[HN Gopher] Aleksandr Sorokin smashes 24-hour world record with ...
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       Aleksandr Sorokin smashes 24-hour world record with 198.6 mile run
        
       Author : marban
       Score  : 359 points
       Date   : 2022-09-19 13:41 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.irunfar.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.irunfar.com)
        
       | eatwater123 wrote:
       | Link doesn't work for me for some reason.
        
         | sp332 wrote:
         | It took a few seconds to load, but it worked for me.
        
       | mdrzn wrote:
       | > That's 7:15 per mile or 4:30 per kilometer for 24 straight
       | hours.
       | 
       | That's an insane pace to keep up! I couldn't manage an hour of
       | that, it's a real wonder what the human body can achieve.
        
       | liotier wrote:
       | That is 50% of the world record on rollerskates, on Le Man's
       | circuit and 75% of my own 24 hours records on the same... This is
       | beyond my understanding.
        
       | sxv wrote:
       | And he's in his 40s!
        
       | joelrunyon wrote:
       | This type of distance / pace is hard for some people to even
       | grasp. This line helps sum it up nicely:
       | 
       | > That's 7:15 per mile or 4:30 per kilometer for 24 straight
       | hours.
       | 
       | Incredible
        
         | pferdone wrote:
         | So 13.32 km/h or 8.27 mp/h on average.
        
         | speakfreely wrote:
         | Anyone who can run 5 miles at 7:15 pace is a pretty well
         | conditioned athlete. If you can keep that pace for an hour,
         | that shows some determination. Multiple hours is an incredible
         | feat. 24 hours is just suprahuman.
        
           | travisjungroth wrote:
           | The standard to pass the first phase of US Army Ranger School
           | is 5 miles at 8:00 pace. Those aren't pro runners by any
           | means, but shows a standard for a rather well conditioned
           | group of people. They also need to do 49 push-ups and 59 sit-
           | ups in 2 minutes each, plus 6 pull-ups.
        
             | sirsinsalot wrote:
             | I consider myself unfit and can do 10k at 7min/km ... not
             | sure those numbers are right given 1km=.6mile
        
               | travisjungroth wrote:
               | Maybe there's a conversion issue here. The fit Soldiers
               | are running a pace of 8:00 per mile at the slowest. You
               | (self-proclaimed unfit) are running a pace of 11:16 per
               | mile. This is _much_ slower. To change to speed and km,
               | the slowest acceptable speed is 12 kmh. Yours is 8.5 kmh.
               | 
               | Source for Ranger numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
               | United_States_Army_Physical_Fi...
        
               | cainxinth wrote:
               | No one actually "unfit" can run (not walk) 10km
        
               | jeltz wrote:
               | You did some calculation error, the requirement for
               | rangers is 5 min/km or a 50 minute 10k (compared to your
               | 70 minute one). Not that hard to do but requires one to
               | be in decent shape.
        
               | sirsinsalot wrote:
               | My mental arithmetic is shocking. Maybe more shocking
               | than my cardio.
               | 
               | 5min/km is quick.
        
             | zeroonetwothree wrote:
             | I could easily meet the push up/sit up/pull up bar but I
             | can only run 12 min miles for 5 miles. Pretty interesting
             | how uneven is my conditioning.
        
               | lancesells wrote:
               | I can do the running but not the pushups so maybe we can
               | trade
        
               | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
               | You two should buy an extra long trenchcoat and see if
               | you can make it work.
        
               | jeltz wrote:
               | My conditioning is also very uneven. Running would be
               | trivial (I ran a half marathon at 7:55 min/mile a couple
               | of days ago), I could also manage sit-ups just fine,
               | would fail on push-ups (but not by much) but can't even
               | do a single pull-up.
        
               | Cd00d wrote:
               | I'm the same - it's very easy for me to ramp up miles and
               | pace in endurance sports, but I've never been able to do
               | a pull up.
               | 
               | I do notice I weigh 25-30 pounds less than my friends
               | that are same height and waist size. I'm 6'3" and when
               | fit hover a little under 170 lbs, while everyone else is
               | 190-200. I think it's a distinct lack of muscle.
        
           | cafard wrote:
           | Back in the 1980s, a man under 40 had to run a 2:50 marathon
           | to qualify for the Boston Marathon. That's right around
           | 6:30/mile. Quite a few did.
        
             | float4 wrote:
             | Assume 5% can run a marathon (definitely less) and that
             | 2:50 is 90th percentile (definitely higher) and you're
             | still top 99.5%. How is that not an "incredible feat" as
             | the GP called it?
        
               | cafard wrote:
               | Well, because it was me. I regarded myself as a fair
               | recreational runner, but nothing more.
        
             | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
             | But that wasn't a general fitness measure, that was a way
             | to weed out weaker contestants by setting a very aggressive
             | standard. That's aiming to get only elite runners.
        
           | phphphphp wrote:
           | I don't think the first part of that is true. That pace is a
           | ~25 minute 5k which most reasonably healthy adults could
           | build up to quite quickly; you certainly don't need to be a
           | "well conditioned athlete" to do 5 miles at that pace.
           | Anyway, doesn't change your point that maintaining the pace
           | over 24 hours is super-human, very much agreed.
        
             | notacoward wrote:
             | > ~25 minute 5k which most reasonably healthy adults could
             | build up to quite quickly
             | 
             | For 5km, 25:00 would put you into the top 10% (median is
             | 34:37).
             | 
             | https://runrepeat.com/how-do-you-masure-up-the-runners-
             | perce...
             | 
             | That's out of those who post times in measured/timed
             | events, so it would be an even better result compared to
             | all runners, and better still compared to fit people
             | specializing in other sports such as cycling. It's also for
             | all ages. For example, in my own 50-59 age group that would
             | be top 6% (median 36:36).
             | 
             | 25:00 might not be all that impressive when you're looking
             | on Strava, but in a broader context it really is closer to
             | "well conditioned athlete" than to "reasonably healthy
             | adult". BTW, since I know somebody will _ad hominem_ at me
             | if I don 't say anything, I'm on schedule for 1000 miles
             | this year and to that end I run 5km continuously (even on
             | hills) at least once or twice a week. It takes a certain
             | level of dedication independent of how generally fit you
             | are.
        
