[HN Gopher] Open Source PC That Fits in Your Pocket
___________________________________________________________________
Open Source PC That Fits in Your Pocket
Author : walterbell
Score : 291 points
Date : 2022-09-28 02:54 UTC (20 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (spectrum.ieee.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (spectrum.ieee.org)
| [deleted]
| protoman3000 wrote:
| When will I finally live a life where my work iPhone is plugged
| into a USB4 dock with mouse, display and keyboard and it makes my
| whole work desktop? M2 is already here, why can't we do this?
| sneak wrote:
| Heat dissipation mostly, phones aren't designed to shed wall
| powered thermals.
|
| You can do this today with an iPad Pro with keyboard cover.
|
| Also, pretty much nobody wants this. Most people who use work
| computers have them provided by the workplace. The workplace
| does not want the employee phones running the call center apps
| with customer data, etc.
|
| I for one do not want any work data physically present on any
| personally-owned device.
| JBiserkov wrote:
| > Heat dissipation mostly
|
| In the dock the phone is sandwiched between 2 cooling fans?
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| You could do this on a work provided phone, so the data could
| be managed the same way they do on a PC. Also, BYOD is still
| a thing, so there's that.
|
| Regarding heat dissipation, you have a point. But I think it
| depends on the use case, which is the reason why we also have
| laptops going from paper-thin under-powered models all the
| way to models requiring a forklift to move around.
|
| I think many "office jobs" could be done within the
| dissipation capabilities of a smartphone. Most of my days are
| spent answering emails and typing away in a terminal over
| SSH. My geriatric iPhone 7 could probably handle that without
| issue.
| sneak wrote:
| Secure BYOD is mostly unsolved wrt most common/popular
| Android phones. (Windows is also "a thing" but that didn't
| stop Maersk or whoever from getting ransomwared, did it?)
|
| Most serious orgs prohibit BYOD unless you are on Pixel or
| iPhone where MDM can actually work securely. There is no
| meaningful way to secure corporate data on an employee-
| owned Galaxy, for example.
|
| It is the rare corp that can do BYOD securely. The best
| practice is issuing corporate iPhones to all staff with
| universal MDM and keeping all corp data physically separate
| from personal devices.
|
| This also saves your employees' nudes in a
| subpoena/discovery situation during a civil action against
| the corp, which is all too common.
| dijit wrote:
| I hear you, but ubiquitous "phone booths" where you can have
| a quiet call or type up an email with a physical keyboard and
| large screen would be _amazing_.
|
| Don't let the decline of the telephone system fool you, when
| phones booths were widely used they were not disgusting
| toilets that you found in the late 90s-early-00s.
| sneak wrote:
| I don't want to type secrets on a keyboard I don't own, and
| I don't want to display secrets on a display I don't own.
| YMMV.
|
| I would assume any public keyboard is basically the
| password equivalent of an ATM skimmer.
| fsflover wrote:
| Here you go: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5.
| JBiserkov wrote:
| It has been possible, in different forms for 7 years now...
|
| 2015 Microsoft Continuum
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Display_Dock
|
| 2017 Samsung DeX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_DeX
| phh wrote:
| 2011 Motorola Atrix
| https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2011/03/motorola-atrix-
| the-u...
| IgorPartola wrote:
| To be fair, I owned the Atrix (or I should say four of
| them) and it's build quality was absolute garbage. The
| fingerprint sensor on the back, when touched, would cause
| the touchscreen on the front of the phone to glitch out. I
| had exchanged several of them and all had this issue. Oh
| and after a very short bit Motorola said they won't support
| any more upgrades to it with new Android versions and you
| couldn't install anything open source on it either as the
| bootloader was locked. This phone is why I've been using
| iPhones since.
| capableweb wrote:
| Since none of the other comments currently suggest it, the
| PinePhone can currently do this!
|
| I got the PinePhone to evaluate if it could be used as a daily
| phone. It cannot, it is way too early for that. But as a
| portable laptop? Works excellent! Not for programming big
| programs, but it's surprisingly effective as a terminal-on-the-
| go and even vim is not that difficult to use with it.
|
| Then when I come home, I can plug it into my
| display+mouse+keyboard and use a normal laptop to finish off
| whatever I wanted, push it to my git repository and then
| continue from my proper desktop machine.
|
| Another not as portable setup is the Steam Deck. Ships with a
| proper linux distribution and works with the same docking stuff
| you have for the PinePhone, so basically connect a hub that has
| HDMI+USB and you're up and running with a proper Linux
| distribution, and with better heat dissipation than the
| PinePhone. Not as portable obviously, but more powerful than
| the phone.
|
| Both setups are pretty open, as both of them can run basically
| the same operating system you use on a desktop computer (non-
| macos obviously, and no Windows on the PinePhone)
| selfhoster11 wrote:
| I use my Pinebook as an on-the-go dumb SSH/web terminal with
| some offline text processing functionality. It's got
| extremely weak hardware that makes it unusable for anything
| else, but then, that's exactly the tasks I need to do on the
| go so I'm happy enough with it.
| wyem wrote:
| Looking cute. Wondering how it will be useful though
| account-5 wrote:
| What's the likelihood this will be available outside the US?
| pugworthy wrote:
| What's the likelihood this will be available?
| [deleted]
| kratom_sandwich wrote:
| Let me add this to my list - Has any of these made it ever into
| the hands of customers? I believe the only device that actually
| came out is the Cosmo Communicator
| (https://www.www3.planetcom.co.uk/cosmo-communicator)
|
| There's also
|
| Lisperati1000 -
| https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberDeck/comments/lbu4di/my_shiny_...
|
| Devterm - https://www.clockworkpi.com/devterm
|
| Popcorn Pocket - https://pocket.popcorncomputer.com/
|
| Teenyserv - https://expanscape.com/teenyserv/the-teenyserv-
| prototypes/
| soapdog wrote:
| They larger laptop, MNT Reform, has been shipping for a while.
| Some friends of mine have it and I've met Lukas and played with
| a prototype at Fosdem long time ago. It is a real thing and it
| is a beauty. I'm saving for one.
| Kajayacht wrote:
| There's the OpenPandora (https://www.openpandora.org/) that did
| make it into hands of customers.
|
| If you look around Youtube and such, everyone seemed highly
| satisfied with it, but as a owner myself, it kinda sucked.
|
| By the time it came out, it was underpowered, it never was able
| to run any decent web browser at an acceptable level. It's
| focus was gaming and emulation, but even then it wasn't any
| better than a modded PSP (I would say in terms of software, it
| was worse). My Pandora had numerous manufacturing defects and
| the way to resolve it was "post in the user forums" where
| people would reply "Don't worry about it, it's a purely open-
| sourced handheld! You could just 3D print a new L button!"
|
| And what pissed me off to no end, people would overclock the
| CPU over 40% to get stuff to run at acceptable speeds, and then
| in the same breath say that "it's amazing, 10 hour battery!"
| Not if you overclock the thing.
|
| I still get excited when I see these new ultra-portable
| computers, but then I remember the Pandora and quickly tell
| myself not to waste my money.
| guenthert wrote:
| I can neither see clockwork's nor platecom's website -- they
| demand that I upgrade my Chrome browser (which I can't --
| Chromebook Pixel here). Why would they restrict their market?
| Apple.com happily shows me their content ...
| fsflover wrote:
| You forgot two devices which are shipping:
| https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-
| linux-p....
| kop316 wrote:
| While this device has yet to be released, their full size
| laptop, the MNT Reform, is available:
| https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt
|
| Personally, the fact that they have released a HW device
| already gives me a lot more confidence that this will succeed.
| heliostatic wrote:
| I've got a Devterm, so it has shipped to at least some folks.
| Took about a year?
| NoraCodes wrote:
| I have the DevTerm, it's pretty neat.
| minimalist wrote:
| It's too bad that it took a long time for linux support for the
| cosmo communicator to not be an absolute dog and good luck
| porting to anything other than their debian flavor. Also good
| luck finding replacement parts if anything breaks! That's the
| biggest problem IMO and one that I feel most happy with MNT,
| Pine64, and Purism (availability of replacement parts)
| rcarmo wrote:
| I've been hoping that the Lisperati becomes a real product
| soon. At least in kit form, since I'd rather have some of the
| kinks of sourcing and packing stuff into the case sorted for
| me.
| _trampeltier wrote:
| Really cool. I have a very light 13" notebook now, but I often
| think he is to large and also he does bend quite a bit all the
| time in a full bag.
|
| It's sad nobody does something like HP Elite X3 Lap Dock. I
| really would one, but when it came out Windows Mobile was already
| shut down, so ..
|
| The idea is great, all processing power and storage in the phone,
| the Lap Dock is just a keyboard and a display, wireless
| connected.
|
| https://www.windowscentral.com/hands-hp-elite-x3-lap-dock
| goosedragons wrote:
| There is the nexdock. Doesn't support Miracast but you can use
| it with Samsung Dex or some other thing.
| _trampeltier wrote:
| That's no contest. It has a wired connection, so no. It need
| to be small, simple, light and no cable.
| salmo wrote:
| I keep looking at similar devices. What I really want is a small
| lap top machine (but not necessarily a clamshell laptop) that I
| can keep by my couch.
|
| My goal is to be able to write software when an idea pops in my
| head or ssh into my home gear. I just want an xterm w/ vim and a
| browser to look up docs.
|
| I have a old 2012 HP Elite (?) laptop with a permanent powercord
| (battery died long ago) for this now, but it's massive and
| overkill. Out of my nerdiness, I'd like non-intel, but not
| required. Just something that can run Debian or Arch. I'd love
| FreeBSD, but never had a good portable experience with it.
|
| Has anyone used a device this way and enjoyed it? I guess I'm
| weird that I want small and ergonomic, but not really "portable"
| in the traditional sense.
| bittercynic wrote:
| An older xps-13 would be good. Available for under $200. Debian
| and Arch both install easily and work very well on it, with the
| exception that you might need to replace the wifi card.
|
| With a little tuning you can easily get over 12 hours battery
| life.
|
| The battery is easy to replace.
|
| Ex: https://www.ebay.com/itm/295220146891
| cylinder714 wrote:
| I think somewhere on the Pocket Reform site they describe it as
| a "sofa PC," more comfortable to use than a regular laptop,
| more capable than an Android phone running Termux.
|
| I had an Averatec N1200, the smallest, lightest netbook made,
| and it ran OpenBSD without difficulty, so I'd recommend that
| over FreeBSD. I eventually gave it away because the Atom
| processor and two gigabytes of RAM and slow SSD became
| intolerably slow.
|
| The keyboard was also very cramped, so while I still LOVE the
| idea of tiny PCs and netbooks, I'm not sure they can ever be
| comfortable enough to use.
| faeriechangling wrote:
| Here's a page detailing what the PC actually does. Notably it
| does have an ethernet jack which I couldn't tell from the
| pictures which is important given people who plug laptops into
| racks are going to be among the only people who will buy these.
|
| https://mntre.com/media/reform_md/2022-06-20-introducing-mnt...
|
| This computer has so many memes rolled into into one it's
| ridiculous, ortholinear, trackball, ultra-modular, FOSS, 7"
| clamshell.
| napkin wrote:
| I don't mean to completely discredit your sentiment.
|
| However, I'm making this comment on an MNT Reform. It has
| served wonderfully as my only laptop for the last year. I'd
| love to know about equally successful laptops that actually
| shipped, combining the same set of ideals that were important
| to me: Open hardware (to a further extent than something like
| Framework) & tough build quality.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| I hate those square-grid-style keyboards. Not sure what they're
| called but I've had one before in a foldable keyboard. It always
| felt wrong.
|
| I know the current layout was built for mechanical reasons so
| that typewriter rods wouldn't overlap. But 40 years of muscle
| memory is not something I want to give up :)
| techdragon wrote:
| The layout is called "Ortholinear", it can be a pain but
| personally I find handy for lots of things where you don't have
| that muscle memory like keypads and other accessory input
| devices. Its frustrating how hard it is to find inexpensive
| keyboards using the layout, its uncommon so its understandable
| they cost more. Lately its been a bit of a niche in the
| customised mechanical keyboard market.
| meltedcapacitor wrote:
| Normal staggered layout also matches that the operator's hands
| are at an angle to the keyboard in a normal position. It's an
| ergonomic version of the ortholinear layout lol.
|
| (Maybe that's less relevant on a tiny device?)
