[HN Gopher] DALL*E Now Available Without Waitlist
___________________________________________________________________
DALL*E Now Available Without Waitlist
Author : minimaxir
Score : 256 points
Date : 2022-09-28 16:20 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (openai.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (openai.com)
| MrZander wrote:
| Is DALL-E noticeably better than Stable Diffusion and other self-
| hostable options? I don't see why I would even bother going
| through the sign up process for OpenAI, only to be limited by
| their filters. Seems like they are late to the party now.
| speedgoose wrote:
| Dall.e is much better at understanding what you want. And
| sometimes stable diffusion feels a bit overfitted on some
| prompt (especially with cars).
|
| But Dall.e is often behind in terms of image quality. They are
| nice looking from far, but a bit more blurry or weird than
| stable diffusion if you look closely.
|
| However you can use boths together. These days I tend to use
| stable diffusion first, but when a prompt is not going well I
| copy paste it in dall.e and get what I meant much easily. And
| then I import the dall.e generated image in stable diffusion to
| work it a bit more and get something a bit better looking.
| davidbarker wrote:
| I've run thousands of prompts with DALL-E 2, thousands with
| Midjourney, and probably hundreds with Stable Diffusion.
|
| My (very qualitative) feeling is that DALL-E 2 is good with
| composition and realism (e.g. generating photographs -- you'll
| still get artefacts but it's less likely to look "computer
| graphics-y"), and is quite forgiving (you will usually end up
| with an image that makes sense).
|
| Midjourney had a recent update and can now produce beautiful
| images with far more detail and realism than DALL-E 2 in some
| cases, especially for human and animal faces, but excels more
| on the computer art side of things. (Midjourney now has a
| community showcase gallery:
| https://www.midjourney.com/showcase/)
|
| Stable Diffusion is a bit less forgiving than both, in my
| experience. Some people are able to create stunning images, but
| you have to invest more time into figuring out what works best.
|
| I'm currently looking into taking images generated with DALL-E
| 2, then using them as a starting point for Stable Diffusion to
| add detail. It works partciualrly well for cartoon-style
| images.
|
| For example:
|
| - Original DALL-E 2 image of a horse in a city:
| https://i.imgur.com/CaNHHR7.jpeg
|
| - That image used as a starting point for Stable Diffusion:
| https://i.imgur.com/EW1iKOO.png and
| https://i.imgur.com/VOQ35Oz.png
|
| You can see it significantly cleans up the artefacts the
| original DALL-E 2 image had. (Note: the original DALL-E 2 image
| is 1024 pixels square, but Stable Diffusion generated a 512
| square output.)
| jw1224 wrote:
| Midjourney's recent upgrade was largely thanks to integration
| with Stable Diffusion. Somehow Midjourney's images still
| retain a more "premium" artistic feel to them though.
| mminer237 wrote:
| In my experience, DALL*E has generated much better images, but
| people have varying opinions. Stable Diffusion is more
| configurable, so you might be able to tinker with it to get
| what you want more whereas DALL*E just works pretty decently.
| langitbiru wrote:
| For some categories like realistic people, DALL-E is better.
| LightG wrote:
| Damn, I'm picky ... you want my phone number before even getting
| a chance to try it out?
|
| NOPE.
| 1024core wrote:
| Is this DALL-E or DALL-E 2 ?
| ALittleLight wrote:
| DALL-E's censor really frustrates me. I hit "inappropriate"
| warnings that threaten "If you do this repeatedly you may be
| banned" all the time. Probably one in six prompts I tried on
| DALL-E got this warning. I don't see why a creative tool should
| have such aggressive censorship built in.
|
| One example of an "inappropriate" prompt that stuck out in my
| mind, and I think is pretty representative - I was trying to
| recreate DVD box art of Breaking Bad, but replace the main
| characters with cats. When my prompts were things like "Meth
| dealing cat" I would get the "inappropriate" flag. Frustrating.
|
| I much prefer stable diffusion. Quality is different, but being
| able to generate whatever I want without censorship is an
| enormous benefit. Plus, the cost. OpenAI is far too expensive. A
| friend and I are writing a novel. We wanted to see what it would
| be like to just feed each paragraph of text from our novel to the
| image generator, along with combinations of descriptions. This
| would be a pretty expensive experiment with DALL-E, but it can
| run locally for the cost of electricity with stable-diffusion.
| ehPReth wrote:
| Agreed. I really hate DALL-E's censoring of prompts, I'm glad
| they're losing out.
| murkt wrote:
| Isn't available in Ukraine. Why?.. And it's not like a "temporary
| error, please try again". It just directly states "nope, not for
| Ukraine". "Open"AI.
| ronsor wrote:
| I have a nagging feeling this is their way of "preventing" fake
| war pictures from cropping up.
| vanadium1st wrote:
| I doubt it - GPT-3 is also restricted for users in Ukraine.
| murkt wrote:
| I wonder if Russia is blocked as well. And Belarus.
|
| If they want to prevent fake war pictures, it should be done
| with their NSFW filter. Not with blocking the whole
| (suffering!) country.
| diimdeep wrote:
| FYI, there is filter that prevents to generate political
| content and other nasty stuff
| murkt wrote:
| Yes, I know about their political and NSFW filter. But why
| block Ukraine? Do they think that everyone from Ukraine will
| 100% use this for generating dead Putins, or what?
|
| I just can't think of any good reason to do that. I can think
| of one bad, though
| mourner wrote:
| > generating dead Putins, or what?
|
| To be fair, the first ever prompt I tried out with an AI
| image generator like this is "putin eaten alive by pigs" :)
| It's hard to refrain.
| SSLy wrote:
| I've just tried with a VPN and got to phone number screen with
| an IP geolocated near Kyiv. What's the error you're getting?
| vanadium1st wrote:
| After confirming the ukraininan phone every page gives the
| same error - "OpenAI's API is not available in your country."
| The same goes for GPT-3. They just banned our country as a
| whole. For a ukraininan right now this situation is
| admittedly not the biggest problem in my life. Still don't
| see a reason for OpenAI to restrict our access.
| SSLy wrote:
| Alright, that's indeed incredibly foolish of them. I hope
| the new HIMARS package will sweeten the insult at least a
| bit :^)
| johnfn wrote:
| It's really amazing how DALL-E missed the boat. When it was
| launched, it was a truly amazing service that had no equal. In
| the months since then, both Midjourney and Stable Diffusion
| emerged and got to the point where they produce images of equal
| or better quality than DALL-E. And you didn't have to wait in a
| long waitlist in order to gain access! They effectively gave
| these tools free exposure by not allowing people to use DALL-E.
|
| Furthermore, the pricing model is much worse for DALL-E than any
| of its competitors. DALL-E makes you think about how much money
| you're losing continuously - a truly awful choice for a creative
| tool! Imagine if you had to pay photoshop a cent every time you
| made a brushstroke. Midjourney has a much better scheme (and
| unlimited at only 30/month!), and, of course, Stable Diffusion is
| free.
|
| This is a step in the right direction, but I feel that it is too
| little, too late. Just compare the rate of development.
| Midjourney has cranked out a number of different models,
| including an extremely exciting new model ("--testp"), new
| upscaling features, improved facial features, and a bunch more.
| They're also super responsive to their communtiy. In the
| meantime, OpenAI did... what? Outpainting? (And for months,
| DALL-E had an issue where clicking on any image on the homepage
| would instantly consume a token. How could it take so long to fix
| such a serious error?) You have this incredible tool everyone is
| so excited to use that they're producing hundred-page documents
| on how to get better results out of it, and somehow none of that
| actually makes it into the product?
| fullshark wrote:
| Or maybe they got undercut by an open source implementation and
| that was inevitable no matter what. How can you compete with
| free?
| notahacker wrote:
| It's easier to compete with free (most paid products do) if
| most of the people interested in AI generated art have been
| paying for their service for months rather than browsing for
| alternatives. Especially since their supposed advantage is
| better prompt understanding rather than image quality; easy
| to dismiss StableDiffusion if your first impressions of it
| are "doesn't understand me like DALL-E" rather than "wow,
| this is magic"
|
| The "waitlist" model might work when the product isn't ready
| for prime time or the exclusivity is a part of the pitch, but
| it's greatly overrated in other respects. I got a "The Wait
| Is Over" email to tell me I'm off the waitlist and able to
| use a not-exactly-new stock trading app this week as the UK
| economy crashed. Yeah, thanks, but no thanks...
