[HN Gopher] SIM swapper abducted, beaten, held for ransom
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       SIM swapper abducted, beaten, held for ransom
        
       Author : todsacerdoti
       Score  : 143 points
       Date   : 2022-09-21 16:20 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (krebsonsecurity.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (krebsonsecurity.com)
        
       | willcipriano wrote:
       | In one of Sid Myers games he has a quote that always stuck with
       | me "Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may
       | vary, but competition for limited resources remains a constant. "
       | and you can watch that play out here.
       | 
       | Crypto prices are falling and violence around that community goes
       | up. Corporations see the economy going into a recession and start
       | layoffs. I wonder if more fraud, wage theft and illegal tax
       | avoidance happens during economic down turns as well?
        
         | nerdponx wrote:
         | Alpha Centauri? I have a faint memory of Nwabudike Morgan
         | saying a line like that in one of the early game "milestone"
         | cutscenes.
        
         | simiones wrote:
         | CEO Nwabudike Morgan, "The Centauri Monopoly"
        
         | snake_plissken wrote:
         | -Nwabudike Morgan, diamond tycoon
        
         | rudyfink wrote:
         | Adverse issues (e.g., fraud) tend to get noticed more in
         | downturns, because, generally, everyone cares more about the
         | details in those times. In times of plenty, they also occur
         | (perhaps even as much), but people are more willing to let the
         | same behavior pass because everything is going well.
         | 
         | At the risk of stepping too much into the meta, I wouldn't be
         | surprised if there are some innate behaviors from evolution for
         | responding to downturns (e.g., caring more about fairness).
        
           | willcipriano wrote:
           | The innate behavior idea makes some sense. One example:
           | Unemployed married men are something like twice as likely to
           | be divorced as men who are employed. People typically don't
           | say "I divorced him beacuse he doesn't make any money" but
           | suddenly behaviors that were tolerable previously become deal
           | breakers once a man loses his job.
        
             | notch656a wrote:
             | Or you know the gravy train is over and you can get 50%
             | before it drains down to nothing + 20% of his imputed
             | former income drained from the 50% he has remaining + a new
             | man with a job.
        
         | Andrex wrote:
         | Pravin Lal's speech stuck with me even more, it seemed
         | prescient and relevant for how the mid/late-2000s and early
         | 2010s played out.
         | 
         | "As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final
         | century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against
         | tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose
         | their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and
         | vitality, but the free nation gradually constructing its grip
         | on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism.
         | Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in
         | his heart he dreams himself your master."
        
         | gnramires wrote:
         | It's never as simple as simple economic models suggest :)
         | 
         | Some studies indicate poor people are more altruistic:
         | 
         | https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/the_poor_give_...
        
           | meany wrote:
           | I won't express an opinion on who is more altruistic, [edit]
           | because I don't think I have sufficient data to draw a broad
           | conclusion. Studies on college campus like these always seem
           | pretty weak to draw societal wide conclusions from. These
           | tiny experiments are usually conducted on college students
           | and often are not reproduce-able.
           | 
           | "In one of these experiments, the researchers, led by
           | doctoral student Paul Piff, gave participants the opportunity
           | to share $10 with an anonymous stranger. A few days earlier,
           | the participants had all filled out a questionnaire in which
           | they reported their socioeconomic status. The results showed
           | that people who had placed themselves lower on the social
           | scale were actually more generous than upper class
           | participants were."
           | 
           | This strikes me as a pretty weak study to extrapolate to any
           | society wide conclusions.
        
             | Baeocystin wrote:
             | Having spent my childhood in one of the poorer corners of
             | the globe, it tracks with what I experienced, for what it's
             | worth. When folks don't have much, group sharing any bounty
             | received, and being the recipient of others', is how people
             | survive.
        
               | notch656a wrote:
               | It may also be the case that a community more inclined
               | towards socialism ('sharing any bounty') doesn't fair as
               | well, and is disproportionately likely to be poor. Not
               | saying that's the case, but it's one possible explanation
               | of why poor communities would disproportionately exhibit
               | that behavior.
        
