[HN Gopher] The Strid: The 'deadliest stretch of water'
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The Strid: The 'deadliest stretch of water'
        
       Author : Exuma
       Score  : 365 points
       Date   : 2022-09-22 00:56 UTC (22 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (the-yorkshireman.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (the-yorkshireman.com)
        
       | wikitopian wrote:
       | JavaScript Creek
        
       | slowhand09 wrote:
       | Dump barrels of an environmentally friendly surfactant upstream,
       | thus neutralizing the bubbles, foam, and froth temporarily.
        
         | koheripbal wrote:
         | No way to get rid of the peat stain.
        
       | db1234 wrote:
       | This reminds me of 'mekedatu' ('The Goat Cross') gorge in the
       | path of river Kaveri in India
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mekedatu. The water here is
       | similarly deceptive making it extremely dangerous. Many lives
       | have been lost.
        
       | tptacek wrote:
       | To save a click: the "100% mortality" thing is a local legend.
       | 
       | There are videos of people swimming it (not deliberately: it's a
       | rapids, and they've fallen out of boats).
        
         | Exuma wrote:
         | The place where they are swimming is the part where its 5
         | meters deep. Upstream it's 65+ meters deep, and when you watch
         | the video there appears to be a zero chance anyone could
         | survive that (watch the other videos down in the article)
        
           | jupp0r wrote:
           | People have swum down Niagara Falls. How can you possibly say
           | it's "impossible" to survive this?
        
             | jupp0r wrote:
             | There are tons of videos of people kayaking this creek [1],
             | some with people exiting their kayaks and swimming in it
             | and not dying. When did HN become a place where
             | extraordinary claims without extraordinary evidence get
             | defended by downvoting reasonable doubts?
             | 
             | [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MkPUPxPfFHw
        
               | theteapot wrote:
               | Please don't make light of The Strid by describing it as
               | a mere "creek". One video does not make "tons".
               | Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence! This
               | video is clearly fake, or if not perhaps the kayakers in
               | this singular video are some kind of immortal demigods.
        
               | kuschku wrote:
               | There is one video, and even in that, a person with a
               | kayak, a life vest, and assistance from others, still
               | almost drowns.
        
           | tptacek wrote:
           | I 100% believe it's a very unsafe place to swim; it's a
           | rapids, after all.
        
         | TillE wrote:
         | If we interpret the claim as "100% of people who have fallen in
         | accidentally have died", that seems fairly plausible.
        
           | saalweachter wrote:
           | Eh, I know, internet literalism and all, but once something
           | becomes deadly enough -- falling out of an airplane, going
           | over Niagara falls, tangling with high voltage power lines --
           | I'm happy to call it "100% mortality" and chalk up the
           | residue of survivors as "miraculous", instead of getting all
           | " _technically_ it 's only 99.7% fatal...".
        
         | arcticfox wrote:
         | There's no video of anyone swimming the whole thing. The
         | conditions vary wildly from one meter to the next.
         | 
         | > To save a click: the "100% mortality" thing is a local
         | legend.
         | 
         | Middlebrow dismissal, given that there's no proof that it's
         | _not_ 100% and obviously there 's no way to prove that it is.
         | It's very easy to imagine a design that would kill 100% of
         | swimmers, it would actually be surprising if there isn't
         | somewhere in the world that would do it.
         | 
         | 3:20 of this video shows a well-prepared kayaker w/ a ton of
         | PPE get quite the experience.
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkPUPxPfFHw
         | 
         | I don't think there's any way someone without a life jacket
         | survives 3:40, or someone pulling them to safety at 3:54. The
         | extremely bouyant kayak itself struggles at 3:54 to not go
         | down. A ~neutrally bouyant human in that aerated water would be
         | toast.
        
           | davidguetta wrote:
           | W.T.F.
        
           | chasd00 wrote:
           | they kayak almost getting pulled under blows me away. Thanks,
           | but no thanks!
        
         | Tao3300 wrote:
         | Hate to break it to you, but all those people are going to die.
        
           | xattt wrote:
           | Correlation does not imply causation.
           | 
           | :P
           | 
           | Edit: fixed the accidentally reversed cliche
        
             | orev wrote:
             | You can't have causation without correlation.
        
               | naniwaduni wrote:
               | Sure you can, "causation without correlation" happens all
               | the time in systems with feedback from unmodelled
               | variables. A canonical example is correlating braking
               | force with vehicle speed while driving downhill; if
               | you're trying to maintain speed, your data's going to
               | look like your speed remains relatively constant no
               | matter how hard you brake.
               | 
               | (Or, I guess relevant here, you're not going to find much
               | correlation between, say, getting guillotined and being
               | dead 150 years in the future, even though getting
               | guillotined absolutely does count as a cause of death in
               | the conventional sense.)
        
               | mellavora wrote:
               | or, for a mathematical example x and sin(x) have zero
               | correlation.
               | 
               | correlation implies a linear relationship.
        
