[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Tips to relearn how to care about my job?
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       Ask HN: Tips to relearn how to care about my job?
        
       The reality is I can't quit my job given I'm young and live in
       California. I got a high paying job at a recognizable tech company,
       but plagued with exhaustion and lack of motivation, which is
       killing me daily life. Anything you guys have done to dig out of a
       rut?  I'm taking an electrical engineering class and exploitation
       security class online. I'm constantly learning, which I love. I
       work on a product which just clones other similar products with a
       slightly better price point, so it's hard to really care about the
       goal, but it would be nice to shift that mentality slightly.  I
       think long term I want to work on low level systems, but my current
       mental state is affecting my ability to learn effectively. Maybe
       therapy could help.
        
       Author : whitepirate20
       Score  : 54 points
       Date   : 2022-09-23 17:04 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
       | uptownfunk wrote:
       | I would humbly caution against looking to a job to fill an
       | emotional void or you will be left feeling empty. It may help to
       | find some friends, connect with family if possible, engage in
       | activities which nurture the emotional self (caring for plants,
       | animals, other human beings). All the best
        
       | jollybean wrote:
       | The value you add is not a function of how cool or curious your
       | work is. Try to derive some satisfaction out of the fact you are
       | doing something needed and useful and that your 'micro
       | contributions' matter probably to a lot of people.
       | 
       | Also, take a vacation for a bit it helps to add perspective.
       | 
       | Finally, if you get thrust into a crap situation, you'll learn to
       | count your blessings quickly.
        
       | throw149102 wrote:
       | A short list of things worth thinking about trying, listed in no
       | specific order:
       | 
       | 1. Find a project at work that you are interested in, and move
       | over to that.
       | 
       | 2. Join a completely different team/org at work.
       | 
       | 3. Join a completely different company, doing different types of
       | work.
       | 
       | 4. Join a socially responsible company, doing charity work.
       | 
       | 5. Quit your job, and take a 6 month break. Don't think about
       | work during that break.
       | 
       | 6. Go see a therapist for at least a couple of months.
       | 
       | 7. Improve your diet and exercise routines, potentially with
       | professional help from a trainer or a nutritionist.
       | 
       | 8. Begin a treatment plan using drugs w/ the approval of a
       | psychiatrist.
       | 
       | 9. Begin a treatment plan using drugs without the approval of a
       | psychiatrist, YOLO mushrooms time.
       | 
       | 10. Leave your job, and move into an _entirely different
       | industry_. Go start a farm.
       | 
       | 11. Take a trip to a country with a radically different way of
       | life, to gather some perspective.
       | 
       | 12. Take some daily time to do something away from a computer -
       | like join a pottery club.
       | 
       | 13. Read some philosophy books on the meaning of life. Do some
       | introspection based on what you read.
       | 
       | 14. Pick a goal at work, like getting a promotion, and figure out
       | what you need to do that.
       | 
       | I want to also offer a quick theory of burnout. Burnout is caused
       | by 3 different sources:
       | 
       | 1. Plain old overwork. Too much on-call is not good for your
       | soul.
       | 
       | 2. Mission doubt. If you begin to doubt the reason why you are
       | doing something, you will get burned out.
       | 
       | 3. Broken steering. If you feel that nothing you do actually is
       | changing the situation, that you're unable to make meaningful
       | progress in your work.
       | 
       | What I want to stress about this theory is that _you don 't need
       | all three to have burnout_. Some people think that taking an
       | extended vacation is the cure to all burnout, because their
       | theory only accounts for source 1, when you can have burnout from
       | a job where you only work 20 hours a week. You might wish to
       | first try and figure out which of these 3 sources seem like the
       | cause for your burnout, and then which of the 14 options seem
       | most appealing to you.
        
       | Wojtkie wrote:
       | Take a vacation, seriously.
       | 
       | I took 2 weeks off earlier this year and it did wonders for my
       | motivation and accruing burnout.
        
         | deanmoriarty wrote:
         | What if one takes a vacation of two weeks and, after having had
         | a wonderful and relaxing time, comes back even more burned out
         | about their work situation, and the question "wtf am I spending
         | my finite time like this?" comes up in their head even more
         | frequently than before? Asking for a friend.
        