               | Baeocystin wrote:
               | I honestly think you have it in reverse. If you and your
               | community are poor, the _only_ way to survive is through
               | cooperation. The folks that didn 't participate? You
               | don't see them _because they didn 't survive_.
               | 
               | So yes, you see cooperative behaviors in the poorest of
               | communities. Because other behaviors at that income level
               | are incompatible with life!
        
               | notch656a wrote:
               | I noticed you countered by using 'cooperation', a word
               | found nowhere in my above comment. I do not think this is
               | an accident, and calling me to have it 'in the reverse'
               | of a word I never said is no doubt a deliberate and
               | misleading framing on your part, although I admit it is
               | rather clever
        
               | Baeocystin wrote:
               | ? I used cooperation as a synonym for sharing the bounty,
               | which is think is perfectly reasonable. Please assume
               | good faith in discussions here. HN is run differently
               | than most internet fora.
        
               | notch656a wrote:
               | >Please assume good faith in discussions here. HN is run
               | differently than most internet fora.
               | 
               | Then I am dissapointed you used this bad faith framing
               | that you find unaccepttable in HN. In no good faith
               | discussion can you entirely swap out the wording to
               | something your counterparty never said, and say the thing
               | they never said they got in reverse. Although it is
               | entertaining how quickly you fell back on an appeal to
               | authority of that's not how things are "run" here. Of
               | course if you want to continue your baid faith
               | discussion, such as inventing words others got 'in
               | reverse', by all means you have some great advice of
               | seeking other 'fora'.
               | 
               | > I used cooperation as a synonym for sharing the bounty,
               | 
               | Sharing a bounty could potentially by cooperative (or
               | uncooperative, if it were forced). On the other hand,
               | using the word this way seems to allude not sharing the
               | bounty is being 'uncooperative.' This would be wrong as
               | there are cooperative systems that do not rely on
               | 'sharing any bounty' and instead rely on a cooperative
               | system of 'selfish' voluntary trade. The sleight of hand
               | here is you tried to by definiton (or 'synonym') exclude
               | the latter out of being considered 'cooperative'.
               | 
               | >cooperation as a synonym for sharing the bounty, which
               | is think is perfectly reasonable.
               | 
               | I find this entirely unreasonable when it is framed such
               | that not 'sharing any bounty' would be uncooperative. For
               | instance, if I have a bounty and a group of people try to
               | forcefully take some to share with themselves, I would
               | call those people the uncooperative ones, even though the
               | effect would be 'sharing' any bouny which you say is a
               | synonym for cooperation.
               | 
               | Of course, if you never meant to allude not 'sharing any
               | bounty' is uncooperative, things might be different, but
               | since you already said you considered 'sharing any
               | bounty' a synonym to cooperation I think it's too late to
               | make that assertion.
        
               | AussieWog93 wrote:
               | Notch, accusing someone of "deliberate and misleading
               | framing" arguments because they didn't use the exact,
               | precise language that you did is assuming bad faith.
               | 
               | Your argument is weak, obtuse and unproductive. He
               | clearly explained why you're wrong by explaining a
               | culture he was deeply familiar with, and your response is
               | a faux-intellectual straw man.
               | 
               | If you can't deal with the fact that you're not the
               | suppository of all wisdom, please get off HN and go
               | outside.
        
               | notch656a wrote:
               | Clearly my argument 'one possible explanation of why poor
               | communities would disproportionately exhibit that
               | behavior' is weak and one saying literally 'other
               | behaviors at that income level are incompatible with
               | life' is not? I've merely made a conjecture, I find it
               | extremely weak, obtuse, and unproductive to just say welp
               | 'incompatible with life' as if that is that.
               | 
               | My argument was a mere possibility. The counter argument
               | was a factual statement about literal 'incompatible with
               | life.' The latter is much stronger, in fact my
               | counterparty made a statement much more closer to how one
               | who believes they are the suppository of all wisdom would
               | behave.
               | 
               | Going back and phrasing this as "sharing any bounty"
               | being synonymous with "cooperation", and then using
               | cooperation in connection with saying I got it in
               | reverse, is about as bad faith as it gets.
        
