[HN Gopher] How fateful?
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       How fateful?
        
       Author : parabyl
       Score  : 937 points
       Date   : 2022-10-04 07:29 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (chan.co.za)
 (TXT) w3m dump (chan.co.za)
        
       | ghostoftesla wrote:
       | That's the most dystopian sh*t I've seen here in a while.
        
       | room505 wrote:
       | My spouse and I passed each other all the time because we lived
       | in the same neighborhood. I almost had the courage to approach
       | her. Ironically, we ended up meeting through a dating website!
        
         | NoGravitas wrote:
         | It's almost as if the dating website played the role that a
         | formal introduction from a mutual acquaintance might have
         | played once upon a time.
        
       | OisinMoran wrote:
       | This is beautiful! I've often had the same thought when meeting
       | new people--"What's the closest we've been before now?", "Have we
       | looked at each other as strangers before?", etc.
       | 
       | A similar one I'd love to know is what's the furthest apart I've
       | seen the same bird?
        
       | zhte415 wrote:
       | > It makes me feel very philosophical. Likely we had walked past
       | each other every other week for three years with our heads down,
       | or in the clouds, paying very little notice to the people around
       | us. Past Channon had not the foggiest clue what impact an
       | unnoticed stranger would come to have on her. Since learning this
       | I can't help but look at the passers-by in my day-to-day life in
       | a different light.
       | 
       | And no shame in getting philosophical. It may not have been time.
       | Perhaps you were not the same person, or nor was he. In meeting
       | at the right time, _stars are aligned_ , it was the right time to
       | intersect. Or perhaps a host of other reasons. There may have
       | been better times, perhaps bounded for this success quite close
       | to or at the time you didn 'meet'. And who knows what other
       | 'success' could have worked out - collaborators in something,
       | getting together when 're meeting' - we don't know, an
       | individual's life's not repeatable, and that in itself is
       | beautiful.
       | 
       | It is indeed fascinating mapping and wondering, and probably
       | applicable to a lot. But not to downplay the philosophical side,
       | as that's important, and important the OP included it.
        
         | weezin wrote:
         | >Perhaps you were not the same person, or nor was he.
         | 
         | Man this is really key. relationships is a skill. I don't
         | believe in soul mates, but rather a healthy relationship is
         | developed when two people have honed the skill enough to be
         | able to handle conflict without causing irreparable harm, and
         | enjoy each other out of conflict.
        
           | greyhair wrote:
           | It helps immensely to have common goals and wants.
           | 
           | My wife and I were very aligned, right from early on,
           | concerning financial disposition and family goals. We got
           | that right out in the open early. We completely merged our
           | financial lives and closed on a house, both names on the
           | deed, both names on the mortgage, a year before we got
           | engaged. When we got engaged, we couldn't afford an
           | engagement ring, joint decision on that, and one of her
           | friends got up in my face about it, 'where is the
           | commitment?'. My dear fiancee held her ring finger up against
           | the house and said "this is the commitment".
           | 
           | That common ground, those common goals, has made everything
           | that followed much easier. Thirty years this past Spring.
        
         | ericmcer wrote:
         | I don't really agree, if you sat down and talked with every
         | single person you walked by throughout the day you would meet
         | many people you clicked with, both on a friendship and romantic
         | level. If the author was that outgoing they probably would have
         | met their partner earlier, or she would have found someone she
         | liked better.
         | 
         | In other words I don't think who we end up with is some 1 in a
         | million cosmic star aligning moment, it's probably more like 1
         | in 100 and many people would be as good or a better fit than
         | who we end up with. The time you spend with your person is more
         | important than some intrinsic value you both bring at the
         | start.
        
           | notinfuriated wrote:
           | I actually think that your comment is probably saying
           | something similar to the above. It potentially is about _1 in
           | 100_ as you state, but the timing of it makes it far less
           | likely for 1 in 100 to work out because both people may not
           | actually be mentally or emotionally ready to settle into a
           | monogamous relationship. At least, my own experience has led
           | me to that sort of a worldview.
           | 
           | I've had relationships not work out for varying reasons,
           | including going on vacation 'at the wrong time', or someone's
           | ex visiting the city and making her feel like she can't 'move
           | on' at the moment, stuff like that.
           | 
           | And I went through my own dating phase in which I was less
           | mature and not ready to settle down with many of the people I
           | met. Quite a few of them were perfectly great women with whom
           | I likely could have lasted in a long-term relationship (of
           | course, we can never really know). As I see it, the timing
           | wasn't right, either for me (mostly for me) or for them. It
           | was only after a few years of this that I was in the right
           | mindset to stay with the person I happened to be dating at
           | the time. Sure, that probably doesn't sound great, and I
           | probably won't discuss this at length with my wife, but it's
           | the way I view the world. I'd wager that something like 80%
           | of the people I went on more than three dates with were
           | 'compatible' enough that I'd pursue a relationship with them,
           | but it only worked out long-term with the last one because we
           | were both in the same mindset to give an earnest effort at
           | making our relationship work at the same place and same time.
           | 
           | So, using dumb analogy math, 1/X (compatible person) chance
           | times 1/Y (right timing, maturity, life experience, etc.), it
           | works out to a lower probability 1/(X*Y).
        
           | Karellen wrote:
           | Your love is one in a million         You couldn't buy it at
           | any price         But of the nine-point-nine-nine-nine
           | hundred thousand other possible loves         Statistically
           | some of them would be equally nice              Or maybe not
           | as nice but, say, smarter than you         Or dumber, but
           | better at sport or... fuckin' tracing?              I'm just
           | saying         I really think that I would, probably
           | Have somebody else              If I didn't have you
           | Someone else would do
           | 
           | -- Tim Minchin, _If I Didn 't Have You_
        
             | owenpalmer wrote:
             | Ew
        
           | Tozen wrote:
           | Exactly. Many people don't realize, that the more people you
           | are interacting with, the greater the odds are to finding
           | what you seek. Probably this is more true for men, as oppose
           | to women, as men tend to be more proactive. However, men
           | still need to overcome any shyness or fear of rejection, to
           | unlock such greater possibilities.
        
           | autoexec wrote:
           | > I don't think who we end up with is some 1 in a million
           | cosmic star aligning moment, it's probably more like 1 in 100
           | 
           | I suspect that you're right for most people, but those odds
           | will be better or worse depending on the person and their
           | circumstance. For some people, it probably is closer to 1 in
           | a million, or could even be worse. Some go their entire lives
           | meeting people and never finding one. There's probably not
           | much harm in feeling a bit lucky to have found your person,
           | especially if you suspect at least one of your odds were
           | worse than most.
        
           | salmo wrote:
           | The 1 in 100 is what keeps my wife busy with family law. The
           | odds of ending up marrying someone vs having a healthy
           | relationship are 2 very different things.
           | 
           | My wife and I dated through undergrad, broke up at "get
           | married or break up." And ended coming back together as
           | adults with more life and relationship experience. Based on
           | plans, we never should have been back in the same city. And
           | when we started hanging out again, neither expected a
           | relationship, just a friendship still being sick of each
           | others' sh. But we had both grown up. We're 24 years into our
           | relationship now. I think it's going well.
           | 
           | That's all purely anecdotal, though.
           | 
           | I don't think real math could be done with this. Success
           | isn't measurable. People often split due to $ or tragedy.
           | People stick it out, miserable the entire time. It walks into
           | Aristotle's eudaimonia. You can't know until it's over. Even
           | then, quantifying quality is folly.
        
             | Dracophoenix wrote:
             | I'm guessing your wife is a divorce attorney? If so,
             | knowing what she knows, what's stopping her dropping out of
             | the marriage and taking half your stuff? Even in a perfect
             | marriage, there's always the incentive.
        
         | nonrandomstring wrote:
         | Legend has it that Adam Smith (the "father of capitalism") and
         | James Watt (pioneering steam-engineer and industrial machinist)
         | shared proximate offices at Glasgow University and drank in the
         | same nearby pubs. Apparently, no significant record of their
         | connection exists.
        
           | arethuza wrote:
           | Babbage and Brunel almost ran into each others in trains -
           | Brunel coming back from a night out and Babbage running
           | experiments:
           | 
           | https://moorsidepublications.com/2015/07/01/babbage-gets-
           | inv...
        
             | nonrandomstring wrote:
             | Oh, _literally_ ran into each other.
             | 
             | "They were on a collision course and both would have been
             | travelling at 40 miles an hour."
             | 
             | What an amazing story. Thanks.
        
               | arethuza wrote:
               | I love the cartoon series with Lovelace, Babbage and
               | Brunel:
               | 
               | https://www.theguardian.com/technology/gallery/2015/apr/1
               | 2/t...
        
         | jvvw wrote:
         | My husband and I are pretty sure we must have been in the same
         | room at university on various occasions (we knew lots of people
         | in common) but didn't meet until several years after we both
         | left. I'm three years older and was four academic years ahead
         | so think it is a good thing we didn't meet then - I don't think
         | as a PhD student that I would have dated a first-year
         | undergraduate!
        
         | JKCalhoun wrote:
         | That idea has always fascinated me as well -- imagining each of
         | us tracing out some kind of space-time path on a map. And with
         | other's paths crossing ours. I want to be able to rewind time
         | and watch the paths of ex-girlfriends I have lost touch with to
         | see if we crossed paths again, perhaps in an airport, unaware
         | of each other.
         | 
         | Perhaps it would all be more depressing than that though,
         | exposing the small, repetitive worlds we live in. For my part,
         | I have tried to road-trip, travel more often than others in my
         | family have done, tried too to expose my kids to travel when
         | growing up so they can experience a slightly bigger loop across
         | the face of this small planet.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | I've heard that there's something like a 50% that someone you
           | know is at the airport at the same time you are - because
           | people who fly know people who fly.
        
           | Tozen wrote:
           | > imagining each of us tracing out some kind of space-time
           | path on a map...
           | 
           | Very fascinating indeed. Imagine all the near-misses, as
           | well. Like you were in the exact location of a childhood
           | sweetheart, soon-to-be girlfriend, or ex-girlfriend, but
           | separated by 30 minutes. Perhaps, if had waited 30 minutes
           | later, would have ran into a dream woman, who would have been
           | the perfect wife.
        
         | smeej wrote:
         | I was getting philosophical the other day for the opposite
         | reason, looking at all the things that went _slightly_
         | different than they would have been expected to go, or that I
         | had previously wished had not gone  "wrong," but if they had
         | happened the "right" way, we never would have met.
         | 
         | I don't think Google's spying can help me identify those, but
         | in the end I'm grateful for the winding path that led here,
         | even if I didn't love it along the way!
        
           | ivan888 wrote:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjKFb-4t_vg
        
           | Archelaos wrote:
           | Think of all the causal paths since the beginning of the
           | universe that led to your birth. Even the smallest difference
           | would have resulted in what you are now being a different
           | person, if you existed at all. Just one atom in a supernova
           | explosion billions of years ago having a slightly different
           | trajectory ...
        
         | Tor3 wrote:
         | When I and my wife met for the first time we were both
         | tourists, we both had never been to that country before (and
         | none of us had ever been to a place the other had been), and we
         | had exactly one day of overlap at this place and just happened
         | to have decided to go to a particular spot at the same time in
         | the early morning. And it's extremely likely that there would
         | never have been another opportunity at any time later.
        
