[HN Gopher] So when did POP and IMAP become a "legacy protocol?"
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       So when did POP and IMAP become a "legacy protocol?"
        
       Author : signa11
       Score  : 39 points
       Date   : 2022-09-25 06:27 UTC (16 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (boston.conman.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (boston.conman.org)
        
       | jonathantf2 wrote:
       | You can still enable these protocols per user - Microsoft are
       | disabling these and Basic Authentication by default as most users
       | don't use them and it's the primary vector for sending emails
       | from compromised accounts. Any Microsoft tenant I set up or
       | manage already has policies to block anything but the Outlook
       | desktop or mobile clients with MFA on every account.
        
       | Avamander wrote:
       | I get the impression that the article's author didn't really read
       | the linked help page. It's basic auth that's getting deprecated,
       | due to being considered a legacy authentication protocol. For
       | good reasons, as described.
       | 
       | That aside, POP should really be considered legacy, it comes with
       | many downsides that hinder people's e-mail usage. IMAP is
       | definitely more functional, but has a successor - JMAP. So in
       | some sense, it'd not even be entirely wrong to migrate.
       | 
       | Lack of HTTPS on the author's site also adds a nice subtle
       | flavour to the blogpost.
        
         | mattgreenrocks wrote:
         | Shaming people for not having HTTPS on their blog is not a
         | great look. :/
        
           | Dylan16807 wrote:
           | Noting an amusing interaction with the context isn't shaming.
           | 
           | Though if someone _can_ set it up in less than 15 minutes,
           | and doesn 't, I reserve the right to snark. It's not a bad
           | look in cases like that.
        
           | chowells wrote:
           | I don't see the problem. HTTPS is basic internet hygiene.
           | It's no worse than telling people they should mind their body
           | odor when they're in a space with a lot of other people.
           | Possibly indelicate, but undoubtedly true.
        
             | hsbauauvhabzb wrote:
             | Exactly what risk does it have being on a low profile blog?
        
               | oddlama wrote:
               | I for example just wouldn't like anyone to be able to see
               | what data I exchange with any server, be it small profile
               | blog or a login page.
        
           | seanp2k2 wrote:
           | What traffic between a blog without user auth for comments
           | needs to be encrypted? Why? I understand that Let's Encrypt
           | exists and it's "easy" to set up (for people with root access
           | to the system hosting their site + a decent level of
           | technical sysadmin proficiency)
        
         | Angostura wrote:
         | > That aside, POP should really be considered legacy, it comes
         | with many downsides that hinder people's e-mail usage.
         | 
         | And one big advantage - it actually allows you retrieve and
         | store e-mail locally - irrespective of any server allocation.
        
           | loloquwowndueo wrote:
           | Um what? Nothing in IMAP prevents you from doing the same.
           | Just because most client implementations assume you want to
           | keep your mail on the server by default, does not mean the
           | protocol doesn't account for the other possibility.
           | 
           | And to be fair, configuring most clients to retrieve and then
           | delete, or keep a local copy in addition to the server one,
           | is not difficult at all - these options are not hidden or
           | anything.
        
           | deaddodo wrote:
           | So does IMAP? Most clients only cache headers because it's
           | faster and most devices are always-connected; but you can
           | certainly locally download the entirety of your IMAP
           | contents.
           | 
           | Considering you have to download the entirety of the mail
           | contents to read it anyways, I have no idea what makes you
           | think this is an impossibility.
        
           | josephg wrote:
           | JMAP works great for this too. It's a shame JMAP isn't widely
           | implemented - it's a lovely standard.
        
       | melony wrote:
       | What about Macrosoft Exchange?
        
       | afrcnc wrote:
       | POP, not IMAP
        
       | achillean wrote:
       | The protocols are seeing a decline in deployments but they're
       | still very popular. See the below for a trend of the protocol
       | over the past 5 years:
       | 
       | https://imgur.com/a/uIAiM9B
        
       | a-dub wrote:
       | you have to jump through hoops to do basic auth (even over SSL)
       | for IMAP/pop with gmail as well. (this has been true for some
       | years now)
       | 
       | on one level, it's sad to see the open protocols go... on the
       | other, google passwords are a big deal.
        
       | belorn wrote:
       | Some context: Microsoft has disabled the use of alternative email
       | providers in Windows' built-in email app since Windows 11, and
       | for 365 users, unless you got one of the more expensive accounts
       | intended for large companies, then no custom domain names for
       | your email unless you use Godaddy as registrar. They have an
       | exclusivity deal with Microsoft.
       | 
       | So sure, one can look at this from an authentication perspective,
       | or simply look at this as one in a line of steps in a specific
       | direction.
        
         | jonathantf2 wrote:
         | This is completely false, I've just installed the Mail app on
         | my Windows 11 machine, first thing it asks you is what e-mail
         | provider you use [0] and there are options for iCloud, Yahoo
         | and a generic IMAP setup along with the Microsoft offerings.
         | 
         | [0] https://files.catbox.moe/ljil4h.png
        
       | ljlds3da wrote:
       | Their plan is to remove old text-only protocols, and force to use
       | XAUTH or similar protocols that requires use of a web browser, so
       | they can spy you with cookies and more metadata. Both Google and
       | Microsoft are announced this movement.
        
         | advisedwang wrote:
         | They're removing plain text auth because:
         | 
         | a) password doesn't support 2nd factor.
         | 
         | b) Most configurations keep password is on disk somewhere,
         | often in plaintext.
         | 
         | c) User configurations break on password rotation.
         | 
         | Your tracking theory doesn't really hold up a) they know
         | exactly who you are on your email client anyway as you log in
         | and b) most users are logged in to their google/microsoft
         | account anyway because of o375/workspace/youtube.
        
       | pessimizer wrote:
       | Standards are the enemy because they allow you to use alternate
       | client implementations.
        
         | saagarjha wrote:
         | And enterprises _hate_ this.
        
       | okasaki wrote:
       | > I do have to wonder how long until Google decides that only
       | certain clients can connect with Gmail?
       | 
       | Already the case on mobile:
       | 
       | > If you use the Play store or GitHub version of FairEmail, you
       | can use the quick setup wizard to easily setup a Gmail account
       | and identity. The Gmail quick setup wizard is not available for
       | third party builds, like the F-Droid build because Google
       | approved the use of OAuth for official builds only. OAuth is also
       | not available on devices without Google services, such as recent
       | Huawei devices, in which case selecting an account will fail.
       | 
       | https://github.com/M66B/FairEmail/blob/master/FAQ.md#user-co...
        
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       (page generated 2022-09-25 23:00 UTC)