[HN Gopher] FCC Approves 5 Year Satellite Deorbiting Rule
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       FCC Approves 5 Year Satellite Deorbiting Rule
        
       Author : sebg
       Score  : 137 points
       Date   : 2022-09-30 15:41 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (payloadspace.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (payloadspace.com)
        
       | Dracophoenix wrote:
       | When exactly did the FCC's jurisdiction extend to the heavens?
       | There should be a lot more concern than there currently is over
       | an agency granting itself powers over private property in space.
        
         | rzimmerman wrote:
         | FCC approval is required to communicate with a (US-based)
         | satellite in space, so effectively they can apply rules like
         | this one. It's less of a power grab/nefarious plot and more a
         | utilitarian kind of thing - the FCC has historically been the
         | only agency that has authority to exert this pressure, so the
         | work falls on them. It's admittedly odd that it's not the FAA
         | or Space Force, but that's how it is.
        
           | Dracophoenix wrote:
           | If one were to launch satellites over the United States that
           | communicate with transponders set up in Mexico, the
           | Caribbean, Greenland, and Canada, would that be outside scope
           | of the FCC's jurisdiction?
        
             | bluGill wrote:
             | In general those countries have their own rules that while
             | different amount to the same with different details. The
             | smaller countries generally copy what the US does (or
             | possibly what the EU does).
             | 
             | While you might be able to find a country to let you pick
             | your own rules, you will only be able to talk to your
             | satellite which means you can't do much with it. Most
             | satellite are used for communicating to people on the
             | ground and if you can't communicate to the US the satellite
             | is much less valuable.
        
         | frostburg wrote:
         | They're friends with other people with guns and rockets.
        
         | enraged_camel wrote:
         | Well, various government agencies have jurisdiction over, say,
         | private cars that drive on public roads, so why couldn't you
         | apply similar logic to the FCC with regards to satellite
         | regulation?
        
           | Dracophoenix wrote:
           | No country has any recognized territorial claims to space.
           | Roads are built within and between territories. I don't know
           | of a road built on unclaimed territory that grants a far away
           | government jurisdiction over every car traveling through the
           | said territory, even if these cars used other paths or went
           | off-trail.
        
             | l33t233372 wrote:
             | The FCC's jurisdiction only applies to satellites
             | communicating with US based ground stations.
        
               | Dracophoenix wrote:
               | The FCC derives its powers from the Communications Act of
               | 1934 (before Sputnik) and a few Supreme Court cases, none
               | of which have to do with satellite communication. That
               | the FCC has jurisdiction over terrestrial radio spectra
               | does not give it the right to create additional
               | requirements for communication with orbital satellites
               | even if there are US-based ground stations involved.
        
               | dragonwriter wrote:
               | > The FCC derives its powers from the Communications Act
               | of 1934 (before Sputnik)
               | 
               | ...which has many post-Sputnik amebdments, but
               | specifically the FCC role regarding policy for
               | communication satellites comes from the Communication
               | Satellites Act of 1962.
        
       | MichaelCollins wrote:
       | > _The rule shortens the time required for satellite operators to
       | deorbit LEO satellites to no more than 5 years after completing
       | their mission, from 25 years._
       | 
       | De-orbiting faster means reserving more propellant for the final
       | de-orbit burn. Since the lifespan of satellites is already
       | generally determined by how much propellant they have, this new
       | rule effectively reduces the lifespan of any satellite high
       | enough to require a de-orbit burn.
       | 
       | Companies that use very low satellites are impacted less, since
       | atmospheric drag does more of the work.
        
         | teawrecks wrote:
         | I'm no rocket scientist, but could there be a service which
         | knocks satellites out of orbit for people? I wonder how cost
         | effective such a service could get. Could one mission knock 10
         | satellites out of orbit?
        