               | AussieWog93 wrote:
               | Why are you even still arguing about this?
               | 
               | You've already demonstrated that you don't know how to
               | play the "spirited debate" game with other people, and
               | for that reason nobody wants to play it with you.
               | 
               | If you want to get the last word in so you feel like
               | you've "won", go ahead. I'll quiver before your superior
               | and enlightened intellect.
        
               | leephillips wrote:
               | I think I prefer the method used in _The Matrix_.
        
           | notch656a wrote:
           | If you're poor because predators (like police, the courts, a
           | vindictive ex, whatever) take whatever wealth you have, then
           | it might also make sense to be extremely benevolent with
           | whatever you have before you get stolen. Then you'll get the
           | social capital and when your neighbor has a good day you'll
           | get some of that too. Almost like a method of decentralized
           | banking.
        
           | ch4s3 wrote:
           | That makes perfect rational sense to me. You would expect
           | people who may come to rely on charity or who have relied on
           | it in the past to be more charitable now.
        
           | rhodorhoades wrote:
           | I've been to over 40 countries and I can tell you this is
           | true. The people that have the least are some of the most
           | caring people, who will insist on feeding you even when they
           | don't have much food to give.
           | 
           | It is economic disparity that creates violence. Only when
           | villas are in reach of a small poor town do you start to get
           | petty muggings, scams and murders.
        
             | saiya-jin wrote:
             | Can attest to this, numerous times I have been invited to
             | dinner, helped tremendously for no reward and met with just
             | pure humility from dalits (untouchables) when backpacking
             | in India.
             | 
             | I am not claiming that people from other castes behaved
             | badly, in contrary, but when you see how little those
             | people have (ie 3 generations, or 10 members of family
             | sleeping in 1 room 3x3m and that was their whole 'house' -
             | just 4 super basic walls with no roof, nothing else).
             | Coming back to my relatively crappy eastern european
             | country where people constantly complain how poor they are
             | compared to ie germany made me feel sad, ashamed and badly
             | out of touch with my folks...
        
             | AussieWog93 wrote:
             | >It is economic disparity that creates violence. Only when
             | villas are in reach of a small poor town do you start to
             | get petty muggings, scams and murders.
             | 
             | I remember hearing about this in a Jordan Peterson video.
             | The correlation between economic inequality and young make
             | violence is apparently one of the strongest in all of
             | sociology, and still applies regardless of the size of the
             | geographical boundary you draw.
        
           | SkyBelow wrote:
           | Historic studies on altruism often failed to account for all
           | costs or benefits of certain actions. This led to results
           | showing a great deal of altruism that later research
           | overturned when scenarios were better crafted to control
           | costs and benefits. It has been a while since I read the
           | specifics but one example involved sales people who appeared
           | to act altruistic and not take advantage of a seemingly
           | oblivious shopper. Once the study was changed so that the
           | specific sales person who took advantage of the shopper
           | wasn't known to the researchers, only how often it happened,
           | the altruism disappeared. There was a social currency of
           | "appearing to be ethical" that was worth more than taking
           | advantage of the shopper. Once that social currency was
           | removed, the sales people reevaluated which options were most
           | optimal.
           | 
           | This is all to say that any studies on altruism need to be
           | scrutinized to see if some benefit or cost was missed in the
           | experiment design.
        
         | Grimburger wrote:
         | > Crypto prices are falling and violence around that community
         | goes up
         | 
         | Claims like that need a source to back them up
        
           | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
           | Not to speak for them, but there are things to cite in the
           | article:
           | 
           | > Prosecutors say the defendant fired a handgun into a
           | Pennsylvania home, and helped to torch another residence in
           | the state with a Molotov Cocktail -- all allegedly in service
           | of a beef over stolen cryptocurrency.
           | 
           | > Earlier this month, three men in the United Kingdom were
           | arrested for attempting to assault a local man and steal his
           | virtual currencies.
           | 
           | It's not particularly strong evidence that this violence is
           | caused by a falling value but it's also not entirely
           | unreasonable to be left with that perspective.
        