| skybrian wrote:
| This gets upvoted due to inexplicable DALL-E hate, but on the
| other hand I'm keeping my DALL-E account and cancelled my
| MidJourney account because the DALL-E account doesn't cost me
| anything when I don't use it. Having an account I barely use is
| great because I can go generate an image whenever I want for
| comparison purposes.
|
| (Furthermore, if I don't use it very often, I'm in the free
| tier due to the 15 free credits a month.)
|
| Also, do you realize that Stable Diffusion is also running a
| pay-for-usage model at dreamstudio.ai? I like that too.
| AlexanderTheGr8 wrote:
| Can you link to the hundred-page document? I believe you are
| talking about prompt engineering, and I would love to get more
| information about it. I am struggling with figuring out good
| prompts.
| dqpb wrote:
| I think it's hard to move fast and be the morality police at
| the same time.
| Keyframe wrote:
| I'm still heavily exploring these new tools from an artist
| perspective. I never managed to get a run on Midjourney, but
| between DALL-E and SD there are quite a few differences.
| Broadly speaking, DALL-E seems to better get a hang on
| photographic results and interpreting "what I meant". With
| stable diffusion it's a lot of fiddling and putting manual
| emphasis on certain keywords until just getting it right.
|
| Overall, pricing will need to be adjusted over time as well. I
| set out on an experiment the other day that you can see here:
| https://twitter.com/Keyframe/status/1574338738808934400
|
| I went about trying to utilize stable diffusion for an
| imaginary concept project (concept for characters of a remake
| of TMNT, heh). Process was similar to how I'd do it with
| another artist more than if I drew it alone. It was back and
| forth, from rough outlines and then honing into details.
| Inpainting and img2img helped A TON and I hope I'd get
| dreambooth running soon as well since that will be a game-
| changer in the combination of things.
|
| Between exploration phase, detailing, alternatives, and manual
| painting and over painting, I'd say PER OUTPUT final image I
| created in the region of a thousand or so interim images.
| Process overall did take a lot of time but not as much as
| completely manual and I didn't feel like I had as much control
| as manual of course, but I did feel ultimately bold enough that
| I thought I had creative control. With dreambooth I expect it
| to close the gap.
|
| Overall, I was extremely pleased with the experiment and I'll
| continue exploring it, even though I'm not doing artwork
| professionally anymore. And so far no, it's not going to
| replace artists. It's another tool removing labour, but adds
| time on direction needed. Ultimately it'll be another brush in
| the toolbox.
| shadowgovt wrote:
| It's a little heartbreaking because arguably, OpenAI tried to
| do the responsible thing here: come up with a sustainable
| business model to make AI-generated images profitable while
| respecting trademarks and controlling for some objectionable
| content. Very corporate; very above-the-board.
|
| Emad Mostaque, a millionaire hedge-fund manager with money to
| burn, spent approximately $600,000 to train a model and dumped
| it out for public consumption: no account for how it will be
| used, no concern about any sociopolitical consequences, damn
| the torpedoes and straight ahead. He basically burned down a
| potential industry space and hugely complicated an ongoing
| conversation on how these tools will interact with / disrupt
| the lives and livelihoods of artists... But he also basically
| changed the world overnight. Hashtag-squad-goals, am I right?
|
| There's a lesson to be learned here. I haven't decided what it
| is yet. Though I note that it's a lesson that probably applies
| to few people who don't have $600,000 to set aflame.
| dalmo3 wrote:
| > dumped it out for public consumption: no account for how it
| will be used, no concern about any sociopolitical
| consequences
|
| I hadn't heard the story of how stable diffusion was created.
| Sounds like the guy is a true hero from your description. And
| only for $600k? Imagine if he decided to "burn" the rest of
| his millions on similar initiatives.
| shadowgovt wrote:
| I unfortunately lack the imagination to think of similar
| initiatives that could be addressed in such a fashion.
| mrtksn wrote:
| It's almost as if OpenAI got the right idea at the beginning
| but sometime somewhere maybe in a meeting room, contrary to
| their initial openness goals they decided to be closed walled
| garden for a product that doesn't exist. IMHO giving a prompt
| to generate image is amazing but isn't a product because you
| can't actually produce useful stuff(it's great as an
| exploration tool). It seems to me, OpenAI rushed into
| monetisation and control before having a killer app.
|
| On the other hand Stable Diffusion emerged as a free tool where
| large community can experiment and search for the killer app
| together. People started adapting it into other tools and
| workflows and so far it seems like the magic is in finding
| prompts that make the device generate good quality outputs.
| Earlier today I saw announcement about lexica.art(Stable
| Diffusion prompt tool) getting funded.
| Uehreka wrote:
| >contrary to their initial openness goals
|
| Their goals were never about openness at all though. From the
| beginning I've felt like they should've called themselves
| something like "SafeAI", since their stated goal was
| basically to develop advanced AI first, then keep a lid on it
| until they could somehow ensure it was "safe" or would only
| be used by "good" people.
|
| Sure, OpenAI might sound nicer, but it also drags this
| contradiction into the foreground whenever someone says their
| name.
| metacritic12 wrote:
| Yup, OpenAI is founded by AI-safety-as-a-religion people.
| They're essentially single-issue voters, who believes
| earnestly their issue is the only issue that matters. You
| see analogues of them in e.g. climate change (right or
| wrong).
|
| This religion definitely has a parentalist bent to it that
| rubs a lot of people the wrong way. I vaguely recall them
| floating on Twitter the theoretical idea of whether
| murdering people to prevent AI-takeover is acceptable, due
| to how bad AI-takeover is.
|
| Not surprising limiting access, spying on what its users
| are using their tools for, etc, is acceptable to them.
|
| This is much in the same vein as how for Lenin, the
| eventual triumph of the working class is so important as to
| justify a little bit of interim violence, dictatorship, and
| summary executions.
| Miraste wrote:
| The difference being that climate change activists have
| mountains of data, decades' worth, backing their cause,
| while OpenAI and friends have a sci fi story they made
| up, based on nothing. The whole "AI alignment" movement
| is the worst example of arrogance in modern tech. Even
| the nomenclature screams condescension - the imaginary
| AGI needs "aligned values?" Aligned with whose values?
| Invariably it ends up being the creators', at the expense
| of squashing everyone else's. The DALL-E "acceptable use"
| rules are a dystopian nightmare and they are born of
| incredibly pompous self-righteousness.
| addingadimensio wrote:
| Shutting down nuclear power is also dystopian.
| Miraste wrote:
| Anyone who calls themself a climate change activist and
| supports shutting down nuclear plants is - well, I prefer
| not to use invective on HN, so let's say _extremely
| misguided._
| addingadimensio wrote:
| So the green party in basically every country?
| hwers wrote:
| "They have literally floated the idea of whether
| murdering people to prevent AI-takeover is acceptable,"
|
| Where? I probably believe you but it almost makes me
| worried about the well being of the stability ai founders
| (on a long term horizon)
| metacritic12 wrote:
| To be honest, I thought I saw it somewhere on Twitter but
| can't find it right now after a few minutes of search. It
| was proposed as a theoretical question, not as a
| statement -- like is AI so bad that if you had a time
| machine, it would be worth killing the pivotal people to
| prevent it. Terminator style.
|
| I've modified my OP to clarify that.
| somenameforme wrote:
| Wow, I was about to argue against this 'unfairly cynical'
| take, but it's completely correct.
|
| ---
|
| (2015) OpenAI's original "Introducing OpenAI Post" :
| https://openai.com/blog/introducing-openai/ : "As a non-
| profit, our aim is to build value for everyone rather than
| shareholders. Researchers will be strongly encouraged to
| publish their work, whether as papers, blog posts, or code,
| and our patents (if any) will be shared with the world.