           | benslavin wrote:
           | I'm aware of Astroscale (https://astroscale.com/). They're a
           | Japanese company with a presence in the US and UK that's
           | commercializing this sort of service. I'm not sure if they
           | have plans for multi-satellite de-orbit services, but they do
           | have single-satellite plans.
           | 
           | Among other things, they're promoting a standardized docking
           | adapter (https://astroscale.com/docking-plate/) to give
           | satellite operators a path to either life extension
           | (refueling and/or orbit raising) or de-orbit.
        
           | tejtm wrote:
           | Woz seems to think so.
           | 
           | https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/01/tech/space-junk-steve-
           | wozniak...
        
             | MichaelCollins wrote:
             | Given Woz's post-Apple track record, that's not a good
             | sign..
        
           | loeg wrote:
           | It would cost more than reserving some propellant.
        
           | bryanlarsen wrote:
           | Going from travelling at Mach 25 in one direction to
           | travelling at Mach 25 in a different direction takes an
           | amount of energy comparable to going from 0 to Mach 25. Being
           | outside of atmosphere helps a lot, and being able to use the
           | less powerful but more efficient electric ion propulsion
           | engines helps a lot, but 10 satellites per mission is usually
           | not feasible. 3 per mission is the number I've heard.
           | 
           | Some companies approaching this problem are hoping to utilize
           | refueling depots. It adds another expensive rendezvous but it
           | does help.
        
           | apendleton wrote:
           | With a vehicle, probably not. Moving form one satellite's
           | orbit to another is extremely fuel-intensive (you'd typically
           | need ~thousands of km/h of velocity change to do it), so it's
           | not really practical to have a single vehicle up there moving
           | from satellite to satellite.
           | 
           | But maybe there'd be some other way to do it? There have been
           | proposals for de-orbiting little pieces of debris from the
           | ground with lasers, and I suppose it's possible that those
           | approaches would scale to bigger objects (or maybe you could
           | do it with lasers from other satellites whose orbits were
           | fixed, or something).
        
             | dmckeon wrote:
             | A set of satellites that could do laser ablation of debris
             | or EOL sats would be great, but would need safeguards to
             | not become a weapon of economics or war.
             | 
             | Avoiding splash-over or collateral damage to other sats in
             | or near the line-of-sight would be an issue, especially if
             | any of those other sats might have capabilities that their
             | nation/owner might want to keep secret. Perhaps an
             | arrangement of vetos over particular ablation shots would
             | suffice. Countries wanting to hide their interests in some
             | sats could veto N times as many shots as needed, making
             | uncovering which sats are special more difficult.
             | 
             | In any case, laser ablation would need much less delta-V
             | than the usual imagery of plucky space-cowboys chasing
             | errant sats with a net, or some such. Who knew that
             | _Planetes_ would have such a strong effect on our
             | collective imagination.
        
             | MichaelCollins wrote:
             | In the far future, perhaps orbit-cleaners could eat dead
             | satellites and space debris, atomizing the debris and
             | turning it into reaction mass.
        
         | s1artibartfast wrote:
         | How does this FFC rule work in an international market? I
         | assume it applies for US companies with US based launches.
         | 
         | Does it apply to US satellite companies with ex-US launches?
         | 
         | Are US companies free to purchase service/bandwidth from ex-US
         | launched satellites which are not compliant?
        
           | MichaelCollins wrote:
           | US companies launching satellites with foreign launch
           | providers still need to get a license from the FCC if their
           | satellite uses radio communications.
        
             | bryanlarsen wrote:
             | How about foreign satellites on foreign launch systems that
             | wish to communicate with ground stations in the US? I
             | assume they also need an FCC license.
        
               | MichaelCollins wrote:
               | Yes, satellites communicating with ground stations in the
               | US need licenses from the FCC, regardless of where
               | they're launched or where the owner is based. US
               | satellites that exclusively communicate with ground
               | stations outside of the US might not, but I'm not sure
               | about that. Satellites launched by other US government
               | agencies (NRO, etc) might also be exempt.
        
         | wumpus wrote:
         | > De-orbiting faster means reserving more propellant for the
         | final de-orbit burn.
         | 
         | One new technology is releasing a sail to increase drag.
         | 
         | Example: http://www.parabolicarc.com/2021/08/23/millennium-
         | space-syst...
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | If rules didn't cause inconvenience to someone, they wouldn't
         | have to be written.
        