               | swores wrote:
               | Is that a definition of correlation inside the field of
               | mathematics? Because the normal English definition of
               | correlation just means a connection, and absolutely
               | doesn't mean linear.
               | 
               | " _a connection or relationship between two or more
               | facts, numbers, etc._ " https://dictionary.cambridge.org/
               | dictionary/english/correlat...
               | 
               | edit: Ah, Wikipedia intro suggests that yes it's specific
               | within statistics (though still seems to not be a hard
               | requirement to call something a correlation?): " _In
               | statistics, correlation or dependence is any statistical
               | relationship, whether causal or not, between two random
               | variables or bivariate data. Although in the broadest
               | sense, "correlation" may indicate any type of
               | association, in statistics it normally refers to the
               | degree to which a pair of variables are linearly
               | related._" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation
        
               | thaumasiotes wrote:
               | The slightly more fun version of that example is that
               | cos(x) and sin(x) have zero correlation. But if you plot
               | a bunch of coordinates that are generated that way,
               | you'll quickly notice a pattern...
               | 
               | You can easily view cos(x) as causing the value of sin(x)
               | to change - if cos(x) starts going down, sin(x) will too
               | soon afterward. If cos(x) starts going up, so will
               | sin(x), soon afterward.
               | 
               | In fact, if you allow for a time lag between your data
               | series, you will find that sin(x) and cos(x) are
               | _perfectly_ correlated.
        
               | robocat wrote:
               | I am in a sphere in space, and I throw a dart at a wall,
               | and I measure the coordinates. I caused those coordinates
               | to occur, yet there is no correlation between cause and
               | coordinates. Or a coin toss.
        
               | thaumasiotes wrote:
               | Causation without correlation is the norm.
        
             | gameman144 wrote:
             | Not sure if sarcastic. Causation _definitely_ implies
             | correlation.
        
               | s1artibartfast wrote:
               | Not always. There can be other more significant or
               | equivalent causes.
        
           | refurb wrote:
           | On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone
           | drops to zero.
        
           | mellavora wrote:
           | yes, but not all will die by drowning in the strid.
        
           | loeg wrote:
           | In the same sense that we are all going to die, right?
        
       | jollyllama wrote:
       | Is there like a really rough cross-diagram of this feature
       | anywhere?
        
       | NGRhodes wrote:
       | I live 15 miles from there, its a beautiful, popular area, that
       | is easily accessible via nearby carparks and riverside paths, so
       | great for family visits. There are more challenging routes on the
       | surrounding hills and moors, so attracts a variety of people
       | there to enjoy the outdoors, its common for the large carparks to
       | be completely full. I can't comment on the mortality rate at the
       | Strid, the photos and videos do not do justice of how dramatic it
       | is and how loud the water is where it escapes from the narrows.
       | You only have to go a short distance downstream (1/4 mile) and
       | there are safe paddling spots after the river widens again.
        
         | spookierookie wrote:
         | Shouldn't at least this section be cordoned off?
        
       | modeless wrote:
       | OT: Am I wrong in thinking the correct word to use here would be
       | "deceptive" instead of "deceiving"? "Deceiving" in this context
       | just sounds wrong to me but I feel like I'm suddenly hearing it a
       | lot these days.
        
         | P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote:
         | Deceptive is the better word as it's passive, deceiving is more
         | active.
         | 
         | I think they're both technically correct, but there's a nuance
         | in their meaning.
        
           | jhanschoo wrote:
           | They are words that have come to English via different
           | routes. "Deceiving" is the present participle of "to
           | deceive", with the earliest common ancestor being the Latin
           | noun decipio. The passive past participle of this noun in
           | Latin is "deceptum", and on this form it is common to derive
           | an adjective with a postfix "-ivus", hence "deceptivus". This
           | word then enters English in a parallel manner, giving
           | "deceptive".
           | 
           | In this case they have identical meaning in context, but
           | there's frequently unpredictable semantic drift in these
           | pairs, if both do end up in English.
        
         | SteveNuts wrote:
         | "Deceivingly dangerous" would sound better, imo
        
           | brigandish wrote:
           | If only because of the novelty in that phrasing, but
           | ascribing some kind of (nefarious) intention to an object is
           | a common rhetorical technique.
        
       | marcodiego wrote:
       | > Local legend has it that 100 percent of the people who have
       | fallen into the Bolton Strid have died.
       | 
       | Official statics, anyone?
        
       | helipad wrote:
       | It always warms my heart that The Strid is internet famous. My
       | memory is walking by it and my grandad, not one for hyperbole,
       | telling us how dangerous it was. Miss you gramps!
        
       | kelsolaar wrote:
       | 65 meters deep measured by the person in the second video:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJFQXT6PIP8
        
         | fuzzfactor wrote:
         | >The area is unfathomably deep
         | 
         | Regardless, seems like never a more suitable description could
         | be made.
        
           | melonrusk wrote:
           | Actually, it's about 35 fathoms.
        
           | mod wrote:
           | Unfathomable has a less-generic meaning that, given the
           | context, should probably be used.
           | 
           | That water is not fathomable, literally.
        