| We'll freely collaborate with others across many
| institutions and expect to work with companies to research
| and deploy new technologies."
|
| (2018) OpenAI's "Charter" : https://openai.com/charter/ :
|
| "We are concerned about late-stage AGI development becoming
| a competitive race without time for adequate safety
| precautions. Therefore, if a value-aligned, safety-
| conscious project comes close to building AGI before we do,
| we commit to stop competing with and start assisting this
| project."
|
| "We are committed to providing public goods that help
| society navigate the path to AGI. Today this includes
| publishing most of our AI research, but we expect that
| safety and security concerns will reduce our traditional
| publishing in the future, while increasing the importance
| of sharing safety, policy, and standards research."
|
| ---
|
| Provides some interesting context to the fact that Elon
| left the company's board in February 2018 over
| "disagreements about the company's development."
| moffkalast wrote:
| > if a value-aligned, safety-conscious project comes
| close to building AGI before we do, we commit to stop
| competing with and start assisting this project
|
| Haha, and then they would proceed to get told to politely
| piss off.
| moffkalast wrote:
| > stated goal was basically to develop advanced AI first,
| then keep a lid on it until they could somehow ensure it
| was "safe" or would only be used by "good" people
|
| That was the stated made up bullshit they spun because
| "we're keeping this walled to figure out how to squeeze the
| most profit out of it" doesn't go as well with their focus
| groups.
| ryanmcbride wrote:
| For real it's insane to me how much I bump up against their
| community guidelines. For example, you'll get a community
| guidelines block if you enter a prompt like "An
| illustration of a computer in the style of Henry Vandyke
| Carter".
|
| removing "Vandyke" from the prompt lets it go through[1],
| but doesn't result in the style I want. Because there's no
| artist that I'm aware of that goes by "Henry Carter". The
| middle name is important.
|
| It reminds me of the old 2D Runescape days where the
| language filter would convert "dictionary" to "**tionary".
|
| [1]https://ibb.co/4106mfF
| msoucy wrote:
| My favorite example of an issue like this (the Scunthorpe
| problem) is from the mobile game Kingdom Hearts Unchained
| X. In it, players used Medals based around Disney
| characters, including experiment 626. However, for a long
| time after the game's release, players were unable to say
| that name in chat, because it got rendered as s***ch
| wyldfire wrote:
| Scunthorpe prob [1]. Apparently they couldn't just
| unleash a model to fix this [2]
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scunthorpe_problem
|
| [2] https://www.techdirt.com/2018/08/31/scunthorpe-
| problem-why-a...
| Miraste wrote:
| It's doubly pathetic because of how they frame it:
|
| -We are the world's most advanced AI company.
|
| -Our filter verifiably acts as a simple blacklist.
|
| -You aren't allowed to see the blacklist because it's
| really a "contextual" filter, so you'll have to guess.
|
| -If you guess wrong too many times you'll be banned.
|
| -Using our service more often increases the chance you'll
| hit the number of wrong guesses.
|
| -No, you can't know what that number is.
| Blahah wrote:
| H V Carter
| ryanmcbride wrote:
| I'm out of credits but I'll try that later
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _OpenAI rushed into monetisation and control before having
| a killer app_
|
| They also went for B2B first. Which is weird. Why not
| parallel a B2C app? It could be a subscription or packs of
| drawings. It would generate buzz and give useful data on the
| sorts of things real people type into these systems. I
| bombcar wrote:
| They thought too many of the B2B customers would just use
| the B2C app is what I would guess, but there are ways to
| limit that.
| suyash wrote:
| They might as well change their company name to Close AI at
| this point.
| namlem wrote:
| OpenAI is infected with AI safety brainworms
| dmix wrote:
| AI ethics as a whole has become a bit of a joke.
|
| Any highly motivated group without much to do will seek out
| things to make themselves seem important and necessary.
| pfisherman wrote:
| I don't think it is a joke, so much as misguided. I see a
| lot of focus on technical solutions, when the real
| problems are social. The big research question should not
| be "how can we build a 'safe' system" so much as "how
| should (or shouldn't) we use these new tools and
| capabilities"?
| oefnak wrote:
| I'm very interested why you think an advanced AI wouldn't
| be dangerous?
|
| Assume: - AGI wants to stay alive - Humans can create
| more AIs - Other AIs would compete for the same resources
|
| Then: Easiest way to make sure that they would get no
| more competitors would be...
| ryanmcbride wrote:
| AGI and what we're talking about here are completely
| different.
| astrange wrote:
| That'd be sad if we invented a superintelligent AI but
| still taught it the lump of labor fallacy.
|
| Anytime you see "creating an AI will obviously kill you"
| try reading it as "having children will obviously kill
| you" and see if it still makes sense.
| babyshake wrote:
| My take on this is that AI ethics is really important,
| but just preventing AI from doing certain things like
| creating celebrity deepfakes is somewhat lazy and
| ineffective. A better application of AI ethics is
| developing technology that can reliably detect deepfakes,
| rather than just putting artificial limits in your
| product and acting like that is going to stop pandora's
| box from being opened.
| im3w1l wrote:
| The funny thing about generated porn is that once it
| becomes ubiquitous real leaked tapes become deniable. So
| the possible downside for celebrities is that when they
| _intentionally_ leak a tape to create buzz it may be met
| with a yawn.
| bee_rider wrote:
| Yeah. People are definitely going to abuse Stable
| Diffusion, I'm sure they already are. But I don't really
| know what OpenAI's plan was. It's like they rushed up to
| a Pandora's box, took a peek and shouted to everyone
| "Good news everyone, we taped Pandora's box closed!"
| somehow without noticing that they were doing so from
| inside Pandora's warehouse.
|
| On the other hand, everybody's been saying Pandora's
| warehouse was over there for a while -- it isn't really
| that they are to blame for showing us the way in or
| anything, I just don't understand what they were trying
| to accomplish.
| PoignardAzur wrote:
| That's a fantastic metaphor.
| biomcgary wrote:
| And, based on market share, they are clearly the target of
| a sophon directed by Roko's basilisk.
| gedy wrote:
| I was enthusiastic about DALL-E but the "safety measures"
| are both heavy handed and naive. It gets in the way for
| many normal/reasonable prompts but seems easy to work
| around with various wordplay, so not sure the point. Stable
| Diffusion and others have been much easier to deal with.
| ackfoobar wrote:
| > heavy handed and naive
|
| It's good thing that the "safety measure" is the way it
| is - an afterthought. It means that those ideologues
| haven't yet had influence on the model itself.
| samatman wrote:
| The harm is really hand-wavey and speculative, frankly.
|
| An image classifier calling Black faces gorillas?
| Embarrassing, insulting, has to be fixed. AI pre-crime
| classifiers for police departments? I'm against it,
| across the board.
|
| Do we really care that the image mulchers default to
| stereotypes? It means if you say "basketball player"
| they'll mostly be Black, if you just say "doctor" they'll
| mostly be white males (and probably balding with a
| stethoscope), but this can be qualified easily in the
| prompt.
|
| It just reflects the training data, and the smart thing
| to do is shrug and add enough words to get the image you
| want. It's not trying to throw shade, it literally
| understands nothing, it's not able to understand things,
| just match text prompts to generated images.
|
| Nerfing DALL-E by randomly adding 'diverse words' just
| makes it harder to dial in the image you want. Let's say
| you want a Vietnamese male doctor drinking coffee on
| break in Hanoi, it's not going to help you if 1/3rd of
| the images have "female" or "black" tagged onto it.
|
| It just seems low stakes. We wouldn't come after a human
| artist who happened to paint a picture which conforms to
| simple occupational stereotypes, why should AI be any
| different? It's not like it will refuse to give you what
| you want if you ask.
| shadowgovt wrote:
| Stable Diffusion's creator spent a completely ridiculous
| amount of money to make that free tool.
|
| OpenAI's mistake may have been "planning to have a business
| model;" the alternative they should have gone with was
| "Instead of taking investor money with promises of some kind
| of return, _be_ a hedge fund manager, make $100 million, and
| then set $600,000 on fire with no plan to recoup the cost
| because it 's play-money to you."
