[HN Gopher] Train Travel in the UK: A Foreigner's Perspective
___________________________________________________________________
Train Travel in the UK: A Foreigner's Perspective
Author : edent
Score : 76 points
Date : 2022-09-25 19:05 UTC (3 hours ago)
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| mihaaly wrote:
| Try to commute for a month next time please. ; )
| ghaff wrote:
| I'm sure that one can identify exceptions but I suspect that
| anyone doing a daily commute at rush hour on public
| transportation just about anywhere would find plenty to
| complain about.
| lol768 wrote:
| > The UK has a hybrid model which is also in use in countries
| like Germany, which means that seat reservations can be made on
| many trains but aren't compulsory.
|
| > This optional seat reservation system is so much better as it
| means that trains can technically never sell out and you can
| always hop on board of a certain service.
|
| The UK system is starting to move away from this "get up and go"
| model, unfortunately.
|
| A number of train operators are now setting the "Reservations are
| mandatory" flag on their services in the timetable data, which
| means that online journey planners cannot sell walk-up tickets if
| there is not seat reservation availability (or indeed, if
| reservations have not yet opened which is increasingly the case
| for west-coast services until very close to the travel date),
| even if it would be possible to buy that same ticket from a
| machine at the station or in-person at a ticket office and it
| would be perfectly valid for said service.
|
| It ends up with really poor UX.
| techsupporter wrote:
| This is the problem I recently encountered with Avanti West
| Coast in particular, so often that I am kind of astounded that
| the author didn't hit it once and instead praises Avanti.
|
| Avanti's ticketing system would flatly refuse to sell me an
| "anytime single" for virtually any route. I had to scroll
| through and finally find one that claimed to have a seat
| reservation available and then I could use the actual train I
| wanted--which, I might add, had buckets of unreserved seats.
| Once I got griped at by a conductor for taking the "wrong"
| train when he missed that I had any anytime (1st!) ticket,
| which was the only thing their own booking engine would sell
| me.
|
| This month, every Avanti West Coast train I've tried to use has
| been canceled, and they seem utterly incapable of running
| direct trains. I've seen the inside of Crewe quite a few times
| more than I originally intended.
|
| (I understand that it is partially due to "industrial action"--
| such a nice phrase for "striking workers because they don't get
| paid enough"--and partially due to limited overtime by those
| same workers. That's, frankly, not my problem. Pay your people
| and run your trains.)
| nicoburns wrote:
| > even if it would be possible to buy that same ticket from a
| machine at the station or in-person at a ticket office and it
| would be perfectly valid for said service.
|
| You can also buy a ticket which is nominally for a different
| train online, which will still be valid so long as it's not an
| advance ticket. But I agree this has bad UX.
| gw99 wrote:
| I'm a regular train traveller in the UK. It's a shit show
| especially for us hikers. Trying to navigate the mess that is
| different operators and ticket splits to not get utterly shafted
| is a nightmare.
|
| Then half the trains go missing or are on strike suddenly.
|
| I have got to the point I prefer the rail replacement busses.
| michaelt wrote:
| _> British people love to complain about the state of their
| railways_
|
| I find people have a very different experience with UK rail on
| whether they're travelling for business or pleasure.
|
| People who commute have to take trains at peak time, at the
| absolute highest ticket prices, take hundreds of trains a year
| giving lots of opportunities to get delayed, might get yelled at
| for being late, and at the end of their journey is... work.
|
| On the other hand, _my_ train travel is off-peak, not that
| frequent, and almost always taking me to a loved one, a party or
| a concert. Understandably, my feelings towards trains are very
| different to my commuter peers!
| traceroute66 wrote:
| > _British people love to complain about the state of their
| railways_
|
| When British people go to Switzerland or Japan its like they've
| died and woken up in heaven.
|
| Japanese rail in particular is pure heaven compared to the UK.
| Trains are _always_ punctual. Trains are _always_ clean. Trains
| are _always_ frequent.
|
| And that's before we start talking about the amazing food
| stores that are attached to main Japanese stations. In the UK
| you get a filthy station full of greasy horrible fast-food
| stores.
| imnotlost wrote:
| The Tokyo subway during rush hour is anything but heaven.
| alias_neo wrote:
| Having spent the past ~10 years living in London, I
| disagree.
