[HN Gopher] Integrating with Fastmail
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Integrating with Fastmail
        
       Author : ljoshua
       Score  : 541 points
       Date   : 2022-09-27 21:32 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.fastmail.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.fastmail.com)
        
       | cdnsteve wrote:
       | What scares me about Google is:
       | 
       | - the deep integration with accounts you accumulate over time,
       | one click sign-on is easy but with its tradeoffs
       | 
       | - the known and blatant indexing it does of your email content to
       | power their profiles of users for ads
       | 
       | - the fact it records nearly every transaction and vendor I've
       | used, is scary
       | 
       | - I recently sent a friend a one word subject with a link to a
       | tweet and it was red flagged as dangerous sender and content in
       | my friends Gmail, he sent me screenshot
       | 
       | - the fact Google is so deeply integrated to state now, in other
       | verticals like YouTube and this disinformation hunt against free
       | speech against anyone who doesn't agree with what you should see
       | or read
       | 
       | Time to switch folks, $50 a year to me is worth it.
        
         | jsnell wrote:
         | > - the known and blatant indexing it does of your email
         | content to power their profiles of users for ads
         | 
         | They have made very explicit statements about not using email
         | content to target ads. So it's neither "known" nor "blatant".
        
           | cdnsteve wrote:
           | This isn't actually true. Source examples but many more. -
           | https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/google-tracks-your-
           | purchase...
           | 
           | - https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/5tfd8n/google_knows
           | _...
           | 
           | -
        
             | themacguffinman wrote:
             | Google doesn't deny that it scans your email for
             | information, it denies that it uses that data for ad
             | targeting and profiling. Your links don't challenge that
             | claim.
        
             | jsnell wrote:
             | How does either of those example demonstrate email contents
             | being used for ad targeting? What I see is just a more
             | convenient UI for displaying what I've bought than
             | searching for the individual receipts in the email archive.
             | 
             | There's just no ambiguity in Google's statements about
             | email contents not being used for any kind of advertising
             | purposes.
        
         | Gareth321 wrote:
         | > the deep integration with accounts you accumulate over time,
         | one click sign-on is easy but with its tradeoffs
         | 
         | I was lucky in that the first time I encountered one-click
         | sign-on was in the early days when Facebook was aggressively
         | pushing it. There was no way in hell I would give Facebook the
         | discretion to allow me access to integrated services, so I
         | created a login for the service. That lesson has stuck with me
         | ever since and I'll never use these integrated logins. If you
         | lose access to your Google account (which more and more people
         | are experiencing for any and no reason at all), you also lose
         | access to any integrated services. That's crazy. I wish more
         | people would take that consideration seriously.
        
       | dvcrn wrote:
       | Shameless plug for my CLI for creating MaskedEmails that is using
       | these APIs (since beta actually) -
       | https://github.com/dvcrn/maskedemail-cli
       | 
       | If you're into domain/service-specific email addresses, give it a
       | go!
        
         | MiscIdeaMaker99 wrote:
         | Sweet, thank you!
        
         | notemaker wrote:
         | I just wished Bitwarden would integrate with this... I know
         | 1password has.
        
           | munkkeli wrote:
           | They just did! https://bitwarden.com/blog/use-bitwarden-to-
           | generate-email-a...
        
             | lcmatt wrote:
             | Perfect! Just noticed they need to update the Firefox
             | extension though as it's not supported just yet.
        
               | fastforious wrote:
               | The feature was added over two weeks ago, but the update
               | hasn't been pushed to Mozilla's repository yet,
               | apparently.
               | 
               | https://github.com/bitwarden/clients/releases/tag/browser
               | -v2...
        
       | crossroadsguy wrote:
       | An advance gentle warning to people moving to Fastmail: never use
       | the email address on their domain "fastmail.<tld>. Just don't.
       | 
       | Pretend it doesn't exist. It'll be difficult to move away from
       | Fastmail if you have to. Because they don't have any free tier
       | for that which is fine.
       | 
       | I regret using it on mailbox.org and I have used it at so many
       | places in last many years that moving away seems tedious and I
       | give up on it even before I start.
        
       | kbd wrote:
       | I've been meaning to switch to Fastmail from Google Apps forever,
       | I really need to get on that...
        
         | patleeman wrote:
         | I did it recently. It was pretty painless. Their import tool is
         | top notch.
        
           | azinman2 wrote:
           | +1 to their import tool. I was really surprised at how good
           | an experience that was. So simple and effective. And
           | idempotent - I had to restart it after re-enabling some of
           | the labels and no dups.
           | 
           | My only issue is the spam filtering isn't nearly as good. I
           | need to regularly check spam.
        
             | beefsack wrote:
             | On that note, I've noticed that the Gmail spam filter has
             | been less effective recently - I get spam coming through to
             | my inbox almost every day now. I've also had some
             | legitimate email going through to the spam box which has
             | very rarely happened with me on Gmail.
             | 
             | If there's one thing that will finally push me to jump to
             | something different it would be if spam filtering becomes
             | ineffective.
        
               | broodbucket wrote:
               | Gmail catches more spam than Fastmail does. I almost
               | never get actual spam in my Gmail inbox, though they
               | sometime mark non-spam as spam. Having actual spam turn
               | up in my Fastmail inbox roughly once a week is a little
               | annoying.
        
       | lepetitchef wrote:
       | Love the Fastmail UI. If you are not using any email client
       | software, please use Fastmail on the browser to enjoy all the
       | latest update in the UI.
       | 
       | The most recent feature is Fastmail calendar allows user to
       | change the color of events. You will love the web interface more.
        
       | kureikain wrote:
       | I love fastmail and its REST api but also at the same time I love
       | to use google stuff like google docs, calendar etc, google voice.
       | Technically I can use all gmail service without using a gmail
       | account but it's always less intuitive somehow and always
       | something break here and there when people invite or tag you in
       | drive or google docs.
       | 
       | So I ended up build an email forwarding service, it runs on my
       | own domain, forward email[1] back to my personal gmail. So I
       | still have full control at my own domain level, have the
       | flexibility that gmail give me, and have a REST api to access
       | email.
       | 
       | Having this access REST API[2] in hand, I have been thinking I
       | maybe able to scrape bank alert email to build out a a read-only
       | API for my own banking transaction.
       | 
       | ---
       | 
       | [1]: https://mailwip.com
       | 
       | [2]: https://mailwip.com/api/#introduction
        
       | aussiedude wrote:
       | Until they offer an office suite, cloud drive and directory that
       | supports SSO/SAML they'll stay a fringe email provider.
       | 
       | Why pay $5 to fastmail when Microsoft offers heaps more.
        
         | Karunamon wrote:
         | I actually trialed Office 365 when I decided to drop Gmail.
         | Their IMAP import was broken so I couldn't transfer my content
         | over, and the admin dashboard was actually throwing HTTP
         | errors. Customer support was functionally illiterate in English
         | and unable to comprehend the problem, let alone solve it.
         | Disastrous.
         | 
         | Email is so foundational to online identity, that I would
         | rather pay for the services of a smaller company that sees it
         | as their main business, rather than an also ran arm of a
         | massive big tech company who sees customer support as an
         | outsourceable cost center to be cut to the bone.
        
       | tanin wrote:
       | Long time customer of fastmail. Great support. I once forgot to
       | cancel sub, contacted them, and they refunded with no question.
       | Really built the trust.
       | 
       | Now I have my personal and side business on fastmail.
       | 
       | UX is simple, service is reliable. Keep up the good work.
        
       | Collier wrote:
        
       | anderspitman wrote:
       | The real integration services like Fastmail need is for DNS. It's
       | crazy that I need to understand DNS records and copy/paste them
       | in order to have _someone else_ host email on my behalf. When I
       | sign up for Fastmail, there should be a quick OAuth flow out to
       | my domain registrar for me to delegate a [sub]domain for Fastmail
       | to control, which returns a token they can use to set all the A,
       | AAAA, CNAME, SPF, DKIM, etc up for me. There is a protocol[0] for
       | such a thing, but adoption has been slow, and I found it a bad
       | fit for open source projects.
       | 
       | [0]: https://www.domainconnect.org/
        
         | aeden wrote:
         | Yes, yes, yes! We've wanted to build a connector for them for a
         | while now, but so far, there's no API to pull the appropriate
         | DNS records to automate setup of DKIM.
        
           | anderspitman wrote:
           | IMO this is an API that should be implemented on your end
           | (dnsimple), not theirs. There are a relatively small number
           | of DNS providers which all provide essentially the same
           | interface (CRUD operations on records), but there are a huge
           | number of services that need to set up DNS records, including
           | open source projects self-hosted by many individuals. It's
           | not realistic for DNS providers to implement integration with
           | every possible service, but the opposite is totally doable.
           | 
           | If dnsimple implemented something like DomainConnect,
           | Fastmail could easily integrate. And it's a win-win because
           | it sends traffic your way.
           | 
           | As I said, I found[0] DomainConnect to not be a good fit for
           | open source projects in its current form. I've done some work
           | on a new protocol which you can learn more about here[1].
           | Would be interested to hear your thoughts from the
           | perspective of a DNS provider.
           | 
           | [0]: https://github.com/Domain-Connect/spec/issues/64
           | 
           | [1]: https://takingnames.io/blog/introducing-takingnames-io
        
       | 4pkjai wrote:
       | Very cool, I was just thinking I wanted an email API to check my
       | company's customer support inboxes to see if a user has been
       | contacted or not.
        
       | Haemm0r wrote:
       | Is there a service like fastmail with pw-encrypted inbox like
       | posteo.de (not pgp based like mailbox.org), bulk mail
       | import/export, custom domain and imap support (as in: no special
       | app required unlike protonmail/tutanota)?
       | 
       | Thx.
        
         | Tryk wrote:
         | Protonmail has imap support with their Bridge application
         | (https://proton.me/mail/bridge)
        
       | password4321 wrote:
       | Fastmail [updated: allowed] customers to spoof email as From:
       | other customers, unless you manage your custom domain's DNS DMARC
       | p=reject. This is a social engineer's dream come true!
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18996200#18997054 (2019)
       | 
       | https://fastmail.blog/advanced/spf-dkim-dmarc (2016)
        
         | nmjenkins wrote:
         | This has not been true for some time. You must verify you can
         | receive email at an address before we allow you to send with it
         | from Fastmail.
        
           | password4321 wrote:
           | Glad to hear this! It seems some content should be updated
           | then?
           | 
           | https://www.fastmail.com/about/bugbounty
           | 
           | > _We are quite aware that users can set arbitrary From
           | addresses on emails, that our SPF records allow arbitrary
           | hosts to send email as our domains, and that our DMARC policy
           | is not enforcing passes. These policy decisions are by
           | design, and we track the actual sender in a separate header._
           | 
           | https://www.fastmail.help/hc/en-us/articles/1500000280461
           | (not as clear here)
           | 
           | > _Fastmail domains have a DMARC policy of none_
        
       | steve_adams_86 wrote:
       | Apart from Fastmail being amazing for email, they've been a great
       | source of customer service to me in several ways. I like to point
       | it out in case people are on the fence and considering a switch.
       | My most appreciated instance was this:
       | 
       | Many years ago I was broke and going through rough financial
       | strains. My yearly contract with Fastmail was up and I asked for
       | a grace period. They did it, no questions asked, for 2 months.
       | 
       | It wasn't a thing. When I renewed my contract we settled up and
       | it was all good. It's been quite a while now and I'm still glad
       | to support them.
        
