[HN Gopher] Soldering Wires - Here's a different way
___________________________________________________________________
Soldering Wires - Here's a different way
Author : laktak
Score : 212 points
Date : 2022-09-26 12:35 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.instructables.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.instructables.com)
| SkyPuncher wrote:
| This is extremely useful to me as a _hobbyist_. Many of the
| critiques in this thread are valid, but probably not relevant to
| the hobbyist environment.
|
| For me, I struggle to get solder even in the best of
| circumstances. It's just a skill that I cannot master. I really,
| really like this technique as it enables me to make passable
| hobby solders without risking messing up my project.
| klyrs wrote:
| As a hobbyist, I've had my fair share of cold solder joints*,
| so I flinched when I saw what the linked article recommends. I
| once did something similar with cheap perf board, and ended up
| scrapping it because they can only take so much rework before
| the traces are destroyed.
|
| The only "good" I see in this is that they author has left a
| rat-tail of unmelted solder so at least it will have some flux
| left to wet the wire.
|
| * which show up as intermittent opens at DC with some fun
| dependence on position / temperature / humidity. At audio
| frequencies, they're disastrous -- I can only imagine what
| they'd do at HF.
| sickcodebruh wrote:
| I just started working with soldering last week to do my own
| pickup replacements and basic electric guitar maintenance, so
| this is very timely!
|
| In my first two attempts, I managed to swap pickups successfully,
| where "success" is measured as "it sounds the way I expect, all
| knobs and switches work, there is no unexpected buzzing." I worry
| about how much I don't know about it, so I'm curious: is it
| possible that I need to expand my concept of success? Should I be
| concerned that a joint that's fine today won't be OK tomorrow? Or
| is it enough to say that if it sounds right and doesn't look like
| trash, it is good enough?
| toast0 wrote:
| > Should I be concerned that a joint that's fine today won't be
| OK tomorrow? Or is it enough to say that if it sounds right and
| doesn't look like trash, it is good enough?
|
| It depends on the application. If you're not performing, the
| cost of a joint that fails later is just a bit of annoyance. If
| you're on stage and your equipment fails, that's a lot worse.
|
| I wouldn't think guitar solder joints are stressed out too much
| though, so if it lasts a week, it'll probably last longer.
| There's a little bit of vibration and motion, but not a lot of
| power or heat. And most people try to take it easy on their
| guitars --- it's not like car wiring or anything.
| amelius wrote:
| How would he solder two stranded wires together without helping
| hands/device?
| Kirby64 wrote:
| Twist two wires together... lean them against something to prop
| them off your table, then gently add solder and your iron. No
| need for helping hands, you just can't be too brutal with it.
| akiselev wrote:
| I prefer to just use a heat gun with some solder seal
| connectors (marine grade for free waterproofing).
| MithrilTuxedo wrote:
| NAVAIR 01-2A-23 NAVSEA SE004-AK-TRS-010/2M MARINE CORPS TM
| 5895-45/1E USAF T.O. 00-25-259
|
| STANDARD MAINTENANCE PRACTICES MINIATURE/MICROMINIATURE (2M)
| ELECTRONIC ASSEMBLY REPAIR
|
| https://www.robins.af.mil/Portals/59/documents/technicalorde...
|
| I was a solder tech in the Navy. That was our Bible.
| bsder wrote:
| Interesting. It looks just like the NASA guidelines, but with
| military slapped all over it.
|
| I wonder which ones came first given how much aerospace is
| miltary work.
| gw99 wrote:
| There's some terrible advice in there which is merely cargo
| cult thinking. The whole thing needs garbage collecting.
|
| The final straw was when I saw someone using a wire brush on a
| Metcal tip after reading one of these mil spec guides.
|
| I was production engineer defence sector for a few years.
| linker3000 wrote:
| Best I saw during my apprenticeship days in the 1980s was
| when we had some EE degree students on work placement.
|
| We worked in R&D and all (Multibus II) boards were hand-
| soldered and had to be visually inspected by a supervisor
| before testing.
|
| One chap presented his board for checking and, after a visual
| and touch inspection, our supervisor said that some of the
| joints were a bit 'pointy' and would need fixing.
|
| So off went the student to the fab area of the workshop, the
| board was put in a vice and I just stopped him as he
| approached the bench with a sandpaper-wrapped block of wood.
| armatav wrote:
| Hand soldering is a pain, also - ALL those joints are going to be
| cold and brittle - use a heat gun/headers and the paste.
| jasonpeacock wrote:
| I was taught to heat the wire and touch the solder to it.
|
| This looks like they are laying the wire on the solder, then
| heating the solder - not the wire. Won't this result in a cold
| solder on the wire?
| DanBC wrote:
| Lots of the joints in the images are sub-standard. This method
| is fine if you're happy bodging something together, but it's
| not great.
| [deleted]
| malfist wrote:
| Yes, this will result in a cold join that will be unreliable.
