[HN Gopher] Paris Will Become '100% Cyclable'
___________________________________________________________________
Paris Will Become '100% Cyclable'
Author : tosh
Score : 254 points
Date : 2022-10-01 10:39 UTC (12 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bloomberg.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bloomberg.com)
| tiku wrote:
| Just drove to Paris by car, the homeless population is getting
| big. Lots of tents/ghetto huts next to the roads through Paris. I
| hope they fix that as well.
| jscipione wrote:
| Is Paris safe enough to cycle in? I'd rather drive so that I
| might survive the journey.
| zahma wrote:
| Yes it is.
| retinaros wrote:
| it isnt safe. you need to be careful all the time of many
| things. many people have serious injuries on bikes in paris. if
| you know driving rules, have experience riding a bike and a
| helmet then it becomes less dangerous but to give you an
| example when u bicycle on a straight line you will be allow to
| continue and the drivers will be allowed to turn. 50% of the
| drivers dont understand that you can go straight will they can
| make a right turn. it is really dangerous and you always need
| to be careful of cars turning on you. people who tell u
| otherwise are just drinking their koo. aid or working for
| lobbies
| noelwelsh wrote:
| Yes, Paris is quite easy to cycle around. This article, though
| mostly about plans for new cycling infrastructure, also
| mentions cycling has increased in Paris in recent years along
| with the existing infrastructure, some of which is temporary
| bike lanes added during the pandemic:
| https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-22/how-paris...
| BlargMcLarg wrote:
| Needs more than just infrastructure to be safe for cycling.
| E.g. preventing harassment and theft of bicycles, or low
| crime rates.
| noelwelsh wrote:
| If you read the article you would see it claims there are
| almost 1 million bike journeys per day in Paris. Paris only
| has a population of about 2 million. Counting the
| surrounding area brings that up 12 million, but however you
| cut it that statistic means a significant portion of
| Parisians are cycling and clearly they feel safe enough to
| do so.
| pookah wrote:
| I'm guessing by safe he means crime. And Paris has always had
| crime and I wouldn't want to be one of those tour-de-france
| dudes cycling through the north-east. LOL
| pyb wrote:
| As a local, I still wouldn't recommened cycling here to
| inexperienced tourists.
| agumonkey wrote:
| And this is making a lot of people angry, alas.
| jeffbee wrote:
| Drivers should be thrilled every time they see someone on a
| bicycle.
| amelius wrote:
| Most car drivers in big cities are in an angry state of mind to
| begin with.
| cm2187 wrote:
| Mostly it makes it impossible to drive in Paris. When I come to
| Paris from the UK, I now try to fly because gare du nord is
| surrounded by a gigantic moat of traffic jams. Not sure it is a
| win for the environment.
| netsharc wrote:
| Your statement really confuses me. You say Gare Du Nord
| because presumably you've been taking the Eurostar. Do you
| then take a rental car either way? (from GdN or from the
| airport). Seems like a nitpick to excuse your behaviour: that
| the traffic is bad in one specific area of Paris (as if it's
| bad only around there), so it means you'd have to take the
| plane...
| cm2187 wrote:
| uber/taxi. Metro doesn't really work for the local leg
| beside being filthy and with very long connections
| (chatelet) + luggage.
| netsharc wrote:
| Well, having a few more pieces of the incomplete puzzle,
| my thought would be, maybe you can take the metro 1 or 2
| stations to a less jammed area and then Uber from there.
| But well, maybe that's out of the question if you can't
| deal with the "filthy" conditions.
| antihero wrote:
| It really isn't that bad unless you're a total snob.
| ohbtvz wrote:
| As if there weren't traffic jams to/from the airport? You're
| in Paris, which has extensive public transport. Just use
| that!
| Scoundreller wrote:
| And in the roads in the airport.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| why does anyone need to drive in paris
| pookah wrote:
| During the crazy pandemic situation I'd much rather be
| driving in my own car than chilaxing on a bus with forty
| random people. Driving has it's place.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| indeed, public transportation is for poor people
| amrocha wrote:
| No it doesn't, feel free to bike if you don't want to
| ride the subway
| nickserv wrote:
| ... and why would you want to?
| abainbridge wrote:
| Commercial traffic needs to drive - trucks and vans need
| cannot easily be replaced with public transport. I live on
| a busy road in Cambridge UK. At rush hour the traffic is
| about 50% commercial. I don't know what the proportion is
| in Paris, but my expectation is that the roads would still
| have lots of motor vehicle traffic even once you convert
| everything that can be to bike/public transport.
| antihero wrote:
| I would suggest that if people only used motor vehicles
| when absolutely necessary the roads would be blissful.
| SECProto wrote:
| > At rush hour the traffic is about 50% commercial.
|
| Note that the removal of the other 50% of traffic would
| easily shift the road from a traffic jam (Level of
| Service E or F) to a free-flowing road (LOS C). Even if
| only a fraction of the overall traffic is removed,
| traffic would easily get down to LOS D.
|
| This is exactly why encouraging other modes of
| transportation (cycling, walking, bus, train, etc)
| actually causes big improvements for all road users.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| Why does commercial traffic drive during rush hour
| abainbridge wrote:
| Good question. I'm thinking of morning rush hour because
| that I did a traffic survey then. I noticed a lot of
| building trades vehicles. All the trades people seem to
| want to be at their site for the day by 8.30am. I guess
| that is so they can do a full day's work before it gets
| dark (which is at 3.30pm in winter). There is also a lot
| of food suppliers delivering in time for catering teams
| to make lunch in schools, offices, cafes etc.
|
| I probably shouldn't have called it rush hour. The
| traffic is busy from 7am until 7pm on weekdays.
| bluecalm wrote:
| Traffic jams are caused by cars. Just look what's in front of
| you 99% of the time. Cars make it
| dangerous/inconvenient/slower to use more reasonable (which
| means smaller) means of transportation. It's high time we
| stop prioritizing them and giving them 90% of city space.
| Schroedingersat wrote:
| If there are literally enough people in an area that you
| physically cannot fit a car with safe following distance for
| everyone there then maybe forcing them all into cars isn't
| the best way to solve congestion?
| antihero wrote:
| Unlucky, perhaps don't add to it? :)
| andylynch wrote:
| Maybe take a local train onward from one of the other forty
| platforms? By several counts that is the busiest railway
| station in the world outside of Japan so of course it's a
| busy area.
|
| I wouldn't seriously consider driving to St Pancras either
| barring a taxi for an early trip.
| antihero wrote:
| Good, they can go be angry in the suburbs or motorways.
| socialismisok wrote:
| This is the year I finally got an e-bike (a tern hsd). I
| basically never want to drive my car now. I just did a run to the
| nursery to pick up 4 cubic feet of potting soil on my bike, and
| it's incredible to be able to use both the roads and the paths to
| get there.
