[HN Gopher] Morgan Stanley didn't wipe their hard drives before ...
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       Morgan Stanley didn't wipe their hard drives before giving them to
       a third party
        
       Author : Benlights
       Score  : 56 points
       Date   : 2022-09-20 20:03 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.sec.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.sec.gov)
        
       | baobabKoodaa wrote:
       | The real mistake in this trainwreck was that Morgan Stanley
       | didn't encrypt their hard drives.
        
         | Sebb767 wrote:
         | Fully agreed. People like to complain about disk encryption
         | just being a security theater checkbox in a cloud or datacenter
         | environment, but this is exactly why it is needed.
        
         | kube-system wrote:
         | Many devices that a business might throw away in 2015 may not
         | have been devices that supported full disk encryption out of
         | the box.
        
           | Li7h wrote:
           | >Moreover, during this process, MSSB also learned that the
           | local devices being decommissioned had been equipped with
           | encryption capability, but that the firm had failed to
           | activate the encryption software for years.
        
           | kadoban wrote:
           | I've been using fde since like 2005 or so and I'm not even a
           | bank. Seems like they don't have much excuse?
        
             | kube-system wrote:
             | That's at least two years before even the most forward
             | thinking offices started using FDE on PCs. Bitlocker came
             | out in 07.
        
               | myself248 wrote:
               | Yeah, MS was ultra behind. Scramdisk came out in 1998 or
               | 99 as I recall.
               | 
               | I wasn't working in IT so I have no idea what corporate
               | policy was like at the time, but it was highly
               | recommended in hacker circles. It can't have been that
               | hard.
        
               | Alupis wrote:
               | Rather, things like Scramdisk were _ahead_ of their time
               | and nearly exclusively for enthusiasts and security
               | gurus.
               | 
               | In the early 2000's, any sort of encryption was a non-
               | trivial burden on already slow (by today's standards)
               | systems. Plus the whole export encryption fiasco and
               | more.
               | 
               | I'd say FDE didn't really take off until your mobile
               | devices started to offer it by default, and make it easy
               | enough that regular users don't ever need to think about
               | it. Now pretty much all operating systems support FDE
               | "out of the box".
               | 
               | Saying folks should have been running FDE back in the
               | early 2000's is just absurd, really.
        
               | xoa wrote:
               | Yeah 2005 for FDE would be pretty early adopter
               | territory. On the Mac side Apple launched FileVault
               | version 1 with 10.3 in 2003, but that only encrypted user
               | home directories (IIRC it effectively was an attempt at
               | transparently running a home directory off an encrypted
               | disk image). Actual FDE came with FileVault 2 and 10.7
               | Lion, which wasn't until 2011.
               | 
               | Though at the same time while we've gotten used to banks
               | lagging horribly on tech, given their resources and the
               | sensitivity of the information they deal with an argument
               | can be made that they should be leading not lagging and
               | that cost cutting and lack of leadership interest aren't
               | great excuses for delays. I do think by 2015 yeah that
               | was getting kind of bad. On the other hand, the penalty
               | wasn't much ($35m in 2022 would be worth a lot less to
               | them working back 7 years). It might still have been
               | cheaper to setup FDE back then. Optimistically, there may
               | be Morgan Stanley clients well off enough to mount real
               | private lawsuits or at least take quite a lot of money
               | elsewhere if they're irritated enough, so while this
               | penalty alone might not be much of a lesson about PII
               | perhaps they'll still come to regret it a little :\\.
        
             | luma wrote:
             | Are you running an EMC CLARiiON array with the export
             | encryption option licensed? What works on your desktop
             | isn't really comparable to what Morgan Stanley had on the
             | datacenter floor 10 years ago.
        
               | Sebb767 wrote:
               | Yeah, but they don't have millions of dollars available
               | and they don't store personal information of millions of
               | people. Morgan Stanley is and was clearly able to afford
               | this license and if you need to handle data this
               | sensitive, you must meet the necessary precautions.
        