|
| Rush hour Tokyo trains were a dream, people are polite and
| queue, but they queue so that they're not in the way, the
| carriages are surprisingly head-roomy for 6'4 me, unlike
| the shit show of the central line, they're cooled properly,
| like the circle/district and the stations were almost
| universally clean and spacious unlike our tube platforms
| which are often cramped with tiny exits through archways
| blocked by people filling the platforms.
|
| I'm not saying the London Tube is bad, but I would take
| Tokyo subway over it any day.
|
| It may be controversial to say but tourists (local or from
| afar) are generally the worst part about central London
| commuting, due to the ignorance of the etiquette,
| especially when tourist numbers can be overwhelming in some
| parts.
| dagw wrote:
| No public transport system is great at rush hour. Still
| having used the 'subway' in both London and Tokyo at rush
| hour, I much prefer Tokyo.
| dustedcodes wrote:
| You must be trolling.
|
| In London even during the rush hour you get a seat when
| you are disabled or pregnant.
|
| In Tokyo you end up pregnant when you enter the train:
|
| https://noisebreak.com/wp-
| content/uploads/2017/07/oshiya.jpg
| johnwalkr wrote:
| Based on the fashion and film grain, that picture is
| probably 30 years old. I lived in Tokyo recently, for 5
| years, and saw this maybe 3 times, all at special
| occasions, such as on the way to a large fireworks
| festival. I've experienced train pushers in Vancouver
| during the 2010 Olympics, too. Yes, many trains are
| uncomfortably crowded at rush hour but I've experienced
| the same in Europe. Maybe slightly worse in Europe,
| because at least the train tends to be on time and the
| ticket machines and turnstiles always work in Japan.
| WastingMyTime89 wrote:
| In Paris train pushers are just a convenient excuse for
| you to ram the idiots standing clueless in the middle of
| the carriage towards the aisles where they should have
| gone from the start while pretending it's not your fault
| anyway.
|
| It's nearly as enjoyable as getting someone out of the
| way so you can get in said aisles yourself and avoid
| being compressed next to the doors at rushed hours.
| dagw wrote:
| Is that still a thing? I never saw any oshiya when I was
| there 5 years ago.
| bobthepanda wrote:
| Train congestion has been falling with the decline in
| population.
|
| Also, the pandemic has really sped up adoption of either
| wfh, partial wfh, or commuting during "shoulder" hours
| instead of the peak of peak, from what I've heard.
| sanitycheck wrote:
| It's like London, but the overly-compressed people are more
| polite and the air doesn't get quite so.. _thick_ because
| the carriages are much bigger.
|
| Also, the trains are on time, so there's no waiting on an
| _overflowing_ platform for 10 mins of no trains then 30
| minutes of trains too full to get onto.
|
| Having experienced both, I'd take Tokyo anytime.
| traceroute66 wrote:
| > _The Tokyo subway during rush hour is anything but
| heaven._
|
| I've done that.
|
| Its busy for sure. But it works. Even if crowded, its still
| punctual and high-frequency.
|
| Still preferable to a London rush-hour.
| jotm wrote:
| When I lived in the UK, I thought 30 minute delays two days per
| week were the worst thing ever.
|
| After living in Germany... British railways seem like an
| enterprise level SLA.
|
| Tickets with a short expiration time (2 hours... why?), hour(s)
| long delays, sudden last minute platform changes (you need to
| use the underground passage full of people), _trains just
| disappearing off the screen with no notice after being delayed
| several times_ (I mean, come on!), incredibly rude controllers
| who just seem like they really want to throw you in prison for
| not having a ticket (oh yeah, that 's a thing, take that
| Brits!), shoddy rail and frequent stops in the middle of
| nowhere (or 100 meters from your station), trains that make the
| Pacers seem like Cadillacs (OK that was one time, not sure
| where they pulled that pos from)...
|
| I kinda see why Germans hate Deutsche Bahn :D
| ozim wrote:
| Wait till you get to travel Polish trains - 120 minute delay
| suddenly becoming 240.
|
| It got better as personnel seems to be more friendly than
| 10-15 years ago.
|
| Train! You were lucky to have a train! We used to run on the
| rail, all twenty-six of us, no sitting spots, 'alf the floor
| was missing, and we were all 'uddled together in one corner
| for fear of falling.
| thinkingemote wrote:
| I loved the Pacers there was something so democratic and
| comfy about the version with the rows of seats on them with
| no headrests. Lovely train.