           | lexapro wrote:
           | There would have been another opportunity with someone else
           | that you would have fancied as much or even more.
        
             | warkdarrior wrote:
             | Way to destroy his marriage!
        
               | Tozen wrote:
               | But, it is the truth. Except, such can go both ways.
               | There can be better or worse options that present
               | themselves (to include beyond looks).
        
             | Tor3 wrote:
             | A bit unlikely as I got married quite late in life! (And I
             | had zero intentions of getting involved with anyone up to
             | then) (In any case - this was a comment to a discussion
             | about crossing paths with one's SO/partner at other times
             | than when actually meeting - not about meeting someone
             | else. My story was just one where it's guaranteed that we
             | couldn't have crossed paths before - no googling
             | necessary..)
        
         | MrDunham wrote:
         | > And no shame in getting philosophical. It may not have been
         | time. Perhaps you were not the same person, or nor was he
         | 
         | This is a really good point. My wife and I often laugh about
         | how in high school especially and college too we wouldn't
         | likely have been friends, much less good romantic partners.
         | Both of us then were different people yet now both of us are
         | perfect for each other.
         | 
         | But back then? Likely not even friends.
        
       | zitterbewegung wrote:
       | This assumes that you would fallen in love if you met earlier
       | which isn't a good assumption.
       | 
       | It is a fun exercise though and pretty cute to do.
        
       | vivegi wrote:
       | I loved the personal story of two people trying to figure out
       | past history based on data. But the fact that his comes from
       | centralized datamines maintained by bigtech is unsettling.
        
       | chiefalchemist wrote:
       | And this friends is why "third party" entities collecting your
       | meta data and such is a concern. A lot (read: enough) can be
       | learned about you *and who you associate* without actually
       | listening to your calls, etc.
       | 
       | On the surface, this article is cute. After that it's a red flag
       | for all of us.
        
         | wink wrote:
         | I'd argue the opposite. People already know what Google can do,
         | this is how you reap some benefits for yourself with the data
         | that's already there.
        
           | chiefalchemist wrote:
           | The NSA, etc. is not Google. What about the Constitution?
        
           | anarticle wrote:
           | I've always wondered what the NSA actually thinks of me.
           | Consider it a psychoanalysis paid for by taxes. Extra creepy,
           | but we're already at the party.
        
         | asdfasgasdgasdg wrote:
         | All depends on your threat model. A company openly collecting
         | your data by your say so seems significantly less threatening
         | (to me, to many others) than all the actors who are doing it
         | without your knowledge or consent.
        
           | chiefalchemist wrote:
           | The point is, any / all data collection is - or should be -
           | suspect. Today's benevolent actor is tomorrow's victim of a
           | hack, or simply changes their spots. Furthermore, even data
           | that is positioned as harmless (i.e., phone call metadata)
           | can tell stories.
           | 
           | Finally, per "The Age of Surveillance Capitalism" (and
           | others) these minor privacy infringements add up and is used
           | against us.
           | 
           | There's no such thing as no threat.
        
             | asdfasgasdgasdg wrote:
             | I've concluded that the benefits significantly outweigh
             | the, imo, fairly remote risks. It's that simple.
        
               | chiefalchemist wrote:
               | Read the book. Once you come to realize the collecting of
               | your data isn't "passive" and that ultimately, it's being
               | done to be used against you - and your free will - your
               | perceived benefits are insignificant.
               | 
               | Put another way, being complacent and complicit not only
               | sells-out your own privacy, it compromises the privacy of
               | all those round you, your (future) offspring, etc.
               | 
               | For what? Convenience?
        
               | asdfasgasdgasdg wrote:
               | I'm not going to read a whole book about this issue.
               | 
               | I already know that the collecting of data isn't passive.
               | I deny that it's being done to be used against me. I also
               | deny any concrete harms for most people on the short to
               | medium term, although the far future is hard to predict.
               | 
               | Given that I deny the likelihood of harm to this data
               | collection, I'm setting a concrete benefit against no
               | drawbacks. Therefore I will continue to use it.
        
               | chiefalchemist wrote:
               | No drawbacks? You're naive (at best).
               | 
               | In some camps, a couple of years ago, the book was on a
               | number of "Book of Year" lists. The issue is far less
               | simplistic than you're making it out to be. That fact
               | that you dismiss the risks and dangers is something -
               | funny enough - covered in the book as well.
               | 
               | Leaving this for completeness:
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Age_of_Surveillance_Cap
               | ita...
               | 
               | p.s. Not passive, as in the aim is to be proactive (in
               | influencing behavior). There are plenty of other sources
               | that explore how fragile "free will" is, so maybe we can
               | do that some other time? :)
        
               | asdfasgasdgasdg wrote:
               | Do you find you convince many people with this style of
               | argumentation? I used to do it this way but it never
               | worked out for me. You think I'm naive, but in fact I
               | just have different priorities from you, and different
               | estimates of the likelihood of outcomes.
        
           | hoseja wrote:
           | Does your threat model include universal subsumation by
           | state-corporate entities or are you just, sorta leaving that
           | one on your children?
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | > _I 'm glad to have gone down this rabbit hole because now I
       | think about the 41.25 near-misses we had, where if an audience
       | had been watching they may have been on the edge of their seats._
       | 
       | 41.25 near-misses, until The Answer was the crossing that wasn't
       | a miss: 42
        
         | nkko wrote:
         | What was the question?
        
       | greyhair wrote:
       | My now wife picked me up in a bar in 1992.
       | 
       | After we met, it was clear that we had been frequenting the same
       | bars for about three years, and had attended many shows
       | together/apart, but neither of us had any recollection of
       | recognizing each other at any prior point. The shows were
       | significant acts (for example, an ear bleedingly loud Bob Mould
       | at the Green Parrot in Neptune NJ) that had to be the same show,
       | could not possibly have been a different weekend with some common
       | local band.
       | 
       | But there you have it. No contact until she noticed me sitting at
       | the bar watching a live band at a worn out dive bar/night club,
       | and wanted to know what my T-shirt said. She was drunk. She was
       | adorable. I was smitten.
        
       | lynguist wrote:
       | My takeaway is this: If you want to meet your significant other,
       | attend a university. After university your chances will dwindle
       | down as you won't frequent that big come together place any more.
        
         | greyhair wrote:
         | I had a primary care physician ask me where I met my wife.
         | 
         | He was old, early 80s (since retired and passed on) and said he
         | had been asking his patients that his whole career, and had
         | been keeping track.
         | 
         | I met my wife at a bar. Now, this was pre-smart-phone era, I
         | will grant you that.
         | 
         | He said that a little more than 80% of his patients met their
         | spouse at a bar. He said every time he heard someone say "You
         | need to go to church", "you need to volunteer", or any other
         | thing like that, he would interject that no, you need to go out
         | drinking and carousing with friends. And always with friends.
         | Apparently, out drinking and carousing alone is not nearly as
         | effective.
         | 
         | You will have to accept the word of dead physician from the
         | 1990s on that. Post 2008, the numbers have likely shifted.
         | 
         | But I still recommend drinking and carousing with friends.
         | (That doesn't mean heavy drinking, you don't have to get
         | plastered to carouse)
        
         | smallerfish wrote:
         | Romantic relationships formed in your early 20s are
         | statistically unlikely to last. University is a fine place to
         | meet people and have fun, but don't count on it as a place to
         | find "your" significant other.
        
           | the_af wrote:
           | But if instead of having a relationship that lasts forever,
           | you value having a meaningful romantic relationship that
           | lasts 5 or 10 years, university is pretty good.
        
             | smallerfish wrote:
             | Yes of course. But that's not what the person I was
             | replying to was asserting.
        
         | wzdd wrote:
         | The story leads with the fact that the author met her boyfriend
         | on Bumble, despite attending the same university and living in
         | the same city for five years. So that's a surprising takeaway.
        
           | throwaway2037 wrote:
           | I thought the same, but I am generation older. It made me
           | think: Does anyone still ask people out for dates in real
           | life? I am sure some, but the ratio must be incredibly low
           | now after online dating became so common. To be clear: I do
           | not think this is worse. For example, with the rise of
           | different types of dating apps, it does seem that women
           | (seeking men) have more agency in their dating life. In my
           | generation (and culture), women almost never asked out men,
           | so they were always waiting for romance to happen to them. Of
           | course, this has changed significantly. Some part is the rise
           | in agency of women (education, earnings power, social
           | changes, etc.), and some part dating apps.
        
             | bradlys wrote:
             | Online dating is common but it doesn't usually work for the
             | average man. It will work for most women but most women
             | don't use it.
             | 
             | Most men still need to find a partner through other means
             | like cold approach (terrible - it's highly dependent on
             | looks just like Tinder) or through warm approach (friends
             | of friends, hobbies, social groups, etc. - this is where
             | most average men meet their partners).
             | 
             | The issue now is the growing number of single men. This
             | number keeps going up every year and it doesn't look to be
             | improving. It's definitely leading to some not-so-great
             | side effects. (The number of single women is growing more
             | slowly)
        
               | alach11 wrote:
               | > The issue now is the growing number of single men...
               | The number of single women is growing more slowly
               | 
               | How is this possible, outside of gender imbalance or
               | imbalanced matching (i.e. one man in a relationship with
               | multiple women)?
        
               | bradlys wrote:
               | You've described all of it. I'd add in that there are
               | more baby mamas than there are baby papas too. Men are
               | born at a higher rate than women. (5-7%)
        
               | throwaway2037 wrote:
               | You wrote: <<but most women don't use it>>
               | 
               | First, do you have any sources? Most (Western culture)
               | highly-educated women that I know use online dating apps.
               | 
               | Second, as I understand, a major issue about dating with
               | highly-educated people: Women (almost) always want to
               | meet same socio-economic status _or above_. Dear HN
               | readers: Read that last sentence mathematically: Greater
               | than or equal ( >=)! As women are quickly holding more
               | than 50% of highly educated jobs ( _economically
               | practical_ masters degrees and above), this creates a
               | huge mismatch. See: Medicine, science, finance,
               | technology jobs. (Commentary: By 2030 /40/50, I feel a
               | huge portion of medicine will be women. Great!)
               | 
               | Real-world example: If a man is a public pre-school or
               | elementary school teacher (middle to lower income), his
               | chances to meet a high-income woman are very low in 2022.
               | 
               | On the contrary, many (Western culture) men are happy to
               | meet / date / marry women whom have (far) lower socio-
               | economic status. "Sexy, not smart." In the classic (out-
               | dated) cultural view, this is "big (male) boss"
               | dates/marries low socio-economic status executive
               | assistant ("secretary"). I have observed this is quickly
               | coming to an end in the last twenty years.
               | 
               | Real questions:
               | 
               | (1) Whom are high-income male bosses dating these days? I
               | assume: High-income women whom are breaking the glass
               | ceiling for senior roles. (Great! I support these women
               | 152%!) Or: These men date younger (and younger!). I have
               | observed both in my professional career.
               | 
               | (2) Whom are low-income/-education female executive
               | assistants dating these days? I assume they are mostly
               | single. Why? They want to meet high-income men, but these
               | men are more-and-more focused on other (still rare!)
               | high-income women(!).
               | 
               | Final comment that is very (deeply!) personal: If you are
               | not alpha-male or very high income, it is difficult to
               | meet highly-educated women. Basically, they are
               | "vaccuumed/Hoovered" (sorry: American English slang!) by
               | other high-income/status or alpha men. It is so tough.
               | Please, please, do not read this final paragraph as
               | discriminatory against women whom choose these men.
               | Dating is complex! Personally, my dream is to meet
               | someone who is a science researcher (academic) with a low
               | salary, but passionate about their work. Lots to talk
               | about!
               | 
               | Last: Please, please don't read any of this post as
               | something negative towards women. No, exactly the
               | opposite. I am more interested in how wealthly, highly-
               | educated societies will rebalance when women hold more
               | than 50% of educated positions (very soon in rich
               | countries!). In my view, it is terrific that women
               | finally have equal opportunity in my society. My mother
               | never had these opportunities, but her daughters will
               | finally have the chance for economic equality. Huzzah.
        