| joe_the_user wrote:
| You can't have a business model of "become rich and then
| use money for X". Business _are_ how (a very few) people
| become very rich.
|
| Moreover, there are very rich people already, like Warren
| Buffet, Bill Gates and Elon Musk, funding projects for
| doing good like world hunger, education and _" AI Safety"_.
| And Open AI was a project of this sort of thing,
| originally. The thing is that even very rich people demand
| that the enterprises they give money to be as self-
| supporting as possible and their money is spread fairly
| thin. The only way Open AI could become an AI development
| shop, employing many top developers, was to have the
| financing level of a commercial company. Which means it
| constantly puts out products that don't seem like they can
| make money because AI algorithms don't seem to controllable
| - Open AI seems to only be able to have the first
| implementation of X, not the best implementation. Once the
| basic idea is out, someone else can produce a similar thing
| with a budget that doesn't include a research team.
| shadowgovt wrote:
| Precisely. The road StabilityAI took to releasing Stable
| Diffusion is precluded for most startup companies.
| minimaxir wrote:
| $600k is an order of magnitude less than what it cost to
| train GPT-3 or DALL-E 2.
|
| When that figure came out, the popular talking point was
| how _cheap_ Stable Diffusion cost to make and how easily a
| well-funded competitor could create their own custom
| variant.
| fragmede wrote:
| $600k is also list price for the GPU time spent. As an
| investor in a GPU cloud company the actual cost was
| probably way less than that.
| petercooper wrote:
| _and then set $600,000 on fire_
|
| That seems a bit cynical. While SD's creator _might_ not
| recoup that money directly, a lot of end users have
| benefited from its creation. That money has figuratively
| gone up in flames no more than the time or labor cost of an
| open source developer whose code is used by millions of
| people, IMO.
| shadowgovt wrote:
| It's a bit cynical; my point is that it's the kind of
| decision you get to make when you're the sole owner of
| $100 million and not the kind you get to make when you're
| a startup company founder working with other investors'
| money.
|
| OpenAI wouldn't have been able to do what StabilityAI did
| because OpenAI is incentivized to make return on
| investment; Mohammad Emad Mostaque is not.
| Miraste wrote:
| Stability AI hit over a million users on their paid SD
| implementation, Dream Studio, in less than a month. I'd bet
| they recoup the training money.
| l33tman wrote:
| $600k was the off-the-shelf market value of the GPU time
| spent. They got this time at a much lower rate (according
| to the founder himself) and for the PR and fame they got,
| that money is ridiculously little.
|
| Somewhat tangentially, I speculate that crowd-sourced
| training will become a thing.
| minimaxir wrote:
| > IMHO giving a prompt to generate image is amazing but isn't
| a product because you can't actually produce useful stuff
|
| Making art/weird pictures doesn't have to be _useful_ , as
| that use case is the entire reason MJ/SD went viral.
| hugozap wrote:
| True, but if you can't integrate it into your workflow it
| will stay as a toy (and that's ok)
| cbozeman wrote:
| People are already integrating it into their workflows.
|
| The inpainting plugins with Photoshop and Krita are
| already working absolute wonders.
| nodja wrote:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rA4Ny-QQfg
| lbotos wrote:
| Not sure if you've seen, but the person you are replying
| to wrote a blog post recently on their experiences of
| "getting stable output":
|
| https://minimaxir.com/2022/09/stable-diffusion-ugly-
| sonic/
| mrtksn wrote:
| It is not art and art is useful(we can disagree on what's
| art, the age old question).
|
| MidJourney and others are actually useful for exploration
| but the outputs are not because they can't spit finished
| deliverables to the specs. No one is paying for a picture
| of Mermaid eating marmalade, trending on art station,
| beautiful face, sharp focus, octane 8k.
|
| They are great for exploration, it's just that I don't
| believe this is the killer app for these tools. We will
| find out what's the killer app with Stable Diffusion
| because with Stable Diffusion people can experiment beyond
| entering some prompts.
| danielbln wrote:
| Training your own likeness into the stable diffusion (via
| dreambooth) and then using it is absolutely hypnotic.
| TulliusCicero wrote:
| There are situations where that kind of art is useful
| though. People have pointed out that it could work just
| fine for art for card games like Magic. Probably a lot of
| board games too.
| mrtksn wrote:
| Sure, some people can find it useful but IMHO that's not
| a product, at least a good one. Consider how much more
| universally useful are other products like Photoshop or
| Blender.
|
| I think a major problem is reproducibility and output
| controllability. Rolling the dice multiple time and using
| some of the outputs is not good enough for most
| applications.
|
| Maybe this can be solved at some point but it's not at
| this moment. The advantage of Stable Diffusion is that it
| can be possible for someone to implement it, with OpenAI
| this feature doesn't exist and its not useful until they
| implement it.
| UncleEntity wrote:
| 100% unusefull but is seriously addictive...
| npunt wrote:
| Indeed, "it's just a toy" is often the place these things
| start
| hartator wrote:
| Yes, it does feel they shot themselves in the foot.
|
| Their marketing was excellent, but somehow pushed expectations
| too much and underdelivered. It also felt very elitist. Not
| very tinkers in a garage that this generation of stable
| diffusion feels like.
| obert wrote:
| My thought on timing this is about Responsibility.
|
| I don't think other options put any or so much consideration
| about AI impact.
|
| Perhaps we're just finding out that people don't care. Yet?
| danielfoster wrote:
| For something that is supposed to be intelligent, sometimes the
| restrictions around DALL-E make no sense. My recent request to
| generate an image of two cats sleeping together was not allowed
| because apparently this is "adult content."
| irrational wrote:
| Equal or better quality? I suppose it depends on what you are
| trying to create, but that hasn't been my experience at all.
| hooloovoo_zoo wrote:
| Agreed; SD barely follows prompts at all.
| zimpenfish wrote:
| > Agreed; SD barely follows prompts at all.
|
| I would heartily disagree - I've generated ~6.5k images
| using SD locally and most of them could be linked to the
| prompt they came from.
| itintheory wrote:
| Have you seen a decent tutorial for setting up SD
| locally? I've been using it through huggingface, but that
| seems pretty limited.
| Nimitz14 wrote:
| Official repo is straightforward:
| https://github.com/CompVis/stable-diffusion
|
| Have to admit just started looking into it, mb there are
| better options
| zimpenfish wrote:
| No, sorry, but there's a whole bunch of one-click things
| now, I think?
|
| I'm running it on Windows 10 using (a modified version
| of) https://github.com/bfirsh/stable-diffusion.git and
| Anaconda to create the environment from their
| `environment.yaml` (all of which was done using the
| normal `cmd` shell). Then to use it, I activate that env
| from `cmd` and switch into cygwin `bash` to run the
| `txt2img.py` script (because it's easier to script, etc.)
|
| [edit: probably helps that I already had a working VQGAN-
| CLIP setup which meant all the CUDA stuff was already
| there. For that I followed
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH7ZP0__FXs which covered
| the CUDA installation for VQGAN-CLIP.]
| Caseee wrote:
| You can find a number of different guides over at the
| stable diffusion subreddit, from CLI to GUIs in different
| flavors.
