[HN Gopher] I spent $3k on a Samsung Smart TV and all I got were...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       I spent $3k on a Samsung Smart TV and all I got were ads and
       unwanted content
        
       Author : ivanvas
       Score  : 260 points
       Date   : 2022-09-28 19:26 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.zdnet.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.zdnet.com)
        
       | pipeline_peak wrote:
       | I've been using Chromecast for 7 years now. A lot of these built
       | in UIs are a pretty miserable experience to muck around in.
       | 
       | To me, your phone is the only thing that should be controlling
       | your TV or sound system. It's nice, it's clean, and I don't have
       | multiple remotes to flop between.
       | 
       | Who wants to deal with gimpy little Linux OS's built into their
       | tv? They're getting too smart in a hyper 1980's sort of way. They
       | provide far more than anyone asked, my TV doesn't need a browser.
       | I can't help but think TVs would be cheaper without them, but
       | built in smart boxes are so run of the mill now that I'm sure
       | it's at most $50 extra.
       | 
       | Incase I come off as a luddite, I think smart ovens are a great
       | idea.
        
       | lamontcg wrote:
       | Seems like there's a market here for a relatively bare-bones high
       | quality TV. Someone could probably start a small manufacturing
       | business around that.
        
       | chrstphrknwtn wrote:
       | How can one buy a simple panel these days? Literally just a dumb
       | display with an HDMI input?
        
       | yread wrote:
       | TVs also seem to consume way more power. I have 48" full hd Sony
       | from 2016 that consumes max 58W. None of the TVs on the market
       | come even close, some consume 3x as much! What happened? Is 4K
       | really that inefficient?
        
         | Melatonic wrote:
         | OLED in general takes more power. But those are rookie numbers
         | compared to my 2013 plasma :-)
        
         | amiga-workbench wrote:
         | Potentially more backlight power draw for HDR? But yeah,
         | generally it takes more power to push 4x as many pixels.
        
       | petesergeant wrote:
       | Hope the EU regulates this so I can -- at least -- import a TV
       | from somewhere that doesn't have this shit
        
       | gw99 wrote:
       | I left my Tizen based Samsung with my ex wife when we got
       | divorced. This was a subtle troll because I am finally free of
       | the fucking thing and she's not.
       | 
       | The last decade of ownership has been hell. Slow laggy equipment,
       | HDCP problems, working but forcibly obsoleted hardware, bugs
       | galore and ads stuffed in your face.
       | 
       | I now no longer own a television and will never own one again.
        
         | Waterluvian wrote:
         | Nobody deserves that, you awful awful person. ;)
        
           | gw99 wrote:
           | Oh she deserved it. And the HP windows 10 laptop with 64Gb
           | eMMC storage.
        
       | inopinatus wrote:
       | Aside from not giving it a network connection, my LG C1 also
       | became a lot less obnoxious when I declined the privacy policy,
       | at which point it disabled most so-called "smart" features. All
       | the image processing stuff still works. Also felt like it starts
       | up more quickly, although I'm not game to re-enable anything to
       | actually measure it.
        
       | _gabe_ wrote:
       | I think this whole thread is very indicative of why programmers
       | shouldn't design a product. I've been reading through the article
       | and comments trying to figure out what "ads" were being
       | referenced and then I finally realized people must be talking
       | about the ads for TV shows and movies...
       | 
       | I think the average consumer would much rather have a TV that
       | they simply connect to their wifi and then get Netflix, YT,
       | Disney+, etc as opposed to hooking up some sort of computer or
       | streaming box via hdmi to get the TV to work. I also think the
       | average consumer doesn't find ads for TV shows and movies that
       | show up on their TV intrusive. I mean, that's essentially what
       | every streaming app does already isn't it? It just shows
       | potential shows and movies. Why would they get upset that their
       | TV does the same thing?
       | 
       | What I do think is intrusive and disgusting is the fact that
       | Samsung will happily take screenshots of what you're watching and
       | send telemetry. The random ads for movies that show up are the
       | least of my concerns.
        
         | snarfy wrote:
         | I ditched cable and went 100% streaming starting with Netflix
         | because they had zero ads. Many of my friends did the same. I
         | consider ads an assault on my psyche and will avoid them as
         | much as I possibly can.
        
       | jakedata wrote:
       | I spent 3K on a 65" 4K conference room touchscreen monitor.
       | Rather than having a built in smart TV function it has a dock for
       | a SFF PC.
       | 
       | It lacks a tuner and don't think it does HDR but it does have
       | surprisingly good sound.
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | A tuner USB key is like $10. Plug that into the PC.
        
       | lifeisstillgood wrote:
       | I went through this process - we bought a "TV" and found it
       | impossible to fight off "watch this" trailers appearing and
       | enticing our little one.
       | 
       | The only solution is to buy "business or gaming monitors" - no
       | built in TV, just connect up a apple box and be done with it.
       | 
       | Even then you can tell Apple is moving from "here is a button to
       | press" to "let us decide what you are interested in"
       | 
       | (Tangent but it's noticeable that the stuff I have bought from
       | Apple Itunes like a kids movie is several clicks away, but the
       | latest movie that I have not bought but will need to pay for is
       | right there on the home screen. No. That's the wrong way round.
       | If I reach up to my bookshelf and the bookshelf needs me to climb
       | a ladder and reach over the books for sale to get to my own darn
       | book, the bookshelf is not doing it's job.
       | 
       | Apple. Be a bookshelf. I paid for a bookshelf.
        
       | barbariangrunge wrote:
        
       | titzer wrote:
       | Consider getting a digital projector instead. I got a relatively
       | cheap one (Dr J mini projector, 1080p) for $60. It...is not like
       | a TV. Works only in low lighting conditions and has some focus
       | issues, but if you just want a big screen with decent resolution,
       | absolutely worth skipping a TV for this. And NO SMART FEATURES.
       | 
       | I'll be upgrading to a better, eventually 4k projector, but it
       | seems like the ad and spam smart crap hasn't hit projectors
       | yet....YET.
        
       | pianoben wrote:
       | When I was a kid, the most frustrating technical challenge around
       | TVs was how to get the VCR clock to stop flashing. How the world
       | has changed since then!
        
         | jabroni_salad wrote:
         | Your parents never asked you to set up a timed recording on
         | that VCR eh
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | bogwog wrote:
       | Besides complaining on the internet, what can consumers do about
       | this? All the TV brands do the same thing, and those that don't
       | simply haven't gotten around to pushing out the firmware update
       | that enables ads.
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | > _Besides complaining on the internet, what can consumers do
         | about this?_
         | 
         | If you're willing to pay a bit more, you can buy commercial
         | TVs/displays.
         | 
         | Amazon lists them under "Digital Signage > Commercial TVs &
         | Displays", for example.
        
         | shahbaby wrote:
         | Vote with your wallet.
        
       | mikestew wrote:
       | _Just give me my Netflix, Disney+, Amazon Prime, HBO Max,..._
       | 
       | All of which are available on an AppleTV, and I assume other
       | less-intrusive devices. TFA comes to that conclusion in the last
       | paragraph, but just in case anyone didn't make it that far. And
       | then, as everyone on this page is going to say, never let that TV
       | anywhere near a network connection. Why anyone would go to the
       | effort of dicking with a pi-hole cat-and-mouse game is beyond me.
       | Plug in a box, remove network access to the TV, watch your shows.
       | 
       |  _...even if it duplicates all the streaming app functionality in
       | the TV itself._
       | 
       | I don't know, Samsung's fuckery aside, does anyone seriously
       | think that using the duplicate app on the Samsung is going to be
       | anywhere nearly as pleasant a UX as the AppleTV? IOW, use the
       | AppleTV (or Roku, or whatever) regardless just for the better
       | experience.
        
         | tssva wrote:
         | ", does anyone seriously think that using the duplicate app on
         | the Samsung is going to be anywhere nearly as pleasant a UX as
         | the AppleTV?"
         | 
         | I in general think the Apple UX experience is pretty awful
         | across all their products with Apple TV being the worse of all.
         | I have used the Samsung interface and it is bad but I still
         | dislike the Apple TV more.
        