               | bradlys wrote:
               | If you have the time to write this all out - you have the
               | time to find the supporting statistics. Most women don't
               | use online dating - they've tried it but they don't use
               | it. This is why the apps are overwhelmingly male.
               | (Anywhere from 2:1 (lowest I've ever seen) to 9:1
               | depending on region and app)
               | 
               | High income women end up marrying their college partners.
               | A lot of these gals meet their partner in college and
               | never separate. That's how I see it for the majority of
               | women I've known in SV. Exceptions being those who didn't
               | go to college and weren't going to pursue a high income
               | profession (or were but bailed on it) but inevitably
               | chose it later.
               | 
               | It's hard to meet these women because they are few in
               | percentage and like most women - they don't go out to
               | meet men. They might use dating apps, they might date a
               | coworker, they might date someone in their social circle.
               | So, you're not likely gonna meet them organically at a
               | hobby or anything.
               | 
               | It's a rough world for men out there.
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | Any social gathering is a place where you can meet your
         | significant others, university is not the exclusive place for
         | that.
         | 
         | Most most introverted people tend to do though (myself
         | included), is attending less social events as they become
         | older. But you can still force yourself out there and meet
         | people based on your hobbies.
         | 
         | And who knows, maybe you meet your significant other at one of
         | those events for your favorite hobby?
        
           | thatguy0900 wrote:
           | Church is really the classical place. It's a shame there's
           | not a similar place for large groups of secular people to
           | gather once a week for social events.
        
             | andrewinardeer wrote:
             | Sporting events fit that bill. As long as the other is
             | going for the same team I would think.
        
               | bradlys wrote:
               | Are we talking about paying for seats to spectate? Cause
               | if so - I highly disagree. You might get lucky every so
               | often but I found people generally keep to
               | themselves/their friend group.
        
             | swat535 wrote:
             | I'm a Catholic so I attend Church often and in my
             | experience, it really depends on how the Parish runs; in
             | some places, people literally show up 5-10 minutes before
             | Mass and then rush to the parking lot as soon as it ends,
             | so you never have a chance to speak to anyone.
             | 
             | However, in contrast, my fiance is from Peru and goes to a
             | Latin Church; there you have a very strong sense of
             | community and can meet plenty of people. Also, you probably
             | won't be meeting your SO at the Church directly but you
             | will most likely be introduced _through_ someone from the
             | community (especially older people who have bigger
             | families).
             | 
             | The other thing about religious communities is that
             | "dating" is not about hookups or casual sex but more about
             | about finding life long partners and marriage. This can be
             | a blessing or a curse depending on what stage of life you
             | are in (though if you are truly devout, you won't mind) so
             | it's not perfect.
             | 
             | Anyway, for non religious people, there are still plenty of
             | ways to meet: Volunteering programs, social clubs, sport
             | centers, etc.
             | 
             | The only advice I would give is meet as many people as
             | possible because chances are your potential partner will be
             | introduced to you through friends of friends eventually.
        
             | spicyusername wrote:
             | Can't agree more.
             | 
             | Many of my neighbors go to church and I'm very jealous at
             | how much social capital it provides every single week for
             | essentially free.
             | 
             | It's such a shame that something so good is wrapped in
             | something so silly.
        
               | danuker wrote:
               | I don't go to church, but I interpret the silliness less
               | literally.
               | 
               | For instance, replace God and Jesus with the Superego and
               | Id respectively. You'd be surprised at how much sense
               | some quotes make.
               | 
               | But religion is so vague, it's almost mad-lib. And some
               | parts will still be complete nonsense or primitive
               | statecraft memes.
               | 
               | Sharing this with other church-goers might not be well
               | received, also.
        
             | NoGravitas wrote:
             | Unitarian Universalist Church. Ethical Culture Society.
             | There are quite a few non-credal churches or "not-a-church"
             | organizations built along churchy lines.
        
               | the_af wrote:
               | Many people bond over political activism and political
               | groups. I know many such couples. 100% secular, no gods
               | involved, no "church" even in the name.
        
               | Test0129 wrote:
               | I would argue in the current climate "political activism"
               | and "political groups" have replaced God and the Church
               | as a religion. Secular, certainly, religious absolutely.
               | I've heard from some people that they won't even consider
               | dating someone who has even an iota difference in
               | political views. If this doesn't sound like religious
               | dogma I'm not sure what would.
        
               | netsharc wrote:
               | And whatever the "elders" say, they agree, no critical
               | thinking allowed!
        
             | capableweb wrote:
             | Not sure if it exists in your country, but all over Europe
             | there are "Civic Centers" that host various cultural
             | events, activities and curses where you can meet people
             | from all walks of life. Great place to meet people with the
             | same interests as you and usually hosts relatively cheap
             | events as it's meant to be attend-able for all people.
        
         | tssva wrote:
         | Most people have or have had significant others. Although some
         | have met them at university most have not.
         | 
         | I have had several relationships where at the time I would have
         | called the person my significant other but in retrospect there
         | have only been 2 that have truly been significant to my life. I
         | met my wife at a bar. A few years after she passed, I met my
         | now girlfriend of 12 years at a farmers market where she was
         | selling pickles and kimchi.
        
           | greyhair wrote:
           | I noted in long form above. I met my wife in a bar.
           | 
           | I had a primary care physician in the late 1990s that had
           | been polling his patients on that his whole career, and said
           | that a little more than 80% of his patients met at a bar. So
           | there you go.
           | 
           | I also agree with your assessment on partners, I have had a
           | couple that were important at the time, but looking back,
           | where more like friends with benefits. Only two were really
           | significant. One that tortured me emotionally and basically
           | set me up for over sensitive warning flags for about five
           | years, what a mess. The other one I married over 25 years
           | ago.
        
         | shafyy wrote:
         | I would go as far as saying that most long-term couples meet
         | after university (at least for people who were born after 1980,
         | let's say). During university, a lot of people are still in the
         | experimentation phase. I feel like later in life, maybe end
         | 20s/early 30s, you had enough time to get to know yourself, and
         | know what kind of person you are, what you care about, etc.
         | 
         | Of course, this is anecdotal and based on myself and my
         | friends. But just as a counterpoint to your "go to university"
         | advice =)
        
         | chrisseaton wrote:
         | This used to be what everyone said. I remember an introductory
         | talk at university where they explicitly said 'and most of you
         | will meet your future spouses here' as if it was part of the
         | package. Feels like just a few years ago it used to be everyone
         | met their partner at university.
        
       | hownottowrite wrote:
       | Dan's not getting away with anything.
        
       | bitL wrote:
       | So this is how people get bombed based on phone metadata!
        
       | snorlaxmorlax wrote:
       | I've often thought about it, but I'm not surprised that there is
       | a way to figure it out with big tech involved.
        
       | victornomad wrote:
       | Many years ago, when everybody had Nokias with the Bluetooth on,
       | I used to do a similar thing.
       | 
       | I created a S60 python script that kept scanning Bluetooth mac
       | addresses and link them with the cell tower I was connected to
       | (no GPS yet on mobiles).Then later processed the logs to see if I
       | encountered the same people in different locations and times.
       | 
       | And yes, I re-encountered a bunch of Bluetooth mac addresses in
       | different locations. For me it was fascinating at that time :)
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | I believe the Nintendo (3)DS does something similar, but makes
         | it into a gameplay mechanic in supported games, SpotPass and
         | StreetPass:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpotPass_and_StreetPass
         | 
         | > Using the console's background connectivity, a Nintendo 3DS
         | in Sleep Mode can automatically discover other Nintendo 3DS
         | systems within range, establish a connection, and exchange
         | content for mutually played games, all transparently and
         | without requiring any user input.
         | 
         | > For example, in Rhythm Heaven Megamix, if the user passes by
         | someone with the same software, they will take on a figure-
         | fighting duel challenge.
        
           | victornomad wrote:
           | ah! really cool! I really love all these types of
           | interactions in apps and games I wish there were more
           | esoteric UIs and tech :)
        
         | bentcorner wrote:
         | Airguard kind of does this: https://github.com/seemoo-
         | lab/AirGuard
         | 
         | It'll scan for bluetooth trackers in the background (and
         | airpods and iphones) and can give you a per-device history.
        
         | FredPret wrote:
         | That's pretty cool; you ran Python on one of those Nokias?!
        
           | FridayoLeary wrote:
           | You can. I still have a working Nokia s60 at home that can
           | run a python script shell.
        
           | victornomad wrote:
           | yeah. Most of the apps were made in C (or C++, I don't
           | remember) or Java. But there was a Python port that was quite
           | awesome to make experiments.
           | 
           | This was before the Iphone was launched IIRC and I think it
           | only worked with the Nokia N series.
        
       | bradlys wrote:
       | I've wanted detailed tracking for years. Something that logged my
       | position every five seconds or something. I wanted this to be
       | something that other people did too.
       | 
       | Then we can decide to share histories and see when we ever
       | overlapped or were near each other. For instance - I became close
       | friends with someone this summer but it turns out we were both at
       | the same events across the USA about 8 years ago. It made me
       | wonder where else we had both been and hadn't really spoken to
       | each other.
       | 
       | I've also wanted this to be a live feature as well where you can
       | opt in to share your location and be like, "hey, Jim is just a
       | block away. What a coincidence! Jim is usually 1500 miles from
       | you." As a way to run into friends you haven't seen in a while.
       | 
       | Another instance is that I had lost touch with a friend from
       | years back. We had both lived in Seattle for years. I eventually
       | moved to SF and was at an event. I stepped outside a few times to
       | get air and on one of the times I did - I saw this old friend
       | walk by on the street (it's almost midnight - he was going to go
       | home to sleep with someone). I call out his name and he's in
       | shock and awe. We decide to hang out for 30 minutes and decided
       | that this was the sign we needed to reconnect.
       | 
       | That happened about 5 years ago and we've been very close ever
       | since.
       | 
       | Sometimes I feel like these kinds of things would be cool to
       | have. Or to do a prospectus and see a year ago - "oh interesting
       | - that guy I gave a ride to five years ago was at the same
       | restaurant as me... Huh - I wonder why we didn't see each other?"
       | The world is much smaller than we realize. I've run into people
       | in small rural parking lots of grocery stores in random countries
       | 8,000 miles away from where we both had known each other without
       | any coordination. If I had been even 10s later in my actions - I
       | would've never seen them sometimes.
       | 
       | I have a lot of stories like this. Timing is everything!!
        