             | willcipriano wrote:
             | Mainly this bit: "Foreshadow's experience is the latest
             | example of a rapidly escalating cycle of physical violence
             | that is taking hold of criminal SIM-swapping communities
             | online. Earlier this month, KrebsOnSecurity detailed how
             | multiple SIM-swapping Telegram channels are now replete
             | with "violence-as-a-service" offerings, wherein denizens of
             | the underground hire themselves out to perform various
             | forms of physical violence -- from slashing tires and
             | throwing a brick through someone's window, to conducting
             | drive-by shootings, firebombings and home invasions."
        
         | lemmiwinks wrote:
         | > "Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may
         | vary, but competition for limited resources remains a constant.
         | "
         | 
         | That quote is discussed a length on this wonderful blog (like
         | others said, it's from SMAC):
         | https://paeantosmac.wordpress.com/2015/07/07/first-impressio...
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | I've started reading a book about systems theory and and that's
         | what the quote made me think of. One flow is restricted and so
         | another increases. I wish I had read the book a long time ago
         | because I've barely started it and I'm already looking at
         | things in a new way.
        
           | maayank wrote:
           | What book? Sounds interesting.
        
             | criddell wrote:
             | _Thinking in Systems_ by Meadows.
             | 
             | The book isn't terribly long and so far it's pretty easy to
             | read.
        
       | LorenPechtel wrote:
       | Gangster attacks gangster. Comes with the territory. Maybe he'll
       | be of some benefit in scaring others out of doing such things.
        
         | jrockway wrote:
         | Sometimes I wonder what the world would be like if criminals
         | had access to a court-like dispute resolution system. Obviously
         | the details are too complicated to ever work out, but there
         | would probably a lot less assault and murder.
        
           | khazhoux wrote:
           | This is basically the premise of The Godfather.
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZHsmb4ezEk
        
           | rolph wrote:
           | criminals have a code of behavior, and a hierarchy. if you
           | look at 1% motorcycle clubs they have a code of behavior
           | among each other.
           | 
           | messing with someones deal[competition] is against that code.
           | 
           | there is a murmuring of the commons that roughly equivocates
           | some sort of due process, mostly pronounciations of a persons
           | character, and qualifying an alibi.
           | 
           | when it comes to prison time there is hierarchy, depending on
           | the nature of the crime, and who "co-workers" are, and
           | unfortunately race often figures in it as well.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | ianceicys wrote:
       | That's strawberry jelly in that photo if I've ever seen it.
        
         | sparrish wrote:
         | Yeah, dried blood on clothing looks brown... not that I'd know
         | that. I heard from a friend, yeah.
        
         | e40 wrote:
         | Yeah, it doesn't look like real blood.
        
         | martin_a wrote:
         | I'm with you on that. I did kickboxing and other things for
         | some years, so I've seen some blood from blunt force.
         | 
         | Blood dries quite fast and/or gets absorbed by the fibers of
         | the clothing and will then turn into a darker shade of red.
         | 
         | Blood has a rather low viscosity. If you beat somebody properly
         | up, there will be lots of little splashes of blood, this looks
         | very "drippy", almost like paint that dropped down. If he's
         | bleeding like that from the mouth, he'd most likely have
         | swallowed some blood coughed it up and all over him. The
         | sweatshirt would look very different at least.
         | 
         | If you beat someone up, you'll also have bruises all over his
         | face. Normally you'd see green and blue eyes and bruises on his
         | face, especially his cheeks. Some slightly missed hits always
         | happen, especially when the opponent tries to duck or move
         | away. This looks too "precise" and accurate for some random
         | beat up.
        
       | Test0129 wrote:
       | The criminal world is dangerous. When large sums of money are
       | involved it becomes even more dangerous.
       | 
       | Seems like a kid who had no idea what he was getting into
       | suddenly found out how dangerous things can become. It's hard to
       | feel bad for the "victim". Not only were they a "plug" for a
       | crime that gains complete control of someone's life, they're also
       | a criminal.
        
