[HN Gopher] The Anthropology of Farming Simulator
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The Anthropology of Farming Simulator
        
       Author : CapitalistCartr
       Score  : 56 points
       Date   : 2022-10-03 14:52 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.sapiens.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.sapiens.org)
        
       | adra wrote:
       | With so few death cage fighters, why are there so many brawler
       | games? With so few wanting to be soldiers, why are there so many
       | shooters? Pedantic question to pedantic answers.
       | 
       | But my real answer would be that some people are over stimulated
       | at work, and some are over. The understimulated one's I think
       | gravitate to the "grand feats" type of games while those who are
       | overstimulated at work are more looking for either laid back or
       | mundane games to play. All these "_ life sim" games are generally
       | in that mundane category and that's the audience most captive for
       | these forms of entertainment.
        
         | mradek wrote:
         | Experience the risk without actually taking any risk.
         | 
         | Although, I can offer an anecdote. I really enjoy playing truck
         | simulators, namely American and European Truck Simulator. I had
         | to drive a large box truck recently and I found it super easy -
         | the high up position, looking at the mirrors to back up and
         | parallel park perfectly, and the joy of the open road. Then I
         | realized that truck drivers do this every day for weeks on end
         | as a job. Really appreciate the folks who keep our economy
         | moving.
        
           | jerf wrote:
           | I think one of the underappreciated issues with the 21st
           | century economy is how many of us do the same thing, day in,
           | day out, hyperoptimized to the point it's economically hard
           | to justify switching tasks. (Or, perhaps more accurately, the
           | 20th century economy, which is still largely with us.)
           | 
           | Do a little of this today, a little of that tomorrow, even a
           | little of this and that within a day, and I feel like we
           | could all tolerate a bit more mundanity (for lack of a better
           | word) in our lives. Cut vegetables, drive a truck, pump
           | sewage, work a factory line, it'd all be easier if we weren't
           | doing the same thing all the time, 40+ hours a week.
        
             | m463 wrote:
             | > economically hard to justify switching tasks.
             | 
             | I vaguely remember some factories would not let workers
             | change jobs once they got good at them, to their detriment
             | (with carpal tunnel and other RSIs)
        
               | bluGill wrote:
               | That is less so now that factories are more automated.
               | The factory I used to work at (not in, but same building)
               | bragged that within 3 months everyone had done every
               | station once. While a little productivity is lost because
               | of experience, the boredom factor means less people quit
               | and so overall they do better
        
         | registeredcorn wrote:
         | Generally I get what you're saying, but do keep in mind that
         | there are some life sim games that are _extremely_ high on
         | stimulation.
         | 
         | Endless ATC, Firefighting Simulator: The Squad, Transport Inc.,
         | Cold Waters, The Invisible Hand, and 112 / 911 operator, and
         | Tin Can come to mind. There's also "study sims" like DCS World
         | which push you _really_ far into the simulation thing, both in
         | requiring a high degree of competence and in the amount of
         | stimulation you have flying a mission.
        
         | nonameiguess wrote:
         | It can't just be work, given the popularity of video games with
         | kids who don't have jobs yet. I guess you can speculate under
         | or over-stimulation of life in total, but that definitely
         | doesn't comport at least with my personal experience. I played
         | a bunch of sports as a kid and played video games about sports
         | on top of that. When I was a real Soldier in a tank unit, a
         | whole bunch of the tankers played video games involving tank
         | combat. Plenty of infantry played first-person shooters.
         | 
         | Some people just enjoy what they already do and want to do even
         | more of it in a way that doesn't create additional physical
         | hardship and risk.
        
         | flashgordon wrote:
         | Actually I never thought of it this way. When I feel very
         | understimulated at work (most of the time) I tend to have a ton
         | of side projects and/or play the action kinda games. Bringing
         | balance to stimulation is definitely an interesting
         | persepecive.
        
         | slothtrop wrote:
         | I thought age was a factor. In my youth I had way more patience
         | for the likes of Harvest Moon, and enjoyed the roleplay.
         | However, I didn't know what to expect. I wanted to develop and
         | customize the virtual property, pursue virtual relationships.
         | At a certain point you can't help but see the games for what
         | they are. I quickly grew bored with the repetitive menial
         | tasks. I liked the "idea" of a game like that, but not what it
         | amounted to. Now I can say the same for most jrpgs.
        