       | texasbigdata wrote:
       | There's a play about this, the name escapes me, but it's a
       | "quantum" love story: two people meet and at each step options
       | present; the catch is the possibility tree doesn't converge (one
       | character had a midlife disease, which only happened in some of
       | the branches).
       | 
       | It was absolutely fantastic. Just tremendous. Think it played in
       | New York, Dallas and New York at a minimum.
        
         | defterGoose wrote:
         | If you remember what it is, please post the name, it sounds
         | very good.
        
         | Wuzado wrote:
         | This is not it, but the plot is _somewhat_ similar to Makoto
         | Shinkai 's movie "Your Name."
        
       | magicemoji wrote:
       | What a romantic girl. :)
        
       | thangngoc89 wrote:
       | This is a great article. Just to save everyone's time, here is a
       | directly link to Google Takeout where you can download the data
       | mentioned in the article:
       | https://takeout.google.com/takeout/custom/local_actions,loca...
        
       | shultays wrote:
       | Kinda creepy how you have access to your partner's google maps
       | history and you go through it. But hey, if he is happy with it
        
         | laundermaf wrote:
         | You say creepy, I find it to be an incredible level of trust on
         | one side and maturity on the other side. It could have easily
         | be "I can't tell you where I was" and "wow you met Alissa a lot
         | in 2005, I'm gonna break up"
        
         | grosswait wrote:
         | He volunteered the data
        
       | elzbardico wrote:
       | Plot Twist: When google's algorithms decided those two
       | individuals should pair, it started showing them ads for the same
       | events in order to increase the probability of them meeting.
       | 
       | The goal was achieved by the system in 3 months, exactly as
       | predicted with a 99% probability with a 95% CI.
       | 
       | The system's next goal is to subtly nudge the couple to reproduce
       | within the next year in order to help google meet their user
       | accounts targets for 2034.
        
         | vardump wrote:
         | Hmm... something like this? Maybe this video left out the
         | brainwashing part.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnsSUqgkDwU
         | 
         | (Google's famous ad, "Parisian Love", worth watching for those
         | who haven't seen it yet)
        
         | dqpb wrote:
         | Until one of them inadvertently triggers a TOS violation, at
         | which point it will orchestrate their breakup and then
         | deactivate their Google accounts.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | It's a funny "joke" but for a large percentage of people, their
         | college decision and entrance exams were the determining factor
         | in who they married; where you put yourself has a huge effect
         | on whom you meet.
        
           | tshaddox wrote:
           | And ironically, if you met your partner on a dating app in a
           | large city or metro area, your dating encounters were
           | ostensibly under direct influence by a tech company's
           | algorithm, yet you were likely in a pool vastly larger than a
           | college campus.
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | It's funny how predictive that is. There was a woman in the
           | dorm we'd lived in -- we were definitely not friends but knew
           | each other. A few years after graduation we ran into each
           | other at a party on the opposite coast...and ended up
           | together for a few years.
        
           | Cthulhu_ wrote:
           | I mean I moved out of my hometown with that - meeting people
           | - as an additional objective. It didn't work relationship
           | wise (I ended up with someone I met online over a shared
           | hobby / community), but it was an interesting experiment I
           | guess. I like to think I ended up a bit more worldly, a bit
           | more resilient to social situations and dealing with people
           | very different from me personality wise.
        
           | aloner wrote:
           | Going to an engineering college where the demographic was 99%
           | male, I guess I was determined to finish alone ;). But
           | honestly 100% agreed with your point, even with online
           | dating, a lot of people end up dating people they know or
           | people they meet through a common friend.
        
         | shagie wrote:
         | How about an old DUST short?
         | 
         | A Date in 2025 https://youtu.be/NZ8G3e3Cgl4
        
         | Demoneeri wrote:
         | Lol Google Assistant can't even tell me what I ordered despite
         | having all the emails in Gmail.
        
           | Tozen wrote:
           | They probably know, just don't want to share the information
           | with you. There are other higher paying customers to give it
           | to.
        
         | arethuza wrote:
         | That reminds me of the GCU _Arbitrary_ from the Culture novella
         | _The State of the Art_ - which liked to matchmake its crew
         | members.
        
         | muzani wrote:
         | Meanwhile, Facebook matches people to those they're unattracted
         | to, despite having _all_ the attraction data. Except for the
         | occasional moment that someone reads a WhatsApp story from
         | someone they haven 't seen in years, and then FB spams their
         | feed with each other.
        
         | WaitWaitWha wrote:
         | Wait, wait... Throw in Google Maps re-routing and you have a
         | dystopian movie. (It is talked about that Google Map re-routes
         | to odd paths to check if the path is still open.)
        
         | newZWhoDis wrote:
         | West world season 3 in a nutshell. It's definitely going to
         | happen some day.
        
         | andywood wrote:
         | Sure. AFTER I rage-quit this site and nuked my main acct, NOW I
         | come back to peek and an actually insightful comment is at the
         | top of a busy thread. I got universally mocked straight out of
         | the room here for saying these things 10 years ago.
         | 
         | And now I'm taking my Nostradumbass-like powers and leaving you
         | poor dears to your own devices again for a while.
        
           | bitL wrote:
           | Care to leave another prophecy we can check in a decade
           | before you go please?
        
           | nonrandomstring wrote:
           | Ohh my poor Cassandra. Prophecy and foresight are so cheap.
           | Everyone already knows where we are heading, even those in
           | the deepest denial. The Gods only stipulated that nobody
           | would _believe_ you. For what is to be done, belief is maybe
           | not so important.
        
         | literalAardvark wrote:
         | That's pretty disturbing, and not too far beyond capabilities.
         | 
         | I think the biggest one missing would be that iirc a date going
         | well seems pretty much random in dating service data, despite a
         | fair bit of effort to find correlations.
        
           | eru wrote:
           | I don't think randomness would be an issue. Google already
           | assume that people clicking (or not) on ads is a random
           | process.
           | 
           | Randomness is fine, just get enough smart people on it to
           | learn about the distribution etc.
        
         | Tozen wrote:
         | Excellent scenario. Except that a lot of the "algorithmic
         | nudging", can be unethically intended by the creators of the
         | algorithm or specifically tweaked/ overridden by humans in the
         | chain to give the results they wanted.
         | 
         | After all, "who" is in charge or has access to the data? Maybe
         | even an unknown individual or group, with their own agenda, and
         | outside of Google's stated corporate goals or awareness.
        
         | badwolf wrote:
         | Somewhat related, I had high hopes for Facebook Dating to be a
         | great product and a dating site/app disruptor. FB has all that
         | data, why not use it to play matchmaker? Unfortunately, like
         | many other Facebook ventures, it's nothing as expected, and is
         | just a "Here's people in your area. Kind of. Sometimes."
        
           | zo1 wrote:
           | They probably aren't allowed to use that data. Something
           | something privacy. And imagine the uproar from privacy fear
           | mongerers if Facebook tried to make such a product.
           | 
           | That is why we can't explore things that we "might" consider
           | nice. A product that might have been.
        
         | nova22033 wrote:
         | This is plot of a Black Mirror episode...sort of..
        
         | incahoots wrote:
         | oh, oh god. _they_ warned us this could happen.
        
         | simooooo wrote:
         | Also a great way to find all their past relationships
        
         | skapadia wrote:
         | That's some Black Mirror level dystopia there, and totally
         | within the realm of possibility, if it isn't already happening.
         | 
         | Sync that up with Apple Watch 8's ability to estimate
         | ovulation, and poof, declining birth rate problem solved!
         | 
         | I'm scared.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | Bakary wrote:
           | It's not much scarier than encouraging fertility via the
           | religious apparatus or just traditional social norms
        
             | andywood wrote:
             | Exactly. If your entire right hemisphere is permanently
             | shut down from making computers the core of your identity,
             | these are exactly the same thing.
        
               | ravi-delia wrote:
               | I mean if you pay more attention to results than vibe,
               | yeah they are. But you know, less coercive.
        
               | Bakary wrote:
               | What do you mean by that sentence?
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | gambiting wrote:
           | Don't worry, knowing google they would build this just so
           | someone could get their cushy promotion, then the whole thing
           | will be abandoned within 1 to 2 years max. Corporate dystopia
           | falls apart when met with the apathy at google, no problem.
        
             | hardolaf wrote:
             | There's no promos in maintaining the dystopian nightmare
             | program so it will be replaced by new dystopian nightmare
             | programs that do the same thing but worse every 2-3 years.
             | Eventually, enough dystopian nightmare programs will be
             | running in parallel that they will actually create a utopia
             | due to unexpected interactions between the dystopian
             | nightmare programs.
        
               | jnsie wrote:
               | Knowing google they'd have 6 competing dystopian
               | nightmare programs running concurrently. All would have
               | similar names.
        
               | AyyWS wrote:
               | Dystopio is signing off. Find your favorite features in
               | the new Apocalypse Wow!
        
               | sebzim4500 wrote:
               | And only one of them would work in Singapore for some
               | reason.
        
           | n0tth3dro1ds wrote:
           | >declining birth rate problem solved
           | 
           | Or maybe it declines more rapidly? Women could just use the
           | cycle prediction to avoid fun time on "risky" days.
        
             | totetsu wrote:
             | Or conversely it increases unprotected fun on "non risky"
             | days according to the apps.
        
             | Tozen wrote:
             | Natural birth control methods, have been a thing, for a
             | long time already.
        
               | n0tth3dro1ds wrote:
               | But they were far more prone to mishaps before a
               | biological monitoring device started to aid in the
               | calculations
        
               | Tozen wrote:
               | Not really, if "it" goes into a non-reproductive
               | location. No fancy technology required. It's not like
               | such things were unknown, even in ancient times.
        
           | jollyllama wrote:
           | It gets worse; to keep people in the workforce they can do
           | the opposite, steer compatible people away from each other
           | during the optimal reproductive window.
        
             | Xeoncross wrote:
             | It gets worse, it only steers over-performers and under-
             | performers away from each other so that the majority
             | middle-tier can be used for reproduction.
        
           | ravi-delia wrote:
           | This is like maybe the least dystopic use of advertising data
           | Google could go for! It just has the vibe of dystopia, but
           | ultimately if you hit it off with someone Google didn't
           | _influence_ you, they just made a correct prediction.
           | Compared to advertising to influence you to spend money it 's
           | nothing.
        
           | Cthulhu_ wrote:
           | There was a case where someone was getting ads for pregnancy
           | products before she herself even knew she was pregnant, iirc
           | it was down to search queries but don't quote me on that (or
           | that the story is actually true).
        
             | WaffleIronMaker wrote:
             | I remember this happening with Target in 2012
             | 
             | https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-
             | targ...
        
               | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
               | It was the woman knew she was pregnant, but her father
               | did not, which sounds a lot more reasonable than the
               | algorithm knowing she was pregnant when she did not know.
        
           | tut-urut-utut wrote:
           | > Sync that up with Apple Watch 8's ability to estimate
           | ovulation, and poof, declining birth rate problem solved!
           | 
           | Will never happen. Children are expensive, and once you have
           | them, you'll never ever again be able to afford most of the
           | Apple products.
           | 
           | Obviously, the incentive for Apple (and Google) is that you
           | don't have children, which can explain the low birth rates in
           | developed (rich) markets.
           | 
           | > I'm scared.
           | 
           | Now I'm also scared.
        