       | DrWumbo wrote:
       | I see a lot of commenters here talking about how they have no
       | sympathy for the kid. I think it's important to remember that
       | it's hard out there these days. A life of crime may not be the
       | only option available, but it becomes more and more appealing as
       | access to education or training gets more difficult to afford,
       | inflation increase outpaces wage increases, workers rights aren't
       | expanded.
       | 
       | Dehumanizing criminals is a very privileged way of approaching
       | the world.
       | 
       | What we have here is a child who was failed by society.
        
         | throwawayx134ax wrote:
         | Flip that around. In a very real sense the criminal either
         | chose to dehumanize his victims, or ignore the suffering he was
         | causing (arguably worse). "Do unto others as you would have
         | them do unto you".
         | 
         | Also, some people are just shitheads, and I don't think we can
         | say with any degree of certainty where Foreshadow sits.
        
           | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
           | A person who boldly states their lack of sympathy is acting
           | with a fair degree of certainty in regards to what kind of
           | person they're talking about.
        
           | DrWumbo wrote:
           | There's a lot of shitheads out there for sure and when one
           | commits crimes in which there are victims one makes a moral
           | decision to inflict some kind of harm. Even with that, you
           | can never truly know another person and categorizing who
           | committed crime out of necessity and who is morally devoid is
           | near impossible. I think we tend to judge our peers harsher
           | than we judge our corporate overlords.
           | 
           | Imo this type of crime is a symptom of our broken society
           | more than a symptom of a broken person.
           | 
           | Copaganda and western hero-villain stories teach us from a
           | young age that there has to be a bad guy who needs to suffer
           | for their actions.
        
         | martin_a wrote:
         | > What we have here is a child who was failed by society.
         | 
         | I really embrace your faith in humanity and trying to
         | understand and explain what might have led to this.
         | 
         | But in the end, he chose organized crime. That's where really
         | terrible stuff happens, you know that, if you choose it.
        
           | KennyBlanken wrote:
           | Judging from the photo, the kid has fetal alcohol syndrome.
           | He likely came into the world with few choices.
        
           | DrWumbo wrote:
           | Yeah there's obvious reasons why organized crime is
           | dangerous, but it's designed to lure people in with quick
           | money/protection/sense of identity and then trap them.
           | 
           | The same goes for any behavior where one knows adverse
           | consequences beforehand. I remember I bummed my first
           | cigarette from a stranger one day when I was stressed out as
           | a teenager. When I got hooked on the addictive properties and
           | irreversibility damaged my lungs should there have been no
           | room for empathy?
           | 
           | I'm not saying choosing to view this kid as a victim solves
           | anything or that people should share my view. I want more
           | voices spreading it so people can see there's another way to
           | see the world.
           | 
           | And fwiw like most people my attitude flips 180 when I'm the
           | victim of a crime. I am after all, only human.
        
           | j-krieger wrote:
           | I agree. People who are born wealthy routinely choose crime,
           | if sometimes for no reason other than adrenaline rush or pure
           | greed.
        
         | zac23or wrote:
         | > I think it's important to remember that it's hard out there
         | these days. A life of crime may not be the only option
         | available, but it becomes more and more appealing as access to
         | education or training gets more difficult to afford
         | 
         | No, no. It is a very discriminatory view. Many very rich people
         | are criminals. I'm from a very poor neighborhood, from a third
         | world country. Many of my friends got into crime and died. Many
         | more are hardworking, in my experience it is easier to find a
         | criminal who was born rich than a criminal who was born poor .
         | I don't have much formal education. But using books that was
         | going to waste, I learned programming, etc. And Today it is
         | much easier to learn ANYTHING.
         | 
         | > Dehumanizing criminals is a very privileged way of
         | approaching the world. What we have here is a child who was
         | failed by society.
         | 
         | It's not Dehumanization. Someone works hard, buys something
         | after years of work and gets robbed overnight. When someone
         | defends the criminal in the first place, he is ignoring the guy
         | who suffered without doing absolutely anything to deserve it.
         | It's normal to hate the criminal.
         | 
         | And the poor hate criminals. Defending criminals is a very
         | privileged way of approaching the world.
         | 
         | I am not a favor to kill criminals, etc. But sometimes when you
         | get what you're looking for. And defending very bad behavior is
         | not good for anyone, neither the boy nor society.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | imchillyb wrote:
       | > a lackey for a cybercriminal group that specializes in
       | cryptocurrency thefts was beaten and kidnapped last week by a
       | rival cybercrime gang.
       | 
       | Play that game, and a person is fortunate to survive it.
       | 
       | In other news: Water is wet. Crime groups have rivals. The
       | federal government taxes individuals, corporations, and other
       | governments.
        