|
| As a bonus, cyclists don't have to stop at stop signs in Seattle,
| so you can maintain 20 miles an hour easily.
|
| All with none of the feeling of isolation and alienation that a
| car brings.
|
| I strongly encourage folks to go do a test ride on an electric
| bike. Absolute game changer.
| 7e wrote:
| Seattle cyclists don't have to stop at stop signs, but they do
| need to yield. Unfortunately the new law didn't change
| anything: cyclists still refuse to yield, even to pedestrians,
| and in general act like entitled assholes. Even the lazy ones
| on ebikes!
| oangemangut wrote:
| Seattle I find is a few decades away from really getting
| things right. We're in North Seattle and the EW routes are
| sorely lacking. I end up being on a couple arterials that are
| likely not safe for me. My spouse, however, doesn't feel safe
| on those roads and so won't do the EW trips on the bike.
| Seattle drivers are getting better at giving space and
| respecting cyclists. On 8th NW I used to get close passes
| multiple times per trip, now I have them every other trip.
| socialismisok wrote:
| Yeah, I'm also in North Seattle, there's a few routes I can
| use with some key crossings and a lot of use of stay
| healthy streets.
| anonporridge wrote:
| I'm inclined to suggest that cyclists have the right to be
| entitled assholes (with the exception of not yielding to
| pedestrians).
|
| On the grand scale of things, cyclists, even the _lazy_
| e-cyclists, are actually doing their part to contribute to a
| climate change solution, unlike the extraordinarily lazy and
| entitled drivers who refuse to modify their lifestyles to
| actually do something real to reduce their carbon impact.
|
| Even EVs pale in comparison to e-bikes for the actual
| contribution they make to reducing carbon emissions
| (especially since half of a car's lifetime emissions comes
| from its production).
|
| There's also some evidence that when you account for the
| energy cost of calories from food and its associate carbon
| emissions that ebikes are actually drastically better than
| regular bikes in terms of distance traveled per unit energy
| used. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_efficiency_in_tran
| sport.... So your degrading language of lazy ebike riders
| might be completely misaligned with reality. And that's not
| even considering the possibility that ebikes enable
| drastically more biking and less driving since they make the
| choice to bike rather than drive much more palatable for more
| people and situations. e.g. I can do a full Costco run on my
| ebike and cart home 50lbs of product no problem. If I only
| had a regular bike, I'd be drastically more likely to make
| that shopping trip in a car.
|
| Drivers are the assholes in city life and should entirely
| submit and yield to cyclists while bowing to thank them for
| their service for our collective environment. A service
| drivers themselves are too weak or selfish to participate in.
| socialismisok wrote:
| The fact that electric bikes might be more energy efficient
| than regular bikes is wild, but makes sense. And I've been
| able to replace probably 60% of my car trips with bike
| trips so far, and I'm still a fairly novice biker.
|
| It's amazing how much even a small cargo bike can haul.
| anonporridge wrote:
| What's even more wild is that even regular cycling is
| double the energy efficient as walking. And ebikes are 5x
| more energy efficient than walking.
| kevincox wrote:
| In my mind yielding should be based on the relative
| efficiency of the transportation. Mass public transit
| should have priority, then bikes, then pedestrians. Cars
| should obviously be last. Of course this shouldn't be all
| the time. Even when this is the system in general people
| should follow rules and take their turn to keep everyone
| safe.
| jraph wrote:
| I would prefer pedestrians > cyclists > tramways > bus >
| cars.
|
| - Pedestrians are the most vulnerable and should be
| protected. Also most people are supposedly regularly
| pedestrians so it seems it would benefit everyone to have
| them prioritized. They also don't usually form
| uninterrupted flows like bikes or cars can.
|
| - Then, bikes are very efficient and quite vulnerable.
|
| - Then, I really want public transport to be as smooth as
| possible and cars should be discouraged (if not forbidden
| except for specific good reasons), especially the ones
| that only have one or two people in them, so tramways and
| bus should always be prioritized.
|
| - Tramways should win against buses, they also don't
| usually form uninterrupted flows and we want them to be
| fast.
|
| I believe a really efficient public transport is very
| important for a working city, and cars are usually the
| only thing forming continuous streams and are, I think,
| the only reason we have traffic and traffic lights.
| vkou wrote:
| As a pedestrian, I've certainly ran into more bikes than cars
| failing to yield to me, but that's because if I'm at all
| uncertain, I don't even _try_ to see if a car will yield to
| me. For two reasons.
|
| 1. When a bike does something stupid and dangerous, I expect
| them to _usually_ not run into me. When a car does something
| stupid and dangerous, collision is a very likely possibility.
|
| 2. The difference in consequences of collision with one
| versus the other is drastic.
| socialismisok wrote:
| Thankfully they are at least better than drivers around here.
| But yes, bikes absolutely need to yield!
| lifeisstillgood wrote:
| I wonder how you measure that? I have a one sentence goal that I
| think is more measurable - "Every child should be able to cycle
| to school on car-free paths"
|
| That sets a different tone and yet achieves very similar goals.
| Someone wrote:
| > "Every child should be able to cycle to school on car-free
| paths"
|
| That implies every house should be connected to a car-free
| path. I don't see that as feasible. I would aim for having all
| houses in 30km/hour zones and requiring any crossings of
| higher-speed car lanes to be on segregated cycle paths. That's
| doable.
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| In Paris I suspect that every child can walk to school.
|
| It is a very dense city with primary schools in every
| neighbourhood. I am sure most children already walk to school.
| lifeisstillgood wrote:
| But car free paths is a deep standard to meet. Pavements
| (sidewalks) don't quite make it - you still cross roads.
| Although pretty safely.
|
| A cycle path that is car free is much harder - especially as
| you get into the elongated roadways of suburbia and car
| centric towns.
|
| There is a venn diagram with the Strong Towns argument of
| density and taxable value, the car-agnostic approach of
| Barcelona or Tokyo and i think the thin sliver of overlap
| with the modern world looks like car-free paths. A mobility
| network that is local and human powered and will engender
| path-side amenities and opportunities to spring up.
|
| Basically, just keeping the current town planning approach,
| with long car centric roads and amenities and just slapping a
| cycle path in is not transformative
| m348e912 wrote:
| Hijacking this thread to comment that Atlanta (while hot and
| humid during the summer months) is ripe for extreme bike-ablity.
| It would involve additional expansion of the beltline bike paths,
| reclaiming roads for dedicated (and protected) bike lines.
| Encouraging commuters from the suburbs to park near the perimeter
| and bike/ebike the last several miles to work.