           | pb7 wrote:
           | You're probably in the minority with that opinion. Apple UX
           | is wildly renowned for being great and Apple TV is no worse
           | than any of the competitors. The TV input interface is just
           | awkward in general but being able to use an iPhone to
           | automatically fill in passwords, authenticate purchases, or
           | just use as a second remote is smooth as butter. It's another
           | example of how Apple products are better together within the
           | ecosystem. But even if you don't have an iPhone, the newest
           | remote is extremely good. One of the best products they've
           | made in recent years.
        
           | rewtraw wrote:
           | I can't really imagine what you believe is so bad about the
           | Apple TV UX. It's a basic grid of available apps and videos,
           | with an easy swipe to access video settings (subtitles,
           | language, etc). Not complicated at all.
           | 
           | Most streaming boxes have the same basic interface... my
           | usual issue is when one is laggy (e.g. TV built-in, Roku,
           | Chromecast, etc). The Apple TV is buttery smooth, fast to
           | scrub through videos, and never feels limited by its CPU.
        
         | aaronbrethorst wrote:
         | _Why anyone would go to the effort of dicking with a pi-hole
         | cat-and-mouse game is beyond me_
         | 
         | Fun way to pass the time for some folks, I assume.
        
           | cassianoleal wrote:
           | Also the cat-and-mouse mostly happens at the block list
           | level. I just set it up once and my LG TV never shows any
           | ads.
        
         | autoexec wrote:
         | > IOW, use the AppleTV (or Roku, or whatever) regardless just
         | for the better experience.
         | 
         | I've never used AppleTV. Does it come with ads and a bunch of
         | data collection too? Roku collects massive amounts of data and
         | has ads. For example:
         | 
         | "Roughly twice per second, a Roku TV captures video "snapshots"
         | in 4K resolution. These snapshots are scanned through a
         | database of content and ads, which allows the exposure to be
         | matched to what is airing. For example, if a streamer is
         | watching an NFL football game and sees an ad for a hard
         | seltzer, Roku's ACR will know that the ad has appeared on the
         | TV being watched at that time. In this way, the content on
         | screen is automatically recognized, as the technology's name
         | indicates. The data then is paired with user profile data to
         | link the account watching with the content they're watching."
         | (https://advertising.roku.com/resources/blog/insights-
         | analysi...)
        
           | Melatonic wrote:
           | NextDNS is blocking a CRAP ton of Roku tracking for me. Very
           | successfully. And I never get a single advertisement either!
        
         | mattmanser wrote:
         | One remote is inherently better than two remotes. It's
         | objectively less hassle.
         | 
         | The apps are actually mostly identical from experience.
         | 
         | I actually use a PS4 at the moment, and it occasionally forces
         | me to update before I can use the TV app, so even more hassle.
        
           | domy wrote:
           | I have an AppleTV connected to my Samsung TV, and almost
           | never use the Samsung remote. The AppleTV remote's on/off
           | button switches everything together (through CEC I believe)
           | so in everyday usage I only ever need a single remote.
        
             | antihero wrote:
             | Yep, I only ever use the LG remote for turning off the
             | display when I want to listen to music with a blank screen.
        
           | gffrd wrote:
           | Unless, of course, the one remote is garbage, and the hassle
           | of working the system with one remote is greater than with
           | two.
        
           | petesergeant wrote:
           | > One remote is inherently better than two remotes. It's
           | objectively less hassle.
           | 
           | My Apple TV can turn my TV on and off though, so I rarely
           | need to use the TV remote
        
             | dangus wrote:
             | On top of that, people who used the old Apple TV remote
             | with the touchpad might not even realize that there's a new
             | one that fixes all the bad design issues of the old one.
        
         | nevi-me wrote:
         | We have a 45" from ~2013, I used to connect it to the internet
         | in the early days when I didn't have a Chromecast. The UI is
         | underwhelming, and the only times I've used the smart TV
         | features was when a streaming device wasn't working.
         | 
         | I've gone through 4 streaming devices, and I think that even if
         | I get a new TV, I'm likely to continue with streaming devices,
         | unless that TV runs stock Android TV. Even then, it'll reach a
         | point where the firmware is no longer updated.
        
           | gw99 wrote:
           | Yeah good luck with that. I did the same. Then all the
           | streaming devices stopped working suddenly. Turns out that
           | there was suddenly an HDCP compatibility issue which
           | obsoleted the TV instantly.
        
         | ceejayoz wrote:
         | At some point, I fully expect the TVs are going to refuse to
         | work after a month of no internet.
        
           | mikestew wrote:
           | At which point I'm personally content to go read a book (on
           | my network-connected Amazon Kindle, of course). But I'm one
           | of dozens, unfortunately for the rest of you because Samsung
           | won't care about cranky old men and their books, they don't
           | spend money anyway.
        
       | skizm wrote:
       | My next "TV" is just going to be a conference room monitor. Dell
       | has some for like around $1K for a 55 inch and $4.3k for a 75
       | inch. Not sure about other companies, but my experiences with
       | Dell have always been positive so I'm okay paying a bit of a
       | premium absent better alternatives.
        
       | hdjjhhvvhga wrote:
       | I don't understand why anyone would like to connect such a thing
       | to their WiFi. An external device gives you flexibility and
       | control. The built-in firmware gives you ads and tracking.
        
         | kitsunesoba wrote:
         | Yeah, buy smart TVs for their display panels and image
         | processing, not for their smarts. First thing when setting them
         | up is disabling the wifi and bluetooth and _not_ plugging in
         | ethernet, followed by hooking up an Apple TV 4K /Nvidia
         | Shield/PC.
         | 
         | Also worth factoring ability to update firmare without an
         | internet connection when making a purchase decision. Sony TVs
         | for example typically allow updates via a thumb drive.
        
         | ayngg wrote:
         | Because the vast majority of people aren't tech savvy enough to
         | care about ads and tracking, ads and tracking everywhere is
         | normalized.
        
         | equon_ wrote:
         | Most people do that to use integrated streaming apps. This is
         | less expensive than buying an Apple TV/Chromecast
        
           | jonnycoder wrote:
           | I use my Vizio tv for integrated apps. YoutubeTV, Netflix,
           | Paramount+ and Prime Video all work great, except Prime Video
           | will buffer a lot lately but the other apps never do. It's
           | also very easy to enable/disable Viewing Data and Advertising
           | under Menu/Admin & Privacy.
           | 
           | My dad runs Apple TV since his screen is older, and it's
           | marginally better than my Vizio because most of the time
           | YoutubeTV continues where it left off when turning TV back on
           | which is nice.
        
           | kitsunesoba wrote:
           | The cost difference is marginal unless you're buying bargain
           | bin TVs, though.
        
             | Nextgrid wrote:
             | You underestimate how many people buy that ~3k TV on credit
             | and for whom an extra ~150 bucks for an Apple TV is
             | actually non-trivial money.
             | 
             | In fact that's the reason these ads are there - a lot of
             | people can't be convinced to use an external device to
             | escape them. If everyone used Apple TVs/etc, there would be
             | no built-in ads because it's just not worth the trouble.
        
               | kitsunesoba wrote:
               | If I were in that position I think I'd buy a TV that's
               | lower priced but still quite good ($1.5-$2.5k) and spend
               | the difference on a good streaming box. The value per
               | dollar is much better that way.
        
           | scohesc wrote:
           | The funny thing too is that a lot of TV/Cable providers' set
           | top boxes _already_ include built-in apps, so now you've got
           | your TV that does Netflix, Hulu, etc. - then you _also_ have
           | your set-top box being able to do the same thing.
           | 
           | It just makes things so much more frustrating when you're
           | providing support for the less technically inclined.
        
           | suprjami wrote:
           | $3k on a TV but won't spend an extra $50 on a Chromecast?
        
             | cgrealy wrote:
             | It's not just the money. I bought a new LG OLED last year.
             | I didn't care that it had integrated Netflix, YouTube,
             | whatever because I had a chromecast.
             | 
             | But the experience of using the integrated apps is just
             | better. It all just works out of the box, there are
             | basically no ads (some "recommended content", but it's
             | pretty unobtrusive) and I don't need to use my phone or
             | worry about why youtube or netflix have randomly decided
             | not to see the chromecast.
        