       | shagie wrote:
       | I don't play Farming Simulator (though an older copy of it is
       | sitting in my steam library)... I do play American Truck
       | Simulator.
       | 
       | For ATS, there's a certain relaxing of "just driving". You've got
       | a goal, and simple, well defined tasks - go here, pick up the
       | load, go there, deliver the load. The 'go there' part is largely
       | an autopilot of a few decades of driving experience with a bit of
       | "ok, this is different" when dealing with something that has a
       | large trailer.
       | 
       | For the most part, its something I can play without needing to do
       | any deeper problem solving. To that end, the game is relaxing.
       | 
       | With the nature of the game, its also something that one can "do"
       | - there are few impossible tasks unlike what one encounters with
       | a day job. The consequences for not completing something is a few
       | points however they are measured - but rarely game ending (and in
       | many cases, that's resolved with a save file).
       | 
       | It is about getting something 'realistic' _done_ in today 's
       | world of ever increasing demands.
       | 
       | (very late edit)
       | 
       | My current gaming binge is Hardspace Ship Breaker - which is a
       | game about being a shipbreaker for space ships. Its got the "this
       | can be routine" (though if you mess up the reactor it can get
       | very interesting very fast).
       | 
       | Ship breaking ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_breaking ) is
       | in the category of most dangerous jobs and space ships are
       | obviously not realistic. But it's the game that you can just get
       | into the grove and _do_. One of the best things about the game
       | (for me) is that it is 15 minute shifts. So you can easily say
       | "I'll play this game for 15 minutes on lunch break" and as long
       | as you stick to one shift, that's 15 minutes. The shift _ends_
       | and its done.
        
         | Teknoman117 wrote:
         | Its obviously not as light on the problem solving, but this is
         | why I keep playing Kerbal Space Program.
         | 
         | I'll admit, I play with the Mechjeb autopilot for doing most
         | maneuvers because they get so repetitive. But it's fun to have
         | an alarm clock full of different missions and switching between
         | the different things you have in progress.
         | 
         | Then I ran out of places to go so I wrote (and eventually
         | handed off) the Kopernicus mod to allow for more planets to be
         | added and the community keeps making more interesting places to
         | go!
        
           | ok_dad wrote:
           | One of my favorite things in KSP a while back used to be
           | building whole communications systems to slowly blanket the
           | system with automated rovers and ships. I would program
           | flight computers using mods on them and never actually
           | controlled any of them directly at all. It was pretty easy to
           | program missions where you did standard "take off, go into
           | orbit, transfer to another body, land, detach rover..." etc.
           | I miss that, and perhaps I need to invest in a gaming PC
           | again and sell my console before PS5's are ubiquitous in
           | stores.
        
         | bm3719 wrote:
         | I feel the same about ATS. In fact, I wish it was even _more_
         | boring, like real driving is. ATS has an unrealistic amount of
         | curves and shortens the distances between cities that in real
         | life would take many hours to travel between.
         | 
         | It also is devoid of any of the (often catastrophic) downsides
         | of making a mistake in real life. Turns out driving can be
         | relaxing and fun if you remove anxiety involving death, injury,
         | and property damage. Perhaps the same applies to farming sims.
        
           | mr_cyborg wrote:
           | You need to check out Desert Bus.
        
             | m463 wrote:
             | lol
             | 
             | > The objective of the game is to drive a bus from Tucson,
             | Arizona, to Las Vegas, Nevada, in real time at a maximum
             | speed of 45 mph (72 km/h). The feat requires eight hours of
             | continuous play in real time to complete.
             | 
             | > If the player makes it to Las Vegas, one point is scored.
             | The player has the option to make the return trip to Tucson
             | for another point, a decision which must be made in a few
             | seconds or the game ends.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_%26_Teller%27s_Smoke_and
             | _...
        
           | jackcosgrove wrote:
           | > In fact, I wish it was even more boring, like real driving
           | 
           | A realistic driving simulator from Omaha to Cheyenne would be
           | pretty boring, I'll give you that.
        