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| Oh ok I thought it was staggered because the typewriter rods
| had to go side by side.
|
| I don't think Ortholinear is bad as such.. It's just that I
| don't want to learn a new layout.
|
| But on a tiny device it is less relevant, true. Because
| muscle memory and touch typing doesn't really play a role
| there.
| betwixthewires wrote:
| MNT makes some pretty cool devices. I follow them pretty closely.
|
| This pocket reform is in the R&D stage, the photo in the article
| is a preliminary render.
|
| They're expensive though. The current reform laptop is fantastic
| but its a thousand dollars thereabouts. The pocket reform will
| probably be close to that in price, at the very least not
| comparable in price for the specs, but with open hardware. If
| that's worth it to you.
|
| The good thing I'd they're open hardware, you can download all
| schematics and fabricate them yourself if you want to.
|
| @mntmn@mastodon.social for those of you that want updates from
| the horse's mouth.
| tjoff wrote:
| That seems quite cheap to me. It could never be about price for
| specs.
| seba_dos1 wrote:
| > The good thing I'd they're open hardware, you can download
| all schematics and fabricate them yourself if you want to.
|
| That's true, but since you mention the price, it will cost you
| much more than simply buying one.
| submeta wrote:
| Does it run Emacs?
| kgarten wrote:
| I found emacs to be an amazing operating system. It just lacks
| a good editor.
| Narishma wrote:
| I haven't found that to be the case.
|
| https://github.com/emacs-evil/evil
| Animats wrote:
| A current generation cheap subnotebook would be useful, for when
| you want a complete system, not a Raspberry Pi with wires all
| over the place.
|
| If it actually existed and didn't cost too much, it would be
| interesting.
|
| If it's 3 years out and costs $2500, forget it.
| smallerfish wrote:
| If it were to ship, the mobile data option is great - it could
| feasibly replace a phone. I've been running my phone with a data
| plan only, taking calls over voip, for the past 18 months, which
| has been working fine.
| goombacloud wrote:
| Love this modularity of swapping the compute modules!
| jakuboboza wrote:
| Steam Deck is perfectly fine mini PC that is reasonably portable
| it is also a decent console. If You will but 20-30 USD dock that
| has more than 1 output you can plug power, monitor and
| mouse/keyboard combo.
|
| You can go with portable mouse/keyboard and dock/usb-c-hdmi cable
| to any place and plug it into a hotel TV and be setup on your
| portable linux machine that can also...game :)
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| Could it handle one of those one-wire-to-rule-them-all USB-C
| docks? I was contemplating this for my gaming needs so I could
| retire my big-ass desktop. But since I only play at home, and
| already have the desktop, I figured I wouldn't bother.
|
| But I hadn't thought of this use case, so if it could handle
| it, it would be a game-changer.
| capableweb wrote:
| It does. I got the USB-C dock/hub for PinePhone when I bought
| the phone, and it works perfectly well for Steam Deck as
| well. It cost something like $30 and I'm sure it works with
| other docks/hubs as well, in addition to the official one
| that will come soon according to Valve.
| jakuboboza wrote:
| i have "reinston" dock that is more less noname usb-c to 2 x
| USB, 2 x USB-c and sd/tf card reader + ofc HDMI plug. So I'm
| kinda just plugging everything in and surprise it works.
|
| My dock is more less a "no name" picked in store to try it
| out.
|
| Also it has option to stream games rendered from your PC so
| you can play titles like CP2077 on steam deck rendered from
| your desktop if you feels so.
| tl wrote:
| Can it? Yes. Is it perfect? No. Is it (on average) good?
| YMMV.
|
| Things to be weary of:
|
| 1. Valve took the same tradeoff Nintendo took with a Switch.
| As a result, driving higher res displays (4k) works until it
| fails, badly. The increased processor / memory strain finds
| lots crashing edge cases.
|
| 2. Dock / un-dock has the standard set of headaches, the most
| annoying which is random pieces of software fixating on
| hardware that no longer exists when you un-dock (resolution
| changes, keyboard vs. on-screen, fallback to trackpads from
| missing mouse, ghost ethernet connections, sound headaches).
| This is endemic on the games side; random game + its proton
| shim + SteamOS doesn't like inputs changing. You will
| occasionally need a full reboot to fix issues.
|
| 3. It's a Linux. Torvalds is right then Valve is the best
| hope of "Linux on the Desktop" but the current frankensystem
| isn't there yet, and using any ports (or bluetooth) will
| expose you to a lack of friendliness not found on consoles or
| even (eww) Windows.
| ngcc_hk wrote:
| Just order a pi4 one small but still large linux handheld.
| Struggle do not want to play Gpd.
|
| This might fit the bill. See how it goes.
| dmix wrote:
| Their Amiga graphics card got good reviews:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Cu-LuSB8Ns
| ivanjermakov wrote:
| What are the dimensions? Judging by the image, it is not much
| shorter than 13" laptop and a lot thicker. Those screen bezels
| make screen smartphone-sized.
|
| What is the purpose of using it? Most X apps won't scale well to
| that DPI. Can't think of a use-case for it.
| ezconnect wrote:
| I tried this form factor around 2011 during the netbook craze.
| It's pretty unusable. It was only convenient for Skype call when
| skype was still the go to video call application. Writing
| programs on it is unbearable. I am not sure about writers, maybe
| it's usable for them.
| armitron wrote:
| I'll choose my MacBook Air over this every single time. I don't
| see anything here that doesn't fall under "gimmick".
| uwagar wrote:
| i got ben nanonote (fully open source hardware) way back in 2010
| or something.
| est wrote:
| There are many 7'' or 8'' x86 pocket computers without brands
| sold in China for about $200, with qwerty keyboards touch screen
| and everything.
| sien wrote:
| They can be bought on Amazon too.
|
| Tibuta Masterpad W100 8.9 inch
|
| Unboxing and review :
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6RxARPBNZk
|
| on Amazon for $US 150
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Tibuta-Masterpad-Computer-1536%C3%972...
| uwagar wrote:
| oh the semicolon not on the same like as jkl is a no-no for
| me as a programmer.
| itintheory wrote:
| How's the linux support? So many of these bargain laptops are
| listed as Windows devices. I still remember the days of the
| 'winmodems' so trusting that these devices can run linux well
| is a tough sell.
| itintheory wrote:
| I've definitely browsed AliExpress in this category many times,
| but I expect the quality of these devices leaves something to
| be desired. And I say this as someone who pre-orderd the
| Popcorn PocketPC, and considering buying a Pinephone Pro with
| keyboard case.
| akerr wrote:
| Looks a lot like the original EeePC. I used one for a couple of
| years but there was no doubt it was cramped. I still have it and
| it works. My N900 was fun but didn't last quite as long before a
| bit of flex killed the wireless radios. I replaced it with an
| iPhone 4S and haven't looked back: I still use open source
| software every day but running on, or accessed by, (excellent)
| Apple hardware (the M1 MacBook Air and iPhone 13 mini are the
| best computers I've ever had).
| gitowiec wrote:
| I also have Eee netbook. It's so old that it's keyboard stopped
| working. I bought another keyboard from the same model but
| changing it didn't help. What do you mean with "flex killed"?
| Could the same happen to keyboard controller on my piece? Is it
| possible to fix it with simple soldering new solder?
|
| Also I would like to buy this OP mini laptop for my six year
| daughter... I wonder when it will be ready for production...
| She might be 8 then. Maybe better Raspberry Pi 400 (but it
| needs external screen and that is a downturn)? What do you
| think?
| lambdafourtwo wrote:
| This is cool but phones have fit in my pocket for years. It's all
| about the form factor if you want a PC.
|
| I'm waiting for the PC that's the size of a thumb drive that you
| just put into any hdmi port.
|
| All peripherals connect over bluetooth, and power will have to
| come from the hdmi port.
| michaelmrose wrote:
| This exists but is a lot of money for a bad computer. By
| comparison an intel NUC can actually be a decent computer at
| 4.6 x 4.41 x 2.01 inches. Why would you actually want this?
| lambdafourtwo wrote:
| Did not know this exists. Well I want it to fit in my pocket.
| A NUC can't.
| green_on_black wrote:
| ... an intel compute stick?
| lambdafourtwo wrote:
| What? This exists? Does it get all power from hdmi?
| happymellon wrote:
| No, they normally require a usb power hooked up.
| 4ggr0 wrote:
| A small Powerbank could help in that case, if no power
| socket is available. But generally power sockets aren't
| far away from HDMI ports, at least in my experience.
| charcircuit wrote:
| >I'm waiting for the PC that's the size of a thumb drive that
| you just put into any hdmi port.
|
| Google intel compute stick for one that already exists.
| kragen wrote:
| In my comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33004670
| I called out a lot of advantages a device like this could have
| over a phone.
| recursivedoubts wrote:
| one day, I will have my OQO
| tomcam wrote:
| A girl can dream, can't she. Unfortunately, username checks
| out.
| fallous wrote:
| It looks like they've reinvented the Gateway 2000 Handbook.
| jdhdosvxjd wrote:
| the problem, as with everything, is marketing.
|
| everyone here missed the blackberry priv and key2 (not key2-le
| subversion).
|
| they were android flagships with same cpu/memory as the samsung
| du jour. but with a keyboard that doubled as a touchpad. and no
| bloatware, pure android.
|
| the key2 is only now being left out of security upgrades.
|
| absolutely nobody here heard of them. coded on them regularly
| (keyboard only missed a esc and tab, but easily to work around as
| it had a ctrl key)
|
| I'm sadly typing this on a samsung s-large-number. i hate every
| second of it and only scroll content. marketing is the
| intelectual class war we don't recognize.
| dhjdsjdshfh wrote:
| Typing on a key2. holding until the last day.
|
| The only bad thing is that it was such a comercial failure
| there's zero postmarketOS support.
|
| Nokias were locked down more for necessity of the low hardware.
| Android and ios are locked down for no reason other than greed.
|
| there's zero defensible reason for the smartphone of today to
| not be an open PC that you can install your opensource OS. and
| if you utter something like security i would like to ask that
| you don't interact with me. thank you.
| rootw0rm wrote:
| Fond memories of my Nokia N900, still have it somewhere
| MarcScott wrote:
| I used to have a VAIO P series laptop -
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Vaio_P_series It could just
| about fit in the back pocket of my jeans and had a sim card slot
| for mobile connectivity, if I remember correctly. It was a really
| nice little laptop. Not going to be rendering any 3d models on
| it, but great for basic internet and office work.
| c54 wrote:
| I love seeing these projects but can't imagine what in the world
| I'd do with one of these devices. Small computers that don't
| benefit from the mobile UX tradeoffs and don't quite have
| keyboards or screens or a hinge to support putting it down and
| typing on it.
|
| They're cute though. If you had one, what would you be doing with
| it?
| RL_Quine wrote:
| Until the hardware totally gave out, I used a Sony Vaio P which
| is of similar size, but had a keyboard usable by a human being.
| I loved the thing as just a terminal on the go, if I had ever
| repaired the 3G modem it would have been literally perfect.