         | mattwad wrote:
         | I like having only one remote with my TV. I get minor anxiety
         | when at other people's houses and they have 3-4 remotes or
         | more, and usually only one person knows what they all do (the
         | one that had to set it all up).
        
           | coldtea wrote:
           | it's amazing what 21st century can consider an
           | inconvenience...
        
           | marssaxman wrote:
           | With the Roku stick, you can set up the remote to control TV
           | power and volume. I stuck the TV remote on the back of the TV
           | with velcro so it won't get lost, but in ordinary use the
           | Roku remote is all you need.
        
           | SSLy wrote:
           | I have an Apple TV 4k - LG OLED - Soundbar setup, and it's
           | all controlled via the Siri Remote. HDMI CEC seems to just
           | work.
        
       | Arubis wrote:
       | I spent $200 on a 43" Spectre UHD 4K TV a week ago and it
       | literally doesn't have wifi capabilities. It just reads off HDMI.
       | The end.
       | 
       | WalMart sells their stuff at like half MSRP and there isn't
       | network connectivity with which to exfiltrate your data.
       | 
       | I wish every manufacturer worked like this.
        
       | timothyduong wrote:
       | For my Samsung TV, I connect it to the internet once a year for a
       | firmware/software upgrade.
       | 
       | Outside of that, any TV in my house is connected to an AppleTV.
       | HDMICEC is great.
        
       | cantrevealname wrote:
       | The sentiment here on HN is to never connect the TV to the
       | Internet and instead use a digital media player or external
       | streaming device. I wholeheartedly agree. But then several people
       | mentioned wanting to update the firmware. If you'll never connect
       | it to the Internet, then you should never update the firmware
       | either. It goes against conventional wisdom, but updating the
       | firmware in this situation is more likely to cause problems than
       | to bring you desired improvements.
       | 
       | The firmware update might have stricter DRM controls; it could
       | have a tricky new way to exfiltrate data out via your streaming
       | box; maybe the firmware update itself contains some static ads;
       | perhaps in the near future we'll have public wifi or free Google
       | community wifi, and the new firmware will have the smarts to use
       | that and bypass your wifi.
       | 
       | And these days, once you update the firmware, you often cannot
       | revert back to earlier firmware.
        
         | tpxl wrote:
         | > perhaps in the near future we'll have public wifi or free
         | Google community wifi, and the new firmware will have the
         | smarts to use that and bypass your wifi.
         | 
         | Xfinity WiFi has been around for at least 8 years. Amazon
         | sidewalk has been around for over a year. Wanna bet those are
         | or will be used by your smart TV producers to connect them to
         | the internet via wifi?
        
           | tenebrisalietum wrote:
           | What makes me think this will never happen is that
           | 
           | - Open Wi-Fi networks are a thing of the past. There hasn't
           | been any around me in a residential area for a long time now.
           | Businesses and workplace lobbies, more likely, though.
           | 
           | - No one is going to just give Samsung free Internet except
           | the hapless consumer by supplying Wi-Fi credentials.
           | 
           | - Samsung might make a deal with providers, but it would have
           | to have unique credentials embedded in its OS and firmware,
           | and I doubt Samsung has the ability to keep that totally
           | secure.
           | 
           | Think about it. If you could get free, anonymous Internet
           | with credentials in a Samsung TV, crackers would be all over
           | that - they'd be searching every crook and nanny for
           | exploits, desoldering NAND and sniffing busses for encryption
           | keys, connecting with Chinese friends to get original
           | datasheets, etc.
           | 
           | Even if Samsung embedded an LTE/5G SIM, eSIM, whatever, it
           | would be hacked to bits. "Get model X of samsung TV, get free
           | Internet with this Linux application". It's not realistic for
           | there to be a network connection that you don't know about,
           | pay for, and have your name attached to.
           | 
           | Of course the p2p network interface that shows up on the
           | Netflix diagnostic screen is concerning, though.
           | 
           | Now if cellular providers start selling TVs, such as AT&T,
           | Verizon, etc. bundling Internet with them, _then_ it can
           | happen.
        
             | bhelkey wrote:
             | Every TV ships with a unique secret key. Secret keys that
             | are used to do anything other than connect to an Ads server
             | are disabled.
        
               | PeterisP wrote:
               | Every TV ships with a non-unique secret key and an
               | agreement with some major internet service provider which
               | specifies that accounts using that key will gain network
               | access but only to a specific list of IP addresses that
               | host or proxy firmware updates and advertising content.
        
             | nwiswell wrote:
             | > No one is going to just give Samsung free Internet except
             | the hapless consumer by supplying Wi-Fi credentials.
             | 
             | I think it's implied that Samsung would pay Amazon for
             | Sidewalk access.
             | 
             | > Samsung might make a deal with providers, but it would
             | have to have unique credentials embedded in its OS and
             | firmware, and I doubt Samsung has the ability to keep that
             | totally secure.
             | 
             | I don't think this is as hard a problem as you're making it
             | sound. Each TV ships with a serial number, let's suppose;
             | it tries to handshake with the Sidewalk network. Sidewalk
             | phones home to Amazon, Amazon talks to Samsung, Samsung
             | says "yes, we sold that S/N recently and it has never
             | connected before, here's its public key".
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | _Open Wi-Fi networks are a thing of the past._
             | 
             | I've been to two medical facilities and a large regional
             | hospital in the last week where there were open wifi
             | networks with no portals. My apartment building operates an
             | open wifi network for guests so we don't have to bother
             | giving out passwords to visitors. An airport I visited last
             | month has wide open wifi. A see ads on transit buses all
             | the time stating that the bus has wifi. I suspect that is
             | wide open because the transit agency didn't want to deal
             | with tech support.
             | 
             | Open wifi is _far_ from a thing of the past.
        
               | AtlasBarfed wrote:
               | And there are long wifi IoT networks supported by proof-
               | of-coverage cryptocurrencies.
        
               | the_snooze wrote:
               | It's pretty common for public networks to still have a
               | captive portal to get the user to view an ad or click "I
               | agree" before actually granting full connectivity.
        
               | vkou wrote:
               | It's a thing of the past in residential areas. There are
               | ~80 wifi networks that I can detect from my apartment,
               | _and not a single one of them is open_.
        
         | sgtnoodle wrote:
         | Firmware updates may resolve HDMI compatibilities, though, and
         | in my mind it's always worth the risk even if there's a 10%
         | chance of improvement because HDMI reliability is terrible.
         | 
         | When I mounted my TV, I embedded a single HDMI cable, a single
         | cat5e cable, and a single optical cable in the wall. Conduit
         | wasn't an option due to the age and construction of the wall,
         | so changing it would require power tools and drywall mud.
         | 
         | I have a sound bar rather than a receiver because it makes my
         | wife happy. The sound bar works best with ARC. Optical works
         | too, but power and volume isn't synchronized.
         | 
         | I have an NVIDIA shield mounted behind the TV because the TV's
         | software stack got too lethargic, and the TV's built-in decoder
         | has silicon bugs that break video in Netflix, and break
         | surround sound in everything but Netflix.
         | 
         | Surprisingly, everything works reliably about 95% of the time.
         | It's unfortunate that I consider that a win. I just added a 4-1
         | HDMI splitter with ARC passthrough in order to get a Blu-ray
         | player back in the mix, and it was boring!
        
           | warble wrote:
           | Wow, never once ever had an issue with HDMI, although I only
           | go 4K at most. I never even considered it a possibility.
        
             | owenwil wrote:
             | I wish I was in your shoes! I also had no issues with HDMI
             | until recent years--but HDMI-eARC is so buggy on Samsung
             | TVs, especially when being used with surround sound or a
             | sound bar. I had no problems before I moved to a surround
             | system/beyond ARC, but with eARC I need to reboot the TV at
             | the wall once every two weeks or it will "forget" it's
             | plugged into a sound system, it's very annoying. It was far
             | worse when I first got the TV and updates have improved it
             | somewhat, but it's still very annoying. I don't hold out
             | hope for Samsung updating the TV for much longer, my last
             | one from them they abandoned it after the first year. :/
        
             | sgtnoodle wrote:
             | Sure, the "DVI" subset of HDMI generally works everywhere,
             | although I've had signal integrity issues from cheap cables
             | in the past.
             | 
             | It's all the other stuff that's supposed to seamlessly
             | integrate your components. Audio Return Channel so sound
             | makes it to the speakers regardless of where a source is
             | plugged in, Consumer Electronics Control so you can use one
             | Bluetooth remote for everything, automatic power
             | synchronization, etc.
             | 
             | Even 4k is a little weird, with different HDMI versions
             | supporting different frame rates. I have a Yamaha receiver
             | from 2014 or so that doesn't support 4k, but claims to
             | "support" it; all you have to do is turn off the receiver
             | and it will pass the signal through!
        