         | mk89 wrote:
         | It's always nice when there is a human in the loop.
         | 
         | Thanks for sharing!
        
       | system16 wrote:
       | I made the switch to Fastmail from Gmail (which I used since it
       | launched) about three years ago and haven't looked back. What a
       | fantastic service at a reasonable price. Their mobile app is also
       | great.
       | 
       | About this API in particular, who is it targeting or what type of
       | apps are expected to come out of this? Email clients that
       | leverage Fastmail-specific features?
        
         | jjnoakes wrote:
         | The android app doesn't always notify me of new email - and if
         | it doesn't notify me for one email, it won't notify me again
         | until I get another email (which might be a day or two apart).
         | That's my only complaint. I have a support ticket open for it;
         | I'm hoping they can figure out what is going on.
        
         | encryptluks2 wrote:
         | I agree the service is fantastic but their pricing is still
         | pretty expensive compared to some of their competitors
        
           | ok_dad wrote:
           | For me as an American, $5 a month (or less with longer terms)
           | is pretty damn good! Who has cheaper prices that actually
           | competes on features, performance, reliability, goodwill,
           | etc.?
        
         | jmcphers wrote:
         | Have to disagree about the mobile app, while it looks nice and
         | is full-featured and responsive, it is a glorified webview and
         | is totally useless offline -- you can't search emails or even
         | view them without an active mobile data connection.
        
           | kilroy123 wrote:
           | This is my biggest gripe! I travel a lot and often need
           | offline mode.
           | 
           | I would also love to be able to use widgets on iOS for the
           | calendar.
           | 
           | So many things could be improved with the mobile app.
        
           | wbercx wrote:
           | This is the one thing I wish I checked more thoroughly before
           | I moved 5 domains from Gmail to Fastmail.
        
             | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
             | Eh, just use another client with IMAP (or maybe JMAP; I
             | haven't dug in enough).
        
         | berkut wrote:
         | Yeah, while I like their service in general having (mostly)
         | switched in 2018, their mobile app really isn't that great in
         | my experience due to the lack of offline mode, and every so
         | often it seems to forget my login (maybe the session expires,
         | but I never remember that happening with GMail app).
        
       | Hardwired8976 wrote:
       | Question for people with fastmail and a .net custom domain: Do
       | you usually get blocked sometimes? I wanted to send an email to
       | my therapist and one email to my insurance but both had blocked
       | me. A mailbox.org address worked just fine. Is it because of the
       | domain or because of the .net ending?
        
         | Avamander wrote:
         | I'd propose a third and a fourth reason - your domain's volume
         | is too small and its security setup isn't top-notch.
        
       | nonbirithm wrote:
       | I am generally a happy user of Fastmail, but there are a few
       | improvements I'd like:
       | 
       | 1. The "report spam" button doesn't also delete the message on
       | the web version. You have to select "report phishing" instead to
       | do both at once.
       | 
       | 2. The UI for updating mail filter rules was buried under several
       | layers of options last time I tried using it, and I don't think
       | there was an easy way to update a filter and re-apply it to
       | existing messages without going through several menus.
       | 
       | 3. The UI on Android is sluggish when opening messages at times.
       | 
       | I still prefer Fastmail over Gmail, however. A minimal version of
       | the UI like old Gmail's HTML-only view would be nice.
        
         | Semaphor wrote:
         | Report spam moves it to the junk mail folder, where it gets
         | removed after 60 days. Deleting it instead would be surprising
         | behavior.
        
       | gunther2 wrote:
       | Fastmail is great. I have used them for years. My only issue with
       | them is their policy on recycling usernames
       | https://www.fastmail.help/hc/en-us/articles/1500000277342-Ca....
       | Gmail and Proton do not allow for username recycling, for
       | example. I hope Fastmail changes their policy for folks who use
       | an @fastmail.com username.
        
       | lordofgibbons wrote:
       | I'd love to switch over to Fastmail from Gmail with my custom
       | domain email, but I face two hurdles before being able to move
       | over:
       | 
       | 1) Going from $0 to $50/year is such a tough pill to swallow ..
       | 
       | 2) I have a ton of documents in Google docs. Will those continue
       | to work, and if not, what's the alternative? Google is terrible
       | for privacy, but at least my sensitive documents aren't going to
       | get stolen. I'm not sure I'll trust a startup to my personal
       | docs. Self-hosting is such a massive pain, so not something I
       | want to do.
       | 
       | Would love advice on transitioning away from the big G.
        
         | synicalx wrote:
         | On your second point - do you need to transition documents? If
         | it's free you may as well just keep them with Google.
        
         | outworlder wrote:
         | > I'm not sure I'll trust a startup
         | 
         | Is Fastmail considered a startup? They've been there for a
         | while.
        
           | lordofgibbons wrote:
           | No, they seem trustworthy. I meant I don't trust a startup to
           | host my documents (Google drive alternative) because Fastmail
           | doesn't have a google docs alternative as far as I'm aware.
        
         | bigyikes wrote:
         | For (1): consider that your entire digital life is bound to
         | your email address. In a sense, Google owns you. $50/yr is a
         | small price to pay for truly owning your digital life. That's
         | what I tell myself, anyway.
         | 
         | (I recently renewed my Fastmail subscription for an additional
         | two years)
        
           | cynix wrote:
           | > $50/yr is a small price to pay for truly owning your
           | digital life.
           | 
           | For some people it's not just $50. If their whole family is
           | on GSuite Legacy, for example, migrating away will be 4-5
           | times that, or more.
           | 
           | I wish Fastmail offered storaged-based pricing without a hard
           | limit on the number of accounts.
        
           | devoutsalsa wrote:
           | I left Gmail for that exact reason. I just didn't want to
           | wake up one day to find my digital life had been locked out
           | because Google Photos has thought my picture of a funny tree
           | was somehow an object that violates their terms of service.
           | Fastmail has been great, and I also prepaid for multiple
           | years. No complaints.
        
         | georgyo wrote:
         | > ... custom domain ... > 1) Going from $0 to $50/year is such
         | a tough pill to swallow.
         | 
         | Didn't google already solve this problem for you? They removed
         | the free tier for custom domains in ~GApps~ Google Workspaces.
         | 
         | At least for me, the switch was a forcing function to move off.
        
           | tallanvor wrote:
           | They backtracked on that for personal/family use.
        
           | Arnavion wrote:
           | >Didn't google already solve this problem for you? They
           | removed the free tier for custom domains in ~GApps~ Google
           | Workspaces.
           | 
           | FWIW, I have a custom domain with GMail for free. All
           | incoming email to *@thedomain land in my GMail inbox, though
           | replying is more of a faff since I have to individually add
           | each one with its own app password pointing to GMail's own
           | SMTP server.
           | 
           | https://support.google.com/domains/answer/6328630?hl=en (the
           | "Email forwarding" option) +
           | https://support.google.com/domains/answer/9437157?hl=en .
           | People like lordofgibbons might have such a setup.
        
         | troydavis wrote:
         | > 1) Going from $0 to $50/year is such a tough pill to swallow
         | ..
         | 
         | If you're in a first-world country and knowledgeable enough to
         | be reading HN: how can that be? It's one coffee a month. If
         | needed, think of it as charity to support an indie developer.
         | 
         | #2 is not an issue. Your Google account and associated files
         | and services continue to work. Email moves, nothing else.
        
       | unity1001 wrote:
       | Deliverability is the bigger concern in such cases. Especially
       | for business emails. Gmail seems to have the best deliverability
       | among all that is available.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | nopenopenopeno wrote:
       | Hopefully they can use this to add a long-desired 'scheduled
       | send' feature to fastmail web and apps.
        
         | isthisthingon99 wrote:
         | Scheduled send exists, I use it regularly (on web).
        
           | nopenopenopeno wrote:
           | Wow. Good to hear. In that case, I should probably go back to
           | using it.
        
         | krallja wrote:
         | Next to the Send button there is a little dropdown that
         | contains scheduled send.
        
       | vivan wrote:
       | I cannot recommend fastmail to anyone for the simple reason that
       | if your account expires and gets deleted, anyone can create an
       | account with the _same_ email address and take over your
       | identity. This seems like a massive security flaw.
        
         | evgen wrote:
         | You should always own the domain your email is sent to. If this
         | is the case then the solution to this problem is trivial with
         | DKIM/SPF, if this is not the case then it does not matter what
         | third-party provider you are using because this can always
         | happen. Your complaint has nothing to do with fastmail.
        
           | vivan wrote:
           | Other email providers don't allow recycling of account names
           | - once they're gone, they're gone.
           | 
           | That said, I do agree that using a domain you own is better
           | practice. However, I have been burned there before - I used a
           | .eu domain for pretty much all of my email sign-ups for over
           | a decade, then had the domain yanked away because of Brexit.
           | Yes, my fault for not realising that this would happen (I lay
           | some of the blame with my domain provider for not mentioning
           | it to me at all).
        
             | devilkin wrote:
             | I think you are woefully mistaken here, plenty of mail
             | providers allow you to scrap your account and get a new one
             | with the same mail address.
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | > You should always own the domain your email is sent to.
           | 
           | Can you _own_ a domain name? I was under the impression that
           | it can still expire, which makes this solution about just as
           | bad.
        
             | nicky0 wrote:
             | Well it can expire if you let it expire. There is nothing
             | that can absolutely guarantee you keep you email address,
             | but owning a domain name (say with a 10 year prepayment) is
             | damned close.
        
         | mdiesel wrote:
         | But on the flip side, good luck making any kind of sensible
         | Gmail account for example, which means either fastmail needs
         | multiple domains or their service will see new customers
         | reducing over the years as people can't get sensible email
         | addresses.
         | 
         | The same thing is true of phone numbers, but it's more obvious
         | that there's a finite number of... numbers... So they need to
         | be reused eventually.
        
           | nicky0 wrote:
           | Fastmail does indeed use multiple domains. However it's much
           | better to use your own domain with fastmail to truly own your
           | email address.
        
       | rashidae wrote:
       | Why is this better than sendgrid, a part from pricing?
        
         | Vvector wrote:
         | I don't see it as a replacement for sendgrid.
         | 
         | I believe the API is more for the management of a FastMail
         | mailbox. For example, this might allow IFTTT to monitor for
         | emails and take an action.
        
         | outworlder wrote:
         | This has nothing to do with sendgrid.
        