               | phphphphp wrote:
               | I'm not sure how much I trust those stats. If you look at
               | parkrun results, 25 minutes is definitely not the top
               | 10%. I imagine you're familiar with parkrun, but just in
               | case: parkrun is a weekly, non-competitive, just for fun
               | 5k -- with millions of participants, and all their stats
               | are online.
               | 
               | I picked a bunch of random events from last week's
               | parkrun, and for most of them, ~>1/3rd finish in <=25
               | mins and very few of those times are PBs. I'd be
               | absolutely shocked if being able to do a 5k in 25 mins
               | puts you in the top 10% of runners, in fact, I'd go as
               | far as to say, I think the majority of runners could do a
               | 25min 5k -- where "runner" means "someone who runs
               | regularly" (once per week, which parkrun is
               | representative of).
               | 
               | Click a town name in the "event" column on this page to
               | see various results (includes gender and age group) you
               | can also click through to individual profiles:
               | https://www.parkrun.org.uk/results
               | 
               | If we expand the definition of "runner" to include anyone
               | who runs at least once per year, I think maybe you'd get
               | to the 10% figure you're quoting. The other possibility
               | is that the page you've linked is using marathon times
               | and extrapolating out from those to get 5k times, which
               | is not going to produce accurate results.
        
               | notacoward wrote:
               | Yes, those numbers seem somewhat faster, but the medians
               | I got for the four courses I looked at were still 27:27,
               | 29:02, 27:13, and 28:19. 25:00 is still better than
               | median even among runners who participate in official
               | events, so it still seems true that 25:00 is closer to
               | "well conditioned athlete" than to "reasonably healthy
               | adult". Remember, "well conditioned" doesn't mean an
               | elite marathoner, and "athlete" doesn't mean a
               | professional. If you're running 5km in under 25:00 you're
               | well ahead of the _vast_ majority of human beings.
        
           | Taylor_OD wrote:
           | It's truly incredible. Even most pretty in shape people could
           | not run a 7:15 pace for more than 2 or 3 miles.
        
           | twawaaay wrote:
           | I was 35 when I was able to run 10k in 47m on my first season
           | after I lost 26 kg the previous year. This is about about
           | 7:30 minutes per mile. I was also able to run 5k in 21:03
           | (about 6:47) and at the end of the season a marathon in
           | 4:12:00 (~9:35).
           | 
           | I wouldn't consider myself athletic and definitely not
           | "conditioned athlete". I had no prior history of running or
           | taking up any sports of any kind. Actually, I would be
           | spending very few days doing anything else than sitting
           | straight by the computer, lying down to read a book or
           | standing in the kitchen cooking something.
           | 
           | But I quickly learned to like running and I would push myself
           | to run faster, harder, longer and further and I ran about 900
           | miles between March and October of my first running season
           | with most of the volume in second half as I was ramping up on
           | distance. At the peak I was doing say three 10k days in the
           | middle of the week and then a 20-24k on the weekend every two
           | weeks.
        
             | zeroonetwothree wrote:
             | You ran 900 miles in 6 months but don't consider yourself
             | athletic? Um ok you might want to revise that evaluation.
        
               | gnuj3 wrote:
               | He just wants others to tell him that he is.
        
               | notacoward wrote:
               | The longer this thread continues, the more I think you're
               | right.
        
               | twawaaay wrote:
               | No, I just want to say that probably most of healthy
               | people (well, at the very least men) can, with a bit of
               | preparation, achieve the above mentioned result with no
               | prior history of doing any serious sports. It would
               | require some effort but it is doable in 6 months.
               | 
               | Why does everybody assume this is vanity?
        
               | notacoward wrote:
               | The numbers simply don't agree with you. Instead of
               | repeating myself, I'll just cite my other comment in this
               | thread (including link to RunRepeat).
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32900865
        
               | jeltz wrote:
               | That does not contradict with what he said. If you
               | average 8 km per day I think most men and quite many
               | women would be able to run a 45 minute 10k. You just need
               | to be willing to put in that much hard work and not be
               | obese.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | notacoward wrote:
               | Both I and the person I was responding to cited _numbers_
               | and you come back with  "I think"? Really? Here are the
               | results from the Peachtree Road Race, which is the
               | largest 10K in the US. Only 1036/34877 (3%) of
               | participants finished in under 45:00.
               | 
               | https://www.athlinks.com/event/115192/results/Event/10167
               | 77/...
               | 
               | Second largest is Dick's Sporting Goods Bolder Boulder:
               | 1202/27997 (4%).
               | 
               | https://www.athlinks.com/event/6172/results/Event/1020677
               | /Co...
               | 
               | Third largest is the Cooper River Bridge Run: 549/16053
               | (3%).
               | 
               | https://www.athlinks.com/event/9036/results/Event/1013345
               | /Co...
               | 
               | Clearly, getting under 45:00 takes a _lot_ more than just
               | "hard work and not be obese" - some combination of youth,
               | talent, and _years_ of grinding it out harder even than
               | most other runners. No, not 8km every day; that 's a bit
               | of a tell for lack of direct experience or expertise. I
               | know only a handful of people - including myself but
               | excluding many marathoners - who average even half that
               | beyond a brief (month or two) pre-race training period,
               | and all of us take days off. Any training guide will
               | explain why. 45:00 for 10km is something that most people
               | will never achieve, even with practice and even if they
               | are considered very fit by any reasonable measure. FOr
               | those who can do it, kudos, but let's not hold it up as a
               | meaningful standard.
        