| pgorczak wrote:
| It's bad right now. In August only 57% of German long
| distance trains arrived less than 6 minutes behind schedule.
| 23% had more than 16 minutes delay. IIRC that's not even
| counting canceled stops.
| bloqs wrote:
| This literally describes my british rail experience. My local
| trains are operated by DB.....
| SilverBirch wrote:
| > take hundreds of trains a year giving lots of opportunities
| to get delayed,
|
| The problem isn't taking lots of trains. The problem is N.
| About 20-50% of the trains I take are delayed, and another 20%
| are overcrowded due to... previously delayed or cancelled
| trains. If N is <10 that just menas I'm unlucky. If n > 200,
| that means I'm paying >PS5000 a year for trains that _don 't
| work_.
| GOATS- wrote:
| The author of this post seemed to have struck gold with the
| trains he went on. This entire summer, my train trips have been
| troubled with constant delays and cancellations either because of
| heat or the constant rail strikes.
|
| Travelling to-and-fro Stansted by train was awful compared to
| taking the National Express up to the airport. The CrossCountry
| trains were small and crammed to the brim, I had even less leg
| space in the train than I did with my budget airline flight. Even
| sitting up completely straight, I still felt my knees rub up
| against the metal of the seat in front of me. The train stations
| and trains themselves were filthy with trash lying around. One
| thing that always bothers me while travelling in the UK, is how
| there's essentially no cell service along the whole route. You're
| lucky if you even get to pull up HN reliably.
|
| I suppose it helps travelling first class - but that is not at
| all realistic for most people living in the UK.
| renewiltord wrote:
| The first time I visited the UK, a train was slightly late and at
| the far end after I'd disembarked I noticed a man in a bowler
| hat, absolutely red in the face. "The train was TEN MINUTES
| LATE", he exclaimed at the station master. "We're still
| recovering from the storm", said the station master. "The storm
| was TWO WEEKS AGO. I can't believe you've still got trouble".
|
| I was very impressed by this bowler hatted Thompson&Thomson
| character's high standards. Of course, eventually I moved to the
| UK to live in London, and found that he must have been
| disappointed very often indeed.
| stuaxo wrote:
| "last minute tickets can be expensive" we used to call these walk
| up tickets and it was just the same price as everything (and not
| expensive).
| pydry wrote:
| If you have plenty of flexibility, take a few journeys only and
| plan well ahead train travel in the UK is a bit pricey but
| generally fine.
|
| If, on the other hand, you need to go somewhere at short notice
| or you need to commute by train, they will f*king gouge you.
| _dain_ wrote:
| How far ahead do you have to book? I've never noticed prices to
| vary depending on time ..
| oakesm9 wrote:
| Advance tickets go on sale 12 weeks ahead of time. They start
| off cheap and once a certain amount is sold the price goes
| up. That keeps going until all advanced tickets are sold and
| you can only buy "anytime" tickets.
|
| I'm sure there's a system for how many advance tickets there
| are for each route, but I can't find any reference to it.
| lol768 wrote:
| The system is called RARS, the quotas are set by the train
| operating companies and there's no transparency whatsoever
| as to how many tickets there are available per train
| service/journey segment at each price point (commercially
| sensitive). The most you'll get is a "there's 2 tickets
| left", I think for all n <= 9
|
| Advance fare tiers are also not regulated by the Govt fares
| increase cap, so the operators can charge what they like.
| SilverBirch wrote:
| >1. Train stations across the UK are gorgeous
|
| Yes, strategically we basically stopped investing Rail
| Infrastructure in the late Victorian era. So yes, everythin is
| very picturesque.
|
| >In my experience, looking up schedules, booking tickets,
| reserving seats and travelling by train was all as
| straightforward as can be.
|
| You clearly haven't ever _bought a ticket_. PS30 please, unless
| you want to travel after 10am, then it 'll be 25, oh wait you
| want to go via Reading that'll be 40. Haha, you got through the
| barrier tapping your oyster card? That doesn't work out here!
|
| >Avanti West Coast and LNER are the pick of the bunch in this
| regard as both offer quality hot meals and free-flowing drinks in
| first class, including beer, wine and strong alcohol.
|
| Yes, when you buy a train ticket the cost of a 3 bed semi,
| they've got some margin. The idea of traveling first class is
| unheard off for brits.