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/xcq819/
| dre...
| hooloovoo_zoo wrote:
| Doesn't 'most of them could be linked to the prompt they
| came from' strike you as damning with faint praise?
| zimpenfish wrote:
| Not hugely - e.g. taking the 38 prompts including "a
| painting by William Adolphe Bouguereau" (which is easily
| the worst of the modifiers for me), 10 of them I'd say
| were "no clue to the prompt". For the 56 Munch images, 54
| were good and 2 were quibbles ("an isopod as an angel"
| had no isopod but did have an angelic human - is that a
| pass or no?)
|
| (Which is probably better than you'd get from a human
| given the exact same prompts.)
| twojacobtwo wrote:
| > SD _barely_ follows prompts at all.
|
| > ...and _most_ of them could be linked to the prompt
| they came from.
|
| You made it sound as if there is almost no connection
| between the prompt and the images and zimpenfish said
| that the majority could be linked, implying a strong
| connection. He/she doesn't have to be praising it at all
| to counter your claim.
| johnfn wrote:
| Which one are you comparing against? I've tried hundreds of
| prompts between SD and DALL-E and get comparable results.
| Midjourney was lagging for a while, but the new --testp
| parameter is really remarkable, which, in my view, makes it
| superior not only to Stable Diffusion but also to DALL-E as
| well.
| yreg wrote:
| My experience is that with prompts that fit into OpenAI's
| limiting content policy DALL-E text2img results are usually
| much better. And I use SD like 95% of the time, so it's not
| the case that I would be more used to DALL-E.
| KaoruAoiShiho wrote:
| I need some examples because I don't really see it for
| the vast majority of usecases.
| yreg wrote:
| Here I wanted to illustrate the game Waffle[0], first
| attempt with Dalle was pretty good, not true for SD:
|
| https://labs.openai.com/s/rCzJwauuiaIj1Pd3IyJGaHS3
|
| Here I wanted an illustration of a nuclear plant in a
| japanese landscape, first attempt with Dalle produced
| multiple good results. I tried SD and MJ (back when MJ
| didn't use SD) as well, had trouble even with multiple
| attempts:
|
| https://labs.openai.com/s/FxhxtMFe3kFS8msV8vekRAJ3
|
| There are others, but anyway I think my examples are not
| important since it will be always easy to cherry pick
| prompts that yield the best results in model X.
|
| In my experience SD is good at producing (especially non-
| photo-realistic) art that looks pretty and DALL-E is
| better at following a specific prompt when I know what
| exactly I want.
|
| Of course I recognise your experience might (and probably
| does) differ.
|
| [0] - https://wafflegame.net/
| gpt5 wrote:
| An easy example of DALL-E superiority is its ability to
| combine two different concepts together.
|
| For example, DALL-E performs extremely impressively on
| prompts in the format of "a still of homer Simpson in The
| Godfather" (replace character and movie as you wish). with
| the other two it's a lot of misses
| avereveard wrote:
| from dall-e: https://i.imgur.com/RHiOjuM.png
|
| I would argue that none of these follow the prompt. they
| all represent a goodfather frame in simpson stile, which
| is not about placing homer in a godfather still.
| bitcurious wrote:
| >An easy example of DALL-E superiority is its ability to
| combine two different concepts together.
|
| This is a con for some prompts. As an example, I asked
| for a painting of an elephant and a dog drinking tea
| together. The result was a dog with an elephant nose next
| to a teapot.
|
| A similar misfire was the word 'porcupine' which drew
| pigs, I guess because porc is in it? Anyway, it's idea-
| blending is a little too aggressive.
| TillE wrote:
| Yeah you're right that Stable Diffusion produces garbage
| for that prompt.
|
| I'd love to see a site with lots of examples of the same
| prompt fed into various models, I assume someone has
| already made that.
| zimpenfish wrote:
| > Yeah you're right that Stable Diffusion produces
| garbage for that prompt.
|
| I dunno, I generated 20 images from that prompt locally
| and got three good ones[1].
|
| https://imgur.com/a/rZ6wOEF
| wunderbaba wrote:
| What? None of the people in these images are even
| remotely recognizable as Homer Simpson.
| zimpenfish wrote:
| What would you count as a pass then? A literal rendering
| of the cartoon Homer Simpson on top of a still from the
| actual Godfather film?
| cbozeman wrote:
| With StableDiffusion I can buy a used RTX 3090 on eBay
| for $650, tell the model to generate 5,000 images, and
| then review each one until I find what it is I'm looking
| for.
|
| Turns out a shitload of misses are acceptable when it
| only takes 4-7 seconds to generate an image from a
| prompt. 5000 generations on an RTX 3090 takes around 7
| hours +/- 30 minutes, by the way.
| johnfn wrote:
| While this is likely true for this specific prompt, I
| think that cherry-picking a single prompt that DALL-E
| outperforms SD on is not _super_ indicative of anything.
| I 've conversely found a large number of prompts where SD
| outperforms DALL-E, either in aesthetic quality or just
| following directions! I think you'd really have to
| compare both of them across a large number of prompts of
| different types to be sure.
| nextstep wrote:
| this is something that people only on HN would write/believe.
| Missed the boat on what? Giving away free images from a prompt?
|
| This is all early days and these demos are neat but the real
| value is yet to be seen. Maybe when this technology is licensed
| and integrated into Photoshop or Instagram or something like
| that.
| miles wrote:
| > Midjourney and Stable Diffusion emerged and got to the point
| where they produce images of equal or better quality than
| DALL-E
|
| I cannot speak to DALL-E's results, as the signup process is
| currently broken (after providing email, name, and phone
| number, was met with "We're experiencing a temporary issue with
| signups due to a vendor outage. We apologize for the
| inconvenience!"), but the Stable Diffusion results I've been
| getting are not just unusable, but downright bizarre... here
| are the four images it produced for "morihei ueshiba doing a
| double backflip": https://imgur.com/a/EvkQpBT
| miles wrote:
| Finally was able to get the signup process sorted (discovered
| that I had to use a different email address than the one I
| had originally requested beta access with); DALL-E's results
| for the same prompt were more human at least:
| https://imgur.com/a/OahhDS4 .
| minimaxir wrote:
| I am surprised OpenAI didn't adjust the price of DALL-E 2 given
| the rise of free/low-cost competitors.
|
| Granted, DALL-E appears to be buckling under demand regardless
| so the supply/demand curve doesn't warrant a price drop yet.
| ortusdux wrote:
| Name brand recognition goes a long way.
| kylevedder wrote:
| I've spent a significant amount of time playing with the
| variety of Diffusion models available and DALLE 2 tends to
| produce much better quality images. The other killer feature is
| DALLE 2 has support for in-fill.
| ericd wrote:
| This has been the dominant story going around, I guess because
| people want it to be true since they're pissed at OpenAI for
| not being so open, but StableDiffusion's text2image is nowhere
| near as good as DALL-E 2 in my experience. DALL-E 2 is
| _incredible_ at that, StableDiffusion is not.
|
| But maybe it doesn't matter, because many times more people are
| playing around with StableDiffusion, such that the absolute
| number of good images being shared around is much higher with
| StableDiffusion, even if the average result isn't great.
| johnfn wrote:
| > I guess because people want it to be true since they're
| pissed at OpenAI for not being so open
|
| This is honestly not my experience at all. When I first tried
| SD and MJ, I did so with a very clear and distinct feeling
| that they were "knock-off DALL-Es" and I strongly doubted
| that they would be able to produce anything on the level of
| DALL-E. Indeed, I believed this for my first couple hundred
| prompts, mostly because I didn't know how to properly prompt
| them.
|
| After using them for around a month, I slowly realized that
| this was not the case, and in fact they were outperforming
| DALL-E for most of my normal usage. I have a bunch of prompts
| where SD and MJ produce absolutely beautiful and coherent
| artwork with extremely high consistency, that when sent to
| DALL-E, give significantly worse results.
| wunderbaba wrote:
| It depends on what you're generating, complex prompts in
| DALLE ("a witch tossing rapunzels hair into a paper
| shredder at the bottom of the tower") blow midjourney and
| stable diffusion out of water.
|
| But if all you're doing is the equivalent of visual mad
| Libs: "Abraham Lincoln wearing a zoot suit on the moon.",
| then SD and MJ suffice.
| enlyth wrote:
| Yes, it's true, I've tried all the available models and
| DALL-E 2 outperforms Stable Diffusion. It understands prompts
| way better and SD sometimes just plainly ignores parts of
| your prompt or misinterprets them completely. SD cannot
| generate hands at all for example, they look more like
| appendage horrors from another dimension.
|
| OTOH, the main limiting factor for DALL-E 2 from my point of
| view is the ultra-aggressive NSFW filter. It's so bad that
| many innocent prompts get stopped and you get the stern
| message that you'll be banned if you continue, even though
| sometimes you have no idea which part of the prompt even
| violated the rules.