         | secondcoming wrote:
         | But that reading was invalid due to bubbles in the water
        
           | melonrusk wrote:
           | In a later video he goes back and checks with a better sonar,
           | and gets the same results.
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDskXBfyNes
        
         | Anon4Now wrote:
         | If you liked that, go to his Strid playlist and watch the one
         | where he films underwater. Watching it, you can imagine how
         | terrifying it would be to get sucked under water. Very creepy.
        
       | lbriner wrote:
       | This article is from 2021 but this was on HN 5 years ago:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16166419
        
       | joncp wrote:
       | In case you haven't already seen Tom Scott's video about it:
       | https://youtu.be/mCSUmwP02T8 .
        
         | scubakid wrote:
         | It doesn't look particularly fast-moving, so I must be missing
         | something here that accounts for the legendary 100% mortality
         | rate. Unless there's a giant vortex of electric eels, this
         | stretch of water looks tamer than what those extreme kayakers
         | were up to in HBO's recent docuseries.
        
           | graeme wrote:
           | I heard it described as follows: the full force of the river
           | you see upstream has been turned on its side and the current
           | goes down. You can't pull against that, especially against
           | curved, mossy, wet rocks
           | 
           | So as if an elephant were pulling you down beneath the water
           | and you only had your strength to grip against it. Can't be
           | done.
        
             | andrewflnr wrote:
             | What I don't understand is how that works from a
             | conservation of mass perspective. The water can't be
             | literally flowing down at every point and keep a stable
             | surface. I assume it's something more complicated, right.
        
               | throwaway09223 wrote:
               | It can.
               | 
               | It's an underground tunnel with a small exposed strip at
               | the top.
               | 
               | the water can be circulating around the tunnel, flowing
               | back and forth under the rocks. It can be pulling
               | sideways or down at the exposed strip with the water
               | circulating back up in the underground areas out at the
               | sides.
        
               | andrewflnr wrote:
               | Looking at the underwater footage, I think this is
               | roughly it. You could see bubbles running up the walls.
        
               | jakeinspace wrote:
               | Of course the flux of water into any volume is equal to
               | the outward flux. But I would imagine the situation is
               | that there are circulating turbulent branching streams of
               | current pulling you down. If you were incredibly lucky,
               | and not killed by impacting the walls, you might pop back
               | up by catching a ride on another section of current.
        
               | carabiner wrote:
               | I bet it's flowing horizontally but faster the deeper you
               | go. You fall in, the higher speed flow at your feet
               | apparently "sucks" you under due to its higher speed
               | (higher inertia), like being grabbed by your ankles and
               | yanked down.
        
               | rz2k wrote:
               | In addition to the explanations of the turbulent water
               | smashing victims against the rock walls, presumably a
               | very turbulent flow could also turn into a mixture of air
               | and water, with a corresponding decrease in density such
               | that it would be more difficult or even impossible for a
               | person to maintain buoyancy.
        
               | amluto wrote:
               | Sure it can.
               | 
               | In an incompressible flow (e.g. water under anything
               | resembling normal circumstances), there is no net flow
               | into or out of any given _volume_ , i.e. a 3-D box or
               | other shape. But the surface is 2-D! So you can look at a
               | little box with its top at the surface and its bottom
               | slightly below the surface. If there is downward flow out
               | the bottom (and zero flow out the top, of course), there
               | must be net inward flow in the sides. Nothing wrong with
               | that.
               | 
               | This could happen if the river has constant speed and
               | constant cross-sectional area everywhere but gets
               | progressively narrower and deeper. The water moves inward
               | because it has to get away from the encroaching banks and
               | moves down to fill the deepening channel. If this is
               | abrupt enough even in the absence of turbulence, the
               | downward current a foot or so below the surface will be
               | substantial.
        
               | steve_adams_86 wrote:
               | Part of the difficulty of turbulent water is that it can
               | really whip you and smash you around. It doesn't
               | necessarily look that violent from outside of the water,
               | but you could be getting broken limbs and brain trauma in
               | that kind of turbulence. The force of the water pressing
               | you into walls and boulders is tremendous.
               | 
               | Loads of fatalities in turbulent water occur because the
               | victim rapidly becomes unconscious in the water.
        
             | leeter wrote:
             | So parallels can be made to other places to show the
             | danger. It's a slot canyon; only one that's generally
             | constantly full versus empty most the year until the
             | monsoon hits like those here in the US where I am. But the
             | danger remains the same, the sandstone geology allows for
             | it to create very deep and fast flowing situation due to
             | Bernoulli's principle. Even more so for constrictions in
             | the rock which form natural venturi.
             | 
             | <s>I looked but was not able to find CFM/CMM for the input
             | and output</s>; but that would give a reasonable idea of
             | what the volume of the canyon must be because what goes in
             | must come out. So the volume of the flow at the outlet and
             | inlet gives a very good idea of just how crazy it can be.
             | 
             | Edit: Input flows:
             | https://nrfa.ceh.ac.uk/data/station/meanflow/27096 Output
             | flows: https://nrfa.ceh.ac.uk/data/station/meanflow/27043
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slot_canyon
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli%27s_principle
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | Quillbert182 wrote:
           | I don't know about in a kayak, but I imagine that the current
           | is too strong for a swimmer to hold on. The water will also
           | suck you down deep underneath, almost certainly lodging you
           | into one of the tunnels for the short remainder of your life.
        