             | Tade0 wrote:
             | How about from Tucson, Arizona, to Las Vegas, Nevada?
        
               | tialaramex wrote:
               | Note that in reality this is probably rather _less_
               | boring than Desert Bus makes it look because the game
               | deliberately over-simplifies the route. For a start
               | Phoenix is in between Tucson and Las Vegas, but if you
               | head that way you 're also going over the Hoover Dam
               | which is a bit more interesting than Desert Bus.
               | 
               | Now, you could head south of Phoenix, and mostly avoid
               | anything interesting, but you still have a few
               | intersections and so on, this is not one endless road
               | into the desert.
               | 
               | Which isn't to say it'd be a compelling experience, even
               | the Hoover Dam route would be extremely boring for most
               | of the duration.
        
       | davesque wrote:
       | I think one reason people like farming games (and games in
       | general really) is that they're fair. You perform a set of
       | actions and get a reward. Sure, some games feel sort of unfair if
       | they're poorly designed. But I think all video games are fair in
       | the sense that they're deterministic. And I know that when I've
       | enjoyed playing farming games, I enjoy the sense of growth that I
       | know is guaranteed to those that learn the rules. Real life is
       | not the same. You can follow all the rules, play fair, and still
       | lose.
        
       | speeder wrote:
       | For me it is because I found no way to own a real farm. I would
       | love to have one, but couldn't figure out how to get one.
       | 
       | Sad part of that is that I have a bunch of relatives that do own
       | farms, but have no interest in farming, the only reason they have
       | those farms is so they can wait the land price to raise before
       | they sell it eventually.
        
         | JoeAltmaier wrote:
         | Yeah farming is a several million dollar investment in land and
         | equipment, for the dubious privilege of being lower-middle-
         | class
        
           | bequanna wrote:
           | Lower middle class?
           | 
           | Come to Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska, etc and visit a farm.
           | Their reported annual income may be small because of
           | amortization/depreciation, but net worth is very typically
           | several million.
           | 
           | If you're a poor farmer, you're not doing it right.
        
             | AngryData wrote:
             | Their net worth doesn't really reflect their income though.
             | Most farms are running on sub 1% profit margins. You dump 5
             | million dollars on your fields and you would consider
             | $50,000 profit a successful year.
        
               | JoeAltmaier wrote:
               | Yes exactly my point. Net worth is because of the
               | enormous up-front investment. Cash flow does not justify
               | that investment.
               | 
               | And yes, I'm from Iowa.
        
       | pwinnski wrote:
       | "With so few ghosts, why is Pac-man so popular?"
       | 
       | "With so few alien invaders, why are video games about invading
       | aliens so popular?"
       | 
       | "With so few NFL teams, why are video games about managing NFL
       | teams so popular?"
        
       | emrah wrote:
       | Because a lot of people want to buy a farm and grow their own
       | food and cattle, live with nature in nature yada yada. But they
       | realize they either can't afford it or it's too difficult
       | physically. Games offer an alternative. It's not the real deal
       | but the brain makes it sort of real and that's good enough for
       | some. They can live the fantasy without any of the cow dodo
        
       | ISL wrote:
       | Precisely because so many people would like to farm, small-scale
       | farming is a brutal economic environment. In that respect, it
       | isn't terribly different from academia -- people are doing it for
       | love and the experience, not for money.
       | 
       | Simulating the farming experience without the massive financial
       | risk (and the back-breaking work/unforgiving hours) gives some of
       | that joy without most of the downside.
       | 
       | If you're willing to volunteer to cover night-time calving for
       | cattle in snowstorms in February, you can probably get the real
       | experience for free.
        
       | junon wrote:
       | I love dogs. I don't want a dog (yet, I guess). It's a huge
       | commitment. If I get a chance to periodically interact with a dog
       | - just the good parts, especially, such as petting, playing,
       | running around, etc. - then I'm going to take it. It still
       | doesn't mean I want to adopt a dog.
       | 
       | Apply this to being a farmer, which is a lot of work, and weigh
       | this against the barrier to entry of being a farmer for just a
       | few hours every so often, vs. doing it digitally.
        