| akiselev wrote:
| The OP uses single stranded wire but the solder blob on the PCB
| creates far more surface area contact for heat transfer from
| the iron which makes a large difference with stranded wire.
| When you're soldering hundreds of connections, the time savings
| from not having to pin the wire against a solid surface or clip
| it in place is substantial.
|
| The bigger problem is that all the rosin flux in the solder
| will have evaporated, likely making the joint very weak. Most
| DIY projects lack any form of strain relief so it's a double
| whammy for any wire that will shift around.
| FpUser wrote:
| >"The bigger problem is that all the rosin flux in the solder
| will have evaporated"
|
| But the OP specifically adds short pieces of solder to the
| pads before soldering wires. When they finally lay the wire
| and start heating that solder piece might have just enough
| flux in it. Alternatively one could just smear some flux on
| the pad before laying wire.
|
| Still I am not convinced this particular way is of any
| practical advantage.
| akiselev wrote:
| Flux helps break the surface tension between solder blob
| and wire so I really doubt the flux in the unmelted solder
| would have a path to flow to the wire.
|
| But yeah, my solution is to just dip the wire in a jar of
| flux as I'm stripping and twisting them
| fps-hero wrote:
| That's a neat looking trick, will have to see how well it works
| in practice. I can't see it working too well if you need to feed
| the wire into a through hole.
|
| My trick is to tin the joint and the wire, apply no-clean flux to
| either the joint or the wire (situation dependent), then bring
| the two together while reflowing the joint. Quite handy for
| soldering tight multi-pin connectors.
|
| The real tip is buy flux, it's just as important as solder.
| cronix wrote:
| We much preferred rosin based flux in our shop. It flowed much
| better, made more perfect joints (no holes) and was much easier
| to clean after repairs.
| exmadscientist wrote:
| Agreed on the through-holes, and doubly agreed on the flux. All
| magic in soldering ultimately comes from flux.
|
| The other way you can easily solder to pads is to use solder
| paste. Many people don't seem to realize that paste is good for
| more than just reflow. It's not as useful for situations like
| this, where you need a relatively large solder volume (so I'd
| also use your method), but it works quite well for smaller
| scale work.
| pachico wrote:
| Surely unrelated but I remember being 15 (30 years ago) and being
| an electric guitar player with modest or no economic resources.
|
| I'm not saying that I celebrated the moment when one of my wires
| or jacks broke, but it felt great fixing it with a little
| patience and some soldering.
|
| I am close now to many musicians that never fixed any of their
| wires/cables.
|
| I kinda like to belong to those older times.
| duncan-donuts wrote:
| The last few years I've been getting out and playing guitar
| with more people. The thing I found most surprising was how
| most guitar players don't know how to fix their guitars. I
| genuinely enjoy fixing my guitars.
| genmud wrote:
| My trick for soldering wires to PCBs is to put a large blob of
| solder on the pcb, tin the wire (with a bit more than you
| normally would) and then just heat the joint/wire and am done.
|
| I run my iron really hot (750F/400c) and just get in and out. I
| use a curved conical tip and have never have had issues with this
| technique.
| amelius wrote:
| Well, they say that you lose the flux too early using that
| method.
| genmud wrote:
| Only if you spend too much time on it.
|
| You do have to wet your tip more frequently when you are
| using high temp with flux core. However, I end up with shiny,
| well made joints 99% of the time. If I burn off the flux, I
| typically will wick it up and re-apply, or just swipe the
| solder off the joint and add more solder (depending on what I
| am working on).
| squarefoot wrote:
| Bad advice. Just use a good solder iron, thin solder (possibly
| leaded), and good no clean flux, then lots of practice. It's all
| about timing: too quick = cold solder joint; too slow = burned
| pad/track, or part. Learn also to understand about thermal mass
| and how to change the temperature and timings according to what
| you're soldering and its size.
|
| Also, that iron looks like a Hakko "936" cheap clone: they are
| barely above the garbage level; get a better one. Used Wellers
| aren't that expensive, and no, you won't need a microcontroller
| for digital temperature control and all those gimmicks they put
| in modern solder irons. I also have a PineCil from the same folks
| that made the PinePhone and was amazed by its quality. Yes, it
| has a mcu for digital temperature control, but I'd lie if I wrote
| that I used any of its functions beyond setting the temperature.
| picture wrote:
| The PineCil looks like a TS100 clone, though I'm not too sure
| which came first. The huge benefit of these microcontroller
| irons are their monolithic heating element that integrates the
| temperature sensor. This allows for much better temperature
| control compared to cheap Hakko-style irons where the tip is a
| metal piece that sleeves over the heating and sensing elements.
| It makes a very meaningful improvement in terms of the time it
| takes to heat up parts with high "thermal inertia"
| MivLives wrote:
| TS100 was first. I believe the Pinecil also takes TS100 tips.
|
| I've liked the Pinecil except sometimes mine crashes in the
| middle of me soldering. I need to update the OS but I'm lazy.
| It does fail cold (Says it's hot but it's not heating) which
| is probably the better of the two ways it could go.