|
| >4. The UK has two great sleeper trains
|
| The UK, a country where you could name about 30 destinations that
| would deserve decent sleeper routes, has two. This sums up the
| Caledonian sleeper:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-
| news/2022/jul/22/passenger-sp...
|
| >5. Train travel in the UK can be expensive, but..
|
| I live in a commuter town to London, I spend more on a single
| ticket to work than a months unlimited travel on German railways.
|
| >7. Platforms are announced late
|
| Specifically, they're announced _far_ later than they need to be.
| If you see the 9:15 train to Maidenhead hasn 't announced the
| platform yet, go have a look at the arrivals. Becuase there's
| almost certianly an arrival at 9:03 from Maidenhead on platform
| 4. Guess what.
|
| >9. Railway employees are amazing
|
| Yeah, brits actually know this. It's only politicians and
| millionaire corporate execs that don't.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| > The idea of traveling first class is unheard off for brits.
|
| Bizarre and falsifiable claim. Who do you think is in there?
| All foreigners? I travel first class quite often if I'm booking
| in advance, or if I'm travelling on the weekend - and I'm not
| any kind of money bags foreigner. More space to work, or if you
| are bringing your family.
| ozim wrote:
| Wait till you see old crumbling 1950's communist era stations.
| These get less common nowadays as they are fully rebuilt.
|
| If you peeps could keep up Victorian era stations in decent
| shape imagine how much money was spent there.
| gambiting wrote:
| >>The idea of traveling first class is unheard off for brits.
|
| I mean, that's a weird statement to make. Every time I travel
| the 1st class is packed, and it's not packed with blog-writing
| foreign visitors. Also the 1st class upgrade can be very cheap
| - I've been down to London several times where the upgrade was
| PS40 on the day of the departure. Also Newcastle-Edinburgh on
| the Azuma LNER train in 1st class can be had for as little as
| PS40-50 total, did this several times too. Hardly an
| extravagant expense.
| scmbradley wrote:
| From the looks of it, this chap was travelling around in first
| class. Which would probably give a slightly different impression
| of train travel... I suspect he also wasn't travelling at peak
| times when trains are at their busiest and most unpleasant.
|
| To some extent, I agree that trains get a lot of criticism, and
| only some of it is deserved. But some of that criticism _is_ very
| deserved...
| Symbiote wrote:
| He mentions one first class journey.
|
| That's easily affordable by booking well in advance, I
| sometimes even did this as a student if it was PS5 more or so
| on a PS50 ticket.
| notahacker wrote:
| And travelling around with the sort of budget that can consider
| first class and a willingness to book tickets at suitable times
| (and comparing prices with international sleeper trains in the
| rest of Europe!) completely misses why British commuters paying
| 20%+ of their after tax income for an annual rail pass into
| London consider it expensive.
| blibble wrote:
| I doubt many people are paying 20%+ of net income to commute
| in
|
| you'd have to be on minimum wage and a reasonable distance
| out (in which case you might as well just work locally)
|
| 10% however I can believe
| notahacker wrote:
| Annual season ticket to London from Peterborough, at the
| edge of the commuter belt with relatively affordable
| housing is PS9,500 (including Tube)
|
| That's 20% of your after tax income if you're on _more than
| double_ the median UK salary
| blibble wrote:
| there's like 5 people who commute daily from Bristol too
|
| peterborough is on the border of super-commuter category
| chrisseaton wrote:
| Commuting from Peterborough would be absolutely insane.
| You can't convince me you can't find cheaper housing
| between London and Peterborough. That radius has got to
| be the majority of the UK's housing stock?
| Symbiote wrote:
| It's something people might do for a short period, or
| while looking for a better option.
|
| A friend commuted from Coventry to London for a year. She
| moved there with her husband, but had one more year to go
| on her PhD -- using the labs at the university was
| essential, but there was also plenty of work that could
| be done on the train.
| notahacker wrote:
| Peterborough is a commute of around an hour, was a
| designated New Town for precisely that reason and tops
| most people's list of least expensive London commuter
| towns to actually live in.
|
| Sure, you can pay a _mere_ PS4k per annum for your rail
| ticket coming in from somewhere like Stevenage, but then
| you have to find a mortgage lender that will let you
| borrow another PS100k (and won 't have a more exciting
| locality or fancier house to show for it)
| chrisseaton wrote:
| Are we talking about the same Peterborough? It's north of
| Birmingham?
