[HN Gopher] RootMyTV is a user-friendly exploit for rooting/jail...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       RootMyTV is a user-friendly exploit for rooting/jailbreaking LG
       webOS smart TVs
        
       Author : thunderbong
       Score  : 567 points
       Date   : 2022-09-29 04:08 UTC (18 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | marcodiego wrote:
       | Great! Now we have a reason to buy a smartTV.
        
       | porbelm wrote:
       | Will this make my TV able to remember input settings for the HDMI
       | ports? It resets if the device is unplugged, and it's really
       | annoying to have to go to the settings and change the HDMI2 input
       | to "PC" every time I plug in the laptop.
       | 
       | (The TV only uses chroma 4:4:4 when the input is set to PC mode)
        
         | deergomoo wrote:
         | I'm currently travelling so I can't remember exactly what it's
         | called, but there is a setting on the stock firmware for this
         | (at least there is on my C1). I think it's called "device
         | recognition" or something like that.
         | 
         | Basically it will stop it auto-switching the "device mode" for
         | a source; I use it to keep one input permanently on game mode.
        
       | lots2learn wrote:
       | I bought an expensive LG Oled a few months back and was quite
       | annoyed that every time my kids would turn it on, they were
       | greeted with an ad depicting Peter Griffin in a thong lying on a
       | beach. It was crass intending to be humorous; typical Seth
       | McFarlane fare. The ads on the home screen are a very worrisome
       | indication of where smart consumer products are headed. This root
       | is cool, but I accomplished what I needed by blocking all the LG
       | ad URLs in my router. You can find the list by some simple
       | Googling.
        
         | bluejekyll wrote:
         | I got a new LG C2, hooked an AppleTV up to it, the AppleTV
         | turns on the TV and it goes straight to the AppleTV Home
         | Screen, when you turn off the AppleTV, the TV turns off (with a
         | slightly annoying "LG: Life is good message"), and no, I've
         | never connected it to the internet.
         | 
         | Using it basically as a dumb screen seems fine so far.
        
           | dev_tty01 wrote:
           | Yes, this. Never connect a TV to the internet. Apple TV (or
           | whatever you prefer) and the TV as HDMI monitor only.
           | Firmware updates with USB stick. If it won't work like that,
           | take it back.
        
             | RDaneel0livaw wrote:
             | Exactly this! I have the same lg oled and I love it. I
             | don't think I've ever even seen the native ui (maybe when I
             | first unboxed it?). I've never connected it to the
             | internet, and don't ever plan on updating anything. What
             | would a firmware update for a dumb monitor even do?
        
               | dev_tty01 wrote:
               | My VISIO had what I believe was a memory leak. After a
               | few weeks it would start getting random white streaks on
               | the screen. After unplugging and restarting, the problem
               | disappears for a few weeks. Firmware update eventually
               | fixed it. So, yeah, sometimes a dumb monitor needs a
               | firmware update. I would think a robot as smart as Daneel
               | would have known that... :-)
        
               | miles2sleep wrote:
               | That sounds like a great way to encourage users to
               | connect it to Internet. Increasingly degrade the video
               | and audio quality slowly (and randomly) over time while
               | no internet connection is available. Part of the support
               | script should be to advise the user to connect to
               | Internet so that updates can be downloaded to "fix" the
               | issue.
        
           | bdcravens wrote:
           | We bought a C2. We went with DirecTV Stream, which oddly
           | there is (or was) no app for on the LG, but there is on the
           | cheaper Samsung in my office. (both Android based) Got
           | DirecTV's streaming box, which boots directly into their
           | service (so no bouncing around in apps for our everyday
           | watching) but also supports the usual third-party apps as
           | well. It's also uses a simpler remote which is nice.
        
             | seemack wrote:
             | The LG OS is not Android-based. LG bought WebOS from HP
             | many moons ago and adapted it for televisions.
        
               | bdcravens wrote:
               | Actually I think I'm wrong on both accounts, as my
               | Samsung TV runs Tizen, not Android. I believe I was
               | thinking about the old FireTV that I put on the C2 at
               | first, as well as the DirecTV Stream device, which both
               | run variations of Android.
        
           | nullfield wrote:
           | Hit the mute button three times and get a useful little menu;
           | turn off the logo if you don't like it.
        
           | jwmoz wrote:
           | I had no idea this was an issue, tv ads? I'm about to buy a
           | new tv for new home. So go-to is buy any new tv but just use
           | Apple TV box instead, and this box is worthwhile?
        
             | colpabar wrote:
             | Yep. Your options are to buy a dumb TV or just make sure
             | whatever TV you do buy doesn't ever connect to the
             | internet, and use an external device to get the content to
             | the screen. There are ads everywhere now.
        
             | themadturk wrote:
             | Roku is just as effective as an Apple TV (and cheaper).
             | Both devices connect to the Internet and feed HDMI to the
             | TV.
        
           | lancesells wrote:
           | I do the same on my Sony TV and it's great. Unfortunately
           | there will probably be a day in the not-so-distant future
           | where that AppleTV has ads. It's probably the same day I
           | start a collection of Blu-Rays.
        
             | dawnerd wrote:
             | Apple tv already has ads, but they're at least relevant and
             | not in your face trash that the other companies use. Really
             | it's more like a showcase.
        
           | akerr wrote:
           | Same here. To disable the logo, press mute 3 times to bring
           | up a secret menu.
        
             | bluejekyll wrote:
             | Need to look at that. Any other options on the "secret"
             | menu?
        
               | dhritzkiv wrote:
               | IIRC, the only other useful one is whether the light on
               | the front should be off all the time. There are a few
               | other options, but they felt more diagnostic
        
             | OGWhales wrote:
             | If the menu doesn't pop up, try switching to an input
             | source without a signal and then pressing mute 3 times.
             | That worked for me.
        
         | ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
         | NextDNS is also a great help here.
        
         | wvenable wrote:
         | I have a slightly older LG OLED and I don't get any ads -- I
         | just haven't accepted any of their policy checkboxes and that
         | seems to keep things at bay. There some very minor features
         | (Alexa integration) that don't work but everything else works
         | fine.
        
           | speeder wrote:
           | I have a C!, and didn't accept the policies either.
           | 
           | This worked for a while to prevent ads, but now the ads
           | ignore the policies and show up anyway, and they became
           | really obnoxious, including the notification system sometimes
           | showing ads while you are using the TV.
        
         | fibers wrote:
         | Peter Griffin lying on the beach wearing a thong is the most
         | American thing ever. I don't understand why you are upset.
        
         | arkh wrote:
         | I use an nVidia Shield and a TV as a dumb one. It was really
         | good until Google decided all Android TV devices would have to
         | use their bad UI with their homepage full of ads.
        
           | faluzure wrote:
           | I used to love my nVidia shield.
           | 
           | First it was a Disney+ ad, then it was a Tim Hortons ad.
           | 
           | It's gotten so slow I'm planning to replace it in the near
           | future, probably with something from Apple.
        
           | bedast wrote:
           | Used Nvidia Shield TV since the first gen until the ads
           | started getting really bad and taking up most of the
           | screenspace. That was a very quick way to convert me to an
           | AppleTV user. I know you can replace the launcher on the
           | Shield TV/AndroidTV, but the process is non-trivial and I
           | didn't feel like dealing with it. In my experience, when you
           | have to hack things to make it work, it presents problems
           | later on.
        
           | nirav72 wrote:
           | You should look into swapping out the default google
           | launcher. Which will remove the ads, remove all suggested
           | content and declutter the main screen. Tons of videos out
           | there showing how to do that on android tv.
        
             | takoid wrote:
             | I highly recommend FLauncher: https://play.google.com/store
             | /apps/details?id=me.efesser.fla...
        
               | arkh wrote:
               | Thanks for the recommendation. I'll try it this evening.
        
         | balls187 wrote:
         | Did you enable Google services on your oled?
         | 
         | I haven't seen any ads on my tv, but Google is disabled along
         | with personalization services.
         | 
         | Mine is an older set tho--LGC9 series.
        
       | coldcode wrote:
       | Is it really all that hard to build a TV designed to be used only
       | with a separate device (Apple TV, Roku, etc)? I wonder why no one
       | has started a company to do this; perhaps VCs only want to fund
       | people who make money with ads.
        
       | hsnewman wrote:
       | This looks interesting, I may try it if there is a picture in
       | picture ability (LG removed that from mine).
        
       | metadat wrote:
       | It looks like the Homebrew channel adds support for a Jellyfin
       | app!
       | 
       | If I were willing to connect my LG TV to the network, I'd be all
       | over this.
        
         | itsyaboi wrote:
         | Would assigning the TV a static IP and blocking all outside
         | traffic to/from it do the trick?
        
           | metadat wrote:
           | Yes, if you assign it to a VLAN without internet access.
           | 
           | More trouble than it's worth, imho. I'll just keep casting
           | from my laptop to the Google TV dongle.
        
       | pipeline_peak wrote:
       | It's pretty unfortunate that we've come to needing software
       | injections to get rid of ads plastered on home owned TVs.
       | 
       | Remember to unplug your brain dongle before going to bed.
        
       | l33tbro wrote:
       | > RootMyTV
       | 
       | This will go well in Australia.
        
       | glerk wrote:
       | I really don't understand what the point of a "smart tv" is. Why
       | aren't you just plugging your computer into a screen and using
       | your own OS?
        
         | kreddor wrote:
         | I would love a modern "non-smart" tv, but do they even exist?
         | 
         | It's the reason why I stick to my Sony Bravia from 2009 until
         | it dies.
        
           | mrweasel wrote:
           | At some point I asked here on HN. I got sent to a Romanian
           | online electronics retailer. Apparently there's a pretty nice
           | selection of non-smart TVs in Romania.
        
           | 867-5309 wrote:
           | in the UK there is a manufacturer called Cello who make non-
           | smart variants of their smart TVs. I got their 50" 4K dumb tv
           | for around PS250
        
           | UncleSlacky wrote:
           | Sceptre sell them, at least in the US:
           | https://www.sceptre.com/
        
         | jraph wrote:
         | It's so you can watch YouTube and Netflix without plugging a
         | computer.
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | The real point: so you don't have control of your tv and things
         | on it can be directed in the financial interest of the people
         | who "sold" it to you.
         | 
         | The other point: There's not really an easy PC solution. The
         | closest you can get to one is Kodi, and in my opinion it is
         | bad. Not that they haven't put an enormous amount of work into
         | it, but the UI is very unpleasant. Their idea of what people
         | want out of a television interface is violently different than
         | mine, and the configuration is absurdly opaque.
        
         | badlucklottery wrote:
         | For non-technical users, having one UI with all their streaming
         | apps built-in is honestly a useful feature. The problem is all
         | the other spying, hijacking, slowdowns, and other bullshit. But
         | it's often a desirable feature for many users at its core.
         | 
         | For a technical user: the smarts often serve no point, we
         | already have a streaming solution. Unfortunately, higher end
         | TVs with OLED panels and the such come with "smarts" built-in.
         | So the best you can do is ignore it and hope the firmware
         | updates (that you install over USB because you don't trust it
         | with a wifi connection) don't cause a ton of UI slowdown over
         | time or otherwise cripple the TV. But if we could buy a dumb TV
         | with the same features, we would.
        
         | satysin wrote:
         | Most people I know don't have a PC or don't have a PC they can
         | easily connect to a TV as it is in another room and not easily
         | moved.
         | 
         | For those that do, such as those with a laptop, they don't want
         | the inconvenience of connecting it to the TV to open up Netflix
         | to watch The Crown.
        
         | beardyw wrote:
         | Generally speaking "smart" means "quickly becoming obsolete".
         | Cars a few years old now have built in unwanted/unusable
         | satnavs.
        
         | Jaxan wrote:
         | I don't want to connect my laptop, because my kids might break
         | it. Having just a tv with limited control is perfect for kids.
        
         | daveoc64 wrote:
         | I have two LG Smart TVs with webOS.
         | 
         | While both TVs have a PC connected, it's far easier to use the
         | built-in apps to watch things like YouTube and Netflix.
         | 
         | The apps support 4K without any fuss (which is often locked
         | away on desktop OSes due to DRM).
         | 
         | The LG magic remote is pretty cool, it works a bit like a Wii
         | remote, so you can quickly point to things on-screen.
        
         | alkonaut wrote:
         | There is little point if you have a smartphone and chromecast.
         | But a built in chromecast, or built in airplay video receiver
         | _is_ convenient. Few people have (or want) a dedicated PC to
         | use with their TV.
         | 
         | The reason technical people (even those few that do have a pc
         | connected to it) will, and should, buy smart TV's is because
         | they are the most widely sold and therefore by far the best
         | screen for the money. Large computer monitors or signage
         | screens aren't as good or cheap as the most sold smart tv in
         | the most sold size. They are extremely good for the price. If
         | you don't want to use any smart features, most should work
         | fairly well when operated without internet and just connected
         | to an external input.
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | > Few people have (or want) a dedicated PC to use with their
           | TV.
           | 
           | They have one though, so technical people shouldn't entertain
           | the direct-to-consumer lie that smart TVs aren't crippled and
           | locked-down general purpose computers.
        
             | alkonaut wrote:
             | I don't mind my TV being another computer, and the other
             | computers I want to use with it are probably only my iPhone
             | and Chromecast (incidentally also locked down general
             | purpose ARM computers).
             | 
             | The last thing I would want even as a tech savvy person is
             | to use a desktop or laptop with a TV in any way.
        
       | blitzar wrote:
       | In Australia _rooting_ your TV means something different from
       | this, if it goes wrong the result will also be that you can say
       | _my TV is rooted_.
        
         | simbas wrote:
         | What does it mean?
        
