[HN Gopher] Jakarta EE 10
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Jakarta EE 10
Author : henk53
Score : 63 points
Date : 2022-09-22 13:24 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (jakarta.ee)
(TXT) w3m dump (jakarta.ee)
| overgard wrote:
| I realize this is probably a very dumb question, I'm not super
| into the Java EE ecosystem, but what exactly is Jakarta EE?
| Clicking around it just seems like a grouping of a bunch of other
| technologies you can get piecemeal? Or am I missing something?
| [deleted]
| lillywastaken wrote:
| It's a bunch of libraries for Java for making big enterprise
| web apps and the like.
| bitwize wrote:
| Are people still building new stuff in this? Serious question,
| not snark.
| username_my1 wrote:
| If you want to build anything with reliability, testable and
| amazing echo system j2ee is the way to go.
|
| I was a skeptic myself always thinking it's too heavy and too
| large and too slow, but after fate handed me a codebase of j2ee
| platform and seeing how reliable and no effort is put into
| maintaining it rather just focus on the application logic.
|
| I would always chose java for any software that's expected to
| last 10 years plus and should work reliably.
| seinecle wrote:
| I build an indie app fully with Jakarta. Source code on Github
| if you are curious. https://nocodefunctions.com/
| geodel wrote:
| Think of it as bridge/connector to old and new components of
| infrastructure. So yes, it is used in lot of places
| sideeffffect wrote:
| Aren't Quarkus (and possibly other frameworks/libs) built on
| top of it?
| khrbrt wrote:
| Quarkus uses the Eclipse Microprofile API, a subset of
| Jakarkta EE API optimized for microservices. It uses Smallrye
| for the implementation of the API.
| kaba0 wrote:
| It is a set of standards. Most modern frameworks like Quarkus
| implements a subset of it (microprofile), while a large part of
| Spring is also an implementation of it/at least spring
| understands concepts out of it.
|
| So yes, it is still used very extensively, though I don't think
| that the old application container model is used for new apps
| anymore.
| arcbyte wrote:
| I see lots of stuff built in subsets of the standards. JAXRS
| and CDI are quite nice, and there are lots of better thought
| out Spring alternative libraries. Also we have microprofile,
| Quarkus, Dropwizard, and others that make use of the same
| standards.
| stickfigure wrote:
| Certainly with parts of it? I use JAXRS quite a lot, it's
| great.
| gavinray wrote:
| I had never built a JVM app and needed to, evaluated a bunch of
| technologies, and went with Jakarta EE + Eclipse MicroProfile
| on Quarkus.
|
| Believe it or not, it's a very pleasant and modern experience
| and the technology is easy to understand (except for CDI, that
| took a while).
|
| I didn't like that all the other frameworks had invented their
| own ways of doing things. Having a standard/specification with
| a voting committee from multiple organizations seems much more
| rational to me.
| [deleted]
| dcminter wrote:
| Probably not much - but bear in mind that there's so much Java
| out there that there are bound to be a few backwaters doing
| weird things as well as a huge pile of legacy code that will
| benefit from the update (probably not as big as the pile of
| legacy code that will never get enough love to get updated!)
|
| I haven't personally seen any green field Java EE code in the
| last 10 years or so!
|
| Edit: Since I got downvoted for this (I would have thought)
| innocuous observation, I'll add the clarifying observation that
| _Java_ is thriving. I 'm specifically talking about Java EE,
| and Java EE as a platform at that, not as one-of-many libraries
| supporting the various other platforms.
| geodel wrote:
| I mean I also think you are right. I will observe that Java
| EE is now Jakarta EE. It is important because it means not
| much money is to be made by "Java EE" now, So Oracle has
| dumped it to Eclipse foundation as Jakarta EE.
|
| It has also been sliced and diced in to multiple profiles,
| popular among them is Microprofile. It can be implemented
| with Apache tomcat instead of heavier Websphere/ Weblogic
| etc.
|
| Another thing that happened is _container_ term which in Java
| world would be Servlet /EJB containers is now associated with
| Docker containers. And Java enterprise containers fell out of
| fashion.
|
| All these factor led do Java/Jakarta EE being also ran.
| dcminter wrote:
| And there I was patting myself on the back for not calling
| it J2EE ;)
| davidpolberger wrote:
| I bet big on Java/Jakarta EE, and the open source application
| server WildFly, years ago when the web version of Calcapp was
| born in 2014. I have been very happy with that decision. JAX-RS
| is a great way to build annotation-driven REST web services
| with very little boilerplate. WildFly (the open source version
| of JBoss EAP, essentially) is actively developed by Red Hat,
| starts quickly and is easy to work with. And the modern
| incarnation of Java -- with streams and lambdas -- is a great
| fit for what we do (building a compiler).
|
| The only decision I have come to regret is using JPA, which is
| short for Java Persistence API (a specification for an ORM --
| an Object-Relational Mapping), and where the most famous
| implementation is Hibernate. As far as ORMs go, Hibernate is
| probably fine, but I wish I had considered using something more
| light-weight and closer to the underlying database. As things
| stand, JPA mostly gets in the way, and I have had to resort to
| "native queries" (SQL) for our most performance-sensitive code
| paths.
|
| I don't regret choosing JPA, as much as I regret choosing an
| ORM.
|
| Also, as others have alluded to, Java is a stable choice. At
| the same time I chose Java EE and PostgreSQL, I chose AngularJS
| for our front end, which has been fully superseded by modern
| versions of Angular. We'll need to spend lots of time replacing
| AngularJS with React or Angular (we haven't decided yet), so
| that decision didn't really pan out.