       | OJFord wrote:
       | The best thing Fastmail could do (IMO obviously) for JMAP
       | adoption is to open up their own clients to other servers.
       | 
       | (i.e. if I'm developing a JMAP server, let me use the Fastmail
       | app to test. If Protonmail wants to focus on server & security,
       | let them recommend 'a JMAP client such as Fastmail' to their
       | customers.)
       | 
       | Unfortunately though I tweeted (something snappier to that effect
       | towards) the CTO a while ago; it's 'not on the cards' was the
       | phrasing as I recall.
       | 
       | (I'm a former happy customer - I was doing something a bit weird
       | receiving via SES, but no reason to think it wouldn't work, and
       | indeed it did work for years as a paying customer until it broke
       | overnight. Response was no sorry deliberate configuration change.
       | I raced (no access to email!) to get something workable without
       | Fastmail before my renewal that weekend; suddenly it started
       | working again, no further contact from support, but by then I'd
       | got my own solution almost working which I'd always intended on
       | anyway. The JMAP part's still early WIP though, so I really would
       | like to be able to use their client app as a solid reference.)
        
         | core-utility wrote:
         | I've been looking for an alternative to Spark (Readdle) for iOS
         | and MacOS for years, and have yet to find anything that even
         | comes close. I'm not a huge fan of a lot of things Spark does
         | and it's missing some nice features, but the unified look and
         | feel across both platforms is fantastic.
        
         | LeoPanthera wrote:
         | At least for iOS, Mailtemi is a great JMAP client:
         | https://mailtemi.com
         | 
         | Other JMAP clients: https://jmap.io/software.html
        
           | Mailtemi wrote:
           | Glad you like it. The plan is to double down on JMAP support.
           | Push notifications, contacts, masked emails, macOS, etc.
        
             | 369548684892826 wrote:
             | mailtemi looks like it's the only native JMAP app for iOS,
             | which is great, even the fastmail app isn't native. It's a
             | free app but isn't open source either. Is this a hobby
             | project, or what's the long term plan for mailtemi?
        
               | Mailtemi wrote:
               | It's not a hobby project. The app will remain free as it
               | is now. But some extra features like push notification
               | will require subscription (probably a few $ a year).
        
           | yosito wrote:
           | Mail temi looks promising, but it's been around for a long
           | time and only has two reviews, and no reputation. It's also
           | not open source. How can I know that the app is trustworthy?
        
             | Mailtemi wrote:
             | Honestly not sure how to answer this. Mailtemi is just like
             | any other iOS email app. Actually it doesn't include even
             | crash logging, just avoid sending anything to 3th party
             | service. Just curious , is there any iOS open source email
             | app? Proton-mail is not really an email client ,it's more
             | like a viewer for their service.
        
               | AnonC wrote:
               | I have a related question. What is the business model for
               | mailtemi? Since it looks like a free app with no
               | subscriptions or in-app purchases, how well is it going
               | to be supported in the future? If it's always going to be
               | free, then why not open source it?
               | 
               | I'm not saying that paid apps always receive great
               | support at all times, but it's about incentives.
               | 
               | The questions about business model should be answered on
               | your website in an FAQ page or on the homepage.
        
               | Mailtemi wrote:
               | Yes , I guess I need to update the site to include this
               | info , as this question emerges too often. Some extra
               | features like push notification will require subscription
               | (probably a few $ a year). Right now it works (only in a
               | dev environment) with MSGraph and Gmail. Just waiting for
               | JMAP push notifications to be enabled by Fastmail , to
               | release support for the tree protocols.
        
               | drdaeman wrote:
               | Would that require giving up the access credentials to
               | app-supporting servers or there's a way to avoid this and
               | make two servers meet "in the middle" with client
               | orchestrating the initial setup (at least with JMAP)?
               | 
               | I self-host and don't like how way too many client apps
               | deal with credentials in the name of convenience, many
               | without even announcing that they do send them somewhere
               | outside the device. I don't currently have JMAP but I'm
               | interested in replacing IMAPv4 as soon as something
               | better is ready aka has all the features I use and mobile
               | and desktop clients (I don't really care about the
               | webapps).
        
               | Mailtemi wrote:
               | The only credentials which will flow is OAuth/API token.
               | Mailtemi (future)server would not store it, only
               | ephemeral (http + cert check) connection to advice for
               | push notification.JMAP and MSGraph protocols are fine by
               | design. Gmail needs a bit of tweaking to hash email
               | addresses , because in their API the key is email. There
               | are edge cases like non ascii email addresses.
               | 
               | For IMAP there is no push protocol without a password
               | knowledge. No plan/wish to deal/know/store it. But still
               | I think of small open source AWS golang/nodejs
               | code(+markeplace bridge). Just the password possession
               | should be only of the owner.
        
       | eterevsky wrote:
       | From time to time I'm thinking about switching to Fastmail. I
       | just had a look at Fastmail vs Gmail page
       | (https://www.fastmail.com/gmail-alternative/), and I find some of
       | the comparisons inaccurate, and others just plain funny:
       | 
       | "No creepy typing predictions" - Fastmail just advertises a
       | missing feature as an advantage
       | 
       | "Use your own domain (you@yourname)" - marked as missing on
       | Gmail. On Fastmail you're paying $5/month to have your own
       | account, while in Gmail it's $6 or free if you're grandfathered
       | in with GSuite Legacy.
       | 
       | "No ads" - ads are also missing in paid Gmails accounts
       | 
       | "Notification settings that respect your attention" - Google
       | makes a big deal of detecting the importance of a particular
       | email threads. I doubt Fastmail is better at this than Gmail.
       | 
       | Also Fastmail claims better privacy, but I'm not sure what it is
       | based on.
        
         | stevewatson301 wrote:
         | Further, at a technical level, a Markov chain can hardly be
         | described as "creepy". Sadly, a lot of folks are not impervious
         | to marketing snake-oil, such as the one you pointed above.
        
           | californical wrote:
           | We'll, it's creepy because of where the data comes from (in
           | gmail). It reads common patterns in email, then uses that to
           | make predictions.
           | 
           | The predictions aren't creepy, but using my emails in
           | "anonymized" training data is creepy.
           | 
           | Note: I am a (very happy) Fastmail user, and I do not use
           | Google at all anymore
        
             | eterevsky wrote:
             | Google certainly doesn't use emails as training data.
             | Source: I work for Google and know that there are strict
             | policies regarding what can and can't be used as training
             | data.
        
               | blowski wrote:
               | I think your original should be clear that you work for
               | Google. It may certainly affect people's judgement of
               | your comment.
        
               | eterevsky wrote:
               | My top comment just points out inaccurate comparisons.
               | Also, as you can notice I'm not hiding that I work for
               | Google, though I do consider myself just a customer in
               | this situation.
        
         | blowski wrote:
         | Better privacy - I imagine it's based on not allowing the
         | world's largest advertising company to sell their knowledge of
         | everything you do.
        
           | eterevsky wrote:
           | Google doesn't use email contents for ad targetting:
           | 
           | "We don't show you personalized ads based on your content
           | from Drive, Gmail, or Photos."
           | (https://policies.google.com/privacy)
        
             | blowski wrote:
             | You know what data Fastmail sells about me to advertisers?
             | Nothing.
             | 
             | I have no idea what Google is collecting or selling, beyond
             | legalistically phrased ts and cs.
             | 
             | Working for Google, I wonder if you have a conflict of
             | interest in defending them so much.
        
               | eterevsky wrote:
               | > You know what data Fastmail sells about me to
               | advertisers? Nothing.
               | 
               | Why do you think so? Specifically what are the reasons
               | that you think this about Fastmail that do not apply to
               | Gmail?
               | 
               | > Working for Google, I wonder if you have a conflict of
               | interest in defending them so much.
               | 
               | I mean, technically I probably shouldn't be writing
               | anything about Google products. But my area of work is so
               | far from Gmail, that I only interact with it as a
               | customer.
               | 
               | I don't know whether it will convince you that I'm not
               | very biased about Gmail, but I do want to point out that
               | I find at least one argument in favor of Fastmail pretty
               | convincing and it's human support. Google has a pretty
               | abysmal track record of handling accounts that they think
               | are suspicious and if ever I change company I don't want
               | to be in a position where my account is blocked without
               | any recourse.
        
               | Semaphor wrote:
               | > Specifically what are the reasons that you think this
               | about Fastmail that do not apply to Gmail?
               | 
               | Not OP, but one of them is an email company, one is an
               | advertising company.
        
               | eterevsky wrote:
               | Google has a number of completely unrelated businesses.
               | The fact that one of them has to do with advertising
               | doesn't mean it would monetize other businesses through
               | advertising.
               | 
               | Conversely here's a reason why I think Google is _less_
               | likely to invade Gmail users' privacy: It's already one
               | of the most scrutinized companies in the world. If it
               | were doing something shady with emails, it would likely
               | to be picked up. Furthermore, it's a big company. More
               | employees would know about that and it's more likely that
               | someone would whistle-blow.
        
               | pwpw wrote:
               | > Google has a number of completely unrelated businesses.
               | The fact that one of them has to do with advertising
               | doesn't mean it would monetize other businesses through
               | advertising.
               | 
               | Correct, but 80.78% of Alphabet's revenues were from
               | advertising related income last year. See Note 2 to their
               | financial statements[0]. Alphabet is through-and-through
               | an advertising company at its core. It's a fair
               | assumption that their other ventures are potentially used
               | to generate more advertising revenue in one way or
               | another.
               | 
               | Also as a former auditor, I'm glad we've disclosed your
               | conflict of interest working for the company.
               | Unfortunately that means others cannot take you _as_
               | seriously as you'd like.
               | 
               | [0]Alphabet Inc. - Form 10-Q (2021): https://www.sec.gov/
               | Archives/edgar/data/1652044/000165204421...
        
             | Swenrekcah wrote:
             | That does not mean they don't train all sorts of models on
             | the data, or harvest it to fill out their profiles of
             | users, or any number of other things Google exists to do
             | that are user-hostile.
        
         | beshrkayali wrote:
         | I think you might be preaching to the wrong crowd. Fastmail
         | users (which I am one of) are mainly interested in Fastmail
         | because email (and co) is the only thing they do.
         | 
         | > "No creepy typing predictions" - Fastmail just advertises a
         | missing feature as an advantage
         | 
         | To the privacy conscious, that's a feature. I and other users
         | pay them enough not to have to harvest, collect, train ml
         | models on, or use our data or metadata in any way, for
         | predications or other pseudo-features.
        
           | eterevsky wrote:
           | Why do you think Google does it in Gmail? I'm 100% sure it
           | doesn't train any ML models on the user emails.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | beshrkayali wrote:
             | How are you a 100% sure?
        