           | akiselev wrote:
           | _> declining birth rate problem solved!_
           | 
           |  _> I 'm scared._
           | 
           | That is one dystopia I might be able to live with.
           | 
           | As long as the watches don't default to Harvey Fierstein.
        
         | netsharc wrote:
         | I've had in my mind an idea for a short story based on this
         | idea. YouTube starts putting a particular band on their "watch
         | next" list, then the band schedules a gig in town, ensuring
         | that they both think "Wow, I have to go!"
        
       | infinitedata wrote:
       | These are amazing ETL skills, but a big red flag, I thought I was
       | watching the revival of the infamous Overly Attached Girlfriend.
       | As someone said there, this is great and scary at the same time.
       | 
       | Also, how come 2 people be so ok with Google having all their
       | location history? There are only two reasons why someone leaves
       | that function enabled:
       | 
       | A) they are Google employees B) totally ignorant to the fact that
       | Google tracks them
        
         | scrollaway wrote:
         | Google timeline may not be useful to you but it's an incredible
         | tool to record your own past.
         | 
         | Believe me, I care far more than google in my ability to know
         | where I was on April 24 2016.
        
           | Zobat wrote:
           | Same here, I believe that I get more value from this data
           | than Google does. I'm sure someone at X (insert any service
           | that has a lot of data I've generated) has done something
           | that I wouldn't be ok with with someones data. But as Scott
           | Hanselman has said; "Microsoft isn't nearly as organized as
           | it'd need to be to be as evil as you think it is."
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/shanselman/status/1003590025462681600
           | 
           | I'm guessing the same holds true for all the other services.
        
           | seba_dos1 wrote:
           | I don't think I have ever in my life thought "I wish I had
           | location history turned on so I could check where I was at
           | that date". Could you share some examples of how can it be
           | useful?
           | 
           | I do find it cool to have such data to do the kind of
           | analysis as presented in this post, but not cool enough to
           | let others (especially Google) possess this data as well.
        
             | WmWsjA6B29B4nfk wrote:
             | To me this is an amazing tool to extract lost memories. I
             | look at random tracks in history sometimes, and it's
             | surprising how much can you remember from that day that you
             | would never remember otherwise.
             | 
             | On a more practical note, I visited a random restaurant in
             | a town I was visiting which turned out to be an amazing
             | place. Didn't remember the name. A few years later I'm in
             | the same town and would not have found the place if not for
             | the location history.
        
             | Zobat wrote:
             | When was the last time (at the beginning of the pandemic)
             | that I went in to the office.
             | 
             | When was it the conference was at "that town".
             | 
             | Sure there's other ways to find the information but I don't
             | mind having it tracked. To each his own but I find more
             | value in it than I think I give up.
        
             | daveoc64 wrote:
             | It's great to be able to answer questions like "when did we
             | go on that trip to X" or "how long has it been since we
             | went to Y".
             | 
             | I live in the UK, but I can go back to May 2014 and see
             | everywhere I went in Florida on a holiday. Every
             | restaurant, theme park, shop etc.
             | 
             | It's a great way to take a trip down memory lane.
             | 
             | I also use it on a day-to-day basis - e.g. if I need to
             | record what hours I worked on a certain day, I can use it
             | to give me an approximate time I went out for lunch.
        
             | luckylion wrote:
             | Not the parent, but I can share one.
             | 
             | A guy I worked for long ago was part of a partnership of
             | architects and they split up. One of the other partners was
             | known for never parting amicably and sued him. He claimed
             | they had agreed on something and my client had failed to
             | deliver and thus owed him some large sum. He presented
             | notes he had allegedly taken during the talk they had a few
             | years earlier including date and time and the word of
             | another partner as support, who claimed to have been
             | present.
             | 
             | My client checked his old calendars and just found the word
             | "Copenhagen" for that + the previous day. With a bit of
             | searching and checking, he figured out that he was
             | incredibly lucky: he had been in Copenhagen that day to
             | sail in a regatta, had lots of witnesses and photographs
             | and easily won the case, the other two got into hot water
             | for falsifying documents and giving false statements,
             | though I don't know the outcome.
             | 
             | He was lucky to have had a multi-day thing and putting it
             | into his calendar. Not sure if "Google showed me being far
             | away" would've stood up, but it can certainly be useful to
             | know your location a few years ago.
        
             | scrollaway wrote:
             | Everyone already replied with their use cases and I've been
             | in several similar ones.
             | 
             | In general, I obtain a huge amount of value in being able
             | to know what happened in my own past. This can be both for
             | work and for personal reasons. For this, my calendar and
             | Google Timeline are the two tools I use the most.
             | 
             | Most usefulness is in the past 1-2 weeks, and things become
             | less useful over time, right up until they become extremely
             | useful. For example "Oh crap, I lost this thing, the last
             | time I saw it was on this date. What are the possible
             | places I could have lost it? Let's retrace."
             | 
             | It's hard to convey how much things change once you're able
             | to reliably have this information. Your mindset changes.
             | Things you couldn't do before are unlocked.
             | 
             | I would love a better Google Timeline, one whose data I
             | personally own especially. I suspect there will be an
             | explosion of these types of apps at some point once people
             | catch up.
        
             | scotty79 wrote:
             | I had my catalytic converter stolen. Thanks to location
             | history I could check when I left the car there and when I
             | came back and noticed the problem. Since at first I didn't
             | know problem was result of a theft I didn't take note of
             | the time when I noticed the problem and I also could recall
             | for how long the car stayed there.
             | 
             | Location history enabled me to accurately and confidently
             | report the time window when crime occurred to the police.
        
               | necovek wrote:
               | Did that help with tracking down the thief too?
               | 
               | I suspect the outcome is still the same of your catalytic
               | converter being gone for good, even if it helped you
               | narrow down details for a police report.
               | 
               | As such, the utility is still zero, since the desired
               | outcome is "get my property back", unless you needed this
               | many details for insurance purposes (they usually only
               | ask for a police report, and police are happy to take any
               | data since they are unlikely to find the perpetrator
               | anyway).
        
               | scotty79 wrote:
               | > Did that help with tracking down the thief too?
               | 
               | Of course not.
               | 
               | > I suspect the outcome is still the same of your
               | catalytic converter being gone for good, even if it
               | helped you narrow down details for a police report.
               | 
               | Correct.
               | 
               | > As such, the utility is still zero, since the desired
               | outcome is "get my property back", unless you needed this
               | many details for insurance purposes (they usually only
               | ask for a police report, and police are happy to take any
               | data since they are unlikely to find the perpetrator
               | anyway).
               | 
               | That was not the desired outcome. My desired outcome was
               | to make reporting to the police go as smoothly for me as
               | possible which I'd preferably entirely skip if not for
               | the fact that insurer required me to report it.
               | 
               | Talking to the police (or anyone really) is a stressful
               | event for me so any help with establishing what to say
               | was very much appreciated.
               | 
               | On semi-related note my car is at repair shop for 3
               | months already and I have no idea how much longer will it
               | be because apparently no supplier of catalytic converters
               | is willing to estimate when they'll have a single item
               | for Toyota Auris.
        
               | necovek wrote:
               | Sure, but when I had my radio stolen back in the day,
               | police officer politely notified me that they know who
               | generally breaks into cars to steal radios in my area,
               | but unless it was reported in an hour or two, they won't
               | be able to get it before it's resold or pin it on the
               | culprit, so unless I need it for insurance, I shouldn't
               | even bother reporting.
               | 
               | In cases like these, insurance mostly needs a paper
               | trail, and police are very well aware of that, and they
               | won't look for specifics. They'll probably even suggest
               | what to fill in: that's at least my experience.
               | 
               | I feel for your experience though, and I wish you your
               | car back on the road asap.
        
             | slig wrote:
             | The data is being tracked either way. You can only choose
             | if _you_ want to see it or not.
        
               | pelorat wrote:
               | not true
        
               | seba_dos1 wrote:
               | I'm not running any services that would report this data
               | back to Google on my devices. I'm aware that it can still
               | collect _some_ data on me based on my browsing and how I
               | connect to a couple of their services I still happen to
               | use, but I 'm fairly certain that it's nowhere near the
               | fidelity of what location history would give them and I
               | prefer it to stay this way.
               | 
               | Other replies so far have actually convinced me that I
               | don't need to reconsider it, as the benefits seem
               | minuscule compared to the price ;)
        
         | tssva wrote:
         | I leave the feature on and I'm not a Google employee or
         | ignorant of the fact Google tracks my location data. I find
         | value in having the data myself and don't care that Google also
         | has it. I also just asked my girlfriend if she has disabled it
         | and she hasn't. She isn't a Google employee and is aware it is
         | being recorded. So there are 2 more people. Is it possible you
         | are in fact in the minority in disabling it?
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | Curiosity is now a red flag? I find the whole thing cute. She's
         | not using the data for tracking down Dan and making him her
         | boyfriend, they are already together and she simply wanted to
         | see if they walked past each other in the past.
         | 
         | I do have my location history activated, and so does lots of
         | people around me. I'm neither a Google employee nor am I
         | ignorant that Google tracks me both physically and digitally.
         | 
         | But being able to have a timeline of where I am at times have
         | been both helpful and interesting, so I'm willing to trade that
         | data for the functionality I receive for it.
         | 
         | If you do know of a better solution that gives me the same data
         | but is not Google, please feel free to share it. I haven't
         | found anything like that that completely abuses my battery at
         | the same time and also guarantees to not sell my data.
        
         | Sakos wrote:
         | I periodically experiment with location history. I currently
         | have it enabled to be able to see my own history and I also
         | record it locally with a third-party app that saves it to my
         | phone. I've compared the location data and looked for patterns
         | or anything at all interesting. I've also thought about
         | building an app to basically give you the same functionality as
         | Google's location history while keeping all the data out of the
         | cloud and in your direct possession. I think it can be useful
         | and interesting to have this data on yourself, I just think
         | Google shouldn't have it.
        
           | scrollaway wrote:
           | Which third party app? I would love to know who has a good
           | implementation of it (with appropriate detection of venues).
        
             | Sakos wrote:
             | Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. The third-party app only
             | records my GPS coordinates and I process the data myself.
             | Unfortunately, there isn't anything yet that has any of the
             | functionality of Google's location history.
        
               | scrollaway wrote:
               | Email me if you're still interested in building this.
        
         | quenix wrote:
         | > I thought I was watching the revival of the infamous Overly
         | Attached Girlfriend
         | 
         | What? Why? Both parties seemed happy with it and it seems like
         | a cute thought experiment to me.
        
         | seba_dos1 wrote:
         | > but a big red flag
         | 
         | How can you infer that? She clearly had access to his location
         | history, it's extremely unlikely that it happened without his
         | consent. This is rather a vibe of two enthusiastic geeks being
         | genuinely curious about analyzing some cool data about
         | themselves, rather than anyone being "overly attached". We
         | can't tell for sure without more details about their
         | relationship, which isn't our business at all, so talking about
         | "big red flags" feels really wrong and paternalistic (which in
         | fact sounds like a big red flag :P).
         | 
         | > Also, how come 2 people be so ok with Google having all their
         | location history?
         | 
         | That's a valid question though.
        