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| End of the day. The hands don't matter and pointing out
| that it's worse because of that when the benefits of SD are
| so huge means absolutely nothing.
|
| Dall-E can't even do many of the images SD can so seems
| silly to hold hands up as the AI art tool Turing test.
| macrolime wrote:
| It's not true that SD cannot generate hands. It's a bit
| tricky, but it's possible.
|
| Sometimes hands will turn out just fine and sometimes they
| will suddenly become fine after some random other stuff is
| added to the prompt.
|
| It's clearly still missing a bit in terms of accurately
| following prompts, but it's capable of generating a lot of
| things that may not have obvious prompts. This should
| improve a lot with larger models. I believe SD is already
| working on it.
| lolinder wrote:
| It's not just many times more people, it's also the fact that
| Stable Diffusion can be used locally for ~free.
|
| If I get a bad result from DALL-E 2, I used up one of my
| credits. If I get a bad result from Stable Diffusion running
| on my local computer, I try again until I get a good one. The
| result is that even if DALL-E 2 has a better success rate per
| _attempt_ , Stable Diffusion has a better success rate per
| _dollar spent_.
|
| This also affects the learning curve. I've gotten pretty good
| at crafting SD prompts because I could practice a _lot_
| without feeling guilty. I never attempted to get better with
| DALL-E 2, because I didn 't really want to spend money on it.
| educaysean wrote:
| From my experience there isn't a clear difference in quality
| between the output produced by Dalle2 and Stable Diffusion.
| They both suffer from their own unique idiosyncrasies, and
| the result is that they have differently shaped learning
| curves.
|
| I do admit that I rate the creativity of Dalle2 higher than
| that of SD. It can occasionally create really unexpected and
| exciting compositions, whereas SD will more often lean more
| conventional.
| hwers wrote:
| I genuinely think stable diffusion is better than dalle.
| There's a really obvious ugly artifact on almost all the
| dalle image's I've seen that SD doesnt suffer from.
|
| But anyway, SD is far superior even if you consider dalle
| better per image since you can create 1000 SD outputs and
| just pick the one you like best (which for sure will have one
| that's better than the dalle output you got)
| madrox wrote:
| You're right. History has shown the best quality product
| doesn't always win if there's a "just okay" solution laying
| around that's more accessible. VHS and Windows both come to
| mind.
| diebeforei485 wrote:
| I suspect it was driven by moral panic and not necessarily
| business considerations.
| logicchains wrote:
| Maybe OpenAI is learning the same lesson compiler and runtime
| vendors learned a couple decades ago: it's very hard to compete
| with open source.
| mberning wrote:
| It reeks of "product management". It's getting managed out of
| relevancy.
| datacruncher01 wrote:
| I think the same thing is going to happen to the new models as
| well. Something better and more efficient is going to eat their
| lunch. Maybe we'll see more application specific models and a
| general model sitting on top of that to compost results
| together down the road.
| josephcsible wrote:
| Saying "missed the boat" makes it sound like it was just bad
| luck and not OpenAI's fault, but I'd argue that it was their
| fault. They could have made DALL-E open source; they just chose
| not to.
| Gregioei wrote:
| You do understand how fast this space is moving and how new
| everything is right?
|
| Your criticism is in my opinion not valid.
|
| Do they need to react to the market? Perhaps depends on what
| there goal even is.
|
| Is dall-e 2 fun to use and cost wise totally fine? For me yes.
|
| But I also have people running SD with a hacky webui on some
| good GPUs for free. How many people actually have access to it.
|
| Is there also a good benchmark on which tool is inherent
| better? Because it is also totally fine to have multiple
| offerings.
|
| I really don't sure if you ever seen product development for
| yourself.
|
| Dall-e clearly took the potential misuse risk much further than
| others.
| naillo wrote:
| Just as user friendly as dalle but for stable diffusion and
| more free credits: https://beta.dreamstudio.ai/dream
| Gregioei wrote:
| I did a short test and created already 20 pictures withhe
| same dall e prompt without a result as good as dall-e.
|
| And in another test the faces are super shitty.
|
| Dall e also gives you 4 pictures per credit and dream 1.
|
| So good to have more options I think. Two different
| products feeling different.
| naillo wrote:
| I generally find stable diffusion outputs better than
| dalle so it's surprising you say that. A good prompt
| makes a big difference though.
| Gregioei wrote:
| This doesn't make my experience less true.
|
| But I also played around with sd.
|
| I still think my original comment is valid.
| lairv wrote:
| I think it depends a lot on what you mean by "better
| output"
|
| DALL-E is very good at conceptually representing complex
| prompt. Something like "a bear with a diving mask surfing
| in the ocean, a pelican is sitting on its shoulder",
| DALL-E will immediately produce coherent results, while
| SD requires lot of prompt tuning, and sometimes it's even
| impossible to get it to represent some concepts (I
| haven't tested this particular prompt tho)
|
| SD is good for producing "artistic" images if that makes
| any sense
|
| edit: ok I tried the "surfing bear" prompt with DALL-E 2
| and SD and the results are consistent with my point, I
| put the raw prompt without tuning, and cherry picked the
| best image out of 4 with both models, here is what I got
| :
|
| DALLE-2:
| https://labs.openai.com/s/Q9824QOfXln4r9FLFNM3v9v1
|
| SD: https://imgur.com/a/czcMgiC
|
| For SD, even by tuning the prompt I wasn't able to get
| the diving mask or the bird on the shoulder
| orangecat wrote:
| _But I also have people running SD with a hacky webui on some
| good GPUs for free. How many people actually have access to
| it._
|
| The re
| Gregioei wrote:
| The credits from dall e are still cheap and you get some
| every month.
| matsemann wrote:
| What really exited me about SD was how many creative things it
| was used for because people could modify and use it. Just the
| first week I saw tens of different cool projects here on HN.
| With Dall-E, I have only ever seen prompts+images.
| xwdv wrote:
| It's too late I personally don't give a fuck about DALLE when
| there's better alternatives easily available now, they missed the
| boat. The brand is tarnished IMO.
| draw_down wrote:
| WalterBright wrote:
| I wondered what stable diffusion was, so went to
| stablediffusion.com. The front page gives no indication as to
| what it is. So I clicked on their FAQ page:
|
| > What does Stablilty AI do? Stability AI is building open AI
| tools to provide the foundation to awaken humanity's potential.
| Our values are lived by every team member and shown by everyone
| who excels at Stability AI. They are how we measure ourselves and
| our work. Our vibrant communities consist of experts, leaders and
| partners across the globe. They are developing cutting-edge open
| AI models for Image, Language, Audio, Video, 3D, and Biology. AI
| by the people, for the people.
|
| Still don't know what it does. Continuing to the next FAQ:
|
| > What's our business model? We're a company of builders who care
| deeply about real-world implications and applications. Many of
| our most considerable advances grow from working across multiple
| teams. We are unafraid to go against established norms and
| explore creativity. Our primary drive is to generate breakthrough
| ideas and convert them into solutions. We respect innovation over
| tradition. We trust that our differences make us more robust, and
| so we seek reason within every difference of perspective.
|
| Oh well. I give up.
| xigency wrote:
| Not meaning to be rude, but you may be living under a rock.
| There've been many, many HN posts [0][1] about the open source,
| free to use txt2img and img2img ML model that is Stable
| Diffusion over the past few months.
|
| Though I agree that their website provides no useful
| information at all.
|
| [0]
| https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
|
| [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32665587
| WalterBright wrote:
| > you may be living under a rock
|
| No wonder my back hurts.
| bogwog wrote:
| Stable Diffusion is this: https://github.com/CompVis/stable-
| diffusion
|
| It doesn't have a fancy product website because it's not really
| a product, it's 'just' the model. Developers can use it to
| build a product. The Stability.ai people themselves built one
| called Dream Studio (https://dreamstudio.ai), but there are
| also some free and open source frontends you can run on your
| own hardware if you have a GPU.
|
| I guess your confusion comes from the fact that people tend to
| talk about "Stable diffusion" and not "Dream Studio" or one of
| the many frontends available for it.
| skybrian wrote:
| Yeah, the home page is terrible. They have bigger plans, but
| for now, it's another machine learning image generation tool.