               | jeltz wrote:
               | But your numbers are largely irrelevant. Most people who
               | sign up to races are not regular runners, and do not come
               | close to averaging 8 km per day if you even run at all.
               | If we instead look at a race for regular runners (but
               | still amateurs) we will see vastly different numbers.
               | Also not everyone in a race goes all out, some people run
               | with a slower friend or just run to have fun.
               | 
               | Premiarmilen 2022: 610/1455 (42%)
               | 
               | https://registration.marathongruppen.se/ResultList.aspx?L
               | ang...
               | 
               | Hasselbyloppet 2021 441/1001 (44%)
               | 
               | https://www.marathon.se/racetimer?v=/sv/race/show/4972%3F
               | lay...
               | 
               | Hostrusket 10k 2021: 220/621 (35%)
               | 
               | https://www.marathon.se/racetimer?v=/sv/race/show/5011%3F
               | lay...
               | 
               | Sorry for only citing Swedish races, but from my
               | experience running many races and being a member of
               | running clubs I can say that your 4% is misleading since
               | in many races there are a lot of people who never run. In
               | races where most people run (and many of those still run
               | less than 8 km per day) I expect ~40% of the men to run
               | under 45 minutes.
               | 
               | Edit: That said running 8 km per day is a lot and few
               | people average that outside marathon training programs.
               | Which is also why I doubt even most people running in the
               | races above average close to that much.
        
               | twawaaay wrote:
               | And this matches my experience.
               | 
               | I once joined a 10k without much research. It was on the
               | weekend I wanted to run fast 10k (at the time that was 50
               | minutes for me) and I decided I might want to run it with
               | other people.
               | 
               | The detail I missed was the race was organised by a local
               | sports school to commemorate 50 years of the school and
               | the participants were mostly alumni.
               | 
               | I quickly found myself at the end of the pack and even
               | though finished around 50 minute I was still mostly
               | surrounded by 40 and 50 year olds, everybody younger or
               | my age was far faster than I was.
        
               | notacoward wrote:
               | > Most people who sign up to races are not regular
               | runners
               | 
               | [citation sorely needed]
               | 
               | Yes, some non-regular-runners sign up for a charity 5K,
               | but _as I already said_ that 's much less true for a 10K.
               | "Most" is a drastic overstatement.
               | 
               | > In races where most people run
               | 
               | i.e. where most people fit the definition of "well
               | conditioned athlete"
               | 
               | > I expect ~40% of the men to run under 45 minutes
               | 
               | i.e. 45:00 is still below median. Even by your own shifty
               | definitions, you're refuting your own point.
        
               | twawaaay wrote:
               | I think you might be looking wrong at how big an
               | accomplishment it is to be in top 3 or 4% of random
               | sample of people in a field where a lot of people do it
               | recreationally.
               | 
               | All running events I took part look more or less like
               | this -- there is a line of a dozen or two dozen "serious"
               | people and then there is hundreds or thousands of people
               | that are just doing it for fun.
               | 
               | If you put a random sample of drivers on a track, the
               | person that is half percentile from the top result would
               | still be an amateur with poor result by any possible
               | standard.
               | 
               | Or, think in terms of Settlers of Catan. If you've red
               | any strategy tutorial on how you should properly play it
               | to win the game you are probably in the top 0.1% of
               | players. Does it make you special? Does it make you a
               | professional player? Most certainly not...
               | 
               | I think it is true for a lot of fields, including
               | running, that if you are trying at all, putting any
               | effort, you immediately jump to top percent or two of all
               | participants.
        
               | notacoward wrote:
               | Why do you assume it's _me_ who 's looking at it wrong?
               | Your own PR is "no big accomplishment" by your own
               | standard, despite having worked hard to get it. Does that
               | seem sensible to you? Would you not have taken offense if
               | I had been the one to dismiss it with a hand-wave? You're
               | not even being consistent here.
               | 
               | A lot of people will run a 5K recreationally, but that's
               | much less true of a 10K. Just _completing the distance_
               | puts them in a pretty high percentile relative to the
               | general population. I know a lot of dedicated runners,
               | people who have been running three to six times a week
               | for years, who nonetheless have never run a 10K in under
               | 45:00 and never will. Many of them have never even
               | submitted an official time. They 're not unfit. They're
               | not obese. They're not doing it for fun, either. They're
               | dedicated and often quite competitive; they're just not
               | fast, and many of them couldn't be even with the utmost
               | dedication.
               | 
               | That's why age-grading exists, and it's based on more
               | science than you seem to know. Even elites lose alveolar
               | density and joint flexibility as they age. That's why
               | _all_ of the world records are held by young people, who
               | also dominate all of the top events. Believe it or not,
               | being over 40 is a thing. It 's a significant percentage
               | of the population right there, never mind the younger
               | folks who also range from the disabled through the
               | genuinely lazy to those who are actually super-fit but
               | specialize in other activities or just aren't hyper-
               | competitive enough to devote their time to HIIT and other
               | speed-specific training methods.
               | 
               | > the person that is half percentile from the top result
               | would still be an amateur with poor result
               | 
               | That is simply not true, and it's _strong_ evidence that
               | it 's you who lack perspective. Being within half a
               | percentile of the top is an excellent result practically
               | by definition. "Hanging with the elites" is a ridiculous
               | cutoff. Even the person in the middle of the pack for any
               | of those races I cited is a "well conditioned athlete" by
               | any sane set of definitions. In any room of a hundred
               | random people, they'd stand a good chance of being the
               | fittest one there. Moving goalposts to exclude them seems
               | a bit disingenous.
        
               | sn9 wrote:
               | You're ignoring that he's talking about performance given
               | a certain baseline training volume while you're talking
               | about performance regardless of training history.
               | 
               | It's two very different populations.
               | 
               | This is like someone saying a reliable way of making six
               | figures in the US is to study CS and become a developer
               | and you're responding with the average income across the
               | human population as evidence for why this isn't a good
               | strategy.
        
               | notacoward wrote:
               | > performance given a certain baseline training volume
               | 
               | That would make the argument pretty circular, because _of
               | course_ those two tiny slivers of the population have
               | high overlap. I was trying to assume good faith, despite
               | the venue, and clearly that was a mistake.
        