       | goldenchrome wrote:
       | Your life is full of abundance but it has no meaning. Figure out
       | how to create meaning or else you'll continuously burnout as
       | you're working for no reason. For me it was deciding to have a
       | kid, but that is specific to my life circumstances.
       | 
       | What I've come to believe is that responsibility is the meaning
       | of life, so try adding responsibility to your life.
        
       | twblalock wrote:
       | If you got a job at a high-status tech company in California, you
       | can get another job at a different tech company. It's like
       | complaining you got into Harvard and other Ivy League schools
       | wouldn't want you.
       | 
       | If you want to work on something different, you can only do that
       | by getting a different job, either in the same company or at
       | another one. If you stay where you are, you know you won't get
       | what you want, so you need to make a move.
        
         | s1k3 wrote:
         | You're missing the point. He's unmotivated despite where he is.
         | He's trying to figure out why, not simply to walk over to the
         | greener grass.
        
           | elliottkember wrote:
           | > I work on a product which just clones other similar
           | products with a slightly better price point, so it's hard to
           | really care about the goal
           | 
           | I think this sums it up perfectly. Try another job first.
           | There's a saying - "a change is as good as a rest". Worth
           | trying!
        
           | twblalock wrote:
           | No, I did not miss the point.
           | 
           | I have never, in my entire life, seen someone who is unhappy
           | with their job somehow find happiness without changing jobs.
           | And it's not good enough to find hobbies or devote time to
           | family -- if you don't like your job, you don't like 1/3 of
           | your waking hours and you should really do something about
           | that. If the job is the source of unhappiness, staying in the
           | job will perpetuate the problem.
           | 
           | Furthermore, the OP is in a very privileged position and has
           | many options available, as does anyone else who works at a
           | large California tech company.
        
             | throw149102 wrote:
             | Changing jobs is (likely) necessary but not sufficient. For
             | example, if OP works a front-end job at Meta and switches
             | to a front-end job at Google, that's unlikely to make them
             | motivated. I don't think you're "missing the point", but I
             | do feel that your answer is very incomplete.
        
               | twblalock wrote:
               | The OP stated a desire to work on low-level systems,
               | which is different from their current job, and my advice
               | was given in that context.
        
             | alecbz wrote:
             | > If the job is the source of unhappiness, staying in the
             | job will perpetuate the problem.
             | 
             | There's a bit of a leap here -- you're made unhappy by your
             | job, but it's harder to say how much of the cause is the
             | job vs. you. The relevant question is really just whether
             | taking your current mind and putting it in a different job
             | will make everything better, or if the issue is, at least
             | partially, how you're relating to your job.
             | 
             | I say this as someone who's had a string of jobs where I'm
             | unhappy for ~similar reasons. Each was a bit different, but
             | the consistent undertone of unhappiness makes me think that
             | it might be higher leverage for me to examine my
             | relationship with my job instead of just hoping over and
             | over again. I suspect there's ways of thinking about my job
             | that I'm "carrying" with me, and addressing those things
             | will do more for my happiness.
        
       | notenoughbeans wrote:
       | Lots of good advice has been posted already.
       | 
       | > I work on a product which just clones other similar products
       | with a slightly better price point, so it's hard to really care
       | about the goal, but it would be nice to shift that mentality
       | slightly.
       | 
       | Building something that has already been built at a better price
       | point can be an interesting challenge. Obviously there's only so
       | much control you have over the project, but learning how to
       | deliver solid software on a budget is a super valuable skill. If
       | you want to shift your mentality I would suggest that you
       | approach it as it's own learning process.
        
       | 71a54xd wrote:
       | I've had a similar problem post covid - although I never had
       | covid the after-effects of isolation have been somewhat hard to
       | work through.
       | 
       | Surely others have dealt with this - but I actually did pretty
       | okay throughout the lockdown in my okay sized room in NYC. My
       | roommates paid rent but left for other states so I basically had
       | an apt to myself. I got lucky enough to have a job as well -
       | however, this instilled an odd kind of lazy malaise.
       | 
       | I've since left new york since everything worth doing in tech is
       | remote - separated where I sleep and work etc. But it seems like
       | my ability to properly get focused or excited about my work has
       | completely atrophied.
       | 
       |  _My first step in solving this was using an app to track tasks
       | that give me the most and take the most - so different kinds of
       | "work" and things that "waste" time (youtube, web browsing etc)._
       | 
       | I haven't found a solution but it's troubling to say the least. I
       | initially was worried about not progressing as fast as I wanted
       | to - now I've identified the issue is I rarely complete more than
       | 3hrs of deep work per day. Or 6hrs of doing anything.
       | 
       | However, I've sort of accepted I'm an introvert - stopped trying
       | to be "cool" for the right reasons and idk I have decent savings
       | which feels good.
        