| buescher wrote:
| I like my Metcal and wouldn't be without it. But by most
| accounts the '936 clones do fine with real Hakko tips.
|
| A lot of technicians seem to like to have temperature knobs so
| they can dial the temperature around instead of swapping out
| for an appropriately sized tip: this works of course except
| when it doesn't.
| lolc wrote:
| Excellent! Why do I only see this now, after battling with a
| third hand for so long? Now I want to solder something!
| orangepurple wrote:
| Soldering is good, BUT...
|
| You should avoid soldering when possible because connectors are
| detachable for module maintenance and solder is prone to cracking
| in high vibration environments. Typically you will see a
| connector soldered and otherwise secured mechanically to a PCB
| where vibrations are unavoidable.
|
| Crimping is better whenever feasible
| jstanley wrote:
| Crimping is better if you're an industrial facility and you can
| afford to scrap a few parts working out how to crimp them.
|
| If you're an individual making runs of 1 and you have to crimp
| a different connector to a different wire every time, soldering
| is easier and more likely to result in a reliable connection.
| InitialLastName wrote:
| This is probably true for scaled production, BUT...
|
| Most people following Instructables for tips on soldering wires
| to vector boards aren't likely to need to maintain their
| prototypes, and roughly 0% of those prototypes will be in a
| high-vibration environment.
| gw99 wrote:
| Actually this crap will probably be bodged into a rats nest
| nightmare project if it's an instructables user.
|
| Anyone who has debugged one of them knows to do things
| properly or suffer the wrath of intermittent problems.
| orangepurple wrote:
| And intermittent problems make newbies lose motivation
| extra quickly and care even less until they eventually rage
| quit. It's better to just get connections done well right
| away
| orangepurple wrote:
| Soldered connections can be surprisingly crap (intermittent
| electrical gremlins) especially if you're a noob. You can't
| easily spot a cold solder as a noob. Meanwhile even a noob
| can easily judge basic crimp quality. Better to get an all-
| in-one box assortment of cheap male and female connectors off
| eBay
|
| I started out soldering but now it's mostly limited to
| installing connectors into PCBs followed by hot glue around
| the housing for mechanical rigidity
| DoingIsLearning wrote:
| Still the GP comment is in the right direction.
|
| For wires like the ones in the video you can still use
| something like a small phoenix connector and just screw your
| wire connections in, just like you would wire up a choc box,
| no crimp tools required.
|
| The advice in the post will likely create a cold joint and
| intermittent/noisy connections.
| phs wrote:
| As someone who only wants to occasionally perform one-off
| firmware flashes on my devices, soldering always felt clumsy and
| heavy-weight.
|
| For actual chips, SPI programmer clips have been great. For test
| pads, I just ordered one of these [1], which will hopefully work
| just a well.
|
| [1]: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09MKHH7DY
| spfzero wrote:
| TAG-Connect makes a nice one of these. I use their target
| footprint on all my MCU projects now. The guide holes and pins
| make it easy to hold with one hand and know it will stay put as
| you initiate the programming with your other hand.
| duped wrote:
| This looks like a recipe for cold solder joints and solder
| bridges and doesn't seem like it saves time.
|
| What you really want to do when you have dozens of jumper wires
| is to do an array-of-struct to struct-of-array transform on the
| steps. Instead of cutting, stripping, tinning, and soldering one
| wire at a time, cut all your wires, then strip them all, then tin
| them all, then solder them one by one.
|
| Here's a pro tip: when you tin the wires, lay the iron flat on
| your workbench with tip out into air and tin by laying the end of
| the wire on top and then adding the solder.
|
| Another pro tip: use a pair of needle nose pliers to bend the
| tinned leads by a little over 90 degrees to make a little hook.
| When you solder to the board you can apply a little tension and
| let the solder flow into the hole. Makes very string solder
| joints.
| teaearlgraycold wrote:
| Oh no. We've invented the assembly line again.
| austinjp wrote:
| > do an array-of-struct to struct-of-array transform on the
| steps
|
| I call this "pin-making" after Adam Smith's famous/apocryphal
| account of the division of labour in a pin factory [0] and do
| it in pretty much every area of my life :)
|
| [0]
| https://www.econlib.org/library/topics/highschool/divisionof...
| Whitespace wrote:
| If you have that many stripped wires to tin, you can use a tub
| of flux and a solder pot. Dip the wires into the flux, then
| quickly dip it into the solder pot. Perfectly tinned end with
| no plastic melting. Really hard to mess up vs a soldering iron,
| a wire, and solder wire.
|
| You can even dip multiple wires into the flux and solder bath
| at the same time, as well as use the flux tub again before you
| solder the tinned wire to the contact.
| duped wrote:
| Totally true, but you don't always have a solder tub or tub
| of flux laying around. The other advantage of this approach
| is it's easier to avoid tinning under the insulation
| mdturnerphys wrote:
| And if you have a lot of wires to strip, get a compound
| automatic wire stripper or a laser wire stripper.