| Sadly the hardware is miserably old now and nobody has many
| anything like a replacement with a keyboard that doesn't have
| its own stress injuries named after it.
| cylinder714 wrote:
| I saw those at the Sony store at the Metreon in San
| Francisco. I'm glad it worked well, I couldn't justify the
| purchase but loved the concept.
| defrost wrote:
| I've seen good hardware level network engineers using small
| form factor portables as isolated "known setup" units for
| running packet filters, malware scans, diagnostic scripts etc
| against racked units in situ.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Yeah, there was a device mentioned on HN recently, the GPD
| MicroPC, which is a palmtop with loads of ports (serial,
| RJ45, USB A and C, HDMI); it looks neat. I have no use for it
| but it's a neat gimmick: https://gpd.hk/gpdmicropc
| procarch2019 wrote:
| I was troubleshooting a very irregular network interruption
| between two industrial controllers (AB PLC and a DCS). For
| those who do not work in industrial automation communication
| between assets is essential and some disruptions can be quite
| costly depending on the industry/product being made. That can
| be true of even relatively minimal disruptions.
|
| I loaded up an RPi with arch, popped a thumb drive on there
| and created some startup scripts. Once the RPi booted up it
| just performed a rolling packet monitor. Once I was alerted
| about a disruption I went and grabbed the thumb drive. I
| found a Modbus TCP driver bug.
|
| What's even better is I ended up 'packaging' it in an
| enclosure and was able to utilize it in a lot of scenarios.
| I've been using it over the past 2 years.
|
| Edit: in the industrial world equipment like this is not in
| racks/server rooms. They are usually located in panels that
| have no external networking (security). When I 'grabbed' that
| means traveling to the site and literally taking the drive.
| defrost wrote:
| > Edit: in the industrial world equipment like this is not
| in racks/server rooms.
|
| A rack by any other name . . . :-)
|
| TBH I was thinking of not just the trad. IT server room
| racks but also of cramped radio comms "cupboards" by towers
| and of production circuit | industrial control access
| panels / locations in both indoor "warehouse" production
| and outdoor mineral processing circuits ..
|
| Always handy to have a small known general purpose computer
| with ports, scripts, utilities, etc when you're tracking
| down the weird bug of the day.
| procarch2019 wrote:
| I've been meaning to get a flipper zero, but I would love
| to see that device with a standard gig Ethernet port. The
| flexibility would be amazing. PoE for bonus points.
|
| However, for ultimate utility I think the next iteration
| of my packet scraper will be a dual NIC'd SBC so I don't
| have to worry about hubs or 'managed' switches with port
| mirroring.
| liminalsunset wrote:
| NanoPi R4S is nice and might be of interest to you. The
| RK3399/OP1 chipset seems well supported by mainline. Only
| potential drawback is the second GbE LAN is connected
| using USB3.0 internally on the mainboard. IIRC the XHCI
| protocol fixes the EHCI (USB2.0) CPU usage polling
| problem, and the interface can indeed reach close to line
| speed.
| guessbest wrote:
| What would you consider to be a MVPC (Minimum Viable Pocket
| Computer)?
| drran wrote:
| A detachable DOCK with keyboard, additional battery, 3 or 4
| USB ports, Ethernet, HDMI, SD socket(s), headphones socket,
| etc., which can be attached to any smartphone via something
| like VESA mount for displays and TV-s. To use the keyboard, I
| prefer just slide it, to use like a notebook, out OR rotate
| it and the phone to form a cross, to use it like a portable
| gaming console.
|
| This way, I can select a phone with good specs, then install
| LineAge with Linux terminal, and use the phone as a PC for
| development, note-taking, texting, etc.
| em-bee wrote:
| a keyboard large enough to type on it with two hands (even if
| not using all 10 fingers) and a screen no larger than the
| keyboard. (no touchpad. it takes up way to much space for
| little gain), 4-8GB of ram and not to much diskpace. (lot's
| of diskspace takes more effort to back up)
| kragen wrote:
| If the keyboard on this is 7 "inches" wide, that's 14.8 mm
| per key. I think 14 mm wide would be enough, so this is
| probably wide enough to type on with two hands. But by the
| same token, it's probably too big to fit comfortably in
| most pockets.
| em-bee wrote:
| the GPD pocket is 6.5 inch wide, with 16mm per key. and
| it does fit into some of my pants pockets. but that's
| actually not a criteria for me. i rather carry it in a
| shoulder bag or backpack anyways.
| 2III7 wrote:
| A 6.5+" android smartphone with an external keyboard. My Note
| 10 Plus does everything I need on the go.
| drran wrote:
| FxTec Pro1 ?
| rchaud wrote:
| That's a PDA, not a computer. A computer should have no
| restrictions on developing and deploying code locally, just
| as you can do on your laptop.
| kragen wrote:
| The picture makes it look like it has a keyboard, a screen, and
| a hinge to support putting it down and typing on it.
|
| My imagined use of such a device is something like this.
|
| I board the bus and there's, fortunately, a seat. I sit down,
| but a full-sized laptop wouldn't fit between my lap and the
| seat in front of me. I pull out the computer and finish up
| typing my notes about electrostatically-driven hydrogen-boron
| fusion, perhaps switching back and forth between Emacs and
| Jupyter as I do some calculations that go slightly beyond the
| back of the envelope.
|
| Then I switch to an OpenStreetMap viewer to confirm where to
| transfer to a different bus (though the Pocket Reform evidently
| doesn't have built-in GPS, I can read a map), and check my
| address book to make sure I know the address where I'm going.
| Because the disk is encrypted with a strong passphrase, I know
| that my address book won't fall into the wrong hands even if
| the computer gets stolen, unless the thieves have video of me
| entering the passphrase.
|
| I'm arriving early, so when I get off the bus at the transfer
| point, I stop at a cafe, sit down at a table inside (out of
| reach of motorcycle thieves), buy a cappuccino, and bang out a
| couple of pages of a story I've been thinking about. Probably a
| first draft I'll totally rewrite, but I have to get through the
| first draft before I can write something worth reading. For
| background information for the story, I refer to the copy of
| Wikipedia in the computer's local copy, using Kiwix.
|
| Then a cool idea about cellular automata occurs to me, so I try
| it out in JS using Emacs and Firefox, then commit it to Git. I
| can't remember how to draw circles on a <canvas> so I consult a
| locally stored snapshot of MDN using Zeal. (If that had failed,
| I'd've used a locally stored snapshot of Stack Overflow using
| Kiwix.)
|
| I pay for my coffee, stick the computer back in my pocket, and
| continue on to my landlord's house, where I pay him the rent.
|
| Then I take another bus to the university; on the bus I use the
| computer to review the textbook chapter the professor will be
| teaching today. The desks in the classroom are too small for a
| full-sized laptop, but the computer fits on one of them neatly.
| I use it to compute eigenvalues for some of the matrices the
| professor writes on the board in order to test a hunch I have
| about them.
|
| After class, I'm chatting with another student, and they
| mention they're interested in learning assembly language. I
| pull out the computer and open up a web server I wrote in
| assembly a few years ago; it's small enough that I can scroll
| through the code in Emacs while holding it in one hand, so we
| don't need to sit down.
|
| On the bus home I use it as a music player, playing through my
| headphones.
|
| At home I charge it and connect to the Wi-Fi in my house and do
| an incremental backup of the machine to my home server, which
| is a Raspberry Pi Zero with a USB disk plugged into it. That
| way, if the Pocket Reform does get stolen, I can restore the
| full system state onto a new one.
|
| The next morning I see that my web server has a problem. I
| suspect that disabling Markdown on comments will solve the
| problem, but I want to make sure they don't look too broken
| before I push the config live. So I test the config change in a
| "staging server" that's really just a QEMU virtual machine
| running on the Pocket Reform. It turns out that it doesn't fix
| the problem. Once I figure out what does, and test it in QEMU,
| I push the config change live. (I'm testing in QEMU instead of
| Docker because the server is an amd64 box.)
|
| Now I want to go visit a sort of Fab Lab that a friend of mine
| is setting up in the suburbs. So I consult the bus routes on
| the computer, stick it in my pocket, and go outside to wait for
| the bus. Once I'm on the bus, I open up OpenSCAD to put the
| finishing touches on a mechanical-computing lookup table design
| I'll try to 3-D print at my destination. It looks wrong, so I
| run git diff, which shows me that I have a forgotten
| uncommitted change from six months ago that is fucking it up.
| git checkout multlut.scad solves the problem, and by the time I
| get off the bus I have an STL file on my MicroSD card ready for
| him to slice.
|
| While I'm there, I show him a Xyce simulation of a power supply
| circuit I've been working on, and he shows me that my circuit
| is too sensitive to noise in a way I hadn't thought to
| simulate.
|
| At night I have a date. We end up talking about oral sex
| technique, and I mention an instructional video I'd seen that
| showed me some interesting techniques; later at home I show the
| relevant part of the video.
|
| Throughout all this I never transmitted an IMEI to a cellphone
| network, and I only ever transmitted a randomized Wi-Fi MAC
| address, and that only when I was at home. I never sent my data
| to a data center in the United States, China, or South Korea. I
| never had to overcome artificial obstacles to installing my own
| software -- or hardware. I was never at risk of not being able
| to install OpenSCAD because it had been removed from the app
| store because it hadn't been updated in three years. I never
| had to deal with any malware, spyware, adware, or antifeatures.
| None of my files were ever matched against a secret government
| blacklist of forbidden files. The page numbers I looked at in
| my textbook were never transmitted to Seattle. I never had to
| do a CAPTCHA to keep my computations from being aborted. No
| advertisements interrupted the oral sex video, and because it
| is stored locally, there's no risk that it will have been
| deleted from the server because of a DMCA notification.
|
| Still, I think it would be better with a camera (with an
| obvious hardware power switch which activates a camera app when
| it's turned on) and GPS.
| em-bee wrote:
| the issue with using a laptop in public transportation is
| that sometimes i notice to late when i need to get off. then
| i have to rush, and in that situation a small device is
| easier to handle. the OLPC XO was really the best in that
| case because of its handle. i could just grab it and run.
| Eleison23 wrote:
| A killer feature for me would be a control that helps my
| device switch contexts.
|
| I fiddle with about 5+ settings whenever I prepare to leave
| home, board the bus, or disembark at my destination. That
| includes toggling WiFi or finding an SSID nearby, toggling
| mobile data, Bluetooth, battery saver/brightness,
| DND/ringer, etc.
|
| Why does a general-purpose smartphone force me to manually
| press all these buttons in a checklist sequence that's
| easily forgotten? Why can't I just configure one green
| button that says "Leaving home" and it executes all those
| settings on my behalf? Another red button that says "Arrive
| at church" and it goes silent/off-net/DND?
|
| And why, when I turn the phone's power off and back on, it
| restarts with all the same settings even if I've switched
| contexts? If I shut down a noisy connected phone, I can't
| turn it on at church because it'll gratuitously probe the
| network, use mobile data, chirp with texts and calendar
| reminders.
|
| So even better than those aforementioned buttons would be
| geofencing, that allows me to configure where DND/ringer is
| on, where BT, WiFi and mobile data are allowed, etc.
|
| If a device is going to feature dozens or hundreds of
| fiddly gadget preferences, please allow users to create
| "big knobs" or scriptable actions to simplify them!
| kragen wrote:
| I wonder if you can write an app to do this for Android,
| or if there are API limitations. Obviously hardware
| buttons for different contexts would be better than
| something in the pulldown buttonbar, or even better, a
| hardware knob, with detents.