             | nibbleshifter wrote:
             | In a kayak if the waters too turbulent (frothy or foamy)
             | you can lose buoyancy pretty hazardously and capsize
             | _really_ easily with poor chances of unaided recovery.
             | 
             | There's a few spots near me that are well known danger
             | spots for kayakers due to this phenomenon.
        
             | Exuma wrote:
             | The sides of the rocks are also angled out, so not only do
             | you get sucked down, you get sucked down and out, so
             | there's no chance of even swimming back up.
        
             | scubakid wrote:
             | Ah, I was wondering about the extent to which it might pull
             | you under. Like, is that quantified at all? Consistent or
             | only in a few sections? And how does it compare with some
             | of the world's other most dangerous rivers?
        
               | HillRat wrote:
               | Don't know about quantified, but some of the underwater
               | videos show bubble entrainment in some kind of shear flow
               | 25+ meters down, which indicates a terrifying amount of
               | velocity and power pushing downwards.
        
               | robotnikman wrote:
               | Got a link to any of the underwater videos? I'm really
               | curious to see what it looks like underwater.
        
               | Exuma wrote:
               | Go to the 2nd video, first comment on that video. Not
               | sure if that's the same one the person you are replying
               | to is talking about
        
               | collyw wrote:
               | You will see brownish / white foam. I have kayaked plenty
               | in the UK.
        
               | ineptech wrote:
               | From a kayaker's guidebook:
               | 
               | > The Strid (grade 5-) is a long thin section of river
               | where the Wharfe narrows to 5-6 feet in places. The main
               | problems are beneath surface in form of ledges which if
               | you're swept under - you can forget it! At a higher level
               | as seen in pictures, it's runnable. The pictures show
               | med-high water and most of the ledges were covered. I'd
               | have graded it at 5- this day. At lower levels it runs at
               | class 5+ and many would portage, the ledges that trap you
               | need divers to get to you and even good safety cover
               | would be of little use in an entrapment situation. (2
               | tourists fell in at the Strid last year and one didn't
               | emerge for nearly a week)
               | 
               | Portage in this context means get out and carry your
               | kayak past it. From
               | https://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/rivers/england/north-
               | eas...
        
               | Sniffnoy wrote:
               | Sorry, what's the rating system?
        
               | gregplaysguitar wrote:
               | It tells you how difficult the rapid is to paddle - 1
               | being basically flat water, 5 generally the highest that
               | can be paddled. This website explains it
               | https://gopaddling.info/river-gradings-simple-guide/
        
               | gerdesj wrote:
               | It's not in the FAQ for the site and Rivers -> Grades is
               | a 404! I suppose we'll have to take up kayaking to find
               | out.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | It's a pretty standard rating system. (I-VI--with the
               | latter not being generally runnable) However, once you
               | get to the highest levels there are unique features that
               | can determine difficulty/danger. For example, if you do
               | dump, is there a quiet section at the end of the rapid or
               | is it miles of the same thing?
        
           | toss1 wrote:
           | What you are missing is that this is an extremely complex
           | version of a drowning machine -- very good read here [0].
           | 
           | Under the water is turbulence that just traps a person and
           | keeps them tumbling underwater.
           | 
           | In addition the article points out that there are numerous
           | rock outcroppings underwater against which an unfortunate
           | person's head would likely get bashed, reducing or
           | eliminating consciousness.
           | 
           | I also notice that the water is quite frothy and full of air
           | bubbles. This reduces it's net density and thus reduces the
           | buoyancy available to any objects that would otherwise float.
           | It can be enough to sink ships [1].
           | 
           | So, basically, the turbulent water will pull you under, bash
           | you hard against the rocks, give you less-than-normal
           | buoyancy, and hold you under. It's kind of a toss-up whether
           | you lose consciousness first from the head injuries or the
           | lack of air, and after a few minutes of that, you're dead.
           | Have a nice afterlife
           | 
           | [0] https://practical.engineering/blog/2019/3/16/drowning-
           | machin...
           | 
           | [1] https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1350-bubbling-
           | seas-ca...
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | irrational wrote:
           | > What is known is that a powerful undercurrent will pull
           | anybody that falls into certain death.
           | 
           | > The reason for the dangerous network of caves is just
           | further up above the mouth of the Bolton Strid the river
           | flows 30ft wide and a lot easier giving a more idyllic,
           | romantic and tranquil flow before being disrupted by a
           | geological formation that abruptly funnels hundreds of
           | gallons of water through a tiny six-foot channel.
           | 
           | So, the surface appears tranquil, but under the surface is a
           | swift turbulent undercurrent.
        
           | maxerickson wrote:
           | It's like 100 feet deep. Better hope you are at the surface
           | if you are trying to grab a rock at the surface.
        
             | throw827474737 wrote:
             | The guy in the second vid measures 65 meters (210 feet) at
             | one place, 50 meters at another, thats really a wow deep
             | hidden canyon there.
        
           | carabiner wrote:
           | Clearly you should venture forth and swim in it to prove him
           | wrong. Godspeed.
        