               | mdtusz wrote:
               | The problem is that you said you're not athletic or not a
               | conditioned athlete, then described exactly what it takes
               | to become a conditioned athletic person - dedication to
               | training and putting in the mileage.
               | 
               | Anyone that can run a half marathon every weekend and
               | 30km+ during the week is almost by definition athletic.
               | Yes, nearly anyone can achieve this with the dedication
               | it takes, but that doesn't change the fact you're being
               | overly humble about your own athleticism.
               | 
               | It's like someone saying "I'm not an engineer, and am not
               | particularly good at math or physics, but I studied 3
               | days a week and got an engineering degree and now I work
               | at an engineering firm and can solve most math and
               | physics problems."
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | bena wrote:
               | Yeah, that's an average of about 5 miles a day.
        
               | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
               | That doesn't seem too long of a run until you realize it
               | would need to be every day without rest days.
        
               | anthonypasq wrote:
               | humans are remarkably good at running.
               | 
               | Granted this was in high school, but I went from huffing
               | and puffing a 3 mile jog to being able to go for
               | leisurely 8 mile runs within a couple months.
        
               | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
               | If you do 8 miles every day my hat is off to you, I find
               | I'm happiest only running 4 days a week.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | cafard wrote:
         | Back in the 80s, Yannis Kouros seemed to be able to crank out
         | 6:30 miles for many hours a day, for several days in a row. But
         | I don't remember how many hours--eight or ten maybe.
        
           | stevesimmons wrote:
           | Yannis Kouros was a legend. When I was a teenage, he was a
           | 5-time winner of the Sydney to Melbourne Ultramarathon, from
           | 1985 to 1990. The distance was 800-1000km. It took 5-6 days,
           | running non-stop.
           | 
           | He was so much better than everyone else that "in 1988, the
           | race organiser challenged him to start 12 hours behind the
           | rest of the field. Kouros overtook his competitors and won
           | the race with a one-hour lead over New Zealander Dick Tout."
           | [1]
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_to_Melbourne_Ultrama
           | rat...
        
             | cafard wrote:
             | Thanks!
             | 
             | Several years ago, I was running in Rock Creek Park when a
             | couple of men in their twenties passed in the opposite
             | direction, and were apparently discussing Yannis Kouros. He
             | isn't or wasn't forgotten.
        
         | darkwater wrote:
         | Wow that's better than my personal record for a 10km run.
         | Obviously you cannot compare yourself against the top1 guy in
         | an endurance race, and not even against the top1000 but it's
         | still mind-blowing how something that required a lot of effort
         | (physical AND mental to be constant enough during training) for
         | a normal human being can be literally nothing for another human
         | being.
        
         | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
         | I can't even imagine. I'm gassed at that pace after a couple of
         | KM.
        
           | js2 wrote:
           | I have a 1:28 half-marathon PR, a 3:07 marathon PR, I've
           | twice run 100 miles in under 24 hours, and I can't imagine
           | even more.
           | 
           | That said, the marathon WR is 2:01:39 which is 4:38.39/mile
           | (2:52.98/km). So Sorokin is running about 55% slower than
           | that, or what would be considered an easy pace for an elite
           | marathoner. AFAIK, we have yet to see an elite marathoner
           | transition to ultras. However, there are quite a few elite
           | ultra-marathoners who run marathons. The one I'm most
           | familiar with is Michael Wardian:
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Wardian
           | 
           | He's run both a 2:17:49 marathon and finished 15th as Western
           | States (19:32:07).
           | 
           | And to be clear: I'm not diminishing Sorokin's amazing
           | accomplishment here. I've run a 24 hour race. I got to 105
           | miles. I'm just noting what the best in the world are capable
           | of at different distances.
           | 
           | Humans are amazingly adaptable. I'm reminded of Howard
           | Schatz's Athlete series of photographs:
           | 
           | https://www.boredpanda.com/athlete-body-types-comparison-
           | how...
           | 
           | https://howardschatz.com/human-body/athletes/
        
             | troon-lover wrote:
        
         | hammock wrote:
         | Eight gallons of gasoline
        
           | ar_lan wrote:
           | This is a frighteningly-cool insight. If I think about a
           | single marathon, that's roughly 1 gallon of gas for my own
           | car. I don't know how to translate that to human fuel, but it
           | is crazy to me to think that that is not an insignificant
           | amount of fuel the human body needs to burn to do the
           | equivalent of a car.
        
           | elil17 wrote:
           | Humans are much more energy efficient than cars, so it was
           | less than 3/4 of a gallon (100 kcal/mile * 200 miles = 20,000
           | calories = 0.7 gallons of gas or about 6 pounds of body fat).
           | He's probably much more efficient than 100 kcal/mile though.
        
             | fpoling wrote:
             | Energy efficiency per distance of running improves very
             | little with training. According to the book "Burn" by
             | Herman Pontzer we are talking about few percents, not even
             | 10%.
        
               | nonameiguess wrote:
               | That is presumably talking about differences in metabolic
               | and mechanical efficiency, but assuming those are held
               | equal, energy output still scales linearly with work
               | performed, which is directly proportional to body mass,
               | and energy loss from atmospheric and wind drag is going
               | to operate similarly. Simply being smaller and having a
               | slimmer profile will result in less energy needed per
               | unit of distance compared to an average person.
               | 
               | That said, Aleksandr is smaller than an average 40 year-
               | old man, but actually pretty large for a distance runner,
               | 20 kg heavier than the current world record holder in the
               | marathon.
        
               | elil17 wrote:
               | Just being skinny probably makes him more efficient than
               | average.
        
             | ars wrote:
             | That's not true, Humans are not more energy efficient than
             | cars. Rather Humans are lighter than cars.
             | 
             | A car as light as a human would get something like 1,000mpg
             | (probably a fuel cell with an electric motor).
             | 
             | https://sites.google.com/view/ebikestudy
        
               | elil17 wrote:
               | That's a bit like saying a Honda Civic aren't more
               | efficient than an Abrams tank because the Civic weighs
               | less. They don't have the same capabilities, but one is
               | gonna win on MPG for sure.
        