| Mountain_Skies wrote:
| Atlanta has a dismal history for their bike infrastructure
| projects that betrays an deep-seated disinterest in them being
| anything other than window dressing and the ability to check a
| box on some urbanist dream list. Bike tracks are almost
| instantly taken over by taxis and the city does nothing about
| it. If not taxis, then the city will designate them as loading
| areas for "special events" where special is a weekly occurrence
| and thus the bike tracks or lanes can't be relied on to be
| available without contacting city hall first to find out their
| daily status. Even the Beltline suffers greatly from too many
| uses being crammed into too little space, making it quite often
| poor quality for all users.
|
| If Atlanta was serious, they'd convert Peachtree (THE Peachtree
| Street) through downtown and Midtown into a two lane street,
| remove as many curb cuts as possible (not 100% achievable but
| probably 90%), and force turns every couple of blocks to ensure
| there is no through traffic. Peachtree Street is shady and
| relatively flat, while the wide, highspeed mostly one-way
| streets that run parallel to it where the bike lanes have been
| placed are hilly and mostly unshaded. Plus the bike lanes are
| filled with debris and storm grates. Push most vehicular
| traffic off Peachtree Street onto those streets instead.
|
| The space gained by making cars and trucks the minority users
| of Peachtree could be used for multiple bike lanes, pedestrian
| paths, small linear parks, and perhaps even a low speed lane
| for those electric scooters that are so popular.
| m348e912 wrote:
| Great ideas. Yes the bike lanes HAVE to be segregated from
| vehicles because it's clear that Atlanta motorists have
| little regard for bike lanes and cyclists. I like the idea of
| dedicated streets. Bottom line is it has to be more
| convenient to bike downtown than to drive downtown.
| shtopointo wrote:
| Such good news!
|
| The more I think about it, the more I realize cities don't need
| cars.
|
| (ok, maybe if you have a city like LA or Houston that is so
| sprawled out that anything other than cars is impractical... but
| even with bikes, those cities would create pockets every 5-10
| miles... anyway onto my larger point)
|
| At 10mph, you can cover a lot of ground in a city, get your
| exercise, pay less for car insurance / upkeep / upfront cost and
| reduce pollution. It's a win-win-win.
|
| Add electric bikes into the mix and you are set to cover maybe 20
| miles without breaking a sweat.
|
| Having lived in Holland before, it's such a treat to be able to
| bike anywhere. And keep in mind that Holland sucks for biking
| because it rains all the time (Paris might as well, still oceanic
| climate). Anything with 2,000+ hours of sunshine per year is in
| an ideal spot for bikes, but that is A LOT of cities in the
| world.
|
| Anyway, very much hoping that this will lead to more cities
| following suit.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| But when will Paris become '100% kayakable'?
|
| The corporatization and hijacking of the Seine by commercial
| ships must end!
| joachim4 wrote:
| They plan to make the water clear enough to swim in it by 2030,
| so it might also be kayakable.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| I thought it was in time for the Olympics next year, but we
| both know neither will happen :)
| croisillon wrote:
| (2021)
| buggythebug wrote:
| Bye bye driving around without blowing your brains out from
| frustration
| [deleted]
| throw101010 wrote:
| In Paris? Where exactly are you driving without frustration
| right now? You must be a pretty patient person if the current
| traffic/traffic jams aren't already frustrating you.
| buggythebug wrote:
| I'm saying it will get worse.
| bambax wrote:
| Yeah, that's the point. The less drivers, the better. It
| would be unpopular (and perhaps illegal?) to forbid cars,
| but they can sure make it incredibly unpleasant to drive,
| so that people simply give up. I support this.
| howinteresting wrote:
| I love bikes but also have a car which is an absolute
| necessity. Simple example: picking up a friend or partner
| from a medical appointment where they're in a state that
| would be unsafe for them to ride public transit or even a
| rideshare. They could pay through the nose for a
| specialized medical rideshare, or I could just pick them
| up in my car.
| bluecalm wrote:
| Yeah but it's already very bad and will be worse. It's just
| cars are too big and they will clog whatever space is
| designated to them sooner rather than later.
| buggythebug wrote:
| That's exactly what I'm saying
| viraptor wrote:
| That sounds great. They were already very close to that in the
| centre / touristy areas 5 years ago. I could take a bike path
| pretty much everywhere I wanted, from the accommodation, all the
| 20+min ride to the interesting spots.
|
| But I'm surprised that the article doesn't mention scooters at
| all (correction - 1 mention in passing). I feel like the bike to
| e-scooter ratio was around 3:1. They use the same infrastructure
| and also have significant numbers.
| SECProto wrote:
| It's interesting to watch. I was in Paris 10 years ago and it
| felt very car-centric/bike-hostile. Hopefully I'll get back in
| the next 5 and see how much it has changed.
| robrenaud wrote:
| I loved the contraflow bike lanes in Paris[1]. In Paris, as far
| as I could tell, every street, including very narrow streets that
| basically only fit a single car, are still two way for bikes. It
| was confusing at first since I didn't expect to be allowed to
| travel against car traffic. It sounds dangerous, but it worked
| well. Even when a very wide garbage truck took the street as I
| was biking towards it, I just pulled over and stopped on the side
| walk so it could pass.
|
| As someone who bikes a lot in Manhattan and Brooklyn, it really
| felt like bikes were much a first class citizen in Paris.
|
| [1] https://nacto.org/publication/urban-bikeway-design-
| guide/bik....
| bombcar wrote:
| Pedestrians should be allowed to walk any which way including
| stairs and other shortcuts.
|
| Bikes should have dedicated lanes that are always two way.
|
| Vehicles should be the most inconvenienced (one way streets,
| one turn direction, etc) as "going around" isn't a major
| problem.
|
| Designing to minimize interaction between the various forms
| helps tremendously-if bikes and pedestrians keep interacting
| negatively it gets harder to get support for more bike
| infrastructure (even though that's usually the solution). Just
| like bollards can keep cars container, steps can help keep
| bikes contained.
| 2-718-281-828 wrote:
| Very common in Germany. I don't like it too much as I'm always
| a bit skeptical whether the car driver noticed the additional
| sign.
|
| https://www.knetfeder.de/fahrrad/bilder/radfahrerfrei.png
| Mordisquitos wrote:
| I love them as an idea. I wish the Barcelona local government
| would understand the simple concept of contraflow bike lanes on
| one-way streets.
|
| Instead they keep building more and more _two-lane_ cycle paths
| on either side of one-way streets, fully segregating bicycle
| traffic from motor traffic. While they surely believe that
| makes it even safer for cyclists, in my opinion it is a
| terrible (and less safe) design for multiple reasons.
|
| Firstly, it continues to encourage the idea that cyclists are
| second-class parts of urban traffic, who _may_ use the streets
| when by the benevolent grace of the Barcelona local authority
| they have been provided with their own mini-street on certain
| grown-up car streets.