             | Karupan wrote:
             | By default, custom suggestions are turned on when using
             | smart compose [0] and:
             | 
             | > Smart Compose personalized suggestions are tailored to
             | the way you normally write, to maintain your writing style.
             | 
             | [0] https://support.google.com/mail/answer/9116836
        
         | jvolkman wrote:
         | > in Gmail it's $6 or free if you're grandfathered in with
         | GSuite Legacy.
         | 
         | You can also just forward another email address to your free
         | @gmail.com address and, after a quick verification process,
         | send emails as that alias. Google Domains lets you forward
         | email for no extra cost outside of the domain registration fee.
        
           | Arcuru wrote:
           | Recipients of mails you send through that system always see
           | it as something like "sent by example@gmail.com on behalf of
           | example@customdomain.com".
           | 
           | It's not a big deal for many use cases, but it's not the same
           | thing as having email on the domain.
        
       | jokoon wrote:
       | All I want is a free email, with 500mb of storage, and the
       | ability to sort mails by domains.
       | 
       | I don't need storage space to store attachments files.
       | 
       | The only thing that matters to me in email is spam detection and
       | the ability to sort and delete as much mail as possible.
        
         | rcMgD2BwE72F wrote:
         | >All I want is a free email
         | 
         | And who's your patron?
        
         | joshuawithers wrote:
         | I want to lose 40kg, we can all dream
        
       | e63f67dd-065b wrote:
       | Is JMAP actually used anywhere outside of fastmail? As far as I
       | can tell everything is IMAP, and JMAP is not even on the radar.
        
         | broodbucket wrote:
         | Not yet, but that's how these things work. Gotta do a lot of
         | showing off yourself before anyone else starts to care.
         | Standards are hard to displace, at least with email there's the
         | attractive motivation that everything else is ancient and
         | awful. We're probably at least 5-10 years away from JMAP having
         | some proliferation, if everything goes well.
        
         | ocdtrekkie wrote:
         | Essentially the core problem is Gmail is most of the market,
         | and they have a vested interest in keeping people interacting
         | with their proprietary APIs (lock in) rather than switching to
         | an open standard that supports labels, snooze, etc. Startups
         | literally build custom clients entirely around the Gmail API,
         | which means more data to Google.
         | 
         | And if Gmail doesn't support JMAP, why would anyone else bother
         | adding it to their app?
         | 
         | Monopolies remain the primary blocker on innovation and until
         | we get aggressive about forcing them to use open standards and
         | interoperability, we are going to stay stuck in situations like
         | this one.
        
           | awinter-py wrote:
           | I think fastmail is trying for an 'everyone supports this
           | standard except for you' strategy
           | 
           | could work, I feel like the bigger question is 'will email
           | still be the standard' in 5 years -- it has iffy security,
           | it's complex, nobody can self host it, it doesn't integrate
           | well with other applications (i.e. 'push messaging' features)
        
             | broodbucket wrote:
             | If we haven't gotten rid of asking users for postal
             | addresses when there is no chance they will ever be used,
             | we are absolutely never getting rid of email. It's
             | decentralised, there's a paper trail that doesn't disappear
             | when a host goes down or gets compromised, and it's still a
             | competent method of asynchronous communication. Plus, the
             | whole world is never going to agree on the same new thing
             | anyway.
        
               | awinter-py wrote:
               | yeah I'm not certain you're wrong
               | 
               |  _but_ I think your point about postal addresses is
               | important
               | 
               | part of the reason we still require snail mail for legal
               | process is dumb legacy stuff, but the other part is that
               | email isn't a good replacement
        
         | nicoburns wrote:
         | Not that widely I don't think, but there was a post about an
         | open source JMAP implementation on HN a few days ago,
        
         | Gigachad wrote:
         | Everything is not IMAP. Everything is proprietary JSON APIs.
         | Gmail, Outlook, etc are not using IMAP because IMAP is unusable
         | these days. Fastmail is essentially the same thing but with an
         | effort to share the work.
        
           | vladharbuz wrote:
           | Could you say a few more words about why IMAP is unusable
           | these days? Thank you Gigachad!
        
             | Gigachad wrote:
             | There was a post I read a while ago detailing it but I
             | forgot where. The gist of it is that it's a custom protocol
             | and format that goes back decades. These days clients try
             | to implement lots of features client side that were not
             | imagined back when the protocol was created so it involves
             | massively inefficient actions.
             | 
             | I forget the exact action described but I believe it was
             | renaming a folder requires downloading every email in the
             | folder and then uploading them all in individual requests
             | which takes minutes. Stuff like this plague the protocol
             | and hold back email clients. Rather than spending dev time
             | building the best client, they waste it wrestling a
             | protocol that has long outlived its usefulness.
        
             | Mailtemi wrote:
             | JMAP is sane, performant and easy to implement. To check
             | for new email and resync email state with IMAP should make
             | separate call for each folder. Even if the app tries to
             | sync multiple folders simultaneously, the server often has
             | a limit of max 2 connection. With JMAP this can be done in
             | a single call. Microsoft's MSGraph API is similar but
             | riddled with inner HTTP (429) errors in batch calls. This
             | needs extra logic to handle all cases.
        
             | Avamander wrote:
             | IMAP IDLE only allows you to monitor a single folder and
             | it's bad for anything battery-powered - yet people want
             | proper notifications about the mail they receive. Nobody
             | implements IMAP NOTIFY which would fix this part for at
             | least desktop PC's. There's also the silly notion that a
             | single letter has to exist in a single folder (may only
             | have a single label). Plus all the concurrency issues with
             | multiple clients accessing the same mailbox.
        
         | core-utility wrote:
         | Technically yes, but functionally no.
         | https://jmap.io/software.html
        
       | outworlder wrote:
       | I've been on Fastmail for many years. I didn't manage to _quite_
       | get rid of my gmail address, but it's close. I don't have to open
       | gmail at all - and any mail that still makes it that way is
       | forwarded to Fastmail.
       | 
       | I can use my own domain too. It's pretty great. The web interface
       | is simple but it has improved immensely since I've started to use
       | it.
       | 
       | I guess this is the missing piece. One thing I miss from gmail is
       | its ability to automatically sort incoming email into categories,
       | even if you don't have filters. Fastmail has all the classic
       | filters, but they do not apply to existing emails, which is a
       | major hassle. I've been using Sanebox to keep it less insane, but
       | I don't like giving access to third parties.
       | 
       | I guess I'll play with this thing and write something to organize
       | my inbox.
        
         | everybodyknows wrote:
         | ... filters, but they do not apply to existing emails, which is
         | a major hassle.
         | 
         | I filed a bug report over just that, using their web form, a
         | few months ago. No news since.
        
           | sitzkrieg wrote:
           | thats my only gripe too, however setting one up in the search
           | ui appears to let you run it on existing mail as a workaround
        
           | nirvdrum wrote:
           | You can apply the new-style filters against existing emails
           | in the "preview" window. That won't help if you're heavily
           | using custom Sieve scripts, but it does handle a lot of
           | common scenarios for me.
        
         | BatteryMountain wrote:
         | For many of us, we aren't trying to get rid of the gmail
         | account (as you would still need it for the play store on
         | android devices and so on), it is to break the dependency on
         | google in the event that they nuke the account and being unable
         | to recover from it. Example: I use my gmail account for my
         | bank, municipality and even our tax authority. If am not able
         | to access my email address (and mobile number for that matter),
         | it could potentially have harmful consequences when interacting
         | with those entities. The idea is to be able to put the gmail on
         | the back-burner and only use it when needed, basically to
         | become immune to the whims of google and their ban hammers.
        
           | Flimm wrote:
           | You can sign up for a Google account without signing up for a
           | Gmail account.
        
         | encryptluks2 wrote:
         | $9/mo for 100GB doesn't really compete with the $10/mo 2TB
         | Google plan or the one I have now for $12 and get unlimited
         | storat
        
           | LVB wrote:
           | 100GB is... a lot of email.
        
             | Lio wrote:
             | Yep, at some point it doesn't matter how much storage
             | Google give you or at least that's the case for the
             | majority.
             | 
             | If Google increased their limits to 100TB it wouldn't
             | really make them more attractive to my small business
             | because I can already live within 100Gb without with
             | virtually no administrative burden.
             | 
             | 2TB of mail storage represents an extra security risk for
             | us and the chance to accumulate more un-controlled data.
             | 
             | It's much better to get that out of the email server and
             | into something secure and time managed so that it can be
             | deleted when not needed.
        
               | encryptluks2 wrote:
               | >2TB of mail storage represents an extra security risk
               | for us and the chance to accumulate more un-controlled
               | data.
               | 
               | You're suggesting 2TB is harder to manage with real
               | enterprise management features and MDM functionality vs a
               | provider who allows users to download a full copy of
               | business emails to their personal devices? I like
               | FastMail features, but if un-controllable data was the
               | real concern then Google Workspace would be my go-to not
               | FastMail.
        
               | Lio wrote:
               | No, I'm not suggesting that 2TB is harder to manage than
               | 200GB ( _even though it clearly is because there 's more
               | in it to keep tabs on_).
               | 
               | What I'm saying is that we have a policy to not use email
               | as long term storage because it's considered bad
               | practice. As such we don't gain much from Google offering
               | more storage space because we wouldn't use it anyway.
               | 
               | We're a only a small business and I know that's different
               | once you grow beyond a team you can fit in one room.
        
           | cft wrote:
           | Except hopefully they won't deplatform and take your emails
           | unlike Google, if their AI doesn't like your email content
        
             | deadbunny wrote:
             | Go on give us just one example of Google killing someone's
             | account due to email content.
        
               | jasonpeacock wrote:
               | https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/aug/22/google
               | -cs...
        
               | reificator wrote:
               | You got 'em. Google rarely reveals why they killed
               | someone's account.
               | 
               | So we can't prove it was due to email content. For all we
               | know it could just be a dude named Richard who throws
               | darts at a board full of usernames all day.
        
               | Gigachad wrote:
               | It doesn't have to be limited to email. They will kill
               | your whole account for a perceived violation on any
               | service. There was a story recently where a father had
               | his account terminated because he took a photo of his son
               | to send to the doctor which auto uploaded to google
               | photos and was flagged by the AI and reported to the
               | police. The police check it and confirm its a false alarm
               | but Google refuses to unban the account meaning the guy
               | lost access to his email and phone number.
        
               | emeril wrote:
               | Same exact thing happened to me but thankfully it was a
               | throwaway account (on my domain in fact) since I knew
               | there was risk - thankfully they didn't cancel the whole
               | domain for it...
               | 
               | I've been using gmail for my domain (free gsuite legacy)
               | for 10+ years though I'm careful to not do anything that
               | could be misinterpreted on the service particularly
               | through google photos or youtube
               | 
               | I actually used fastmail for 10 years prior to gmail but
               | abandoned it in 2010 or so because imap/calendaring/etc.
               | wouldn't meaningfully sync with my iphone but gmail had
               | full free activesync (which I still miss a bit...)
               | 
               | I still keep a basic inexpensive legacy fastmail account
               | just for some sieve scripts and cleaner smtp than gmail
               | offers...
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | jjulius wrote:
               | This comment _has_ to be missing a  "/s".
        