|
| On the server, though, I couldn't be happier with Java/Jakarta
| EE and PostgreSQL.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Yep, still typical in many Fortune 500 consulting shops.
| latchkey wrote:
| As a co-founder of the original Jakarta who was in that
| conference room at Sun around 1999 (23 years now!), it boggles my
| mind that the name is still in use and that people still use and
| work on this software.
|
| This is exactly why you should write unit tests, you never know
| how long your stuff is going to get used for.
| amir734jj wrote:
| why is it called Jakarta?
| latchkey wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakarta_Project#Project_name
|
| The longer story is that myself and a couple of guys from
| Italy (Stefano and Pier) took over Apache JServ, which was
| the only open source servlet engine at the time. We started
| to make some significant improvements and created Apache Java
| as an umbrella project. Apache made us some of the first non-
| httpd members.
|
| We eventually got noticed by James Davidson at Sun, who was
| working on the servlet API and the reference implementation
| of that. Eventually, we decided to merge our efforts. Sun
| didn't like us using the Java (tm) name, so we picked the
| name of the conference room that we had the discussions in.
| That turned into renaming everything Apache Jakarta. It also
| involved giving us their reference implementation, which we
| named Apache Tomcat. The build system for Tomcat (because
| nothing good existed at the time) ended up turning into
| Apache Ant.
|
| After insane amounts of work, we grew quite a bit as an
| organization. One day, I saw Doug Cutting working on the
| Lucene project and invited him under the Jakarta umbrella.
| That led to things like Hadoop and that whole ecosystem.
|
| Edit: To clarify the JServ stuff. I had a web development
| company at the time. I wanted to work in Java and all the
| servlet stuff at the time was commercial products that were
| not very good. I found JServ, which one guy had built as a
| college/parttime project and then abandoned it, full of bugs
| and not finished.
|
| So, I picked it up and started to work on fixes and then
| Stefano/Pier somehow found me. At the time, Apache didn't
| even have a way to host this stuff, so I ran it under my own
| (working-dogs.com) domain for about a year or so.
|
| Eventually, through his work at Apache, Brian Behlendorf
| figured out there was a business in hosting code... so he
| started CollabNet. I quit my company and went to work with
| him and a bunch of other Apache folks. That's where
| subversion was created and Github eventually won that
| competition.
| chrisjc wrote:
| Wow, what an incredible story! Especially the Tomcat and
| Ant part. I was neck deep into this stack (although OC4J
| and JBoss, not Jakarta) at the time, and was totally
| oblivious to what was happening behind the scenes.
| latchkey wrote:
| It's funny because I thought Marc Fleury was a jerk. I
| was also a jerk at the time. We didn't get along at all.
| He also ended up making about $500m+ on our hard work
| when he sold to RHAT. Not to say that he didn't work
| hard, but if it wasn't for Tomcat and our work to
| popularize Servlets, JBoss might not have ever existed or
| been as successful.
|
| Many many years later, he and I ended up as very good
| friends and he's still a lot more wealthy than I am or
| probably will ever be. I simply -\\_(tsu)_/- off his far
| greater wealth to my own karma of being a jerk at the
| time. I also stopped being a jerk. =) A good lesson there
| for sure.
| chrisjc wrote:
| Marc Fleury, that's a name I haven't heard of in a long
| time but brings back a lot of memories of JBoss and all.
|
| Sounds like you have a lot of positive energy despite the
| history. I'm sure that speaks volumes of you character.
|
| Thanks for all that you did on these projects! While not
| Fluery rich myself, your work certainly enriched my own
| life.
| latchkey wrote:
| It enriched quite a lot of people, including myself. It
| was really great to see a whole industry revolve around
| our very early efforts. Very few people know about those
| early days and what really happened.
| amir734jj wrote:
| Wow. Such a story. Thank you so much for sharing.
| [deleted]
| playingalong wrote:
| I certainly wasn't in that room, but...
|
| Because it's a big city on island of Java?
| matt_heimer wrote:
| Java is an island and Jakarta is a capital city on that
| island. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java
| robobro wrote:
| as an aside, Jakarta is not especially tourist-friendly...
| outside of malls... you're better off going to Jogjakarta
| if you come to Indonesia as a tourist :D
| valbaca wrote:
| Jakarta, the city, is the largest city on the island of Java.
|
| They needed to pick "some" name and went with the "Java
| island" naming option, rather than some "Java coffee" or
| other naming scheme.
|
| Wikipedia:
|
| The Eclipse Foundation could not agree with Oracle over the
| use of javax and Java trademarks.[5] Oracle owns the
| trademark for the name "Java" and the platform was renamed
| from Java EE to Jakarta EE.[6][7] The name refers to the
| largest city on the island of Java and also the capital of
| Indonesia, Jakarta.[8] The name should not be confused with
| the former Jakarta Project which fostered a number of current
| and former Java projects at the Apache Software Foundation.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakarta_EE
| geodel wrote:
| > ..it boggles my mind that the name is still in use
|
| Well, I guess it should not. I read there is some kind of rule
| where the older things get the higher chance they also last for
| long in future. Mainly because they have proved their
| resilience.
| ivanjermakov wrote:
| Lindy effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect
| mdaniel wrote:
| There were some interesting comments on the related post "What's
| new in Jakarta EE 10?" recently:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32838321
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