       | softfalcon wrote:
       | > Maybe therapy could help.
       | 
       | Ding ding ding! We have a winner!
       | 
       | You're beginning that existential question of what matters to you
       | and what you want to spend your time doing. As soon as you do
       | that, uncertainty will creep into far more than just your work.
       | 
       | You chased the golden dream, now you "have it" and are near the
       | top given your nice high salary. You're not at the absolute tippy
       | top, but you're closer to the summit than at the base of the
       | mountain.
       | 
       | Congrats, your Maslow's hierarchy of needs is mostly met and now
       | you're getting mildly philosophical about your life and work.
       | 
       | It sounds like you're in a state where you've learned to grind.
       | It paid off, now you're trying to keep up the pace by continuing
       | learning to eek out that last bit of performance from your engine
       | as you speed along.
       | 
       | I was there too. Voracious learning felt like I was building,
       | finding my niche, but I was bored with what I did at work.
       | 
       | The solution is to go to therapy and discuss this problem
       | directly with them. Explain how what you have put all this time
       | into is now boring you, you feel the need to change, but are
       | unsure how to. You want to stay motivated.
       | 
       | Get ready for a big change. You're about to uncover topics like
       | burn out, depression, expectations for life, building meaningful
       | and fulfilling relationships... this is the meaning of life
       | stuff.
       | 
       | Possibly, you're putting too much weight of importance on your
       | job. You may be letting it define you.
       | 
       | You'll need to process all this and more. It's going to take
       | time. I suggest therapy so you don't end up in the deep pot holes
       | I did before I decided to eventually start talking to someone
       | about the uncertainties in my life and how I handle them.
       | 
       | Good luck, this is a big topic you've just opened up for
       | yourself.
        
         | kayodelycaon wrote:
         | I want to second this. Therapy is a great way to learn how to
         | navigate personal change.
         | 
         | There is no shame in this. Think of it as hiring a personal
         | trainer. Like everything else, self-improvement is a skill. :)
        
         | digianarchist wrote:
         | >Possibly, you're putting too much weight of importance on your
         | job. You may be letting it define you.
         | 
         | Exactly.
         | 
         | I would caution in response to the original question that the
         | answer might be that you shouldn't relearn to care about your
         | job, and maybe just continue to treat it like a job.
         | 
         | OP if you're with Kaiser then you can self-refer to their
         | psychiatric care unit and they'll give you 7 sessions with a
         | councilor. From there you can decide what you want to do.
         | There's a round of testing for ADHD, depression and anxiety.
         | I'm going through this myself now.
        
       | vellum wrote:
       | You don't have to care about your job. Most people have about
       | four good hours of work in them. Just do your four hours, and
       | take the rest of the day off. No job is worth burnout.
        
         | PragmaticPulp wrote:
         | > You don't have to care about your job. Most people have about
         | four good hours of work in them. Just do your four hours, and
         | take the rest of the day off.
         | 
         | OP says they're young and recently got a high-paying job at a
         | recognizable California company. This isn't good advice.
         | 
         | Working half days every day may work for certain senior people
         | in slow moving parts of a company. However, getting a high-
         | paying job in California at a big-tech company and then putting
         | in half days will get you PIPed and removed really quick.
        
         | fasterik wrote:
         | Or find something to work on that you actually care about. I
         | don't have any trouble working on something for 12 hours a day
         | when I find it intrinsically interesting and meaningful.
        
           | gw99 wrote:
           | Watch that. Doesn't always work. Not everyone you will work
           | with loves what you love or gives as much of a shit about it
           | as you do. And it's painful watching them fuck it up day
           | after day after day. Eventually you end up disliking it by
           | proxy.
           | 
           | I'm also a weirdo. I intensely dislike what I do for a living
           | but I'm good at it and the money is pretty excellent. And I
           | hate it enough to want to do a quality job of it and automate
           | as much of it as possible so I can do something more
           | interesting with my time instead.
        