           | MichaelCollins wrote:
           | I was thinking more along the line of the new rule giving
           | another commercial advantage to SpaceX. Starlink will be
           | effected, their satellites already deorbit faster than 5
           | years. But many other satellite operators will have to launch
           | more frequently, and SpaceX is positioned to meet that
           | growing demand.
        
             | chousuke wrote:
             | I don't really see it as "giving" a commercial advantage to
             | anyone if the new rule's purpose is to prevent something
             | harmful and someone happens to benefit because they're
             | already not doing that harmful thing.
             | 
             | In my view it's really a separate issue if SpaceX has too
             | many advantages and that levelling the playing field
             | somehow would be useful; allowing companies to grow too
             | powerful does cause problems, and I don't think there's a
             | moral requirement for regulators to be "fair" when dealing
             | with corporations. They are not humans.
             | 
             | The need for that sort of intervention should not keep us
             | from instating otherwise beneficial rules, though.
        
               | MichaelCollins wrote:
               | > _In my view it 's really a separate issue if SpaceX has
               | too many advantages_
               | 
               | That's not what I was saying. I was offering an
               | observation, not a critique. I think this new rule is
               | good.
        
               | chousuke wrote:
               | Oh, I didn't really read it as a critique; mostly just
               | the phrasing of "giving another commercial advantage"
               | made me want to comment since it can be read as if that's
               | the (or even just a) purpose of the rule.
        
             | xani_ wrote:
             | > But many other satellite operators will have to launch
             | more frequently, and SpaceX is positioned to meet that
             | growing demand.
             | 
             | Read the article. It's about deorbiting after mission is
             | finished.
             | 
             | If you have enough fuel on board you're free to keep your
             | satellite for 50 years on the orbit. You just have to
             | deorbit it within 5 after you stopped using it.
        
         | Me1000 wrote:
         | To be honest, this seems quite reasonable. Space is obviously a
         | unique environment, but to use an imperfect analogy: we don't
         | let cars that break down just sit in the middle of the road,
         | and we don't let dilapidated buildings sit unattended until
         | they collapse.
         | 
         | There's an externality to leaving a EOL'd satellite in LEO, now
         | these new rules require that externality be priced in. Either
         | through the cost of reserving enough propellant for a de-orbit
         | burn, or perhaps, one day, for more expensive satellites, a new
         | industry could emerge for refueling/boosting/servicing to
         | extend the sat's life.
         | 
         | This regulation seems like a good sign that the commercial
         | space industry is starting to mature in a healthy way.
        
           | JaggedJax wrote:
           | The future is here! I know of at least one company, Orbit
           | Fab, who already has signed contracts for their in-orbit
           | refueling service. It's a bit early to see how successful or
           | profitable this will be though.
        
       | danieldbird wrote:
       | I know how small the debris is relative to the earth. But the
       | sheer number. Would that have any effect on the sun reaching
       | earth and it's heating / cooling?
        
         | gpm wrote:
         | No.
         | 
         | To have an effect you need to launch multiple orders of
         | magnitude more mass than we have, and that mass would need to
         | be optimized towards having as large as an effect as possible
         | by being very very thin film positioned so that it is
         | consistently between earth and the sun (or you could add on a
         | few more orders of magnitude).
         | 
         | You can look at proposal for doing this intentionally to get a
         | sense for the scale:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_sunshade
        
         | xani_ wrote:
         | Nope
        
         | ultra_nick wrote:
         | No, that's like trying to cool your house with a pinch of dust.
         | 
         | Bus = 0.0002 km2
         | 
         | Earth = 510.1 million km2
         | 
         | (Earth / Bus) / 100 = 25,000,000,000 bus sized satellites
         | needed to cover 1% of the sky.
        
       | jmount wrote:
       | The previous "de-orbing 25 years after mission completion" sound
       | a deliberately unenforceable rule.
        