       | H1Supreme wrote:
       | Oh man, I'd love to do this to my Vizio. I honestly don't even
       | care that they show ads. It's when they shut off Netflix or Hulu
       | while I'm in the middle of movie to show me an ad. Which, takes
       | me to the home screen when I close it (not back to my show). Or,
       | freezes the TV while attempting to show an ad, and forces me to
       | cycle the power to get it to come on again.
        
       | jgaa wrote:
        
         | satysin wrote:
         | This is the most Hacker News comment I've read in a while.
         | 
         | Also would love to know how you are doing Dolby Vision playback
         | for example as I've never found a reliable way to do Dolby
         | Vision on Windows, macOS or Linux.
        
           | bscphil wrote:
           | > how you are doing Dolby Vision playback
           | 
           | mpv can now decode most of the spec if you want a software
           | player; if you want to passthrough the DV metadata to your
           | TV, still no luck on PC AFAIK. I believe the approach most
           | take is using an Android TV device (e.g. Nvidia Shield),
           | where various apps are able to do it because there's native
           | support. Kodi, Plex, etc, can do it on the Shield.
        
           | jgaa wrote:
        
             | satysin wrote:
             | I think the needless insult at the very start of your
             | comment is why it is being downvoted.
             | 
             | You make valid points but your language makes people not
             | want to listen to you.
        
               | jgaa wrote:
               | This is how hackers speak ;)
               | 
               | Hacker in the old meaning; someone who knows computers
               | well, not someone who exploit this knowledge for greed.
               | 
               | When I bought my first computer, a VIC 20, I got so
               | hooked that I hardly slept for several weeks. In that
               | time I learned Basic, figured out software design and
               | wrote my first application, a word processor. My next
               | interesting application, ready a few years later was a
               | multi-user BBS written in C for the QNX operating system.
               | I know hackers from that time with skills magnitudes
               | better than mine - and the all sound like that. If people
               | on "Hacker News" can't tolerate hacker speak, then either
               | they, or the hackers, don't really belong here.
        
               | defrost wrote:
               | <yawn>
               | 
               | Mine was a Commodore PET (VIC 20 precursor), while I
               | worked with PDP-11 and CDC Cyber machines on the side ..
               | you don't speak for a generation and you could use some
               | manners.
        
               | jgaa wrote:
               | > while I worked with PDP-11
               | 
               | One of the few things in life I really feel depressed
               | about, is never getting the opportunity to work with one
               | of those.
               | 
               | > you don't speak for a generation
               | 
               | I speak only for my self, and in this thread only of my
               | own direct experiences.
               | 
               | My experiences from working with some really
               | extraordinary people (hackers, editors, adventurers) is
               | that they are often anything but nice on the surface.
               | When you speak, you can speak to please, or you can be
               | honest. You can be dull, or you can use rhetoric to spice
               | up your points. Personally, I find dishonest people
               | despicable and dull people boring ;)
        
               | sph wrote:
               | So a real life version of
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02a723LsoFA
        
               | sph wrote:
               | This is not how hackers speak. Or are the non-insulting
               | ones less hacker than yourself?
               | 
               | Learning how to be a decent person ain't harder than
               | learning to use a computer.
        
               | jgaa wrote:
               | > This is not how hackers speak.
               | 
               | Well, sometimes I don't speak like this. I can be dull
               | and boring and polite and say all the right tings; when
               | I'm surrounded by snowflakes and people without any
               | original toughs.
               | 
               | > Learning how to be a decent person ain't harder than
               | learning to use a computer.
               | 
               | Being a decent person is actually quite hard to learn,
               | and even harder to practice. Being polite and
               | /pretending/ to be a decent person, is something any
               | idiot can manage.
        
         | p1necone wrote:
         | I assume people don't buy "dumb" TVs because they basically
         | don't exist any more, outside of industrial/commercial screens
         | that cost way more than an equivalent consumer TV or PC
         | monitors that cap out at about 32". I'm curious which option
         | you went with?
         | 
         | I just use a regular Samsung smart TV, but I use a Chromecast +
         | PS5 instead of the smart features and have never connected it
         | to the internet. If there were viable "dumb" tv options I would
         | totally prefer them though.
        
           | jgaa wrote:
           | I went to a local store (I'm in EU) and asked the salesperson
           | "what's your biggest 4k, dumb TV?" It happened to be a 49"
           | NEO. So that's what I have at the moment. When it's time to
           | change it, I will try the same thing again. If that fails,
           | I'll either get a "hotel TV", a really big PC monitor or a 5k
           | projector.
        
         | sph wrote:
         | Yours would be a good comment if not for that unnecessary
         | insult in the first line. Stop doing that.
        
           | jgaa wrote:
        
         | pbasista wrote:
         | One of the reasons might be that there are no non-smart TVs
         | with the same kind of features available. For instance, I am
         | unsure whether there are non-smart large OLED TVs.
         | 
         | Also, price of a TV with "smart" features typically does not
         | differ much from a price of a similar TV with only non-smart
         | features. So, people buy them because they are getting
         | something extra at little additional cost.
         | 
         | Of course one can create a DIY smart setup with any TV. But
         | given that many people already have a TV with a capable
         | hardware, it is in my opinion only natural that they want to
         | turn it into a proper smart TV simply by changing its software,
         | rather than by buying a smart PC, adding cables, etc.
        
       | badrabbit wrote:
       | I have been declining to update my tv since this tool came out
       | until I get time to try and exploit my tv. Kudos to the author!
       | Also, LG not being android based is nice!
        
       | delackner wrote:
       | Maybe someone here will know how to fix this:
       | 
       | I turned off internet access in my LG WebOS TV settings. On power
       | on, it has no audio for about 5s and then the display blanks,
       | shows LG Logo, and then finally is fully awake. Is there a
       | solution?
        
       | scandinavian wrote:
       | Please note that it doesn't work on current versions. One of the
       | maintainers said back in July that they were working on a new
       | exploit chain to be release in a month, but no news after that.
        
         | laurencei wrote:
         | So if I've already upgraded my LG Tv to the latest version, I
         | cant rollback and jailbreak?
        
           | romland wrote:
           | There are alternative ways of rooting latest version, but it
           | involves a bit of manual work instead of just sliding.
           | 
           | One such is 'the crashd exploit', you can find instructions
           | for that in the OpenLGTV Discord.
        
       | ratsz wrote:
       | Mainly I just want something like FLauncher as the default home
       | screen and have it open the TV apps from there.
        
       | pabs3 wrote:
       | If Software Freedom Conservancy win their lawsuit against Vizio
       | for GPL violations in their TVs, and similar lawsuits reach LG
       | webOS TVs, then RootMyTV will be helpful for replacing the LG
       | webOS with open source Linux distros with Kodi or KDE Plasma
       | Bigscreen. Allowing the vendor operating system to remain on the
       | device after you purchase it basically means ads/spyware these
       | days.
       | 
       | https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html
        
         | kmlx wrote:
         | > Allowing the vendor operating system to remain on the device
         | after you purchase it basically means ads/spyware these days.
         | 
         | i don't know about this, but what i do know is that WebOS on LG
         | is miles ahead of any PC, Chromecast, Apple TV etc etc
        
           | kwanbix wrote:
           | Miles ahead how? It sucks. It looses wifi all the time and I
           | have to do a crazy change on settings. I got tired and got a
           | Fire TV Max. No more problems.
        
           | mkmk3 wrote:
           | Miles ahead in what sense? Swiss army knife of shit you dont
           | need is sometimes inferior to just having a small PC if it
           | suits you better. Feel like itd enable more control and
           | privacy
        
         | VWWHFSfQ wrote:
         | My experience with the open source TV software is that they're
         | all buggy and terrible. I don't really want to be tech support
         | for people in my family complaining the TV doesn't work because
         | the software is janky. I'll just keep the Roku TV software and
         | do some DNS blocking and that will be fine.
        
       | maxfurman wrote:
       | Anyone know of a similar tool for Roku TVs? I have the same
       | complaints as everyone else. A PiHole used to be an effective way
       | to keep the ads down but they've found a way to get around it.
        
         | sphars wrote:
         | I don't know if it'll help, but I've been using NextDNS [0] to
         | block ads on my Roku TV (and general network-wide adblocking).
         | In the NextDNS dashboard, there is a setting under Privacy >
         | Native Tracking Protection that has an option to block Roku
         | trackers. According to their source code [1], I think it just
         | blocks logs.roku.com, but works for me.
         | 
         | Additionally, there was another Roku domain that I blocked at
         | the router level that also helped (I think it was something
         | like scribe.roku.com, but can't confirm until later today).
         | 
         | [0]: https://nextdns.io
         | 
         | [1]:
         | https://github.com/nextdns/metadata/blob/master/privacy/nati...
        
       | rs_rs_rs_rs_rs wrote:
       | You don't really need to jailbreak your LG tv to install custom
       | apps(like adfree Youtube), you can just put it in developer mode
       | and have a cron somewhere(I use Pipedream) that keeps activating
       | developer mode every 24h or so(it deactivate itself every 48h)
        
         | Gormo wrote:
         | So instead of just removing the root cause of the problem,
         | you'd rather leave the problem in place and then maintain a
         | permanent workaround that has to run someplace else?
        
           | rs_rs_rs_rs_rs wrote:
           | Yes, the "permanent workaround" is literally permanent, it
           | works all the time while the jailbreak solution works only
           | when the vulnerabilities are not patched by LG.
           | 
           | I also prefer keeping my tv software up to date with
           | patching, I don't want to jailbreak and keep the tv software
           | at the specific vulnerable version.
        
         | zdware wrote:
         | > You don't really need to jailbreak your LG tv to install
         | custom apps(like adfree Youtube), you can just put it in
         | developer mode and have a cron somewhere(I use Pipedream) that
         | keeps activating developer mode every 24h or so(it deactivate
         | itself every 48h)
         | 
         | I've been doing this as well. I love the idea of rooting but
         | not being able to get system updates bugs me a bit.
        
       | julianlam wrote:
       | > Around June-July 2021 LG started rolling out updates which
       | added some minor mitigations that broke our original exploit
       | chain.
       | 
       | It's a damn shame companies feel incentivised to do this.
       | 
       | People hacking on their own TVs is quite literally a victimless
       | crime (besides yourself, if you brick your one TV), because you
       | knowingly void the warranty.
       | 
       | Mazdas have a great third-party firmware called Mazda AIO
       | Tweaks[0] that fixes a whole host of bugs and allows you to
       | customize the infotainment system. The best part is you can use
       | it to enable Android Auto on older Mazdas (this was before AA was
       | even released for Mazda!)
       | 
       | Mazda then proceeded to lock down the firmware so much you now
       | need to take apart some consoles and attach a serial connection.
       | Disgusting behaviour.
       | 
       | (vis-a-vis plugging in an SD card with the scripts you want to
       | run.)
       | 
       | [0] https://mazdatweaks.com/
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | These exploits should certainly be fixed, they're security
         | holes which can let malware into the TV. The same exploit that
         | lets us root our TV would also allow anyone else to root it.
         | 
         | On the other hand, the ability to physically flash our own
         | software into any hardware we buy should be a basic consumer
         | right. There should be no need for exploits in the first place,
         | it should be a built in feature.
        
           | salawat wrote:
           | You will never have both, however, the "consumer can flash
           | hardware" one guarantees a remedy to any malfeasant software.
           | The other incents learned helplessness.
        
           | EMIRELADERO wrote:
           | > These exploits should certainly be fixed, they're security
           | holes which can let malware into the TV. The same exploit
           | that lets us root our TV would also allow anyone else to root
           | it.
           | 
           | What dangers are there for TVs in terms of malware? This
           | isn't a phone or a computer which holds sensitive
           | information. The very worst that could be done would be to
           | steal your streaming service session cookies.
        
             | jiveturkey wrote:
             | some TVs came with cameras, for gesture based remote
             | control.
             | 
             | yes, it was found that the cameras were abused.
             | 
             | or what if the malware took screenshots of what you were
             | watching every so often? oh wait, that was also found to be
             | a built-in "feature".
             | 
             | otherwise, they are a foothold onto the rest of your
             | internal LAN, possibly with other more vital IoT devices
             | ready to be compromised, or at least serve as a botnet army
        
         | georgyo wrote:
         | I mostly agree with you. I too like to actually own my
         | hardware.
         | 
         | However, another angle to view it is that these are huge
         | security vulnerabilities. Visiting a webpage on your TV to
         | install a custom firmware could also be used for great evil as
         | well.
         | 
         | So letting this huge holes exist is not that great, but there
         | should be an easier on path for people who want their own
         | custom firmware.
         | 
         | I think Google phones do a good job here. It's nearly
         | impossible to accidentally flash your phone with an unsigned
         | firmware, but you can also unlock the boot loader and do
         | whatever you want.
        
           | nobodyandproud wrote:
           | The security angle is also the way to legislate this stuff
           | away.
        
           | cesarb wrote:
           | > It's nearly impossible to accidentally flash your phone
           | with an unsigned firmware, but you can also unlock the boot
           | loader and do whatever you want.
           | 
           | From what I have heard, that "whatever you want" excludes
           | important things like banking apps.
        
         | Gormo wrote:
         | > People hacking on their own TVs is quite literally a
         | victimless crime (besides yourself, if you brick your one TV),
         | because you knowingly void the warranty.
         | 
         | Nitpick: it's not a victimless crime, on account of not being a
         | crime at all.
        
         | delecti wrote:
         | > It's a damn shame companies feel incentivised to do this.
         | 
         | There are other comments in this thread talking about disabling
         | ads. The companies are financially incentivized to keep those
         | ads running.
         | 
         | Though on the flip side, I consider ads even more reason to
         | demand full control over my hardware.
        