             | zeroonetwothree wrote:
             | Doesn't this ignore the energy loss from eating and growing
             | the food?
        
               | elil17 wrote:
               | Yes, it does
        
             | ReptileMan wrote:
             | When I was cycling I was joking that the bike is not much
             | greener than the car, because it burns 4 ribeyes/100km or
             | 17 miles/ribeye.
        
               | elil17 wrote:
               | I read somewhere that if you're not at least mostly
               | vegan, e-bikes actually have lower lifecycle carbon
               | emissions than bikes because you end up burning fewer
               | calories and eating less (assuming you don't substitute
               | in more exercise).
        
               | jvm___ wrote:
               | So. Lithium battery powered humans would emit less carbon
               | than regular humans?
        
               | zeroonetwothree wrote:
               | They would since we could charge them using PV instead of
               | wasteful bovines.
        
               | snewman wrote:
               | That makes a lot of sense. Intuitively (I haven't tried
               | to run numbers on this), the big efficiency problem with
               | a car - gas or EV - is not that it's using "unnatural"
               | forms of power, it's that you're hauling a 3000 pound
               | vehicle around with your 160 pound human. It's easy to
               | believe that photovoltaic power -> modern battery ->
               | electric motor is far more efficient than photosynthesis
               | -> animal digestion -> human digestion -> human muscle. I
               | wouldn't be shocked if that held up even on a vegan diet,
               | though the difference would be a rounding error compared
               | to the emissions from other aspects of our lives.
        
               | hammock wrote:
               | Yes, sedentary lifestyles require less overall energy
               | input vs. active ones
        
               | zeroonetwothree wrote:
               | It's plausible especially if you use PVs to charge. But
               | what about the costs in producing and disposing of the
               | batteries?
        
               | iancmceachern wrote:
               | Side note - comments like this are why I come to HN.
               | Thank you.
        
               | zeroonetwothree wrote:
               | If we consider the average diet bikes are still around
               | 1/3 the emissions of cars per mile. Obviously if you eat
               | only meat that gets worse but I doubt it's possible to
               | exceed car emissions this way.
        
               | ars wrote:
               | This has some data:
               | https://keith.seas.harvard.edu/blog/climate-impacts-
               | biking-v...
               | 
               | According to Table 1, a meat eating biker emits more CO2,
               | than a double-occupancy Prius.
               | 
               | I suspect an EV would completely tip the table in favor
               | of driving.
        
             | hammock wrote:
             | It's 8 gallons if he were to drive. Cars weigh more, but
             | the human body doesn't have an internal combustion engine
             | built into it.
        
       | dmos62 wrote:
       | I've started running and an unexpected challenge is boredom. The
       | running is challenging as is, but doing it for ~1h30m has been,
       | for me, well, tedious. I guess that's a byproduct of always being
       | within arm's reach of a phone.
        
         | sz4kerto wrote:
         | This is one of the major benefits of LSD (long, slow, distance)
         | running, especially for people who have (a slight) ADHD (like
         | me).
         | 
         | It allows you to have solitude. I can't sit down and think
         | quietly for an hour, because I .. just can't cope with the lack
         | of stimuli. Running provides some baseline stimulus at least
         | (plus I always set a specific goal, either a distance or a time
         | goal so that I don't give it up), so I just need to survive the
         | first 30 mins and then I get in the flow to some extent. Most
         | of the good work I've done was actually done during long
         | weekend runs -- then I have the week to actually do what I
         | figured out during the run.
        
           | Taylor_OD wrote:
           | I've never done super long runs (anything over 20 miles) but
           | I just find it too boring. I can listen to a podcast or
           | something but unless I'm running in a new area its just
           | moving kinda slowly through spaces I've already seen.
           | 
           | I've switched to biking now which tends to help my restless
           | mind much more. I'm moving faster, I have to lock in more
           | because when I'm going 15 mph or higher I cant zone out like
           | I do when I'm running, and I can see more/new places if I
           | want to.
        
             | sz4kerto wrote:
             | Huberman talks about this in his podcast - he says that
             | "don't stack dopamine". In this context - try to run
             | without podcasts, then you'll enjoy more running and
             | podcasts too.
        
               | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
               | Huberman must be one of those guys who experience the
               | runner's high - I can't say I ever have, so podcasts and
               | running is about getting back to normal rather than
               | multiplying the happy.
        
           | alar44 wrote:
           | Yeah that's why I MDMA (mid distance medium acceleration) I
           | get the same benefits.
        
             | jjslocum3 wrote:
             | You might instead try THC (technical, high-cardio) running;
             | it takes up less of your weekend.
        
               | edmcnulty101 wrote:
               | Crack is also good for weight loss. The crystallized form
               | of cocaine.
        
               | x-n2o wrote:
               | There are of course, other METHods to go about it.
        
               | agumonkey wrote:
               | The trend these days is Cardiac Basal Distance. Works
               | best on low altitude.
        
           | eagsalazar2 wrote:
           | I experience this same benefit from a walking desk. I thought
           | it would be distracting but somehow that 10% of my brain
           | being occupied by walking actually makes it way easier for me
           | to focus otherwise.
        
           | agumonkey wrote:
           | I think I'm biologically [0] wired like this. I feel good
           | when I'm deeply active. Running makes my mind wander, my body
           | better (deeper breathing, more cardiac activity). Bonus point
           | when I get runners high.
           | 
           | [0] I've heard my grand parents were also never ending
           | workers.
        
           | roddux wrote:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32897812
        
           | collegeburner wrote:
           | this is assuming you can manage the long part... my trash
           | cardio got me wheezing after 15 minutes jog and walk
           | alternating.
        