         | rzimmerman wrote:
         | It was enforced during licensing. In order to obtain a license
         | from the FCC (which is effectively required to launch a
         | satellite, unless you never want to communicate with it), you
         | had to prove it would either deorbit naturally in < 25 years or
         | that you had a system to do so at the end of the mission. The
         | rule was generally to have a plan and an ability to deorbit
         | after 25 years. A lot of satellites fail in ways that prevent
         | using a propulsion system.
        
         | kobalsky wrote:
         | I'm not sure but I think has to do with parking the satellite
         | in a lower orbit such that the atmospheric drag will force it
         | to reenter within 25 years, not that the operator has 25 years
         | to deorbit the satellite at some point.
         | 
         | I think this has to do with the amount of fuel the need to save
         | to reach the disposal orbit.
        
         | mikepurvis wrote:
         | I expect that's less about having to reserve fuel or have a
         | specific plan for it, and more that to get approval, you have
         | to be able to plausibly show a model where the device will
         | deorbit on its own within 25 years of no maintenance burns.
        
       | Eleison23 wrote:
       | One day we will need to pass laws against celebratory satellite
       | launches on holidays and the urban microphone networks will be
       | calibrated to detect heavy-lift launches by gangstas. New nations
       | will enshrine the right to launch satellites in their
       | constitutions. Elementary schools will go on lockdown when a
       | student is discovered to have built a satellite and fuelled their
       | boosters.
        
       | kortex wrote:
       | I wanted to know if this affects "graveyard orbits". Seems like
       | this applies only to satellites in LEO, while MEO/GEO are exempt.
       | 
       | > The Report and Order adopted today requires satellites ending
       | their mission in or passing through the low-Earth orbit region
       | (below 2,000 kilometers altitude) to deorbit as soon as
       | practicable but no later than five years after mission
       | completion.
        
       | causi wrote:
       | I'd like to see a breakdown of deorbiting fuel requirements with
       | 25 years vs 5 years vs, say, 30 days.
        
         | rzimmerman wrote:
         | I'd expect the fuel required is generally the same, but this
         | changes the altitude range for the question "do I need
         | propulsion at all?" Satellites that would decay naturally in
         | 6-10 years due to atmospheric drag would have satisfied the old
         | rule. Now they need to install a propulsion system.
         | 
         | The actual impact is probably small - there aren't that many
         | satellites launching to those altitudes, and most of them
         | probably have a propulsion system anyway. But for a university
         | satellite this could be a big obstacle.
        
       | karaterobot wrote:
       | I wonder if they could do a "debris offset credits" type thing,
       | where you could extend the life of your satellite by clearing out
       | existing debris. So if you wanted a 25-year orbit, you could
       | clear out maybe 5-10x the cross-sectional area, or mass, or
       | whatever the relevant number is.
        
         | itp wrote:
         | The new rule is 5 years after mission completion, so this
         | already allows for a 25-year orbit (as long as you're still
         | operating).
        
       | T3RMINATED wrote:
        
       | nonethewiser wrote:
       | Good improvement. What is China's rules for de-orbiting?
        
         | Someone1234 wrote:
         | It wouldn't surprise me if they wound up just copying this,
         | making it a de-facto international standard. Space junk is an
         | international problem, nobody wins by it continuously becoming
         | worse.
         | 
         | De-orbiting requirements add costs, but space junk damage and
         | or avoidance systems are even more expensive, so this is the
         | cheap solution in the medium to long term.
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | I would expect that they put their own rules in places that
           | are different enough to be annoying if you need to permission
           | from both countries, but for practical purposes the end
           | result is the same. It may or may not be possible to satisfy
           | the letter of both countries rules though.
        