           | sideshowb wrote:
           | I've not seen the documentaries you refer. But kayakers know
           | that danger of a water feature doesn't necessarily correlate
           | with how violent it looks on the surface. Plenty of very
           | quiet weirs are known to be fatal while plenty of noisy ones
           | (though not all!) will spit you out unharmed.
        
         | kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote:
         | It's embedded in TFA
        
           | xeromal wrote:
           | The fucking article?
        
             | noSyncCloud wrote:
             | The featured article.
        
               | xeromal wrote:
               | Oh, haha. Thanks.
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | Yeah, and you read the fine manual. Sure.
        
       | sam1r wrote:
       | It would be an epic demonstration to Crash test a fleet of iPhone
       | 14's and verify their waterproof capabilities.
       | 
       | I've seen many demonstrations since iPhone 12 of people just
       | recording video in their fish tank.
        
       | thisisnotanexit wrote:
       | As soon as I saw the headline I thought that it sounds like
       | something Tom Scott would create a video about... and then there
       | is his video right in the article.
        
       | kazinator wrote:
       | Did you mean "deceptive" or "treacherous"?
        
         | tomcam wrote:
         | decepcherous
        
           | the_sleaze_ wrote:
           | treacheptive
        
         | Exuma wrote:
         | Considering the very definition of "deceptive" is "apt or
         | tending to deceive," which is the word I used, I'd say what I
         | used is fine.
        
           | kazinator wrote:
           | But it came out as "deceiving"; check the title.
        
             | Exuma wrote:
             | What exactly are you correcting? I used the word right as
             | far as I can tell.
             | 
             | "Looks can be deceiving" is an extremely common idiom that
             | means basically what I wrote in the title.
        
             | giraffe_lady wrote:
             | I understood the meaning and it seems like you and everyone
             | else here did too. It may not be the word you would have
             | chosen but that's life.
        
               | kazinator wrote:
               | HN submission titles can be improved based on feedback,
               | which is one of the functions of comments. As you can
               | see, the usage no longer appears in the title.
               | 
               | The meaning being understandable isn't an effective
               | criterion for good writing, because even egregiously poor
               | writing with multiple errors of grammar, spelling and
               | word usage can often be understood.
        
               | giraffe_lady wrote:
               | Yes it seems like they removed it entirely. An impressive
               | victory for nitpickers everywhere. This site embarrasses
               | me sometimes.
        
               | kazinator wrote:
               | If you recommend the site to someone, and they see
               | nothing but excellent titles on the front page, then in
               | that situation you're spared embarrassment.
        
       | hiidrew wrote:
       | The Strid's calm apperance is what scares me (calm at least from
       | the photos, I imagine it's loud in person). Would admire from
       | afar, avoid any off chance of slipping in.
        
         | daveslash wrote:
         | Yeah. That Youtube video of the guy testing the depth with a
         | fishing rod... builds my anxiety just watching him get that
         | close. If that were a 2,000ft cliff instead of water, I
         | wouldn't get half that close! Knowing how deadly the water
         | is... one slip... _anxiety building_.....
        
       | kart23 wrote:
       | It would be pretty cool to send an underwater drone down there,
       | with power/video line to the surface, so it would be pretty
       | lightweight and enough illumination to see in the water.
        
         | Nursie wrote:
         | I've been thinking about a Gladius "Chasing Dory" for a while
         | as they are comparatively reasonably priced. But even at a few
         | hundred bucks I don't think I'd want to risk it in there!
        
         | TT-392 wrote:
         | I kinda doubt you'd get any useful control with those currents.
         | Might as well just drop a camera in there on a rope or a stick
         | (which has already been done).
        
       | jeff-davis wrote:
       | Mythbusters: looks like a job for "Buster" (the crash dummy).
        
       | osrec wrote:
       | Interesting story: my parents had a fashion business in
       | Yorkshire, and one of their regular customers asked them to
       | produce a t-shirt with the words "I jumped the strid" on it. We
       | had no idea what the words meant. Turns out, in Yorkshire,
       | jumping the strid was a way to express your love to your
       | girlfriend. We got a few of those t-shirts made, and were
       | surprised by the number of 50+ year old couples that bought them
       | that summer!
        
         | rob74 wrote:
         | So you either jump the Strid or, failing that, you cross the
         | Jordan (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Crossin
         | g%20J...), in which case you won't need a T-Shirt anymore...
        
           | chrisshroba wrote:
           | Or you cross the river Styx [1], depending which mythology
           | you believe.
           | 
           | [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Styx
        
             | anyonecancode wrote:
             | Or the River on Which Nothing Floats
             | 
             | (referencing Ken Liu's Dandelion Dynasty, which I just
             | finished. Liu is the American translator for Liu Cixin's
             | Three Body Problem, which has been discussed on HN, so
             | other HN readers might be interested to learn that he also
             | has his own fiction)
             | 
             | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Liu#Novels
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | Or the Rubicon
        
       | collyw wrote:
       | Doesn't look like 100% mortality rate to me. This guy is pretty
       | shit in a kayak, but his friends knew what to do.
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_q8KiEfW7k
        
         | TylerE wrote:
         | Now imagine if there weren't other people present.
        