         | yamtaddle wrote:
         | These games almost never include the really shitty parts, even
         | the "realistic" ones.
         | 
         | Running to the farm & feed store (perhaps an hour round trip,
         | or even more, depending on where you are, and it's getting in
         | the way of getting actual work done) for something or another,
         | mending fences, grading drive-ways and other roads, cleaning
         | yourself and your clothes and boots up after you get covered in
         | mud, cleaning equipment, getting tractors un-stuck, _repairing_
         | tractors, and so on.
         | 
         | And what they do include is a button press, not a process. Hook
         | up a discer? Back up to it and press the button. No getting
         | out, screwing with chocks and some kind of device or another
         | for raising the tongue into place. No pinching the shit out of
         | your hand because you were careless.
         | 
         | No weed-eating around equipment that's parked outside. No re-
         | painting the barn. No re-sealing some screw holes in the sheet
         | metal roof that've been leaking. No diagnosing and fixing a
         | slipped belt on the combine. No tossing square bales onto a
         | trailer.
         | 
         | No cuts on your arms from corn leaves. No itchiness from
         | handling straw. No hay (ha, ha) fever. No spending an entire
         | morning getting one damn cow or another in the chute for the
         | veterinarian.
         | 
         | These "realistic" simulators still almost always cut out all
         | the worst crap that's the reason people don't have tons and
         | tons of fun doing it in real life. The stuff you do in the game
         | is maybe 5-10% of what you _really_ do.
        
           | htrp wrote:
           | Man I can already feel the anger at having to repaint that
           | fence.....
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | You just described having grandkids vs having your own kid! A
         | niece/nephew is similar as well. Be the cool aunt/uncle, be the
         | grandparent that feeds the kids sugar just before the parents
         | come to collect them, or any of the other ways of enjoying the
         | time with the kiddos but being able to get back for all the
         | times the kid/sibling was an ass to you!
        
         | ksec wrote:
         | Not only that. The economics side of it. Not everyone could
         | afford a dog. It is quite a bit of money, from the space
         | required for living to the food and medical care.
         | 
         | Also in farming. I do think there are people who like the hard
         | work and simple life. But as a business it is terrible.
        
           | zdragnar wrote:
           | $400 a month in food (two large dogs, both turned out to need
           | specialty diets) gets old fast.
           | 
           | That said, I dearly love my dogs and am trying rather hard to
           | not think about the tens of thousands of dollars I will end
           | up spending _just on food alone_.
        
         | josefresco wrote:
         | >If I get a chance to periodically interact with a dog - just
         | the good parts, especially, such as petting, playing, running
         | around, etc. - then I'm going to take it.
         | 
         | I had a couple of dogs who died of old age. I couldn't bring
         | myself to get another dog so instead we dog sit! We use the
         | Rover app and it's been pretty awesome. You get to be a "doggy
         | grandparent" for a couple days, spoil the crap out of them and
         | then poof! They go back to their owners and you don't have to
         | deal with all their BS (because let's be honest: almost every
         | dog his it's own BS)
        
       | liampulles wrote:
       | My father was a farmer. Pretty stressful business in real life -
       | not fun when your ostriches get bird flu. But a farm is certainly
       | a beautiful break from city life.
        
       | CuriouslyC wrote:
       | Transforming a piece of land and raising animals is fun and
       | rewarding, hence why people garden and have pets. Unfortunately
       | modern farming requires you to sacrifice the aesthetic and humane
       | in order to be profitable unless you can build a dedicated
       | clientele of people willing to pay a 400% markup for your food,
       | or your farm's actual business is agro-tourism/goat yoga/etc.
        
         | bequanna wrote:
         | Not true.
         | 
         | Organic agriculture/horticulture on a scale large enough to
         | survive is definitely possible and best practices are usually
         | well-documented by your state's extension.
         | 
         | Conventional, factory farming is "easier" and more widespread,
         | so there is more comfort in numbers doing that.
        
       | giantg2 wrote:
       | Videogames allow you to do stuff you wouldn't in real life. There
       | are a lot of non-farmers out there.
        
       | PeterStuer wrote:
       | A huge difference between a game and a job is that you can quit
       | the game at any time without consequences. That creates an
       | entirely different state of mind.
        