|
| Geofencing and time-of-day auto-profile-switching have
| the potential problem that they fight with your manual
| configuration. You turn on notifications to make sure you
| don't miss news from the hospital about your wife, and
| then an hour later the geofence turns them back off. That
| sort of thing has a kind of irreducible complexity and
| potential for user error.
| kragen wrote:
| Yeah, that's true. Also, pulling out a laptop attracts
| attention. I wonder if you could chain it to your belt like
| some people do with their wallets; then you couldn't forget
| it.
| em-bee wrote:
| when traveling i want something small and portable that does
| not get in the way, especially when backpacking. sure, you
| could argue that i should leave electronic devices at home and
| unhook from this dependency to be connected, but that would
| remove the ability to back up my photos, or write a diary too.
| there is a case for the responsible use of electronic devices
| outdoors. and for that i like that device to be as small as is
| practically useful. a phone is to small because a touchscreen
| is just not good for typing. it would take me longer, so i
| would actually spend more time on the device than otherwise.
|
| my first was the transmeta based sony picturebook. since then i
| have had various other devices of similar size. the largest was
| probably the OLPC XO. the small but sturdy form means that they
| pack easily. i just toss it in the bag, not worrying much. with
| any larger laptop the problem is either weight, or it's so thin
| that i fear it could break if i don't protect it from things
| that might push against it.
|
| the small form factor helps to reduce the amount of time i like
| to spend in front of it. so i really just use it for things i
| need to do when not at home or in the office.
|
| the downside is that these devices are actually rather
| expensive, but for me they were what enabled me to be a digital
| nomad for a several years.
| selfhoster11 wrote:
| Part of why I bought a Pinebook was to be able to back up
| photos and browse hotel reservations, flights, etc on the go
| without having to spring for an extremely expensive Macbook
| Air. I hate doing this on a smartphone, it's just too small
| and error-prone to be effective.
|
| In the end, I found it's slightly too bulky with a 10kg
| luggage allowance. But if it weren't for that, I think it
| would be a frequent travel companion for trips abroad.
| NonNefarious wrote:
| That's what I'd imagine too, but thinking it through... the
| keyboard on this thing is super lame. The lack of a Delete
| key alone would piss me off if trying to do any real writing.
|
| I don't see a "travel" use case that couldn't be served by a
| MacBook Air (with the Karabiner utility to fix ITS
| insufferable lack of a Delete key).
|
| To me this thing is for very limited technical scenarios, for
| example as a video signal generator or some kind of analysis
| or testing device to be used in the field. It might be pretty
| cool for something like that. Or for mobile hacking.
| vidarh wrote:
| The Macbook Air doesn't fit in my jacket pocket. This thing
| would, even that thick.
| NonNefarious wrote:
| Usually when backpacking there's a backpack.
| vidarh wrote:
| That's great if you backpack. I don't backpack. Devices
| like this appeals for the many situations where I'll have
| a jacket but don't want to take a backpack.
| Grumbledour wrote:
| I am pretty sure just as the "big" reform, the pocket will
| let you reprogram the keyboard with QMK, so you can have
| every key you want.
|
| I am a bit surprised to see no Raise/Lower Keys on the
| render, but maybe it's not the final layout?
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| The Sony Z4 tablet with keyboard dock is great. I've fixed
| mine several times to keep it going. The dock is a hard
| plastic laptop-style affair that is perfect to use on a lap.
| The tablet itself is much thinner than current ipads and
| waterproof.
|
| It's sad that this was the last tablet Sony ever made.
| thorncorona wrote:
| You could buy an SD card adapter + bluetooth keyboard.
| Smaller and lighter than bringing 2 devices.
| pjmlp wrote:
| I remember looking forward to getting a Pandora[0], eventually
| I gave up on what are gimmick devices, most of them only sell a
| couple of hundreds, are yet another form factor to run MAME,
| and are gone afterwards just like several 8 and 16 bit devices
| that hardly anyone remembers.
|
| [0] - https://openpandora.org/
| selfhoster11 wrote:
| Pandora's replacement, Pyra, is Pretty Bloody Expensive (TM),
| starting at EUR 550 and going up to EUR 750.
|
| I think it's a cool device, but it's definitely not worth
| that much.
| Grumbledour wrote:
| Especially now. When the original pandora came out, the
| market was different and even after the years it was
| delayed it was still a great machine for emulation. But
| now, cheap and semi-open emulation devices exist in the
| dozens and paying up to 10 times as much just to get linux
| and a keyboard is not that appealing to many people.
|
| If they could do it for maybe <300, I think there would
| certainly be people considering it, but at that price (and
| of course the fact that it seems to never get finished) I
| am not sure they can rally a great community again like
| they could with the original device.
|
| A community wanting such a device would maybe be better of
| producing a keyboard/gamepad accessory for existing
| hardware and hacking free software for same. The rockchip
| based platforms seem like a good target for example.
| RockRobotRock wrote:
| I agonized over getting one of these when I was a kid. I was
| completely in love with the idea of having a real PC in my
| pocket.
|
| Now as an adult it just seems silly. of course i never would
| have expected to be able to do so much with just a phone or
| tablet
| RalfWausE wrote:
| I have an ancient Atari Portfolio in daily use and because its
| the same form factor perhaps i can contribute my 2 eurocents:
|
| As others already put it, the form factor is great for working
| on public transportation. No need to somehow wriggle out your
| laptop but simply slide this mini-laptop from your bag and
| start working.
|
| A small keyboard is something one needs to get accustomed to,
| but after years now i can sincerely say that i type nearly as
| fast on the Portfolio as on a regular sized keyboard... and i
| would assume, that this new computer would have a much better
| keyboard than the old Portfolio.
|
| Ok, now on the topic "what to do with this device": I mainly
| use the Portfolio for notes during meetings, hacking together a
| few figures in the spreadsheet app (something that is just
| plain uggly on an smartphone) and as a knowledge database for
| my daily work (e.g. MAC-adresses and so on).
|
| One thing i have not found in any modern computer is the
| battery-liftime of the Folio: Nearly a month on three AAAs!
| SamBam wrote:
| I love that the comparisons with laptops is that you have to
| "somehow wriggle" your laptop out of a bag, but a Portfolio
| can "slide" out of your bag.
|
| My laptop slides just fine out of my bag.
| encryptluks2 wrote:
| God what I would do for a modern, Pixel-based Sidekick phone with
| the flip around Sidekick 3 design.
| starside wrote:
| I wish they made a 17inch open source laptop, even if it was
| slow. I don't think I could use that thing.
| jogu wrote:
| Not 17 inches but their first project was a laptop:
|
| https://mntre.com/media/reform_md/2020-05-08-the-much-more-p...
| smasher164 wrote:
| This is cool, but a 5 hour battery life is kind of a dealbreaker
| for a device I would be very mobile with.
|
| The 11 inch macbook air used to get over 11 hours, and netbooks
| used to get like at least 4 hours.
| kragen wrote:
| Can you put a bigger battery into it?
| criddell wrote:
| The battery is big enough. Power consumption is what needs to
| be addressed.
| kragen wrote:
| I have some 400x240 memory-in-pixel LCDs here that are
| claimed to do 20 fps at 0.1 mW and some Ambiq Apollo3
| subthreshold microcontrollers that are claimed to do 7 ARM
| MIPS ([?]9 Dhrystone MIPS) at 0.2 mW, with the ability to
| run up to 96 MHz at proportionally higher power
| consumption. Two such displays would have more pixels than
| the original Macintosh, and one such microcontroller would
| have three times its RAM and ten times its CPU power, using
| 0.4 mW in total. Such a mobile workstation would take 81/2
| years to chew through 8000 mAh at 3.7 volts, though
| actually the battery's self-discharge would run it down
| sooner.
|
| I'm working on a machine built around that hardware, called
| the Zorzpad, in a form factor similar to the Pocket Reform.
| My plan for the Zorzpad, though, is to have no battery at
| all, just solar panels. I think I can get a milliwatt from
| amorphous solar panels even under indoor lighting, and not
| having a battery should make the machine last a lot longer:
| no charging port to break, no battery wear, and no risk of
| battery fires or leakage.
|
| But the laptop I'm typing this on is about 40'000 Dhrystone
| MIPS, so it's about 4000 times faster than the 0.4-mW
| configuration and 350 times faster than the maximum-speed
| configuration. I suspect the Pocket Reform is closer to my
| laptop in speed. The laptop has 24-bit color and 2
| megapixels; the Zorzpad will have 0.1 megapixels. I think
| the Pocket Reform has 16-bit color and 1 megapixel.
|
| You will never run Firefox on the Zorzpad, and probably
| almost no software I run on my laptop will run on the
| Zorzpad. Most of it will run on the Pocket Reform, but some
| of it might be slow.
| vidarh wrote:
| Even if you can't, it has 8000mAh total battery capacity
| there are plenty of 30,000mAh+ battery packs on Amazon. If
| you can really get 5 hours out of 8000mAh, relying on a
| battery pack for the instances where you expect there's a
| chance of spending 5 hours using it somewhere without a
| charger seems reasonable...
| kragen wrote:
| Most of those "30,000 mAh" battery packs on Amazon are
| actually 8000 mAh, as you can compute by dividing their
| volume by a trustworthy source of information about
| lithium-ion battery energy density like https://lygte-
| info.dk/review/batteries2012/Sanyo%20NCR20700B.... That
| aside, in a lot of the situations where I'd like to use a
| portable computer, it would be very inconvenient, and
| sometimes dangerous, to have it cabled to an external
| battery pack.
| mintplant wrote:
| Can you type with your thumbs while holding the device, or is
| this the kind of mini-laptop that you have to set down on a table
| or your lap to type on?
| happymellon wrote:
| The screen is 7 inch, and it has a chunky bezel.
|
| I would imagine that you could hold this in your hands and
| type, but those squared edges and thick body might be
| uncomfortable.
| tromp wrote:
| What stops them from reducing the huge bezels and fitting an 8"
| or even 9" display in there? Is it just that 7" displays are far
| more common and thus cheaper?
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| I think it's because this form factor can be 3D printed;
| smaller bezels and you need more specialist design and
| materials that can't easily be reproduced and need to be built
| in minimum size batches in factories.
| stonogo wrote:
| MNT's production runs are not big enough to drive novel display
| formats. They use off-the-shelf displays. Their other laptop,
| the Reform, has a list of about four models of LCD that will
| work.
| [deleted]
| Apocryphon wrote:
| Just get a Gemini PDA or another retro-smartphone device from
| Planet Computers.
| thanatos519 wrote:
| The Gemini is amazing except for the bit where I am stuck at
| Debian Stretch using libhybris for the hardware because of all
| the Android proprietary binary blobs.
|
| It's super awesome, and OpenGL ES works great, but it's not
| following me into the future.
|
| My Sony VGN-P720D was similar: amazing hardware with great
| Linux support out of the box, and ... the same Linux support 5
| years later, because the blobs I got the month after I bought
| it were the last blobs they ever released.
| pabs3 wrote:
| Which blobs does it need? The Panfrost work means that ARM
| Mali GPUs should be supported in mainline Linux/mesa these
| days. Looks like mainline Linux has Mediatek MT6797 support
| (but not Gemini support) and mainline mesa Panfrost supports
| Mali-T880. So potentially doable.
| hwbehrens wrote:
| Are there any devices that fit the bill of an "anti-laptop"? I
| despise working on tiny (<27") screens, but I often need to work
| both from home and from the office. Currently I have a docking
| station in each location and move a laptop between them. However,
| I never ever open the laptop or use it on battery power.
|
| It seems silly that most of the volume and weight of the device I
| carry around daily are totally unused, and that most of the
| tradeoffs it makes are irrelevant to me, but most small desktop
| machines are either too large or too slow (to meet a price point,
| presumably?). None that I know of is designed to operate from a
| single Thunderbolt cable like a docked laptop can.
|
| Does such a product exist? I understand that this is a small
| fraction of a fraction of a use case, and until recently
| connectivity options weren't really there to support such a
| device, but I think there is some promise in this idea.
|
| The Framework desktop case seems to come the closest so far, but
| it still doesn't (I think?) address the single-cable connectivity
| question. There's not too much info about it on the website so I
| couldn't answer all my questions about it.
| teawrecks wrote:
| There are docks that let you use your phone as the computing
| device. Depending on how much power you need, that would
| probably be good enough for most tasks.
|
| Ex. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1404180696/nudock-a-
| doc...
| goosedragons wrote:
| There are some mini PCs that can operate off a single USB C
| cable these days. For example this Minisforum UM580 can:
|
| https://store.minisforum.com/products/um560?variant=42804330...