         | dn3500 wrote:
         | I had a Panasonic TV about ten years ago that refused to play
         | any content off my home server unless it could talk to its own
         | servers over the internet first.
        
         | clouddrover wrote:
         | > _The sentiment here on HN is to never connect the TV to the
         | Internet_
         | 
         | Once 5G is cheap enough the TVs will come with built-in 5G in
         | order to always be connected.
        
         | asdfk-12 wrote:
         | This is good advice. I kept my 4k Vizio offline until updating
         | the firmware on a whim. The update broke the ability to run
         | 1080p@60hz from my PC, making it effectively useless for normal
         | use. The annoying part about the panel is that it was
         | advertised as 4k but only works at 30hz at that resolution.
         | Cheap, so should have figured.
        
           | p1necone wrote:
           | It might be supported but non obvious, some TVs only support
           | 4k60 through one of the HDMI ports.
           | 
           | It could also be a cable issue, although I believe the option
           | usually shows up on cables that dont support it and only
           | fails once you try to switch.
        
             | asdfk-12 wrote:
             | New cable, tried both ports. The update was the only
             | x-factor.
        
               | Melatonic wrote:
               | Try setting a custom resolution on your PC and mess with
               | the settings
        
         | worble wrote:
         | >It goes against conventional wisdom
         | 
         | Does it? So long as it's not connected to the internet, and
         | generally works, then why would you want to? Whats the risk?
        
           | mikestew wrote:
           | I stay on top of device firmware updates in order to stay
           | current on security patches, lest bad folks come crawling
           | through the connection. I assume that's the "conventional
           | wisdom" spoken of here. But if the TV never goes anywhere
           | near a network...
           | 
           | If it's not a networked device, then the FW update better
           | have enhancements that benefit _me_ , the user, and not
           | Samsung. Otherwise, GTFO with your crab bucket of new bugs.
        
           | nsxwolf wrote:
           | Firmware updates can bring image quality improvements,
           | hardware compatibility fixes, all sorts of stuff beyond the
           | built-in streaming apps.
        
         | pseudosavant wrote:
         | Obviously most users won't be able to do this, but this is
         | exactly the type of reason I use OpenWRT on my RPi-based
         | router. I have a firewall rule that prevents the TV from
         | communicating with anything in the WAN zone. I can still have
         | the TV on the Wi-Fi and still use features like Airplay.
         | 
         | I disable the firewall rule if I want to try updating the TV
         | firmware.
        
           | danielheath wrote:
           | That breaks the built in chromecast, right (since the TV is
           | the one fetching the stream), but I suppose you could plug in
           | a regular chromecast dongle if that matters to you.
        
             | olyjohn wrote:
             | So... do all that work so that you can send all your shit
             | to Google instead of Samsung?
        
           | lifeisstillgood wrote:
           | QQ: how do you replace the ISP router - my cable provider clT
           | out refused to give me the PPP / etc details or I have to go
           | find an RPi with adsl io.
           | 
           | I guess I can solve it but any pointers gratefully rec d
        
             | dn3500 wrote:
             | See if your cable modem has a pass-through mode. This
             | disables the NAT, DHCP, etc and passes the IP address of
             | the cable side of the modem through to one of the ethernet
             | jacks. Then you plug your own router in to that and do your
             | own NAT, DHCP, firewall, etc. I know Arris used to have
             | this, haven't checked recently.
             | 
             | My current ISP has the cable modem completely locked down.
             | No control over DHCP, no punching service ports through the
             | NAT for home servers. Also they've got me double NATed.
        
         | asciimov wrote:
         | Sometimes firmware updates are necessary. I've got a Tcl tv
         | that had HDR issues out of the box that were fixed by an
         | updated firmware.
        
         | shaboinkin wrote:
         | I learned this with my router. I updated the firmware thinking
         | it was the smart thing to do, security fixed and all that, but
         | instead I was greeted with ads for their other products and
         | them wanted to shove their stupid phone app in my face to
         | interact with the router. I then installed OpenWRT and said
         | nuts to using proprietary router firmware.
        
           | EastSmith wrote:
           | I am in a search for Wi-Fi 6 router, can you please name the
           | company I should avoid?
        
         | roody15 wrote:
         | Hmm I like just buying 4k displays with no smart features at
         | all. 65 sceptre works great.. is just a display (does need a
         | sound bar as built in speakers are poor).
         | 
         | No need to fight against your device IMO.
        
           | jakeinspace wrote:
           | Sure, but that's not a very high-end panel. When Samsung and
           | LG make almost all the best panels, it's tricky to avoid if
           | you aren't willing to sacrifice picture quality.
        
             | Melatonic wrote:
             | There are "monitors" even for high end OLEDs
             | 
             | I also considered maybe trying to import a TV from the EU -
             | do they have stronger privacy laws that would prevent this?
             | Panasonic makes some VERY nice OLED TV's out of the country
        
         | agilob wrote:
         | Why even buy a TV then, why not a PC screen or a projector?
        
           | PreachSoup wrote:
           | Because if u want the best oled panel as pc screen, you have
           | to get a tv
        
           | sgtfrankieboy wrote:
           | Because a 32" monitor is small for a TV? and a projector has
           | tons of downsides?
           | 
           | The solution is to buy a commercial TV used in retail
           | environments.
        
             | TacticalCoder wrote:
             | > and a projector has tons of downsides?
             | 
             | I'm not so sure. I've been using a projector as a TV for
             | something like four years straight: no TV at home, only a
             | projector. As a bonus the living room becomes a home
             | cinema. I didn't see much downsides. Zero issue. No ads.
             | Cheaper than a TV for a _much_ wider diagonal and a more
             | "cinema'ish" picture too (I hate it when movies look like
             | cheap sitcoms on modern TVs).
             | 
             | And as many of these are made to show slides and whatnots
             | in corporate settings, ads are a big no-no.
             | 
             | I think more people should seriously consider that option.
             | 
             | EDIT: well I remember one issue... I decided to fix it and
             | it took longer than the time it'd have take to hook a TV.
             | But I did it exactly once, used some fishtape to pull HDMI
             | cables in the system ceiling and family was good to go for
             | years.
        
               | darkteflon wrote:
               | > I hate it when movies look like cheap sitcoms on modern
               | TVs
               | 
               | This really is the trope about LCD TVs that will not die.
               | I blame the manufacturers.
               | 
               | Yes, it looks terrible. It's called motion smoothing (or
               | something like it) and it's often switched on - for
               | reasons I cannot possibly fathom - when TVs are in demo
               | mode and/or in the showroom.
               | 
               | And it is absolutely trivial to disable. Most any modern
               | TV is either fully capable of playing 24p / 30p and 60p
               | at native frame rate, or playing 60p at native, 30p at
               | half-rate and 24p at 3:2 pulldown, in each case without
               | any interpolated frames muddying the native presentation.
               | It looks perfectly great (while 3:2 pulldown is perceived
               | as juddery by some, that's an issue any projector
               | incapable of either 120hz or native 24p would also
               | share).
               | 
               | There are loads of legitimate reasons to prefer
               | projectors over flat panels (and vice versa); motion
               | smoothing is not one of them.
        
               | akvadrako wrote:
               | You sound like somebody going on about how vinyl is
               | better than CDs. Sure, projectors give you that
               | "authentic" cinema look, in the sense of bad color
               | reproduction, especially being unable to show dark blacks
               | like OLEDs can.
               | 
               | The "cheap sitcom" look is objectively better. With the
               | right filters you can reproduce the cinema look; but
               | nobody who isn't already used to it would want to to
               | that, unless you are going for a specific "old school"
               | style.
        