           | collyw wrote:
           | I imagine he would walk around it. It's usually only very
           | high end kayakers that kayak solo. Or people extremely
           | familiar with the section.
        
       | gnfargbl wrote:
       | On the history page of York Sub-Aqua club, they refer to members
       | having regularly gone diving in the "Stridd" at Bolton Abbey in
       | years gone past [1]. The only other reference I can find to
       | diving in the Strid is in Youtube comments [2], which apparently
       | suggest that the dives stopped some decades ago.
       | 
       | Anyone know differently?
       | 
       | EDIT: More at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUamSryCUK4, but
       | sadly without progess as reported at
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDskXBfyNes#t=179.
       | 
       | [1] https://york-diving.co.uk/index.php/history/
       | 
       | [2] https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-
       | news/scub...
        
       | thih9 wrote:
       | Did anyone try throwing an airtag / other location device there?
       | Would it reappear in some river or would it get stuck
       | underground?
        
         | tux3 wrote:
         | Natural river water is going to absorb the airtag's Bluetooth
         | signal, it'll lose tracking very quickly unless it stays near a
         | phone at all times.
         | 
         | You could chuck hundreds of iphones into the river along the
         | airtag. I hear they're waterproof to some decent depth
        
       | hirvi74 wrote:
       | A YouTuber named, "Jack A Snacks" stuck a camera down the Strid.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot8lr_5oHE4
       | 
       | and
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPO7cxHJgvw
       | 
       | Looks absolutely brutal.
        
         | rob74 wrote:
         | If you compare the above-surface parts of the video to the
         | pictures from the article, you notice that the pictures were
         | taken at "high water", where the gorge is filled up to the
         | brim. In the video, there is at least one meter of near-
         | vertical wall visible, so it doesn't look like an innocuous
         | stream anymore.
        
         | jakzurr wrote:
         | Really, really creepy to watch. I kept gritting my teeth when
         | he was climbing on the mossy rocks, wondering how easy it would
         | be to join his camera. :(
        
       | jawadch93 wrote:
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | danielvaughn wrote:
       | I remember seeing a few videos on this, it's super interesting
       | because there are accounts of how dangerous it is, going back
       | _hundreds of years_. Fascinating stuff.
        
       | jupp0r wrote:
       | > 100% mortality rate
       | 
       | Not if you count kayaking[1]. In general I doubt that this is
       | more dangerous than other whitewater creeks. They are all death
       | traps that people can't normally survive swimming in, especially
       | if it's hard to get out. The article seems to be based more on
       | local legend than actual facts.
       | 
       | [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MkPUPxPfFHw
       | 
       | edit: different video, there are really lots of them folks
        
         | szundi wrote:
         | Article sais it is deep and there are tunnels also. It sucks
         | you down and you are lost in a tunnel and die.
         | 
         | How exactly do you plan to survive when falling off the kayak?
        
           | askvictor wrote:
           | You'd hope to not fall out of the kayak, but stay in it (with
           | the skirt keeping most water out of the body of it), and do
           | an Eskimo roll. The kayak, being very buoyant with all that
           | air inside, would be unlikely to be sucked under. If you
           | can't do an Eskimo roll, you would drown (presuming the
           | whitewater traps you in the one spot rather than pushing you
           | downstream)
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | samstave wrote:
           | You lit just came up with the invention of the scuba-kayak..
           | 
           | Call it the "sub-marine" or something such
        
           | jupp0r wrote:
           | There is literally somebody falling out of the kayak in the
           | video I linked, around the 3:30 mark. He's swimming with a
           | life vest on.
        
             | exDM69 wrote:
             | And he was pulled out of the water by two other persons
             | using a paddle. Before that he was stuck upside down under
             | the kayak for a solid 10 seconds before another person
             | grabbed the kayak. There was no indication that they
             | could've uprighted the kayak under their own power (we can
             | only speculate). The person didn't look like a happy camper
             | afterwards.
        
         | omnicognate wrote:
         | It's supposed to be especially dangerous because it doesn't
         | look like a whitewater creek. There's a part where the river
         | becomes narrow enough to jump across and the water appears calm
         | but is extremely deep and fast moving. It's a popular beauty
         | spot and the river can be mistaken for a shalllow stream.
         | 
         | The article is indeed of very low quality, though, and claims
         | of it being "the most dangerous stretch of water in the world"
         | are hyperbole at best.
        
         | samstave wrote:
         | What IS BEAUTIFUL is the people who are standing on the side
         | waiting to freaking help.
        
         | EdwardDiego wrote:
         | My brother-in-law drowned in the Mawhera/Grey River on the West
         | Coast of the South Island of Aotearoa New Zealand.
         | 
         | The geology of the river that got my BIL is very similar to the
         | Strid - swift deep waters cutting through a limestone bed,
         | creating shelves that currents and buoyancy can trap you under,
         | eroding through to natural caves, or in the case of the
         | Mawhera, eroding into the old coal mining tunnels that burrowed
         | beneath the riverbed in the 1800s.
         | 
         | End result is a highly treacherous waterway. The Police Dive
         | Squad refused to search for my BIL's body due to the shelves
         | and tunnels, and the current.
         | 
         | So, yeah, this is more dangerous than your whitewater creeks,
         | mainly because it doesn't look dangerous, but also because of
         | the additional hydrological dangers that a sweet whitewater run
         | doesn't have.
        