|
| Secondly, having to divide the dedicated bicycle space in two,
| one for each direction of traffic, increases the risk of bike
| collisions and makes overtaking slow cyclists more of a hassle.
|
| Thirdly, it often makes cycling from A to B _harder_ than
| driving if your route happens to follow the "standard"
| direction of the one way street and you need to make a turn to
| the side opposite the side where the cycle lane happens to be.
| This forces you to cross the ordinary one-way motor traffic
| lane, which you wish you were using in the first place, with
| the added difficulty that the cars are coming to you from
| behind.
|
| Finally, it really messes up with the crucial factor of
| _predictability_ in road safety. So many dual-lane cycle paths
| on arbitrary sides of one-way streets make each intersection
| have its own personality, and you 'd better hope the drivers
| you'll encounter are locals who know to expect surprise
| bicycles sprouting out in the opposite direction on their
| right-hand side. While one could argue that contraflow lanes
| also mess with predictability they do not, for the simple fact
| that traffic continues to follow the standard logic of
| circulating on the right of the road.
| marcandre wrote:
| Lack of predictability can be a feature, at least according
| to Hans Monderman, famous Dutch traffic engineer. He believed
| drivers become more alert and cautious when there's more
| uncertainty on the road. [1]
|
| From my experience, segregating biking lanes, and having more
| than one so as to allow passing is a definite plus. Bike
| collisions can be scary, but it's cars I'm really afraid of.
|
| FWIW, I cycle all the time, often in Paris, Montreal and
| Barcelona and have strong preferences for doing so in that
| particular order.
|
| [1] https://bigthink.com/the-present/want-less-car-accidents-
| get...
| masklinn wrote:
| > Lack of predictability can be a feature, at least
| according to Hans Monderman, famous Dutch traffic engineer.
| He believed drivers become more alert and cautious when
| there's more uncertainty on the road.
|
| I think lack of certainty and lack of predictability are
| very different concepts, and you want the former but not
| the latter.
|
| Lack of certainty means you don't know what's going to
| happen because you have blind corners or obstacles (e.g.
| trees, planters), this requires paying attention and leads
| to slowdowns because the driver is not confident.
|
| Lack of predictability is its brain-damaged cousin, it's a
| drunk driver or a dump truck with an open gate.
| pxmpxm wrote:
| This seems like a far better idea than the segregated bike
| lanes with stuff in the middle (parking etc), because you can
| actually see any potential intersection contentions from afar.
| I'm still unclear how the former is ever a good idea, unless
| you have traffic signals on every intersection.
| WanderPanda wrote:
| I recently moved to NY and I'm surprised by how bike friendly
| Manhattan and Brooklyn are. More bike friendly than most German
| cities (except e.g. Munster) imo
| pookah wrote:
| Not pedestrians or runners though. Very common for cyclist's
| to blatantly mow through intersections and crosswalks like
| psychopaths. In Manhattan there's a famous local that uses a
| bullhorn to call them assholes. I've nearly gotten clipped by
| bikes multiple times. Americans also hardly ever use bell's
| or announce themselves. And then there's the silent killers
| on the E-Bikes...I think bikes and cyclist paths are good,
| it's just the US hasn't figured out how to integrate these
| things into society so you wind up with anti-social tour-de-
| france cyclists bogarting through children on tricycles and
| the general public. It's not a good situation.
| atdrummond wrote:
| My father and stepmom, after trying to avoid them countless
| times, were wiped out by an e-bike in Manhattan going much
| faster than the car traffic. Both of them are now
| frightened to walk in their neighborhood after having so
| many close calls. I thought they were being a bit
| hypersensitive given the accident but after visiting this
| week it's unlike anything I've seen in any other "bike
| friendly" jurisdiction.
| NegativeLatency wrote:
| I'm not going to defend irresponsible bikers but it's
| important to consider that if it was a car they'd
| potentially be dead.
| splistud wrote:
| netsharc wrote:
| Well my guess is, if it was a car, the driver probably
| wouldn't be a total wanker speeding, sometimes on the
| sidewalk, inches away from pedestrians. It seems the main
| issue is located between the saddle and the handlebars.
| atdrummond wrote:
| I 100% agree - my point is that cars are easier to dodge
| in NYC right now with the relative slow speed in their
| neighborhoods. The e-bikes often go well above 30mph and
| pay no heed to lights or other traffic signals. I was
| honestly shocked after having biked myself on multiple
| continents and having seen much better bike etiquette
| pretty much everywhere else.
| sergers wrote:
| I think it has to do with general lawless enforcement
| increase in NYC, that among other things, leads to people
| just blatantly doing whatever they want.
|
| I haven't seen roaming mobs of cyclists in other city
| like NYC, lane splitting through traffic and blocking
| traffic
| onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
| I don't understand why bike lanes on one-way street don't go in
| the opposite direction of cars.
|
| It's easier for you to avoid the car and for the car to get
| around you.
| blacksmith_tb wrote:
| My personal experience with riding in 'contraflow' bike lanes
| is they are often very handy, but can get unpleasant where
| they intersect with car (or even bike) traffic that's flowing
| normally. I'd generally rather ride in a protected bike lane
| (with a curb/berm between the car lanes and the bike, or even
| bigger barriers like planters or parked cars).
| cma wrote:
| Sightlines are often tuned only for seeing oncoming traffic
| far enough to turn into it and not for seeing fastish stuff
| going the opposite way.
| josephcsible wrote:
| > I just pulled over and stopped on the side walk so it could
| pass.
|
| I wish cyclists did this even for traffic going the same
| direction as them.
| carlob wrote:
| Note that contraflow lanes are a European directive for all
| places with a speed limit of 30 km/h. I'm Paris they just
| started marking them.
|
| If you are in a street where it's too narrow to safely
| overtake a bike without them climbing on the sidewalk, then
| you probably shouldn't be going much faster than the bike
| anyway...
| avgcorrection wrote:
| What is a European directive? An EU directive?
| BrianHenryIE wrote:
| Have you got a link to the EU directive? I haven't heard of
| that and a quick search didn't bring anything up.
| II2II wrote:
| It is far safer for a motorist coming from behind to
| determine when it is safe to pass. It is also far more
| dangerous for a cyclist to exit then attempt to rejoin the
| flow of traffic. The only time a cyclist should consider
| pulling over for traffic is if it would be otherwise unsafe
| for vehicles to pass.
| analog31 wrote:
| I do this. I've got a mirror on my bike, I know what's coming
| up behind me, and I let cars pass when I can. I also pull
| over when driving on 2-lane roads if there's a string of cars
| behind me.
| LtWorf wrote:
| Most cyclists in non-urban roads I met in italy will just
| cycle in pair and keep 20 cars behind them going at 20km/h
| while chatting with each other.
