
       | of pricing. Ask a fair price. It's an $800 laptop, maxed out.
        
         | melony wrote:
         | Wait till you hear about the Talos POWER-architecture computers
         | 
         | https://www.raptorcs.com/
        
           | selfhoster11 wrote:
           | TALOS at least has a reason to exist, as eye-wateringly
           | expensive as it is.
        
         | incahoots wrote:
         | I think you're forgetting whom this product is aimed at. Also
         | small batch vs a quantity product produced en masse like a
         | latitude.
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | It's a small-batch release of extremely-enthusiast hardware for
         | a very niche segment of customers. They could charge $10,000 a
         | pop and probably have no problem selling out.
         | 
         | There are cheap RISC-V dev boards if you want to use them, but
         | this is mostly evidently not that. These people wanted to see
         | if they could build a fairly decent 'all-in' RISC-V machine,
         | and it looks like they did.
        
       | Kukumber wrote:
       | I was interested in buying one until i saw the price.. "The Roma
       | as a basic package for $1,499"
       | 
       | Overpriced, or better, why is the price so high?
        
         | foobarian wrote:
         | And that, in a nutshell, is why we can't have nice things.
        
         | incahoots wrote:
         | I imagine it's because Alibaba does not and will never have the
         | purchasing agreements like HP/Dell/Apple/Lenovo do. I'd guess
         | the secondary components that complete the laptop come at a
         | premium, jacking up the retail price.
        
         | boricj wrote:
         | The small production run coupled with the price suggests that
         | it's basically an evaluation board in a laptop form factor. As-
         | is, it's probably mostly of use for people that want to hack on
         | RISC-V (operating systems, ports, application development...)
         | with a hardware target that can also act as a standalone host
         | computer for said hacking on the go.
        
           | rjsw wrote:
           | The Pinebook Pro is basically an evaluation board in a laptop
           | form factor.
        
             | smoldesu wrote:
             | The Pinebook Pro uses off-the-shelf A53 cores that have
             | existed for over a decade.
        
         | imtringued wrote:
         | You can probably find equally overpriced ARM and x86 laptops if
         | you are willing to look for them.
         | 
         | It turns out, there is not much competition in the RISCV Laptop
         | market.
        
       | theflyingelvis wrote:
       | Seems like a risk to me
        
         | thebetatester wrote:
         | Ba dum tss
        
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       (page generated 2022-10-04 23:01 UTC)