             | pedrosorio wrote:
             | > And I hate it enough to want to do a quality job of it
             | and automate as much of it as possible so I can do
             | something more interesting with my time instead.
             | 
             | How does this work in a full time job where you hate what
             | you are doing? When you automate something, you're not
             | freeing up time to do whatever you want. You're just
             | freeing up time to do more of what you don't like, isn't
             | it?
        
               | BlargMcLarg wrote:
               | Only if you make the automation public. Plenty of data
               | input guys didn't mention they automated their job and
               | raked in a full FTE working a few hours a week.
               | 
               | Doesn't work as well these days since most knowledge gets
               | shared and a lot of devs are too eager to reveal their
               | cards.
        
               | gw99 wrote:
               | No comment :)
        
           | 3qz wrote:
           | Terrible advice when he lives in a high cost of living area.
        
           | softfalcon wrote:
           | No matter how much you love it, 12 hours a day will never be
           | healthy long term. This is what pro level athletes do to
           | compete and get into the Olympics and they regularly burn out
           | after a few years of it.
           | 
           | I strongly urge you to take the time to establish a long term
           | pace that will allow you to regularly decompress from work,
           | learning, and stress every single day as well as whole "step-
           | away" moments for weeks at a time to allow you to completely
           | disconnect at regular intervals throughout the year.
           | 
           | Based on your description, you're young and your youth is
           | powering this ability to keep going. Even if you take perfect
           | care of your health, this energy will decline with age, more
           | health complications will arise merely by being older, life
           | will put more expectations on you, or conversely, a lack of
           | life due to grinding too hard professionally will bring
           | depression and loneliness.
           | 
           | Think carefully about how maintainable your perspective on
           | work and life is for what will be at minimum the next 20
           | years.
           | 
           | Stay safe and take care of yourself.
        
             | badpun wrote:
             | > This is what pro level athletes do to compete and get
             | into the Olympics and they regularly burn out after a few
             | years of it.
             | 
             | I believe this is a myth. Excercising for 12 hours a day is
             | not the best strategy to get your body and mind in shape
             | for the Olympics. Internet sources claim that Olympics
             | athletes train 5-7 hours a day. Pro football (soccer)
             | players at top level, with absolutely insane amount of
             | competition constantly breathing down their necks, usually
             | train from morning till lunch and that's it. Doing more
             | would only do harm.
        
               | softfalcon wrote:
               | Oh I know it's a myth, you're not wrong. I was simply
               | using the myth we keep hearing as a foil for how bad an
               | idea this is. It's a perfect example of imbalance that
               | results in burn out.
               | 
               | I do appreciate you pointing out that this is a myth.
               | It's important people don't think this is somehow
               | manageable, even for "just a few years".
               | 
               | All that being said... you're still going to keep hearing
               | it on the news, in books, from movie stars, etc...
        
             | fasterik wrote:
             | I agree that pacing and breaks are important and I didn't
             | mean to imply otherwise. I was offering an alternative
             | perspective to the claim that "most people only have 4
             | hours of work in them". I just don't think that's true for
             | people who are working on things they find intrinsically
             | motivating. I'm also skeptical of the claim that that 60
             | hours a week isn't healthy long term, assuming you have the
             | right habits in place. But I'll admit that I haven't really
             | looked into the research on this, if it exists.
        
           | badpun wrote:
           | Most people don't care about anything that strongly. Among
           | those who do, most of them care about things that others
           | won't pay for (e.g. obscure open source project, or making a
           | hobbit-like garden etc.).
        
       | jameal wrote:
       | I have a couple of suggestions that you might be interested in.
       | First, set aside regular time to go outside and walk. If you can
       | do it in a park or other natural environment, even better. A
       | daily walking routine did wonders for my mental health.
       | 
       | Then, try talking out loud to yourself as you walk. Sounds
       | strange, I know, but it can actually be really fun and
       | elucidating. For me, it was a helpful exercise to clarify my
       | values, goals, and find more creative ideas for moving forward.
       | You can put in some earbuds and those around you will be none the
       | wiser.
       | 
       | Someone else mentioned this, and I will echo it too. Be
       | compassionate with yourself. It will take some time to find your
       | way out of your rut. It's completely normal and from this you
       | will grow stronger and more resilient.
       | 
       | You mentioned therapy, which is a great and I think everyone
       | should try at least once. I would also recommend coaching. The
       | difference is that therapy deals more with trauma and healing
       | where coaching deals more with a person's present situation and
       | guiding them to a more desirable future. In a coaching
       | relationship, you are seen as the expert of your life, and the
       | coach simply acts as a partner to help you discover the answers
       | that are already within you. Disclaimer: I am a coach by training
       | so I am biased, but I've worked with a couple different coaches
       | myself and have found it to be incredibly powerful.
        