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kNpO4ib_P0
| RickHull wrote:
| My million dollar idea is that I take my keyboard with me. My
| preferred layout, keycaps, switches, etc. Inside is something
| like a Ryzen APU, upgradeable / swappable, with an internal
| battery. It has display outputs and can easily be paired to a
| tablet or phone for display, perhaps wirelessly, possibly
| harnessing the display device's processing power as well.
| cryptolake wrote:
| https://youtu.be/ewVp96JN0nQ someone did this with the
| framework motherboard check it out
| UI_at_80x24 wrote:
| I just had a flashback to a C64. =) Just carrying around a
| keyboard.
| dylan604 wrote:
| imagine a C64 designed by Ive with a butterfly keyboard!
| random314 wrote:
| Raspberry pi 400 is close except for the Ryzen.
| ozten wrote:
| "ChromeBook for your face" VR headsets are coming.
| TheRealPomax wrote:
| Sounds like you're looking for a modern iPad, which is
| basically just a laptop without the laptop parts.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Except it still has the burden of having a screen
| ayewo wrote:
| Since you never open the laptop to use the LCD, would an Apple
| Mac Mini work for your use case?
| btw0 wrote:
| Mini PC with a portable display is an idea replacement for
| laptop.
| tristor wrote:
| > None that I know of is designed to operate from a single
| Thunderbolt cable like a docked laptop can.
|
| The Mac Mini is basically exactly this, with one exception,
| which is power. I really wish this existed as well. An M2 Mac
| Mini that supported being powered over TB with PD, would be
| perfect for me, because I have multiple work locations that
| each have monitors that provide 90W of PD power over TB, and I
| could simply drop it in my bag.
| danbee wrote:
| The Udoo Bolt will happily run entirely off a single USB-C
| cable. 4K video output, power, and USB.
| johnwalkr wrote:
| People that want this are buying M1 macbooks with broken
| screens on ebay and simply removing the screen. I'm not sure
| you could really do this without the battery to make a much
| smaller size as modern laptops rely on the battery for peak
| power delivery instead of using a larger power supply.
| desindol wrote:
| The only real prospect would be intel enthusiast or extreme
| nucs.
|
| [0]
| https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196170/...
| m463 wrote:
| maybe not your exact use case, but the librem 5 can do all this
| through usb-c.
|
| https://puri.sm/faq/can-i-connect-the-librem-5-phone-to-a-mo...
|
| I'll bet there are non-arm systems that can do the same thing.
| cylinder714 wrote:
| Zotac just introduced their new ZBOX PI336 pico pocket-sized
| computer:
|
| https://www.zotac.com/us/product/mini_pcs/zbox-pi336-pico-wi...
|
| It's not a single-cable device, but it has a lot of ports. It
| runs a slow processor, has only 4G of RAM and 128G of
| storage...and reviews of previous generations have not been
| kind.
|
| My personal tiny PC lust object is the Ockel Sirius A Pro:
|
| https://www.ockelcomputers.com/sirius-a/
|
| It's six years old now?, and runs an Atom processor...and
| they're asking USD$800 for one, but it's got 8 gigs of RAM, 128
| gigs of storage, and has a battery and 1080p touch display.
| Hopelessly underpowered and overpriced, I still desperately
| want one.
|
| EDIT: Finally, there's the MeLE Quieter3Q, available on Amazon.
| See the reviews on YouTube.
| sjs382 wrote:
| MeLE Quieter3C https://a.co/d/9tpIgwQ
|
| At work, we deploy a previous version of this (without the
| display/power/etc through usb-c) as an appliance and its a
| great little machine.
| RobertRoberts wrote:
| Consider the Lenovo Nano:
| https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/c/desktops/thinkcentre/m-nano-s...
|
| I have a couple of the ThinkCentre Nano computers. They are
| tiny, a fat fit for a pocket, but easily transported if you
| wanted to. AMD Ryzen processor and plenty of ram with SSD.
|
| Still need power though... and I am not crazy about the power
| connector though (seems too proprietary) but it seems very
| sturdy at least.
| w0m wrote:
| ... i have no use for one; but i want it.
| johnwalkr wrote:
| At least the m90n1 model has power-in and video out on the
| usb-c connector.[1]
|
| [1]https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkCentre/Think
| Ce...
| rooster212 wrote:
| I see why this is tricky, because I'd argue a Mac Mini fulfils
| that requirement - but it doesn't do the power delivery aspect.
| If you ignore the power requirements it becomes much easier.
|
| It's funny because I searched for it and Intel has a page on
| this exact thing about their lineup of NUCs -
| https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000...
|
| It'd be a small market for sure, which is why I don't think you
| see it. Personally I'd maybe grab a MacBook Air or something as
| that is likely the best "power to weight" ratio for a laptop.
|
| Your mention of the Framework desktop case seems like it would
| work no? As it can be powered over USB-C? Or does it not do
| output over the same port?
| workethics wrote:
| This may be a weird recommendation but the steam deck may be
| something to consider if your docks have a usb c connector.
|
| It's nearly as powerful as my desktop, and I can't find any
| laptops/portaPCs with similar specs at that pricepoint.
| cylinder714 wrote:
| I kinda think that the Steam Deck and the other new handheld
| gaming PCs are the new incarnation of the netbook. Powerful
| enough to be useful, with a usable screen, you just need a
| mouse and keyboard to do basic tasks. Plug in a monitor,
| you're all set.
| UI_at_80x24 wrote:
| This is my intended use-case too.
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| An NUC or similar SFF desktop PC seem to be pretty close to
| your requirements. Without an optical drive and without any
| spinning rust media, they're pretty durable. I use a lot of
| fanless PCs from OnLogic, Cincoze, and Neousys in industrial
| control panels...they have 'rugged' models that are designed to
| mount inside heavy equipment or prototype vehicles that you
| could probably use as a hammer, but even a consumer NUC will be
| fine in a backpack.
|
| The form factor is typically more boxy, like 5x5x2" rather than
| 9x12x1", so they'll fit easily into a backpack but not so well
| in a briefcase. You can get them with laptop processors and
| passive cooling or the worst of both worlds - a whiny little
| centrifugal laptop fan, or you can get a luxuriously quiet
| 140mm desktop fan, desktop-grade processor and graphics that
| will blow any ultrabook out of the water.
|
| However, they're not typically oriented for single-cable-
| connectivity. Why is it such a big deal to plug in one cable
| for the power supply and either a couple for the mouse,
| keyboard, and monitor, or one for the Thunderbolt hub?
| possiblydrunk wrote:
| Early 2000's (2002?) there was a pocket PDA device that ran linux
| and had a workable keyboard - the Sharp Zaurus SL-5000D
| (developer edition). 32 Mb RAM! Had a JVM installed. Got mine at
| Java One with a Linksys 802.11b Network Card. Fun (at the time)
| to boot up linux and SSH into my servers.
| Processor: StrongARM (206 MHz 32-bit SA-1110) Operating
| System: Linux 2.4 (Embedix) Memory: 32 MB SDRAM, 16 MB
| Flash ROM, Display: 3.5in 240 x 320 pixel, Color
| Reflective TFT LCD, 16 bits (65,536 colors) Power:
| Removable, rechargeable 3.7V Lithium-Ion battery pack, Built-in
| 3.0V back-up battery, 5.0V AC adapter Communications: USB
| Docking Station, IrDA infrared port Expansion slot: One
| CompactFlash Type I / Type II slot, One Secure Digital slot
| Audio: Stereo headphone jack Size: 2.90 x 5.40 x 0.80in.
| (74 x 138 x 21mm) Weight: 7.3 oz (206g)
| ElCheapo wrote:
| Can we stop with this absolute fantasy about PCs that "fit in
| your pocket"?
|
| The medium _is_ the message, the form _is_ the functionality.
|
| Smartphones have been "pocketable PCs" for more than a decade
| already, but are dumbed down because their inputs and outputs are
| limited. You can't type effectively, your screen is small, your
| battery is limited. Would you want a command line interface on
| your Smart TV using only a remote? How about XFCE? Or GNOME? No,
| for a Smart TV we have purposefully made OSs that are limited in
| functionality such as Kodi, LibreELEC and others specifically
| because of the type of inputs and outputs needed.
|
| I think the only way we could ever get a portable PC experience
| on the go is by having AR glasses project a full desktop in front
| of us and let us control it with an imaginary keyboard and
| touchpad by somehow analyzing our hand movements on a hard
| surface in front of us. But that's only if we get to a point
| where said devices are fast and hold a decent battery, which,
| with current technology, is impossible.
| tenebrisalietum wrote:
| > Would you want a command line interface on your Smart TV
| using only a remote?
|
| Kinda, if the remote had a useable keyboard (I think some do).
|
| Mostly I would like a universal search: to be able to type the
| name of a show, channel, or other media source and have all
| relevant apps or TV functions that can play it come up. Also it
| would be cool to enter something like "seek MM:SS" to tell the
| current media to go to that precise point, and universal
| commands across all players/apps would be pretty keen, like
| "captions off", "language XXXX", etc. Just need a TAB key for
| autocomplete.
| noduerme wrote:
| Well.. I mean, I've been using $100 PCs-on-a-stick for about a
| decade now, plugging them into hotel room TVs or my projector
| at home or wherever I go... just need a cheap wireless
| keyboard/trackpad. I use that for about half my home
| entertainment viewing as well. Definitely no need to strap
| hardware to my head to game/code/surf on a big screen with a
| tiny device.
| nemoniac wrote:
| Do I understand you correctly that you plug the PC on a stick
| into the USB port of a TV which it then uses the TV as
| display and connects to a bluetooth keyboard? Could you give
| pointers to such devices and perhaos Linux distros that work
| on them?
| detaro wrote:
| this kind of device: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=stick+pc
| tbran wrote:
| If you're running Linux, you could use your phone as a
| touchpad/keyboard with KDE Connect from the KDE project. I
| use it with XFCE.
|
| https://kdeconnect.kde.org/
| ryukafalz wrote:
| This requires that you be connected to the same wifi
| network, right? That can be an issue if you're at a hotel
| and don't have another keyboard to connect to wifi with
| (plus hotel networks can interfere with this).
| ElCheapo wrote:
| Yes, and people brought their Machintoshes 512k to work with
| a bag. I sincerely don't understand how your PC-on-a-stick
| experience has any relation to what I was talking about. You
| have to connect it to a screen and bring your own
| peripherals. I don't believe that's what people think when
| they hear "pocketable PC".
| selfhoster11 wrote:
| For one, a PC on a stick is much lighter than a Macintosh
| 512k. And it has no CRT or hard drive that can be smashed
| during transport. You can slip it into a work backpack or
| briefcase - try doing that with the Macintosh.
|
| You do have to bring your own peripherals, but being able
| to move your computer around previously set-up work points
| is already an improvement from not being able to carry it
| at all, or carrying around a laptop.
