[HN Gopher] 'Extremely rare' Rameses II-era burial cave found in...
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'Extremely rare' Rameses II-era burial cave found in Israel
Author : rntn
Score : 118 points
Date : 2022-09-19 08:40 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (phys.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (phys.org)
| webwielder2 wrote:
| The past is shrouded in mystery, but the evidence is overwhelming
| for ancient people having had pots.
| sillyquiet wrote:
| I know this is a joke, but pottery is kind of the road sign of
| archaeology. Pottery can tell all kinds of stories about
| technology levels, trade routes, cultural patterns, foods eaten
| and agriculture (from seed impressions and residues), the list
| goes on. Pottery is pretty important.
| Louzsuo wrote:
| You could also simply rob it, put it on a side table and
| accidentally destroy it while vacuuming your house.
| kurupt213 wrote:
| Ramesses II
| weatherlight wrote:
| I'm confused. "It noted that "a few items" had
| been looted from it in the short period of time between its
| discovery and closure."
|
| and "The cave was uncovered on a beach Tuesday,
| when a mechanical digger working at the Palmahim national park
| hit its roof..."
|
| So since Tuesday it's already been looted? That's unfortunate.
| noworld wrote:
| The date on the article is September 19, so maybe a previous
| Tuesday?
| twblalock wrote:
| I'm not surprised. There is a strong black market for stolen
| antiquities.
| kurupt213 wrote:
| It was probably ransacked by the people who found it
| Louzsuo wrote:
| I somewhere read that there was a news ban but the news was
| spread via social networks and if you reach enough people, some
| looters will pop up.
|
| Sadly, obviously the side had not been guarded well. So some
| idiots destroyed potentially invaluable insights into the past
| for a couple of bucks on the black market.
|
| Although I'm not a fan of penalties I'm thinking about whether
| fines for breaking the news coverage ban would be any
| effective. I mean, tracing the social networks shouldn't be
| difficult.
| topynate wrote:
| Israel has quite a serious problem with looting of antiquities.
| I was talking to an archaeologist a few months ago and
| suggested adopting something like the UK's Treasure Act so that
| people who find artefacts have a way of legally being paid for
| them and was met with blank incomprehension.
| Nomentatus wrote:
| In fairness, there are so many sites in this whole area that
| it is in fact very hard to comprehend how such schemes could
| be implemented.
| shahar2k wrote:
| Israelis also have a serious problem with following rules
| (source: am an israeli) finding workarounds and doing what
| you want is almost a national pastime
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| > a few items had been looted from it in the short period of time
| between its discovery and closure.
|
| I mean, wth? It's 2022 and people are still looting this stuff?
| There wasn't any gold found in the cave, so the value of what is
| taken is lost when it is removed from its context.
| BurningFrog wrote:
| Theft is alive and well all across the planet.
|
| I forecast this trend will continue well into 2023.
| aqwsde wrote:
| Bold claim!
| hutzlibu wrote:
| "so the value of what is taken is lost when it is removed from
| its context."
|
| You can still sell it to collectors. They know the context.
|
| And about the why people still do this in 2022? Probably
| because not everyone is wealthy or interested in accurate
| history.
| ch4s3 wrote:
| They mean the context of where it was in the burial chamber.
| What was it collocated with.
| hutzlibu wrote:
| I meant the context of the burial chamber. For a private
| collector that might be enough.
|
| (and regarding the downvotes above: I _am_ interested in
| history)
| ch4s3 wrote:
| Sure, but it destroys all historical and archeological
| value.
| schnable wrote:
| People like to collect antiquities.
| cromka wrote:
| > There wasn't any gold found in the cave
|
| Well, maybe not anymore it wasn't?
| sharikous wrote:
| What do you mean "still"? Stealing is not something that
| depends on the year we are in.
|
| This kind of looting goes either to collectors (money) or to
| personal trophies in private houses. All things that human
| beings like to have from millenia.
| mjburgess wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whig_history
| jscipione wrote:
| This is an interesting find because it is contemporaneous with
| The Merneptah Stele [0] that declared "Israel is wasted, its seed
| is not" in 1208 BC. This find confirms that ancient Egyptians
| were present in the Holy Land at that time. Although Merneptah's
| claim may not have been entirely accurate with regards to the
| success of his mission in Canaan.