         | dahfizz wrote:
         | Worth noting that in the Mazda case, unlocking Android auto in
         | the 2014-2018 cars is a paid upgrade you can do at the dealer.
         | 
         | So, the incentives there are a lot clearer.
        
       | chaostheory wrote:
       | I don't see the point because it's dangerous connecting a TV to
       | the internet. Using open firmware like this also adds the chance
       | that you can brick your TV
       | 
       | I don't understand why people don't stream using a separate box.
       | There are plenty of options which perform much better than the
       | under resourced built-in streamers inside cheap televisions
        
       | wodenokoto wrote:
       | It's usually Samsung people talk about with regards to spying on
       | Smart TV, and reports saying they send regular screenshots home
       | for analysis.
       | 
       | I don't know if LG does the same, but in terms on ads in the
       | display I ... never really found it to be anything.
       | 
       | I sold my 55" LG OLED highend model last year when moving, but
       | except for a "recommended app"-showing on the main menu I don't
       | recall any nag-ware. I also found the smart TV features to beat
       | most, if not all, dedicated boxes in speed and usability and
       | preferred it to Apple TV.
        
         | victortroz wrote:
         | What bothers me most on the Samsung TVs is that there are ads
         | in the menu. It's one thing to see ads in a website or other
         | content that is "free" and need to be monetized. But a TV in
         | which I paid for doesn't make any sense.
        
           | Psychotherapist wrote:
           | The argument often made here is that the tv is being sold
           | cheaper and then the value lost is made up with ads. My
           | Samsung TV was pretty cheap compared to others but I just
           | pointed it at my Pi-Hole and don't have that annoying ad
           | anymore.
        
           | asimilator wrote:
           | Makes sense for Samsung. :(
        
             | nickcox wrote:
             | Microsoft Windows also does this.
        
         | type0 wrote:
         | Given how bad Samsung is at protecting user data, this is
         | basically a Trojan with similar consequences.
        
         | cornedor wrote:
         | I have a Samsung TV but don't use the smart features. I was
         | annoyed by the ads to because it would also change the order
         | when switching devices. Furthermore, I found online that not
         | accepting the privacy terms would remove all apps and ads, this
         | indeed works great.
        
         | sofixa wrote:
         | Same, there are no ads on my LG TV that i can see, unless the
         | occasional recommended app (which at least on one occasion, for
         | Stadia, also told me I'll have a free few months if i sign up
         | now).
        
           | yuuu wrote:
           | Yeah, that's an ad.
        
         | werid wrote:
         | bottom left corner of the app menu had an HBO / House of the
         | Dragon ad when that show launched a few weeks ago.
        
         | satysin wrote:
         | LG webOS is still one of the better experiences on smart TVs
         | for sure. It is generally smooth with good app support and
         | experience and like you said limited built in ads.
         | 
         | While not perfect it is the system I like the most if I have to
         | use a smart TV. I do still prefer an Apple TV 4K though.
        
           | IshKebab wrote:
           | Damn if webOS is one of the best I would hate to see the
           | others. I find it to be laggy and poorly laid out.
        
           | dryfish wrote:
           | I had been keeping my LD up-to-date but with each new update
           | there was an additional service with its own privacy
           | agreement with a name I'd never heard of.
           | 
           | Now all smart functionality is via the Apple TV.
        
         | jwmoz wrote:
         | Hmm that's interesting, there's a guy above saying the exact
         | opposite. I'm about to buy a new tv and this is something I
         | never considered.
        
       | ptsneves wrote:
       | I do build systems and specifically yocto. I understood that LG
       | used yocto for webOS build. Can i just use yocto to build a
       | toolchain and package a more recent version of the web browser?
       | The shipped one is outrageously out of date and mostly does not
       | work. The apps in the store all seem quite minimal.
        
       | esskay wrote:
       | I wish more projects existed like this for other manufacturers.
       | It really bugs me that you buy a "smart" tv knowing full well
       | they've already dropped support for it and wont release anything
       | other than essential bug fixes.
       | 
       | Hisense TV's suffer from this massively (the ones running VIDAA).
        
       | TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
       | Lobotomize my TV.
       | 
       | Or yours.
       | 
       | My TV was a AU$420 42" LCD that was approximately the last of the
       | models that dont have built in bullshitware.
       | 
       | One day it will break I suppose. Probably should have bought ten
       | of them.
       | 
       | Now might be a good time to stick up on secondhand dumb TVs.
       | 
       | Fortunately I enjoyed watching movies / series, but not so much
       | that I think a $3000 / better quality display would enhance the
       | experience significantly. I also can't justify that sort of
       | expenses on a screen.
        
         | throwaway742 wrote:
         | Lobotomizing my TV is an apt description for what I did to my
         | old TCL. I just removed the entire wireless module.
        
         | atlas_hugged wrote:
         | I got a 48 in LG from Costco for $300 (OLED C1 can be had for
         | around $800 I think). I just never hooked mine up to the
         | internet. Works just fine. I use an Apple TV to watch streaming
         | stuff.
        
       | agilo wrote:
       | I don't understand, what is the point of doing this? Eliminating
       | ads? Expanding functionality? It's not clear from the description
       | what is to be gained from jail breaking your LG tv. I'm perfectly
       | satisfied with it now.
        
         | teawrecks wrote:
         | Unlimited "Developer Mode" access
         | 
         | While LG allows willing Homebrew developers/users to install
         | unofficial applications onto their TVs, official method
         | requires manual renewal of "developer mode session", which
         | expires after 50 hours of inactivity.
         | 
         | Some of the amazing homebrew that has been built/ported onto
         | webOS would likely never be accepted onto LG's official Content
         | Store.
         | 
         | Lower level user/application access
         | 
         | This allows willing developers to research webOS system
         | internals, which will result in creation of amazing projects,
         | like PicCap (high performance video capture used for DIY
         | immersive ambient lighting setups), or access to some
         | interesting features like customization of system UI, remote
         | adjustment of certain TV configuration options, and others.
        
         | NullPrefix wrote:
         | Unless you're paying someone to use the device, this should be
         | available by default. The question should be what's the point
         | of not doing this?
        
         | IshKebab wrote:
         | One app I saw that immediately makes me want this is something
         | that rebinds the useless Rakuten TV button to something else!
         | 
         | LG's interface is pretty insane in places. E.g. there's no
         | button to go straight to the TV guide. There's not even a
         | play/pause button on the remote. You have to press the centre
         | button anywhere between 1 and 4 (yes!) times to pause. The
         | screen brightness control is buried somewhere insane in the
         | settings like "OLED care". The home screen is literally 85%
         | wasted space. Fully half of it is just a big "WebOS" banner.
         | 
         | If I can fix any of those this is definitely worth doing!
        
           | porbelm wrote:
           | And FUCK the input settings not keeping properly after
           | saving. Try plugging in a laptop, set the input to "PC", save
           | the input config. All good. But if you unplug the laptop from
           | HDMI, either end? Setting lost, back to default. Ugh.
        
           | te_chris wrote:
           | There's a reason mine has never touched wifi and all 'smart'
           | stuff happens through my apple tv 4k.
        
           | romland wrote:
           | I had the same issue as you. I rooted my TV and decided to
           | ditch that Rakuten button too[1]. I was mildly irritated that
           | I had no way of getting current time easily, so wrote a
           | Svelte+Vite WebOS example that does just that. Adding
           | pause/resume should be equally trivial. For things like this,
           | it's actually very little code once you get used to working
           | on the platform, but yeah, the research prior is what takes
           | time.
           | 
           | Not sure if you know this, but you can bind any application
           | to a "long click" shortcut. Hold one of 1-9 buttons for two
           | seconds over an application in the menu and it will bind it.
           | From there on you can just hold said button for two seconds
           | and application starts.
           | 
           | As for UI things, depending on the version of WebOS, you can
           | likely make (some of) the tweaks you want by using bind+mount
           | to make QML files writable
           | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QML). There are a some people
           | doing small tweaks to the UI, but I don't know of anyone that
           | did any huge changes (since, once rooted, the ads are
           | trivially removed).
           | 
           | [1] https://github.com/romland/webos-svelte-template (it
           | lacks documentation)
        
             | urbandw311er wrote:
             | > but you can bind any application to a "long click"
             | shortcut
             | 
             | This was a great tip, thank you
        
         | mburee wrote:
         | It says right there, it's purpose is to jailbreak your TV. Why
         | do they have to spoonfeed users ideas for what to do after?
        
           | Kiro wrote:
           | Don't be obnoxious.
        
         | blowski wrote:
         | My LG tv shows ads, streams all sorts of data to LG that I'd
         | rather they didn't, and the UI is pretty ropey.
         | 
         | Given I mostly watch Kodi, I'd love that to be the primary UI.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | The readme has a section "Why rooting".
        
       | henriquecm8 wrote:
       | Bought a lg tv recently and root it on the first day, there some
       | cool homebrew app.
       | 
       | Like and unofficial Crunchyroll app.
       | 
       | Now I just need and app to reconfigure the control app shortcuts.
        
         | anotherman554 wrote:
         | There's an unofficial Crunchyroll App yet Sony can't be
         | bothered to make on official one? Weird.
        
       | agilob wrote:
       | >Will this break Netflix/YouTube/AmazonVideo?
       | 
       | >No. This does not break or limit access to subscription services
       | or other DRMed content.
       | 
       | I can't run Netflix app on rooted Android, but could on a rooted
       | TV. I guess this isn't something Netflix was prepared for.
        
         | reyqn wrote:
         | You can run Netflix on rooted Android, you just have to hide
         | root from the app
        
           | matheusmoreira wrote:
           | > you just have to hide root from the app
           | 
           | No longer going to be possible due to hardware remote
           | attestation.
        
           | Iolaum wrote:
           | the operative word here is "just"
           | 
           | As someone who has hid root from banking apps in the past,
           | there is no just here. You need to keep up with release notes
           | of software updates in several components (custom OS, magisk
           | and any roothide mods you use). That's fun to do for a while,
           | but not long term. And definitely something I wouldn't expect
           | from the mythical average user.
        
             | gommm wrote:
             | I agree, it's not for the average user. I'm happy to root
             | my android (mostly because android backups really suck
             | otherwise) but would definitely not recommend it to most
             | people. I think it took me an average of 2 hours every 6
             | months to keep hiding root correctly.
        
             | yusi-san wrote:
             | I agree, but the average user doesn't generally root his
             | android phone. If you have the technical
             | abilities/motivation to root your phone, you may have the
             | ability to use MagiskHide and manage an exclusion list in
             | Magisk.
        
         | dogma1138 wrote:
         | I guess their WebOS app doesn't have root detection.
        
           | password4321 wrote:
           | Yet!
        
           | mcv wrote:
           | What happens if they add it?
        
             | prmoustache wrote:
             | They only add it on mobile devices were you can download
             | the content to view it online as a decryption key has to be
             | stored locally and the content producer don't want them to
             | facilitate piracy /backup copies.
        
         | yellow_lead wrote:
         | That's funny. Wonder if there are any DRM keys that can be
         | extracted after root.
        
           | Mindwipe wrote:
           | If there were they would be revoked.
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | You can also watch pretty much anything on a "rooted" computer
         | (i.e. one where the user has admin access). I'm not entirely
         | sure why phones are the one device where that's somehow
         | considered a big deal.
        
           | arianvanp wrote:
           | But Netflix only allows 720p on computers because of this. So
           | there's that...
        
             | norman784 wrote:
             | I thought that 720p was a linux limit, AFAIK on macOS and
             | windows at least you get 1080p, but sucks that you can't
             | watch in your fully capable hardware in a good quality.
             | Amazon does the same.
        
               | tpxl wrote:
               | 720p is non-widewine-DRM limit afaik. Free as in freedom
               | distros don't have proprietary DRM that would allow you
               | to watch more than 720p by default, but you can install
               | the proprietary blobs and get higher resolutions.
        
               | easrng wrote:
               | You need widevine to play Netflix at all, and widevine is
               | always proprietary. It has a few modes though, L3 is
               | software only (easier to crack) and it's commonly limited
               | to lower resolutions. L1 uses hardware to decrypt and
               | will only output video over encrypted connections (like
               | HDCP). Since L1 is harder to crack you need it to get the
               | full resolution. I don't think there's any implementation
               | of L1 for Linux other than for android and probably some
               | custom embedded ports. There's also L2 but idk what that
               | does.
        
               | Mindwipe wrote:
               | > You need widevine to play Netflix at all
               | 
               | No you don't. Safari doesn't support Widevine at all for
               | example.
        
               | gerdesj wrote:
               | Not on my gear (all Linux). Also, what do you think
               | Android is?
        
             | sgtfrankieboy wrote:
             | Incorrect. I can watch 4K on my PC just fine using Edge or
             | the Windows App, you also get 4K with Safari.
             | 
             | https://help.netflix.com/en/node/13444
        
               | ryandrake wrote:
               | Important to note you need a very recent version of
               | Safari. If you are using an older MacMini as your HTPC,
               | your Safari version may not be new enough. I found this
               | out the hard way. Edge on macOS works though.
        
               | 867-5309 wrote:
               | that's interesting. I wonder how Netflix detects that.
               | would it be as simple as using an Edge user agent, or
               | more complex using the Edge browser engine with embedded
               | DRM keys
        
               | luch wrote:
               | to get 4K resoltution with Edge on Windows, you need to
               | activate VBS (Virtualization-based Security) and Secure
               | Boot. In that config, DRM keys are stored in a trusted
               | application in secure world, and Edge from normal world
               | ask the TA to decrypt the stream.
               | 
               | Server side Netflix has nothing to do, just send out the
               | encrypted stream if asked by a client.
        
               | 867-5309 wrote:
               | if asked specifically by a proven Windows client with VBS
               | and secure boot enabled? or could the same method be
               | implemented on any OS?
        