         | bell-cot wrote:
         | > 100% mortality rate
         | 
         | Translation for pedants: _Lots_ of people die - especially
         | know-it-all idiots, thrill-seekers, and show-offs. We locals -
         | whose taxes pay for the paperwork  & such after each death, by
         | the way - are utterly sick of it. Go earn your bloody Darwin
         | Award somewhere else, arsehole.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | quickthrower2 wrote:
         | What if you capsize?
        
           | Lio wrote:
           | Watch the video he links to and find out. ;)
           | 
           | To me the whole idea of attempting this is like picking a
           | fist fight with a polar bear; complete hubris.
        
           | sio8ohPi wrote:
           | Ideally you roll. If you do wet exit, the helmet and PFD
           | provide a lot of protection. You can see this in the linked
           | video around 3m20s.
        
         | jamal-kumar wrote:
         | I talked to someone in a reticulated pedal boat the other day
         | about how he rescued a kayak instructor from drowning because
         | he could not reverse himself from being turned upside down in
         | front of his own class who didn't realize he was serious about
         | tapping the hull to indicate he needed help. He calls kayaks
         | "death traps". I believe him.
        
         | Thorrez wrote:
         | Is that the Strid? They don't say the name of the location in
         | the video or in the description. It also looks a bit different
         | to me than the pictures and videos of the Strid.
        
           | jupp0r wrote:
           | If you Google "whitewater strid" there are many videos of
           | people kayaking it. Here's another one:
           | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MkPUPxPfFHw
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | paganel wrote:
             | Scary video, someone almost drowns at about the 3:35 mark.
        
             | ricardobeat wrote:
             | The person in the video almost drowned while on a buoyant
             | kayak _and_ wearing a life jacket... doesn't really counter
             | the point of the article!
        
               | permo-w wrote:
               | the upbeat music is really incongruous with the guy
               | practically killing himself
        
               | jollyllama wrote:
               | Such is the life of a daredevil.
        
       | SamPatt wrote:
       | >He was said to have been swallowed by the Strid in 1152 after
       | trying to leap across.
       | 
       | As an American it's always startling to casually see a date that
       | far back in history, and know a specific event such as the death
       | of a child was recorded, and has been remembered for nearly a
       | thousand years.
        
         | CalRobert wrote:
         | Of course, the Americas has a long history, but much of it was
         | systematically destroyed
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_codex .
        
         | AceJohnny2 wrote:
         | As the joke goes: "In the US, 100 years is a long time, in
         | Europe, 100 miles is a long way"
        
           | skerit wrote:
           | I'm from Belgium. Anything over 50 km (30 miles) away should
           | ideally be turned into a weekend-long trip
        
             | RajT88 wrote:
             | Yep. I regularly drive 46 miles to visit my wife's family.
             | The roads are long and straight, and the speed limits quite
             | high.
             | 
             | We get passed on the highway when we're doing 120km/h. I
             | don't imagine you can maintain those kinds of speeds on
             | account of speed limits and winding roads. Possibly takes
             | an hour or three?
        
             | r2_pilot wrote:
             | Ha, (USA - MS here), my mom lives 17 miles(27 km) away and
             | I visit her regularly, and prior to my current job, I
             | commuted 44 miles (70 km) daily for 3 years.
        
             | bergenty wrote:
             | That's like a 25 minute trip if you're on the freeway.
        
             | mod wrote:
             | I own a business that's 124 miles away from my home.
             | 
             | You can guess where I live.
        
             | aidenn0 wrote:
             | My wife attended graduate school 200km away and would leave
             | and return the same day. At least one of the ways
             | (depending on what time the class was) was in stop-and-go
             | traffic for a decent part of it, taking up to 4 hours.
        
           | koheripbal wrote:
           | I routinely drive 10 hours in the US for week long vacations
           | with the kids.
           | 
           | My European relatives can't even believe it when I tell them.
           | They think driving that long is some superhuman ability.
           | 
           | I'm quite content listening to my history podcast for 10
           | hours.
        
         | stevenwoo wrote:
         | Counterintuitively, oral histories (and traditions) have been
         | and may be a better long term store of information than written
         | documents but someone in the future is going to find out for
         | sure! There's the 10000 year Australian aboriginal tales about
         | sea level rise that matched geological data and was on the
         | front page a few years ago.
        
           | Bakary wrote:
           | The information obtained is so fragmented and imprecise that
           | it's not really that useful beyond testifying to the the
           | length of aboriginal history.
        
           | lotsofspots wrote:
           | The oral traditions of the Klamath people describe the
           | eruption that turned Mount Mazama into Crater Lake 8000 years
           | ago, too.
        
       | Taywee wrote:
       | > The most infamous life claimed by the stride is William de
       | Romilly, the son of Lady Alice de Romilly, who owned the land. He
       | was said to have been swallowed by the Strid in 1152 after trying
       | to leap across.
       | 
       | Why was he infamous? I'm not finding much information on him at
       | all.
        