       | selimnairb wrote:
       | Imagined social relations.
        
       | makz wrote:
       | Because videogame farming is unlike real farming, the boring,
       | tedious, hard parts are taken away.
        
         | hitpointdrew wrote:
         | Have you played farming simulator? I'd rather do real farming,
         | but I don't have the capital to invest in that sort of
         | equipment, so I guess farming simulator it is then.
        
         | nightski wrote:
         | I'm not even sure it has anything to do with that. Boring &
         | tedious parts exist in many video games.
         | 
         | IMO, It's that you don't need to buy millions in assets using
         | debt to generate a profit at great risk based on many factors
         | that you have no control over.
        
       | croes wrote:
       | Knowing the difference between a job and a game.
        
       | throw0101a wrote:
       | _Penny Arcade_ had a comic on this recently:
       | 
       | * https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2022/09/16/farm-minimizat...
        
       | TheCoelacanth wrote:
       | Yeah, why aren't there more games about making spreadsheets and
       | powerpoints? Obviously, there's EVE Online, but that's only one
       | game.
        
       | josefresco wrote:
       | I read an article a while back that asked a farmer why he works
       | all day and then comes home to play a farming sim. He basically
       | said in the "real world" things constantly go wrong, but in the
       | sim it's much smoother/easier etc. I _totally_ get it.
        
       | Overtonwindow wrote:
       | From this I gather the reason is quite simple: air conditioning.
        
       | NDizzle wrote:
       | For me, it's Snow Runner. Mud Runner had a more challenging UI.
       | Snow Runner is a bit better. Not perfect, but better.
       | 
       | You have simple tasks and an open world for you to decide how to
       | accomplish the task. There's typically an easy way, which
       | requires more time to complete due to the travel distance
       | involved. And then you can scale all the way up however difficult
       | you want.
       | 
       | And then there's the recovery effort, when your "it didn't look
       | that deep/muddy/steep" plan falls through.
       | 
       | I do like the farming games though. Or at least I did, until I
       | bought 5 acres in the country and got out here. Now if I get the
       | itch for a farming game, I do some kind of project.
        
       | mbfg wrote:
       | The idea of farming is very alluring, Be your own boss, live a
       | healthy lifestyle with family, produce something very useful for
       | society.
       | 
       | The reality of farming is that of a death trap. Brutal work, low
       | pay, total imprisonment.
       | 
       | (Except potentially for the biggest of operations, don't know
       | about that).
       | 
       | There's a common quip...
       | 
       | It is very easy to become a millionaire as a farmer, it's a two
       | step process.
       | 
       | 1) Be a billionaire 2) Buy a farm
        
       | mywittyname wrote:
       | > The popularity of farming simulators points to people's
       | enduring engagement with farming as a way to understand our
       | relationship with the natural world, not just a system of food
       | production. Farming has been fundamental [...]
       | 
       | This is really overthinking the subject.
       | 
       | Simulation games often have really tight, addicting game play
       | loops. The player starts with nothing and has to do everything in
       | a grueling, manual fashion. But each iteration of the game loop,
       | the player gets a minor upgrade that makes them slightly more
       | effective and/or adds an additional challenge to consider. After
       | a few hundred iterations, the player has built a gargantuan
       | automata that handles the core gameplay loop, freeing them up to
       | focus on ancillary projects like decorating or collecting.
       | 
       | This is exactly the kind of situation that hammers on the
       | dopamine receptors of a lot of people. Do something challenging,
       | get a reward, then invest that reward to get a better one the
       | next time. It's basically gambling.
       | 
       | Farming happens to be a subject that carries a lot of
       | preconceptions, allowing players to pickup the game concepts a
       | lot more quickly without as many tutorials. But there are plenty
       | of simulation games out there with different subjects but similar
       | game play loops.
       | 
       | I spent like 40 hours playing a game about salvaging space ships.
       | I don't have any particular desire to be in space not do I like
       | space ships or anything. It just happens to be a game that
       | follows this formula, so it's fun.
        