               | Mindwipe wrote:
               | The entire graphics chain needs MS signed drivers, so no.
               | 
               | (Netflix do the same thing on MacOS with Apple signed
               | drivers, backed up by hardware based security.)
        
               | 867-5309 wrote:
               | thanks for the info
        
               | easrng wrote:
               | Edge supports Microsoft's PlayReady DRM and Safari
               | supports Apple's FairPlay DRM, both of which are stronger
               | than Widevine.
        
               | 867-5309 wrote:
               | are each of those tied to their implementors? or can they
               | be used on any supported OS and hardware like widevine
               | can?
        
               | Mindwipe wrote:
               | All of them have varying levels of secure implementation,
               | and services will usually only send high resolution
               | content to devices that can demonstrate (with signed
               | keys) the more secure options.
               | 
               | Including Widevine. Widevine Level 3 is a software based
               | solution that can be used on a variety of platforms, but
               | the space for Widevine Level 1 requires OS and hardware
               | integration (which doesn't include Windows for example,
               | but is available for Android if the OEM does the
               | requisite work).
        
               | 867-5309 wrote:
               | it's a shame. really don't understand the thinking behind
               | it. it's easy for them to detect and ban shared accounts,
               | but it's also easy enough to rip a decrypted stream, even
               | if it is only at 1x rate. not sure why they bother. I
               | suppose their recompense for piracy comes from those
               | manufacturers willing to pay them for signed keys in
               | exchange for hassle-free compatibility
        
       | nextstep wrote:
       | Is there a similar tool for Sony smart TVs running Android TV?
       | That OS has become so awful, plenty of ads you can't disable and
       | just generally unpolished in the unique Android way.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | jkellermann wrote:
       | Very interesting piece of work, however unfortunely not targeting
       | my LG TV from 2013. By any change, is anybody aware of a project
       | to install alternative firmware on such an ancient box? --
       | Cheers, Jurgen
        
         | romland wrote:
         | I'm not sure which WebOS (if at all) version you are running,
         | but https://www.google.com/search?q=getmein+lg+tv might work
         | for you.
         | 
         | It could also be running Netcast instead of WebOS? In which
         | case there are other ways to get in, but you'll be asking
         | yourself "why did I do this" pretty quickly.
         | 
         | Join the OpenLGTV Discord and you'll have a wealth of
         | information.
        
           | jkellermann wrote:
           | Thx for the information! I think my TV predates WebOS. Well,
           | I'm using Kodi on a Raspberry Pi mostly anyway, but would be
           | nice to use the TV itself aswell...
        
           | Gormo wrote:
           | > Join the OpenLGTV Discord and you'll have a wealth of
           | information.
           | 
           | Is this information archived in a more reasonable location
           | than Discord?
        
       | whatsthatabout wrote:
       | I've rooted my LG tv with this method a few months ago and have
       | no issues. Everything works just fine including 4K
       | Netflix/Prime/Disney. I like the homebrew apps and the fact that
       | this jailbreak somewhat limits the data my tv sends to LG.
        
       | satysin wrote:
       | Smart TV stories really show the bubble that many here are in.
       | 
       | "Why would anyone use a Smart TV?! Just build a home theatre PC
       | to connect to your old TV via a 60ft HDMI cable and use a
       | Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. I've been doing this since 2005"
       | 
       | As if any normal person wants that kind of setup. Not to mention
       | the difficulties with the above for higher end content such as 4K
       | Dolby Vision playback.
       | 
       | People want a basic interface that doesn't require downloading
       | files beforehand. Click a few buttons on the remote and you have
       | high quality streaming video without the fuss.
       | 
       | What is hard to understand about why people _like_ smart TVs?
       | It's just convenience.
        
         | mlindner wrote:
         | Also good luck trying to build a non-Windows system that does:
         | 
         | * Dolby Atmos decoded direct to speakers with no delay.
         | 
         | * Correctly demuxes and sends Dolby Vision HDR content at 4k
         | 120 Hz to the display with a calibrated consistent lag with no
         | frame drops.
         | 
         | * Correctly handles atmos surround system speaker calibration.
         | 
         | * Can play any Blu-Ray available on the market, sending the
         | content without quality loss.
        
         | kuschku wrote:
         | The true solution is "just buy a TV designed for console gaming
         | without any smarts and plug in an apple TV / nvidia shield /
         | roku / firetv stick / chromecast".
        
         | deificx wrote:
         | I would just like an option without the smart-stuff. It seems
         | impossible to find, it's either very small and ugly TVs or
         | built for something else like digital signage and very
         | expensive.
         | 
         | I also have the impression that "everyone" buys an apple
         | tv/Chromecast/etc anyways because of limitations in the smart
         | tv or just ease of use. It makes a lot of sense to have these
         | things separated except for TV manufacturers that want you to
         | buy a TV more frequently.
        
           | Nursie wrote:
           | "Everyone" buys that 5 years down the line when the built-in
           | services drop out of support, or they just buy a new tv.
           | 
           | And often by that point they're looking for an excuse to buy
           | the new shiny anyway.
        
           | JetAlone wrote:
           | That's ironic. You can pay your way around the nonsense
           | surveillance/advertising infrastructure by buying the
           | expensive functional displays that were intended for
           | uninterrupted advertising infrastructure.
           | 
           | Can we produce substantially inexpensive black-boxed hardware
           | that they desperately want in order to cut costs, but
           | interferes in dissatisfying but barely tolerable ways with
           | the quality of life too? Can we occasionally make it send
           | messages in-store to their customers that the execs wouldn't
           | want or approve of but find themselves putting up with
           | because it's relatively benign compared to a worse bottom
           | line?
        
           | post_below wrote:
           | Have you looked into high res projectors? Prices for the
           | decent ones are comparable to TVs.
        
           | alkonaut wrote:
           | The best dumb TV is a regular (i.e. smart) TV that you just
           | don't connect to the internet, and use some separate signal
           | source to.
           | 
           | Using a computer monitor or specialist/signage TV is both
           | expensive and offers a worse experience.
        
             | devmor wrote:
             | Unfortunately, you still really have to do your research to
             | find a decent one.
             | 
             | My Samsung TV has never been connected to the internet - we
             | use a Roku box to feed streaming content to it - but it's
             | still laggy and unresponsive by default, getting worse over
             | the course of a few months until we decide to factory reset
             | it again.
             | 
             | At one point it was so bad that I pressed the "change
             | source" button a couple times, noticed it wasn't working,
             | pressed the volume buttons, then the menu button, assumed
             | the remote was dead, went to find some batteries in a
             | drawer, took the remote batteries out, and then the TV
             | rapidly switched sources, changed volume and opened the
             | menu over the course of half a second.
        
               | alkonaut wrote:
               | I mean I don't expect my TV to work like a snappy
               | appliance from the 1990's. I expect my TV these days to
               | be a slow super low cost ARM computer with poorly written
               | buggy software.
               | 
               | But I expect that of my car infotainment, my computer
               | monitor, and a recently purchased signage screen as well.
               | Finding a device (any device) that _didn 't_ behave like
               | this would me more shocking. I tend to think that the
               | best thing to do is buy the most popular product, from a
               | known brand. Because at least then there are millions of
               | people having the same experience, increasing the chance
               | of a fix.
               | 
               | We get _amazing_ hardware in many cases these days. The
               | quality of the screens in TV 's these days is completely
               | unbelievable. And you can get a decent one for a few
               | hundred. I too _wish_ there was a brand that would spend
               | a little more on better UX (both hardware and software).
               | But the harsh reality is that it doesn 't sell. Rumor
               | doesn't spread that BrandX has snappy intuitive menus,
               | fewer bugs or less ads. The commercial says that
               | UsualBrand has new magical colors and ultra high def
               | thingamajigs, and that sells TVs.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | My Roku TV is set to automatically go to the HDMI source
               | where my AppleTV is connected. The remote for my AppleTV
               | turns on the TV and controls the volume.
               | 
               | The ARM chip in the AppleTV is anything but slow and the
               | only thing I had to do to prevent ads on the Home Screen
               | is to remove Apple's apps from the top bar and replace
               | them with my most used apps.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Al-Khwarizmi wrote:
         | Yeah, in fact I have the skills for such a setup, but I don't
         | bother. Why would I?
         | 
         | The LG built-in system is actually pretty nice (and the reason
         | why I buy LG TVs). Netflix and Prime Video are a click away. If
         | I have downloaded something, I just plug a USB stick or use the
         | built-in software (SmartShare) to stream from my computer by
         | WiFi. If I want to play some games in the Steam Deck, I plug it
         | with an HDMI cable and it just works. If I want to show my kid
         | a Youtube video, it's a little more inconvenient with the on-
         | screen keyboard but not a big deal. By the way, I have a Sonos
         | Amp connected through HDMI Arc, feeding two wired front
         | speakers and two wireless back speakers, and it works with many
         | versions of Dolby surround sound - I haven't bothered to check
         | if this is easy on PC, but I suspect it might not.
         | 
         | Maybe it's just that I don't watch a lot of TV so I'm not
         | fussy, but I haven't found any particular feature I would like
         | to have that isn't reasonably easy with my smart TV, while I do
         | find significant drawbacks in the PC setup (basically more
         | stuff in the living room, why would I need a keyboard or mouse
         | there?).
         | 
         | So yes. I'm a nerd, and I like my smart TV. Go figure.
        
           | FnuGk wrote:
           | how do you do streaming with SmartShare? closest thing i
           | could find was that the tv supports airPlay off all things.
           | But that seems quite useless without any apple products.
        
           | mccorrinall wrote:
           | I have exactly one reason to fiddle with my smart tv: to use
           | an youtube app with adblocker and sponsorblock. The first
           | could also be achieved by buying premium. But sponsorblock?
           | No, I need to be able to sideload apps for that.
        
             | satysin wrote:
             | SponsorBlock on my TV would probably be the biggest single
             | value add feature I could do. I pay for YouTube Premium
             | because it is cheap so it is worth it to remove the YouTube
             | ads but it is frustrating how much sponsored crap there is
             | in the videos themselves these days and SponsorBlock is
             | wonderful in the browser.
        
           | satysin wrote:
           | Indeed. I have been making my TVs "smart" since around 2001
           | so that I could watch content from my computer on the TV.
           | I've done it all from DivX CD players to a home theatre PC to
           | network streaming boxes.
           | 
           | Back in the 00s I had a nice setup with a networked media
           | player (connected via SCART back then) that could play my
           | DivX/XviD DVD rips from a network share.
           | 
           | These days I have a NAS running Plex with an Apple TV 4K (2nd
           | gen) and use Infuse for playback that happily plays back
           | 150GB 4K HDR Bluray REMUXES over the network instantly. Also
           | it is accessible anywhere I have internet so I can access my
           | whole media library on a phone, tablet or laptop while away
           | as easily as I can Netflix.
           | 
           | I use my LG "smart" TV like a dumb TV. I don't let it have
           | internet access as it doesn't need it for how I use it
           | although it is connected to the network but it has its own
           | blackhole VLAN just to stop the "connect your TV to complete
           | setup" message it always shows.
        
           | scarface74 wrote:
           | The problem with WebOS and any other smart TV platform that
           | is not Apple or Roku is that new streaming services either
           | get ported late or not at all to it.
        
           | bobdvb wrote:
           | WAF = Wife Acceptance Factor, now with added junior school
           | kid!
           | 
           | I love my LG OLED TV, everything I need is on the remote.
        
         | reacharavindh wrote:
         | I think you picked the extreme to make your point(Desktop PC in
         | another room and long cable). I'm aware of all the BS that TV
         | manufacturers pull with "smart TV" and chose to never ever let
         | my TV connect to any home network. Instead, I had an old Mac
         | mini laying around(from 2012 that is not up to snuff for main
         | desktop, but is okay for a browser on TV to view Netflix, Apple
         | TV, YouTube and basically anything accessible by a web
         | browser). This is really not as complicated a setup as you were
         | talking about before.. The Mac mini is just behind the TV, and
         | is quiet.. a mini Bluetooth keyboard, and a mouse is all I need
         | to have my own Internet TV.. using smart TV as a dumb display
         | is the best.
        
           | satysin wrote:
           | Sure if you have old hardware capable of decent media
           | playback it isn't a bad option but old hardware is quickly
           | the limiting factor for higher quality media such as original
           | HDR or Dolby Vision BluRay video streams.
           | 
           | Of course not everyone cares about that but if you're going
           | to spend good money on a nice 4K HDR TV I suspect you want to
           | actually be able to watch HDR content.
        
             | reacharavindh wrote:
             | Yes, that part is true. I wanted to get a Sonos Beam Gen2
             | sound bar for my TV, and realised it support Dolby Atmos
             | Audio. Now, I kinda want to buy the Apple TV 4K just for
             | Dolby Audio support, and replace the Mac mini with it..
             | 
             | But, even for that, I personally would not let my TV
             | connect to the Internet and ruin my teaching experiences
             | with ads.
             | 
             | Like most things in engineer's life, tradeoffs and people
             | choose to trade different things.....
        
           | hengistbury wrote:
           | That is the exact same setup, minus the long cable and using
           | an old PC rather than building one. For many people this
           | setup is too complicated.
        
         | emsy wrote:
         | WebOS is so much better than AndroidTV or the Samsung and
         | Philipps OSes my previous TVs had. I actually have no need to
         | use a Media Stick.
        
         | Loranubi wrote:
         | - I don't want my TV crash regularly - I don't want to connect
         | my TV to the internet - I don't want my TV to spy on me - I
         | don't want to have ads on my TV - I do want to have control
         | over image/video processing - I do want to watch stuff on my TV
         | for which no app is available - I don't want to pay extra for
         | compute which is already available with my PC - I do want to be
         | able to access my existing file and disk based media library
         | 
         | For me, convenience is having my dumb TV connected to my PC.
         | It's not impossible to get a remote for a PC too you know.
        