               | nirvdrum wrote:
               | RSD Academy has been all sorts of messed up after Google
               | flagged the guy's photos. He had the rsdacademy.net
               | domain hosted with Google and lost access to that. He
               | lost access to the YouTube account that handled all of
               | the academy videos. He lost docs for his draft textbook.
               | Granted, he probably should have not tied everything to a
               | personal account. On the other hand, Google shouldn't be
               | able to lock everything.
        
       | ok_dad wrote:
       | It's a good first step! I hope to someday see the ability to use
       | an API to edit Fastmail DNS entries, add/remove/modify user
       | accounts, access the calendar and notes, etc.
        
       | math-dev wrote:
       | Reading some of these comments, I wonder how much astroturfing
       | goes on HN these days
        
         | mongrol-smush wrote:
         | I understand why you might be sceptical but your comment has
         | motivated me to decloak and respond. Fastmail really do provide
         | an excellent product. Like many of the other commentators I
         | moved over to them from Gmail and am very glad I did so.
         | Sometimes things truly are as good as they seem.
        
           | math-dev wrote:
           | Yes it's good to maintain a healthy dose of skepticism and I
           | could (more than likely) be equally wrong, but I hope my
           | comment encouraged others not to take comments online at face
           | value always.
           | 
           | For what it's worth, I signed up to fast mail yesterday,
           | onboarding vs my cloudflare managed domain was a breeze and
           | so far no issues (it's email hosting (and their iOS app isn't
           | great), so there's not much to get excited about on a day to
           | day basis - apart from a long term appreciation of privacy
           | first email).
           | 
           | I have just started using the Spark Mail App - now that I am
           | excited about...if it lives up to its hype, it will be a
           | great addition to my workflow.
        
         | rosywoozlechan wrote:
         | idk I'm a legit happy customer :\
        
         | RockingGoodNite wrote:
         | I was thinking every response is almost incredulously high.
         | Also makes me wonder about the source of all the anti-self-host
         | email posts.
        
           | Karunamon wrote:
           | The source of those posts are likely people who got burned
           | trying.
        
           | b0afc375b5 wrote:
           | There's a specific comment here that is especially suspicious
           | to me, but I didn't want to pry.
        
       | diebeforei485 wrote:
       | I also appreciate that they allowed me to download all my info
       | after cancelling their service.
        
       | colordrops wrote:
       | If privacy is your main focus, you probably still want to go with
       | Protonmail, as it's based in Geneva rather than New Jersey.
        
       | 12907835202 wrote:
       | Can you sync Gmail and fastmail so that if you lose one you still
       | have the other?
        
       | aliasxneo wrote:
       | I'd love to get out of the 10-year GMail account I own. It's so
       | tightly integrated with other services that it feels like it
       | would take a monumental effort to make happen. Someone send help.
        
         | coffeefirst wrote:
         | I did it. It was a project but it wasn't that bad. What really
         | helped was:
         | 
         | 1. Email forwarding. Set a filter to label anything incoming to
         | the old address.
         | 
         | 2. Using a password manager. This winds up bring a map to
         | everything important.
        
         | yosito wrote:
         | I switched all of my accounts from my 15 year old gmail address
         | to a custom domain over the course of a few months, during
         | which I monitored both inboxes. I used my password manager to
         | keep track of which accounts I had updated. After about three
         | months of updating accounts, I set a permanent autoresponder in
         | Gmail telling people that the inbox is no longer monitored and
         | to please contact me via other means (I don't tell them the
         | other means to avoid spammers getting my new email). Then after
         | another three months, I stopped checking gmail completely. Now,
         | over a year later, I don't check gmail except in rare cases
         | where I come across an account I forgot to update, or am
         | waiting for a specific email that doesn't arrive to my new
         | address. The gmail account still gets about 15-20 messages a
         | week, and they're all basically spam and marketing junk.
        
         | abraae wrote:
         | The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best
         | time is now.
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | 10 years ago is still better than now.
        
             | abraae wrote:
             | Yeah, I've always had issues with that saying.
             | Pedantically, any time in the past is better than now.
             | Unless it was a drought at that time I guess.
        
         | jagged-chisel wrote:
         | I have fastmail pulling email from my gmail inbox. With those
         | emails in the same inbox with email for my new address, I miss
         | nothing.
         | 
         | When I'm ready, I'll set a rule to move incoming gmail into a
         | folder so I can easily see all the senders with my gmail
         | address. That's when I can work on changing those accounts to
         | use the new address. However ... procrastination.
        
           | aliasxneo wrote:
           | This seems like the best path forward. Have you been fairly
           | happy with your migration?
        
             | jagged-chisel wrote:
             | Very happy! Fastmail has been very reliable, the web UI is
             | good, and the native app is nice. I do admit that I haven't
             | had the opportunity to put their spam filters to the test
             | because my email comes primarily through gmail first.
        
             | enraged_camel wrote:
             | Not OP, but I have the same setup and it has worked
             | flawlessly since I made the switch several years ago.
        
         | troydavis wrote:
         | FastMail has solved that for you:
         | https://www.fastmail.help/hc/en-us/articles/360058752414-Mig...
         | (click Import, then Gmail)
         | 
         | When I moved many years ago, I migrated well over 50,000 emails
         | with FastMail's importer. Other than taking a few hours (all
         | async), there's nothing to it. Enjoy!
         | 
         | (I'm unaffiliated, just a paying customer. If you care about
         | customer support, privacy, or entrepreneurship, then FastMail -
         | or another paid service - is a better fit than a free service
         | can ever be)
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | WTF do you need to migrate 50,000 emails for.
           | 
           | That's like my grandmother who used to save every letter she
           | ever got. Never actually read them again, but god forbid you
           | suggest throwing them out.
        
             | AlotOfReading wrote:
             | Maybe you use email very differently? I find myself
             | occasionally needing years-old emails to find info I've
             | long-since forgotten and it's a lot easier to have all of
             | it in one place.
        
             | int_19h wrote:
             | Thing is, with abundant storage and good search, there's
             | simply no reason to delete anything. Worst case, you'll
             | never look at it again.
        
               | troydavis wrote:
               | This. There's zero cost to keeping them - including when
               | migrating hosts! It wasn't all that intentional, I just
               | didn't need to delete them.
               | 
               | Also, I wrote a lot of those emails (over 25+ years...).
               | Sometimes it's handy to refer to things I've written.
        
           | 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
           | How hard was it to move all your user accounts?
        
             | kioleanu wrote:
             | For me it was a couple of hours of work, going though the
             | password manager, logging in and changing the e-mail
             | address in the profile. I haven't migrated all and probably
             | never will - the accounts I don't care about can stay on
             | gmail
        
             | troydavis wrote:
             | My email address uses my own domain name, so I didn't need
             | to do that.
        
         | jmcphers wrote:
         | Lots of advice for making the transition, here's some more: buy
         | your own domain; don't use one of Fastmail's. That way you can
         | just change the MX records if you ever want to switch away from
         | Fastmail, and you will -- in theory -- never have to change
         | your email address on another service again. I've kept the same
         | email address for ~15 years now on this premise.
        
       | n8henrie wrote:
       | Started the transition from Gmail to FastMail at custom domain
       | yesterday. Presence of an API was definitely important (though I
       | probably should have tested it out during the free trial).
       | 
       | Had some initial buyer's regret for no reason in particular (did
       | the 3-year plan for the best price and assuming prices will go up
       | over time), but already feeling really solid. The web client is
       | very snappy, documentation is good, able to import my Gmail
       | messages, contacts, calendars, and even filters in a snap (though
       | imperfectly). Looking forward to seeing how the API compares with
       | my Google API scripts. Definitely seems to be more knobs and
       | buttons for power users (more powerful filters, regex, etc.).
       | 
       | While not relevant to FastMail per se, also really glad to
       | finally start the painful process of migrating decades of
       | accounts to my custom domain email, where I hope it will stay
       | forever. Growing concern about the (admittedly slim) possibility
       | of losing access to my Gmail account was a big motivator, as was
       | the recent move to force the Google Apps stuff to a paid plan.
       | 
       | So far so good.
        
         | girvo wrote:
         | I've been a Fastmail customer for nearly a decade at this
         | point. Its the one single subscription service I will never
         | ever balk at: it's been absolutely fantastic.
        
           | jon_adler wrote:
           | This is my 20th year of continuous subscription. They were my
           | first SaaS purchase! I have never once experienced a
           | disruptive issue, and my mailbox is still spam free after all
           | these years.
        
           | chrisweekly wrote:
           | Same. Bulletproof, "it just works", and it has great perf and
           | overall UX to boot. Couldn't be happier.
        
         | justicz wrote:
         | I know it's a meme that HN loves Fastmail, but it's a good
         | meme. I've been using them for ~5 years and love it. I use
         | their custom email alias feature all the time. The few times
         | I've had to interact with their support it's been prompt +
         | effective!
        
         | jve wrote:
         | > possibility of losing access to my Gmail account was a big
         | motivator
         | 
         | As a current user of Gmail and HN reader (where users blocked
         | for seemingly no apparent reason and no realistic path of
         | recovery), this possibility bugs my mind too.
        
         | innocenat wrote:
         | > (did the 3-year plan for the best price and assuming prices
         | will go up over time),
         | 
         | While they do go up, users on legacy plan still pay cheaper. I
         | am still paying $45 for the basically same feature as the
         | current $50 plan.
        
           | n8henrie wrote:
           | Wow, good to know.
        
         | jakemauer wrote:
         | I migrated from Google Workspaces to Fastmail earlier this year
         | and their migration tools made for a smooth transition.
         | 
         | My only big complaint is their woeful spam filtering. I get 1-2
         | spam emails a day, and I mark each and every one as spam.
         | They're all of the same format; The subject line is something
         | like [Symantec Invoice #431343] with the body being empty and a
         | single .jpg attachment of a fake invoice. The company name and
         | design of the invoice changes but it's always the same pattern.
         | 
         | I've contacted support but they shrugged their shoulders and
         | suggested I just keep marking them as spam.
         | 
         | It's annoying, but I pre-paid for 3 years so I don't quite feel
         | like jumping back to Google.
         | 
         | *Oh I just thought of another gripe that I didn't consider
         | before switching: their calendaring system isn't really that
         | useful for shared calendars unless the other people you want to
         | share with are also Fastmail customers. This seems obvious when
         | you think about it but I take for granted that literally
         | everyone in my life has a Gmail account that I can share
         | calendars with.
        
           | hackmiester wrote:
           | For what it's worth, I get the EXACT same format of spam, and
           | I am also on Fastmail. It's a minor nuisance. One day I will
           | write a sieve filter to try to catch them, because basically
           | nobody sends invoices that look anything like this. But, no
           | two of them really look the same...
        
             | sethherr wrote:
             | Thank you. I now will not consider switching to Fastmail.
             | 
             | Also, I don't trust Australia on encryption.
        