       | rizza wrote:
       | _Opinions are my own_ As someone who works for a large financial
       | institution, THIS SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED! This could be
       | deeply flawed security and controls processes, a culture of not
       | my problem, their tech leadership being incompetent, or CFO
       | driving CIO /CTO decision making. Either way this is not the sign
       | of a healthy company and the rot likely runs much deeper. You
       | dont make this kind of mistake in this industry at a firm of that
       | size.
        
       | duxup wrote:
       | I used to visit the data centers of some very large financial
       | institutions.
       | 
       | The SoP at those places was that hard drives from the data center
       | NEVER left the building except through a device that destroyed
       | them.... Their security guards were really into checking for them
       | and etc.
       | 
       | It was a pretty common rule across those banks and etc at that
       | time, and that was quite a while ago.
        
         | cm2187 wrote:
         | At the same time I heard several stories of people copying the
         | files onto their desktop hard drives and leaving the building
         | with them when lehman went bust.
        
           | duxup wrote:
           | I didn't see any indication that the hard drives from the
           | data center policy had anything to do with drone's laptops
           | coming and going.
           | 
           | To be clear in one building there were a few thousand people
           | working. When I visited myself and maybe a dozen or two dozen
           | other people in the building had access to the data center.
           | Cameras everywhere, appointment verification, IDs, man traps
           | and all.
           | 
           | I'd visit and go up to the doors and passers by would stop to
           | watch "he's going inside..."
           | 
           | Whatever a random drone was doing with their laptop, that's a
           | whole other issue / policy.
           | 
           | It was even more fun at military sites. NOTHING non essential
           | ever left. You, your ID (they held it), your clothing,
           | glasses... that was all that came out, your laptop and any
           | spare parts were left behind every time. If you went to the
           | very special sites... you also made sure nothing was in your
           | car that you didn't want to lose.
        
         | LinuxBender wrote:
         | Same. We had a "keep your disk" policy with both HP and Dell.
         | Newer managers and directors hated it because they saw the
         | price-tag and did not understand the incredible value it
         | brought to the sales team when discussing security and privacy.
         | We gained significant confidence from large prospects and
         | customers when they learned we physically shredded disks and
         | logged each serial number. This was in addition to the customer
         | data being encrypted at-rest.
        
         | hangonhn wrote:
         | Same. When I used to work at a hedge the standard procedure was
         | to zero them out first. Then retain the hard drives in a
         | closet. Then someone could come periodically to physically
         | destroy them.
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | How was the process governed so that drives actually were
           | wiped before going out the door? That's really the challenge,
           | the humans managing the kit are the weakest link. I do like
           | the comment about drives only able to depart the premises
           | through a shredder.
        
       | snarfy wrote:
       | > "Today's action sends a clear message to financial institutions
       | that they must take seriously their obligation to safeguard such
       | data."
       | 
       | $35 million fine for 15 million customer's PII. The 'clear
       | message' is that a customer's PII is worth about $2. Meanwhile
       | the customers are on the hook for fraud monitoring in perpetuity.
        
         | routerl wrote:
         | "Punishable by fine" means "legal if you can afford it".
         | 
         | Until living, breathing, actual people face real consequences
         | for this kind of thing, any enforcement actions are just
         | theater.
        
           | cyanydeez wrote:
           | For corporations it means, "make sure there's a line item for
           | the fines"
           | 
           | At least humans are mostly controlled by ethics and morals.
           | 
           | Corporations, not so much.
        
         | cyanydeez wrote:
         | 2$ for enforcement.
         | 
         | Isn't like annually worth like $10.
        
       | billybuckwheat wrote:
       | >MSSB hired a moving and storage company with no experience or
       | expertise in data destruction services to decommission thousands
       | of hard drives and servers
       | 
       | Guess the smartest people in the room weren't in the IT
       | department ... Wonder if they chose that _moving and storage
       | company_ because they were a cheaper option.
        
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       (page generated 2022-09-20 23:01 UTC)