               | autoexec wrote:
               | The "cheap sitcom" look is objectively worse, but it can
               | be disabled on every TV I've encountered so far. If I
               | bought a TV that didn't allow me to disable it I'd return
               | it as defective.
        
               | pb7 wrote:
               | >I hate it when movies look like cheap sitcoms on modern
               | TVs
               | 
               | That has nothing to do with "TVs" in general and more the
               | software smoothing settings that are on by default.
               | Properly configured (takes literally minutes or less one
               | time) using a website like rtings.com for the optimal
               | settings, a TV will look better than a similar quality
               | projector every time, and in greater lighting situations.
               | There's a reason why projectors aren't popular and it's
               | not because people forget about them. Movies on my OLED
               | TV look incredible, better than a cinema frankly.
        
               | OriginalPenguin wrote:
               | I've never seen a great projector that doesn't make a ton
               | of white noise form the fan. Do "silent" projectors
               | exist?
        
               | cgriswald wrote:
               | I've been using a projector in my bedroom because I do
               | occasionally want to watch something while laying in bed,
               | but don't generally like a TV in the room.
               | 
               | Potential problems, all fixable:
               | 
               | Can't see it during the day or when using the lights.
               | 
               | Had to run power and data to the ceiling.
               | 
               | Lower resolution for the price.
               | 
               | Can't use the wall for anything else or need to install a
               | screen; paint choice a potential issue (bad color, too
               | glossy). (Also need a wall without windows that is large
               | enough.)
               | 
               | That said, the pros vastly outweigh the cons for me and
               | projectors have gotten cheaper and better in the near
               | decade since I installed mine.
        
               | tsukikage wrote:
               | It's 2022 and recent projector models are also joining
               | the smart internet-connected advertising hellfest now.
        
             | colinmhayes wrote:
             | > commercial TV used in retail environments.
             | 
             | I got one of these from work, it's not a great solution.
             | First, they're more expensive than regular TVs. Bigger
             | issue though is that there's no remote so changing the
             | volume can be a pain in the ass.
        
           | izacus wrote:
           | Because those tend to not support features people want from
           | their TV - related to DRM, software, connectivity and form
           | factor.
        
         | derefr wrote:
         | The problem is that we're at a point in the evolution of TVs
         | where robust support for HDMI-CEC (especially in combination
         | with ARC/eARC) isn't guaranteed; but might be something you can
         | get later through a firmware update.
         | 
         | When you finally decide to shell out for a sound bar, and after
         | hooking it up, your TV now suddenly takes 30 seconds to flicker
         | to life from sleep, you'll really want that firmware update.
         | 
         | (It's similar to where we were ~5 years ago with motherboards
         | and NVMe boot support. The motherboard had the M.2 socket; but
         | whether the NVMe device showed up in the boot options was up to
         | chance. Often it'd only work in legacy mode but not UEFI mode.
         | But, after a few-months-later motherboard firmware update,
         | things would begin to work the way you'd expect.)
        
         | smt88 wrote:
         | > _The sentiment here on HN is to never connect the TV to the
         | Internet_
         | 
         | Appallingly, this isn't enough to stop the ads. Many TVs will
         | proactively scan for open networks and connect to them.
        
           | midasuni wrote:
           | Do you have links to blogs that show this happening, I see
           | plenty of hearsay, but I know my LG doesn't attempt to my
           | honeypot wifi, I'd love to see proof.
        
             | hedora wrote:
             | Samsung (Dacor) discloses this behavior in their fridge
             | manual; it says it will mesh with Samsung TVs to better
             | target ads.
             | 
             | I'm not about to buy a Samsung set to find out what it
             | actually does in practice. The fridge has deep learning
             | object classifiers and internal cameras; I assume that is a
             | big part of its ad targeting capability.
             | 
             | Note that the fridge has demand response / energy use time
             | shifting features that don't work unless it is connected to
             | the internet.
        
               | wernercd wrote:
               | That's what you get for using a fridge with internet.
               | 
               | I thought they were to keep things cold? That requires
               | internet?
        
               | cassianoleal wrote:
               | There are few things more chilling than certain forums on
               | the Internet.
        
               | tsukikage wrote:
               | > Samsung (Dacor) discloses this behavior in their fridge
               | manual; it says it will mesh with Samsung TVs to better
               | target ads.
               | 
               | ...seriously?
               | 
               | ...we collectively did this to ourselves. We live in the
               | science fiction dystopian future we deserve.
        
               | autoexec wrote:
               | You know all those stories about weird little shops run
               | by suspicious characters but filled with incredible items
               | that end up being cursed. That's every single shop right
               | now. All of our technology is cursed. They will bring you
               | great things, as promised, but always at some hidden
               | price because those items exist to serve a dark master.
        
               | B1FF_PSUVM wrote:
               | > serve a dark master.
               | 
               | They're not in the necromancy business.
               | 
               | Yet.
        
               | autoexec wrote:
               | I wouldn't be shocked if we saw dead loved ones deepfaked
               | into ads before long.
        
           | gw99 wrote:
           | You can crack the things open and unplug the wireless module
           | usually.
           | 
           | If the TV stops working then, well you solved the problem
           | anyway :)
        
           | worldofmatthew wrote:
           | Could that not get their owner arrested for stealing WI-FI?
        
             | vonseel wrote:
             | Are the cops generally investigating Wi-Fi theft in your
             | area?
        
       | gwbas1c wrote:
       | I've been very happy with Sony smart TVs. They are Android based,
       | and don't have "ads." (They do highlight promoted content.) It's
       | very easy to go directly to Netflix, ect. Even the remotes give
       | the services dedicated buttons.
        
         | tempest_ wrote:
         | I also have a Sony Smart TV.
         | 
         | It is ok but "highlighted content" are ads and I am quite sure
         | Android TV is sending every bit of info it can harvest from
         | anywhere to google.
        
       | acchow wrote:
       | In my experience, Samsung TV's are atrocious garbage. LG has been
       | great for me tho
        
       | walrus01 wrote:
       | never, ever give a TV an internet connection, wifi password or
       | dhcp lease.
       | 
       | I realize there are ads on the homescreen of an xbox series x,
       | ps4 pro, ps5, etc but I would much rather deal with those than
       | whatever shoddy operating system TV manufacturers put on their
       | thing.
       | 
       | I have a thousand times more confidence that microsoft and sony
       | will keep their OSes patched and up to date (they have a strong
       | financial/self-interest incentive to do so, for anti piracy
       | reasons) than the junk running on a TV.
        
         | jrib wrote:
         | my parents' TCL TV would blink a white light at the bottom of
         | the front bezel unless we gave it access to the wifi... :(
        
           | etrautmann wrote:
           | Time for electrical tape or desoldering an LED...
        
             | happimess wrote:
             | Nail polish is very handy for this sort of thing.
        
           | rewgs wrote:
           | I assume connecting it to an adhoc network that doesn't have
           | internet access wouldn't work?
        
         | kingrazor wrote:
         | One thing I hate is when things like input switching are part
         | of the TV OS. It can turn something that should be fast and
         | easy into something slow and glitchy.
        
           | Domenic_S wrote:
           | I want to skywrite this comment above Samsung's offices for a
           | year.
           | 
           | I bought their brand-new-tech Quantum Dot OLED. I LOVE the
           | screen, it's outperformed my every expectation... EXCEPT...
           | switching inputs is a nightmare! How is that possible?!?! I
           | still have no idea how to get to an input select screen. I
           | use my Harmony remote to direct-select an input (impossible
           | with the stock remote) or wait for the TV to say, "no signal,
           | choose another input"
           | 
           | I'm completely flabbergasted at how ridiculous it is to do.
        
           | cassianoleal wrote:
           | > things like input switching are part of the TV OS
           | 
           | As opposed to what?
           | 
           | On my LG there's a button for input switching that does only
           | that. It's part of the OS but I don't see how it could be
           | more convenient.
        
             | kingrazor wrote:
             | Something like input switching should operate below the OS.
        
               | cassianoleal wrote:
               | What am I missing? What's wrong with input switching
               | being made at the OS level?
        