               | klibertp wrote:
               | Scrolling from the top to this point in comments,
               | Australia+encryption was mentioned 5 times already, and
               | refuted every time... My take: if you want encrypted
               | email, encrypt it yourself. It's less convenient, but at
               | least you know it a) works; and b) will continue to work
               | no matter the jurisdiction and your relationship with the
               | authorities.
        
           | jakemauer wrote:
           | Updating to be more accurate, it's more like 2 spam messages
           | a week on average make it through. It's a nuisance for sure
           | and not a dealbreaker but does make me wonder if Gmail would
           | be catching them.
           | 
           | Also I do have to praise their web interface, it's
           | startlingly fast.
        
           | yosito wrote:
           | Re: spam, this is why you should be using your own domain
           | with wildcard alises. If an alias becomes a target of spam,
           | you can block all mail coming to that alias.
           | 
           | Re: calendars, with Fastmail you can use any calendar you
           | want. I use iCloud for my calendars and just connect it to my
           | Fastmail account.
        
             | jakemauer wrote:
             | I've been doing the wildcard/per-site email thing for a few
             | years now, unfortunately these spam emails are coming to a
             | more generic address that I used to use for everything that
             | I can't quite ditch yet.
             | 
             | Also regarding calendars, can you share that calendar with
             | arbitrary people who don't have Fastmail accounts?
        
             | doctor_eval wrote:
             | Yes, I can vouch for this, I have had several shared
             | calendars using fastmail. I use the Mac/iOS calendars
             | daily.
             | 
             | One caveat is that Google calendar can't subscribe
             | read+write to an iCalendar feed. That's their problem
             | though. All other clients are fine, including outlook IIRC.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | jjoonathan wrote:
         | Fastmail's fast UI brings me joy every day!
         | 
         | Setting up a custom domain lets me act on my anger every time I
         | hear a story about google being shit to their customers: I pop
         | open bitwarden, find something still on gmail, and move it
         | over. I'm about half way through the alphabet. Feels good.
        
           | nr2x wrote:
           | "Alphabet" or "alphabet"?
           | 
           | Both?
           | 
           | ;-)
        
           | P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote:
           | I'm a staunch desktop guy and fastmails web UI has caused me
           | to stop using desktop email clients slowly over the years.
           | 
           | desktop clients are still better than web UI's, but fastmails
           | web UI is the absolute epitome of 'good enough'.
        
       | funride1 wrote:
       | Serious question. How does this compare to purelymail.com?
        
         | aembleton wrote:
         | purelymail.com are in beta
        
       | whatatita wrote:
       | I always hear good things about Fastmail but I've not had a
       | chance to use it yet. I set up a Proton / Protonmail accounts
       | years ago and have been happy as a clam with them ever since.
       | 
       | Work uses Gmail, though hopefully we can convince them to drop
       | that in the future. May be a time to try fastmail then. It's a
       | hard sell though; businesses get a lot out of the box with
       | GSuite.
        
       | rosywoozlechan wrote:
       | I checked my billing history with Fastmail, and it looks like
       | I've been a customer since 2014. I've never regretted it. I have
       | two emails with GB of space each. I love the web interface, I
       | love the 2fa options, I love android app. All of its clients have
       | easy account switching. Family set up is easy. Custom domain set
       | up is easy. I couldn't see myself using any other service.
       | 
       | I have to use gmail for work and it is not great. Confusing tabs,
       | sidebar re-arranged, some kind of interest based twitter feed
       | order for my email. And it's always bugging me to use Chrome,
       | which I don't.
        
       | throwaway787544 wrote:
        
       | daniel-grigg wrote:
       | If you're using apple and just want a custom domain you can do so
       | with an iCloud+ subscription. I switched away to it from Fastmail
       | and have been happy since.
        
       | jpeeler wrote:
       | Does Fastmail support muting threads, both in the UI and their
       | API? I've been waiting for Google to add muting to their API for
       | years:
       | 
       | https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/36759067?pli=1
        
       | ocdtrekkie wrote:
       | I'll probably have to play with this soon. I'm using my shared
       | hosting's email for an automated utility and I'm trying to move
       | off of needing that shared hosting.
        
       | nickstinemates wrote:
       | I have been seriously interested in migrating away from gmail for
       | a long time, but it creates a lot of anxiety.
       | 
       | 1. How to effectively migrate. Run dual email for a while?
       | 
       | 2. How to effectively back up email all of my content so it is
       | searchable. I've kind of used Google/GMAIL as a dumb filestore in
       | that, I know random messages are there from 15 years ago that I
       | can just use the google search for to bring up.
       | 
       | These are things I need to spend time on in order to take it
       | seriously. I'd like to take it seriously.
        
         | marpstar wrote:
         | When I left Gmail for FastMail, I imported my contacts and
         | calendar from Gmail, started fresh with the email. Nothing is
         | forcing you to delete your Gmail, you can always go back and
         | reference it. You can export your mailbox from Gmail and import
         | it into a local mail client, I just didn't bother.
         | 
         | For each new service, I'd sign up with my new custom domain
         | email instead of my Gmail. I'd continually check the Gmail for
         | emails that I cared about and would update my email for those
         | services/mailing lists as they came in. Over the period of a
         | couple years.
         | 
         | I maybe move one email over a month these days, so we're just
         | about done. With a custom domain, I'll never have to do this
         | again.
         | 
         | The best time to start is a few years ago. The second best time
         | is now.
        
         | sitzkrieg wrote:
         | been on fastmail a long time but heres what i did:
         | 
         | 1.i switched emails over as i logged in so it wasnt as
         | daunting. i did move over biggies like banking and daily stuff
         | immediately 2. later i setup gmail to forward all mail to
         | <gmail at my domain> so i dont miss the stray actual email to
         | old address
         | 
         | thats it. 12 domains and zero problems later! i should mention,
         | fastmails spam filter on the default settings is doing
         | drastically better than gmail did for a publicly posted email
        
         | commandersaki wrote:
         | The other replies are pretty good.
         | 
         | 1. To migrate I'd use their email import utility. I've never
         | used it but I've heard good things. On the Fastmail side set up
         | sender identities so you can compose (and reply) to emails
         | using your @gmail.com address [if you're using gmail
         | addresses]. On gmail side you can continue having a dual email
         | setup by having gmail setup forwarding such that it forwards
         | the email and keeps a copy in gmail. I have 4 gmail accounts
         | setup this way, so I know that I can always fallback to gmail
         | if there's an issue on Fastmail (haven't had one for over a
         | decade with this setup though).
         | 
         | 2. Fastmail indexes emails so they're searchable via their web
         | UI. It's pretty good, I've not really had any issues.
         | 
         | In my opinion, the best way to use Fastmail is to bring your
         | own domain. One really cool thing about Fastmail Web UI is that
         | it integrates well with catch-all email addresses, so you can
         | have <catch-all-alias>@mydomain.com and when you get emails to
         | that address, when you click Reply it automatically sets your
         | sending identity to <catch-all-alias>@mydomain.com. This
         | ensures your correspondence is consistent with the email
         | aliases you use.
        
       | pwpw wrote:
       | I've been with Proton Mail for the past two years, but I recently
       | switched to fastmail after switching from Android to iOS due to
       | how locked down Proton Mail is.
       | 
       | I know being locked down is part of Proton's schtick, and I could
       | kind of put up with only using their app for email. However,
       | being unable to use any app for my calendar and contacts was
       | annoying. It would have made the switch to iOS much easier.
       | Further, the proton mail app on android developed a bug related
       | to alternative routing that I was unable to figure out that led
       | to the app not working for me for over a month.
       | 
       | I began realizing that I value being able to freely use my email,
       | contacts, and calendars with whatever app I choose. The fact that
       | I can also sync notes and reminders to my custom domain on
       | fastmail from my iPhone is just a plus.
       | 
       | For operating a custom domain and being able to freely move
       | between front ends for those services, I'm really satisfied with
       | fastmail so far, and I'm actually using their web UI for email
       | and calendar because it works well enough for me.
       | 
       | My only small gripe is the fastmail app on iOS doesn't support
       | offline emails. The native Mail app does, but the reason I prefer
       | the fastmail app is native integration with calendar invites.
       | Perhaps if Mail ever supported the JMAP protocol being explained
       | in the post, I could happily use the app, which has become much
       | better with iOS 16.
        
         | Night_Thastus wrote:
         | On desktop, Thunderbird works great as a client for accessing
         | Protonmail, and it has those additional features like calendar
         | and contacts and so-on. Not sure if there's a mobile option
         | though, never looked.
        
       | yawnxyz wrote:
       | This is pretty cool -- it basically means we can use Fastmail for
       | transactional emails like "Thanks for signing up" kind of emails
       | along with our regular old emails right?
       | 
       | I've been using Mailgun for that as a separate thing; Mailgun is
       | great but the weird lack of API key management freaks me out.
       | Exposing one key exposes EVERYTHING and you have to cycle through
       | all the projects that use your account. So annoying.
       | 
       | I wonder if this is going to cause spam headaches for Fastmail
       | and lower their sendability though
        
         | Beltalowda wrote:
         | > it basically means we can use Fastmail for transactional
         | emails like "Thanks for signing up" kind of emails along with
         | our regular old emails right?
         | 
         | I just use SMTP for this (with FastMail). FastMail is not
         | really intended for this as the limits and the like don't
         | really scale to large services, but overall it works well
         | enough (you can create an "app password" which can only access
         | SMTP).
        
       | deadbunny wrote:
       | Nice that they have a specific support email for jmap bugs.
       | 
       | I recently found a calendar UI bug and it took about 6 back and
       | fourths with the customer support first line over a week before
       | they (said they) passed it to the devs.
       | 
       | Not the best bug reporting experience. But then again I can't
       | even fathom how I would have reported it to the Google or
       | Microsoft/o365 equivalent.
        
         | commandersaki wrote:
         | Hah I had an interesting experience. I was trying to get Mutt
         | to list the IMAP subscribed folders when there's nested folders
         | but the behaviour was somehow inconsistent with what I
         | expected/really odd.
         | 
         | Initially I thought this was due to a feature in IMAP that
         | Fastmail didn't support (well they use Cyrus IMAP so the
         | problem would stem from there). A back and forth with their
         | customer service and they immediately piped it to one of their
         | developers because it was technical and was discussing low
         | level IMAP commands with debug transcripts from Mutt.
         | 
         | Turns out Mutt was using an outdated/legacy IMAP command that
         | had been superseded by a new command with its own RFC.
         | 
         | Was able to patch Mutt and everything started to work correctly
         | and look consistent.
         | 
         | It's not everyday you have a email provider service help you
         | debug/troubleshoot your mail user agent which leads to actual
         | improvements.
        