| An easy way to try it out is to get an account at
| http://dreamstudio.ai/.
| TulliusCicero wrote:
| Stable Diffusion is an image generation model that's been
| released to the public at large. If you have a decent GPU, you
| can run the model yourself. (Even without a decent GPU
| technically you can still do it, though it's much slower)
| aetherson wrote:
| Stable Diffusion is an open source image generation AI: it does
| roughly the same thing that Dall-E and others do.
| WalterBright wrote:
| Thanks (to you and the others who helpfully replied).
| Apparently the web page authors kinda missed that completely!
| ayewo wrote:
| Stable Diffusion is an AI model for computer generated art.
|
| https://github.com/CompVis/stable-diffusion
| etaioinshrdlu wrote:
| OpenAI already behaves like big tech. Nothing gets done or spoken
| without PR, marketing, and lawyers having their say. Not a great
| signal for their future trajectory.
| Workaccount2 wrote:
| To me what makes them like big tech is way overcharging for
| something that has a nominal cost to them, on the basis of
| "value produced".
| bogwog wrote:
| How do you build a business if you sell your
| products/services at cost?
| Workaccount2 wrote:
| The cost of everything tech is grossly inflated. Look at
| Amazon, they make an absolute killing with AWS. It's just
| fat margins all over. Google and MS price competitively
| with AWS and happily make a killing too.
|
| Sooner or later though, someone is going to come along and
| say "You know, I'd be fine with a 5% profit margin" and the
| house of cards will fall while the tech bros cry "value"
| the whole way down. You could trick yourself into thinking
| a sharpie is worth $40/mo if you drink enough of the
| "value" coolaid.
| stingraycharles wrote:
| Value-based pricing really is something much bigger than just
| "big tech", and is actually something every business owner
| should do. I'm surprised to find a comment against value
| based pricing on HN to be honest.
| Workaccount2 wrote:
| Imagine plumbers used value based pricing.
| hiidrew wrote:
| I find it somewhat humorous based on their name that they're
| losing exposure to Stable Diffusion, an actual open source
| alternative. Although they created a lot of hype with their
| waitlist strategy. I'm personally partial to Midjourney, the
| discord UI is weird but once you get used to it, just looking at
| other's photos is equally as impressive as creating your own.
|
| Anyways, this space seems to be moving so quickly that it's
| difficult to keep up anyway.
| SanderNL wrote:
| I was on the waiting list for a long, long time. The waiting and
| their "safety" features left a bad taste. Now I can't even be
| bothered.
|
| Thanks Stable Diffusion!
| not2b wrote:
| Just got
|
| "We're experiencing a temporary issue with signups due to a
| vendor outage. We apologize for the inconvenience!"
| savant_penguin wrote:
| "Competition is a bitch" - OpenAI, probably
| Workaccount2 wrote:
| The divide between SD and DALLE doesn't matter for anything
| meaningful. The tech is advancing at a breakneck speed. I really
| cannot emphasize that enough. If SD is behind today, I wouldn't
| even be the least bit surprised if it's ahead in one month from
| now. Or be where DALL-E is today and DALLE just be that much
| further.
|
| I suspect that even in 6 months from now people will be starting
| to see consistently good generation from "worse" prompting. The
| cat is out of the bag on this and running way faster than
| anticipated. Hold on, because the "AI generating fake media"
| thought experiment of the last decade has now officially gone
| live.
| Patrol8394 wrote:
| Trying to signup, but they ask for the phone number ... no thank
| you
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| It's just too late no idea why anyone in their right mind would
| use a pay-per-image tool that modifies what you put into it when
| they can have an unlimited and open local tool.
|
| Turns out all that "waitlist", the ethics lecturing, letting in
| only bluechecks and the larping about how dangerous it is doomed
| your product in the end.
|
| Hopefully the next time someone makes a tool as revolutionary as
| this they'll remember the mistakes of OpenAI.
| tucif wrote:
| Is it really doomed because competition showed up? I'd be
| surprised if they didn't get quite a bit of paying users right
| away.
|
| I get that competing with an open self-hosted alternative is a
| tough sell, but is this really different from other pay vs
| self-host scenarios?
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| Try them both and see for yourself, see how generating 1000
| images via SD feels vs 1000 images on Dall-E 2.
|
| I'd bet one you'll hit 1000 generations much faster than the
| other.
| langitbiru wrote:
| "an unlimited and open local tool" -> Not everyone has GPU or
| powerful machines.
| zaptrem wrote:
| It has been optimized to the point where it now runs (albeit
| slowly) on _four year old smartphones_
| https://twitter.com/wattmaller1/status/1573768941096374274
| LanternLight83 wrote:
| Anecdotally, it runs twice as fast and with 20% lower VRAM
| use on my machines than it did when I first experimented
| with it in the first week after release. I no longer need
| to hyper-optimize memory use (as a layman!) and patch that
| optimized model into web-frontends that don't come with it
| to get it to run on a 4gb card, there are flags now that
| make it "Just Work"(tm). Down from 90s/5122img -> ~35s.
| Exited to try it out on some AMD APU's when I've got time
| to see if that can outperform my dedicated but ancient 4gb
| card.
| bestcoder69 wrote:
| You can use it locally or hosted. The hosted services are all
| cheaper than dalle2. It runs on google colab's free tier.
|
| Also, you can run it locally on a non-powerful machine. It
| just takes longer, but you can also just queue up as many
| prompts as you want and let your machine crank them out at
| its own pace. I use a first-gen macbook air m1 and it usually
| takes ~90s to generate an image with my usual settings.
| naillo wrote:
| https://beta.dreamstudio.ai/dream
| thorum wrote:
| And since SD is open you're not limited to DreamStudio,
| there is a whole ecosystem of other webapps being developed
| like:
|
| https://dreamlike.art
|
| https://patience.ai
|
| https://getimg.ai
|
| Plus integrations into other applications like Photoshop
| and Canva. Open source has such a huge multiplier effect
| for innovation.
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| Artists, creatives and directors who benefit most from this
| do.
|
| For anyone else stability offer a paid web version.
| Gigachad wrote:
| It runs pretty well on my MacBook.
| cptaj wrote:
| It says its not available in my country. Why the region lock?
| vario wrote:
| I was on that waiting list, and when I was finally invited, I
| couldn't log in for unknown purposes--it asked me to apply for
| wait again. That was it for me--life is too short for tech drama.
| hugozap wrote:
| I've tried to contact OpenAI and they never answer. I was excited
| about them in the beginning but not anymore. Looks like they are
| really disconnected from the community and not interested in
| engaging.
| thorum wrote:
| > We are currently testing a DALL*E API with several customers
| and are excited to soon offer it more broadly to developers and
| businesses so they can build apps on this powerful system.
|
| Here's the real news! Just hope they disable the autoban for API
| users. It's one thing to filter NSFW outputs like SD websites do,
| but blocking application API accounts for requests by end users
| would make it unusable.
| simonswords82 wrote:
| Just tried to sign up and it says sign up is not possible due to
| a vendor outage :(
| asciimov wrote:
| Well it's a shame they still want my phone number. I don't wanna
| give some random company my number if they aren't gonna call me.
| smallerfish wrote:
| Plus they disallow voip, which is a problem for me since I only
| have voip.
| lazyjones wrote:
| It's pretty evil to troll people into giving them e-mail and
| name and then have the audacity to ask for a phone number.
| Without giving people who don't want that the possibility to
| delete the previously entered personal data...
| O__________O wrote:
| Agree.
|
| Specifically, signup process is: email, email-verification,
| create-password, full-name, phone. Leaving the process to try
| the login will return you to the request for a phone.
| londons_explore wrote:
| The phone number is to try and stop people signing up
| multiple times to get more free credits.
|
| At least in the USA, getting hold of large numbers of phone
| numbers for free isn't easy.
| arecurrence wrote:
| Indeed as VOIP numbers are banned. However, I know a number
| of people that aren't using DALL-E because they only have
| VOIP numbers (This is an ever growing reality today). They
| got to the phone step and were unable to continue (and
| support never replied to their requests for help).