       | rr888 wrote:
       | Get unexpectedly laid off into a bad job market. Seriously makes
       | you a better employee that really values a good job. Its been 8
       | years already and I still try much harder to delivery good work
       | and please the boss.
        
       | OneLeggedCat wrote:
       | Peter: "So I was sitting in my cubicle today, and I realized ever
       | since I started working, every single day of my life has been
       | worse than the day before it... So that means that every single
       | day that you see me, that's on the worst day of my life."
       | 
       | Therapist: "What about today? Is today the worst day of your
       | life?"
       | 
       | P: "Yeah."
       | 
       | T: "Wow. That's messed up... I'm sorry. Go on."
       | 
       | P: "Is there any way that you could sort of just zonk me out so
       | that, like, I don't know that I'm at work... in here? Could I
       | come home and think that I've been fishing all day, or
       | something?"
       | 
       | T: "That's really not what I do, Peter"
        
       | mxuribe wrote:
       | Firstly, YOU ARE NOT ALONE! Beyond the Great Recession and the
       | Great Resignation, i firmly believe i'm beginning to see the
       | Great Malaise everywhere! Its not just here about jobs/careers,
       | but many places that i look, and with many people that i speak.
       | 
       | With that out of the way, and at risk to your cognitive load (by
       | adding something else to your life), have you considered taking
       | up a hobby/interest that is unrelated to your profession, and
       | unrelated to the EE and Sec. learning that you're doing? It might
       | sound silly, but maybe you need to activate other parts of your
       | brain - hence a hobby might do the trick. Alternatively, if you
       | want to dive into your learning path...have you considered
       | contributing your time or code, etc. to an open source project
       | that is aligned with your security learning? This could get you
       | some real-world experience in security, enable you to connect
       | with a network of people for future (hopefully more fulfilling)
       | job, help you feel good about donating time to some open source
       | goodness...and ultimately distract you from your dayjob...at
       | least until you're ready to jump. ;-)
        
         | UncleOxidant wrote:
         | > i firmly believe i'm beginning to see the Great Malaise
         | everywhere!
         | 
         | Indeed. It's in the air. I think we underestimate the trauma of
         | living through a pandemic for the last couple of years. There's
         | a collective, societal trauma that we're witnessing. It's
         | causing people to rethink what they value as well as leading to
         | upheaval in various spheres (personal, cultural, political...)
        
       | dochtman wrote:
       | Find a job with similar pay but a goal you care (substantially)
       | more about?
        
       | duped wrote:
       | This is called burnout, you don't fix it by doing _more_ work -
       | including self study.
       | 
       | Take a long weekend every few weeks, go to yosemite. Or fly to
       | vegas and cut loose. Pick up golf or pickleball or whatever. Make
       | some friends who aren't engineers and live a bit.
       | 
       | Then you can come back to work with a fresh mind and care enough
       | to get your shit done well.
        
         | popularonion wrote:
         | I started doing those random weekend trips to cope with my
         | burnout and became of those SWEs living paycheck to paycheck
         | making $250K.
         | 
         | It can also isolate you from normie friends/family who
         | obviously can't afford to travel like this.
         | 
         | If you're 20-something and sick of it all and you've never been
         | to Vegas, hell yeah you should go, I'm just saying don't
         | sleepwalk into bad habits.
        
         | enos_feedler wrote:
         | And when you do come back with the fresh mind, have a beginners
         | mind. Work very hard to not fall into your old patterns.
         | Approach things as new. Acting like a beginner but drawing on
         | your old experience in a controlled way is very powerful
        
         | shafyy wrote:
         | It's not necessarily burn out. I mean, it's possible that the
         | job's just boring. Some people can handle boring jobs better
         | than others, mentally.
        