| amrocha wrote:
| Good. Slow down cars and maybe they'll stop killing
| thousands of people every year.
| Karrot_Kream wrote:
| So where does the yielding logic stop? Do vans need to
| stop for sports cars? Do sports cars need to stop for
| tanks? If you make cycling this cumbersome, nobody will
| cycle. People try their best to yield but it's best
| effort.
| downvotetruth wrote:
| "Motor"cyclists pull the same trick & violate the slower
| traffic keep to the side rule, which seems to make
| "lanes" redundant.
| analog31 wrote:
| Indeed, I don't ride my bike on multi-lane roads if I can
| avoid them, so I'm only talking about roads where my
| choices are riding in the traffic lane or ducking into
| the parking lane. In my locale it's pretty easy to get
| around on neighborhood streets and bike paths, so I'm
| actually rarely sharing the road with a lot of car
| traffic.
| markus92 wrote:
| These are extremely common in The Netherlands, too. Pretty much
| all streets that are one way for cars, are two way for bikes.
| dr_dshiv wrote:
| In the Netherlands, bikes don't care
| gregsadetsky wrote:
| From an outsider's perspective, Paris seems well positioned for
| this. It's a dense city, cars don't feel like first class
| citizens outside of the large boulevards, the Velib [1] bike
| sharing system is well implanted (and that's not even considering
| all of the shared/kick/electrical scooters..!)
|
| Montreal is having a mini cycling renaissance as well. Our mayor
| didn't let the pandemic crisis go to waste and transformed one of
| the city's main streets by adding two semi-protected bike lanes
| [2]. The whole area is stunningly different than what it was
| before. A telling (Canadian newspaper) editorial on the subject:
| "Is the war against bike lanes finally over?" [3]
|
| Finally, I personally just joined a group of volunteers (as a
| tech/developer) that are using DALL-E/AI to generate visions of
| improved streets in the US! If you're curious / want to join
| (fullstack and especially css developers are always needed),
| check out https://transformyour.city/ and the twitter account
| [4]. The goal is to be a "change.org for urban transformation".
| Feel free to email me as well.
|
| Cyclists/urban idealists unite :-)
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A9lib%27
|
| [2] https://montreal.ca/en/articles/rev-express-bike-
| network-466...
|
| [3]
| https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/article-i...
|
| [4] https://twitter.com/betterstreetsai
| AtlasBarfed wrote:
| What's really important about this isn't bicycles in the
| traditional sense, it's infra that can be used with e-bikes,
| e-skateboards, e-mini-scooters, etc.
|
| I think the sweet spot is a 50 mile range single person
| miniscooter (similar to birds, etc), that will be lightweight and
| foldable and charge quick on 110V. You take that to work, fold it
| up, charge it whjile you work, use it for lunch/errands, fold it
| up again, commute home.
|
| The current Birds/etc scooters are juuuust a bit to heavy. I
| think it's well within the next-gen LFP and sodium ion to produce
| usable 50 mile scooter that weight 2/3 to 1/2 of a the scooter
| sharing service designs.
|
| Those should practically be free to any resident of a city in the
| world in terms of tax rebates or a stipend. I really can't think
| of a bigger carbon bang for the buck than a 200$ free credit to
| buy an e-scooter and $1000 for an e-bike+trailer for basic
| groceries errands.
|
| The portable/foldable e-scooter is a very natural integration
| with mass transit and intercity as well, while bikes are a lot
| harder to integrate.
| Matthias247 wrote:
| > I really can't think of a bigger carbon bang for the buck
| than a 200$ free credit to buy an e-scooter and $1000 for an
| e-bike+trailer for basic groceries errands.
|
| Assuming people would use those - totally! The risk is
| unfortunately that people just get them because they are free,
| and in the end are still driving cars for convenience. I guess
| one would need some system where the credit is earned via
| actual usage. You pay for it full price, but for ever ridden km
| you get credit. You already mentioned tax rebates, and those
| might indeed be a good way. However those already exist in
| countries for other kinds of commuting - e.g. if I commute by
| any kind of vehicle in germany I get a 30ct/km tax discount -
| whether it's a car or scooter. Picking a higher number for a
| vehicle which is cheaper to own doesn't really sound logical -
| but maybe just the marketing effect of it would drive adoption.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| I think the future is much shorter range out of the box, but
| you slide a supplemental battery when you need extra range.
|
| (This applies to cars too: would love to have a battery pack
| that slides out for the lawnmower/snowblower/chainsaw and then
| recharges in the car and gives extra miles of range when
| needed).
|
| There are some shared electrified scooters in Taiwan where you
| slide in and out battery packs from something like a vending
| machine.
|
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yGwmPcClWrE
| LeanderK wrote:
| Is it getting done? In germany progress is mixed because some
| cities are way to cautious to introduce bike lanes. They are
| sometimes planned to death, little strips of a few hundred meters
| of bike lane takes years (different proposals, input of
| stakeholders, revision of proposals, detailed planning and then
| implementation) so nothing is getting done. I think there's only
| an noticeable improvement if there's a strong buy-in from the
| government and the ruling party. I think this is due to forces
| working against these transformations. To overcome those tedious
| planning processes the city has to be open to experimentation,
| which they are not accustomed to so they need to change habits to
| do this. And every bike lane has opponents, which you also need
| to overcome to plan the cycling infrastructure (sometimes
| compromises are impossible, not every street is wide enough to
| accommodate everyone).
|
| In munich, the city where I grew up in, there's a strong public
| pressure to create better biking infrastructure. It was put up on
| popular vote and was the historically best performing yet. But
| that's not represented in every party and ruling coalitions can
| be slowed down by forming a coalition with a bike-sceptical
| party, like the last. But the pressure is growing because there's
| really no progress yet, it's not possible to evade the issue in
| the near future.
|
| Is this disconnect present in other countries? I feel like this
| situation is at least prevalent in quite a few german cities.
| Which is understandable from a political point of view, to build
| bike-infrastructure you have to take road away so you will always
| anger someone and create public opposition.
| noelwelsh wrote:
| Paris is brought up in conversations about improving cycling
| and cycle infrastructure because it has really rapidly
| increased the number of journeys done by bike. This has mostly
| happened since the start of the pandemic, and has also
| coincided with creating many more bike lanes.
| dopidopHN wrote:
| It's in the making since a solid decade too.
|
| I remember the introduction of velib, throwing lot of new
| users on the ill adapted roads.then the city fumbling to
| adapt.
|
| It's also in grain in the culture at this point.
|
| That city is so dense and small ... people got the message
| that you can be anywhere in 30 min of biking.
| BlargMcLarg wrote:
| >Is this disconnect present in other countries?
|
| To ruffle some feathers, yes. And this in the country that
| always seems to be the first example given: The Netherlands.