| ElCheapo wrote:
| I used the Machintosh example because the use case you're
| talking about is a completely old fashioned way of
| intending "portable computing". Portable computing
| currently means being able to take your device out of
| your pocket and being able to use it on the go. The Intel
| stick certainly has its uses, but are unrelated from the
| topic at hand and strikes me as just an excuse to share
| something you do that you think is cool.
| selfhoster11 wrote:
| There's no reason the MNT Reform cannot be used both on
| the go and in a docking station.
|
| The parent likes to use an "old fashioned" (I disagree
| with that judgement, but fine) paradigm of portability,
| so what? Does that make it a less valid choice?
| "Portable" is a generic term that's not reserved for
| discussions of any specific kind of portability, so why
| not coin/use a specific term for "fits in your pocket and
| is usable on the train" if you need one, rather than
| silently assume?
| badsectoracula wrote:
| > Can we stop with this absolute fantasy about PCs that "fit in
| your pocket"?
|
| No, because it isn't fantasy and i want those PCs that "fit in
| my pocket" - after all they do exist, see GPD's pocketable PCs.
|
| > Smartphones have been "pocketable PCs" for more than a decade
| already
|
| Smartphones have their on OSes, UX, applications, etc. The
| point of projects like GPD Win or the one linked above is to
| run the same programs, OS, etc as you'd run on a regular laptop
| or a desktop PC.
|
| And this is something that can be useful, even if it isn't at
| the same frequency as a smartphone - they do not have the same
| use after all.
|
| Personally i have a GPD Win 1 which is pretty much the same
| form factor as the pocketable PC linked in the article
| (actually it is better IMO because the joysticks and back
| buttons it has are used very naturally to move the mouse cursor
| on the desktop and act as a mouse). I do not use it daily but
| whenever i want to go somewhere briefly and need a PC (e.g. i
| need to show a project of mine to someone), i pick that up
| instead of my laptop: it is _much_ lighter (its weight barely
| registers), it fits in my fanny bag next to my smartphone and
| provides pretty much the same functionality as a regular laptop
| - it is just weaker and slightly more awkward to type on. But i
| 'm not going to write code for hours straight on it anyway, so
| it doesn't matter. However i _do_ use the keyboard frequently,
| for command line or shortcuts or whatever, and it is miles
| better than something like Termux and /or the virtual
| touchscreen keyboards you'd find in smartphones (which with
| swipe typing are decent but fail at everything else).
|
| The main issue with the linked PC is that it is ARM instead of
| x86 which IMO limits its utility. I can run any old application
| on my GPD Win 1 and for my own applications i can just copy the
| binaries to it directly but for something like the MNT Pocket
| i'd need to cross compile just for it and it is limited to
| stuff that i can do that.
| 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
| https://www.gpd.hk/gpdpocket/
| ElCheapo wrote:
| I think you're being extremely vague about the things you are
| using your GDP for. Nothing you've written strikes me as
| something that couldn't be achieved with a proper I/O module
| attached to a smartphone.
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| I think the point is this:
|
| > Smartphones have their on OSes, UX, applications, etc.
| The point of projects like GPD Win or the one linked above
| is to run the same programs, OS, etc as you'd run on a
| regular laptop or a desktop PC.
|
| Sure, an Android device could probably be hacked to do
| that. But most Android devices are usually locked-down,
| whereas the GDP & friends make it a point to be open.
|
| I guess we should probably push for more openness from
| smartphone vendors (including Apple) instead of having yet
| another different device. Especially since now everything
| and the kitchen sink connects via USB-C. I'd absolutely
| love to be able to plug my phone in the USB-C dock at work
| instead of lugging around a laptop (which I use on top of a
| desk tethered to some fat screen and external keyboard like
| 99% of the time anyway).
|
| At one point, I remember Samsung had something like that on
| their Galaxy line (DEX? can't remember the name). I was
| actually ready to pull the trigger on a tablet with that
| feature. Luckily, I found out they had just or were about
| to remove it.
| MikusR wrote:
| DEX was and still is a thing. There newer were plans to
| remove it. The only thing that was abandoned was the full
| Ubuntu VM support. But majority of that capability can be
| replicated with termux
| mek6800d2 wrote:
| YADD = YACC++ ? ("yet another different device") :-)
| wvenable wrote:
| I code on my GPD pocket.
|
| You could, in theory, use a smartphone for this but the
| software situation is so terrible that you really can't.
| Taywee wrote:
| I could actually work on it. Good luck getting any
| reasonable IDE experience, a compiler, a debugger, etc
| working on Android or iOS. Real image editing, the Godot
| editor, Blender, web dev tools, LMMS, etc.
|
| The most limiting bit about phones is the OS itself. You
| could hypothetically get most of these things working on
| phone OSes, but only for a massive amount of effort to port
| something for a single-digit number of users. I don't even
| know how you'd get a compiler going, but I suspect it would
| be a non-starter on iOS.
| fsflover wrote:
| No. It's not a fantasy. Librem 5 and Pinephone are real and
| working great. You can even connect them to a keyboard and
| screen and you get a desktop.
| ryukafalz wrote:
| For some definition of "great". My Librem 5 won't last
| through the day even if I'm not particularly running
| anything.
|
| I agree with the general sentiment and want a device like
| this, but I've never had one that worked as well as my old
| N900.
| teawrecks wrote:
| Can we stop with the normal HN cynicism? Let people try stuff.
| If you don't like it, that's ok, keep scrolling.
| bombcar wrote:
| The HP Palmtop (200LX for life) was an entire 80186 PC with CGA
| graphics that fit in a pocket. In 2000. We can certainly do
| better than that now if we want to.
| Grumbledour wrote:
| Maybe we can't? I have been wondering about that for quite
| some time now.
|
| We have been talking about ubiquitous computing for a long
| time, but instead of doing that, it seems we have settled on
| using smartphones for everything, retiring specialized or
| underpowered devices in their favor, even if they are just
| 60% as good as their predecessors.
|
| When a company tries to build something in this niche, it
| seems we need as much power as possible to make it
| potentially as mass appealing as possible, which in turn
| means tradeoffs in many other areas (size, heat, battery
| life, software etc.) that make it unappealing to most but a
| small minority.
|
| Now, it would seem easy to create a specialized device by
| putting some constraints on it, right? Make a computer
| optimized for writers! Make one optimized for day planing!
| Make one that is not good for playing video or games but
| great for spreadsheets etc. These devices could excel at
| their given niche and give us back advantages like weeks long
| battery life or incredible small size etc. But it seems, no
| one is willing to work with these constraints. Of course,
| also no one seems to be capable to create custom software,
| which I guess these devices would also need to be good at
| what they were supposed to do.
|
| Sometimes you find these things in small, specialized
| markets, but even then they always seem to be not really much
| better or even worse than what we had in the 90s. I am not
| sure if it is because of market dynamics or lack of vision,
| but all we ever seem to get are compromises.
| bombcar wrote:
| In the 90s the market was new and fresh and nobody really
| knew what would sell, so people were gambling on many
| variations of product.
|
| Now we know what sells, and it's an iPhone or an iPhone
| wannabe. Nobody wants to spend tens of thousands of dollars
| on something that isn't a phone, so nobody does the
| development to mass-produce these items.
|
| Notice how phones were wildly insanely weird before the
| iPhone and very quickly afterwards they were all black
| slabs?
|
| You'd probably have more luck cannibalizing the 200LX and
| shoving a phone inside it.
| mrlemke wrote:
| I just want a 200LX with a bit more RAM, wifi, and a new-ish
| CPU. As far as I'm concerned, it could run on a Raspberry 0
| W. I haven't seen anything new with that Palmtop style of
| keyboard. It needs both good keys and a decent layout, but
| everything new I've seen seems to compromise on both.
| danparsonson wrote:
| >...AR glasses project a full desktop in front of us and let us
| control it with an imaginary keyboard...
|
| That sounds only slightly more dreadful than the touchscreen
| keyboard experience we have currently; I seem to be in a
| minority but proper tactile keyboards, even tiny ones, are
| worlds better IMO. The best phone I ever had for input was a
| Blackberry Bold 9700, and I miss that keyboard almost literally
| every single time I type something on my magic screen.
| wvenable wrote:
| You'll be happy to know that the current trend is to combine
| AR/VR with a physical keyboard. The Quest has an option to
| bring your physical Bluetooth keyboard into VR -- it only
| supports a small subset of models right now, though.
| dTal wrote:
| >I think the only way we could ever get a portable PC
| experience on the go is by having AR glasses project a full
| desktop in front of us and let us control it with an imaginary
| keyboard and touchpad by somehow analyzing our hand movements
| on a hard surface in front of us.
|
| Or you could buy a GPD Micro PC and save a lot of trouble. It's
| a full x86 laptop the size of a chunky smartphone, and it's
| totally practical to use it as a PC.
| RockingGoodNite wrote:
| >> Would you want a command line interface on your Smart TV
| using only a remote?
|
| Yes. We've been doing it for years since we cut the cord from
| cable TV. We switched to a plain PC (Lennovo low end laptop for
| $200) running Ubuntu and use an Air Remote (combination
| mouse/keyboard) around $15 on Amazon and watch all content in
| Chrome. It's great! I can get a shell and change things if I
| want, ssh in from my office desktop, etc.
| otikik wrote:
| They are dumbed down primarily because it suits the interests
| of their manufacturers. The UI hurdles exist, but are secondary
| to that.
| margarina72 wrote:
| > but are dumbed down because their inputs and outputs are
| limited
|
| More likely because low-level artificial limitation are in
| place, preventing the full use of the device.
| thereddaikon wrote:
| You get it.
|
| While it is possible to cram PC features into a pocket-able
| design. And other commenters here have given examples such as
| the old pocket pc standard. Its not very good and didn't stick
| around.
|
| The user interface and format will in large part define the
| kind of work you will do on a device. Pocket sized devices suck
| for a lot of "real work" use cases because small and limited
| inputs combined with small screens don't make for a pleasurable
| or productive work experience.
|
| Big displays and comfortable full sized keyboards are
| necessity.
|
| There has been on and off talk about dock-able pocket sized
| devices that can transition between being mobile and being
| proper PCs with the use of a dock that expands its IO options.
| But the software has always seemed to be lacking there. Apps on
| my Pixel 5a sometimes get the screen orientation wrong. How can
| I trust them to seamlessly switch between a mobile and desktop
| experience and not freak out in the process?
| stonogo wrote:
| My whole family uses essentially a TV with GNOME running on an
| attached micropc. We use something like this:
| https://www.amazon.com/Android-Gimibox-Wireless-Keyboard-Pro...
| Works like a Wiimote. We don't have to limit functionality, we
| just launch a web browser and have the streaming services on
| the bookmark toolbar. None of our visitors have ever had
| problems operating this system, even ones who have never heard
| of linux or GNOME or Wiimotes. You just flip the remote over to
| type text into the search box. When the keyboard side is "up,"
| the motion pointer and the "bottom side" is disabled. Flip the
| remote and the keyboard is disabled and the motion control
| resumes. Intuitive as hell, works great.
|
| My point is that minor adaptations can lead to surprisingly
| pleasant functionality. Past failures are not reasons to stop
| trying new things; they're reasons to try other new things.
| ElCheapo wrote:
| Your set up works because you tailored both the hardware and
| the software to make up for the shortcomings of the devices.
| Normally a TV remote doesn't have a full fledged keyboard
| attached to it, so many applications become borderline
| unusable. What you did is enhance the inputs of your device
| and this opened up many more possibilities. You also tweaked
| the software from its ootb configuration to make operations
| smoother.
|
| None of these devices attempt doing something similar. They
| offer less options than normal computers and their desktop is
| left unchanged.