       | rzimmerman wrote:
       | I think this is generally a good thing to do, with some caveats
       | that I hope the FCC considers.
       | 
       | For most satellites below ~450km, this is really a non-issue.
       | Atmospheric drag will generally be sufficient to deorbit the
       | satellite in a few years. For big Earth-observing constellations,
       | Starlink and friends, and many small missions, this doesn't
       | change anything. Debris don't really accumulate dangerously in
       | this zone and collision avoidance is a well-studied problem with
       | a lot of people doing great work. The 18th SDS with the US Space
       | Force, LeoLabs, Starlink/SpaceX, and a lot of other constellation
       | operators take this very seriously and do a good job.
       | 
       | For satellites in the 800km+ range, this is also not a meaningful
       | change. The 25-year rule meant that these satellites needed a
       | deorbit plan anyway. 800km is a rough estimate, in real life it
       | depends on the satellite mass + geometry and the solar cycle.
       | 
       | For satellites in the 450-800km range (again - hand waving here)
       | this is actually a big deal. Satellites that would decay
       | naturally between 5 and 25 years now need an active deorbit plan
       | or need to launch lower and keep themselves up with propellant.
       | Small satellite propulsion is becoming cheaper and more
       | available, so this isn't that onerous for commercial operators.
       | But I do worry a little about educational and non-profit
       | launchers of satellites. They'd be excluded from using launches
       | to this orbital range unless the FCC allows waivers (which I'm
       | hopeful they will).
       | 
       | Overall I don't think this has a particularly big impact. It's a
       | sensible revision of an old rule that was a little too lax. But
       | there aren't that many satellites launching at the high end of
       | the 450-800km range without propulsion. The 1000km-2000km area is
       | a more important area for debris mitigation and that was really
       | already covered.
       | 
       | As for the FCC having this jurisdiction vs. the FAA or the USSF,
       | as Spock would say - "it is not logical, but it is true."
        
         | ortusdux wrote:
         | Several companies have been developing deorbit add-on modules,
         | and I hope this requirement spurs on this growing industry. I
         | would love it if it became the norm that satellites have a
         | passive failsafe deorbit system that activates at after a set
         | amount of time or if ground communications fail for a set
         | duration.
         | 
         | https://www.nasa.gov/smallsat-institute/sst-soa/deorbit-syst...
        
         | elliekelly wrote:
         | > Debris don't really accumulate dangerously in this zone and
         | collision avoidance is a well-studied problem with a lot of
         | people doing great work.
         | 
         | I think this line of thinking is dangerously incorrect. Sure
         | it's not a problem _right now_ but we're poised to have a lot
         | more stuff in orbit than we've ever had before. Plastic waste
         | didn't initially "accumulate dangerously" either but once it
         | became more widely used (and _did_ accumulate dangerously) it
         | was much more difficult to try to reign it back.
        
           | bryanlarsen wrote:
           | Debris does not accumulate in LEO, it reenters naturally.
           | This isn't like plastic waste, it's more like organic waste
           | that naturally decays. Sometimes the law says you have to
           | clean up organic waste, but sometimes it's better to let it
           | rot on its own.
        
             | mikeyouse wrote:
             | The timeframe varies _widely_ based on the shape of the
             | object and the altitude. There are something like 5 orders
             | of magnitude pressure difference between an object at 100km
             | and one at 500km which is the difference between deorbiting
             | in days vs years.
        
               | bryanlarsen wrote:
               | There's probably more than 5 orders of magnitude
               | difference between throwing an apple core into the woods
               | and a city's worth of sewage, but both are organic waste.
               | I think the analogy is fairly sound.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | Huge constellations with stable orbits under active
               | control are irrelevant. It's really the a pair of
               | uncontrolled satellites colliding that's a meaningful
               | risk, and that risk grows exponentially with age. To the
               | point where the difference between 1 day and 1 year is
               | effectively meaningless while the difference between 5
               | years and 50 years is huge.
        
               | mikeyouse wrote:
               | If we're launching 15k satellites per year as some people
               | expect, the difference between 1 day deorbit and 5 years
               | deorbit is something like 75,000 satellites.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | If the risk of collisions in both scenarios is sub
               | 0.0001%, is it a meaningful difference? Very quickly the
               | risk is dominated by being launched into the wrong orbit.
        
               | s1artibartfast wrote:
               | yes, but if deorbiting in years is sufficient, the
               | difference in time is not relevant.
        