         | theandrewbailey wrote:
         | I read the headline and laughed. SIM swappers will get no pity
         | from me. If you play with fire long enough, you'll get burned.
        
       | fatjokes wrote:
       | As Mike Erhmentraut would say, he's part of the game.
        
       | aaaaaaaaaaab wrote:
        
         | mikece wrote:
         | Agreed. I'm glad the kid wasn't killed but I cannot feel sorry
         | for a criminal when something bad happens to them. Hopefully
         | this guy straightens out his life going forward.
        
         | andrepd wrote:
         | Can we stop with the cliche phrase already? That's one of the
         | "reddit ready-made phrases" that annoy me the most, tbh
        
           | chuckSu wrote:
        
           | pc86 wrote:
           | What does the phrase have to do with reddit? I've heard
           | 80-year-old relatives say that.
        
             | renewiltord wrote:
             | Correlation is not causation
             | 
             | I did nazi that coming
             | 
             | Get out of here with your facts and logic
             | 
             | Play stupid games win stupid prizes
             | 
             | Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
             | 
             | There. We're all used up. If you want to make a comment
             | like this, you can just link this one instead. Your 80 year
             | old relatives can just say "FW: FW: FW: Check out this link
             | on the Hackers New". I gotchu fam.
        
               | sebzim4500 wrote:
               | >I did nazi that coming
               | 
               | is the only one I associate with reddit in particular.
        
               | renewiltord wrote:
               | True, but that's because in America they just call
               | American Football "Football"
        
       | jzellis wrote:
       | The heart veritably breaks.
        
       | adastra22 wrote:
       | As a victim of these gangs, I'm sorry but I feel no sympathy.
       | They swapped my sim and called in a SWAT raid on my house while
       | they attempted to take over all my digital accounts. I'm lucky it
       | didn't end worse for me or my family.
        
       | manholio wrote:
       | This type of result is unavoidable with anonymous cryptocurrency,
       | and it will only get worse if we continue to accept anonymous
       | transfers as a legitimate source of income. The new European MiCA
       | regulation goes a long way into establishing traceability in
       | crypto-transactions, but is still short of what's required.
       | 
       | Essentially, the whole current lot of cryptocurrencies should be
       | detached from financial markets because they operate, by design,
       | like a large money laundry service.
        
       | frozenlettuce wrote:
       | your encription might use sha256, but is it resilient to a
       | baseball bat?
        
         | staringback wrote:
         | SHA256 is a hash algorithm, not encryption.
        
           | ailef wrote:
           | Is this kind of nitpicking really necessary especially when
           | the point GP was making is completely unrelated to the exact
           | nature of the algorithm (it applies to both)?
        
             | ajg36 wrote:
             | Yes, otherwise others might learn something that's wrong.
        
             | ozim wrote:
             | Well hashing algorithms are resilient against baseball
             | attacks, I am not able to reverse SHA256 even if you beat
             | me to death.
             | 
             | I think it is important distinction for criminals to know,
             | killing someone because one doesn't understand difference
             | between AES256 and SHA256 is bad outcome for everyone
             | involved.
        
               | ailef wrote:
               | Well, you usually know your password without the need to
               | crack the hash, so...
        
       | zitterbewegung wrote:
       | Note the picture in the post is very graphic FYI.
        
       | viktorcode wrote:
       | Just wanted to remind everyone that insisting on using SMS for
       | 2FA and for notifications instead of push notifications is a
       | deliberate inaction on the part of service providers that creates
       | vulnerabilities and whole sprawling crime underworld.
        
