[HN Gopher] Sridhar Vembu built Zoho by questioning the conventi...
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       Sridhar Vembu built Zoho by questioning the conventional wisdom
        
       Author : sokradhar
       Score  : 104 points
       Date   : 2022-10-02 08:24 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (foundingfuel.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (foundingfuel.com)
        
       | gsatic wrote:
       | Given the very poor quality/growing cost of Engineering Colleges
       | in India, his Zoho Schools(zohoschools.com) concept of
       | paying/training high school students for IT jobs, is looking way
       | ahead of the curve.
        
       | TruthWillHurt wrote:
       | After building a business with Zoho functions, blueprints and if-
       | this-than-that flow -
       | 
       | I can tell you conventional wisdom missing in Zoho like version-
       | control and testing is very much needed.
        
         | csomar wrote:
         | I use Zoho and while it sucks, pretty much every other
         | alternative sucks to the same degree (or more) than Zoho. (That
         | is if you are looking for the full range of functionalities
         | that Zoho offers).
         | 
         | It seems to be an industry-wise thing and I wonder if it's time
         | for disruption.
        
           | tluyben2 wrote:
           | But disruption in this space is not easy; these are massive
           | and complex products; they look pretty trivial from the
           | outside until you use them; there are 1000s of small features
           | you need to have and support in all the workflows and api
           | tools. I had to integrate the Freshworks/sales api a few
           | weeks ago for instance, and that looks like a trivial thing
           | to copy, until you start really looking into all it does
           | under the hood.
           | 
           | It is ready for disruption but to do so, I think it would
           | need a holistic base that is consistent with respect to and
           | between programming language/implementation, infrastructure,
           | api and gui tooling. Now these are mostly manually adapted
           | between each other when stuff gets added and the end result
           | is a lot of leaky abstractions, instability, issues scaling,
           | bugs and inflated infra costs.
        
             | doix wrote:
             | Feels like the disruption could be identifying a subset of
             | the 1000s of features used that a cover a large enough part
             | of the market and solely focusing on that.
             | 
             | Instead of 1000s of features, have 40 good features. Limits
             | how many customers you can get, but should lower
             | development costs as well. There's probably a sweet spot
             | that works.
        
               | tomcam wrote:
               | > identifying a subset of the 1000s of features used that
               | a cover a large enough part of the market
               | 
               | Deceptively hard. The only way to make this happen is
               | using telemetry, and users don't like that,
               | understandably. My belief is that Excel and Word are so
               | successful because EVERYONE uses a different subset of
               | those thousands of features. A one-lawyer office will
               | differ from a dozen-person firm, a big general contractor
               | will use different features from a small one, etc.
               | 
               | You can't survey users about those features either. Users
               | don't know what your surveys mean half the time. They
               | will answer according to how they think you want them to
               | answer instead of what they really do. Or they will be
               | satisfied but name features they would never use because
               | they heard about them at a conference once. They use
               | different terminology from you, so signal gets lost
               | either way. Ad nauseam.
        
               | jimnotgym wrote:
               | Well, rather than telemetry, I suppose excellent domain
               | knowledge may help? Experience in a particular field
               | might help you choose a particular workflow that could
               | work for a lot of users.
        
       | Markoff wrote:
       | > When he returned to India from the Silicon Valley in 2019, he
       | didn't settle down in Chennai, the headquarters of Zoho, but in a
       | village called Mathalamparai, 650 kilometres away in Tenkasi
       | district in Tamil Nadu.
       | 
       | >The very idea of a billionaire moving to a village that's hardly
       | known and hard to pronounce, and images of him pedalling a
       | bicycle around paddy fields, driving an electric auto, or
       | relaxing in a thinnai (shaded verandah) wearing a half-sleeved
       | shirt and a white dhoti evoked curiosity.
       | 
       | Must been written by American, as European I find the village
       | name very easy to pronounce. Same with finding exotic riding a
       | bicycle.
        
         | sigstoat wrote:
         | > Same with finding exotic riding a bicycle.
         | 
         | how many european billionaires ride a bicycle as a form of
         | transport rather than exercise?
        
         | Kye wrote:
         | >> _" Must been written by American, as European I find the
         | village name very easy to pronounce. Same with finding exotic
         | riding a bicycle."_
         | 
         | I'm going to go out on a limb and say a guy named N S Ramnath
         | who lives in Bangalore (Twitter bio) is probably not American.
         | 
         | edit to add: As a European, you might be making faulty
         | assumptions about the pronunciation, while he's aware of
         | numerous pitfalls that vex people who don't know the language.
         | As an American, I see this a lot from Europeans who try to
         | pronounce place names from indigenous languages that we take
         | for granted. I've heard some hilarious verbal renderings of
         | Okefenokee, for example.
        