               | mikeyouse wrote:
               | What? Starlink eventually wants 40,000 satellites - with
               | 5 year lifetimes that'll be 8,000 per year... there are
               | numerous other planned constellations, so figure
               | something like 15,000 LEO per year within a few decades.
               | 
               | 15k satellites per year with a 5 year lifespan and a
               | 1-year decay means you'll be stable at 75k satellites. 5
               | year lifespan with a 3-year decay means you'll eventually
               | be stable at over 100k satellites in orbit with 30,000 of
               | them 'dead' and decaying. That's a massive difference in
               | collision risk.
        
               | bisby wrote:
               | The rule is 5 years. You've given 2 examples under 5
               | years. If everything is going to re-enter within 5 years
               | without boosting then your point is moot, because even in
               | your "massively more collision risky" example, it still
               | abides by the rules.
               | 
               | If something was going to deorbit within 1 minute, or was
               | going to deorbit within 4 years, 6 months... It doesn't
               | matter to the creator, because they don't have to change
               | their design at all to meet the rules.
               | 
               | If something was going to deorbit within 8 years (because
               | they previously had a 25 year allowed limit), they now
               | have to rework the design.
               | 
               | There's plenty of room for debate about if 5 years is
               | adequate, but as it stands, _most_ things (under 500km)
               | will naturally deorbit within the legal time frame anyway
               | even without special consideration.
        
               | mikeyouse wrote:
               | Just responding to a comment that said "If deorbiting in
               | years is sufficient, the difference in time is not
               | relevant" where it's obviously relevant.. this doesn't
               | seem remotely controversial.
        
               | s1artibartfast wrote:
               | Let me put this another way, if I use my computer to send
               | emails, it doesn't matter to me if my ping is 10
               | milliseconds or 10 femtoseconds.
               | 
               | One time is 10^12 times longer, but the difference does
               | not matter to me. My emails are still sent and received
               | faster than I can possibly perceived.
        
               | bisby wrote:
               | You're arguing a different thing. The topic was satellite
               | design for satellites under 450km.
               | 
               | If deorbiting in years is sufficient, the difference in 1
               | minute vs 4 years is NOT relevant -> to a satellite
               | builder worried about the law.
               | 
               | If everything deorbits within 5 years, the only way for
               | more things to accumulate is to launch things faster. But
               | that's a separate discussion. If everything launched
               | today is deorbited within 5 years, then in 5 years, all
               | satellites will be new satellites launched after today.
               | If everything launched today is deorbited within 5
               | months, then in 5 years, all satellites will be new
               | satellites launched after today. Deorbit speed under a
               | threshold has no bearing on accumulation beyond that
               | threshold.
               | 
               | If SpaceX launches a trillion Starlink satellites, and
               | they all deorbit within a year, then yes. it's going to
               | be a very crowded year, and we'll have to drastically
               | rethink how much stuff we have in LEO, but at the same
               | time SpaceX would not be in violation of the 5 year
               | deorbit window, so the issue is about how much stuff
               | we're sending up, and not how fast it de-orbits.
               | 
               | "Amount of junk below 450km, total" and "Amount of junk
               | below 450km, that hasn't deorbited after 5 years" are
               | very different things. You're making points about total,
               | while the original point was about deorbit speed.
        
               | s1artibartfast wrote:
               | >That's a massive difference in collision risk.
               | 
               | Is it? It's a big difference in absolute numbers but that
               | doesn't mean it's a meaningful difference in Risk.
               | 
               | If both numbers are quite small relative to the level of
               | concern, the difference can still be irrelevant.
               | 
               | My point is that it takes more than just looking at the
               | number of satilites to understand risk. You need to do
               | the work to show how the collision chance compares to
               | what an acceptable limit might be. Both cases could be
               | very acceptable (or both cases could be unacceptable).
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | In this case it's policy reflecting Little's Law:
           | population = arrival rate X duration of visit
           | 
           | If suddenly someone wants to launch twice as many satellites,
           | you either have to reduce tenancy or accept a higher
           | population in the system. If you have a policy that's at most
           | 25 years and a lot of satellites de-orbit in say 15 years on
           | average, you can still triple your launches by pulling that
           | down to 5.
           | 
           | I am worried though, do we really build satellites that are
           | expected to only work for 5 years? Are we disincentivizing
           | people from building 20 year satellites this way?
        