           | alecbz wrote:
           | That's still burnout, no?
           | 
           | I think some people view burnout as "being overworked to
           | exhaustion" but I think that's just one form of it.
        
       | jacksonkmarley wrote:
       | It is probably pretty dependent on your particular work
       | situation, but if you have some freedom in your daily tasks, you
       | could try inserting more interesting small things in amongst the
       | grind.
       | 
       | For example in my job (quite dull) I automated some data
       | collection, stored the data in a database, created a web app to
       | present data from the database, ran it all on a server etc. None
       | of it was anything my boss would have given me as an explicit
       | task, but it was useful stuff that I could make a case for. It
       | was also stuff I hadn't done before and was interested in
       | learning how to do.
       | 
       | Granted, the weight of crappy project management decisions
       | eventually became too much for me to put up with, but for a while
       | I quite liked going in to work and setting up my mini-projects.
        
       | zaptheimpaler wrote:
       | Here's some good advice on what not to do, which you might be
       | doing:
       | 
       | https://experimentalhistory.substack.com/p/excuse-me-but-why...
       | 
       | Your problem is not that your "mental state is affecting your
       | ability to learn effectively" as if you were a robot created only
       | to work and learn. Look at yourself with some dignity and
       | compassion.
        
       | tunesmith wrote:
       | I think you need to answer what it is you like about your
       | _career_ , independent of your job. Like, I just simply love
       | understanding problems to the point that I can identify a
       | solution that makes it easier for everyone to understand. That's
       | independent of my job, but I get good-enough satisfaction if my
       | job allows me to scratch that itch.
       | 
       | If your job isn't allowing you to express what you love about
       | your career, then you have something to go on in terms of
       | changing your job. But if you're finding you actually don't love
       | your career, that that would imply a different path entirely.
        
       | JustSomeNobody wrote:
       | Don't.
       | 
       | Care about yourself.
       | 
       | If you're working on things that interest you and with people you
       | enjoy interacting with and you're treated well by your employer,
       | then your job with take care of itself.
       | 
       | If you're not, find a new job until that list is satisfied.
        
       | ncr100 wrote:
       | This (posting) is therapy .. and you can also pay for better
       | quality / holistic therapy.
       | 
       | Observe your situation (gather details of the 'problem') & you'll
       | likely naturally make some headway at resolving your
       | difficulties.
       | 
       | Example:
       | 
       | Why did you take the job in the first place?
       | 
       | What excites you about the current job?
       | 
       | There are many reasons to be de-motivated. Something wrong about
       | the job. Something about you. Something that's unconscious, for
       | you, it seems currently. Focus on observing the flow:
       | 
       | * your sensory experience ("my butt really hurts today sitting in
       | this chair")
       | 
       | * => thoughts ("this job requires that I spend a lot of time
       | backing-up what I'm working on with evidence of progress, for the
       | sake of my Manager's approval, and for my Manager's own upward-
       | mobility")
       | 
       | * => evoked memories ("when I was young, Rob took my pencil and
       | claimed I had stolen it from him in the first place")
       | 
       | * => feelings ("this job offends me")
       | 
       | * => and follow-on thoughts ("to be successful at this job I'm
       | going to have to become a different person than who I am now, how
       | am I going to do that, do I want to do that. I really prefer that
       | people just trust me, and not require proof and evidence that I
       | am Good at my Job.").
       | 
       | My mind often has a general Sense > Thought > Memory > Feeling
       | flow in my experience.
        
       | jmckib wrote:
       | Have you considered working for a company with goals that you
       | find more meaningful? For me working in biotech has provided
       | that, but you need to find what's right for you. Don't spend your
       | life working on "clones of other similar products with a slightly
       | better price point". Your words!
       | 
       | Therapy probably couldn't hurt either, but you should make your
       | career move soon if you can. Burnout takes a long time to recover
       | from. Personally I burned out from working long hours and it took
       | years to recover from, even though I was enjoying my work and
       | found it meaningful. Don't overwork yourself.
        
       | artificialLimbs wrote:
       | 1.)Have kids.
       | 
       | 2.)Work at doing something else, since you clearly don't like
       | what you're doing. Looks like you're already doing that, so just
       | keep going. Could your physical activity and health be what's
       | affecting your mental state?
        
         | rychco wrote:
         | I don't mean to be rude, but 'Have kids' may be one of the
         | single worst pieces of advice you could give someone who is
         | "plagued with exhaustion and lack of motivation".
        