|
| Don't get me wrong. Relative to most countries, NL is great for
| cyclists. Specifically Amsterdam and Utrecht are great for a
| car-free life, as well as some other cities. Areas close to
| train stations, connected to any bigger city, tend to do well
| too.
|
| That's about where it ends. Public transport took humongous
| hits and roads are being expanded. Why? Because despite
| everything, car usage is going up and traffic jams are once
| again increasing. Specifically on Tuesdays and Thursdays, when
| most people are expected to be at the office. Since public
| transport is increasingly _worsening_ , most people will simply
| take the car all the way rather than doing a bit by bicycle and
| then using the bus/train.
|
| Housing prices make the above even worse (more people have to
| live outside locations ideal for cycling, PT or a combination),
| and the government is actively playing into car ownership. I
| hope I don't need to explain why propping up individual car
| usage makes building more housing even more problematic (hint:
| you need to park them, for one).
|
| "But Amsterdam is doing great! But Utrecht is doing great! But
| I can get from Almere to Amsterdam really easily!" Sure, they
| are. Now please, overlap Paris, London, or any other big city
| on top of the Netherlands. Achieving a 100% cyclable Paris is a
| far bigger achievement than Amsterdam and Utrecht combined. And
| the writing is on the wall what happens when cars are more
| affordable and commutes by motorized vehicle are 1 hour a day
| minimum: car usage continues to go up.
|
| This isn't to be discouraging either. Rather, it's to show that
| governments can't slack off and take the easy path out. The
| easy path leads to congested roads, traffic jams, frustrated
| drivers, mass pollution and a highly inefficient use of ground
| area.
| b3orn wrote:
| > Achieving a 100% cyclable Paris is a far bigger achievement
| than Amsterdam and Utrecht combined.
|
| If I'm not mistaken the goal of 100% cyclable Paris is
| limited to the city of Paris which has half the area of
| Amsterdam. AFAIK there's a lot less interest in cyclability
| in the surrounding areas of Paris and they are somewhat
| annoyed because a lot of people from there commute to Paris
| by car.
| jtwaleson wrote:
| Half the size of Amsterdam? I had to look this up but
| you're right. The "City of Paris" has 2M inhabitants and
| 105 sq km. Amsterdam has 0.9M inhabitants and 219 sq km.
| Learned something new, thanks :)
| sofixa wrote:
| > If I'm not mistaken the goal of 100% cyclable Paris is
| limited to the city of Paris which has half the area of
| Amsterdam
|
| But twice the population.
|
| > AFAIK there's a lot less interest in cyclability in the
| surrounding areas
|
| Depends on the city, but the majority are also working on
| making themselves more cyclable, even when the terrain
| isn't great for it (western suburbs are quite hilly).
| Tobu wrote:
| Progress is fast (much better than when Velib was launched in
| 2007), most arrondissements (except maybe 15th/16th) are
| convenient to get around, the center has some huge lanes that
| bode well for the future, and there's roadwork at just about
| every large intersection that hasn't been upgraded yet.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI-1YNAmWlk
| throw__away7391 wrote:
| I was in Paris for the first time in four years this summer, and
| I have to say I was quite impressed, even by European standards
| the city stands out as extremely bike accessible, much more so
| than before (at least the city center). It completely changes the
| way you see certain parts of the city. I've been many times in
| the past and returning to the same places now where the area used
| to be dominated by a busy street now you see the buildings, if
| you're on a bike or walking on a pedestrian designated street you
| see them from the angle looking from the center, as they were
| originally designed to be seen, rather than looking up from under
| from the sidewalks.
| jorl17 wrote:
| I was in Paris for work two weeks ago and fell in love with it.
| What a wonderful city!
|
| Even though I (shamefully) don't know how to ride a bike, I was
| amazed at how many bikes there were and how bike accessible
| everything was.
| retinaros wrote:
| dont worry a good chunk of the paris people on a bike cant
| ride a bike either. no respect of laws , dangerous for
| pedestrians and to other bikers
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| how did it happen that you don't know how to ride a bike?
| Genuinely curious.
| aembleton wrote:
| I guess they never learnt. If you never learn then you
| won't know how to ride. Tom Scott made a video, as an adult
| learning to ride a bike
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7GKK3liv8M
| oceanplexian wrote:
| I was in Paris a few weeks ago and while I think they have
| decent bike infrastructure, the car infrastructure was
| terrible.
|
| In Manhattan (which has 4x the population of Paris) you can get
| an Uber and go a few km in maybe 15-20 minutes. In Paris it's
| an hour+. Sure, stealing infrastructure from cars to give to
| bikes will make biking quicker, but it's a zero-sun game.
| You're basically stealing resources from people who are
| elderly, disabled, have families, etc. to prioritize
| bicyclists. Great for some people at the expense of others.
| retinaros wrote:
| 100% right. there is also a very weird feeling when you see
| paris mayor hating so much on cars but loving cabs so much
| (the g7 taxi, biggest taxi company in france, is a gigantic
| donator to the socialist party and has been for decades)
|
| at the end her dream is for paris to be copenhagen , a city
| for the rich people living in the center. if they re healthy
| theyll bike if they re old theyll have a cab or private
| driver (just like our dear mayor) and of course lets not
| forget rich tourists who will ride cabs to go by hermes bags.
|
| this is totally disrespectful toward people living in suburbs
| and having the need to commute by car
| Fricken wrote:
| Old people, young people, poor people, disabled people: they
| can't drive. It adds up to a lot of second class citizens.
|
| A friend of mine is a quadruple amputee. He cannot drive, but
| he can use his motorized wheelchair in bike lanes and travel
| independently.
| hiq wrote:
| > you can get an Uber and go a few km in maybe 15-20 minutes.
| In Paris it's an hour+.
|
| From where to where? That's not my experience at all.
|
| > it's a zero-sun game
|
| It's not, given that you fit way more people on bikes that
| you would if they were driving cars.
|
| Public transportation is also meant to be usable by the
| people you mentioned (especially families), you can debate
| whether they currently foot the bill, but staying stuck on
| cars is not the solution.
| throw__away7391 wrote:
| > You're basically stealing resources from people who are
| elderly, disabled, have families, etc. to prioritize
| bicyclists.
|
| I am really sick of this "think of the children" argument for
| why the US needs to persist in this dysfunctional car-centric
| model, particularly when they're applied to the only part of
| the country with halfway decent transportation alternatives.
| I live in lower Manhattan, we need LESS cars and we're going
| to get it sooner or later. If you don't like that, please
| stay out of the city, you have practically the entire
| continent of cities already suited to live your car-centered
| suburban life.
| satysin wrote:
| As someone that lives in Lyon I _really_ hope we do something
| similar in the centre (around Bellecour). There are way too many
| cars in a small area it is just ridiculous.