         | Kerrick wrote:
         | On the contrary, I absolutely love the WebOS that came on my
         | TV, and I use it (connected to the internet) regularly. I've
         | often found myself watching YouTube and even browsing NPR and
         | HN (using a TV remote as the only input device) on the TV
         | rather than using my laptop, desktop, or even my iPhone. It's
         | also open source [0] and you can develop your own software for
         | it [1] without needing to submit that software to their app
         | store [2] (though you can do that too [3]).
         | 
         | [0]: https://www.webosose.org
         | 
         | [1]: https://webostv.developer.lge.com
         | 
         | [2]: https://webostv.developer.lge.com/develop/getting-
         | started/de...
         | 
         | [3]: https://webostv.developer.lge.com/distribute/app-approval-
         | pr...
        
           | RajT88 wrote:
           | I'll be shopping for a new big TV in the near future, and I
           | am an HP TouchPad owner as well.
           | 
           | How difficult has nerfing the ads been on a WebOS TV? That is
           | the only thing keeping me away from an LG -- I want a TV
           | which I don't have to fight.
        
             | cgrealy wrote:
             | I have an LG TV with WebOS. It's connected to the internet
             | and I use it to watch Netflix, Prime, etc.
             | 
             | There's a "recommended" strip on the home page that shows
             | various movies/tv shows from streaming services, and that's
             | pretty much it as far as ads go.
        
             | callahad wrote:
             | I bought an LG C2 earlier this year. The ads are impossible
             | to remove, but sufficiently avoidable that I do not regret
             | the purchase.
             | 
             | There _is_ an option to run as a dumb panel, but I haven 't
             | tried using it that way.
             | 
             | Setting the TV up normally requires accepting a
             | disconcerting number of EULAs. You can choose to decline
             | some individual terms at the cost of disabling features
             | like voice recognition, but others are required.
             | 
             | The TV's home screen is rife with advertisements, mainly in
             | the form of pre-loaded apps and mandatory content sections
             | like "Top Picks for You" or "Sports Alert." The Verge has
             | screenshots at
             | https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/11/22223767/lg-webos-6-tv-
             | so.... These cannot all be hidden or moved below the fold.
             | 
             | The home screen ads _really_ bothered me when I first
             | unboxed the TV. It was new, and I wanted to explore
             | everything it could do. Once the novelty wore off and I
             | stopped giving a damn about the smart features, it stopped
             | being a problem. For example: you never have to see the
             | home screen. If you 're not hooked up to cable or an
             | antenna, the TV boots into a screensaver (a Rothko-esque
             | slideshow by default) from which you can summon an app
             | switcher and jump directly to Netflix / YouTube / etc. This
             | skips the home screen altogether, so you never see those
             | ads. System menus are free from ads to the best of my
             | recollection.
             | 
             | I remain vaguely concerned about background data collection
             | and telemetry.
        
             | Kerrick wrote:
             | Most (all?) of the ads can be disabled in the settings. The
             | built-in web browser even includes ad-blocking and cookie
             | blocking options.
             | 
             | General -> AI Service -> AI Recommendation: turn off
             | "Who.Where.What?" and "Content Recommendations" and
             | "Network-Based Personalization Recommendations"
             | 
             | General -> Home Settings: turn off "Home Promotion"
             | 
             | General -> Additional Settings: turn off "Live Plus" and
             | turn on "Do Not Sell My Personal InformationA
             | 
             | General -> Additional Settings -> Advertisement: turn on
             | "Limit AD Tracking"
        
         | BiteCode_dev wrote:
         | +1. I bought a samsung premiere projector, and it's a very good
         | product. But the first thing it did was prompting me for the
         | wifi, and hell no.
         | 
         | It's offline, plugged to a real computer that has internet
         | access and I skip the projector home page as quickly as I can
         | to get to the laptop mirrored displays.
        
         | Alex3917 wrote:
         | > never, ever give a TV an internet connection, wifi password
         | or dhcp lease.
         | 
         | The problem is that it's becoming unavoidable. Right now the
         | only oven with a good Consumer Reports rating requires a Wi-Fi
         | connection, so it's either get that model or another one with a
         | significantly worse rating.
        
           | InitialLastName wrote:
           | Or find a reviewer who values the same things you do?
           | 
           | I have to think there's an acceptable oven on the market that
           | doesn't have a Wi-Fi requirement. I bought a GE Adora oven a
           | few years ago and it has been exactly as perfectly
           | uncomplicated an oven as I've ever wanted; it was even easy
           | to replace the handle when I broke it off in a moment of poor
           | judgement. It looks like those are still available, and don't
           | require any Wi-Fi access.
        
           | cbozeman wrote:
           | > Right now the only oven with a good Consumer Reports rating
           | requires a Wi-Fi connection, so it's either get that model or
           | another one with a significantly worse rating.
           | 
           | I guarantee you Wolf, Sub-Zero, and Viking do not require Wi-
           | Fi connections.
        
           | account-5 wrote:
           | What for? Genuine question, what reason does an oven need an
           | internet connection for?
           | 
           | If I bought an oven and it required an internet connection
           | I'd be getting my money back.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | Melatonic wrote:
           | Or buy a commercial oven. Or used
        
           | walrus01 wrote:
           | I will build a fire pit with cinder blocks in my back yard
           | and roast hunks of meat using a sharpened stick before I put
           | my oven on a wifi network.
        
         | OrangeMonkey wrote:
         | Bought a samsung and a roku tv. I don't know which one it was -
         | but, for one of them, I refused to install internet. And it had
         | a red light that flashed like every 30-60 seconds. I looked up
         | why? "Its the no internet" light and it couldnt be disabled.
         | 
         | I had to cover it up with a sticky note on my nice tv until I
         | finally gave up.
         | 
         | Anti consumer patterns.
        
           | Domenic_S wrote:
           | Get a roll of gaff tape, I block out a great deal of
           | blinkenlights that way, it's great stuff.
        
         | wollsmoth wrote:
         | My vizio runs so much better without a connection. It used to
         | semi-regularly get into a state where the screen was blank even
         | though the tv was on. Because it was a smart tv, powering it
         | off wouldn't actually power cycle it. I had to pull the power
         | cord to reset it.
         | 
         | Now I use a chromecast plugged into it for streaming. before
         | that I used a ps4.
        
           | PreachSoup wrote:
           | My previous Vizio tv botched chroma functionality for pc
           | monitor for 2 years before getting it fixed. It doesn't allow
           | downgrade. Never connect to wifi again.
        
       | dokka wrote:
       | I own this tv, and I had it connected to the internet for a short
       | while. Not only does it have ads everywhere, but the menu is
       | _SLOW_. Taking it off the internet not only got rid of the ads,
       | but also made menu navigation faster.
        
       | jmcphers wrote:
       | I own this exact model -- the QN90A, though in a smaller size --
       | and have had exactly the same experience.
       | 
       | The most maddening advertisement is the one that is forcibly
       | inserted in the menu between the apps and the settings. Using the
       | remote, you must literally click past an ad to switch inputs.
       | 
       | You ... must ... click ... past ... an ... ad ... to ... switch
       | ... inputs. Every time.
       | 
       | Unbelievable for a TV that costs this much. I almost returned it,
       | but as the author notes, the alternatives have worse picture
       | quality and often aren't any better in the ad department.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | cgrealy wrote:
         | Get an LG. Picture quality is just as good, and bugger all ads.
         | 
         | I will never buy anything from Samsung ever again.
        
           | cassianoleal wrote:
           | Likewise. I used to mostly buy Samsung. My latest TV was an
           | LG OLED. Not only I find webOS infinitely more usable than
           | anything I've seen on Samsung TVs, but the image quality is
           | excellent and even the built-in speakers are acceptable after
           | I disabled the crappy AI-assisted stuff that makes it all
           | sound like it's reverberating in a dumpster.
        
         | jason-phillips wrote:
         | If only they could get access to the real estate inside your
         | eyelids, just imagine the possibilities!
        
       | falcolas wrote:
       | Corporate slogan of the 21st century: Why settle for some of your
       | customer's money when you can get all of your customer's money
       | (and monetize their data too)?
       | 
       | Microtransactions, ads, selling customer usage data, up-front
       | costs, PPV, subscriptions... I'm shocked we as customers can
       | actually afford to obtain and use any of these devices anymore.
        