| [deleted]
| lagrange77 wrote:
| There are laser wire strippers? Shut up and take my money.
| mdturnerphys wrote:
| Here's the one I've used:
| https://www.laserwiresolutions.com/product/mercury-4/
| bsder wrote:
| Yeah, every time I see a soldering "tutorial" that doesn't
| use separate flux--I facepalm.
|
| Flux is probably more important than the solder for good
| joints. A syringe of paste flux makes life ridiculously
| easier.
| gw99 wrote:
| I did several years in production engineering. We never
| used flux. Not once. It's a crutch for people who don't
| know how to solder.
|
| What we did was use solder that wasn't shitty. Big fan of
| felder 62/36/2 but it ain't cheap.
|
| We also cleaned stuff properly before soldering it. The
| reason people tend to flux things to death is that they
| didn't clean the oxide layer off before soldering. Or used
| shitty solder.
| wolfendin wrote:
| Yeah, I've been soldering for something on three decades
| now and the only time I need flux is removing parts on
| ancient boards.
|
| More flux that what comes with the solder isn't necessary
| with good technique.
| linker3000 wrote:
| "It's a crutch for people who don't know how to solder."
|
| This needs shouting from the rooftops.
|
| So many people get sucked into the groupthink on this;
| yes it helps with less-than-perfect beginner's soldering
| skills, but it should not be normalized.
|
| Flooding every joint with extra flux is unnecessary and a
| waste of money.
|
| /Pet peeve (well, one of them!)
| randombits0 wrote:
| We all don't get to work on nice, new, shiny PCBs.
| Sometimes other things get in the way. I have three
| different kinds of flux, two types of solder, copper
| wick, three solder suckers, two guns, and a scratch pen.
| I'm not out to practice the art, I just want to be
| effective.
| bitdivision wrote:
| felder 62/36/2 [0] is a flux-cored solder. So you were
| using flux every time.
|
| It's also a leaded solder, which is much easier to get
| nice joints from than lead-free.
|
| Flux is great, adding some before you solder is a good
| tip, and will likely help you make better joints if as
| you said, you haven't perfectly cleaned everything. The
| only downside is perhaps some more cleanup afterwards.
| There's no reason to disparage it's use.
|
| 0: https://www.felder.de/products/electronic-
| applications/manua...
| gw99 wrote:
| Yes it's additional flux that you don't need.
| OJFord wrote:
| So flux is 'a crutch for people who don't know how to
| solder', because that knowledge would lead you to use
| 'expensive' flux-cored solder instead of 'shitty solder'
| plus flux?
|
| I really don't think either's wrong, and anyway I assume
| 'production engineering' is not using how-to-solder
| tutorials.
| randombits0 wrote:
| Depends. New work versus rework versus what-is-this-
| piece-of-crap?
| buescher wrote:
| I agree up to... new parts shouldn't need cleaning. And
| cheapo hobbyist-grade RF and audio connectors often have
| a weird chrome + some kind of oil or varnish surface
| finish that just won't clean off or solder and flux is a
| godsend for those.
|
| That said, I let someone borrow my bottle of liquid flux
| about a decade ago and have never bothered to replace it.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| Another pro tip, get a better soldering iron than the one in
| the video.
|
| Soldering stations aren't cheap (Hakko is my somewhat-budget-
| friendly favorite) but that (plus good solder) will make you
| realize you've been able to solder all along: it's just that
| you were using crappy tools.
| whatshisface wrote:
| This looks like a good idea, but is the wire getting hot enough?
| Does the rosin work to dissolve the oxidization on the wire when
| the solder is being melted and sucked in by surface tension, as
| opposed to being melted by the wire directly? I could conceive of
| the rosin all ending up on the surface of the blob using this
| technique, not touching the wires.
| Zobat wrote:
| I'm guessing you really should (primarily) heat the wire in the
| final stage. With rosin core solder you should (my assumption)
| get a good joint as the pad is already "wetted" by solder and
| the flux in the solder should make sure you wet the wire
| enough. Haven't tested this so do your own verification.
| tzs wrote:
| I miss wire wrap. Simple, fast, and very reliable.
| DanBC wrote:
| I feel like tutorials should make it clear when they're giving
| you correct technique or some quick and dirty hack.
|
| One of the images shows damaged insulation and too much solder.
| https://content.instructables.com/ORIG/FES/OFV3/KZ7C3ZX0/FES...
| sitzkrieg wrote:
| great technique to triple solder usage of simple wire joins
|
| and as many have already said, pretty good way to get a cold
| joint or pockets
| dylan604 wrote:
| Yeah, but it's from the 70s, so it has to be good, right?
| an1sotropy wrote:
| plus with the accent it's more authoritative (at least to my
| US ears).
| WalterBright wrote:
| For me, the breakthrough was getting a thermostat controlled
| soldering iron. Suddenly I could make perfect joints every time.