           | gardenhedge wrote:
           | Is that backed up by evidence?
        
           | systemvoltage wrote:
           | Having a responsibility of kids is a good motivator and
           | releases seratonin/dopamine through parent-child bonding.
        
           | alex_suzuki wrote:
           | I agree. It is completely unfathomable to me how someone
           | could give this advice.
           | 
           | Similarly ridiculous, couples going through a relationship
           | crisis often receive this kind of "advice" to "fix their
           | relationship".
           | 
           | The only people who might think this is a great idea probably
           | don't have kids...
        
         | TheGigaChad wrote:
        
       | hollowcelery wrote:
       | As other commenters have said, this could be burnout. In my
       | personal experience, improving from burnout requires two things:
       | an extended break from anything mentally demanding (preferably
       | more than a month, but at least a few weeks), and a change in
       | circumstances when you return (whether it's a different team,
       | different job, different project, etc). Both are necessary. If
       | you just take a holiday without changing up your work, then
       | you'll spend the whole time dreading returning to the usual
       | grind. It's important to have something different to look forward
       | to when you return. While you're away, you can think about your
       | work and whether you genuinely find it rewarding.
       | 
       | A lot of people go through this. I've been through it twice, and
       | both times it felt like it hijacked my brain. It probably feels
       | like you're doing something wrong or you're a bad employee, but
       | most likely you're just in a temporary rut.
        
       | umutisik wrote:
       | I was in a similar situation 10 years ago, but in a less well-
       | paid job :) I happened on a musician's talk about how to be a
       | productive musician. He was saying that his most important
       | suggestion was to "write everyday". It seemed obvious that
       | musicians should write music everyday. But he meant writing your
       | thoughts everyday on paper. (I am not a musician btw) I took that
       | to heart and started writing in the mornings. The practice helped
       | me to construct, then re-construct, my work and career from first
       | principles.
       | 
       | That being said, "my current mental state is affecting my ability
       | to learn effectively" sounds like you're in some distress. It
       | will not hurt at all to seek help.
        
       | wing-_-nuts wrote:
       | The suggestions for taking a break or seeking therapy are great
       | ones.
       | 
       | Fundamentally, there isn't much overlap between the work that we
       | get _paid_ to do and the work we find meaningful. Unless you work
       | for a non-profit that 's saving the world, there just isn't.
       | 
       | What to do? Well, one thing I've considered is that once I am
       | fully ready to retire, I do part time software development and
       | give half my earnings to a deserving charity. I get back a few
       | days out of my week, and the knowledge that my donations are
       | doing _far_ more for a charity than my volunteering could ever
       | do, and as a bonus I get to keep half to pursue my hobbies. I
       | think that would be a win win for everyone if you could swing it.
        
       | beembeem wrote:
       | I've been in your shoes and will suggest something different than
       | the consensus here.
       | 
       | Instead of sitting around learning (taking online classes)
       | actually DO something.                 - Create something with
       | your own hands that gives you satisfaction.            - Write a
       | journal everyday to give yourself a sense of accomplishment.
       | - Use those new EE skills to make a circuit that performs some
       | small task to automate your daily life.
       | 
       | Sitting around and learning without applying the knowledge is a
       | drain of your precious time.
       | 
       | Create, don't consume.
        