           | BrandoElFollito wrote:
           | You can go for a simpler case such as the city of Tucson.
           | 
           | I pronounced it "takson", and my American friend had a laugh.
           | He said it is obviously "tiuzon"
        
           | Cockbrand wrote:
           | Non-English native European here - now I'm curious, what's
           | the correct pronunciation of Okefenokee? I found a video [1]
           | which pretty much matches how I'd expect it to be pronounced
           | 
           | [1] https://youtu.be/TMzoTPWBQ2Y
        
             | jraines wrote:
             | Haven't watched the video but i live near that swamp and we
             | call it "OH-key-fen-OH-key"
             | 
             | Not sure how the native way to say it was, but a lot of
             | natural features in South Georgia were taken, nominatively
             | & literally, from the Muskogee people ("Creek Indians")
        
         | jogjayr wrote:
         | > I find the village name very easy to pronounce
         | 
         | I'm Indian, though not a Tamil-speaker, and I couldn't tell you
         | with 100% certainty the correct pronunciation of that village
         | name. At least not when written in the English/Latin alphabet.
         | I can think of 2 different pronunciations for at least 4 of the
         | syllables in it.
        
       | nuancebydefault wrote:
       | On a tangent, my native language is not English and I very often
       | find pieces written in 'Indian English' extremely hard to read.
       | It gives the opposite feeling of reading a novel, NOT because it
       | would be incorrect English, but because it seems to be stuffed
       | with unnecessarily complicated constructs. Like double negations,
       | long sentences interleaved with short ones, choice of nouns and
       | verbs that are not the most common, while a common alternative
       | exists, and so on. Does anybody share this feeling?
        
         | kesava wrote:
         | I am an Indian, and I share this feeling. We have some very
         | good writers and lots of mediocre ones, not to comment about
         | this particular post, which i have not read. Anyway, Indian
         | schooling does not focus on writing as a skill, as much as they
         | do on math and science.
        
           | npinterview wrote:
           | Being proficient in English was seen as being among the elite
           | in the colonial era.
           | 
           | This results in a premium being placed on complicated and
           | convoluted phrases. Like in legal documents. This seems to be
           | prevalent in the former British colonies in Africa too.
        
           | nuancebydefault wrote:
           | This actually makes sense, grammatically/mathematically
           | correct does not necessarily mean readable. If Indian
           | schooling does not have it in focus, the result is as
           | expected.
        
       | keeptrying wrote:
       | 50% net profit Margins - amazing.
       | 
       | Can confidently say theres no business in the US at that scale
       | ($600M+ revenue) with those margins. Ridiculous.
       | 
       | There doesn't seem to be much literature in estimating gross
       | profit margin.
        
         | mlboss wrote:
         | Receipe: hire in India sell in US/Europe
        
       | sokradhar wrote:
       | Sridhar Vembu built Zoho by questioning the conventional wisdom.
       | For the longest time, no one took much notice. But now people are
       | curious about what makes him--and Zoho--tick
        
       | viraptor wrote:
       | I really like the companies that don't take too much vc money and
       | don't try to chase that exponential growth when there's just not
       | enough market left unless you start doing questionable things.
       | I'm a happy zoho mail/invoice/desk user (still bitter about docs
       | going away though) and things have been mostly pleasantly boring.
       | I think I started paying them before I reached any plan threshold
       | just because I appreciated the service and being treated well.
        
         | frereubu wrote:
         | I've been curious about Zoho for a while, so I'm interested
         | when you say "docs going away", because it looks like they have
         | this: https://www.zoho.com/workdrive/ Is that not what you
         | mean? I'd like something to entirely replace Google, including
         | Docs - what was your experience?
        
           | lewisjoe wrote:
           | Workdrive comes with support for a Google Docs alternative
           | (with full parity and even more features) -
           | https://writer.zoho.com
           | 
           | Note: I'm part of the team that makes Writer. Please feel
           | free to reach out to support or write to me (my email is in
           | the profile) in case you need help taking a test drive :)
        
           | viraptor wrote:
           | They had a service called Docs which was explicitly about
           | document storage, tagging, revisions. It got folded into
           | WorkDrive a few weeks ago. It's kind of the same features,
           | but not the same idea. I did want the document management
           | system, rather that a dropbox clone.
        
       | srvmshr wrote:
       | I had the fortune of meeting with Mr. Vembu on a social occasion.
       | He was delightfully unassuming & very disciplined man. I wish
       | other SV VCs & technocrats took a leaf out of his playbook &
       | focused on being pioneers instead of trying every single day of
       | creating a Steve-Jobsian aura
        
         | tomcam wrote:
         | I would love to hear how you determined on a single occasion
         | that he is disciplined. Not trying to contradict you! I'm
         | fascinated how that would become clear in such a short time.
        
           | srvmshr wrote:
           | Very punctual on time, polite in his preference that he
           | expressed (food, servings etc), avoided business questions,
           | kept his interactions to the point. He came across as someone
           | very principled about how he went about his life.
        
       | z9znz wrote:
       | As a business email hosting customer, I have been very happy with
       | Zoho for years. And on the rare occasion that I needed customer
       | support, the experience has been very pleasant in comparison to
       | almost every other tech company I depend on. Not only that, the
       | pricing is very reasonable.
       | 
       | It's funny that in the tech world, providing a reliable service
       | at a reasonable price for two decades (and with actual human
       | customer service) is contrarian. I realize that's not the point
       | of the article, but it does apply.
        
         | nxmnxm99 wrote:
         | I have realized that you can take just about any SaaS company,
         | no matter how saturated, and build a great product and
         | overdeliver on customer service and succeed.
         | 
         | Hard to do obviously but you don't need to strike gold on some
         | new ideas or category.
        
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       (page generated 2022-10-02 23:01 UTC)