           | kcarter80 wrote:
           | OP wasn't arguing your use case doesn't exist.
           | 
           | They were arguing it's uncommon and requires above average
           | competency.
        
         | INTPenis wrote:
         | It's just unnecessary to have a camera in your TV, that's all I
         | feel. I have an Acer 55" DP monitor instead. And I use
         | chromecast, no problem, it has no cameras.
        
           | Nursie wrote:
           | Pretty sure that's a minority of smart tvs anyway...
        
             | colordrops wrote:
             | for now
        
         | cgrealy wrote:
         | I've built that kind of setup (HTPC, bluetooth kbm, etc) before
         | and now I have a smart TV, and I definitely like it for all the
         | reasons listed.
         | 
         | But it's also not unreasonable to want a smart TV that doesn't
         | plaster the UI with ads.
        
           | suction wrote:
        
         | b3lvedere wrote:
         | I totally understand the convenience. Most people think my
         | setup is indeed complex. Fortunately my family was already used
         | on how to use the Xbox and Switch on the tv. Connecting a MSI
         | Trident computer and teaching them how to use Kodi, Steam and
         | the various streaming services via a web browser was quite
         | easy.
        
         | chrischen wrote:
         | Well, normal people could use Apple TV (or Google or Fire TV)
         | which generally offer a better experience than whatever TV
         | manufacturer has built in to their "smart" TV. I have this same
         | problem with smart home devices, in which every manufacturer
         | has some basic app that does some crappy automations... whereas
         | it'd be much better if they just delegated that exclusively to
         | Google or Alexa or Siri/Homekit.
        
         | justsomeguy123 wrote:
         | Do you... change your tires? Or just get a brand new car every
         | year to avoid the hassle of dealing with car shops?
         | 
         | Problem with Smart TVs is they become obsolete super fast
         | software wise. And basically, unsafe to connect to the internet
         | in a few years.
         | 
         | Most TVs have CI+ ports. I can easily imagine an upgradable
         | "smart module". Just buy a new compatible one (which,
         | effectively could just connect for power and HDMI) and get the
         | brand new stuff.
         | 
         | There is no bubble, smart TVs are a consumerist trap and it
         | will require government intervention to fix because nobody has
         | any incentives otherwise.
        
           | satysin wrote:
           | Gonna skip over your tyre comparison as I don't think it
           | makes much sense sorry.
           | 
           | Having a switchable "compute" module that the user can
           | upgrade without replacing the whole TV would be great but the
           | truth is that is what a streaming box is doing just not
           | integrated into the TV but connected via HDMI.
           | 
           | I treat my smart TVs like a dumb TV. It doesn't have internet
           | access as I have explained elsewhere. I just use the TV OS to
           | switch inputs and change picture settings but never use any
           | of the built in apps.
           | 
           | Having said that my parents do use the apps and haven't
           | reported any issues with them on their LG C8 from 2018. I
           | have tried to get them to use a streaming box but they didn't
           | see the point in complicating things to use the same
           | streaming services. Maybe if the apps get slow or crappy they
           | will change their mind rather than replace the TV.
        
         | tinus_hn wrote:
         | People like the smart in smart tvs when they just bought it but
         | 6 months in almost nobody uses it because 9 out of 10 times it
         | just stinks. They use a chromecast, Apple TV or some other set
         | top box.
        
           | cgrealy wrote:
           | Do you have any evidence of that?
           | 
           | Anecdotally, that's not true of people I know (and even less
           | so for people not in tech), but anecdotes are not
           | particularly useful.
        
           | scarface74 wrote:
           | I can guarantee you that most people aren't buying extra
           | devices to watch TV when the apps they use are built in. Most
           | people definitely aren't buying $150 AppleTV devices. Roku is
           | by far the most popular streaming device and they are
           | aggressive about getting their software included with most
           | low end TVs.
        
             | pessimizer wrote:
             | > I can guarantee you that most people aren't buying extra
             | devices to watch TV when the apps they use are built in.
             | 
             | No shit, the reason you jailbreak a tv is to put apps on it
             | that were not built in (or remove apps that are intrusive.)
             | This is just like saying that people who are happy with
             | things aren't unhappy with things.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | > ...but 6 months in almost nobody uses it because 9 out
               | of 10 times it just stinks. They use a chromecast, Apple
               | TV or some other set top box.
               | 
               | The parent commenter claimed that "almost nobody uses"
               | the built in smart TV features. This is false outside of
               | whatever tiny bubble they are in.
        
               | tinus_hn wrote:
               | Set top boxes and chromecasts are selling pretty well so
               | obviously people are using them, but I guess there's
               | quite some people content with using a mediocre
               | implementation, for as long as the api that's used is
               | supported by YouTube and Netflix.
               | 
               | It probably depends on the kind of crowd you sample.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | Set top boxes if they ever sold well are very much
               | declining in popularity as most TVs have the same OS
               | preinstalled.
               | 
               | Roku by itself comes pre-installed on almost 40% of new
               | TVs
               | 
               | https://www.fiercevideo.com/video/roku-claims-38-all-
               | smart-t...
               | 
               | Manufacturers have just started installing FireTV
               | software.
               | 
               | https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/devices/amazon-vp-
               | shares-ho...
               | 
               | And Google has been in the game for awhile with
               | preinstalled Android.
        
           | Kiro wrote:
           | That's obviously not true. I hardly know anyone who uses
           | external devices. I have a Chromecast but never use it after
           | I got a smart TV.
        
           | satysin wrote:
           | My parents still use all the smart TV features in their 4+
           | year old LG C8. They don't have any streaming boxes, I tried
           | to give them my old Apple TV a year ago but they didn't like
           | the remote (don't blame them for that, it is garbage).
           | 
           | They use Netflix, BBC iPlayer, YouTube and the Disney+ apps
           | daily. No complaints other than when the wifi sometimes goes
           | out but that isn't a fault of the TV.
        
         | mrweasel wrote:
         | > It's just convenience.
         | 
         | Sure, if they worked, but they don't. Sadly it's pretty hard to
         | get any real numbers on this. I do know people who use the
         | smart bit of their smart tv, and to be fair, their use case
         | might be exactly what the designers had in mind. The apps on
         | the TV is a supplement to live TV. So mom and dad will watch
         | just regular cable TV, maybe stream a movie once or twice a
         | month, while the kids will use the YouTube app.
         | 
         | For people who are basically done with cable or over the air
         | broadcasts, smart TVs just aren't good enough (for the most
         | part). I think you can get high-end TVs now that are fast
         | enough and where the software is reasonable. However, if you
         | buy your TV in the supermarket, or just pick the cheapest one
         | in the right size or color, when you can safely add something
         | like a ChromeCast or even an AppleTV and it will still be
         | cheaper.
         | 
         | You're right that a "normal person" simply do not want a home
         | theater PC with a keyboard and mouse. They also don't care
         | about Dolby, Atmos or soundbars. They just want a TV and if the
         | speakers are built in, then perfect, less to worry about... In
         | fact I'm kinda normal in that sense, my TV is a screen, it has
         | speakers and inputs, it's fine. What's not fine is the shitty
         | apps and the fact that I can reboot my AppleTV twice in the
         | time it takes to open the Netflix on the TV. The AppleTV is my
         | current baseline, you have to be at least as good or better.
         | 
         | Then there's the apps, you can be certain that whatever
         | streaming subscription you want will have an AppleTV app or it
         | works with ChromeCast. Does it work on a random Philips TV....
         | Will it ever get updated on your Samsung TV from 2016? Most
         | likely not.
         | 
         | The concept of smart TVs are very convenient, but the TV
         | manufactures lost this one. Either they stuff some Android
         | stuff into the TV and upgrade the hardware or at least add in a
         | small shelf in the back of the TV for me to put the AppleTV
         | into, like B&O did at one point.
        
           | Nursie wrote:
           | > Either they stuff some Android stuff into the TV
           | 
           | Are you aware of Google TV? It basically is android on the
           | tv, and it's on lots of low to high end tvs across a bunch of
           | manufacturers (Hisense, Tcl and Sony last I looked).
           | 
           | It's more than good enough for people who are done with cable
           | and broadcast (I'm one of them). There are apps for all the
           | streaming services, both my country's tv channels and the big
           | players like netflix, apple, disney etc, and they perform
           | great.
        
             | easrng wrote:
             | Not all Android TV devices support all the streaming
             | services. Mine works fine with Disney+, Amazon, and Apple
             | TV+, but Netflix won't support the device for some reason.
        
               | Mindwipe wrote:
               | > Not all Android TV devices support all the streaming
               | services. Mine works fine with Disney+, Amazon, and Apple
               | TV+, but Netflix won't support the device for some
               | reason.
               | 
               | That must be... an extremely niche device. With some
               | considerable knowledge of the space, I cannot think of an
               | Android TV device that supports Apple TV but not Netflix
               | ever.
        
             | scarface74 wrote:
             | You mean the company that abandons software quickly? That's
             | the last thing I would want on my TV. At least Roku has a
             | history of supporting its hardware.
        
               | Nursie wrote:
               | Sure, android has totally been abandoned, damn shame.
               | 
               | And you know what? If they _do_ abandon it, I 'm still
               | free to buy an add-on of some sort, so I haven't lost
               | anything compared to people who have this weird obsession
               | with dumb-tvs.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | It's not _Android_ being abandoned. The issue is _your
               | device_ being abandoned.
        
         | atoav wrote:
         | While I think you are right, I also think in 2022 the required
         | skills for the alternative should be part of everybody's
         | education.
        
           | bayesianbot wrote:
           | It's always been very strange for me that people who use
           | computers hours and hours per day don't customize their
           | workflows in any ways. Same people who customize and spend a
           | long time choosing their car because they sit an hour or two
           | every day in those, who are always improving their efficiency
           | in stuff like building things, cleaning, cooking etc.. Then
           | they go to their 6-12 hour daily stint on computer and use
           | Edit->Copy, Edit->Paste to copy&paste stuff and that's the
           | level they stay on forever, only changing things when updates
           | change it for them.
        
             | piaste wrote:
             | Perhaps because that kind of person only uses a computer
             | for work, and never for themselves.
             | 
             | If their career won't see any benefits by improving their
             | computer skills, they have no reason to care about
             | inefficiency.
        
           | neoberg wrote:
           | I mean I definitely have the skills to do these and have done
           | it before. I even have my gaming pc connected to the tv all
           | the time. But I don't want to fiddle with and maintain this
           | setup for video consumption. I just want to turn on my TV,
           | run the Netflix app and have dolby vision 4k video playing
           | without issues.
           | 
           | I don't have any data but I feel like most people (technical
           | or not) are thinking the same as me.
        
             | atoav wrote:
             | This was not my point. I said anybody should be thought the
             | skills to find a solution for this themselves _if_ they
             | want to. Even if you end up hiring someone or pay for a
             | finished product having a basic idea what a thing entails
             | and how it could be made is a useful skill to have in any
             | evolving techological society.
        
           | onion2k wrote:
           | _While I think you are right, I also think in 2022 the
           | required skills for the alternative should be part of
           | everybody 's education._
           | 
           | Pretty much everyone believes their own specialist skills
           | should be part of general education curriculum. If you ask a
           | lawyer if law should be taught in schools, or an accountant
           | about accounting, or a translator about languages, or a
           | mechanic, or a nurse, or _literally any person in any job_
           | they all think their own skills are appropriate to be taught
           | to everyone. Obviously that isn 't going to work.
        
             | atoav wrote:
             | Oh come on. Scripting and coding is not some specialist
             | knowledge in a world where a big chunk of people spend a
             | good chunk of their time feeding data into bureaucratic
             | systems. Most white collar jobs would immensly profit from
             | knowing a little about scripting. Some of the tasks that
             | take them days could be done in seconds if they just had a
             | basic understanding how to transform data. And I will stand
             | for it, this is something they should teach in school.
             | 
             | Given that even farmers have to spend more time behind the
             | computer than anybody is willing to admit, a little bit of
             | understanding ans ability to automate the boring things is
             | just a basic skill that should be thought. Not to solve any
             | specific problem, but to learn how to find your own
             | solutions and be clever about work processes.
             | 
             | Any society that teaches this will massively outperform one
             | where specialists put up walls because they are afraid of
             | sharing the magic incantations. Or we could continue living
             | in a society where clerks print out a form just so the
             | other clerk can type it into another program, because they
             | haven't even discovered the concept of copy and paste.
        
               | onion2k wrote:
               | Everyone should know a bit about the law, everyone should
               | be able to do their accounts, everyone should be able to
               | mend their car (maybe less so with electric cars..),
               | everyone should be able to do basic first aid and look
               | after their health, everyone should understand a bit
               | about politics, everyone should know how money works ...
               | literally everyone believes their job is a special case
               | that ought to be taught in schools.
               | 
               | The fact you believe everyone should learn some basic
               | coding just shows you work in tech. It doesn't make it
               | true. For a start, very few people actually apply the
               | skills they learn at school until at least a decade
               | afterwards (learning at around 10 - 12 years old, getting
               | a first proper job where skills matter in their early
               | 20s). Do you really think basic coding taught today is
               | going to apply to a farming job in 2032 in the light of
               | Github Copilot, visual programming, the death of
               | filesystems and the rise of iOS/Android file pickers etc?
               | Of course not.
        
         | tjoff wrote:
         | Of course a normal person doesn't want such a setup.
         | 
         | But a normal person doesn't want a smart tv either. It sucks.
         | And that is when it is working, and it will stop working. And
         | it does spy on you.
         | 
         | I get that people want to like smart TVs. Unfortunately, you
         | can't.
        