         | Tenoke wrote:
         | A lot of things are sold cheaper than they would be otherwise
         | (including at a loss) because they can make part of the money
         | through ads/add-ons instead. It's customers who have shown they
         | prefer those cheaper on the face of it options rather than
         | those with much bigger up-front cost (which still exist but
         | have been mostly left to business products since only there are
         | enough of their customers fine with it).
        
           | marcosdumay wrote:
           | I doubt this.
           | 
           | Even more because the cheaper products have less lucrative
           | users, and are way less likely to include ads than the most
           | expensive ones.
        
           | titzer wrote:
           | > are sold cheaper than they would be otherwise
           | 
           | They are absolutely not selling $3k TVs at a loss.
        
           | RajT88 wrote:
           | Yep, this I think is implicit in the author's frustration. He
           | didn't buy the cheapest possible TV, he bought something near
           | the top of the range. Premium customers deserve premium
           | treatment.
           | 
           | I would wager the story is the same for the absolute most
           | expensive TV's as well.
           | 
           | What I haven't seen here in this thread yet is the usual
           | suggestion of looking into "Digital Signage" displays, which
           | in addition to being "dumb", some of them come with a place
           | to chunk in an RPI board!
        
         | walrus01 wrote:
         | this is what happens when you let MBAs run amok
        
           | manuelabeledo wrote:
           | Can't wait for business schools to discover that concepts
           | like "consumer loyalty" and "user experience" are quite
           | intermingled.
        
         | BiteCode_dev wrote:
         | You gotta get this unlimited growth somewhere. Remember HN
         | comments tell you it's not a zero sum game, you can innovate!
        
       | fxtentacle wrote:
       | ... plus they typically spy on you.
       | 
       | Like the TV will take a screenshot of what video you're watching
       | via HDMI and upload that for content ID. Or it'll turn on the
       | microphone to listen in on what you say.
       | 
       | Samsung calls that shit "Viewing Information Services". I guess
       | because it informs their headquarters of what you are viewing.
        
       | EastSmith wrote:
       | I wonder what TV units big corps buy for conference rooms, etc?
       | 
       | Imagine you are Google and you buy LG Spy TV, or Samsung Spy
       | Panel. You put it in your conference room, where you meet
       | regularly to discuss next Pixel phone with the Samsung's remote
       | control AI listening to you. Eh?
       | 
       | What products are they buying?
        
       | danbr wrote:
       | I run a pihole on my network for exactly this reason. The amount
       | of network traffic the TV attempts, even when on standby or
       | watching over-the-air broadcast is astonishing.
        
         | titzer wrote:
         | It's a veritable dystopia with these little snitches.
        
         | matbilodeau wrote:
         | I approve, PiHole does a great job at removing ads and other
         | unwanted content.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30655479
        
         | Melatonic wrote:
         | Unless it pins the IP of a DNS server and does DoH
        
       | derflundgren wrote:
       | Just wait till ATSC 3.0. Then you will really be bombarded by
       | ads.
        
       | switch007 wrote:
       | All Samsung devices are trash these days
        
         | IndigoIncognito wrote:
         | facts, after the Bixby button on the S8 above, everything went
         | downhill
        
       | walterbell wrote:
       | https://github.com/RootMyTV/RootMyTV.github.io
       | 
       |  _> RootMyTV is a user-friendly exploit for rooting /jailbreaking
       | LG webOS smart TV. It bootstraps the installation of the webOS
       | Homebrew Channel ... At the time of writing (RootMyTV v2 -
       | 2022-01-05), all webOS versions between 4.x and 6.2+ we tested
       | (TVs released between early-2018 and late-2021) are supported by
       | the new exploit chain._
        
       | scohesc wrote:
       | It's so frustrating. For some consumers, you're dropping multiple
       | paychecks on a TV that you want to just _USE_ - but you can't
       | because Samsung, LG, whoever decided to take money from various
       | companies and shove their garbage advertising down your throats
       | and you can't disable it.
       | 
       | I don't feel like browsing various commercial signage websites
       | for TV's that don't have any advertising in and I don't feel like
       | we should be punished for paying more for this either!
       | 
       | I just want a TV I can turn on - and it doesn't need to load an
       | operating system - it doesn't need to delay displaying actual TV
       | because the computer needs to reach out and upload telemetry,
       | download advertisements, and take pictures of what you watch. It
       | just needs to take an HDMI/RCA/whatever ports, and output the
       | signal on the screen.
       | 
       | There's no expectation of privacy anymore in society - some
       | company somewhere has eked out a slice of the market share, and
       | are pounding their customers with ways to extract more wealth out
       | of you while you sit and take it - the 2 or 3 second delays
       | eating up your life for advertisements you'll never buy things
       | from.
       | 
       | It's depressing - I just want a TV. A plain TV. I'd rather not
       | pay more for a commercial display-tier TV that doesn't have any
       | of this smart crap built in.
        
         | potatototoo99 wrote:
         | There are plenty of plain TVs around though, just like there
         | are plain operating systems, plain phones, etc but consumers
         | still give their money to Samsung, Microsoft, Google, etc. Most
         | people don't care, you are not the target audience.
        
           | coldtea wrote:
           | So, what would be some of that plenty "plain" models with
           | good quality and comparable price?
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | Found a cheap one but it's 720p.
             | 
             | Sceptre 32" Class 720P HD LED TV X322BV-SR
             | 
             | Didn't spent much time looking at Walmart however.
        
               | coldtea wrote:
               | Yeah, taking more about a 50"-65" 4K, with a price at
               | $800 or below...
               | 
               | 32"/720 won't cut it - that's what I already have, and
               | have had for like a decade...
        
               | mikestew wrote:
               | I _sold_ a 42 "/720 close to a decade ago, and we'd had
               | that TV quite a long time. I didn't know 720 panels were
               | still even produced.
        
               | jabroni_salad wrote:
               | Seems to be the way of it. When you start wanting things
               | like 4k, good HDR, or (heavens forbid) low latency for
               | games, the selections get a lot tighter.
               | 
               | Actually, my employer tried to get a Sceptre as a
               | reasonable accommodation for someone with low vision
               | (needed everything to be huge). That panel was so
               | unusable not even the legally blind want to look at it.
        
               | LinAGKar wrote:
               | That'd be a downgrade from my TV from over a decade ago.
        
           | dleslie wrote:
           | Got any Amazon/BestBuy/Costco links for a 65" 4k "plain" TV
           | that lacks advertisements?
        
       | MattDemers wrote:
       | I actually ran into this problem buying an Nvidia Shield Pro;
       | they had _just_ changed the UI to be packed with ads, so I was
       | left wondering what was so great about it (from previous
       | reviews).
       | 
       | Currently a Steam Link (old hardware), and Raspberry Pi running
       | Plex/Kodi are pretty much my setup. Cast things to Kodi, use yt-
       | dlp to download YouTube stuff, or remote into my PC with the
       | Steam Link.
        
       | equon_ wrote:
       | If you are comfortable with configuring DNS settings you can use
       | NextDNS, it works with LG smart TVs. Pi-hole is an alternative
       | but it is a bit more complicated to setup.
        
       | kungito wrote:
       | Somewhat related, ever since I upgraded from old Chromecast to
       | Google TV I'm having issues simply casting from HBO Max or
       | Netflix. First I need to cast once, it would turn on the TV and
       | open the annoying Google TV "app browser". Then I'd have to stop
       | casting and start casting again to actually enter the app I want.
       | Maybe my stick has some hardware problems and/or I'm paranoid but
       | things like these feel like they are just trying to get me to use
       | the Google remote and their app so that they can show me ads and
       | recommend other streaming services (of course Amazon Video is
       | always the first app offered eveb though I never used it).
        
       | behringer wrote:
       | Unlike other brands, my LG allowed me to decline all the crap
       | ware ToS so it's pretty much just a normal non smart TV. It does
       | give a text add for new apps at the bottom usually when a new
       | firmware update comes out.
       | 
       | Not a bad deal imo. Thanks LG.
        