|
| Lastly, what you wrote actually proves my point. You are not
| using your linux system to do everything a computer does.
| Your set of functionalities is limited to media consumption
| and as such you just had to find a workaround for your use
| case. Could you browse (or even write) your emails on your
| TV? Sure, but you'd have to use a heavily customized UI and
| UX if you don't want people to squint their eyes and take
| ages to navigate everything. And who's going to write such a
| program? And what about all the other applications that we
| expect a complete system to have such as a general purpose
| web browser, a video player, a file browser, etc.? My whole
| point is that these "pocketable PCs" might be great for a
| subset of problems, but they have to be tailored for them.
| They are terrible general computing devices.
| pessimizer wrote:
| You're just making things up. Your "heavily customized UI"
| is bumping up the font sizes by a couple of points.
| ElCheapo wrote:
| Try "bumping the font size up" in Thunderbird and tell me
| how nicely it scales on your TV
| stonogo wrote:
| Yeah, we browse all the time on it. Especially IMDB. I'm
| not sure what part of "it works fine" is confusing you.
|
| > None of these devices attempt doing something similar.
| They offer less options than normal computers and their
| desktop is left unchanged.
|
| They have swappable SoCs at their cores, including
| available on-board FPGA, and the existing product ships a
| customized Sway UI by default. They are far more
| configurable than other laptops. One person already
| modified her mainboard to include a different charging
| circuit and added an ergonomic keyboard. You have gone from
| pessimism to outright misinformation in pursuit of your
| argument. Ask yourself whether you're here to discuss the
| topic or just win internet debates.
| yosamino wrote:
| No. It's not a fantasy. The Nokia N900 was _amazing_.
|
| It functioned as a phone with a touchscreen to deliver the
| experience that had now become the dominant one.
|
| But also, by sliding up the screen, it had a fully featured
| keyboard, and essentially transmogrified into a "pc that fits
| into your pocket".
|
| So you could with a one handed push go from the touchscreen-
| only experience back to edit documents by using a combination
| of the keyboard and the touchscreen (with a stylus if
| neccessary).
|
| I stopped using it because it lost software support and then
| the touchscreen stopped working, but I have it sitting here at
| my desk.
|
| Every phone I have used since has been worse.
| thereddaikon wrote:
| having a keyboard does not a PC make. The N900 was great to
| type on by cellphone standards but it was still a cell phone.
| Maemo is not a PC OS. It did not do what a PC did.
| PopePompus wrote:
| You could easily (and I did) put a full Debian user space
| on the N900, and maintain all the cell phone functionality.
| It offered a pretty complete Linux experience.
| selfhoster11 wrote:
| N900 was a great deal closer to a PC OS than any release of
| Android I've seen past Android 2.x. It even has X11 and a
| built in, honest-to-goodness version of apt! You can't say
| that about many phones these days.
|
| I'm almost sure that with enough swearing and elbow grease
| I could replace the entire GUI with something that I can
| write myself to be tailor-made to my needs. Doing anything
| even close to this for Android seems like a daunting task.
| thom_ wrote:
| I remember vividly smashing the stylus into the unresponsive
| tft screen until it broke in a white rage. The n900 totally
| sucked, although it did look neat. The wifi sucked, the
| screen sucked, no capacitive touch. Also the battery sucked
| like one and a half hours screentime. And the apps they
| sucked. Oh and it was slow enough every webpage loaded would
| have you near tears in anticipation. But - to nokias credit,
| it did fit into your pocket, helpfully to compensate for the
| wad of cash absent after the purchase.
| walterbell wrote:
| Maemo is being rebooted, based on Devuan, for N900, PinePhone
| and other devices,
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32699853
| ElCheapo wrote:
| It was amazing at doing.... what? You've just listed a bunch
| of hardware functionalities without actually saying what you
| managed to use it for.
| unregistereddev wrote:
| The integrated keyboard had a tab key, so autocomplete
| worked on the terminal. This was a really big deal that
| made the tiny keyboard much more useful for real work.
|
| The Maemo distribution that the N900 ran was based on
| debian, and you could point apt to the standard package
| repositories to install pretty much any Linux software.
| This opened many, many possibilities - for example, I had
| an always-on computer in my pocket with WireShark
| installed. I could (and did) occasionally sniff wireless
| traffic to troubleshoot something. If you couldn't find a
| mobile app that would do what you wanted, you could usually
| install a desktop app and it'd work (though sometimes the
| UI was awkward on that small screen).
|
| While most of the functionality can be replicated on a
| modern Android device, these pocket computers were
| different in a special way. The integrated physical
| keyboard, the tab key, the full Linux kernel and apt, all
| combined to create an experience that was distinctly
| different from Android. It really felt like a pocket-sized
| workstation - it was a full computer first, and pocket-
| sized second. Android smartphones are pocket-sized mobile
| devices first, and potential workstations second.
| tluyben2 wrote:
| When I travelled a lot, I just brought a pocket Linux
| machine with keyboard (first the Zaurus, then Pandora, then
| GDP Pocket 1) and that was all a lot more comfortable
| hauling along than my laptop. I didn't have to do stretches
| of programming, but for small changes, or some server
| management, it was great. I am waiting for the Astro Slide
| with Linux to arrive.
| yosamino wrote:
| All the things you would use a phone for in the early
| 2010s: * Phone calls * Video calls
| over XMPP * Text/XMPP messaging * Web browsing
| * Document editing * Writing and receiving email
| * Playing music ( it had a built in FM transmitter - how
| cool was that!) * Setting Alarms * weather
| widgets * Writing PHP programms * Writing
| python programms * ssh-ing into servers * gps
| navigation * take and share pictures * multi-
| colored status LEDs * it had usb-otg so you could
| use as a flash drive * share an gsm internet
| connection via USB
|
| Some of these things work better with a touch screen - some
| work better with a slide-out physical keyboard... it was
| just a really good device.
| riedel wrote:
| Playing text adventures was a nice past time. I had Psion
| those days and a Nokia 6800. I really wonder what it
| would be like to have a nice android phone with a
| keyboard those days... But I guess this is mostly
| nostalgia.
| throw10920 wrote:
| While all of these things are _possible_ on a tiny PC,
| many of them are very sub-optimal - like how many
| languages are Turing-complete but _not_ of equivalent use
| (e.g. assembly is not as useful as Rust in the vast
| majority of programming domains).
|
| Things like "writing PHP/Python programs" and "document
| editing", while things that you _can_ do on a pocket-
| sized laptop, are _much_ better to do on a real laptop or
| desktop. A tiny PC will strain your eyes, decrease your
| reading, typing and interaction speed, hurt your neck,
| and react slowly relative to a full computer - regardless
| of whether you 're using a soft-keyboard or a physical
| (but tiny) hardware keyboard.
|
| Although ElCheapo may have thrown a lot of unnecessary
| junk into their comments, their point "The medium _is_
| the message, the form _is_ the functionality. " is still
| true - you don't want to use C# for tiny (kilobytes RAM)
| embedded devices and you don't want to use this pocket PC
| for writing code, even though you _can_.
| ElCheapo wrote:
| Was my post confusing? Nothing you've written can't be
| done with an Android phone with a keyboard attachment.
| When is this super important general purpose computing
| thingy supposed to come into play?
| yosamino wrote:
| > Was my post confusing?
|
| I possibly misunderstood what you were getting at. You
| are right - an android with a a keyboard is certainly not
| all that different.
| tmikaeld wrote:
| The key is the keyboard is integrated and foldable, it's
| the convenience and portability that is key. With an
| android (with two exceptions), you have to have two
| separate pieces, something to put them on and then pair
| and charge both parts.
|
| In short: You can pull it out of your pocket anywhere,
| type something with both thumbs on a full keyboard, then
| fold it down again in seconds.
|
| There are Android phones with a full keyboard as well,
| but they are closed source/hardware.
| ElCheapo wrote:
| Your reply is baffling.
|
| First you say that with "android" (as if they made
| hardware) you can't have an integrated keyboard.
|
| Then you say that Android phones with a full integrated
| keyboard actually exist.
|
| But then you move the goalpost saying that they aren't
| open source/hardware. Which is false, by the way, since
| this device [https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/pro1]
| runs LineageOS, and phones with completely free software
| down to the firmware level don't exist, including the
| N900 which needs a binary blob to start the wifi module
| (as far as I know) and whose hardware is not open source
| in the slightest.
|
| And even after all of this I've been given zero use cases
| that an Android phone can't provide with the proper
| application installed.
| dspillett wrote:
| _> But then you move the goalpost_
|
| Let us be fair here: you moved the goalposts first by
| going from "it is an absolute fantasy" to, once people
| pointed out that they already exist, "but I can't see a
| use for one".
| ElCheapo wrote:
| >Let us be fair here
|
| Why even say this if you immediately proceed by not being
| fair?
|
| Pocketable computers are not a "fantasy" in the sense
| that there aren't any devices capable of running a
| desktop OS while being pocketable. This was never the
| argument, as also demonstrated by my other replies in the
| thread. My argument is that _using_ a pocketable device
| as a desktop or laptop is a fantasy. It 's something that
| sounds very cool on paper and which has a small cult
| following, but in reality all these people would fare
| even better if someone wrote an Android app tailored to
| their use case.
| throw10920 wrote:
| Your arguments would be much better-received if you were
| less abrasive and threw less manipulative language like
| "Can we stop with this absolute fantasy" in them.
| pessimizer wrote:
| Then it's an unfalsifiable argument and people are
| wasting their time discussing it with you in good faith.
| After I got my N900, I didn't feel a need to bring my
| laptop on short vacations, because I could do everything
| on it that I could on my laptop. But no matter what I
| say, you believe I'd be better served with a complete
| suite of apps that both are specifically tailored for me
| and don't exist.
|
| Of course that's true. In fact, I'd go as far as to say
| that if you wrote an entire gnutils userspace for
| Android, and gave me a slide out keyboard instead of
| obliterating half my screen if I need to do input, you
| would have given me something that is almost identical to
| an N900.
| dspillett wrote:
| _> >Let us be fair here Why even say this if you
| immediately proceed by not being fair?_
|
| Pointing it hypocrisy is fair in my book. If you
| significant change of wording isn't a shift of the goal
| posts then neither is the others posters clarification.
| dTal wrote:
| >My argument is that using a pocketable device as a
| desktop or laptop is a fantasy
|
| It's not. My GPD Micro PC is currently my daily driver
| laptop, and it fits in my back pocket. I have done CAD
| work on it with no trouble at all. There's no "Android
| app" that can compete with the universe of PC software.
|
| You should try one before you make sweeping judgements
| about what is and isn't possible.
| teddyh wrote:
| (Note: The Pro1 from F(x)tec has been superseded by the
| Pro1 X, released _this month_.)
| krolden wrote:
| And has yet to actually ship to anyone. I'm pretty sure
| people have been waiting ~2 years for their preorders to
| ship. Not to mention the specs are quite dated at this
| point. I think they even had to start making them with a
| newer chip because they weren't able to ship before the
| original chip lost support from Qualcomm.
| krolden wrote:
| The fxtec has been a huge disappointment. If you can even
| get upirs, its now dated hardware and people have been
| reporting many issues with it.
|
| Also no it most definitely contains blobs.
|
| https://community.fxtec.com/topic/3326-pro%C2%B9-x-%E2%80
| %93...
| selfhoster11 wrote:
| Barely any good Android phones with a QWERTY keyboard
| exist these days.
| rowanG077 wrote:
| You can transmit FM radio on Android with a keyboard
| attachment? How?