           | satysin wrote:
           | I am confused you say a normal person doesn't want a smart tv
           | but then on the next line say they do want a smart TV?
           | 
           | I assume you mean normal people don't like crappy smart TV
           | experiences with slow and crappy apps but if they were smooth
           | and fast and easy to use they would like them more? If so
           | that is true of pretty much everything technology related :)
           | Nobody _likes_ using a slow, crappy computer that takes 5
           | minutes to load a webpage do they.
           | 
           | I think normal people _love_ smart TVs they just wish they
           | were _better_ especially as they age a bit.
           | 
           | What would be fantastic is a modular smart TV where the
           | screen has a standardised connection for a compute unit that
           | you can replace for a much smaller cost than replacing the
           | whole TV itself. If you're happy with your screen it is
           | frustrating you need to buy a whole new TV just because the
           | shitty SoC can't handle all the new stuff Netflix, Disney,
           | etc. add to their apps over time.
        
           | Nursie wrote:
           | > But a normal person doesn't want a smart tv either.
           | 
           | Erm, yeah, they do. They want a tv that's got the netflix and
           | stuff all built in. A 'normal' person doesn't want to deal
           | with an extra device that may or may not have a separate
           | remote control. They want simplicity. Smart tvs give them
           | that.
        
             | tjoff wrote:
             | If that was true it would be fine. But that is not what
             | they are getting.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | So what are they getting?
        
             | rbanffy wrote:
             | Ideally you should have dumb TVs and smart set top boxes.
             | TVs last much longer than the puny computers in them.
        
               | Nursie wrote:
               | Why is that ideal?
               | 
               | I'm perfectly happy to have a smart tv, it does what I
               | need without extra wires or remotes. I have zero desire
               | to have a separate box. If I'm still using my tv when it
               | stops getting updates and being able to stream, _then_ I
               | 'll investigate and add-on for it, not now, because in 5
               | years that would likely be out of date too.
               | 
               | I don't get this weird obsession with dumb screens.
               | Device convergence is excellent. The fewer boxes and
               | wires and the more capable the devices, the better.
        
           | scarface74 wrote:
           | In what reality do "normal"people not want TVs with their
           | most used streaming apps built in?
        
         | jaimex2 wrote:
         | You're an Apple user arent you?
        
           | satysin wrote:
           | Fedora mostly, I come from a RHEL background.
        
         | koenvdb wrote:
         | Yeah I really hate that I can no longer easily hook up my
         | laptop to my LG OLED tv and just press play on the movie I
         | downloaded. Nowadays I have to download PotPlayer, change the
         | renderer and increase the brightness whenever I want to
         | playback a 10bit HDR movie.
        
           | satysin wrote:
           | IMHO the best solution for you would be to just fire up
           | Plex/Emby/etc on your laptop when needed and use the Plex/etc
           | app on your TV/streaming box and play over the network. Wired
           | is more reliable of course but wifi works fine most of the
           | time too.
           | 
           | You can play back HDR and Dolby Vision 4K content just fine
           | with Plex and it is all decoded on the TV (or streaming box)
           | so no need to mess around with Windows video settings to get
           | HDR looking not-shit.
        
       | bjarneh wrote:
       | > We would like to thank:                   * LG, for patching
       | symptoms of bugs rather than underlying causes...
        
         | jgaa wrote:
         | I think it's called "Test Driven Development" ;)
        
       | 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 wrote:
       | Nothing in here about disabling adware, which is pretty much the
       | only thing I care about.
        
         | gattilorenz wrote:
         | Which adware? I have an LG OLED TV, and I never saw any ads in
         | the menus or whatever.
         | 
         | I do only use with apps or am external source (no DTV or
         | cable), so maybe it's that?
        
           | pseudalopex wrote:
           | https://lgads.tv/
        
         | walterbell wrote:
         | LG WebOS is based on Linux.
         | 
         | https://github.com/bashalarmist/war-webos-ad-remover
         | 
         | https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/war-webos-ad-remover-vers...
        
         | throw03172019 wrote:
         | I think you can do that using PiHole
        
           | xwowsersx wrote:
           | I haven't tried setting up PiHole yet. Does it "break" any of
           | the interwebz for me in the way client-side ad blockers
           | sometimes can? Any pitfalls I need to be aware of?
        
             | joemazerino wrote:
             | No, it is fully customizable and managed by a dashboard.
        
               | xwowsersx wrote:
               | You're saying that even if I do run into any issues, I'll
               | be able to tweak and resolve myself?
        
               | onionisafruit wrote:
               | Exactly. I have pi-hole and maybe one every month I have
               | to go to the web interface and click the link to disable
               | blocking for five minutes while I use some kind of shady
               | software.
        
               | anonymous_sorry wrote:
               | If it's something I use often I might spend the time to
               | look through the logs and work out the correct domain to
               | unblock. But there are also handy "disable for
               | 10s/30s/5m" functions which just let me get on with my
               | day.
        
             | artificialLimbs wrote:
             | Yes. Some pages won't load if they're on whatever blocklist
             | you're using. You can manually remove them from your
             | blocklist.
        
             | veidr wrote:
             | I use pi-hole and am grateful for it, but it breaks lots of
             | online commerce sites (e.g. Amazon) in ways that irritate
             | my wife, who then comes to me to file her grievances and
             | tech support request.
             | 
             | This is AFAICT because it blocks "sponsored product
             | placement" type ads -- which are indeed ads, but which some
             | users are deriving value from (at least so they think), and
             | want to see.
             | 
             | (Luckily the admin dashboard makes it fairly easy to deal
             | with these, but usually I "don't have time" right then and
             | just disable it for x minutes.)
        
               | judge2020 wrote:
               | Ublock origin is the best here, since it blocks trackers
               | and ads while still allowing you to temporarily click to
               | bypass the screen that stops you from visiting a tracker
               | (eg. a marketing shortlink or ad that you actually are
               | interested in).
        
               | anonymous_sorry wrote:
               | I agree that ublock origin is convenient, but doesn't do
               | anything to block ads in apps, on (unrooted) TVs, etc.
        
           | worthless-trash wrote:
           | Or get a decent /etc/hosts file .
        
           | lostlogin wrote:
           | A fair few routers also allow a rule similar to "if traffic
           | is on port 53 traffic and not from PiHole, send to PiHole."
        
           | liketochill wrote:
           | I have a lg webos smarttv and haven't noticed any ads. I also
           | have a pihole.
        
       | kossTKR wrote:
       | Is it impossible to root samsungs Tizen tv's?
       | 
       | This seems to be the most widely used TV and the worst offender.
       | 
       | This is great of course, but i don't know why they are targeting
       | LG which is less used and has way less ads than Samsung.
        
         | kkarpkkarp wrote:
         | > i don't know why they are targeting LG which is less used and
         | has way less ads than Samsung.
         | 
         | Probably because the author (looking on the git history, for
         | first 2 months it was developed by one guy and then one another
         | has joined him) has LG tv. :)
        
           | kossTKR wrote:
           | My mistake - great hacking from a solo dev.
           | 
           | Skimmed the comments and thought this was part of the KDE
           | Plasma Bigscreen project.
        
       | leros wrote:
       | I feel like my HDMI inputs are third party citizens on my LG TV.
       | I have to scroll past all the stupid apps to choose one of them.
       | And if I press the wrong button, it somehow opens up the LG fake
       | TV channels which defaults to the country music channel. It's an
       | incredibly strange experience. I don't mind all that smart TV
       | stuff but to prioritize it above things like my Chromecast or
       | BluRay player is odd.
        
         | eropple wrote:
         | On my C8 at least, you can reorder all items, including HDMI
         | ports. Did that change? (I'm looking at a new TV for my office
         | and that'd sure change my mind.)
        
         | josefresco wrote:
         | My LG will switch to whatever HDMI inputs "activates". It
         | defaults to my Chromecast w/Google TV, but if I turn on my
         | Steam link, or Blu-ray player the input automatically switches.
        
         | Eezee wrote:
         | If you haven't yet, you could put your HDMI devices on the
         | quick access buttons (long press on the number buttons). I
         | pretty much never use the home screen, despite using multiple
         | HDMI devices and a bunch of streaming services.
        
           | Kerrick wrote:
           | Not only does this work wonders when the TV is already on,
           | you can even configure QuickStart+ so that the quick access
           | button actually turns on the TV (while switching to that
           | input).
        
       | ck2 wrote:
       | How long until your (very expensive) car has you as a trapped
       | audience and starts showing ads until people feel forced to root
       | it
       | 
       | Imagine ads when emergency brake is on so people stop using that.
       | 
       | TV you can bypass with a media device (good idea for
       | portability/repalcement too)
       | 
       | But a car, can't
        
         | Gigachad wrote:
         | You won't own the car, you'll just request it via an app (like
         | a self driving taxi) and then you also won't have any ability
         | to root it.
        
           | whoooooo123 wrote:
           | Yep, and if your social credit score is too low then your
           | request will be denied and no car will show up. Don't like
           | it? You can't protest, because no car is available to take
           | you to the protest. Hooray for progress!
           | 
           | "You'll own nothing and you'll be happy."
        
           | avidiax wrote:
           | Yes, and it will be self-driving, but the entire windshield
           | and console will be replaced with a giant TV screen playing
           | unmutable ads.
           | 
           | If you pay extra, you can have a "limited ad" experience, and
           | see a virtual view out the windshield or even play content
           | from partner subscription services.
        
             | RajT88 wrote:
             | That doesn't seem so bad. By that point we'll have AR
             | headsets to drown all that out.
             | 
             | Of course, those will have ads too.
        
         | tjpnz wrote:
         | "It looks like you're having a car accident. Would you like to
         | add mens underwear to your shopping list?"
        
         | denkmoon wrote:
         | Fortunately you will be able to purchase Apple EyePods with
         | Active Noise Cancellation. Similar to Zaphod's Peril Sensitive
         | sunglasses. Only costs a single kidney too.
        
       | diavolodeejay wrote:
       | Do you know if it's possible to enable tv recording and maybe vcr
       | (or how it's called the thing that allows you to pause live tv
       | and resume later)? In italy for some reasons they are disabled..
        
         | judge2020 wrote:
         | I'm not sure TV recording is possible since you'll be getting
         | DRM-protected/encrypted content anyways, at least regarding the
         | streaming TV channels (unless you wanna get in the business of
         | researching and looking for exploits in widevine level 1
         | certified chips).
        
           | bscphil wrote:
           | In the US at least (don't know about Italy), TV is very
           | rarely streamed over the Internet. Most people have a cable /
           | set-top box that does the descrambling and then send a (HDCP
           | protected) video stream to the TV.
           | 
           | Because commercial TVs are trusted devices that have the key
           | to decrypt the HDCP stream, if a TV had a feature to record
           | and rewind video, it would work just fine. Widevine isn't
           | related because that's only used (AFAIK) for Internet
           | streaming.
        
             | judge2020 wrote:
             | Not sure what you mean; streaming TV in the US is booming
             | with YT TV reportedly having 5 million subscribers, Hulu
             | live TV at 4.1 million, Sling at 2.2 million, and Fubo at 1
             | million.[0] That's 12 million american households, so
             | between 5% and 10% of the adult population (depending on
             | how many subscribers you think are married).
             | 
             | 0: https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/how-many-
             | youtube-...
        
               | bscphil wrote:
               | There are more than 50 million cable TV subscribers
               | alone, though. And just over 10% of television households
               | rely on broadcast TV exclusively. My point wasn't that
               | streaming TV subscribers don't exist, it was just that
               | the OP almost certainly meant recording traditional cable
               | or broadcast TV when they said "tv recording". That's why
               | I was confused by your reference to widevine.
        
       | GoOnThenDoTell wrote:
       | Does this allow a 'clean' basic dumb tv setup?
        
       | jaimex2 wrote:
       | Would love something like this for Hisense
        
       | dSebastien wrote:
       | I love my LG OLED TV even more now that it's rooted and I can
       | watch YT without ads. The install process indeed reminds of
       | iPhone/iPod Touch jailbreak. Fun stuff :)
        
         | shultays wrote:
         | Assuming that is an android TV, you could also use
         | smarttubenext. No ads and it also comes with sponsor block and
         | IMO has better UI.
         | 
         | I have youtube premium but I still prefer smarttubenext over
         | default android tv youtube app
        
         | kmlx wrote:
         | > I love my LG OLED TV even more now that it's rooted and I can
         | watch YT without ads
         | 
         | you don't need to root it to watch Youtube without ads. you
         | just need to pay for Youtube premium.
        
           | NL807 wrote:
           | Or alternatively, you just want autonomy over the device you
           | own, and want to predicate how the pixels are being lit up on
           | the screen, and not according to some conglomerate's terms.
        
           | jonathantf2 wrote:
           | *watch YT without ads and paying
        
           | whatsthatabout wrote:
           | That's true for ads from youtube (I have yt premium myself)
           | but not for ads directly in the video. The yt app from the
           | homebrew store has sponsorblock[1] integrated which can skip
           | these too.
           | 
           | [1] https://github.com/ajayyy/SponsorBlock
        
             | m348e912 wrote:
             | If you are talking about in video sponsorship segments, how
             | does sponsorblock know when they start or end? Are creators
             | required to tag their sponsorship segments with timestamps
             | somewhere?
        
               | charcircuit wrote:
               | The data is crowd sourced from other sponsorblock users.
        