| akiselev wrote:
| It's not the thermostat but the power output that matters and a
| slightly more expensive soldering iron will generally have a
| slightly better power supply. For example, the best soldering
| iron I've ever used is the Metcal fixed temperature inductive
| soldering station which require changing out the tip alloy to
| change the temperature (and I've never had to change tips for
| temp, only shape).
| pclmulqdq wrote:
| The temperature you need is very dependent on the PCB. I have
| heard of macbook repair techs using 850-900C irons because of
| the amount of metal in that PCB and its heat dissipation
| capabilities. I usually end up around 700-750 for hobby
| projects with 2-4 layer PCBs because I like to do the joints
| fast.
| fuckstick wrote:
| Show me a professional soldering station that goes anywhere
| near 900C - I think most max out at 500. I doubt the tip
| alloys could withstand that heat very long. Sounds
| ridiculous. 700C is excessive for just about anything.
| pclmulqdq wrote:
| Sorry, I meant 900F, which is almost 500C.
| akiselev wrote:
| Metcal fixed temperature soldering irons use RF induction
| instead of resistive heating elements so they don't
| struggle with large copper pours like that. The soldering
| irons you're thinking of have very poor thermal recovery
| compared to a proper Metcal.
| gw99 wrote:
| Correct. Once you go Metcal you don't go back. When I got
| divorced the first thing I put on the "mine" list was my
| Metcal :)
|
| You can solder on 0805 parts and switch to soldering
| bolts onto nuts without changing the tip or any settings.
| skybrian wrote:
| I have one, but I don't know what temperature to set it to and
| there are probably other flaws in my technique, so it's still
| trial and error.
| MarkMarine wrote:
| Depends on the solder and the component, for wires there is
| no way to hurt it so you can crank up for efficiency, and for
| sensitive components you need to be more careful.
|
| It's actually much harder to make a good solder joint with
| lead free solder, so be kind to yourself about it. No harm in
| re-doing a joint.
| WalterBright wrote:
| You can melt the insulation off the wires :-/
|
| Anyhow, I never fried a part with the iron. Heated the wire
| just enough to flow the solder, and applied heat only
| barely long enough.
|
| To avoid needing a third hand for some joints, I'd pre-fill
| the hole with solder. Then heat it up again till it melted,
| and push the wire in.
| munificent wrote:
| Electronics was my pandemic hobby. Even with a temperature
| controlled solder station, my technique was really hit or
| miss. Part of that is obviously experience, but the real
| lightbulb moment for me was _good solder_.
|
| Once I switched to Kester solder, I had a much better more
| consistent experience. My hypothesis is that cheaper solder
| doesn't have the flux as evenly distributed, so you get spans
| of solder with too little flux and then everything gets
| worse, then you hit a good patch and it gets better.
| skybrian wrote:
| Any particular kind you like? I'm still using some lead
| solder my wife had; maybe I should go lead-free if I'm
| buying some?
| munificent wrote:
| The one I got is "Kester 24-6337-8800 50 Activated Rosin
| Cored Wire Solder Roll, 245 No-Clean, 63/37 Alloy, 0.031"
| Diameter". I have no idea which of those words and
| numbers are significant. :)
|
| I didn't go lead-free because I've heard leaded solder is
| easier to use (lower melting point?) and since I'm just a
| part-time hobbyist, the health and environment
| considerations are minimal. It's not like I'm soldering
| eight hours a day every day.
| WalterBright wrote:
| Yes, flux is necessary. I use Kester solder, too :-)
|
| P.S. I worked my way through college being an electronics
| assembly technician, so I spent a lot of time soldering. I
| enjoyed making the boards look perfect.
|
| It turns out, this skill is transferable to soldering
| copper water pipes. Never had a leak! (Using a torch not an
| iron.)
| dogben wrote:
| Watch this before inventing a new way of soldering.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL926EC0F1F93C1837
| gw99 wrote:
| You shouldn't really lap solder wires to boards. They tend to
| pull the pads off the boards or crack. Better to use wire to
| board connectors or solder terminals.
| johnwalkr wrote:
| Those just starting out tend to think of solder as more direct
| than using a connector so therefore more secure.
|
| But it's surprising how poor the reliability can be. Aside from
| your points, solder can wick up a cable, and then the cable
| often breaks just at the point where the solder ends since it
| has no strain relief and may be right in the middle of a bend.
| This is especially true for adding solder to a crimped
| connector "for good measure". It does more harm than good.
|
| That being said it's convenient many times especially if you
| don't have connectors on hand or need to place wires in a
| specific orientation. Hot glue or better yet, RTV silicone can
| be used to make strain relief to increase the reliability. Or,
| when using perf board like in the post, a good technique is to
| drill a hole for a snug fit of the cable including insulation,
| then pass the cable through the hole before soldering to an
| adjacent hole.
| gw99 wrote:
| Good advice.
|
| It's worth expanding on my comment now I have a few minutes.
| You can terminate solid core like this if it has some strain
| relief but not stranded!.