       | hosh wrote:
       | If you cannot care about the goal, then the goal is likely not
       | really worthwhile. There was at one point where I exhausted
       | myself for what was essentially an SEO app. I got to the point
       | where sitting in front of the laptop and the thought of typing
       | generated significant pain; my body freezes. That's burnout. I
       | had nothing left to give. After that, I swore I would only look
       | for work that I find worthwhile and purposeful. I identified some
       | broad areas of social impact that felt meaningful for me (e.g.
       | legal, healthcare, education, finance) and only looked for
       | startups that were working within those areas. YMMV.
       | 
       | If you are young, and you have a good social safety net (family),
       | then it is probably better to actively search for a different
       | company, one where you feel that you are contributing
       | meaningfully and purposefully.
       | 
       | If the only reason you are there is for the high income and the
       | prestige of working there, but you do not feel you are
       | contributing meaninfully, then forcing yourself to work through
       | this will hollow you out. You'll wake up at middle age with a
       | middle-age crisis. You might succeed with the prestige or wealth,
       | and none of it means much. (Or you realize that your youth is
       | ultimately ephemeral, and you can never get it back again).
       | Further, at that time, you are much less likely to absorb the
       | risk of changing your career -- dependents, tech-industry ageism,
       | etc.
       | 
       | In this post-lockdown economic time and huge demand for workers,
       | this is the time where it is favorable for employees. That window
       | is still open, but it is closing. When it closes, we'll be left
       | with lower demand for workers and higher inflation. The window
       | for job mobility is open now and it won't last forever.
       | 
       | You may possibly be able to apply for a different job internally,
       | but I suggest it is something you feel you can contribute
       | meaningfully.
       | 
       | If you still insist on staying, you can try to get a mental-
       | health leave until you come out of burnout. Take the time to find
       | out what is really important to you. It is probably not status or
       | prestige, even if it seems that way. If you're able to find the
       | purpose within you, then that will be what gets you up in the
       | morning; you might be tired, and even exhausted, and yet,
       | purposeful and meanginful work makes it feel like it is worth it.
        
       | csdvrx wrote:
       | A lot of people will tell you to not care about your job, but I
       | think this is wrong: life is better lived (and happier!) with
       | passion.
       | 
       | There is no shortcut: you have to really care about what your job
       | is doing, the people you are helping, the core mission. I love
       | helping my employer make more money.
       | 
       | If you can't align with your job (ex: there is no price I can see
       | myself optimizing/sellings ads-to-eyeballs), find another.
        
       | UncleOxidant wrote:
       | It sounds like you're burned out. Take a vacation ASAP. Take that
       | time to rest. Beyond vacations, make sure you take one day/week
       | where you rest - actually _rest_. Eschew productivity on that
       | day. This was called sabbath in the past and was connected with
       | religion, but there 's much to learn from that tradition of a
       | weekly rhythm of rest to create a secular sabbath. Disconnect -
       | turn off the phone, get away from screens, no social media. Get
       | outside in nature. Hike, bike, row, etc. Let your mind wander.
       | After you feel like you've entered that rested state for while,
       | take some time to reassess your situation.
       | 
       | It's good that you're taking classes and are constantly learning,
       | but consider that in this season of burnout those (vocationally
       | related) activities could be contributing to the problem.
        
         | pesfandiar wrote:
         | In this case, they're bored more than they're overworked.
         | Trying to find more meaning within their day job may be more
         | effective than completely cutting off. Sometimes working harder
         | but on a more meaningful project could reverse a burnout faster
         | than avoiding the problem.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | >Take a vacation ASAP.
         | 
         | Not as a specific reaction to burnout but in the past I've
         | taken 3 to 4 week trips (often group trips) where I've largely
         | disconnected. Takes more discipline to do that now most places
         | than it used to be but can be a total change of pace. What type
         | of trip of course depends on what sort of thing interests you.
         | Take a look at something like the Wilderness Travel catalog to
         | get an idea for the options out there. (Are many such companies
         | but I've had good luck with them.)
        
       | Blackstone4 wrote:
       | Take a vacation Try to move internally saying that you need a new
       | challenge
        
       | blatherard wrote:
       | > Maybe therapy could help.
       | 
       | I think this is where I'd start. At times in my life I focused my
       | efforts at solving my unhappiness by thinking I needed to change
       | my job. In retrospect I mostly did that because I found it easier
       | or more socially acceptable to say something like "I hate my job"
       | than "I am lonely and depressed" (even when only thinking it to
       | myself). Therapy was pretty good at working through some of this,
       | at least for me.
       | 
       | Of course, there are jobs that aren't right for a person. Talking
       | to someone might help you sort out whether that's the case.
        
       | rcarr wrote:
       | Obligatory recommendation whenever burnout comes up: Get a copy
       | of The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron and work your way through
       | it. It was originally designed to help blocked creatives but it's
       | helped all kinds of different people escape ruts.
        
       | jhp123 wrote:
       | Having been in similar places emotionally more than once, the one
       | thing that helped significantly was hard exercise (running,
       | weight lifting). Another trick that helped a little was facing
       | the work I dreaded at a set time first thing in the morning, e.g.
       | going in early to a coffee shop and grinding through work for
       | like an hour.
        
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