           | jefftk wrote:
           | _> it 's extremely unlikely that it happened without his
           | consent_
           | 
           | "My partner kindly agreed to download his data and sent it to
           | me."
        
       | phkahler wrote:
       | >> Likely we had walked past each other every other week for
       | three years with our heads down, or in the clouds, paying very
       | little notice to the people around us.
       | 
       | Or looking at your phone...
        
       | burglekutt wrote:
       | Love this. Such a fun, creative, philosophical project.
        
       | ani-ani wrote:
       | The source is here, if anyone is wondering:
       | https://github.com/channon036/how_fateful
       | 
       | It's an R Markdown notebook. I've been finding these to be a nice
       | evolution on the literate programming concept. I also noticed the
       | author has been responding in this thread but her account seems
       | to have been immediately shadowbanned upon creation, seems to be
       | a common issue recently.
        
       | seba_dos1 wrote:
       | Fun fact: whatever you can do with this data, Google can do as
       | well!
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | They have the data, but they make sure to not show that they
         | have the data, because they are very aware of how creepy it
         | would be. They spent a lot of time on optics.
         | 
         | Do people who see ads get ads based on where they've been by
         | the way?
        
         | test6554 wrote:
         | While she likely got permission, having your girlfriend request
         | all your location data is a bit like Zuckerberg requeating all
         | your location data.
         | 
         | On some level alarm bells are going off.
        
           | seba_dos1 wrote:
           | Is it? My girlfriend is probably the only person I'd be
           | comfortable with sharing my location data with, given a
           | reasonable purpose (the one in this post would be good).
        
           | Tozen wrote:
           | A girlfriend may not be as trustworthy, as some people seem
           | to think or at least no more than what is selfishly
           | beneficial and to her advantage. Lots of guys find this out,
           | way too late.
        
           | danuker wrote:
           | Your girlfriend won't resell it or share it with insurance or
           | government agencies as easily.
        
           | archi42 wrote:
           | This depends a lot on your SO and your relationship to
           | her/him/them. Given _exactly_ the pretext from the blog post:
           | I can easily think of a past relationship where I 'd totally
           | agree with you (very distrustful person who could not have
           | resisted the urge to maliciously interpreted the data), and
           | another relationship where I'd be totally cool with it
           | (except I wouldn't want the heat map to be public). For most
           | of my past relationships (and my current, final relationship)
           | however such a request is unrealistic anyway; they simply
           | don't have the technical ability to do such an analysis.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | andyp-kw wrote:
         | We get it, Google has access to the data you share with them,
         | shocking.
        
           | Tozen wrote:
           | The interesting aspect of that, is what Google and other
           | authorities do with such data. They can be unlocking all
           | sorts of private trivia, unbeknown to any of the users
           | involved, to an extent far beyond any are suspecting.
           | 
           | That could include such authorities, manipulating or
           | interfering with events and lives, more than anybody would
           | think possible or should be legally allowed.
        
             | andsoitis wrote:
             | > manipulating or interfering with events
             | 
             | What might be a good example?
        
               | Tozen wrote:
               | Just for clarity, there was a "could" in there, in the
               | context of what I stated.
               | 
               | Google and other authorities having such access to so
               | much data about individuals, means they can know of
               | relationships, that the interacting individual parties
               | involved don't know about each other. So, if a wife were
               | cheating on her husband, that can be known. A line can be
               | crossed, where information is leaked to the husband, in
               | various ways. This of course is just a "theoretical"
               | example, of many other kinds of possibilities.
               | 
               | Access to private and personal information is its own
               | kind of power, that can be easily abused under many gray
               | areas, and under all kinds of pretexts and weak
               | justifications.
        
           | LtWorf wrote:
           | Also to the data you opt out of sharing but they ignore it
           | and share it anyways.
        
         | risyachka wrote:
         | And you telecom provider had been able to do that for decades.
        
           | Nextgrid wrote:
           | Nowhere near this level of detail. Telecoms providers (until
           | "hyperlocal" 5G base stations become commonplace) have very
           | coarse location info compared to GPS (as well as other
           | sources a typical smartphone uses such as Wi-Fi
           | triangulation). Even with 5G, smartphone-determined location
           | data is likely to still be much more accurate.
        
         | zaik wrote:
         | In fact, they can do a lot more since they have data on more
         | than two people.
        
           | lettergram wrote:
           | They know when your sleeping, they know when your awake. They
           | know when you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness
           | sake!
           | 
           | Seriously, they know every time you pick up your phone. Where
           | you shop, how much you spend, if you miss a stop in the
           | highway, if you text your parents happy birthday, if your
           | heart rate increases when you're around a particular phone.
           | They quite literally may know your gay before you do.
        
             | bitL wrote:
             | What is their current definition of "be good" so that I can
             | comply? Is there any changelog? Perhaps some future plan
             | introducing new parts of "good" and deprecating some as
             | well?
        
               | archi42 wrote:
               | If Google built such a product, you'd probably find it on
               | their graveyard. So it's best to be careful and not
               | antagonize them; because always remember: You only have
               | one digital life, so keep your head down and don't blow
               | it.
               | 
               | I wish that was pure /s, but the amount of "Ask HN:
               | Google banned me or my business for no obvious reason" is
               | really staggering. (n.b.: Of course I'm talking about the
               | old Google of 2022, not about the glorious overlords that
               | Google since has become; all praises the holy trinity of
               | Android, Google Search and Google Glurp for Glorps!
               | Please don't ban me.)
        
               | bitL wrote:
               | Funny nobody can even tell why they ban somebody because
               | ML just won't tell them why. "Hey, our
               | ML_ANOMALY_20220430_6C2DBE3AFC model ensemble has told us
               | to ban you, so we are banning you! There is no recourse
               | (unless you have friends at Google). Please don't contact
               | us ever again. We will ban all the people from the whole
               | block around you as well."
        
               | archi42 wrote:
               | Yeah. Due to this topic I actually thought "oh, good
               | idea, I should automatically download my whole Google
               | data once every month; better safe than sorry". Then I
               | realized that this might get me banned, because actual
               | bad actors probably do that as well.
        
               | bitL wrote:
               | Yeah, you'd be a glaring anomaly. Strive for the mean!
        
               | rattray wrote:
               | I'm sure they most cherish people who criticize Google.
        
         | WilTimSon wrote:
         | Hey wait a second, that's not fun at all, that's incredibly
         | depressing!
         | 
         | On a serious note, it does remind me of that time police
         | arrested a man on suspicion of a break-in, because he was
         | riding his bike in the neighborhood at the time and Google
         | recorded it.
        
         | lettergram wrote:
         | Google literally did this during the pandemic
         | 
         | https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/
         | 
         | So did apple:
         | 
         | https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/04/apple-makes-mobility-...
         | 
         | Only... they gave that information to government (supposedly
         | post-analysis and anonymized). Regardless the data was quite
         | literally used to "track and trace" then as a mechanism /
         | justification to place you under house arrest.
        
           | texasbigdata wrote:
           | Ehh, there was some really sketch things there. I think at
           | least for apple they might have potentially already built it
           | and this just moved their announcement date up. There's a
           | very weird simultaneously timed NSA bill in congress at the
           | same time.
           | 
           | /tinfoilhat
        
       | Location-Data wrote:
       | I was reluctant to mention this kind of story in such a sweet
       | context but a few comments have already touched on privacy, so I
       | want to add my two cents.
       | 
       | At some point in the past I had the surreal experience of opening
       | a news website and seeing a familiar face on the front page. Not
       | a celebrity, rather a man whose face had been in some small
       | subfolder of my brain for several years.
       | 
       | The man had been convicted of serial rape. He would drug victims
       | and record them. He was known to be active within a certain time
       | range from the timestamps of the videos. He repeated this dozens
       | of times and was only caught after the final victim woke up
       | during the act. Authorities appealed for people to come forward
       | with any more information because they believed there could be
       | more victims than were discovered from the videos.
       | 
       | By cross-referencing the location data from my phone with the
       | date of an event my Last FM profile and the location of his home,
       | I was able to confirm why he looked familiar. This allowed me to
       | contact the authorities and bring the start of the known time
       | frame significantly forward.
       | 
       | (there might be enough information in this post for the
       | perpetrator to be identified - if you do, please keep it to
       | yourself)
        
         | 3pt14159 wrote:
         | I took the pragmatic approach and said to myself "look, if
         | Google really wants to know where I am the only way to avoid it
         | is to go into the woods without my phone, so why not?"
         | 
         | Then one day the Toronto Transit Commission police thought I
         | was re-using someone elses streetcar fare because of how old it
         | was. I just prefer the streetcar to subways, so I took a longer
         | route. As soon as I pulled out my phone with my location
         | tracking they believed me. I didn't even have to resort to
         | mentioning that I used to work for the TTC as a coop student.
         | 
         | I'm not saying I absolutely love all this surveillance-lite
         | stuff, but in an honest breakdown of the tradeoffs for law
         | abiding people living in real democracies or other trustworthy
         | states I fail to see a huge downside at the present time.
        
           | browheresmychar wrote:
           | I'm sure people have opposite stories where instead of a
           | quick dismissal they received attitude, general harassment,
           | or escalation.
           | 
           | Small "crimes" like stealing streetcar fare are sought out
           | not because of the crime itself but because the more contact
           | points people have with police the more people are arrested.
           | There is probably an overlap of people who steal streetcar
           | fare and people who are harboring small amounts of narcotics
           | etc etc.
           | 
           | Just like in America we're pulled over on the road for the
           | most benign things just so there's contact with the police,
           | which leads to a higher rate of convictions.
           | 
           | I was doing self-checkout at Walmart and the dumb machine
           | thought I stole something I had already scanned, lo and
           | behold an officer appears out of the shadows with a general
           | attitude at me as if I was trying to pull off the grand-heist
           | of stealing GREEN ONIONS.
           | 
           | I personally think law-abiding people have a right to limited
           | contact with police.
        
             | 3pt14159 wrote:
             | I disagree.
             | 
             | Certain systems are more efficient if they operate with
             | high trust. The TTC is one of the places where we go with
             | the more efficient option that allows defectors to gain at
             | the cost of others. I actually know someone that is a
             | communist and refuses to pay TTC fare on the basis that he
             | thinks it should be completely socialized. He estimated
             | that the one time he got a ticket paid for only 1/3rd or
             | 1/5th of his total usage.
             | 
             | In other words, defectors are still net-ahead. The system
             | is under-policed.
             | 
             | But the small amount of policing that exists exerts enough
             | social pressure to stop widespread flouting of the rules. I
             | was happy to provide proof that my very-soon-to-be-expiring
             | transfer was from a valid trip.
             | 
             | I'm sorry that you've had a poor interaction with an
             | officer, but I think it's partially a matter of how one
             | treats officers. Even when I've been in the wrong, I did my
             | best to treat them with respect and I quite honestly have
             | been treated well by every police I've dealt with, save one
             | exception when I was pulled over in America. I accept that
             | this happens, and a curt reply and a stiff ticket is not
             | the end of the world and I am happy to have largely lived
             | and traveled in places where the police were civil.
        