       | exolymph wrote:
       | Amazing to reflect on how much goodwill Fastmail has cultivated
       | with me just by being a reasonably priced, full-featured,
       | competent-support-having service. I'm unlikely to ever do
       | anything with the Fastmail API, but I still upvoted mainly
       | because I'm enthusiastic about the company.
        
         | thom wrote:
         | Yep. I spent the best part of a decade fretting and
         | procrastinating over one day sorting out 3-4 Google domains.
         | When they announced they'd start charging I finally decided to
         | move to and was astonished at how easy the migration to
         | Fastmail was. I was done in about an hour across my desktop,
         | laptop and phone. Haven't had a single blip of any kind since
         | then.
        
         | AnonC wrote:
         | > just by being a reasonably priced
         | 
         | I'd disagree with this for my case and likely for anyone who
         | has two or three or four people at home who need their own
         | mailboxes (not aliases). Fastmail is quite expensive for such
         | cases. Of course, this applies to services like ProtonMail too.
         | But there are services that are far cheaper that have been
         | operating for years and hosted in Europe (the latter is for
         | those who want to avoid hosting in FiveEyes jurisdictions).
        
         | teaearlgraycold wrote:
         | Goes to show that even if there are a lot of competitors in a
         | product space you can still do well simply by giving a shit.
        
           | ThePadawan wrote:
           | This is why I pay a little extra to my (comparatively) small
           | ISP (Init7).
           | 
           | They pick up the phone and answer your questions.
           | 
           | They don't have you wait in a queue for 45min and affirm that
           | your call is important to them.
           | 
           | They don't give new customers better prices than loyal ones.
           | 
           | If they update local bandwidth, you get that for the same
           | price you paid before, without asking.
           | 
           | That's it.
           | 
           | I gladly pay less than $20 a month extra for all this peace
           | of mind.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | no-reply wrote:
           | This takes me back. I remember reading a post on HN about how
           | giving shit about customers actually makes a difference.
        
           | tablespoon wrote:
           | > Goes to show that even if there are a lot of competitors in
           | a product space you can still do well simply by giving a
           | shit.
           | 
           | The sad thing is that it's probably inevitable that someday
           | an MBA will decide to burn that goodwill for some quick cash.
           | Maybe not for a long time, but eventually it will happen.
           | That's the society we've built and live in.
        
             | danielheath wrote:
             | Pretty sure they're employee owned since 2013, which limits
             | how much BS can be brought in.
        
             | jph00 wrote:
             | Actually we sold FastMail to Opera, and since it didn't
             | really work out, bought it back again. Based on that
             | experience, I'd be surprised if FastMail got
             | (re-)acquired...
        
               | zinekeller wrote:
               | > Actually we sold FastMail to Opera
               | 
               | Can you elaborate what happened in the Opera era or are
               | you under an NDA?
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | josephg wrote:
             | Hopefully not for awhile.
             | 
             | Fastmail is bootstrapped and profitable. They aren't
             | beholden to outside investors trying to 10x their money.
             | Fastmail also just doesn't have that sort of culture.
             | (Source: I have friends there). They aren't looking to be a
             | unicorn. They seem very happy to have a profitable business
             | that they can nurture for decades.
             | 
             | Culturally, they're growing a garden, not launching a
             | rocket ship.
             | 
             | Eventually the company will change hands. Knowing some of
             | the people involved, I trust that when that happens,
             | they'll find good stewards.
        
               | Thorentis wrote:
               | Everybody has their price though. They may not ever IPO
               | or raise venture capital, but if Google came along and
               | offered them $50b I doubt they'd say no.
        
             | Gareth321 wrote:
             | I've come to embrace this as the business lifecycle. It's
             | quite well-studied. Eventually, all businesses rest on
             | their laurels; over-price, under-compete, and allow space
             | for newer entrants. If we consider the positives here, this
             | creates fantastic market and product dynamism, and (in
             | theory) prevents companies becoming country-sized
             | monopolies. I'm actually more concerned about companies
             | which remain competitive and loved over generations. The
             | kind of global power they could wield is scary.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | ocdtrekkie wrote:
             | The key thing is, with Fastmail building on open standards
             | and promoting using your own domain, they have very little
             | lock-in here. That future MBA is going to have a hard time
             | keeping people from just moving on.
        
               | deadbunny wrote:
               | Inertia is a killer.
        
               | jjoonathan wrote:
               | Owning your mail domain reduces the inertia by a lot.
        
               | selcuka wrote:
               | It only takes a few "improvements" to the "export data"
               | functionality. Here comes the inertia.
        
               | Semaphor wrote:
               | Exporting data over pop3 and Cal/Card/Web DAV is pretty
               | easy, more than enough tools available. And without them
               | supporting standards, they'd lose their customers.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | It always depends on whether you can make managers feel like
           | they make a difference; or else they will invent their own
           | ways to make a difference and get a raise.
        
             | teaearlgraycold wrote:
             | So I'm not experienced in hiring managers. But I would hope
             | you could select hiring criteria that would avoid this.
             | Don't hire people that fought to become a manager. Don't
             | hire managers that are working to get paid (obviously work
             | gets paid for - but the best workers care about the product
             | more).
        
         | jacooper wrote:
         | The problem with Fastmail is its based in Australia. A big no
         | no if you care about your privacy.
         | 
         | They need to backdoor every session to comply with Australian
         | rules, and every Australian is forced legally to comply, even
         | if in an international company.
         | 
         | https://www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-security-data-i...
         | 
         | https://tutanota.com/blog/posts/australia-surveillance-bill
        
           | counttheforks wrote:
        
           | iszomer wrote:
           | Based/headquartered in Australia yet have servers hosted in
           | multiple locations around the world? IIRC, some are in New
           | Jersey and don't know how accurate it still is [1].
           | 
           | - https://fastmail.blog/company/nyi-datacentre-move/
        
             | zwily wrote:
             | If the Australian laws are like the US's, where the servers
             | are located does not matter.
        
               | severino wrote:
               | So, that's the worst of both worlds, right? Servers are
               | in the US but still have to be subject to Australian
               | laws, and also, they are subject to the US law for being
               | in that country.
        
           | rakoo wrote:
           | Fastmail is a company providing email services. _No_ company
           | doing that can every give you privacy against a government
           | looking at who you 're talking to, when you're talking to
           | them. Only a minority protect the content, and even then it's
           | only when using a proprietary protocol.
           | 
           | The protocol itself prevents email from being safe privacy-
           | wise. It feels weird to single out Fastmail for that.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | entropyie wrote:
           | Fact is, 99% of your email exchanges will be with MS and
           | google anyway, so that horse has bolted. In terms of the
           | threat model facing 99% of people, getting auto banned from
           | Gmail is a far bigger risk than big brother reading their
           | email. I care about privacy and seriously considered
           | protonmail, bit it was too hard to use effectively (no IMAP)
           | and FastMail is still a huge step up from Gmail or self
           | hosting, balancing ease of use and risk mitigation. Excited
           | to try out the API!
        
             | jacooper wrote:
             | Personally I use Protonmail with no problems.
             | 
             | The bridge on Desktop is OK, and their mobile app is better
             | than every mobile open source android client I have seen.
        
               | zen_1 wrote:
               | You should check out FairEmail then. Great FOSS email
               | client.
        
               | jacooper wrote:
               | I didn't like its crammed and old design.
               | 
               | I'm currently using k9 for third party accounts, and its
               | good.
               | 
               | The proton app is great, it just needs conversation view.
        
           | danesparza wrote:
           | If this is your biggest concern, just use PGP.
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy
        
             | masukomi wrote:
             | pedantry: PGP hasn't been a product for many years. The
             | product is "Semantec Encryption". GPG is still a thing.
             | 
             | Separately "just use <public key encription>" implies it's
             | easy to do. Even if we ignore the fact that software
             | support is generally terrible, there's the much bigger
             | problem of convincing the people you email with to use it
             | too. If you're not doing super secret or illegal stuff
             | that's generally not a thing that's going to happen.
        
             | cmg wrote:
             | This is fine if you're not concerned about metadata (date,
             | recipients, subject).
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | danesparza wrote:
               | If that's the case, you definitely shouldn't be using
               | email. :-)
        
           | bsder wrote:
           | As opposed to, say, Gmail? Fastmail, even with Australian
           | rules, is way better than having your stuff buried in Google
           | or Microsoft.
           | 
           | However, if you don't like fastmail, who would you recommend
           | instead?
        
           | beermonster wrote:
           | Could just use ProtonMail
        
             | anderspitman wrote:
             | They still control your keys. I probably trust Proton more
             | than the Australian government, but if my threat model
             | includes caring about _any_ government accessing my data
             | then e2ee is the only option.
        
           | ocdtrekkie wrote:
           | It's really disappointing to see this comment second on a
           | page despite the fact that yet again... _the law has no
           | impact on Fastmail and never has_. This is the unfortunate
           | impact of FUD, where clueless comments will carry forward
           | wrong views for years, even in the face of overwhelming truth
           | around it.
           | 
           |  _Fastmail is not an end-to-end encrypted service._ There is
           | no requirement to backdoor it, like nearly every other
           | non-E2E service, the Australian government can just... send a
           | legal request. Like they always could. Or like they can do
           | with nearly every other email service.
        
           | phpisthebest wrote:
           | I dont view email has a "private" service in the first place,
           | if you want privacy in communications use something other
           | than email
        
           | Intermernet wrote:
           | This is correct. Fastmail have actually spoken about this,
           | and their silence on any particular topic can possibly be
           | seen as a canary. They're a great company trying to survive
           | in a hostile environment. I really hope that the new
           | Australian federal government will get around to winding back
           | some of the draconian laws the previous mob brought in, but
           | I'm not holding my breath.
        
             | Kalanos wrote:
             | I too have heard about many surprisingly draconian policies
             | in australia
        
             | ocdtrekkie wrote:
             | It is not correct. In order to need a backdoor, the service
             | would have to be E2E in the first place, which it is not.
             | Uninformed HNers bring this up on every Fastmail thread
             | like it's a big deal when it has zero actual impact on
             | Fastmail at all.
        
               | phpisthebest wrote:
               | A government forcing backdoors into E2E is always a big
               | deal, not with standing on if it impacts fast mail or not
        
               | ocdtrekkie wrote:
               | But this is a Fastmail thread, so a government forcing
               | backdoors into E2E is an off-topic comment, actually.
        
               | NegativeK wrote:
               | E2E isn't a requirement for something to be called a
               | backdoor, even though governments are constantly
               | demanding E2E backdoors.
               | 
               | An attacker having shell access or a government getting
               | plaintext dumps of whatever email conversations they want
               | (when users don't expect it) are perfect examples of
               | backdoors. AT&T giving the NSA a secret room for them to
               | suck up all comms, encrypted are not, is also a classic
               | example.
        
           | WesolyKubeczek wrote:
           | Probably a good thing I'm not planning to overturn the
           | Australian government using a combat-trained herd of pissed
           | off emus.
        