               | Karunamon wrote:
               | It's even gamified a little bit; the add-on tracks how
               | much time your submissions have saved other people (so if
               | you block out 30 second sponsor spot, and 10 users skip
               | that spot, you get credited with 300 seconds of time
               | save), and there is a leaderboard. Popular YouTubers like
               | Linus tech tips will have their sponsor spots identified
               | and submitted within a couple of minutes of uploading
               | because the high view count is worth a ton of time save.
               | 
               | Something else a lot of people don't know is that it can
               | be configured to skip things that are not simply sponsor
               | spots, stuff like filler, intro and and cards, begging
               | for subscriptions, and so forth. That add-on is the
               | single greatest quality of life improvement YouTube has
               | ever seen.
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | > it can be configured to skip things that are not simply
               | sponsor spots, stuff like filler, intro and and cards,
               | begging for subscriptions, and so forth
               | 
               | Amazing! I didn't know that. Now I'm starting to wonder
               | why I ever tolerated this noise in the first place...
        
             | reegnz wrote:
             | WOW, SponsorBlock is something I didn't know I needed so
             | bad! Thanks a lot for sharing. (I also pay for yt premium
             | btw)
        
               | nebula8804 wrote:
               | FUN FACT: yt-dlp (the new youtube dl cmd line app) also
               | has sponserblock integration so it can automatically
               | download files and strip the ads from the video file if
               | you specify the "--sponsorblock-remove all" argument.
               | There are other arguments you can pass to fine tune this,
               | check the docs.
        
               | bspammer wrote:
               | I'd much rather have the full video file and instead have
               | it be possible to skip at the point of playback. I
               | believe this is possible too: yt-dlp can mark the
               | sponsored sections as a separate chapter in the video
               | file.
        
             | SergeAx wrote:
             | Wow! Can I still cast YouTube videos from my phone to TV? I
             | understand that it is not a screencasting, phone app just
             | sends video id and control signals.
        
           | Kiro wrote:
           | Not sure why you are getting downvoted when that's the
           | obvious solution. I use YouTube Premium and don't see any ads
           | on my TV.
           | 
           | People say "just let me pay" but when the option is there no-
           | one really does. They just want free things.
        
             | jrib wrote:
             | I wish Google offered the option to do something like this:
             | 1. pay 2 cents (or whatever the value is to Google for a
             | single ad view) for each ad skipped            2. if your
             | total cost exceeds the monthly cost, just pay the monthly
             | cost
             | 
             | That may not make sense from Google's perspective, but on
             | the consumer side, I'm a lot more likely to sign up for
             | that scheme than paying a monthly fee for youtube.
             | 
             | I pay for hulu without ads because we watch enough hulu for
             | that to make sense. But I watch probably a handful of
             | videos on youtube a month. I can't really justify paying
             | for youtube premium in that case.
        
             | anvic wrote:
             | I don't say "just let me pay". I really just want free
             | things.
        
             | matheusmoreira wrote:
             | They're the ones sending us videos free of charge. They're
             | doing it _assuming_ we 're gonna look at all this noise.
             | Unfortunately for them, their assumptions aren't gonna
             | hold. We're just gonna delete the parts we don't want. Just
             | like we can rip out the ad pages on a magazine and throw
             | them away.
             | 
             | Where's the YouTube plan where Google doesn't track me,
             | where I get zero ads, where YouTube itself blocks hardcoded
             | sponsor segments in videos, where YouTube allows me to
             | download videos DRM-free? Because we already have all that
             | without paying them a cent. You want us to pay them to have
             | less freedom and power than we already have? Nope.
        
               | eropple wrote:
               | I mean, this hauteur is nice and all, but typically
               | people pay for things that they want to see continue
               | existing. When you aren't paying in money, the only
               | recourse is to pay with your attention. Refusing to do
               | either is just social abrogation.
               | 
               | I pay for YouTube Premium because I won't sit through ads
               | but I want creators to get paid (and apparently at a
               | better rate than without it). I also use SponsorBlock, by
               | the time I've watched a channel's back catalog I've often
               | already signed up for their Patreon. I can't practically
               | do so for every channel, so making sure they get their
               | impression money is minimally just.
        
               | RunSet wrote:
               | https://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2015/10/why-its-ok-
               | to-...
        
               | Gormo wrote:
               | And yet broadcast TV has existed for decades, supported
               | entirely by ads, with no tracking or spyware involved,
               | and with nothing restricting our ability to fast-forward
               | through commercials.
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | > typically people pay for things that they want to see
               | continue existing
               | 
               | That makes things even easier. I don't really want
               | surveillance capitalism corporations like Google to keep
               | existing. Therefore I won't pay them for anything, not
               | even with my attention. "Minimally just" has nothing to
               | do with it. Any data they have on me, they took despite
               | my best efforts to deny them. If creators can't make it
               | work without exposing me to this evil, that's OK too. It
               | was never meant to be.
               | 
               | > signed up for their Patreon
               | 
               | Yeah, I think this is the way to go for creators. They
               | get paid _before_ they create _for_ the act of creating.
               | This is the only thing that makes sense in the 21st
               | century. Outdated stuff like ads and copyright needs to
               | go, if they refuse we 'll force them out with amazing
               | world changing technology like uBlock Origin, Sponsor
               | Block, Ad Nauseam and the almighty ability to copy that
               | every computer inherently possesses.
        
               | thefreeman wrote:
               | >> it can be configured to skip things that are not
               | simply sponsor spots, stuff like filler, intro and and
               | cards, begging for subscriptions, and so forth
               | 
               | > Amazing! I didn't know that. Now I'm starting to wonder
               | why I ever tolerated this noise in the first place...
               | 
               | This you?
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | Yes. Is there a problem?
        
               | dtjb wrote:
               | Isn't the recourse then to ignore the product? Not take
               | their stuff on your own terms just because you really
               | want it?
        
             | bheadmaster wrote:
             | YouTube provides their content for free. They just don't
             | want to provide that content without strings attached, they
             | want to force their users to watch advertising.
             | 
             | The only way to provide content for free, yet force users
             | to watch advertising, is to lock down users' computers and
             | remove their freedom to control their own computing. That's
             | what most HN users are against, as it goes against the
             | philosophy of free software [0].
             | 
             | If YouTube doesn't want to provide free content, they have
             | all the liberty in the world to remove free content from
             | their site and provide it only for YouTube Premium users.
             | But they don't want to do that, they want to have their
             | cake and eat it too.
             | 
             | [0] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html
        
               | morbia wrote:
               | > If YouTube doesn't want to provide free content, they
               | have all the liberty in the world to remove free content
               | from their site and provide it only for YouTube Premium
               | users. But they don't want to do that, they want to have
               | their cake and eat it too.
               | 
               | If you believe in the philosophy of free software to the
               | letter YouTube can't do as you suggest. If they were to
               | offer a paid only service to Premium members that
               | respects their freedoms, that content should also be
               | freely distributable to others. That undermines their
               | entire business model.
        
               | falcor84 wrote:
               | I don't think that this is a real problem. There's
               | nothing stopping you from downloading a video and
               | emailing it to a few friends, but there's no viable
               | alternative to YouTube as a video distribution platform.
               | If you wanted to take a lot of videos from YouTube
               | premium and share them all with the world without having
               | to worry about bandwidth costs, what are your options?
               | 
               | Torrenting is the only real solution that comes to my
               | mind, but that only works for the most in demand media.
               | If you want the long tail, then as I see it, YouTube's
               | (or similarly Facebook's) infrastructure offers the only
               | viable solution, and there's no alternative to paying
               | them for maintaining this infrastructure, either via ads,
               | or via a subscription.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | > If you wanted to take a lot of videos from YouTube
               | premium and share them all with the world without having
               | to worry about bandwidth costs, what are your options?
               | 
               | I also want to be able to feed, shelter, and educate the
               | whole world without having to worry about costs, but I
               | have no options.
        
               | NoGravitas wrote:
               | Not on your own you don't.
               | 
               | https://giphy.com/gifs/arispool-communism-ferengi-
               | ferengigan...
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | I don't agree that this is true, you don't have to have
               | free _content_ to have FOSS _devices_ , but sometimes
               | your business model doesn't work. I'm not obligated to
               | buy your stuff.
        
               | morbia wrote:
               | When you say 'free content' do you mean free as in beer
               | or free as in freedom?
               | 
               | I agree that 'free as in beer' is not required for a
               | 'foss device', but I don't see how you can have content
               | which is not 'free as in freedom' on a foss device.
               | Without DRM and licensing restrictions, how can YouTube
               | prevent premium users sharing that content with non-
               | paying individuals?
               | 
               | To be clear I am not saying it is right or wrong, just a
               | statement of facts. All I am suggesting is that both
               | business models (ad supported free (beer) content or paid
               | subscriptions) do not respect free software principles.
               | Either way, you are restricting what a user can do with
               | that content.
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | But this is like saying "how can you have non-free things
               | in a supermarket, when anyone can put them in a pocket
               | and leave?"
               | 
               | The propaganda is so pervasive that we believe that
               | people must be made physically unable to steal, otherwise
               | they definitely will.
        
               | morbia wrote:
               | I don't understand that analogy. I've never been to a
               | supermarket without some degree of security, and laws
               | form a deterrent. Sure, we could say that violates my
               | freedom to take what I want (and it does) but trading
               | _some_ liberties are what allows us to have a civilised
               | society where we don 't all steal from each other.
               | 
               | > The propaganda is so pervasive that we believe that
               | people must be made physically unable to steal, otherwise
               | they definitely will.
               | 
               | Are you suggesting that if tomorrow YouTube removed all
               | their DRM and turned into a paid for only service, that
               | content would not be freely distributed to non-paying
               | individuals? Hell, content _with_ DRM is getting
               | torrented all the time.
               | 
               | Again, and I want to stress this, I'm not saying it's
               | 'right' or defending YouTube's business practices. I just
               | don't see how either business model can be reconcilled
               | with the Free Software principles.
        
               | falcor84 wrote:
               | > I've never been to a supermarket without some degree of
               | security, and laws form a deterrent.
               | 
               | For what it's worth, I have been to some unattended small
               | shops (particularly in smaller places around Europe) that
               | are fully trust-based, with just self-service credit card
               | checkout or a money box that you should put the right
               | amount in, and it seems to work. I don't know if it would
               | work for a large supermarket, but I think we are getting
               | there, with the proliferation of self-service, and
               | camera-based technological solutions like Amazon's.
        
               | simondotau wrote:
               | Really this makes perfect sense in locations where most
               | people are honest and the dishonest minority are just
               | pilfering the occasional chocolate bar and not unloading
               | the entire store into a waiting van.
               | 
               | As long as increased levels of theft doesn't exceed the
               | salary they would otherwise have to pay, it's a good deal
               | for the store owners.
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | > I've never been to a supermarket without some degree of
               | security
               | 
               | And I've never seen a video streaming site that just gave
               | you links to download the videos. They all have _some_
               | degree of security, but no supermarket ever tied my hands
               | behind my back on entry.
               | 
               | > Are you suggesting that if tomorrow YouTube removed all
               | their DRM and turned into a paid for only service, that
               | content would not be freely distributed to non-paying
               | individuals?
               | 
               | No, I'm suggesting that _not everyone_ would steal it, in
               | te same way that not everyone shoplifts now. In fact, I
               | will go so far as to say that the convenience of Netflix
               | over torrents is so great for the average person, that
               | they 'd keep paying even if there was no DRM on Netflix,
               | because
               | 
               | > Hell, content with DRM is getting torrented all the
               | time.
        
               | bheadmaster wrote:
               | > If they were to offer a paid only service to Premium
               | members that respects their freedoms, that content should
               | also be freely distributable to others
               | 
               | That's not true, as content is not software.
        
               | bbarnett wrote:
               | Old school TV, and cable companies, lost this argument
               | looong ago. Commercial skipping by a variety of products
               | was challenged in court ; they lost.
               | 
               | They also lost before commerical skipping existed, in the
               | 80s, when they tried, and again failed to get VHS
               | recording of live TV banned, because you could fast
               | forward through the commercials.
               | 
               | Before that, there were attempts to make it illegal to
               | record songs off of the radio, going back to the 70s!
               | 
               | So many attempts were made at this, that many countries
               | have legislation which makes recording off of TV, for
               | personal use, specifically legal.
               | 
               | Democracy has spoken.
               | 
               | In other words, youtube's model of injecting commecial
               | content into freely viewable media, and hoping people
               | won't modify it to their tastes, is a proven failed
               | business model.
               | 
               | Any executive which thinks this is the path, and they one
               | can legally enforce it, is literally delusional and unfit
               | to ply their trade.
               | 
               | All their hand-wavy attempts to get around this, via
               | encryption, via copyright have also failed repeatedly.
               | 
               | This business model is still alive, but control of
               | endpoint is dead, dead, dead.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | Your history is incorrect.
               | 
               | Universal Studios sued Sony over BetaMax not because it
               | was worried about skipping commercials, it wanted to be
               | able to sell movies instead of people being able to
               | record it.
               | 
               | The first lawsuit about programmatically being able to
               | skip commercials which is more akin to the crowdsourced
               | YouTube skipping creator embedded sponsorship was in 2001
               | when 28 studios sued ReplayTV out of existence.
               | 
               | https://www.eff.org/cases/newmark-v-turner
               | 
               | Also see: no cable tv was never ad free except for
               | premium channels like HBO.
        
               | public_defender wrote:
               | I think you're wrong. I'm a big advocate of open
               | computing, but I think that endpoint autonomy is in as
               | much danger as it ever was, if not more. You're
               | describing that legal challenges to market-based or
               | grassroots ad skipping etc. have failed, but consider
               | that the legal route is out of fashion. What companies do
               | now is sell a locked device. See windows on ARM,
               | safetynet, [whatever apple is doing]. I love this click-
               | to-root hack, but it's really a "play 2009 games, win
               | 2009 prizes" situation. Good luck trying this on a game
               | console or an Amazon echo.
        
               | NoGravitas wrote:
               | Don't know about Echo, but I just jailbroke and wiped an
               | Amazon Fire Stick and installed TWRP and LineageOS on it.
               | The exploit to unlock the bootloader has been patched in
               | the latest firmware, but I don't see the arms race ending
               | any time soon.
        