| timthorn wrote:
| It's about the same latitude as Birmingham but due north
| of London so the distance is a lot less. The property in
| the fens around is affordable and often comes with land;
| it is absolutely a commuter station.
| notahacker wrote:
| Yes, we're talking about Peterborough, the city whose
| main attraction is fast trains to Kings Cross in 47
| minutes and slower ones around 1hr 10 combined with
| relatively affordable housing for southeast England. I
| take it you're not familiar with the town or the line...
| KJKingJ wrote:
| Or PS8,800 if you choose the "Great Northern and
| Thameslink" only one rather than the "Any Permitted" one.
| The former lets you travel on the same services as the
| latter as well as intercity services operated by LNER.
| They are somewhat quicker of course by virtue of not
| stopping anywhere after Peterborough (if they even stop
| there in the first place!), but as Thameslink services
| continue through London instead of terminating at King's
| Cross their slower time to get to King's Cross can pay
| off with a shorter overall journey by virtue of not
| having to change trains (for a number of people, this can
| also mean not needing to pay for the tube either -
| bringing it down to PS7,388 year).
|
| Now undoubtedly PS7,388 a year is a significant chunk of
| cash. But to be clear, Peterborough is very much on the
| edge of the commuter belt at 60 miles from London. A more
| typical 'commuter belt' origin on that route would be
| somewhere like Stevenage, Welwyn or Hatfield - which come
| in at PS4,224/year, PS3,300/year and PS3,076/year
| respectively.
| bombcar wrote:
| In the US at least that would get close to the cost of a
| small car with insurance and gas. However I assume the
| equivalent in UK would be more especially considering
| parking and intercity fees.
|
| Sounds like the commuter rail is pricing itself just
| below the cost of a car.
| notahacker wrote:
| Commuting into central London by car is the sort of thing
| that makes using the British railway system sound
| _appealing_
| edent wrote:
| Have a play with
| https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/Season-
| Calculator...
|
| My old commute into London was PS3,660 per year - standard
| class. Pretty close to 20% of my net at the time. Plenty of
| people do it because big cities are where the opportunities
| are.
| ghaff wrote:
| And that's not necessarily out of line. Where I live
| outside Boston which is within a (long--about 90 minute)
| commute into the city, commuter rail passes (including
| subway/bus) + parking at commuter rail station would run
| you about $6,000 per year.
| notahacker wrote:
| But the point of comparison most people are making isn't
| with the infamously public-transport-averse USA, it's
| with countries in Europe where rail travel is state run
| and heavily subsidised (and the house price savings from
| living further up the line are smaller)
| ghaff wrote:
| As of 2020 about 60% of MBTA costs were not covered by
| fares. I don't know if that's considered heavily
| subsidized by European standards or not.
| justincormack wrote:
| The UK has an explicit policy of not subsidizing commuter
| trips, only longer trips.
| blibble wrote:
| it's actually the exact opposite
|
| the commuter fares are regulated, none of the others are
| blibble wrote:
| I have been a London commuter for 15 years, with a PS5k
| season ticket
|
| quite why you'd subject yourself to that pain if you're
| on barely more than minimum wage I really don't know
| cirrus-clouds wrote:
| I've posted this before: a monthly season ticket comparison
| from 2017 for UK and Continental Europe. The price
| differences between UK and other countries are stark:
|
| - UK: Luton to London St. Pancras (35 miles) | Monthly
| season ticket cost: PS387
|
| - UK: Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Piccadilly (32
| miles) | Monthly season ticket cost: PS292
|
| - Germany: Dusseldorf to Cologne (28 miles) | Monthly
| season ticket cost: PS85
|
| - France: Mantes-la-Jolie to Paris (34 miles) | Monthly
| season ticket cost: PS61
|
| - Italy: Anzione to Rome (31 miles) | Monthly season ticket
| cost: PS61
|
| - Spain: Aranjuez to Madrid (31 miles) | Monthly season
| ticket cost: PS75
|
| Source is the TUC (2017): https://www.tuc.org.uk/news/uk-
| commuters-spend-6-times-much-...
|
| > UK workers on average salaries will spend 14% of their
| income on a monthly season ticket from Luton to London
| (PS387), or 11% from Liverpool to Manchester (PS292).