|
| [0] https://biblearchaeologyreport.com/2019/03/08/three-
| egyptian...
| epberry wrote:
| This finding could shed more light on the timing of the so-called
| 'bronze age collapse' which Jared Diamond and Eric Cline (author
| of 1177 BC) have popularized. Cline's conclusion is that the
| collapse began around 1230 and continued on for 50-100 years
| throughout the mediterranean.
| voz_ wrote:
| Be careful citing Jared Diamond on anything, the guy is a bit
| of a disreputable quack and a trap for intelligent folks
| without experience in the field.
| aqwsde wrote:
| Apparently some things got stolen already the first night since
| apparently they did not guard the side properly. :/
| dylan604 wrote:
| That's okay, they probably didn't have time to remove the
| curse(s) protecting them.
| kurupt213 wrote:
| Please curse me with Bronze Age gold
| fortran77 wrote:
| There's a better source here:
|
| https://www.gov.il/en/departments/general/burial-cave-from-t...
| j-kent wrote:
| "In a video released by the Israel Antiquities Authority,
| gobsmacked archaeologists shine flashlights on dozens of pottery
| vessels in a variety of forms and sizes, dating back to the reign
| of the ancient Egyptian king who died in 1213 BC."
|
| Here's some of the videos I was able to find:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wQYrfjv0fw
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLTBzxA1QaE
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| The items are neatly arranged in some places but scattered in
| others. If no one has entered this cave since it was sealed,
| how did the items get scattered? Earthquakes?
| drummond wrote:
| It's a cave and on the beach. Likely flooding of the cave
| moved items and scattered them.
| tablespoon wrote:
| > The items are neatly arranged in some places but scattered
| in others. If no one has entered this cave since it was
| sealed, how did the items get scattered? Earthquakes?
|
| The article said there was some looting that happened after
| it was discovered. Maybe the looters messed things up?
| helge9210 wrote:
| progre wrote:
| 1800 years before the religion was started, thats quite
| something.
| helge9210 wrote:
| Assuming it was never opened before.
| compsciphd wrote:
| considering its supposed age, if there are any muslim or
| arabic artifacts in it, it wouldn't just be an extremely
| rare find, it would overturn all known history.
| Kukumber wrote:
| snake_doc wrote:
| Take your anti-semitism out of HN. Israel's Knesset is composed
| of religious and secular parties, the 2nd largest party today
| is a secular liberal party.
| Kukumber wrote:
| How is that anti-semitism? it's anti-obscurantism, and my
| comment is valid for both Israel and Palestime, as the
| article mentions, both are the bottleneck of humankind, also
| valid for the Church in the US, silencing, hiding and
| destroying Aztec/Maya and Indian heritage
|
| As well as Iraq's heritage, all gone
| invalidname wrote:
| Can you reference a single antiquity destroyed by Israel
| since its formation?
| Nomentatus wrote:
| The odd case is the dead sea scrolls; "Nimmer has shown
| how this freedom was in the theory of law applicable, but
| how it did not exist in reality as the Israeli
| Antiquities Authority tightly controlled access to the
| scrolls and photographs of the scrolls." https://en.wikip
| edia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls#Ownership_dis...
|
| Not destruction, but seeming suppression. (Perhaps with
| more Catholic than Jewish intervention, if memory
| serves.)
|
| Since that time religious freedom, re publication has in
| fact declined in Isreal under pressure from the religious
| right, although this applies more to what can be sold in
| bookstores in Isreal.
| Kukumber wrote:
| I sincerely hope it's a team of international and independent
| archeologists, we should not trust countries with a strong
| religious leadership, they'll either silence, hide or destroy
| anything that goes against their religious narrative
| invalidname wrote:
| Israel is the 3rd or 4th most atheistic country in the world.
| It is NOT a religious country!
| Eisenstein wrote:
| Are there 'somewhat-rare' Rameses II-era burial caves?
| dgfitz wrote:
| I imagine there was until there wasn't. Why do you ask?
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(page generated 2022-09-20 23:02 UTC)