|
| My favoured construction method is to take a Hammond box lid
| and screw a piece of blank FR4 single sided copper to the
| inside of it leaving enough space around the edges for any
| (proper) connectors you need. You can then drill out anything
| you need, usually BNC, SMA, DC jacks, FT capacitors and D
| connectors for me. You build the prototype on the FR4 board
| dead bug and use solid core or RG174 to wire up the
| connectors and lap solder them to the boards or components as
| required. This is done carefully with thought for weight
| distribution and to keep the total mass of the wires low.
| When it works the Hammond box is closed. If it needs to
| withstand vibration or moisture you build it into the bottom
| of the Hammond box and when done fill it with potting
| compound.
| exmadscientist wrote:
| No, you shouldn't lap join wires to surface-mount pads. But
| sometimes you have to. Just don't deliberately design something
| this way and we'll call it good.
|
| (Through holes are fine. Mostly.)
| Ao7bei3s wrote:
| Yes, but if you do have to design a PCB for soldering wires
| to pads, you can increase the strength of the pad by making
| the pad much larger in the copper layer. You can still keep
| it the original smaller size in the solder resist layer;
| keeping the soldering area away from the pad edge and fragile
| traces there increases the strength further, and gives it a
| tidy look and a nice soldering experience.
|
| For quick one offs, simply place a normal pad, place a copper
| fill polygon connected to the same net around the pad, and
| turn off thermal reliefs / set pad connection to solid for
| the polygon. Obviously if you need it a lot, draw a new
| footprint.
| gw99 wrote:
| You should even really do that. There are loads of nice
| solder in crimp terminations now that you can use for
| wires. Or wire to board connectors.
|
| Just stay away from any Molex crap. Tends to charcoal
| itself.
| buescher wrote:
| There are some really cool surface mount IDC things too,
| and push-in terminators for solid wire.
|
| Solid wire through holes is OK if the wire is never going
| to flex. Otherwise the stranded wire lapped to surface
| mount pads, or soldered into through holes, with a big
| blob of hot glue or epoxy for maybe-sorta "strain relief"
| is a great pet peeve of mine - it's ugly and it breaks.
|
| Never had a problem with Molex, myself.
| temporallobe wrote:
| As a soldering amateur, this looks effective, but it also seems
| to waste solder wire. Are there any other drawbacks? Either way,
| I'm definitely going to test this method out.
| Jemm wrote:
| I like it. That solder ball from the expanding rosin is a bit
| concerning but that was just a demo.
| eternityforest wrote:
| I have done this stuff in production environments. Wires and
| connectors are like, 30% of the challenge on simple projects and
| can make or break the quality of a project.
|
| You MAY have a chance if the wire is pretinned or you use flux.
| Do not do this with bare copper even if it looks like it works,
| you will probably get at least a few cold joints.
|
| The better version is to coat the wire and pad with solder, put
| the wire on the pad, flux. then press it into the pad with the
| iron.
|
| Better yet, never ever solder wire directly to a board in hobby
| or low volume work unless small size is totally critical.
| Especially stranded. It makes a metal fatigue point if things
| move at all, and requires hot glue to stand even a few bend
| cycles.
|
| And even when you do have good connectors, it's probably still in
| your best interest to minimize the number of wires hanging
| around, learn about I2C as quick as you can.
|
| It can't be quickly disconnected for repairs and replacement and
| troubleshooting.
|
| It's a lot of work.
|
| Even if done perfectly it's just not very nice.
|
| Instead, solder connectors to the board directly. For short
| ranges use 2.54mm jumpers. Never use male jumpers if you can
| avoid it, they are delicate and annoying.
|
| For longer distances, there are lots of things that don't suck,
| USB-C, 2.1mm barrel, Ethernet, 3 pin XLR, and whatever your
| country has for mains electricity.
|
| Stay away from normal 4mn banana plugs unless you are in a field
| where they are already everywhere. The cheap ones shear off. and
| have bad connections and they are not particularly common. Even
| DMM test leads don't use them, they use the shielded versions.
|
| Common off the shelf stuff that you can buy extensions for. Don't
| solder long wires to stuff, it will just make a tangled mess when
| you put it away and make it hard to troubleshoot.
|
| When you do have a reason to do stuff like that, Wago connectors
| and pigtail adapters are your friend especially for tests and
| troubleshooting Because then when you realize you actually don't
| need 5 XT60 extensions, you can swap the ends for something else
| quickly.
|
| And most importantly Do. Not. Invent. Some. Crazy scheme of
| powering all your projects from a central point over long 12v
| wires. Every new electronics DIYer seems to do it, and cables and
| wires are often the enemy. Yeah it looks cool and sci-fi and
| seems like a good idea to have wires everywhere, but single
| purpose and custom made cables are a nuisance to deal with,
| they're heavy and expensive and trip hazards.
| the_cat_kittles wrote:
| anyone have an opinion on what color to paint the bikeshed?
| ravenstine wrote:
| This makes so much sense. By doing it this way, the iron isn't
| fighting the thermal conductivity of the rest of the solder feed.