       | Apreche wrote:
       | Because with virtual farming you don't have to shovel poop. You
       | can also harvest an entire field with one mouse click. Pretty
       | obvious why few people want to actually become farmers. Despite
       | all the mechanization, it's still difficult, dangerous, and
       | dirty.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | Right, because when you fail in a game, you just insert another
         | $.25 and continue. When the crops fail for a real farmer, there
         | is no spawn point to start over. It might literally cost them
         | the farm.
        
           | bequanna wrote:
           | Not exactly.
           | 
           | In the US, subsidized crop insurance lowers the risk of low
           | yields and provides a nice safety net.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | Yes, this is why so many small family farms are being sold
             | out to corpFarm left, right, center.
        
               | bequanna wrote:
               | I guess I'm not familiar with this. I live in northern
               | midwestern farm country (corn/soybean fields) and can see
               | some consolidation, but still almost all family farms.
        
       | incomingpain wrote:
       | Besides "Americas army" there really arent any video games with
       | an intention of bringing you to the profession. It's really just
       | about having fun. I do recall a US general talking about how this
       | doesn't work and the overweight/obesity epidemic amongst gamers
       | is a huge impediment to enrollment. Video games aside.
       | 
       | Really the question, why so few farmers?
       | 
       | Government education has specifically trained and discouraged
       | people from becoming farmers, intentionally reducing the number
       | of farmers.
       | 
       | Biosciences has made farming quite unprofitable. The use of
       | fertilizers, gmos, pesticides, etc have made a small time farmer
       | basically unprofitable compared to the farmer with 80,000 acres
       | and large machines.
       | 
       | There are better professions to earn a living. Hell, the cost of
       | startup is ridiculous. ~86 acres near where i live is $5 million.
       | 
       | You also cant really live near cities. There's no rockstars
       | coming to rural canada. You have to live in toronto to get those
       | rockstars. Good internet is also not in rural areas.
       | 
       | But then you also have governments actively taxing farmers to
       | tremendous degree. For example, Carbon taxes disproportionately
       | impact a farmer's old diesel in his massive tractor compared to a
       | econobox tiny car. Farmers obviously don't care. A wide carbon
       | tax like that ends up in the consumer's hands as food inflation.
       | 
       | https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/food-inflation
       | 
       | Basically nobody has normal/low food inflation because of this.
       | 
       | Then you have the 'fertilizer reductions'...
       | https://wheatgrowers.ca/advocacy-resources/fertilizer-reduct...
       | 
       | IF you work in an industry where the government is actively
       | screwing you over so much. You choose a new profession right
       | away. Hence no farmers.
        
       | cybaz wrote:
       | I met a guy once who was a roofer. He told me "Putting on roofs
       | is the easy part. It's the making a living doing it that's tough"
        
       | h2odragon wrote:
       | Just like flight simulators: how else can you smash millions of
       | dollars of precision machinery into a building without severe
       | consequences?
        
         | ChicagoBoy11 wrote:
         | As someone who got a pilot's license because of flight
         | simulator, I'm honestly shocked actually at how much the
         | virtual experience can successfully scratch the itch of the
         | real thing. Sure, there's a thrill that cannot be matched and
         | despite a high-end VR set up at home, the graphics in real life
         | are better, but there's a good amount of the joy I get from the
         | real thing -- the technical challenge, the navigation, the
         | brief escape of being immersed in this activity and not
         | thinking about much else, etc. -- that nowadays you can very
         | faithfully recreate in the sim. And, unlike real life, it is
         | comparably 0 cost activity in terms of setup/price/time.
        
         | ivanmontillam wrote:
         | Just like GTA: How do you realize your wildest dreams without
         | having to actually commit crimes?
        