| mcbuilder wrote:
| When you are competing directly with a comparable free
| solution maybe these hoops don't make sense.
| [deleted]
| Dma54rhs wrote:
| Starts from 1 cent a number, doesn't have to from USA. It
| does add cost I agree, but these things are sold in bulk
| for very cheap.
| O__________O wrote:
| Link?
|
| Even for a one-time-use for verification, last I looked
| for one-off number verifications, it was $1 per
| authentication; to be fair, didn't search too hard.
| pc86 wrote:
| I don't want to give some random company my number _because
| they might call me_.
| dqpb wrote:
| I just want to commend OpenAI for protecting us from the sight of
| breasts. As we all know, breasts are some of the most dangerous
| and corrupting things known to humankind. Unleashing upon the
| world an advanced AI capable of rendering breasts would almost
| certainly result in the complete collapse of civilization as we
| know it.
|
| However, President Raisi is very disappointed by OpenAI's brazen
| and disgusting display of female hair. It's extremely insensitive
| that OpenAI has enforced only a mere subset of the worlds
| cultural mores.
| hit8run wrote:
| F$ Microsoft and their shady move to lock openai. To be honest I
| am not interested in their offering. Yes they were fast. But
| there are also many true open source models available now. I
| don't want Microsoft to decide what I am allowed to do with it.
| Also they hide usable features behind a very expensive paywall
| and limit the budget to something like 25$ per month LOL. So
| actually they are like: "Here is a glimpse of it. But build
| nothing with it for broader audience. We want to see what you
| come up with and then copy paste it into our own products."
| karmasimida wrote:
| With Stable Diffusion fully open sourced.
|
| Honestly, I don't think I need DALL-E right now, as SD is free
| and MUCH MUCH more customizable.
| stephc_int13 wrote:
| Not interested anymore, thank you for nothing.
| nojvek wrote:
| DALL.E == MS Internet Explorer, StableDiffusion == Chromium.
|
| Hard to beat a high quality open source product. OpenAI missed
| the boat on "Open AI"
| mcherm wrote:
| It's unfortunate that they rejected my attempt to create an
| account because my phone number wasn't from one of their standard
| providers.
| lenwood wrote:
| Why do they require a phone number to begin with?
| Bluecobra wrote:
| Same here, I have a Google Voice number and it rejected it.
| Pretty lame, it's not like I am going to be banking with them.
| peanuty1 wrote:
| That sucks, I only have a Google Voice number.
| m3kw9 wrote:
| Now that stable diffusion is starting to eat onto its market
| share they unlock the artificial supply mechanism
| toxik wrote:
| It's a funny world where OPEN AI lost the battle because... it
| wasn't open.
| kwertyoowiyop wrote:
| Crazy talk. Next you'll be saying Human Resources isn't about
| protecting employees!
| evouga wrote:
| Of course not. It's about managing the company's... human
| resources.
| moffkalast wrote:
| And executives are the people you execute if a company goes
| bankrupt.
| soared wrote:
| > We're experiencing a temporary issue with signups due to a
| vendor outage. We apologize for the inconvenience!
|
| I can't imagine how many signups they're getting right now. It's
| almost behoove them to pregenerate a bunch of prompts and give
| people a sandbox version without signing in.
| petarb wrote:
| I wasn't able to create an account either, didn't say why just
| gave me an error. Disappointing after I gave them all the info
| they wanted. Stable Diffusion and Midjourney it is
| a3w wrote:
| I gave them my phone number, only then the signup failed. Well
| thanks for nothing, that is on par with scammers.
| pentagrama wrote:
| Just signed up and phone number verification is mandatory to use
| the service. Don't want to share my phone number with this
| service. Now I'm stuck on the phone number form and can't delete
| my account. Don't recommend.
| davidbarker wrote:
| Apparently sign ups are currently down because of a "vendor
| outage". Perhaps because of the increased load?
|
| Once you're able to get access, I believe you'll receive 15
| credits per month for free. Each credit allows one generation,
| and each generation produces 4 images.
|
| Rather than using up credits trying to learn how to formulate
| your prompts, I ran hundreds and uploaded them to
| https://generrated.com (I posted it a couple of weeks ago as a
| Show HN) -- hopefully they might be useful as a starting point
| and save you some credits/money.
| johndough wrote:
| Thank you for the compilation. Much appreciated! I just wanted
| to mention that the images in the row labeled "pen and ink
| caricature" do not load.
| davidbarker wrote:
| Oops. Thanks! I'm not sure how I missed that. I've pushed a
| fix that should be live in 10 minutes.
| mFixman wrote:
| This is a fantastic project.
|
| I really liked the 16th century Indian painting of an astronaut
| [1], and now I see a role of programs like DALL-E in giving
| people a good intuition on how to identify art from different
| styles and periods.
|
| [1]
| https://generrated.com/?prompt=16thCenturyPainting&subject=a...
| davidbarker wrote:
| Thank you for your kind words. I've learnt a lot about art
| styles while I've been putting the site together -- both from
| the DALL-E 2 generations and research I've done to make sure
| those generations at least somewhat match the style I
| requested.
|
| I'm not sure if you know (it might not be obvious -- my
| fault!) but you can click on a prompt heading to see all 20
| images created in one place, if that's more useful to you.
| e.g. https://generrated.com/prompts/16thCenturyPainting
| Bluecobra wrote:
| This is pretty neat! Can also you use DALL-E mini/Craiyon to
| help with prompts or that going to be way off?
| davidbarker wrote:
| Thanks! I actually don't have much experience with DALL-E
| mini/Craiyon, but I have heard people have taken the output
| of Craiyon and using it as the input for Stable Diffusion to
| improve the quality.
|
| I've been doing something similar with some DALL-E 2 images:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33011336
| jaynetics wrote:
| Some more artists that often seem to yield interesting results:
| Giger, Klee, Klimt.
| daqhris wrote:
| Oh, for sure, they will be useful to me. I got access to DALL-E
| shortly before summer but I haven't played with it due to
| "prompts and credits" scheme. Thank you!
| dereg wrote:
| This is great. I really love all my Matisse generations. On the
| other hand, I find DALL-E to be uniformly bad at recreating
| Edward Hopper. Almost none of the generations capture the
| spirit of his work. It's especially obvious when you run the
| same Hopper prompts on Stable Diffusion. I wonder why.
| IceWreck wrote:
| Yeah, no.
|
| Too late and stable diffusion works on my machine, I don't have
| to depend on anyone else to use it unlike this.
| loufe wrote:
| I got early access months ago and have been loving it. I had so
| much fun thinking of stupid prompts with colleagues and their
| results hang randomly around the office. I made an effort to
| start making birthday/other holiday cards for my family using
| Dall-E by telling stories in an art style, like old oil paintings
| or pencil drawings, which has been a huge success. I'm sold,
| though I do agree the pricing is a tad steep especially
| considering the presence of competitors.
| langitbiru wrote:
| I wonder how people behind Imagen feel about this. Stable
| Diffusion is open source. DALL-E is open for public (albeit, with
| some limitations).
|
| https://imagen.research.google/
| gorkish wrote:
| Cynical take: When has Google ever cared whether or not anyone
| else can play with their toys? Plus it's less likely to be
| cancelled if it's never turned into a product.
| barbariangrunge wrote:
| jobs_throwaway wrote:
| Even if Dall-E was free, the "safety" filters make it a non-
| starter for me. Its totally asinine to put any kind of content
| filters on a creativity tool.
| hbn wrote:
| They also mess with your prompts in an attempt to make them
| more diverse by inserting words like "black" into prompts. e.g.
| if you type "person in an office" it'll generate some images
| from the prompt "black person in an office"
|
| People were able to discover this by typing a prompt, something
| like "person holding a sign that says" and it would output
| pictures of people holding signs that just say the word
| "black", revealing that it was actually generating images from
| the prompt "person holding a sign that says black"
|
| https://twitter.com/rzhang88/status/1549472829304741888?t=R4...
| astrange wrote:
| I doubt it literally just appends words, it probably gets
| processed with a GPT prompt like "take this string and make
| it specifically mention X ethnicity".
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