| It just has to heat a small bit of solder.
|
| I know there are aficionados who can point out possible
| disadvantages of this approach, but honestly, I can see this
| technique being really handy when you just want to prototype
| something out and you want to get things done efficiently. Not
| every solder joint needs to be perfect, just as not every PCB
| needs to be factory quality and is going to a customer. As
| someone who only occasionally needs to solder a custom circuit,
| this looks like a time saver. If I was frequently making PCBs by
| hand, maybe I'd think otherwise.
| sandreas wrote:
| Oh boy, nice idea, but this looks complicated and time consuming.
| I recommend to get some good equipment first: -
| solder fume extractor (see below) - extra thin high quality
| tin - a desoldering pump AND desoldering wire - high
| quality flux - a TS 100 soldering Iron with KU tip from ali
| express for 50 bucks - optional: USB-C Power Adapter for
| your existing power supply (so you don't have to buy one) -
| optional: a soldering mat (normaly blue colored)
|
| and you have a near professional equipment for about $120. Now
| flash IronOS[1] on your soldering Iron, and it works even better.
|
| Instructions: - turn on solder fume extractor
| - heat iron to 370deg Celsius (but be careful depending on your
| workpiece) - Tin both ends beforhand - better
| slightly more flux to put on (but not for small works) -
| if flux has been applied, cleaning up with e.g. toothbrush &
| isopropyl alcohol after you're done maybe a good idea
|
| However, the most important peace of hardware is a solder fume
| extractor... I'm surprised that so many youtube "professionals"
| don't put a hint on this - never play with your health. This can
| even be done DIY (see youtube tutorials).
|
| High quality flux is also important because of your health.
| Chinese sellers often don't care about ingredients...
|
| High quality tin is much easier to work with and costs 5 bucks
| more than low quality tin. It is worth.
|
| [1]: https://github.com/Ralim/IronOS
| sottol wrote:
| Or get a $25 Pinecil that comes with IronOS pre-installed and
| is by all accounts almost as good as the TS-100 [1] (it's $40
| on Amazon now :/). I got one, was so impressed that I got
| another. One big upside over the TS-100 for me is that it can
| be driven by both a beefier USB-C (which I always have around
| anyway) and DC-plug PSU.
|
| Plus, it's running Risc-V, and they even sell an breakout to
| use the "logic board" as a RISC-V dev-board!
|
| [1] https://pine64.com/product/pinecil-smart-mini-portable-
| solde...
| larrywright wrote:
| Do you have a recommendation for a home hobbyist fume
| extractor?
| gw99 wrote:
| Oh please not the flux over everything argument. This is
| completely wrong.
|
| Buy a decent iron (metcal - get a second hand one off eBay) and
| some decent solder (felder 62/36/2) and you don't need it.
|
| Also don't use a toothbrush with isopropyl. They tend to
| dissolve and leave crap all over the board.
| [deleted]
| buescher wrote:
| Agreed on the flux, agreed on the metcal. And oh yes, silver
| bearing solder is really nice. I only use it for repairs of
| solder joints that have failed mechanically. If you use it
| for everything, that solves that problem... but a little rich
| for my blood.
|
| Hobbyists and technicians get obsessed with cleaning off
| flux. Hobbyists have no business cleaning flux off boards.
| It's very easy to wind up freeing corrosive salts from the
| rosin matrix. Then they smear all over the board to corrode
| and conduct. My rule of thumb is if you can't measure the
| cleanliness of your board, don't clean it.
| thrway3344444 wrote:
| > Oh please not the flux over everything argument.
|
| > felder 62/36/2
|
| Other readers please note that felder 62/36/2 has a flux
| core. Which isn't clear in this comment.
| sandreas wrote:
| I modified the "advice" a bit... What would you recommend to
| clean up?
| gw99 wrote:
| Kimwipes soaked in isopropyl pushed around with some
| guaranteed 100% nylon brushes (usually the black ESD
| brushes are fine for this).
|
| Toothbrushes bristles may melt. Not all of them are nylon
| and if they aren't they will go sticky and this will wipe
| off on the surfaces.
| sandreas wrote:
| Thanks, I keep that in mind for the next soldering
| project.
| linker3000 wrote:
| Check out 'Acid brushes' for use with IPA.
| fifteenforty wrote:
| 100% on the fume extractor. Avoid the cheap little "carbon
| filter" models though. You need particulate filtration and a
| bit of organic vapour extraction, so HEPA +/- carbon if you are
| going to recirculate it within your work environment.
|
| Don't take my word for it, it's all explained in the NIOSH and
| OSHA handbooks.
| GuB-42 wrote:
| You don't get the same exposure from working in a shop
| soldering all day than from the occasional hobby project. And
| if you have a simple fan, you are already doing more than
| most hobbyists.
|
| Safety is not priceless. Regulators carefully calculate how
| much impact various safety equipment and practices have
| relative to their cost. And you too should consider how much
| you need it. Solder for hours a day, get the best fume
| extractor you can find, do a hobby project every other month,
| you can go cheap.