       | mikkergp wrote:
       | I watch a lot of the historical farming series, Victorian Farm,
       | Edwardian Farm
       | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_historic_farm_series) And,
       | despite the many different ways people choose to live, there's
       | still this idea that the way we live now is the best way. The
       | title of this is article is a bit strange, but I've noticed in
       | some of the, maybe it's hustle porn communities on Twitter,
       | there's this notion that if you're not automating all of the
       | manual labor in your life you're doing it wrong.
       | 
       | But there's something very nourishing about the idea of living in
       | a world where you're interacting with and directly influencing
       | the physical world around you. Both to care for a plot of land
       | and to make things by hand. I think there's also something nice
       | about living in a small world. No grandiose interconnectedness.
       | You, your family, your community, your livestock and the land
       | around you.
       | 
       | It's so hard to get some of that I think unless you're also
       | willing to completely give up living modern life and move out to
       | the middle of nowhere ala Life Below Zero, or if you're wealthy
       | enough to own land close to town (I'm fortunate enough to have
       | found a nice 2 acres close to town, but it costs a premium
       | compared to other houses the same size). Simulation is a great
       | way to get some of that in small doses.
        
         | mason55 wrote:
         | IMO the big difference is doing it at your leisure and being
         | able to take a break vs. being required to do it 24/7.
         | 
         | When I'm frustrated with my job and modern life in general it's
         | easy to imagine running away and living on a farm. When I'm
         | sleeping in on a Saturday or taking a spontaneous weekend
         | getaway I'm very glad that I don't live on a farm.
        
           | SQueeeeeL wrote:
           | I mean, you could easily have a farm with enough communal
           | labor that someone could pick up your slack if you took a few
           | days off. Vacation isn't a modern luxury, serf farmers were
           | basically off 50% of the time
        
       | gmuslera wrote:
       | Farming: The Good Parts.
       | 
       | And some of those games include also the good parts of social
       | interaction, fishing, foraging and more, in a simple enough way,
       | not the complex, messy and tiresome reality. Probably some
       | farmers enjoy those games, but the gamers may not like all what
       | is involved in real life farming (and things that works around
       | it, like i.e. economy).
        
       | neaden wrote:
       | I think a big part of this is that so many video games are based
       | on violence, without many alternatives. And the ones that are non
       | violent tend to be shorter and more story focused. I think a lot
       | of people want a game that is non-violent, more open world, and
       | has some grind. Farming and survival are two ways to do that, but
       | I think something like a cafe-sim would scratch the same itch for
       | many people.
        
         | d4mi3n wrote:
         | This is true of a lot of main stream video games, but there's a
         | whole genre of games that are much more wholesome, slice-of-
         | life experiences. Consider: Harvest Moon, Stardew Valley, Slime
         | Rancher, and Katamari Damacy--all of which are successful game
         | IP without any of the stereotypical violence we see in AAA
         | shooters.
         | 
         | I've found the "cozy" genre on Steam to also be a great way to
         | find games like these, though I suspect there are other terms
         | that can be used to find them:
         | https://store.steampowered.com/tags/en/Cozy
        
           | vorpalhex wrote:
           | Stardew has multiple dungeons with sword fighting. Even Slime
           | Rancher has turrets and fighting (though very
           | cartoony/gentle).
        
         | potatolicious wrote:
         | This is the crux of it for me. Don't get me wrong, I like me a
         | shooter from time to time, but as I've gotten older I find
         | myself not often liking the adrenaline-filled games being
         | pitched.
         | 
         | And Sim-type games really scratch that itch. They often have
         | (relatively) deep gameplay mechanics that are easy to learn but
         | hard to master, don't have a lot of time pressure (many are
         | turn-based, or real-time but with no serious deadlines), and
         | most importantly _aren 't multiplayer_.
        
         | tmtvl wrote:
         | A cafe sim? Something like VA-11 Hall-A? I personally haven't
         | played that, but I have heard good things.
        
       | sudden_dystopia wrote:
       | Obviously because it's an innate part of our being. It has been
       | with us for thousands of years. If we mostly stopped eating food
       | because of some sort of breakthrough supplementation, we would
       | likely have a food simulator.
        
         | jackcosgrove wrote:
         | Can't wait for the persistence hunting sim to come out.
        
           | harpiaharpyja wrote:
           | There are a few of those already, the "Survival Game" genre
        
       | mistrial9 wrote:
       | Why are so few of the many capable people, able to farm?
        
         | hristov wrote:
         | It is not about ability, it is about opportunity. As automation
         | and chemistry overtakes farming there is smaller and smaller
         | demand for people.
        