         | mod wrote:
         | I think the death was infamous, not the kid.
        
         | jonasdegendt wrote:
         | The Tom Scott video referenced below claims William was
         | supposed to be the future king of Scotland, I did no further
         | fact checking though.
        
       | aaron695 wrote:
        
       | FridayoLeary wrote:
       | That is a genuine Yorkshire accent (i'm not sure which part), for
       | those that are wondering. At least i think it is.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | pmarreck wrote:
       | An experienced scuba diver should go down there with a bright
       | light and a camera... and a rope leading back to the surface
        
         | RajT88 wrote:
         | A similarly mad plan would be draining it. Create a bypass and
         | then pump out the water from the deep pockets and see what's in
         | there.
         | 
         | I imagine there's some political challenges to that, but from
         | an engineering perspective it's old hat. High likelihood of
         | being sued and shut down by the local government, but low
         | likelihood of anyone dying.
        
         | mint2 wrote:
         | The one tiny issue with that plan is that if they are an
         | experienced scuba diver and were given that request then they'd
         | they'd nope the hell out of the vicinity faster than a human
         | can blink. By definition any scuba diver attempting that is
         | either the most inexperienced one in existence or suicidal.
        
         | stubish wrote:
         | Try a drone first. And after that gets smashed against the rock
         | walls, try a different plan.
        
       | trustingtrust wrote:
       | I thought the water itself was so impure that if you drink it
       | then the mortality rate is 100%. That's what the title suggested
       | to me. But turns out it's the river thats dangerous.
        
         | muzani wrote:
         | Rarely is the article more interesting than the title hints.
        
       | dizzant wrote:
       | The appearance of this article on HN strikes an uncanny valley
       | for me. I independently recalled and told a friend about this
       | river just a few hours ago, having not thought of it or done any
       | digital interactions with the idea in probably more than a year.
       | I searched it on DDG to show a picture. Now, suddenly, it's #3 on
       | HN.
       | 
       | Am I going mad? Is the surveillance state so deep in my
       | subconscious that I fail to notice it's observations? This
       | article isn't even tech related, why is it here?
        
         | shredprez wrote:
         | Either we're all living in your dream (not terribly likely from
         | my perspective) or you've stumbled upon one of life's great
         | joys: the so-called "delusion of reference", a fun trick our
         | minds like to play on us sometimes. Congrats on your unsettling
         | coincidence :)
        
         | jschveibinz wrote:
         | You are not going mad.
         | 
         | Now, just relax. The HN interface to your brain waves is a
         | little noisy right now, and it works better when you are
         | relaxed... /s
        
         | onethought wrote:
         | Or your friend is the OP?
        
         | sbierwagen wrote:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baader%E2%80%93Meinhof_phenome...
        
         | tmpz22 wrote:
         | There's a popular video heavily recommended on YouTube right
         | now which has likely bounced around link aggregators like
         | Reddit, HN, and other blogs etc. Odds are you saw some
         | derivative of that.
         | 
         | This is just the regurgitation of the internet causing a deja
         | vu effect
        
         | ciphol wrote:
         | No, there are thousands of us here, and by chance one of us
         | will have thought of the idea recently, and this time it's you.
        
         | poisonarena wrote:
         | is that what uncanny valley means?
        
           | poisonborz wrote:
           | No, that relates to human aesthetics.
        
         | syzygyhack wrote:
         | Just the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon at work! Or perhaps a
         | synchronicity, if you are inclined to believe in such things.
         | 
         | A similar thing happened to me the last time the Strid popped
         | up on Reddit and HN. It was only a day after I had just
         | returned from a popular walking route which passes alongside it
         | and the Abbey.
        
       | GistNoesis wrote:
       | Some youtuber tried to sonar it to get the depth and also tried
       | throwing some video camera in it but it's muddy and turbulent so
       | it's hard to get the big picture of how it works.
       | 
       | What would really be cool would be to have the 3d geometry of the
       | river, and run it through water simulation software ; put a rag-
       | doll in and see how the current would pull you down.
       | 
       | Constructing the 3d geometry is probably an interesting
       | engineering challenge. Although there exists some off the shelf
       | underwater lidar solutions
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YevvMcc6Zu4 and underwater
       | drones, it's likely to be too turbulent (and with air bubble) for
       | them to stay in place at a known position to work properly out of
       | the box (but maybe not because it seems to be possible to scuba
       | dive the strid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUamSryCUK4).
        
         | madaxe_again wrote:
         | With the way things are going, the easiest route will likely be
         | to wait for summer in a few years time, and to do it whilst
         | it's dry. It has dropped to record low levels several times in
         | the last few years, revealing much of the absolutely tortured
         | pothole-ridden geology beneath, and the drainage which feeds it
         | is failing to get replenished year on year.
        
         | TylerE wrote:
         | Temporary dam/diversion?
        
           | koheripbal wrote:
           | This is what I was thinking. Divert and I bet it would be a
           | treasure trove of archeological findings.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2022-09-22 23:02 UTC)