| [deleted]
| jmfldn wrote:
| Please please please do this to London too! I understand the
| geography is tough and that the haphazard 'planning' evolved
| organically over 2000 years from its origin as Roman Londinium.
| Anything is possible with the right will behind it though.
|
| Investing in cycling infrastructure is a magic bullet to help
| advance three key policy areas for any society. Public health,
| overcrowded public transport / congested roads and CO2 reduction.
| kergonath wrote:
| > evolved organically over 2000 years from its origin as Roman
| Londinium
|
| Just as that other Roman town Lutetia. Paris and London are
| _very_ similar in a lot of respects.
| jmfldn wrote:
| Paris' road system was redesigned. It seems far less
| haphazard than London to me, at least the bits I've seen.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_Pa.
| ..
| juujian wrote:
| I do not understand why a 2000 year old organically grown city
| should somehow work for cars but should be impossible to
| traverse by bike. That does not make any sense. Certainly it
| would be easier to fit bikes in there than cars. That is,
| unless you see the space yielded to cars as a void that has
| been absorbed and cannot be regain.
| ReptileMan wrote:
| London doesn't work for cars. I endearingly call central
| london and m25 the biggest open space parking lots in the
| world
| jmfldn wrote:
| I didn't say it was impossible.
|
| However, it's really your last point I was thinking of. It's
| a haphazard city of narrow streets given over to cars. That
| makes it a hard problem to solve.
|
| As I said, anything is possible with enough will.
| walthamstow wrote:
| The biggest problem in London is the fragmentation. 32 boroughs
| + the City + TFL. It's planning chaos.
|
| My borough of Waltham Forest, at least the parts inside the
| north circular, has segregated cycle lanes pretty much
| everywhere. Nextdoor in Haringey, not so much.
| case0x00 wrote:
| Is it even tenable to attempt this for the entirety of
| Greater London? Should the focus be on just improving Central
| London I wonder?
| [deleted]
| doublesocket wrote:
| > The biggest problem in London is the fragmentation. 32
| boroughs + the City + TFL. It's planning chaos.
|
| It's chaos for just about everything else too, especially
| when it come to IT. Every council outsources the exact same
| functions to different companies and almost none of them do
| it well. It's a collosal waste of resources.
| panick21_ wrote:
| I don't like to cycle but I am 100% in favor of major investment
| in walk-ability and cycleable. Even if you prefer public
| transport, or even cars, it much better to operate in a city that
| is designed around the principles of walkability.
|
| New Urbanism has been pushing this for a long time, walkability
| is at the core of both high and low density urbanism. An the
| bicycle is the natural extinction of that.
| diebeforei485 wrote:
| The energy shortage might be a great catalyst to
| walkable/bikeable cities in Europe this year.
| jmyeet wrote:
| People want lots of things until they realize it'll take
| something away from cars. Paris won't be as bad as the US is but
| it's still there.
|
| I see a lot of cities that measure bike lanes in total length,
| which misses the mark in two ways:
|
| 1. It often includes lanes that are shared with cars. These
| shouldn't count except on side streets. Basically anywhere where
| the speed limit is <25kmh; and
|
| 2. Focus needs to be given on _contiguous_ cycling routes. It
| doesn 't matter if you have 1000km of cycle routes if no section
| is longer than 2km and they're only connected by highways you
| have to share with cars.
|
| Of course Amsterdam is the gold standard here and it shows how
| much you can do without necessarily taking up more space (eg the
| intersection design that puts cyclists in front of cars, which is
| much safer).
|
| In a city like Paris having physically separate bike lanes will
| often mean taking away parking spaces or lanes of traffic. That's
| where the resistance will be.
| Wilya wrote:
| The resistance is already there, it's already happening. Car
| owners in Paris are furious, and bike infrastructure is already
| taking away space from roads. High traffic roads in the center
| have been downright closed and made bike-only.
|
| It is feasible because Paris (the city itself, excluding
| suburbs) is a _very_ crowded city, where owning a car has
| always been a luxury. People living in Paris itself who can
| afford a car, with the associated parking space and everything,
| are a minority.
|
| People living in the suburbs are more likely to own cars and
| drive through Paris, but they don't elect the Paris mayor, so
| their opinion doesn't have much weight.
| retinaros wrote:
| problem is car owners are not only from paris but from the
| suburbs and need a car to commute and cant afford to live in
| paris to ride a bike
| mitchbob wrote:
| Archived: https://archive.ph/lcxwf
| bsaul wrote:
| Has any city or bike maker found a solution to bike theft ?
|
| I used to bike in Paris until my bike got stolen. It got me so
| furious i stopped.
| JofArnold wrote:
| I ride a Brompton; folds up and I take it into the shops with
| me.
| jtwaleson wrote:
| I live in Utrecht, we have tons of guarded bike garages in the
| inner city, including the biggest bicycle parking garage in the
| world at the central station with room for 10k bikes (look it
| up, it's amazing!). I park my EUR2.5k bike at home and at the
| station and have 0 worries. When going to other places I often
| bring a crappy bike, or park it for short bits.
| ruuda wrote:
| Fun fact, the signs that show how many parking spaces are
| left run NixOS!
| sofixa wrote:
| That is a fun fact! Do you have any more public information
| you can share?
| ruuda wrote:
| It is built by https://lumi.guide/portfolio-
| items/p-route-bicycle-utrecht/, I just happen to know
| some people who worked there. The Haskell community is
| pretty small :)
| jtwaleson wrote:
| Cool! The numbers are not that accurate though :') That's
| probably an issue with the sensors and not the software.
| INTPenis wrote:
| I live in bicycle heavy Malmo and a part of growing street wise
| here is to know how and where to secure your bike. It's really
| risk mitigation since portable bike locks have limited
| security. But it works for me and my 2014 Specialized Awol
| daily driver for everything from city to camping.
|
| But a hugely important factor are well designed bike racks. My
| favorite is the steel loop that comes up from the ground, like
| a long U.[1] There are tons of variations but the point is to
| have a solid point to anchor the bike with your lock. In my
| case I mostly want to save the frame, but a longer chain and I
| could probably save a wheel. Gotta balance comfort and security
| too tho
|
| 1. https://maps.app.goo.gl/iDK4CUx853oxoKhz6
| occz wrote:
| >But a hugely important factor are well designed bike racks.
| My favorite is the steel loop that comes up from the ground,
| like a long U.
|
| I believe they are called Sheffield Racks.
| Fricken wrote:
| I've had many bikes stolen over my life and the total costs are
| still a fraction of what it would cost to have used public
| transport instead.
| aikinai wrote:
| Vanmoofs have a built in alarm, are trackable, and the company
| sells theft insurance.
|
| Japan has very little theft, but it's cultural and not
| something you can implement with policy. Maybe widespread bike
| registration helps?