|
| > By contrast, similar commutes would cost passengers only
| 2% of their incomes in France, 3% in Germany and Italy, and
| 4% in Spain.
| blibble wrote:
| > UK workers on average salaries will spend 14% of their
| income on a monthly season ticket from Luton to London
| (PS387), or 11% from Liverpool to Manchester (PS292).
|
| these figures are deliberately misleading (well... it is
| the TUC)
|
| they're using the average UK salary
|
| not the average London or Manchester salary, which are
| both quite considerably higher (London is almost 100%
| more)
| bombcar wrote:
| The median should probably be used - the trains are much
| more likely to be used by people at the lower end of the
| wage scale. Charles may live in London and make ungodly
| income, but he's unlikely to be found on the train.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| > people at the lower end of the wage scale
|
| I don't think anyone commutes from the Home Counties to a
| job at Pret. People on lower income still live in London,
| just in not as great housing. People on the train are
| people who can afford the choice of a luxury of a home in
| a village or the countryside instead of London.
| pgorczak wrote:
| I checked the German rates recently and I wish that were
| still true. The ticket for going between Dusseldorf and
| Cologne train stations with intercity or regional trains
| is 175 GBP (146 if you book for the whole year). The one
| for regional trains only but including transport within
| the two cities is 269 (216) GBP.
| cirrus-clouds wrote:
| Thanks for the update. The Dusseldorf and Cologne route
| monthly price seems to have risen quite high.
|
| Here are the 2022 prices for the UK. The Liverpool to
| Manchester route price has dropped:
|
| - UK: Luton to London St. Pancras (35 miles) | Monthly
| ticket cost: PS387 (2017) | PS452.80 (2022)
|
| - UK: Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Piccadilly (32
| miles) | Monthly season ticket cost: PS292 (2017) |
| PS234.70 (2022)
| ljf wrote:
| Season ticket from not that far from Brighton is the best
| part of PS5k a year. My good friend who commutes from there
| earns PS40k before tax from his job in London. So I reckon
| some people pay 20 percent or more if they have a job they
| can only do in London, and for various reasons cannot
| living in London.
| daleharvey wrote:
| A funny quirk of the UK train system is that if you know what
| you are doing you can get first class upgrade for I think it
| was PS5 on some of the major routes like Edinburgh to London,
| The author talks about the price differences with advance
| tickets so it seems like they did their research and didnt
| necessarily travel expensively
| BiteCode_dev wrote:
| It was 17 years since I lived in the UK, so it may have changed a
| lot, but my experience with trains was not that great:
|
| - very expensive
|
| - not enough space, and too small rack areas for luggages
|
| - booking that crossed over several private train companies was
| complicated and unreliable
|
| The experience was much better in France.
|
| But as I said, it could have changed a lot.
| bakoo wrote:
| Having traveled through large parts of Europe by train before
| ever visiting the UK, I can only say that UK train travel isn't
| beginner friendly.
| case0x00 wrote:
| Having both traveled across the country and throughout Greater
| London on trains, it is actually really convenient. London is its
| own kind of beast with the tube/overground, but throughout the
| rest of the country its definitely pleasant. Going through London
| during peak hours, dealing with trains randomly stopping midway
| through a journey with a packed carriage, dealing with anti-
| social teens, or traveling in the middle of summer in the tube
| isn't super fun. But on the other hand, going through the
| countryside on a long distance train like going up to Scotland is
| great; I basically just watched the views go by for 4 or so
| hours.
|
| That all being said, I can totally see daily commuting by train
| being the absolutely most miserable thing.
| traceroute66 wrote:
| > London is its own kind of beast with the tube/overground
|
| To do well in London you really have to know the city (or at
| least the areas around your start/end points).
|
| Especially as you get towards the centre of London, there are
| lots of opportunities for "cheating" (i.e. getting out and
| walking is much more efficient than going to your actual
| destination station, or, worse, changing trains).
|
| If you want to go that extra step, memorising the tube map (or
| at least the central areas) also helps because then you can
| consider your re-routing options based on the actual live
| status of the tube (I say "actual status" because London
| Underground _ALWAYS_ lie about the actual status .... i.e. they
| will always declare "good service" until they really can't
| avoid admitting the truth, by which time the service is truly
| up the spout)
| Mordisquitos wrote:
| As someone with significant experience of using the rail networks
| in both the UK and Spain, I strongly agree with the last point
| regarding the hybrid reservation model. In addition, there's one
| further point which I don't think he mentions: the fact that in
| the UK you can buy a ticket at any station to go to any arbitrary
| station _A_ from any arbitrary station _B_ (notwithstanding the
| complexity of determining the best price).
