[HN Gopher] 230K Chinese "persuaded to return" from abroad to es...
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230K Chinese "persuaded to return" from abroad to establish
Extraterritoriality
Author : walterbell
Score : 51 points
Date : 2022-10-01 21:31 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (safeguarddefenders.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (safeguarddefenders.com)
| walterbell wrote:
| Non-China cities with Chinese police stations include:
|
| _> Amsterdam, Athens, Belgrade, Buenos Aires, Barcelona,
| Budapest, Dublin, Florence, Frankfurt, Glasgow, Lisbon, London,
| Madeira, Madrid, Milan, New York City, Paris, Porto, Prague,
| Quito, Rio de Janeiro, Rome, Sao Paulo, Slovakia, Stockholm,
| Rotterdam, Toronto, Tokyo, Valencia, Vina del Mar, Vienna._
|
| https://jamestown.org/program/future-global-policeman-the-gr...
|
| _> some countries where fugitives may have fled have either
| avoided signing extradition agreements with the PRC or have
| rescinded them following the introduction of the National
| Security Law to Hong Kong in 2020. These include Australia,
| Canada, Germany, Finland, Ireland, the Netherlands, the UK, and
| the United States.
|
| > ..PRC authorities ..use alternative means to apprehend
| fugitives. "Persuasion" has become a common tactic, which human
| rights groups have called "involuntary returns." Such returns are
| achieved by threats against family members in the PRC, directly
| approaching and intimidating the fugitive overseas, or outright
| kidnapping ..Involuntary returns ..comprise a mix of genuine
| criminal fugitives, officials who have fallen out of favor with
| the CCP leadership, and others pursued for their religious or
| political beliefs._
|
| Earlier thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33049729
| Amfy wrote:
| I am surprised they are even allowed to "operate" in all these
| cities... especially the USA/Europe.
| chiph wrote:
| National law enforcement agencies often have reciprocity with
| foreign countries. For example, the FBI has offices in many
| countries to facilitate things like investigations and
| extraditions. The common name is "Legat" and they operate in
| cooperation with and at the pleasure of the host country.
|
| https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/international-offices
|
| It sounds like the Chinese police are operating like they're
| in their home country. Which they are not. Sooner or later,
| their activities are going to get them PNG'd (made Persona
| Non Grata) and they'll be asked to leave.
| curiousgal wrote:
| Saudi Arabia funded 9/11, Israel shot an American citizen,
| the U.S. continues to operate as usual with those countries.
|
| My point is that, politics is never about the people/victims.
| rat9988 wrote:
| > Saudi Arabia funded 9/11
|
| Well, some conspiracy theories are considered facts now.
| Amfy wrote:
| Also, one could imagine, these "Persuasion" tactics, might be
| more successful than, the Western approach of where extradition
| treaties exist. Putting social (family?) pressure on someone
| probably more likely leads to a person giving in, than just
| being exposed to legal pressure that possibly can't reach them.
| walterbell wrote:
| Westphalian nation states were established to supercede
| private armies of mercenaries. If societies now accept extra-
| legal methods of influence, as vividly illustrated on TV
| shows like _The Sopranos_ , there will be many organized non-
| state actors lining up to join the party.
|
| If citizens want a new legal category for extra-territorial
| operations, beyond extradition, this can be negotiated in a
| formal international treaty.
| im3w1l wrote:
| What would "not-accepting" these methods of influence even
| look like?
| threeseed wrote:
| Note that in Australia I know first hand of Chinese university
| students having their families back home threatened due to them
| participating in protests.
|
| I have no doubt that this is not just about criminal activity
| but any activity that the PRC does not approve of.
| netsharc wrote:
| Makes me think of this[1].
|
| I guess a bit like in the spy movies where American spies were
| free to roam everywhere, the superpower status (i.e. money and
| market access) of China means they get to swing their police
| truncheon around and most countries just stay quiet about it.
|
| And they were even watching Xinjiang activists outside of China
| (Source [2]):
|
| > [...] one of the officers shoved a photo under my nose. It was
| my daughter Gulhumar. She was posing in front of the Place du
| Trocadero in Paris, bundled up in her black coat, the one I'd
| given her. In the photo, she was smiling, a miniature East
| Turkestan flag in her hand, a flag the Chinese government had
| banned. To Uighurs, that flag symbolises the region's
| independence movement. The occasion was one of the demonstrations
| organised by the French branch of the World Uighur Congress,
| which represents Uighurs in exile and speaks out against Chinese
| repression in Xinjiang.
|
| The drily-written post only talks about telecommunications fraud.
| Is that a big deal in China, are they doing something like
| Nigerian 419 scams? I suppose they'd be targeting mostly Chinese
| citizens, using e.g. WeChat, although that's probably a bad idea
| because how much do you want to bet WeChat can report home the
| user's GPS coordinates or even just their IP would be enough for
| country geo-locating.
|
| [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/09/secret-deal-
| re... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/12/uighur-
| xinjian...
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(page generated 2022-10-01 23:00 UTC)