             | Fatnino wrote:
             | I assume it means deorbit within 5 years after the
             | satellite is decommissioned.
        
             | ntrz wrote:
             | The article says "5 years after completing their mission",
             | not 5 years after launch.
        
               | hahajk wrote:
               | time to assign 25 year missions to satellites built to
               | last 10 years!
        
           | MichaelCollins wrote:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQT5aMa_7iI
           | 
           | "Gabbard Diagram for Low Earth Orbit 1959-2021"
           | 
           | See how the stuff in the lower left corner speeds up towards
           | the lower left corner? That's low flying debris falling out
           | of space.
        
             | wpietri wrote:
             | I am generally allergic to video, but that was fascinating
             | to watch. Thanks for sharing it.
        
           | rzimmerman wrote:
           | I didn't mean to imply orbit debris isn't a real problem. But
           | for the low end of LEO:
           | 
           | - Most debris deorbits naturally in a few years. Any debris
           | causing events or accumulation naturally clears out in a
           | reasonable time frame. It's not like debris at 800-2000km
           | which is the real "Kessler Syndrome" concern where it takes
           | decades or centuries.
           | 
           | - Debris mitigation efforts that are already in place are
           | effective. Limiting debris release during launch and
           | deployments has had a huge positive impact over the last few
           | decades.
           | 
           | - "Traffic control" is a lot easier at these altitudes and
           | debris in this range is well tracked. Obviously this doesn't
           | extend to small stuff (<5cm), but due to active mitigation
           | and natural decay this is less of an issue. Also ground
           | radars are getting better and can actually see a lot of these
           | objects now.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | How high can the debris loft after a particularly nasty
         | collision?
         | 
         | Two satellites hitting at an acute angle should produce a cone
         | of debris in front of them, of which about a third deorbits and
         | a third goes up into a higher orbit that's an average of the
         | two.
         | 
         | Two satellites that hit at an obtuse angle, well, they pancake
         | and produce a donut of debris. The stuff headed straight up is
         | on a parabolic orbit that will hit the atmosphere on the way
         | back down, but in the meantime any other satellite that crosses
         | paths with it is effectively hitting a wall of stationary
         | debris, creating a new cone that ladders up higher. Is there
         | enough space that the ladder stops, or does it just keep
         | building?
        
           | FairlyInvolved wrote:
           | I don't think debris 'going higher' isn't much of a problem.
           | Whenever this happens the orbit is going to be more eccentric
           | - meaning a lower periapsis, and consequentially lots of drag
           | that will cause a rapid deorbit.
           | 
           | On the second point about parabolic orbits I also find that
           | probably relatively low risk because we are only talking
           | about a fraction of an orbit for a collision to occur so
           | unless the debris field was massive the chance of another
           | collision is probably still low. Remember when we are
           | modelling orbit collisions normally we are often talking over
           | 25+ years - 100,000 + orbits.
           | 
           | I think the main problem is busy orbits (e.g. sun-synchronous
           | polar orbits at popular altitudes) where most of the debris
           | remains roughly in the same orbit following an acute
           | collision but has a lot of other potential collision targets.
           | Also as satellites are disabled by a collision they lose the
           | ability to avoid other objects already in the same crowded
           | orbit - i.e. the fraction of objects able to take avoidance
           | decreases increasing the chance that future collisions are
           | from 2 incapacitated satellites, removing the possibility of
           | avoidance.
        
           | jessaustin wrote:
           | Angular momentum is subject to a conservation law.
        
       | exabrial wrote:
       | It's a bit weird the FCC is ruling on this... not really a space
       | agency... but regardless, it's a good move!
        
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       (page generated 2022-09-30 23:00 UTC)