               | ggus wrote:
               | Could it be perhaps because you are a white male, and
               | look fit and straight? Just hypothesizing.
        
             | throwaway2037 wrote:
             | When I stopped driving in the United States, I noticed a
             | sharp drop in interaction with the police. Years would go
             | by with zero interaction. In a car: A few times a year (or
             | month if unlucky). All of those automobile-related
             | interactions are an opportunity for you to make a small
             | mistake that will be blown up by the officer.
        
               | daveoc64 wrote:
               | It seems like the US has a real problem with this.
               | 
               | I've been driving for almost 15 years in the UK, and I've
               | only been stopped once by the Police at a heavily
               | advertised drink-driving checkpost set up during the
               | Christmas season.
        
               | throwaway2037 wrote:
               | Real question / No trolling: How do you feel about
               | "holiday season" motor car stops? On the surface, it
               | sounds great (reduce drink-driving), until you are an
               | ethnic minority and the police person is discriminatory.
               | Thoughts?
        
               | daveoc64 wrote:
               | Seems like another US-centric problem.
               | 
               | Discrimination does happen in the UK, but I don't think
               | there's the same motivation from the Police to arrest
               | people for trivial matters during this sort of campaign.
        
               | elliottcarlson wrote:
               | I recall a road trip with my father (this is at least 30
               | years ago), where we went to see my grandfather a few
               | states away. As we drove through some small rural town,
               | we were tailed by the local police for quite some time
               | until we hit the county line and they simply turned
               | around -- my dad told me at the time that they must have
               | been following us to see if they could find a reason to
               | pull us over. As I grew up, and started driving myself, I
               | believe that to have been the case. Quotas for tickets
               | and arrests are definitely a problem in the US.
        
           | masterof0 wrote:
           | The downside is, the government have 0 business knowing where
           | I am, or where I go. I don't need to justify my right for
           | privacy. And the argument of "if you are innocent, you have
           | nothing to fear" is lame, and toxic, that is like saying, you
           | don't drive that much, is ok to force you to take the bus.
        
           | flanbiscuit wrote:
           | I turned my location history off when I saw this story
           | https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/google-tracked-his-
           | bike...
           | 
           | headline: "Google tracked his bike ride past a burglarized
           | home. That made him a suspect."
           | 
           | HN discussion about it (March 7, 2020):
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22511637
        
           | feintruled wrote:
           | I think it was Isaac Asimov who wrote an article once
           | speculating on a future utopia where there would be total
           | information freedom and transparency - everyone would know
           | everything about everyone's movements. You could see why it
           | would be appealing - how could there be crime if you knew
           | where everyone was at all times? No body could cheat on their
           | spouse, no child would ever go missing. Seems hopelessly
           | naive now of course but you can see how it would work as a
           | thought experiment. In reality there'll always be a protected
           | class who get to hide their movements.
        
             | tialaramex wrote:
             | > No body could cheat on their spouse
             | 
             | Nobody could cheat _secretly_. They 'd still cheat. The
             | framing story in my favourite comic issue "Winter's Tale"
             | has more or less exactly this be scenario, "I was going to
             | tell you" he says. The people in Winter's Tale and most of
             | that run (Gaiman's Golden Age of Miracleman) live in a
             | utopia, but they're still people and they still cheat and
             | lie. The larger point of the story is that children won't
             | fill a hole in your heart.
        
             | Tozen wrote:
             | Good points. Those who don't have their information
             | exposed, are those with power. They know everything about
             | you, but you know nothing about them, or even how much
             | access to your life that they have.
        
             | Cthulhu_ wrote:
             | Naive indeed; on the surface it sounds utopian. But who
             | decides what a crime is? That's where it quickly flips over
             | into becoming a dystopia. I mean, for example homosexuality
             | is still a crime punishable by death in a lot of places; if
             | you cannot hide that, then a lot of people would be picked
             | up.
             | 
             | Your last point is exactly poignant; it'll be lawmakers who
             | end up above the law, above the control. Which makes it
             | more like 1984 than a "borg" utopia.
        
               | nearbuy wrote:
               | Your point boils down to privacy is good because it lets
               | people get away with crime and laws might be bad.
               | 
               | The solution shouldn't be to make crimes easier to hide.
               | It's to legalize homosexuality.
        
             | brabel wrote:
             | Which world would you prefer? A world where not a single
             | crime would go unpunshied, and hence serious crime would
             | probably disappear forever, but with the risk of the
             | Government or criminals (would they still exist??) abusing
             | the data for their own advantage? Or a world as we have
             | today where a lot of crime happens everywhere and where a
             | criminal just needs to be smart enough to never get caught?
             | I am not sure the answer is as straightforward as everyone
             | seems to think here. I think I would be willing to at least
             | run an experiment about this (perhaps China is already
             | doing it).
        
             | SamBam wrote:
             | I do expect the Right to Privacy will be brought up again
             | to the Supreme Court as a result of making use of location
             | history sometime in the next five years.
             | 
             | Indeed, I believe the first use of the "Right to Privacy"
             | was by a lawyer and Louis Brandeis, and future Supreme
             | Court Justice, upset that a journalist had written that one
             | of them attended a wedding.
             | 
             | Depending on who brings to suit, I expect it's likely that
             | even the conservative justices will suddenly agree with a
             | right to privacy.
        
           | nebulousthree wrote:
           | That's because you haven't been the victim of fabricated
           | narratives supported by your tracked locations as data in
           | order to imprison or blackmail you. This is just a rehashed
           | "if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry
           | about".
           | 
           | Thank you to the other commenter for pointing out the
           | banality of the "crime".
        
             | aendruk wrote:
             | Thoughts on logging your own location with free software
             | instead of Google doing it?
        
               | rendall wrote:
               | Got recommendation?
        
               | aendruk wrote:
               | Hoping for one, ultimately. A starting point:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30904003
        
               | rendall wrote:
               | That's cool, thanks
        
               | nebulousthree wrote:
               | I'm assuming you mean local logging of your location, as
               | opposed to burying it in a company's blackbox of a cloud.
               | I think it's a far superior option from a privacy
               | standpoint because you are in control of whether or not
               | that information exists to the rest of the world. That is
               | the critical differentiating factor.
               | 
               | I'm also assuming here that you are actively looking to
               | have your location logged -- something most people do not
               | explicitly sign up for before it starts happening for
               | them (usually after it has manifested results, people
               | accept it as some weird fact-of-life).
        
             | asdfdelta wrote:
             | That's really making the assumption that this didn't happen
             | before data tracking.....
             | 
             | And that argument is much, much older than the digital age.
             | If anything, extra tracking helps exonerate more than
             | without it (false imprisonment, etc)
             | https://time.com/wrongly-convicted/
        
               | nebulousthree wrote:
               | I don't see how historicity weakens the argument.
               | 
               | The reality is that data can be used to your benefit or
               | against you. Having more of it doesn't shift the balance
               | one way or another. It just means there's more
               | opportunities to take it one way or the other.
               | 
               | Your times article also makes no mention of location
               | tracking raising exoneration rates. It talks most
               | prominently about how cheap faulty field drug tests
               | contributed significantly to the improper convictions.
        
               | nearbuy wrote:
               | If you're innocent, more information about what happened
               | is more likely to exonerate you than incriminate you. If
               | you're guilty, the extra data is more likely to
               | incriminate you.
        
               | iinnPP wrote:
               | Every extra data point is an opportunity for abuse, not
               | exoneration.
               | 
               | When you are facing wrongful conviction, the assumption
               | is that you are unable to present evidence in an
               | effective manner anyway.
        
             | 3pt14159 wrote:
             | I didn't say _nothing to worry about_ I said that, on
             | balance, location tracking probably helps law abiding
             | citizens more than it hurts them. It 's an economic choice.
             | 
             | I am far less likely to initiate a serious crime in Canada
             | than I am to be falsely accused of a serious crime. It is
             | hard to fake exhaust data and saying "I saw him near the
             | John St Starbucks at 9am with a gun" is fakeable just by
             | following someone around. You don't need my Google data to
             | prove it. It's on the CCTV cameras, it's on the cellphone
             | towers my phone is pinging, etc.
             | 
             | I understand this makes people nervous, and I agree that
             | there is something to be nervous about, but when I talk
             | about the practical choice of recording your location data
             | to a provider like Google I don't see much practical
             | downside at the present time.
        
           | ekianjo wrote:
        
       | sevazhidkov wrote:
       | If you are interested in tinkering with personal data exports
       | using SQL, my friend and I made Bionic:
       | https://github.com/bionic/bionic.
       | 
       | The README includes an example of calculating songs you often
       | listen to while walking/driving/using public transit (by
       | combining Google Maps and Spotify data).
        
         | mahathu wrote:
         | That is insanely cool! I just requested my spotify data and
         | really curious to see the results.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | vonwoodson wrote:
       | This is interesting, if only for the fact that track data did not
       | show a correlation between these two people. 40-ish near misses
       | over a few years would never have made me think that these two
       | tracks were related in any way... then an external force brought
       | them together. I'd like to see how their tracks look now; that is
       | to say A) here's the tracks of people livi my similar lives w/o a
       | relationship B) here's the tracks of two people who share a
       | relationship (And eventually, not wishing for anything) C) here's
       | the tracks of two people who no longer share a relationship, but
       | once did
       | 
       | Building the relationships between two objects is, by far, the
       | most difficult part of the tracking problem. And, this source
       | code definitely does and interesting job to measuring...
       | something. That "something" seems like a worthy metric to look
       | into.
        
       | gvedem wrote:
       | "There were doorknobs and doorbells where one touch had covered
       | another beforehand. Suitcases checked and standing side by side.
       | One night, perhaps, the same dream, grown hazy by morning."
       | 
       | https://poets.org/poem/love-first-sight
        
       | nevi-me wrote:
       | This is a great use of one's location data.
       | 
       | I've personally found Google's location history to be a net
       | positive for me. From places I've been whose precise addresses I
       | can't remember (e.g. distant family events), to tracking
       | hospital, doctor visits.
       | 
       | I've even used it as a proxy for timesheets when I used to work
       | from an office on weeks where I wouldn't have recorded my
       | activities well (like which client I visited, how long I took
       | lunch, etc).
        
         | netsharc wrote:
         | It has a flaw though, if establishments change names, your
         | record of the visit also changes. If you had lunch at a burger
         | place 2 years ago, and the place closed down and a hair salon
         | opened up in its place, you'd "look back" and Google would tell
         | you you went to a hair salon 2 years ago.
        
         | kccqzy wrote:
         | I agree it's a great use of location data, but why not use a
         | completely client-side solution? Personally I use the Arc
         | app[0] to record my location history. I did notice decreased
         | battery life but I still have enough battery for a full day.
         | 
         | [0]: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/arc-app-location-
         | activity/id10...
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | texasbigdata wrote:
         | You just invented the next great dating app. Because I can
         | "game" saying I like or do something, but having to both
         | physically be there and review it is a cool angle. The catch
         | (outside the crazy permissions) would be it would greatly hurt
         | smaller cities: "oh you really like the only Starbucks in town?
         | Me too!"
        
           | SamBam wrote:
           | Bring back the old Four Square: oh, you like that Starbucks?
           | Well, are you _The Mayor_ of it?
        