       | binkHN wrote:
       | Wow--I didn't know this stuff was being done. While this has been
       | shouted from rooftops for a while now, BANKS and related are
       | still using SMS to verify things--this is yet another shout as to
       | why SMS should not be used for 2FA.
        
         | DrWumbo wrote:
         | I think part of the challenge is increasing tech literacy in
         | America. Most of my friends and family have trouble
         | understanding password managers or hardware 2fa.
        
           | tomatocracy wrote:
           | I think you're overestimating the problem. Here in the UK,
           | banks send out physical 2FA devices (card readers, little
           | calculator style devices, etc) for those who don't want
           | something eg linked a smart phone app. They're easy enough to
           | use for anyone who can use online banking, and those who
           | don't need or want online banking don't need them.
        
             | DrWumbo wrote:
             | I think you're overestimating Americans
             | 
             | We got credit cards with chips way after Europe. We don't
             | have anything close to GDPR because enough voters don't
             | understand data privacy (and ofc regulatory capture).
        
               | random42_ wrote:
               | Also: sending a check by mail is still a thing.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | Or phone numbers should be treated as infrastructure and
           | given legal protections above simply being at the whim of
           | T-Mobile/ATT/Verizon employees.
        
         | neoncontrails wrote:
         | There's reasons to be optimistic that the solution to
         | preventing this type of attack (which is so troubling precisely
         | because the difficulty of patching it is utterly colossal)
         | might yet be around the corner. Band-aid mitigations, like
         | programmable eSIMs and tethering one's phone to an online
         | identity (as Google Fi does) have existed for a while now,
         | neither of which is an ideal solution. I was surprised recently
         | though by what sounds like credible speculation that Apple's
         | next iPhone release may drop the SIM card slot completely. If
         | true, I'm guessing that could be the Zugzwang that will force
         | mainstream wireless carriers, notoriously allergic to investing
         | in their own infrastructure, to finally make the needed
         | upgrades to achieve a post-SIM card future -- much in the same
         | way, I'm hoping, that the elimination of the audio jack forced
         | the adoption of Bluetooth on even the most viscerally reluctant
         | consumer.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29701887
        
           | jelled wrote:
           | It's not speculation. The iPhone 14/pro dropped the sim card
           | for models sold in the US.
        
       | gw99 wrote:
       | This is the criminal cyberpunk future we've been reading about
       | since the 80s...
        
       | scottmcdot wrote:
       | Note that SMS for 2FA is very different to SMS for account
       | recovery. E.g., remove your phone number as a recovery method
       | from Gmail.
        
       | doctoboggan wrote:
       | I am currently in the middle of an identity theft attack. It all
       | started with someone trying this SIM swapping attack on me.
       | Luckily Verizon prevented it.
       | 
       | After failing to get my number they still were able to access my
       | debit card. Since they didn't have my number they initiated a
       | text bomb attack where I received hundreds of signup and 2FA
       | texts. Buried in the middle of those was a withdraw alert from my
       | bank.
       | 
       | Luckily I spotted it.
       | 
       | All in all this has been a very bad experience for me. While I do
       | feel bad for the violence inflicted on this guy I wish there was
       | something more we could do as a society to prevent people from
       | following in his footsteps.
        
         | smhmd wrote:
         | What steps do you think you'll be taking to never have to deal
         | with this again?
        
           | brightball wrote:
           | Ideally, Verizon should be able to give an "in person only"
           | option for a SIM swap. And that's the default.
        
             | latchkey wrote:
             | Wouldn't a 'plug' working in a store work around that?
        
               | doctoboggan wrote:
               | I've "locked" my number and it requires a transfer PIN. I
               | hope Verizon's systems won't allow a transfer without
               | that pin even with a malicious employee, however I
               | wouldn't be surprised if they are able to override it.
               | 
               | Apparently my attacker had a fake ID with my name and
               | their photo. It's possible a store employee could
               | override the transfer lock if they are sufficiently
               | convinced it's really me.
        