         | corysama wrote:
         | Same. I had to click No a bunch of times. And, dig through the
         | menus to make sure I didn't miss any defaulted-on crap. But,
         | with that done, my LG TVs UX has been great for years.
         | 
         | For many years now my answer for "What TV to get?" has been
         | "Last year's LG OLED." The screens are gorgeous. The UX is
         | good. The differences between yearly models have been minor.
         | The current year is naturally expensive. The previous year is
         | nearly as good and much cheaper. And, the model from the year
         | before that is actually often more expensive because leftover
         | stock is low.
        
       | MBCook wrote:
       | Why did the author dismiss the LG C1 as having the same problem?
       | 
       | I don't remember ads on my CX (outside the App Store maybe).
       | 
       | I still use an Apple TV because I like the interface way better.
       | But it has been a great TV.
        
       | altruios wrote:
       | for smart tv's in general... can we make a public OSOS, to
       | replace shit like this... just make it a Linux box tied to a some
       | ubiquitous AUR equivalent... or are the unique hardware features
       | too varied to overcome?
        
       | legitster wrote:
       | We've had a Roku TV for years and have been extremely happy with
       | it.
       | 
       | The UI is great and it's nice to have everything right there
       | without having to work for it. And as someone without cable, I
       | even come to enjoy some of the internet channels they offer.
       | 
       | My takeaway would be manufacturers do not do good user software.
       | This is true whether it's tvs or cars or fridges.
        
       | alfiedotwtf wrote:
       | Funny, I got a Samsung TV which comes with Samsung TV+ which is
       | their internet streaming service for free. Although I'm
       | fortunately enough to not get ads everywhere (hopefully this
       | doesn't change), the channel are actually pretty good.
        
       | jason-phillips wrote:
       | I worked for Samsung for ten years and will never buy a Samsung
       | product. It's pretty simple, their product support is shit. I
       | will defend the people I worked with in Semiconductor to my dying
       | breath but nope out on the consumer products like they're lava.
       | 
       | Their UI/UX is also pretty atrocious across the board, so I can
       | imagine what their TVs are like.
       | 
       | I have a big 2022 Sony Bravia smart TV and while there are some
       | suggestions on the home page, I would not call them intrusive at
       | all.
        
       | flashgordon wrote:
       | Dumb question - How does one go about (cost effectively) getting
       | _just_ a monitor that has:
       | 
       | * Same size/resolution range as the comparable TV
       | 
       | * Same price range as the comparable TV
       | 
       | * X display ports (combination of hdmi, usb, etc)
       | 
       | * Wifi (and bluetooth too?)
       | 
       | * Audio + ports
       | 
       | * Fine infra-red too for remotes
       | 
       | * Other absoulute hardware essentials i might have missed
       | 
       | Absolutely no inbuilt players or software or bloatware or adware
       | or any of that crap! May be an app (inbuilt or for the phone) to
       | configure presets perhaps.
        
         | evgen wrote:
         | The magic words you are looking for here is 'commercial
         | display' and it will always cost more than a comparable sized
         | TV -- smaller volume of production & sales and the manufacturer
         | is forgoing the revenue stream all of that adware and crapware
         | on the standard TV offers them. It may have audio ports but is
         | unlikely to have more than toy speakers because a commercial
         | installation knows to keep the audio and video separated.
         | 
         | tl;dr you can get something close to what you want but you are
         | going to pay 2X or more for the unit compared to a similarly
         | sized TV.
        
         | snarfy wrote:
         | "Commercial Display" or "Conference Room Monitor" is what you
         | want.
        
       | mongol wrote:
       | Have anyone looked into the service menus of their TVs to see of
       | there are options there to disable?
        
       | sen wrote:
       | Meanwhile the OP post is so full of ads you're basically
       | scrolling past a full-screen (on mobile) ad for every paragraph.
       | Then when I came across a chunk of text without ads and thought
       | it was over, an ad got dynamically loaded into the middle of the
       | text pushing what I was reading down off the screen.
       | 
       | Yes in this case I didn't pay to read the content so they need
       | ads, but the user-hostility of ads everywhere is just insane
       | lately.
        
       | nightshift1 wrote:
       | Those articles complaining about ads are always unclear to me.
       | 
       | Are they saying that there is ads even when you switch inputs to
       | a 3rd party device or is it just in the built-in media player?
        
       | 451mov wrote:
       | "I narrowed it down to the 85-inch versions"
       | 
       | Lol
        
       | sliken wrote:
       | Queue a zillion posts about wanting dumb TVs.
       | 
       | My suggestion is buy a Roku, don't give the TV an IP address, and
       | run Netflix, Amazon Prime, Plex, Hulu, and whatever you want out
       | of one of the biggest channel catalogs out there on the Roku.
       | It's way nicer remote, supports RF (so no pointing at the TV),
       | and even supports using earphones (BT or wired from the remote).
        
         | kikokikokiko wrote:
         | Just plug your laptop to an HDMI port, and use a wireless
         | mouse/keyboard set. I've been doing this for over 10 years, and
         | since 2020 I'm also working from home. Nothing beats a 70 inch
         | "display", my workspace never felt better than on my TV. Using
         | the TV remote to consume content is soooo annoying, and not
         | having the ability to block anything you want (i.e. using
         | Ublock Origin) are absolute deal breakers to me. It surprises
         | me that the average HN user doesn't do the same as I do. TVs
         | are just glorified PC monitors, nothing more. No internet for
         | them.
        
         | alphabettsy wrote:
         | Roku does tons of phoning home, has ads and analytics to see
         | what you're watching afaik. Using PiHole shows tons of
         | unexpected traffic.
        
           | sliken wrote:
           | I don't deny it, but I don't see ads.
        
             | legitster wrote:
             | There's a single ad on the home page for me.
        
           | xienze wrote:
           | So put it on a VLAN with no egress. Smart TVs are annoying
           | but there's ways around it.
        
             | lostapathy wrote:
             | Kinda hard to stream if you don't allow egress.
        
             | harvey9 wrote:
             | Won't it need the egress to receive streaming video from
             | the internet?
        
               | xienze wrote:
               | Sorry, you're right. I was thinking of the TV itself. Yes
               | for a box it's a little more complicated. Personally I go
               | with Apple TV. Much more polished UI than a Roku and
               | certainly no being bombarded with ads.
        
               | Melatonic wrote:
               | Roku has a lot more features. Plus the remote on the
               | Apple TV annoys me. Give me real buttons any day!
               | 
               | NextDNS has been working great to block Roku BS for me
        
       | maxwell_smart wrote:
       | It's pretty annoying too that you spend $3k, and Samsung got
       | probably all of $150 to serve ads to you in perpetuity.
        
       | warrenmiller wrote:
       | Hmm..I would have more sympathy if the article didn't include an
       | advert to buy an AppleTV "ZDNet Recommends: Apple TV 4K" - $179
       | at Apple
        
       | hparadiz wrote:
       | Sony TVs are better.
        
       | noxer wrote:
       | Some years ago I sold my TV because of its annoying UI and ads. I
       | use a large PC monitor instead to watch stuff. Went back to
       | pirating everything so I dont have to worry about whatever DRM
       | garbage comes next or ads or streaming subscriptions etc. Zero
       | regret. I waste way less time consuming media in general. I watch
       | more youtube (with ad block and sponsor block ofc) and I go more
       | to the cinema (expensive but I enjoy it way more than a streaming
       | subscription). I buy merchandise form stuff I like and I go to
       | concerts if possible and that's it.
        
       | jgbmlg wrote:
       | That's only the problem you know about. The problem you don't
       | know about is your TV is watching (and listening) to you. Put a
       | cheap computer between your TV and the internet. Always buy the
       | dumbest TV available. But dumb TVs now cost more than smart TVs.
       | Dumb TVs make it difficult for the manufacturer to make money off
       | you after the sale.
        
       | lizardactivist wrote:
       | Just go into the menues and turn it off.
        
         | ceejayoz wrote:
         | There's no "no ads" option in the settings.
         | 
         | You can turn off _interest-based_ ads, but then you just get
         | less-targeted ads.
        
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       (page generated 2022-09-28 23:01 UTC)