         | shagie wrote:
         | Starting up a farm (even a hobby farm) is an enormous capital
         | investment.
         | 
         | https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/farm-loan-pro...
         | and https://www.farmers.gov/loans
         | 
         | > Farm Ownership Loans can be used to purchase or expand a farm
         | or ranch. This loan can help with paying closing costs,
         | constructing or improving buildings on the farm, or to help
         | conserve and protect soil and water resources.
         | 
         | > USDA's Farm Service Agency offers up to $600,000 for eligible
         | borrowers through Farm Ownership Loans.
         | 
         | > Farm Operating Loans can be used to purchase livestock, seed
         | and equipment. It can also cover farm operating costs and
         | family living expenses while a farm gets up and running.
         | 
         | > USDA's Farm Service Agency offers up to $400,000 for eligible
         | borrowers through Farm Operating Loans.
         | 
         | Aside from the "grow things" there is an enormous amount of
         | business sense and domain knowledge (what to grow when, how to
         | fix that thing now, does this other thing need fixing?) that is
         | needed to accompany it.
        
           | HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
           | Technically yes, but you can do it on the small (for a hobby
           | farm anyway). You could start a small commercial farm, but
           | you'd basically have bought yourself a sub-minimum wage job.
           | 
           | I live on a horse farm and when we bought the property it
           | didn't really cost that much more than a nice house in the
           | suburbs. My 10 acres and a large new house cost far less than
           | a lot of small houses on tiny lots in places like Seattle or
           | SF. If we had wanted to be farther out (I'm about a 50 minute
           | commute to Minneapolis), we could have gotten more land for
           | even less.
           | 
           | The major adjustments are (a) it's very difficult to take a
           | vacation, (b) the amount of income that goes towards taking
           | care of animals and (c) the work never ends (see [a] above).
           | Besides that, it's all peachy :-)
        
         | rybosworld wrote:
         | It's extremely hard to compete with the major farming
         | conglomerates for one thing.
        
           | eppp wrote:
           | You could easily raise goats without competing. They dont
           | take up much room and there is a market for them. You just
           | won't make much money. Like farming in general.
        
             | shagie wrote:
             | http://www.goatops.com
             | 
             | The issue is scaling. In order to make enough to live off
             | of the income generated by the goats, you need a dozen
             | goats, which themselves need food, shelter, and medical
             | care. And for dairy goats, you also need the equipment for
             | milking.
        
               | HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
               | A dozen goats is not a lot. Shelter you can build
               | yourself and you just need enough so they have an escape
               | from the sun & snow. Farmers do most of the medical care
               | themselves except for the rare instances where you need
               | to call the vet, e.g., we just had to put a horse down a
               | couple of weeks ago.
               | 
               | Food is the most important one because it's an non-stop
               | expense, but it's not unmanageable since it scales
               | directly with the number of animals.
        
               | shagie wrote:
               | That roughly agrees with my back of the envelope math. A
               | dozen dairy goats should be able to provide about
               | $80k/year and it doesn't _seem_ like they 'd need too
               | much room (my parents house in the country has enough
               | land out back to do this and the neighbors are far enough
               | away to not complain about goats... and, well, the
               | neighbors have cows and so aren't likely to complain in
               | any case - this isn't an option for someone living in the
               | suburbs though).
               | 
               | Still, animal husbandry isn't something for me. It's not
               | the animals, but rather the business side of it that is
               | at issue.
               | 
               | http://www.cs.uni.edu/%7Ewallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2
               | 018... / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26209541
               | (and my commentary on it
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26215448 )
        
         | odrekf wrote:
         | A lot of the knowledge required to farm has been lost with big
         | Ag. Try finding someone who actually knows how to do the job's
         | definition. Things like harvesting seeds... Farmers just buy
         | them from the store, and then complain about how farming is
         | getting so expensive. They have become consumers/slaves, with
         | only big Ag, big Oil, and big Pharma as the winners (at the
         | expense of everyone's health and everyone's future).
        
           | loufe wrote:
           | The phrasing of this places blame on farmers for making a
           | poor choice. Unfortunately to keep up in the market farmers
           | needed to increase yields to remain competitive with their
           | neighbours who embarked with this kind of thing first. It's
           | great to have principals, but it might also bankrupt you.
        
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