           | Dangeranger wrote:
           | My ADHD symptoms have been drastically reduced after running
           | daily for the past couple of months.
           | 
           | Even while using medication, running improves results on top
           | of what I had been seeing. It also helps to have a physical
           | challenge to complete every day in order to maintain a
           | routine.
           | 
           | For my body, I need about 90 minutes of challenging physical
           | exercise every day, or I start to seek stimulation in any
           | form I can find, which is usually distracting from my primary
           | goals.
        
             | ativzzz wrote:
             | One of the top recommendations that pretty much every ADHD
             | resource mentions is regular exercise. To be fair, running
             | (exercising) daily will help pretty much everyone's mental
             | health significantly.
        
         | fritzo wrote:
         | Gosh I find it takes a lot of mental effort to monitor the body
         | while running. I spend a lot of mental effort balancing
         | exertion among muscles (left-right, calf-quad-glut, legs-arms),
         | tuning pace, "shifting gears" in terms of breaths per stride
         | when terrain slope varies.
        
         | dahart wrote:
         | FWIW, two things that help for me: 1- trail running, especially
         | longer distances. Spending 4 hours and going 20 miles one way
         | through the woods gives me a sense of travel and distance and
         | freedom I can't get in the city. 2- listening to something
         | while I run, podcasts or music or language lessons like
         | Pimsleur. For a short 30 min run, sometimes even pace music
         | works for me, even though it seemed like it could be more
         | boring, running to a good 170 BPM playlist is kinda fun. For
         | both of these, mixing things up a lot is helpful for me too,
         | always finding new routes and new audio to go with.
        
         | Analemma_ wrote:
         | I listen to techno/EDM-- which in any other context I can't
         | stand context-- and that was the discovery which helped a lot
         | with the boredom issue. I've tried listening to
         | podcasts/audiobooks, but I either lose focus on running or the
         | words.
        
         | kendallpark wrote:
         | Try a run that is much longer (eg, 3 hours), then see how your
         | 1.5 hour run feels. Usually you need a larger-than-normal
         | stimulus to elicit adaptation. In my experience, the mind
         | adapts to these things and will essentially learn to shut off.
        
         | jinto36 wrote:
         | I treat it as meditative, "connect with nature" time.
         | Treadmills, however, are indeed terrible, but then it's easy to
         | watch things. I was never a fan of listening to things while
         | running, some combination of having to have volume high enough
         | to cover the wind noise, and wanting to maintain situational
         | awareness.
        
         | Accacin wrote:
         | That's one of the things I love about running, after about 12
         | hours I even stop having things to think about :D
        
         | ordu wrote:
         | You need to repeat it many times. Then your mind will grasp the
         | idea: you run marathon, you get endorphins, you feel good. When
         | conditioning kicked in, it wouldn't be such a boring
         | experience.
        
         | airstrike wrote:
         | I have a terrible solution for this, which is to run indoors on
         | a treadmill (or do any similar form of cardio) and watch
         | Netflix while on it
        
         | chipgap98 wrote:
         | I think that's also an upside of running. It's a forcing
         | function to be away from screens and occupy your own mind.
         | 
         | Though music or podcasts can be a nice way to break up the
         | monotony if you are struggling
        
           | fallat wrote:
           | This. It forces you to start actually using your imagination
           | again, and your current working memory to work on problems
           | being away from things.
        
         | foobarian wrote:
         | My problem with running was knee malfunction. I don't know how
         | people do it short of just accepting the damage and/or getting
         | mechanical replacements.
        
           | Dangeranger wrote:
           | Try going for shorter distances, at slower speeds, with less
           | hills, more often.
           | 
           | Make sure that you have 2-3 rest days per week for the first
           | 60-90 days, then it's okay to start ramping up by adding 10%
           | more miles per week.
        
           | doc_gunthrop wrote:
           | I had some knee pain issues (likely caused by ITBS) last year
           | when I increased my running frequency. Not wanting to rest
           | for more than a few days, I'd still go running and then just
           | reduce to a walk when the pain became unbearable.
           | 
           | I researched and found a few helpful tips that helped
           | eliminate the problem. One was to correct my running form.
           | Overstriding will kill your knees; don't let your upper body
           | lean back from your lower body. Your body should be
           | vertically aligned, head to foot, with each landing (though a
           | slight forward tilt of your torso is fine). Another tip is to
           | incorporate lower body strength exercises. Lastly, be sure to
           | do stretches after (at least half of) your runs.
           | 
           | These days I run almost daily and experience no knee pain. At
           | my current rate I'm on track to finish 2000 miles for the
           | year.
        
           | sritchie wrote:
           | I wouldn't say it's a given that running torches your knees -
           | mechanics, flexibility and musculature make a big difference.
        
           | andscoop wrote:
           | Damage from running, while not unusual, is not the default.
           | Running does not wear out the knees long term.
        
           | voisin wrote:
           | Go slower, allow your musculature to adapt. The aerobic
           | system adapts quickly and then beginners go farther or faster
           | to "feel" the same challenge but the musculature adapts more
           | slowly and then injuries occur.
        
           | dilyevsky wrote:
           | Fix your form and/or weight. Unless you're doing technical
           | trails or sprinting knees should never have any issues
        
           | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
           | Everyone has had good points about conditioning, but I'm
           | surprised no one has said it yet - fresh running shoes. I go
           | through a pair each year. Until your body has adapted it's
           | very important to have a good pair of supportive but
           | cushioning shoes.
        
             | Aromasin wrote:
             | I have the strictly opposite advice to recommend. Ditch the
             | cushioning completely. I had stress injuries every year
             | until swapping to barefoot shoes, and have experienced none
             | since. It changed my gait and allowed my stabiliser muscles
             | to actually function. Could not recommend it enough.
        
               | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
               | Were you experiencing knee pain? It could be possible you
               | were at a level were your tissues were adapted enough to
               | able to accept that additional straing. And I would
               | stress that works for you probably won't for others - as
               | a few counter examples, Mr Sorokin was wearing shoes with
               | cushions during his run, and other elite runners who grew
               | up running shoe-less, such as Haile Gebreselassie, run
               | with shoes.
        
         | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
         | I queue up podcasts or audio-books and use it as uninterrupted
         | me time, though I do find audio-books harder to listen to on 2+
         | hour runs just because my mind tends to wander by that point. I
         | find that podcasts are easier to mentally tune in and out of.
        
           | yreg wrote:
           | For me it's the only time (perhaps other than driving) I can
           | truly focus on an audiobook. Ideally a nonfiction one, so it
           | can be paused until the next workout at any time without
           | creating a cliffhanger.
        
           | hombre_fatal wrote:
           | When I find a particularly engaging audiobook, I reserve it
           | only for running. Works really well. I've done extra laps
           | just to hear more of the book.
        
         | jononomo wrote:
         | You get more benefit from just walking, I believe.
        
         | Dangeranger wrote:
         | For the past year I've been running a lot, and I've found that
         | listening to podcasts and/or audio books is a great way to stay
         | cognitively engaged with something other than the physical
         | sensations of running, as a bonus you get to learn and
         | experience cool stuff.
         | 
         | There is also a benefit to running without audio, in that you
         | have a chance to let your imagination go wild, or try to focus
         | hard on your breathing, cadence, and form, but I can understand
         | that being challenging for many people to do for an hour or
         | more at a time.
        
           | __mharrison__ wrote:
           | I also second running without audio stimulus. Your brain can
           | do some wonderful things when left to its own devices.
        
         | tibbon wrote:
         | I joined a Hash House Harriers group, which helps a lot with
         | boredom. It's running somewhat chaotically in the woods, and
         | you're constantly needing to find the trail. Its quite social.
         | There are some cultural aspects around drinking and such that I
         | don't love, but overall it is a net positive and far more
         | engaging than other types of running for me.
        
         | CitrusFruits wrote:
         | I've been a runner for a long time and this is absolutely a
         | thing, it's not just you. Running do over an hour gets boring
         | unless you're trail running and have different scenery to look
         | forward to. That being said, a lot of people get bored (or
         | worse, are actively displeased) much quicker and can't even run
         | without music to entertain them.
        
           | phasersout wrote:
           | I run without any noise and sometimes I do when the track
           | goes through a nice forest or so. But for anything longer
           | than 3 - 5 km there is gladly no shortage of music-playlists,
           | podcasts or audio books to choose from.
        
           | peter422 wrote:
           | FWIW I can run without music and find it pleasurable, but I
           | get much, much more joy out of running with music.
           | 
           | I don't think there needs to be any judgement for somebody
           | who "needs" music to run. Music is great!
        
         | jan_Inkepa wrote:
         | For me I've always found running outdoors engaging, but
         | swimming laps becomes quickly tedious. I once as an experiment
         | did a half marathon on a circular sports centre track to see
         | how it compared and it was awful.
        
         | ghastmaster wrote:
         | I started with this problem when I first started running. Once
         | I was conditioned, the boredom went away. I was only doing 45
         | min. I was on an outdoor trail with different paths through
         | different environments I could choose from.
        
         | BurningFrog wrote:
         | That's why I can't do running.
         | 
         | I can't get over the fact that it's a painful way to get from A
         | to A. Some optimizing party of me is always screaming WE COULD
         | JUST HAVE STAYED AT A!
         | 
         | Now, if they're is a ball to chase and a game to win, I can run
         | until I fall over...
        
           | zecaurubu wrote:
           | I'm the same, but I found out I really like rucking (weighted
           | marches). Grab a backpack, put some weight on it, and take a
           | walk around your neighborhood while listening to a good
           | podcast. Currently I walk 4-5km with a 14kg backpack, 3-4x a
           | week. Some more details here:
           | https://www.artofmanliness.com/health-fitness/fitness/the-
           | be...
        
           | yamtaddle wrote:
           | Exactly the same, plus the weird effect that when I finish a
           | run I spend the rest of the day feeling like I'm coming down
           | with the flu, while if I play a ball-chasing game so
           | intensely that I puke, I feel invincible the rest of the day
           | (win or lose). All in my head, I guess, but I can't shake the
           | feeling that one leaves me _unhealthy_ while the other leaves
           | me _healthy_. Really strange--and that, on top of one being
           | the most boring thing I 've ever done on purpose and the
           | other being really fun.
           | 
           | So yeah, running... not for me.
        
             | ryeights wrote:
             | You might be overtraining! While a more intense run can
             | certainly have that effect, especially to a new or
             | infrequent runner, a light effort jog (zone 1 heart rate or
             | below) usually leaves you feeling better than you started.
        
               | sirsinsalot wrote:
               | This. When I over train my body just rattles with
               | impending doom anxiety for days while I feel like I have
               | a bad cold.
        
           | onychomys wrote:
           | I love long bike rides, I do 40 miles most weekends. Then
           | when I occasionally try running, all I can think is how
           | incredibly slow it is. It's all the pain of exercising
           | without the fun of actually going anywhere!
        
           | bumby wrote:
           | I was the same way, but it helped that I've more recently
           | made a conscious effort to be process focused instead of
           | outcome focus. Oliver Burkeman's book _Four Thousand Weeks_
           | was good at reframing for me.
        
           | ThePadawan wrote:
           | > I can't get over the fact that it's a painful way to get
           | from A to A. Some optimizing party of me is always screaming
           | WE COULD JUST HAVE STAYED AT A!
           | 
           | I feel absolutely the same... about taking a walk. That seems
           | incredibly pointless, as you say.
           | 
           | However, if I jog the same route, I burn X kcal, and after
           | dieting for a while, I know how much X is, weighed in food.
           | Very tasty food, this long into a diet. That makes it
           | incredibly easy to instead go for that jog.
           | 
           | It's incredibly weird. I can also take a 1h walk no problem
           | to go buy milk at a shop 30min away. That ticks a box, so
           | it's a Job Well Done for my brain.
        
           | kiba wrote:
           | You're running way too hard. Focus on zone 2, and it ain't so
           | hard. Of course, you do want to go faster, but these training
           | should be the minority of your run.
        