               | public_defender wrote:
               | That's awesome. I have some old kindle fires with
               | lineage. I mentioned the echo because they have been
               | iterating the hardware to make it harder and harder to
               | gain access. For example, I have one[0] where they
               | removed the USB port.
               | 
               | [0] https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Amazon+Echo+Dot+3rd+Gen+
               | Disasse...
        
               | nomel wrote:
               | > is a proven failed business model.
               | 
               | Except in this case, where it's a proven successful
               | business model.
        
               | NoGravitas wrote:
               | > Old school TV, and cable companies, lost this argument
               | looong ago. Commercial skipping by a variety of products
               | was challenged in court ; they lost.
               | 
               | In spirit, you're right. But legally, the DMCA was
               | specifically intended to give the media companies what
               | they had always wanted but been denied by the courts.
        
               | Kiro wrote:
               | I don't understand your point. A lot of people are OK
               | with watching YouTube with ads, and the rest can pay for
               | YouTube Premium. Why would they remove free content?
        
               | bheadmaster wrote:
               | The parent comment was talking about YouTube Premium as a
               | _better_ solution to the ad problem, implying that
               | jailbreaking your system for the purpose of disabling ads
               | is somehow _bad_. I explained how jailbreaking is
               | actually just taking control of your computing, since
               | YouTube already provides the content for free, and wants
               | to monetize it by taking the control away from the users.
               | 
               | YouTube could monetize their content with YouTube Premium
               | _without_ taking the control away from the users, by
               | means of not letting anyone view the content without
               | paying. But they do not want to do that, as providing
               | content for free is what made YouTube popular in the
               | first place. So they lock down the users ' machines.
        
               | Gormo wrote:
               | > YouTube provides their content for free.
               | 
               | But YouTube provides very little content of their own.
               | They are primarily a hosting platform used by third-party
               | content providers.
               | 
               | If YouTube doesn't want to make content accessible for
               | free anymore, it would undermine the use case of the vast
               | majority of people who use it to distribute their own
               | content.
               | 
               | I don't know what their finances and operations look like
               | internally, but I suspect that the revenue they are
               | bringing is enough for them to operate very much in the
               | black, despite some proportion of their audience blocking
               | ads, just as traditional broadcast TV networks have been
               | profitable for decades without having nay mechanism to
               | ensure that viewers are watching commercials.
               | 
               | Perhaps YouTube should just accept that ad blocking is
               | part of the market landscape they operate it, and plan
               | their monetization around reasonable estimates of the
               | actual reach of their ads with blocking taken into
               | account. Potentially undermining their core business
               | model just to increase ad viewership by a few percentage
               | points doesn't seem like a sound strategy.
        
           | matheusmoreira wrote:
           | Imagine paying YouTube not to degrade your own experience
           | only to end up being advertised to anyways by hardcoded video
           | sponsors. Not to mention driving the value of your attention
           | up.
           | 
           | Don't get extorted. The right answer to all YouTube
           | advertising is uBlock Origin and Sponsor Block.
        
         | gureddio wrote:
         | I've got a 2017 LG TV and I hate it. It's always been buggy and
         | some of the hardware was underspecced even for 2017. I was
         | getting ready to replace it but this Jailbreak might buy it a
         | few more years
        
           | stavros wrote:
           | Isn't the panel good? Can you not get a driver and replace
           | the current one? It'll turn it into a dumb TV, which sounds
           | preferable than the current thing.
        
             | gureddio wrote:
             | It's strange - the panel looks good for some content, but
             | bad for others. When there is a solid colour on the screen,
             | you can see banding really easily. I also was seeing a bit
             | of subtle colour flickering when watching HDR content on
             | Netflix.
             | 
             | Otherwise, it generally looks ok, but (and I understand
             | that this may just be a preference) I have an older Samsung
             | panel and I think it looks better.
        
               | meroje wrote:
               | It's the nature of the thing, OLEDs can't display
               | perfectly uniform colours. It's most visible on greys.
        
               | gureddio wrote:
               | Absolutely, it's particularly noticeable on this panel
               | though
        
       | delta_p_delta_x wrote:
       | > "Slide to root" using a Magic Remote or press button "5" on
       | your remote.
       | 
       | This brings back memories of JailbreakMe[0] with 'slide to
       | jailbreak' in iOS 4. I am definitely starring and rooting my nice
       | LG OLED that is currently an ad-filled cancer-fest.
       | 
       | [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JailbreakMe
        
         | jannes wrote:
         | Those were the times :D
         | 
         | They had an entire exploit chain from Safari to root. I can't
         | imagine how much that would be worth today on the black market.
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | New TVs being ad-filled cancer are the reason why I'm holding
         | onto my old HDTV...
         | 
         | Is there a list of LG TVs this works on? If I buy an LG C1
         | today, will this allow me to root it?
        
           | EricE wrote:
           | If you don't connect it to the internet there are no ads.
           | 
           | It still boggles my mind that people connect these things to
           | the Internet :p
        
             | Scoundreller wrote:
             | Until they pick up ads OTA
        
             | delta_p_delta_x wrote:
             | > It still boggles my mind that people connect these things
             | to the Internet
             | 
             | Not particularly surprising, given that cable is dying and
             | most content is delivered over the Internet nowadays. Sure,
             | you can use something like an Apple TV, a Roku, or Fire TV,
             | but most people prefer the convenience of a single device
             | rather than having to buy a _second_ device. In fact, LG
             | TVs come _preinstalled_ with almost all the streaming apps:
             | Netflix, Disney+, Prime Video, HBO Max, YouTube, Hulu,
             | Plex, etc etc.
             | 
             | People _always_ choose convenience.
        
               | themadturk wrote:
               | I connect my (non-smart) TV to my Roku, which is
               | connected to the Internet. I suspect I'll do the same
               | when I get a smart TV. There are minor ads on the Roku
               | home screen.
        
               | rnk wrote:
               | The point is don't connect the tv to the internet,
               | connect with a cheap streaming device you bought where
               | you control what comes through it. You can also replace
               | that device that just plugs in via hdmi with another one
               | if some company goes bad and spams you with ads.
        
             | matheusmoreira wrote:
             | It's not just ads though. It's about control and trust.
             | 
             | Even if I don't connect the TV to the internet, I'll still
             | be subjected to their rules. Who knows what this
             | proprietary software is programmed to do? Maybe they wrote
             | it so the TV will connect itself to the first available
             | network it finds, with or without my consent. Maybe it's
             | programmed to punish me for not giving them data by
             | withholding features that don't require internet
             | connection. This software is gonna do whatever is best for
             | the corporation, my interests be damned.
             | 
             | I want software that does what I want without concern about
             | some corporation's bottom line. Software I can trust.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | peatmoss wrote:
               | It's not just the ads, control, and trust though. It's
               | also about software performance. Holy mackerel my TCL
               | Roku-infested TV is slow. I just want it to turn on and
               | switch to HDMI input. The software apparently feels a
               | strong need to remind me that it exists.
        
             | chris_st wrote:
             | Not a TV, but someone recently reported a GE oven that
             | would not let you use a particular feature (convection
             | cooking, IIRC) until you connected it to WiFi.
        
               | technothrasher wrote:
               | The coffee machine at work begs and pleads to be
               | connected so it can use "enhanced" coffee recipes. My new
               | clothes washer at home also tries to convince me it's
               | crucial it gets a Wi-Fi password.
        
               | mavhc wrote:
               | WiFi that has a route to the internet?
        
             | anonymousab wrote:
             | There were a few TV models a couple of years ago that would
             | stop working after enough time without a network
             | connection. When they reconnect, they're clearly going to
             | download a new cache of ads and transmit their existing
             | tracking data.
             | 
             | It's easy to assume that they'll eventually require an
             | unabridged connection to their own servers for updates, and
             | they will simply send all ad data through the same routes
             | such that you can't block one without blocking the other.
             | 
             | This is too lucrative for manufacturers to pass up. The
             | added complexity also ads more points of failure and drives
             | faster industry-wide consumer upgrade cycles. This is not
             | something that will be fixed in the market alone.
        
               | ferminaut wrote:
               | I can see manufacturers embedding a LTE
               | radio/lorawan/whatever into the devices. Not connecting
               | the device to the internet wont be an option in the
               | future for most consumers.
               | 
               | I give it 15 years or so for the tech to mature.
        
               | GenerocUsername wrote:
               | Silly consumer, you need to install the 5g box closer to
               | your family room
        
               | Scoundreller wrote:
               | My guess is that it will pick up an ATSC signal which it
               | already has a tuner for.
               | 
               | Ads will play at 3AM and the TV will just record.
               | 
               | Or push it through some kind of subcarrier data signal.
               | 
               | TV will be able to triangulate its location by
               | multilateration of ATSC/DVB-T signals. West end of the
               | city will play different ads than east end.
        
               | rnk wrote:
               | You could do it with the helium network now. That's a
               | specific reason to avoid helium - it's the closest to a
               | ubiquitous network that will let people spy on your use
               | of ordinary electrical appliances. Unlike TVs, your next
               | fridge won't need an internet connection to spy on your
               | use.
        
               | technothrasher wrote:
               | It'll just share ads over Bluetooth with your
               | refrigerator that won't turn the compressor on unless it
               | has a connection to the server, so it can determine your
               | cooling subscription is still up to date.
        
               | saidajigumi wrote:
               | _There were a few TV models a couple of years ago that
               | would stop working after enough time without a network
               | connection. When they reconnect, they 're clearly going
               | to download a new cache of ads and transmit their
               | existing tracking data._
               | 
               | Not _quite_ as bad as that, but since I took my Sony TV
               | offline it regularly reboots itself (when  "off") and
               | sometimes needs a "hard" start via the physical power
               | button as the remote on has become unresponsive. I
               | strongly suspect that it's just badly coded, going mad
               | trying to connect to resources that don't exist, filling
               | logs, etc. then failing over.
               | 
               | I so want tracked advertising in all of its forms to be
               | outlawed.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | someguy5344523 wrote:
           | You can also just buy a Sceptre tv, which doesn't even have
           | network connectivity.
        
           | romland wrote:
           | Current version (v2) of "slide-to-root" might not work on a
           | TV from the store. But there are alternative exploits which
           | involve a bit of manual work (not much). One currently in the
           | wild is the "crashd exploit".
           | 
           | You can join the OpenLGTV Discord for more information:
           | 
           | https://discord.gg/W8X3wQ7W
           | 
           | (check pinned messages in rootmytv channel)
        
             | opan wrote:
             | Is Discord the only place they hang out? No IRC or Matrix?
        
         | SergeAx wrote:
         | I have pretty modern (2021) LG WebOS TV for several months and
         | didn't see any ads yet (after I deleted all pre-installed apps
         | besides YouTube and Art Gallery). It is even connected to the
         | Internet (to watch YouTube, obviously). Where do you see yours?
        
           | nonameiguess wrote:
           | I've kind of noticed this, too. I actually use a LG OLED as
           | my primary desktop PC monitor in my master bedroom, mounted
           | to the wall above a standing desk. I don't usually use it as
           | an actual television for basic sleep hygiene reasons, but
           | I've used it more than zero times in the two years I've had
           | it now, and never noticed any ads in any interface (excluding
           | the streaming apps themselves promotion their own content in
           | their apps).
           | 
           | Same thing on the Sony Bravia I have in my living room, which
           | is what I usually watch television on.
           | 
           | But I do run my own DNS server in an OPNSense router/firewall
           | with some pretty strict blocking rules, and it recurses to a
           | NextDNS server that also has its own blocklists enabled. So
           | if these devices are actually using DNS via DHCP instead of
           | hard-coding their own servers, and serving ads from known ad
           | domains, that would do it.
        
       | simula67 wrote:
       | Is there any way to root a third generation Chromecast and
       | install AdBlock for YouTube? I have been trying to use
       | dns.adguard.com for my Openwrt router and it does not seem to
       | block YouTube ads on my Chromecast.
       | 
       | On a side note: the difficulty in blocking ads has shown me how
       | much control I have lost over my devices.
        
         | londons_explore wrote:
         | The Chromecast modding community is very small considering how
         | many devices there are out there.
         | 
         | I think it's a combination of Google having a pretty strong
         | security team (so there aren't many exploits), and geeks not
         | really wanting to use Google stuff anymore.
        
         | POiNTx wrote:
         | I'm using this on my latest generation chromecast, not sure if
         | it works on 3rd generation though. Works great!
         | 
         | https://smartyoutubetv.github.io/
        
         | alkonaut wrote:
         | Is there any way to make a newer chromecast (the 4k/newer model
         | with remote) behave like the old ones? I.e. completely skip the
         | apps interface and simply work like a casting receiver?
         | 
         | I have zero interest in using apps, I just want to cast stuff
         | from my phone. My old (non-4k) chromecast switched to the
         | correct htmi input and started the TV when I started casting to
         | it. The new white one _doesn 't even show a stream_ if you cast
         | to it when in the "app" interface which is its default
         | interface.
         | 
         | Instead you have to use the remote and leave the app interface
         | first (go "out" to the photo/clock/screensaver interface which
         | was default on older ChromeCasts), and only then you can cast
         | to it? Am I misunderstanding something? Is there a
         | configuration option to just make it a "dumb but 4k"
         | chromecast, i.e. so that it boots up in the mode that accepts
         | streaming?
        
           | anotherman554 wrote:
           | I don't know about Chromecast models but using the Google
           | Home app on android I just tried casting to my Nvidia Shield
           | and the Shield started receiving it with no button presses on
           | the Shield remote needed. I don't let the Shield turn the TV
           | on so can't comment as to whether that would have worked.
        
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       (page generated 2022-09-29 23:02 UTC)