             | nevi-me wrote:
             | FourSquare was great, their gamified app made it fun for us
             | to check in to locations. My friend works for his city's
             | local council, not too high a position. We all call him the
             | mayor of the city, because he used to be the mayor of a lot
             | of places there on FourSquare.
        
           | enchiridion wrote:
           | There was an app called hapn where you had to cross paths
           | with the people it showed you.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | coolca wrote:
       | I really like the article layout of this website. It is something
       | done by OP, or some framework that everyone can use?
        
         | channon36 wrote:
         | Thank you! Its an html document that I compiled with R
         | Markdown. Cosmo theme, with a floating TOC. :)
        
       | croisillon wrote:
       | Storytime!
       | 
       | Years ago I boarded an almost empty plane from my country to a
       | country where I had just started to live. The crew let a printed
       | list of the passengers on one of the seats, I took the list and
       | stored it somewhere. Flash forward few years later: I had met a
       | lot of people in that country, inclusive from my own country. And
       | one day, I rediscovered that boarding list I had totally
       | forgotten about, just to find out that I had ended up knowing one
       | of the persons on it.
        
       | swyx wrote:
       | this is fascinating. i'd be interested in an anonymous dating app
       | where i feed in my location and it matches me up with others...
       | highly likely that if we like the same places then we might like
       | each other (or at least, dating might be a bit easier)
        
         | amilios wrote:
         | There's actually a dating app with a similar-ish concept called
         | Happn (https://happn.com/), which basically is Tinder but if
         | Tinder only showed you the profiles of people you had actually
         | crossed paths with in real life. Fun fact! Not exactly what you
         | said but close!
        
       | HermanMartinus wrote:
       | This is delightful. I also live in Cape Town and met my
       | girlfriend on Bumble right after the lockdowns (and curfews)
       | ended. I'm tempted to do this as well
        
       | mikotodomo wrote:
       | > I'm glad to have gone down this rabbit hole because now I think
       | about the 41.25 near-misses we had, where if an audience had been
       | watching they may have been on the edge of their seats. On the
       | 16th of August 2017, exactly one week short of three years before
       | we would meet, we're recorded at the same GPS coordinates in this
       | spot where I frequently had lunch, near a coffee booth in the
       | social sciences building. Did he just trot past on the stairs?
       | Did he take a seat in the shade under the trees? Did we queue
       | together in line for coffee? I guess Google doesn't have the
       | answer for everything. but it's pleasant to imagine when we have
       | our coffee together every morning that years before we may have
       | silently enjoyed coffee near each other.
       | 
       | This is very sweet. I hope by the time I get married I'm this
       | good at coding, so I too could see all the times my husband
       | almost met me! By then there might be cameras with years of
       | accessible history scattered around the city.
        
       | mellowagain wrote:
       | Very interesting and cool tech and a very cute story! Congrats :)
        
       | donclark wrote:
       | Could this be an idea for an app? You can search your contacts
       | and it will show location, date and time of when you were less
       | than 20 feet from each other.
        
       | thejackgoode wrote:
       | Interesting how sometimes it does not matter. You meet in
       | spacetime. I would not have relationships with my wife, who is
       | subjectively perfect, have we met earlier in our lives. We have
       | discussed this on multiple occasions and the conclusion was
       | definite.
        
       | trashtestcrash wrote:
       | I really like to know what software is used to create this blog
       | post, the navigation is so good.
        
         | channon36 wrote:
        
         | hownottowrite wrote:
         | Looks like Tocify to me http://gregfranko.com/jquery.tocify.js/
        
       | princeb wrote:
       | i guess the next question is of those 33 recorded instances (or
       | 41.25 possible instances), how many people were around the two of
       | them? if they were literally standing within arms reach of each
       | other, but also within arms reach of a dozen other people, it may
       | not be that interesting if they never connected. but if they were
       | within 5 meters of each other, and there weren't anyone else
       | within a 100 meters of the two of them, that would have been a
       | pretty awful missed connection.
        
       | miiiiiike wrote:
       | This is the cutest thing I've seen all year.
        
       | chrisseaton wrote:
       | When my wife and I combined our photo libraries later in life, we
       | found a photo of the two of us, back-to-back at a ball a few
       | years before we first met.
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | I went to school with the brother of my older brother's
         | girlfriend; in an old picture of me on graduation day, she's in
         | the background to attend her brother's graduation. This was 17
         | years ago, I believe they've been dating for about ten years
         | now.
        
         | Lucent wrote:
         | I wrote software to find minimum spacetime distance between
         | camera rolls using embedded GPS. It runs all client side if
         | someone wants to try it out or take up the mantle.
         | https://github.com/Lucent/photo-distance
        
         | breck wrote:
         | Aww so sweet. I love stories like this. My wife and I met by
         | chance in Seattle in 2014, having grown up on different coasts,
         | but there was a period in the 1980's where we lived <50 miles
         | apart and I always wonder whether we ever met by chance as
         | kids. That's so amazing you found that photo. We will have to
         | combine photo albums like you and see what we learn.
        
           | netsharc wrote:
           | There's a reddit comment where the poster recalled, how his
           | parents would take the family on far away cities for
           | vacation. The parents would then do parent things and the
           | kids would just walk around the cities. In several different
           | cities in several different vacations, he and and his sister
           | would run into this kid. After a few times, the kid would run
           | being freaked out, but the poster and his sister managed to
           | "catch" him once, and introduced him to their parents. It
           | turns out, the poster's parents knew the kid's parents, and
           | at vacation times, the sets of parents would travel to the
           | same location and partner swap with each other...
        
         | coldpie wrote:
         | My wife and I were apparently at a party of a mutual friend two
         | years before we met. Neither of us remembers the other being
         | there. Apparently being the guy who brought an Apple IIc and a
         | box of floppies to a college party in 2009 wasn't memorable
         | enough!
        
           | rendall wrote:
           | > _Apparently being the guy who brought an Apple IIc and a
           | box of floppies to a college party in 2009 wasn 't memorable
           | enough!_
           | 
           | You'd be amazed at how few women find that exciting
        
             | c1yd3i wrote:
        
         | fudged71 wrote:
         | This should be a feature in Google Photos
        
         | throwaway787544 wrote:
         | The last person I dated and I figured out we had probably been
         | literally face to face a couple years before at an event, and I
         | was probably talking to her boyfriend about something.
        
         | dboreham wrote:
         | I spent a week working at the Inmos plant in Colorado Springs
         | in 1989, thousands of miles from where I lived at the time. It
         | turns out I drove past my wife's house every day that week. We
         | didn't meet until 1996.
        
       | boredumb wrote:
       | What a gentlemen!
       | 
       | How I used my new boyfriends tracking location to realize he
       | spends almost all of his free time in one of our local gentlemen
       | clubs!
        
       | klausjensen wrote:
       | Great hacking, great story. :)
        
       | nkzd wrote:
       | Very interesting, maybe an online service could be made for this
       | "have we crossed paths before".
        
       | victor106 wrote:
       | > Thanks to Google's location history quietly ticking away
       | collecting GPS data in the background
       | 
       | Thanks but no thanks
        
       | artec wrote:
       | Love is beautiful
        
       | operator-name wrote:
       | Wow, this is really neet! Whenever I see R (and the tidyverse in
       | general) I always can't believe how clean and easy it to to do
       | aebitary data visualisation like this.
        
         | globular-toast wrote:
         | Yeah. I really enjoyed my time as a data scientist when I was
         | fluent in R and the tidyverse stuff (in particular ggplot and
         | dplyr). It felt like a super power. People were consistently
         | amazed at how quickly I could visualise brand new data.
        
       | 2Gkashmiri wrote:
       | how i met your mother, hands down the best tv show ever,,,,,,,
       | did this before location tracking was a thing...... "the best
       | burger in NY", a classic
        
       | rvieira wrote:
       | This is simultaneously scary and cool.
        
       | oakesm9 wrote:
       | This sounds sort of similar to Strava Flybys[0]. It users your
       | run/ride location data and show people who posted public activies
       | that passed you by. Sometimes interesting, but I bet a lot of
       | Strava users who post their activities as "public" don't know
       | this feature exists and might turn to "followers only" if they
       | did.
       | 
       | [0] https://labs.strava.com/flyby/
        
         | ydant wrote:
         | This existed as a massive data-leak for a really long time. The
         | "API" didn't have any meaningful protection, and the service
         | was opt-in.
         | 
         | It was really easy to download flyby exports for any activity
         | and do analysis.
         | 
         | I had a script downloading my Strava recordings of my commute
         | and the associated fly-by data and was easily able to figure
         | out all of the people I was seeing on the way to/from work.
         | Since it linked to the activities and included profile pictures
         | and names, you could easily figure out a lot.
         | 
         | If I remember correctly, you could still see fly-bys of other
         | peoples' rides even if your own was private or followers-only.
         | 
         | It was a pretty massive oversight for a company like Strava -
         | and a bit of an eye opener for me about what kind of data I
         | might be leaking by making "harmless" activities like riding my
         | bike into public data.
        
         | infamousclyde wrote:
         | The Flyby feature has been opt-in for about two years.
        
           | oakesm9 wrote:
           | Ah! Good to know. I didn't see any reference to that on their
           | product page so assumed it was still on by default
        
             | ydant wrote:
             | It's carved out as a specific permission on the privacy
             | page now - https://www.strava.com/settings/privacy - and
             | also explicitly mentioned as turned off for "only you"
             | activities, but no mention if it's exposed if your activity
             | is "followers only".
        
       | etothepii wrote:
       | This story reminds me of the Tim Minchin song, if I didn't have
       | you: https://youtu.be/Zn6gV2sdl38
        
       | scandox wrote:
       | Can people now just meet each other without an App? Is it
       | generally possible to just kick off conversations with people you
       | haven't been introduced to? I mean if these two were sitting
       | under the same apple tree, they'd be on their phones checking out
       | Bumble, surely?
        
         | angryGhost wrote:
         | easier said than done
        
         | Yiin wrote:
         | It's just so much easier to do it using an app. You are pretty
         | much guaranteed that people you match with are also looking for
         | something similar or at least open to the idea. No guessing or
         | attending places for sole reason of hunting down a partner,
         | which is quite creepy anyways. It's definitely possible to find
         | some without an app, but not everyone is willing to just wait
         | for that magical moment of meeting the right person at the
         | right time.
        
         | tiborsaas wrote:
         | There are always people fishing IRL :) I'd argue that you have
         | better chances compared to an app since you are there in person
         | compared to a digital profile. It's more memorable.
         | 
         | It always took practice to be good at this, but apps made a lot
         | of people lazy so I'm not sure about trends.
        
       | nicgrev103 wrote:
       | I hope you two never break up. Put this level of ability,
       | rescources, time and effort into revenge and the results will not
       | be pretty.
        
       | carlmcqueen wrote:
       | This is an analysis should probably be read while listening to
       | Dave Matthews Band Ants Marching. Really cool analysis and fun to
       | see it written in R.
       | 
       | Jerr Thorpe had an app that gave you your power back and tracked
       | your phone info in a way you could have yourself for awhile but
       | it became abandonware and started eating battery life so I took
       | it off my phone. OpenPaths, that was it's name.
       | https://www.jerthorp.com/openpaths
        
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