| ElCheapo wrote:
| How is the presence of an antenna in any way
| demonstrative of the general purpose computing
| capabilities of the N900 as opposed to "not pocketable
| PC" Androids? I believe that if I were to attach a USB
| radio module to my phone I could write an Android app to
| make use of it as a trasmitter.
| rjsw wrote:
| The point of the FM transmitter was to be able to use the
| N900 with a car head unit to play music from the phone.
| freedomben wrote:
| Oh wow, that's a badass feature. I'm legit impressed
| (this is not sarcasm)
| rjsw wrote:
| There are FM dongles that plug into a headphone socket,
| but building it into the phone from the start says to me
| that Nokia really knew how people would want to use it.
| rowanG077 wrote:
| If the point is you can transform an android device into
| a general purpose machine if you use unenumerable amounts
| of hardware addons and hacks. Then yes, of course you are
| right. It will be unuseable in practice which is
| generally what people want to do.
| misnome wrote:
| Depends how fast you can type, I suppose....
| danans wrote:
| > * Writing PHP programms
|
| > * Writing python programms
|
| Honest question: what is a real world use case for
| writing PHP or Python programs on a tiny laptop with a 7"
| display that wouldn't be better served by a 13" laptop. I
| can't imagine writing code while standing on a train, for
| example. But more important, I'm having trouble imagining
| what kind of work situation would require that.
| sangnoir wrote:
| > Honest question: what is a real world use case for
| writing PHP or Python programs on a tiny laptop with a 7"
| display that wouldn't be better served by a 13" laptop
|
| A computer you can take everywhere when you need to
| squeeze in extra computer-time into any unplanned free
| moment opportunistically (e.g. Leetcode practice,
| dissertation crunch), or being on call and only need ssh
| & chat access 24/7.
|
| I carried a high-DPI 7" tablet with a keyboard case to
| good effect. It was less of a physical burden than
| lugging around a 13-incher, and was inconspicuous when
| outdoors or places I may have felt unsafe carrying a
| laptop
| danans wrote:
| > It was less of a physical burden than lugging around a
| 13-incher,
|
| I guess this is a very personal thing, but I've always
| found the weight difference between a 7" tablet and a
| slim 13" laptop to be pretty minimal, and I walk-commute
| on average 3 miles a day carrying a laptop.
|
| > and was inconspicuous when outdoors or places I may
| have felt unsafe carrying a laptop
|
| It's probably a lifestyle choice, but if I were to feel
| unsafe using a laptop in a space, I probably wouldn't be
| able to focus enough to work, and instead of using a less
| conspicuous device, I would relocate somewhere that I
| felt safe. Also if I were on-call I would doubly want to
| be in a place where I felt I could focus completely on my
| work. I don't doubt that the market niche for
| inconspicuous general purpose computing devices exists,
| but I don't think it's huge.
| INTPenis wrote:
| I had one, my brother had one, honestly it was shit at
| everything you expect from a phone.
|
| The only good point about it was that it had a full and
| integrated keyboard, and a Linux based OS you could use to
| manage your servers over ssh in extreme cases.
|
| Answering calls on it was a hit or miss, the UI just froze
| for several seconds from the incredible stress of suddenly
| starting up the phone app when someone called you.
|
| I'd much rather 1) separate my work from my personal life
| and 2) have a laptop in a backpack for when I know I might
| have to do work.
| brokenkebab2 wrote:
| For example I could prepare presentations with it, or deal
| with long emails, and write code - all day long. While it
| was less comfortable compared to full-sized PC, it was
| normal, alright. Appearing in the same situation with any
| modern smartphone I would surrender immediately, because it
| would be literally crippling experience. Not to mention
| that it was technically much more flexible.
| Morgawr wrote:
| They mentioned editing documents
| rchaud wrote:
| > Smartphones have been "pocketable PCs" for more than a decade
| already, but are dumbed down because their inputs and outputs
| are limited.
|
| Wrong. Smartphones are dumbed down because the manufacturers
| would greatly prefer that you not run any kind of software that
| they or their partners did not directly provide.
|
| The iOS App Store would have been barer than a Soviet grocery
| store if iOS supported Flash.
|
| The fact that a full computing device in your pocket cannot be
| used to build and deploy applications makes it not much more
| useful than a color PDA from 2005.
| conorcleary wrote:
| The cellular phone is as 'personal' computer as the masses will
| ever adopt. It's the ultimate PC.
| causi wrote:
| _Would you want a command line interface on your Smart TV using
| only a remote?_
|
| You're reminding me of how nice it would be if smart TV remotes
| _did_ come with thumb boards built in.
| mdp2021 wrote:
| > _having AR glasses project a full desktop in front of us and
| let us control it with an imaginary keyboard and touchpad by
| somehow analyzing our hand movements [...] only if ... fast and
| hold a decent battery_
|
| I have been there. Speed and battery do not seem to be much of
| a problem - even with the not-recentmost technology I use,
| there have been laptops which "do" and last less. While having
| a quite decent resolution, the displays do not replace the real
| world experience for offering virtual keyboards - better input
| systems must be adopted.
|
| Mobile systems are not <<"dumbed down">>: they have more
| frequently found leaner options depending on the main purpose
| of the device, but you do e.g. control Android with physical
| keyboards, complete with shortcuts and function keys.
| freedomben wrote:
| Android phones have mostly been this for years. most of them
| don't have the physical keyboard built in obviously, but you
| can buy all sorts of different pocket-sized keyboards[1] that
| often include a touchpad, and can plug in via USB OTG (which
| can be a wireless receiver) or through bluetooth. Add an app
| like Termux and I could (if I had to) live on the thing.
|
| [1]: I used this one for a while:
| https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D2BG6R5/ref=ppx_yo_dt...
|
| [2]: This one is awesome too with android TV:
| https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WJGSXT8/ref=ppx_yo_dt...
| squarefoot wrote:
| > Smartphones have been "pocketable PCs" for more than a decade
| already, but are dumbed down because their inputs and outputs
| are limited.
|
| I wish it was only about the i/o: pocket Bluetooth keyboards,
| mice and other i/o devices would be just a few bucks away. No,
| the problem is rather that phones/tablets use crippled dumbed
| down and tight closed operating systems that offer only a small
| fraction of the power a real computer offers, not to mention
| the huge privacy and security issues involved. Having the same
| hardware performance and storage of a good laptop means nothing
| if the OS doesn't offer a way to use it in a transparent and
| trustworthy way.
| ElCheapo wrote:
| What is stopping you from adapting AOSP to have better
| keyboard integration? Android has been modified before to
| adapt to folding screens, tablets and multiple screens.
| selfhoster11 wrote:
| Locked bootloaders, for one. Even if you can unlock it,
| there's a disincentive to do so thanks to losing the
| SafetyNet status - which will brick a whole range of apps
| that refuse to run if it's not intact.
| mastazi wrote:
| > Would you want a command line interface on your Smart TV
| using only a remote? How about XFCE? Or GNOME? No
|
| Yes. After struggling with every single type of Smart TV
| platform (Google TV, Apple TV, Amazon Fire TV). I settled for a
| Linux HTPC that I control with a Logitech K400. I finally found
| what I needed and I'm never going back to looking for crappy
| apps on some semi-empty store. Walled gardens are really sad.
|
| You just need a remote with QWERTY and trackpad, and a few
| adjustments to the OS (e.g. 125% UI scaling works pretty well
| for me).
| ElCheapo wrote:
| >You just need a remote with QWERTY and trackpad
|
| Sure, if you change your requirements and sidestep mine then
| everything becomes easy. Now try doing the same with an
| actual TV remote, which my question actually asked about.
| dsr_ wrote:
| I have a Logitech Ksomething wireless keyboard with
| integrated touchpad, and a standard IR remote.
|
| They cost about the same. Some machines come with IR
| receivers, some need them added on via USB. If you need
| one, I can highly recommend the FLIRC: https://flirc.tv/
|
| I flip between the devices depending on what I'm doing.
| Mostly, it's the remote.
| mastazi wrote:
| Is there some law that mandates using a remote? I don't
| really understand your point
| ElCheapo wrote:
| Using Linux on a TV is not the same as using a TV as a
| general computing device. You still use it as a media
| consumption machine, and that's why you've been able to
| set it up accordingly. Now what if I asked you to set up
| your TV to do everything I do on my general purpose
| laptop or desktop computer? It would suck, plain and
| simple.
| mastazi wrote:
| Yes, this is true, point taken, I wouldn't try and use
| that TV to do work. But, as a streaming machine, it is
| really awesome, I get a level of flexibility that
| Apple/Google/Fire TV would never allow. But I agree with
| you, it's not going to replace my desktop or my laptop
| any time soon.
| pessimizer wrote:
| > Now what if I asked you to set up your TV to do
| everything I do on my general purpose laptop or desktop
| computer? It would suck, plain and simple.
|
| I don't understand the distinction you're trying to make
| between having an Intel NUC on my desk connected to a
| monitor and a keyboard, or having one mounted to the back
| of my television (or monitor placed in the room as if it
| were a television), and controlling it with my remote
| keyboard. They're both general-purpose computers, they
| both do exactly the same thing, the TV runs Debian Stable
| and my PC runs Debian Testing.
| DoingIsLearning wrote:
| Fair but the point is you are trying to solve the problem
| with the wrong tool.
|
| GP adapted the the form factor to his needs.
|
| The remote form factor was created for a long gone use case
| of 'zapping' through channels coming from an analog source.
|
| Home theater nowadays has no similarity with the interface
| needs of cable/satellite TV, so why would you be hung up on
| using the same remote control interface?
|
| Remote controls have been tortured into fitting smart TVs
| with ever more ridiculous tiny buttons and confusing silk
| labels the remote control concept needs to be retired
| anyway.
| ElCheapo wrote:
| >GP adapted the the form factor to his needs.
|
| My point is that drastic I/O adaptation almost always
| require UI/UX adaptations, which doesn't happen with
| these enthusiast projects.
|
| >Home theater nowadays has no similarity with the
| interface needs of cable/satellite TV, so why would you
| be hung up on using the same remote control interface?
|
| Because that's what people use. If we went by some "blank
| slate" argument then we could make a ton of things
| possible, but that's not what this problem is about.
| Additionally, even if you had a keyboard+touchpad combo,
| would you rather use your TV from your couch with GNOME
| or XFCE or would you prefer Kodi's interface?
| jstanley wrote:
| I use Gnome on my TV, with a Bluetooth keyboard. It works
| great. I don't see what advantage Kodi's interface has.
| selfhoster11 wrote:
| Kodi is theoretically a better fit for the 10-foot
| display use case. It also has a bunch of features built
| in for dealing with video libraries, their
| management/filtering and so on that you won't get with a
| generic interface like the Gnome or KDE file browser.
| pessimizer wrote:
| I use MATE. I'd like a better tv-tuner application,
| because that's a hole in FOSS, but I also can't stand the
| Kodi interface although I've have made many attempts to
| adopt it to my use case from back when it was XBMC. The
| Kodi interface is more annoying and difficult to navigate
| than a standard PC desktop with the font sizes bumped up
| used with remote keyboard/touchpad that is smaller than
| my remote.
| MikusR wrote:
| You didn't even list the two most popular platforms LG WebOS
| and Samsung Tizen.
| lukevp wrote:
| Reminds me of the OpenPandora, which I still have a first batch
| of! It was really cool to have at the time but I didn't end up
| using it all that much.
| unwind wrote:
| Are you me?
|
| Jeebz how much I waited for and longed for that machine (I have
| the wooden box, signed by EvilDragon [1] themselves), and then
| kind of forgot it in a wardrobe. It's weird, that tendency. :/
|
| Edit: Camelized EvilDragon above.
|
| [1]: https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/members/evildragon.1/
| CheeseWong wrote:
| So why not just install UnixOS on the mobile phone?
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