[HN Gopher] The Ciao System
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The Ciao System
Author : Tomte
Score : 70 points
Date : 2022-09-23 06:37 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (ciao-lang.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (ciao-lang.org)
| Jtsummers wrote:
| Because of the tired, reflexive complaints of "Show me the
| code!", people apparently aren't capable of realizing that:
|
| 1. This is the reference manual itself.
|
| 2. It's not the homepage.
|
| Here's the homepage which has what the people who can't figure
| out those two things want:
|
| https://ciao-lang.org/ - including code and an interactive
| prompt.
| jfmc wrote:
| One of the co-authors here. Thank you for these helpful
| clarifications!
| brazzy wrote:
| 1. How should people be "capable of realizing that" when the
| document itself fails to direct them?
|
| 2. How is it excusable for a reference manual to contain no
| code examples whatsoever?
|
| Seriously, this shows mistakes of the document authors and the
| person who linked to it, not the readers.
|
| A language reference where the first thing that looks like
| code... tells people how to cite it academically. How very
| ivory tower...
| Jtsummers wrote:
| It calls itself a reference manual, the URL isn't for the
| home page, and at the top of this page, under where it says
| "Reference Manual", it includes a link to the homepage.
|
| It also does include code. But it starts with how to install
| and use it. Part I starts off with interactive use:
| https://ciao-
| lang.org/ciao/build/doc/ciao.html/toplevel_doc....
|
| Part I also has this section which shows use of the compiler
| and a code example: https://ciao-
| lang.org/ciao/build/doc/ciao.html/ciaoc.html
|
| This didn't take 20 minutes or 20 clicks to find.
| brazzy wrote:
| > It calls itself a reference manual
|
| And reference manuals are not allowed to be useful or
| friendly to newcomers, despite having an introduction
| section that explains in great detail things that anyone
| except a newcomer would already know?
|
| > the URL isn't for the home page
|
| Yes, that's on the submitter, not the authors.
|
| > and at the top it includes a link to the homepage.
|
| Yes - very deemphasized, and without any indication who
| should visit it and why.
|
| > It also does include code.
|
| Yeah, technically syntax definitions are code, I guess. But
| I couldn't find anything more than that in several minutes
| of searching, and it's clear I'm not the only one.
| Jtsummers wrote:
| > Yeah, technically syntax definitions are code
|
| No, it actually has code examples. Follow the links from
| my previous comment.
| fbn79 wrote:
| Marginally related. "Ciao" word is in it origins very submissive.
| It was meaning "I'm your slave"
| [deleted]
| aliqot wrote:
| Hit me with a block of demo syntax and a few bulletpoints. I ran
| away screaming from this page. It's the opposite of what I'd want
| in a language announcement page.
| rscho wrote:
| Ciao is an academic prolog system, not a JavaScript
| framework...
| artemonster wrote:
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| philzook wrote:
| Ciao is a prolog.
|
| It is not a new project (I'm saying this as a good thing), for
| example the reference paper for the system is from 2012
| http://cliplab.org/papers/hermenegildo11:ciao-design-tplp.pd...
| It is still developed. As others have mentioned, the actual
| homepage is here https://ciao-lang.org/. This is currently a link
| to the reference manual (which I'm shocked that people are having
| such a negative reaction to. Reference manuals are rare and
| good).
|
| It is also quite neat that ciao has led the charge towards a lot
| of recent energy in the prolog community to getting WASM builds
| working via emscripten. https://ciao-lang.org/playground/
|
| One of the most interesting unique features of Ciao prolog is
| it's assertion language and static analyzer. https://ciao-
| lang.org/ciao/build/doc/ciao.html/AssrtLang.htm...
|
| Some other prolog systems now available to run on wasm are SWI-
| prolog (which unscientifically I think has the largest user
| community of a prolog) https://swi-prolog.discourse.group/t/swi-
| prolog-in-the-brows... and Trealla
| https://github.com/guregu/trealla-js. Tau prolog is a javascript
| native prolog. http://tau-prolog.org/
|
| For more on prolog generally, this is an excellent resource
| https://www.metalevel.at/prolog
| junon wrote:
| I dug through no less than 20 links through pages and couldn't
| find a single example of code.
|
| Why would I ever use this seemingly bloated project over Prolog
| or Why3 et al, especially since I have no idea what it _does_ or
| how it looks?
| bmacho wrote:
| https://ciao-lang.org/documentation.html here in the "Some
| Tutorials and Presentations" section you can find some
| tutorials and presentations
| aarroyoc wrote:
| Well, it IS Prolog. Ciao conforms to the ISO Prolog standard.
| It adds a lot of things through a preprocessor though.
| Avshalom wrote:
| It is a prolog but I'll point out that it's got some fun syntax
| extensions http://ciao-
| lang.org/ciao/build/doc/ciao.html/fsyntax_doc.ht... that take
| care of some of the classic prolog syntax gripes.
| rmanolis wrote:
| Hi!! I like it and I am eager to learn it! However, one thing
| that I dislike most in a programming language is the slow
| compilation. How long it takes to compile more than 10.000 lines
| of code?
|
| I find prolog very intriguing and for sure I will check it out
| tomorrow!
| MikeYasnev007 wrote:
| aarroyoc wrote:
| The real homepage https://ciao-lang.org/ has code examples.
| Spoiler alert: it is Prolog
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