               | latchkey wrote:
               | I've heard many cases of transfer locks being broken.
               | From what I understand, it is even possible to simjack at
               | a higher level than the individual telco.
               | 
               | Thus, I don't even bother with stuff like this, the only
               | solution in my eyes is to not rely on SMS 2FA and if you
               | absolutely have to, at least use a GV number. While GV
               | isn't totally secure either, at least it is disconnected
               | a tiny bit from my cell number and doesn't have humans
               | backing it (we all know that Google never answers the
               | support phone).
        
               | igetspam wrote:
               | There's also a "run in, punch a guy in the face and steal
               | the tablet" method. Can't get around that either.
        
             | adastra22 wrote:
             | I have this setup with my carrier (not Verizon) and it
             | didn't stop me from being victim of a sim swap attack twice
             | thereafter.
        
           | e40 wrote:
           | Freeze your credit at all three of the companies. It's free.
           | It's not that painful to open it when you need it. Everyone
           | should do this ASAP.
        
           | doctoboggan wrote:
           | First I "locked" my phone number disabling transfers
           | (although I suspect this is vulnerable to social engineering
           | attacks).
           | 
           | I have also frozen my credit with the three credit bureaus
           | (the attacker also opened a new line of credit in my name)
           | 
           | I am also closing the bank account that was compromised. They
           | aren't giving me any info but I suspect the attacker got my
           | debit card via social engineering. It was a new account and I
           | hadn't even received my debit card yet.
           | 
           | I have a subscription to a credit monitoring service as well
           | which has proven its worth in this situation.
           | 
           | Otherwise honestly I am not sure what to do. It sucks to know
           | this person has my name, social, phone, and other info. I
           | basically plan to keep my credit frozen indefinitely. I am
           | also disabling text based 2FA for me and my wife wherever
           | possible.
        
             | ajhurliman wrote:
             | You need to give your ssn to so many people over your
             | lifetime and you're essentially trusting that all of them
             | will be trustworthy and secure with it.
             | 
             | This could be easily solved with public key cryptography,
             | but it would also confuse so many people it would be hard
             | to implement.
             | 
             | If there's an upside to the crypto craze, maybe it's
             | teaching people about cryptography basics.
        
         | troon-lover wrote:
        
       | ehPReth wrote:
       | This is a very.. odd question but does anyone know where I can
       | find the video? I'm curious about the details
        
       | Jaygles wrote:
       | I just had to go through a lot of hoops to switch from a physical
       | sim to a new esim on a new phone. My brother had a sim swap
       | attack occur a couple of weeks ago in an attempt we think to get
       | to the small bit of crypto he had. Apparently a sim swap attack
       | was attempted and thwarted again earlier this year but they did
       | not give me any details to me about the attack.
       | 
       | I'm glad our account has this extra protection on it but I'm
       | still going to be going through and removing SMS 2FA on anything
       | remotely important.
        
       | texaslonghorn5 wrote:
       | trigger warning, there's a very violent photo near the top of the
       | page
        
         | mixmastamyk wrote:
         | What does this mean "trigger warning?" Seems to have some
         | political backlash but I never understood the original
         | reference.
        
         | orangepurple wrote:
        
         | notch656a wrote:
         | It's been removed from the page so here's the link:
         | 
         | https://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/fores...
         | 
         | Dude on the right has his finger on the trigger of that
         | polymer80 glock clone, so hopefully it isn't loaded...
        
       | random314 wrote:
       | > "No1 cared about that nigga anyway, he snaked targs [targets]
       | and flaunted it everywhere," Gus said of Foreshadow. "I've been
       | fucked over so many times I've lost millions. I am just a guy
       | trying to make more money."
       | 
       | No matter how evil a person is, they always see themselves as the
       | victim. Every person I have ever met sees themselves as a victim.
       | I am pretty sure Hitler saw himself as a victim as well.
       | 
       | Here the kidnapper, thief and potential murderer sees himself as
       | a victim because he couldn't steal as many millions of dollars as
       | he wished he could. I shouldn't be surprised by this behavior,
       | but it still makes you laugh.
        
       | sizzzzlerz wrote:
       | Fucked around and found out.
        
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       (page generated 2022-09-21 23:02 UTC)