|
| Anyways, I wonder if a simple small desk fan fitted with a
| surgical mask you probably have too much of would be a good
| compromise of simple, cheap, and better than nothing for
| hobbyists.
| buescher wrote:
| I have never bothered, personally, even when I built more
| of my own prototypes myself. Hobbyists should consider
| their personal risk and go in increments. If you are not in
| a situation where setting up monitoring for exposure to
| flux per the NIOSH handbook is appropriate, you probably
| don't need much mitigation either. Putting solder
| assemblies at a level where flux smoke won't go up into
| your face is a good idea and practically free. A fan is a
| good idea, especially if you have one already.
|
| If you're fixated on getting yourself a fume extractor...
| well, to each their own.
| accrual wrote:
| As someone aspiring to solder more, thanks for this list! Do
| you have any thoughts on the TS 100 vs the Pinecil? I thought
| the Pinecil was a slightly newer and more refined iron but
| curious if you have an opinion.
|
| https://pine64.com/product/pinecil-smart-mini-portable-solde...
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| I did have issues with 2 Pinecils breaking on me. The first
| one they replaced under warranty. I still use a 3rd I have,
| so I don't mind recommending it because I can get a Pinecil
| for cheaper than a TS100, and I doubt you'll get better
| support for a TS100 if something does come up within the
| warranty period.
|
| Oh I should mention I have both the TS100 and Pinecil, and
| the Pinecil does everything the TS100 does.
| belval wrote:
| Not the original commenter, but the pinecil has been serving
| extremely well for a while now. I ordered it when it launched
| and probably use it every two weeks.
|
| Full disclaimer I know some people had trouble with the USB-C
| power input so YMMV, but considering the price it's probably
| the most cost-effective tool I ever bought.
| sandreas wrote:
| No, I did never own a Pinecil, but the TS100 is just awesome,
| but the KU tip is even more important. It looks too big for
| fine work, but it isnt. I soldered a broken backlight fuse
| for my T480s with this (that's proably the tiniest thing ever
| soldered without a heat gun).
| lapetitejort wrote:
| > Now flash IronOS[1] on your soldering Iron
|
| I got to here and thought this was some elaborate joke, and
| expected the github page to continue on with the joke. An
| operating system for a soldering iron?? But no, it seems 100%
| serious. Somehow soldering iron tech passed me by.
| racnid wrote:
| Anything more than your basic soldering iron is probably
| running a PID loop to control temperature. I don't know if my
| hakko is supported by IronOS but I could easily see it as a
| useful option.
|
| It's the flashlight guys who have really run amok:
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/flashlight/comments/xopqft/prob_a_g.
| ..
| sandreas wrote:
| Everthing is better with open firmware :-) Glad you like it.
| outworlder wrote:
| I just need a firmware that will connect to Home Assistant so
| it can track my soldering habits.
|
| Just joking... mostly.
| lapetitejort wrote:
| As someone who has left their soldering iron run overnight,
| this might be useful...
| linker3000 wrote:
| Most soldering iron firmware includes a sensor routine
| that turns them off if movement stops for a set period.
| outworlder wrote:
| Why is it that the TS100 gets recommended so often?
|
| I took a look at it, ultimately got a TS80P. It's smaller, and
| fed via USB-C. Seems to work perfectly fine.
|
| > solder fume extractor
|
| How big of a deal is solder fumes of unleaded solder?
| sandreas wrote:
| > Why is it that the TS100 gets recommended so often?
| Higher temp lighter faster heat up easier
| temp adjustment
|
| See https://oscarliang.com/ts80-soldering-iron-ts100/
|
| > How big of a deal is solder fumes of unleaded solder?
|
| Depends on solder, but spending $40 for not risking your
| health is affordable in my opinion...
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| The TS100 tips are not compatible with the TS80P last I
| checked. The TS100 uses generic T12 tips that are easier to
| get. Same as the Pinecil too.
| linker3000 wrote:
| The fumes come from the flux, and they're not that great for
| you in quantity.
|
| Soldering temperatures will not vaporize lead or the metals
| in unleaded solder.
|
| There is also some conjecture that the fluxes used in
| unleaded solder produce more aggressive fumes.
| arcticbull wrote:
| The TS100 is apparently not recommended for IronOS according to
| their README. Curious why you chose that one over, for
| instance, a recommended TS80P or better a Pinecil V2? Full
| disclosure: I have a 15 year old Weller WD1 so I don't know
| much about this.
| YeahNO wrote:
| I'm not a fan, this looks like terrible advise. If you want to do
| high quality work, solder header pins onto the board and use
| crimp-connectors on your lead wires. I don't use flux-core wire,
| I prefer to apply flux directly to the pads/pins/wires as
| applicable. As others have pointed out, use appropriate strain
| relief.
| jbverschoor wrote:
| Looks like a blob of solder used as hot glue.
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