|
| In Spain, by contrast, you simply cannot get a train ticket for
| the long distance network if you're at a commuter station, nor
| can you get a ticket to cover a route between two arbitrary
| stations if the route would combine long- and short-distance
| trains. You need to buy long distance and regional tickets
| separately, and cannot buy tickets for commuter services from
| outside the specific region. And they are all run by the same
| state-owned operator Renfe!
|
| Meanwhile, in the UK, you can go to Stalybridge on the outskirts
| of Manchester and ask the ticket office for a return ticket from
| Edinburgh Haymarket to Bury St Edmunds and they won't bat an
| eyelid even though it covers God knows how many potential
| operators.
|
| Note this is not in any way an example of the UK system being
| superior due to privatisation. The reason it works this well is
| because it already worked like that under British Rail.
| nicoburns wrote:
| > Meanwhile, in the UK, you can go to Stalybridge on the
| outskirts of Manchester and ask the ticket office for a return
| ticket from Edinburgh Haymarket to Bury St Edmunds and they
| won't bat an eyelid even though it covers God knows how many
| potential operators.
|
| You can even get a ticket to Ryde, Isle of Wight and get the
| Ferry ticket included too.
| lol768 wrote:
| > the fact that in the UK you can buy a ticket at any station
| to go to any arbitrary station A from any arbitrary station B
| (notwithstanding the complexity of determining the best price).
|
| _Mostly_ true, but not universally so - try Denton - >
| Manchester Piccadilly ;)
|
| </pedantry>
| Symbiote wrote:
| Denton to Manchester Piccadilly:
| http://traintimes.org.uk/denton/manchester/08:45/saturday --
| the train only runs twice a week, on Saturdays.
|
| Although going outside Northern Trains' area does indeed seem
| to prevent fares being calculated:
| http://traintimes.org.uk/denton/deal/08:45/2022-10-22
| nextos wrote:
| The problem is usually price and reliability.
|
| You can commute Segovia - Madrid Chamartin on a high speed
| train (95 km, 27 min, 200 euro per month). Reliability and
| price are top notch.
|
| A comparable commute is Cambridge - London (60 mi, 65 min,
| 500-600 pound per month depending on some details).
|
| I have used both, and there is no contest, sadly.
| petesergeant wrote:
| > the Caledonian Sleeper has to be one of the railway highlights
| of the UK
|
| ahh, I've really wanted to like it, but I've found it
| exceptionally uncomfortable each time I've used it, and also very
| expensive. I much prefer the sleeper trains in Thailand
|
| > Train travel in the UK can be highly scenic
|
| The UK really is very pretty. It's easy to forget when in
| countries with blockbuster scenery, but British countryside
| really is a joy to look at.
|
| EDIT: one day I'd like this to be an overnight Zeppelin route,
| but it's never going to happen
| gw99 wrote:
| The Caledonian sleeper is hell on earth. I did it once. The
| only worse experience I had was a rotten old YHA hostel in the
| 90s where I stayed in a bunk room with three people with bowel
| disorders. And it wasn't much worse.
| Symbiote wrote:
| What was wrong?
|
| I only used it twice, and it was fine. Only fine -- it's a
| train, not a 5 star hotel. But the bed was comfy enough, I
| slept OK, and the scenery in the morning was really nice.
| eynsham wrote:
| Was that on the new trains?
| gw99 wrote:
| Was 2019 so I expect so unless they replaced them since.
| eynsham wrote:
| Hm, the Mark 5 carriages were introduced in April and
| October 2019, so it could have been either just from the
| year.
| petesergeant wrote:
| I've done both, both were equally miserable tbh
| ghaff wrote:
| I did it in about 2019. I shared a sleeper with a friend.
| Yeah, the sleeper was tight and the dining car was crowded.
| But getting on after dinner in London and arriving in
| Edinburgh certainly beat flying IMO (as a tourist).
| renewiltord wrote:
| Thank you very much! I've always disliked it. Uncomfortable,
| bedding is spare, and overall not that much fun. And people
| often tell me I'm wrong. I've only ever been twice on it and
| disliked it both times. I take the day trains now instead.
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