| [deleted]
| beowulfey wrote:
| My solution is to ride a junky bike, but it definitely does not
| work for everyone
| Scoundreller wrote:
| That strategy worked for me in Toronto until the pandemic
| hit. Dunno if it's the culture of some people or genuine
| parts shortage, but had a not-exactly-true wheel stolen (and
| the bolts loosened on the other that was locked...), a saddle
| with a crack covered with tape (found the tape on the
| ground!), and someone tried to tear off my dollar-store bell
| and destroyed it (my anti-theft screw was a Robertson :) ).
| magicalhippo wrote:
| Some friends of the family have been buying expensive top-of-
| the-line MTBs for decades. They said the first thing they do
| when they buy a new bike is go to the store and pick up a
| couple of spray cans with suitably horrible colors, and then
| spray paint the bike until it looks totally janky.
|
| Worked for them so far, none of their bikes have been stolen.
| shtopointo wrote:
| Maybe a long sturdy chain + good lock to wrap around both
| wheels of the bike and the frame. When I lived in Holland and
| used to buy second-hand bikes for like 120 euros, they used to
| say to buy a chain of equivalent value :-)
| schrijver wrote:
| In big cities bikes get stolen, it's always been that way. Of
| course it would be nice if it were different but it's sad if
| that stops you from riding!
|
| The Dutch approach in cities has been to drive something old
| and or cheap that you can afford to get stolen. It works
| because the country is pretty flat so you don't need a fancy
| light bike with many gears. Paris is pretty flat too.
|
| Lately subscription services like swapfiets have become popular
| that include maintenance and theft insurance. Through economies
| of scale, I think it's competitive with ownership especially
| for city dwellers without a garage with tools.
|
| I now live in a city with more hills, so I needed a bit more
| capable bike-I bought a cheap second hand bike with 21 gears. I
| put some permanantly attached bags on the back which are
| practical and make the bike look less desireable. I use an axa
| lock attached to the frame and a separate chain. From day one I
| accepted it would get stolen at some point--so I feel like I've
| been on a six year lucky streak.
|
| Defeatist? Sure! But I bike without worries.
| lloeki wrote:
| > Paris is pretty flat too
|
| someone here never tried to climb Montmartre (e.g, there are
| many steep hills inside and around Paris)
| zahma wrote:
| I have one of these but haven't put it to the test. Combined
| with another type of lock for the front wheel (+frame), I'd say
| you're in a good place.
|
| https://hiplok.com/product/hiplok-d1000/
| Scoundreller wrote:
| Electrified bikeshares. Overcomes their tank like structure and
| performance.
|
| Some cities do have badge access bike rooms, but you have to
| subscribe to those.
|
| I just have a rusty 12spd that performs well, U-lock rear wheel
| within the triangle, minimal chain for the front wheel, and an
| old bike chain looped on the saddle.
|
| I refuse to deal with bike locking rooms, paid or not. Lock
| outside and oil frequently and I can lock up precisely at my
| destination.
| occz wrote:
| I believe cities that have attempted some form of bicycle
| registration system has had good success with reducing bicycle
| theft, but that does require the local police to actually give
| a damn about bicycles, which is very uncommon.
| zahma wrote:
| Great news, but building the lanes doesn't mean it will be
| cyclable. Paris leadership suffers from myopia when it comes to
| equating bike lanes with how cyclable the city is. Yes, dedicated
| infrastructure is necessary to accomplish this goal, but it won't
| happen without accommodating the needs of others and changing how
| the city operates.
|
| 1) Stop giving carte blanche to taxis, ride-shares, and scooters.
| These vehicles are allowed unrestricted access, whether legal or
| illegal, to bus lanes, which tend to double as bike lanes and the
| unofficial express lane for scooters. They are aggressive and
| tend not to follow rules that ensure safety and circulation
| fluidity. We also have Uber Eats and the like for this shitshow
| -- so thanks to all of you for making it that much easier to
| order McDonald's at rush hour.
|
| 2) Stop pretending like everyone wants to bike. They don't, and
| that's OK. Real effort needs to be made to get cars off the road
| for those who do want to bike every day across the city. That
| means double down on mass transit so that it is desirable. I
| really mean that: fix the RATP. Gut it if need be. Leverage it
| until the mayor has to sell her second property -- I don't care.
| The metro/RER is a disgusting place fraught with maintenance
| issues, and certain lines at certain hours are not safe.
|
| 3) Change the way Parisian and suburban drivers behave around
| cyclists, which I really view as tandem to point 2 above. Safety
| is a major disincentive for would-be cyclists. There are any
| number of corners with painted bicycle memorial commemorating
| someone who tragically died on his/her bike. Unfortunately, it is
| the mentality of drivers that they are the rulers of the road,
| and I have seen this get worse with the pandemic's wide-reaching
| effects on mental well-being. But we can either get drivers off
| the road or force them to conform to basic respect for other
| commuters, which leads me to the following.
|
| 4) Actually enforce traffic laws. Paris police don't enforce much
| of anything, let alone reckless driving or even speeding.
| Recently the speed limit in paris went down to 30kph (~20mph).
| Nobody respects this rule -- indeed some commuting cyclists can
| even break 30kph on a stretch of boulevard. It is the nature of
| cars to try to pass a cyclist.
|
| Parisians drive "n'importe comment" because they have to in order
| to get somewhere. There are simply too many people on the road
| and too much chaos, and cyclists are certainly part of this
| problem and then follow suit. I have done this far too many
| times, though I like to think I'm not harming anyone. Getting
| cars off the road and doing a better job to create a partnership
| between commuters to get everyone where they want to be is the
| missing piece here.
|
| What I'm asking for here is everything -- infrastructure,
| mindset, enforcement -- to be fixed at once, which is not
| realistic. Drivers will certainly balk at this news, and they are
| right -- it's just that they are on the wrong side of history.
| The more bike lanes that pop up and retract space from automobile
| lanes will create more congestion unless people are given viable
| alternatives into the city. I would like to demonize them for
| having sought a better life outside Paris while the urbanites
| suffer with the effects of noise and air pollution and difficulty
| sometimes finding a place to walk. There's also a role for
| discussing telecommuting as a way of reducing the strain on the
| city's roadways, which is also an enormous budgetary constraint.
| A larger transition toward a city for its inhabitants is
| necessary -- not merely more bike lanes. I want to hear that
| articulated. Give people a chance to live outside. Paris is not
| what it used to be and building 100mi of bike lanes won't return
| it to former glory unless we start thinking more about what makes
| a city worth living in.
| retinaros wrote:
| this totally and ill add that riding a bike would need a permit
| or an exam where you learn the driving code. bikers are awful .
| ibike myself and very often im the only one respecting the
| code. they just reckless and dangerous to pedestrians
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