             | Wildgoose wrote:
             | For those unaware of the subtle wit above:
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_War
        
           | danielheath wrote:
           | Did we collectively forget Echelon exists?
           | 
           | Email contents are not private from any five eyes state, no
           | matter the provider (maaaaybe one protonmail to another
           | protonmail account, but I doubt it).
        
           | atmosx wrote:
           | True, the fact they are based in Australia is the only reason
           | I'm thinking about switching mail provider. Australian laws
           | are scary.
        
         | szundi wrote:
         | Too bad that after a while they will be acquired too. Becoming
         | slowly unreasonably priced and our data sold etc. Arbitrage
         | opportunity.
        
         | Gareth321 wrote:
         | How is their spam detection?
        
           | kilroy123 wrote:
           | I pretty much never see spam.
        
           | klibertp wrote:
           | Better than gmail recently. I have 4 different gmail accounts
           | set to forward to a single FM account. In recent weeks some
           | people here were saying they got spam in their inboxes on
           | gmail, and I also did get a few. They were forwarded to FM
           | which marked them as spam.
        
           | c16 wrote:
           | Actually really good. I've just checked my spam folder and
           | it's full - nothing has made it through (I'd forgotten it was
           | a thing, much like with Gmail).
           | 
           | disclaimer: FM customer.
        
         | abraae wrote:
         | I switched my primary email to Fastmail a few months ago. My
         | requirements were simply:
         | 
         | - must work well
         | 
         | - must be a paid service with proper support from a vendor
         | focused on email (i.e. not consumer gmail)
         | 
         | - must allow custom domains (so I can regain control over my
         | email if the provider goes under by updating MX records)
         | 
         | - must be the cheapest in the absence of compelling benefits
         | (ruled out GSuite or protonmail)
         | 
         | Fastmail fitted the bill and seems to be working as I would
         | expect.
        
           | BatteryMountain wrote:
           | For me, the primary concern are the horror stories of having
           | everything in your life linked to a gmail account and then
           | getting locked out with no recourse from google support. My
           | secondary concern is to have a custom domain and email
           | aliases. In my country the abuse of personal information is
           | rampant and I would like to start pursuing companies who
           | sells my information without consent.
           | 
           | Now if only I could generate a mobile number (msisdn
           | aliasing?) for each entity I interact with, so that I can
           | know who sells my number to spam callers.
        
           | LouisContant wrote:
           | I can understand ruling out GSuite but why did you rule out
           | protonmail?
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | jjoonathan wrote:
             | I switched from protonmail to fastmail recently. Fastmail
             | was a ton faster and didn't randomly forget my sessions.
             | Night and day to use. It also let me use two custom domains
             | without paying twice, which was nice.
        
             | waynesonfire wrote:
             | I had a bad experience as well. Been a long time proton
             | user. I had a CC incident where the proton mail annual
             | charge was incorrectly, without my confirmation labeled
             | unauthorized.
             | 
             | PM cut off access to my account for 4 days as the issue was
             | being resolved with them. Like, yeah I get it shitty
             | situation and they probably have to deal with a bunch of
             | scammers but I think it was way too extreme of a response
             | given I explained what happened and have been a long term
             | customer.
             | 
             | I'm thinking about going back to Gmail now.... any ideas
             | how to defend against this? For example, have a tested
             | procedure to change MX records of the custom domain to
             | another provider or even self hosted in order to restore
             | email access while an issue is being resolved?
        
             | abraae wrote:
             | I believe it was cheaper back then. Doesn't seem to be now
             | :)
        
             | bloggie wrote:
             | I cancelled protonmail and the subscription ended right
             | away instead of at the end of the paid period, so there's
             | that. Honestly it was just a bunch of little things that
             | added up. I don't remember any one thing that was
             | specifically distasteful except for the cancellation. I'm
             | on fastmail now.
        
           | saimiam wrote:
           | What do you do about Google docs? Or do you pay separately
           | for O365?
        
             | abraae wrote:
             | I was primarily concerned with losing access to email and
             | getting locked out of all my downstream accounts. Not so
             | much an aversion to all things Google. So I still have
             | gmail and still use Google docs. But for any important
             | signups or comms, I use my Fastmail address.
        
             | bismark wrote:
             | You can always create a personal Google account with your
             | custom domain email address: still has access to everything
             | except Gmail.
        
           | Hard_Space wrote:
           | Used FastMail as part of my big DeGoogle initiative last
           | winter. Very happy with it. However, one of the main
           | considerations of Fastmail vs. other providers is that the
           | domains they used are 'Visa-free' in terms of spam catchment
           | - everything gets through!
           | 
           | But some have noted that FM is an Australian service with
           | some interesting issues around privacy and five-eyes
           | surveillance.
           | 
           | For me, in the end, I had to pay that price (as well as the
           | sensible prices of the service itself), because I really
           | needed my business mails to arrive in people's inboxes.
        
         | zamalek wrote:
         | I'm extremely enthusiastic about the company, I loved their
         | product. I just couldn't deal with the concept of both
         | Australian and American jurisdictions.
         | 
         | If they protected data by hosting in pro-privacy jurisdictions,
         | I would be back in a heartbeat. As it stands, any claim about
         | privacy is aspirational and completely unrealistic.
        
           | lolinder wrote:
           | It depends entirely on your threat model. Their claims about
           | privacy are fine if what you're worried about is ads and
           | tracking rather than government surveillance.
        
             | zamalek wrote:
             | Breaches happen, and backdoors can be exploited. Australia
             | requires encryption backdoors. This isn't merely a state
             | actor problem.
        
               | ocdtrekkie wrote:
               | Fastmail isn't end-to-end encrypted, so there is no
               | requirement for a backdoor applicable to Fastmail. The
               | Australian law is completely irrelevant to Fastmail
               | except for FUD comments online.
        
         | kaboomshebang wrote:
         | Totally agree on this, love the full-featured -- but still very
         | clean and fast -- interface. Been happily giving them some of
         | my money for almost 10-years.
        
         | _fat_santa wrote:
         | I recently renewed my 3 year subscription with them and I've
         | been a customer since 2017, before that I was on GSuite and
         | O365. I still remember coming form GSuite and noticing just how
         | easy it was to set everything up, pretty sure I had everything
         | migrated over in ~1hr.
         | 
         | Since then the best news about Fastmail is that their is no
         | news: they just freaking work. Everything is stable and
         | predictable and that's what I want from an email provider. I'm
         | sure that GSuite and O365 have more features for collaboration
         | and I still recommend that customers sign up for O365 since
         | that's what everyone is most used to. But I'll say for personal
         | email, nothing beats Fastmail.
         | 
         | But by far the killer feature that they offer is domain
         | aliases. With filtering and aliases, I'm able to run something
         | like 5 domains and 20 distinct email addresses out of one
         | inbox.
        
           | trinsic2 wrote:
           | Yea, after awhile of using Fastmail for my own needs, I found
           | that I really liked the service so I decided to setup a
           | reseller account with them and have been switching my
           | att/yahoo/sbcglobal email customers over to this service as
           | there have been some issues with login and resetting
           | passwords due to the merging of att and yahoo.
           | 
           | I really like the integration they did with iwantmyname
           | domain name registrar. They make it very easy to setup a
           | custom domain name with the service. Also I have had great
           | experiences with the import tools and security features. The
           | admin interface for managing my customer's accounts is great,
           | its built right into the normal settings interface, and they
           | have good privacy features with the relationship between the
           | reseller and the end user.
        
         | BatteryMountain wrote:
         | Same. About a month ago I only knew of them by name but went
         | down the rabbit hole and read all of their docs & checked out
         | their repo's. I'm basically on the edge of de-googling my life
         | because they are the first bunch to give me confidence that
         | there is a long-term path forward. I hope they stay true to
         | their stated mission.
        
           | vladak wrote:
           | I contemplated the move from Google services and at one point
           | I went ahead and was very pleasantly surprised how easy the
           | move to Fastmail [1] was.
           | 
           | [1] with the domain managed by Cloudflare
        
       | bravura wrote:
       | Is there a good tool to fuzzily merge and de-dup multiple
       | inboxes? Because otherwise I'm going to have to write it myself.
       | 
       | I currently have a gmail inbox and hey inbox with partial
       | duplicates in each. I'd like to merge and de-dup my history as a
       | one-time event and migrate to fastmail.
       | 
       | The gmail inbox has longer history. The gmail forwards to hey so
       | hey has responses that don't exist in gmail.
       | 
       | I've already started with mbox exports and SQLite import, but I'd
       | rather use something pre-existing. Any pointers?
        
         | argulane wrote:
         | Put everything into a single notmuchmail database. It wil
         | deduplicate the emails and even provide a fast local search
         | interface for all of your mails https://notmuchmail.org/
         | 
         | For gmail you can use lieer to pull everything
         | https://github.com/gauteh/lieer (tho it can take hours to pull
         | everything). Fastmail has a similar tool
         | https://github.com/elizagamedev/mujmap
         | 
         | If you unpack tour mbox into maildir then you can import that
         | too into notmuch
         | 
         | After everything is in notmuch you can easily push your mail to
         | fastmail with isync/mbsync https://isync.sourceforge.io/
         | 
         | As a bonus point you now also have a easily updatable local
         | backup of your e-mails.
        
         | aendruk wrote:
         | I'm curious to learn why fuzzy matching is needed--isn't
         | Message-ID sufficient?
        
       | kioleanu wrote:
       | I too am a happy user of Fastmail, but I am plenty dissapointed
       | with the file storage, which was one of the main reasons I
       | switched to them 2 years ago (and not to a competitor). Their
       | support in both cases was just awful and more or less ended in a
       | "sucks to be you message":
       | 
       | 1. I wanted to sync a folder from my Windows laptop to the
       | storage through Webdav, using the Windows Explorer (which they
       | list as a supported client). I would get speeds of maximum 5kb.
       | Opened a ticket, went back and forth and the customer support
       | person suggested that I try with another (paid) client to see if
       | the speeds are better. I downloaded a trial, tried it out and it
       | was indeed better. Reported back and the person says something
       | summarized as: see? here you go, just use that client (that cost
       | another 50 euros)
       | 
       | 2. I find this one much worse: they disabled support for FTP
       | access to the storage. I get an email 1 (ONE) day before saying
       | something like: hey, there's no FTP starting tomorrow, we did
       | send an e-mail but didn't include _you_, here's 15 dollars for
       | your trouble. I was using FTP actively to back-up the website of
       | my small business nightly. Of course I email support and tell
       | them hey, c'mon, this is unnaceptable, you can't just tell me one
       | day before, give me a solution, something. The reply came almost
       | immediately and said: we sent an e-mail informing everybody 3
       | months ago, deal with it (???).
        
         | switch007 wrote:
         | I've been a customer for years but never touched their file
         | storage, calendar etc. I just don't feel they're big enough to
         | have real quality focus on anything other than email.
         | 
         | That's just the impression I get. Happy to be corrected
        
         | nicky0 wrote:
         | Sounds
        
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