           | oliwary wrote:
           | Have you tried something like Zombies, Run?
           | 
           | It is kind of a gamified running game, with audio clips and
           | interactive elements. For example, at certain times zombies
           | appear and you have to increase your pace for a bit. In the
           | meantime you follow a story about a post-apocalyptic world,
           | with characters etc. I tried it for a while, worked pretty
           | well!
           | 
           | https://apps.apple.com/us/app/zombies-run/id503519713
        
           | capableweb wrote:
           | > Now, if they're is a ball to chase and a game to win, I can
           | run until I fall over...
           | 
           | Well, there's the solution :) Make a game out of it. Some
           | find it helpful to reward themselves if they can reach some
           | sort of goal (under X minutes per km) and not otherwise, then
           | you have something of a game.
           | 
           | Otherwise, if you're a bit competitive, find another
           | competitive friend and compete who can run for longest
           | without giving up. Loser buys the other one beers for
           | evening.
        
             | BurningFrog wrote:
             | I run Bay To Breakers done years, and it's _vastly_ easier
             | surrounded by people who also run.
             | 
             | Even though they're complete strangers, there is some
             | social pressure to keep going.
             | 
             | I'm sure a running group could also work for me.
        
         | cainxinth wrote:
         | Music, podcasts, audiobooks, calling a friend... there are
         | plenty of activities that can keep you entertained while
         | running. I like to download comedy specials and rip the audio
         | for my runs.
        
         | neilv wrote:
         | When I ran (casually), there seemed to be three non-boring
         | factors:
         | 
         | * Running through the city, there's the changing scenery, and
         | also being very careful about constant tripping hazards, cars,
         | pedestrians.
         | 
         | * Running on a treadmill or in an empty university track lane,
         | you can hit a sustainable pace in which you can just zone out
         | and think.
         | 
         | * The exertion, and trying to manage that and not be injured,
         | while keeping going, wasn't pleasant, but it wasn't boring.
         | 
         | When a combination of fatigue and boredom did strike, on a
         | track, I'd stretch the slow jog to the nearest lap mark, then
         | suddenly sprint another half lap just by telling myself I could
         | and this was the time for it, and then be glad everything
         | worked and didn't explode. (I'm not sure this was a good idea,
         | physically, but it was emotionally reassuring and symbolic.)
        
         | psychomugs wrote:
         | I run enough for others to classify me as a runner, and they
         | are always surprised when I say that I almost never listen to
         | music or bring anything more than a watch.
         | 
         | For me, having to deal with The Suck and be alone with yourself
         | and your feelings is part of the challenge.
        
           | ericmay wrote:
           | I don't run as much as I used to but empathize with this.
           | It's fine to mix it up too. When I was doing longer runs I'd
           | listen to a long podcast.
           | 
           | With weight lifting and higher intensity exercise I make a
           | point to _not_ listen to music to build up a tiny bit of
           | mental toughness and be stuck with The Suck and also myself.
           | Music is a crutch.
        
             | psychomugs wrote:
             | I do listen to music cached on my Apple Watch every now and
             | then, but I got it primarily for quick voice note taking.
             | Many an idea - most bad, some great - were birthed from The
             | Suck.
        
           | inkcapmushroom wrote:
           | I don't run but I do a lot of walking. My mind wanders a huge
           | amount during my walks, which I find nice. I am usually so
           | focused on preventing my mind from wandering, even in leisure
           | activities, for example by focusing on a movie or book.
           | Sometimes I stay up later because it means I'll fall asleep
           | quicker and not be alone with my thoughts waiting for sleep
           | for as long. But I think there's a definite need in the human
           | mind for time to sort things out internally, even if (and
           | maybe especially if) there's thoughts you're trying to escape
           | from.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | Same. I do not now what the definition of meditate is, but I
           | imagine I come close to it while running.
        
       | brink wrote:
       | He's also 40 years old, impressive for that age!
        
         | stjohnswarts wrote:
         | I would say it's impressive at any age.
        
         | jeltz wrote:
         | Not really, actually. Most ultra runners are over 40 so he is
         | pretty young and hopefully has a long career in front of him.
         | Still extremely impressive of course.
        
         | xhrpost wrote:
         | About to turn 41. Amazing how old you can be as a runner and
         | still be world class in some metric.
        
           | inerte wrote:
           | I didn't know who he was and after reading about the pace in
           | the article I decided to search YouTube for a video of him
           | running, just to see how fast he's going, and instead found
           | this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSLyzAH9Y0A
           | 
           | Apparently he weighted 100kg, was a smoker and a drinker,
           | quit both and started running in 2012, only 10 years ago in
           | his 30s. Amazing.
        
       | bergenty wrote:
       | This has to be with substances
        
         | drumttocs8 wrote:
         | Yep, if anything I'm fascinated by the advance in science in
         | this area. It's amazing how much work is being done in human
         | longevity and healthspan that isn't "publicly" funded.
        
         | stjohnswarts wrote:
         | yeah I'm sure he used chemicals to get him to the finish line.
         | I mean everyone does, it's how human bodies work.
        
         | manholio wrote:
         | One could safely assume he drank and ate some substances during
         | this event.
        
           | lake_vincent wrote:
           | The guy was _clearly_ juiced up on dihydrogen monoxide.
        
             | toss1 wrote:
             | Could be, but I think he was using hydrogen hydroxide
        
             | MerelyMortal wrote:
             | I can't believe the run ogranizers allowed him to use DHMO
             | (dihydrogen monoxide), it's a very deadly substance if one
             | isn't careful.
             | 
             | There's even a website dedicated to how devistating it is:
             | 
             | https://www.dhmo.org
        
               | lake_vincent wrote:
               | The performance advantage is ridiculous too. You see a
               | guy on DHMO next to a regular guy without it, and the
               | results are very predictable. Totally unfair.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Victerius wrote:
         | Even if it is, it's still his leg muscles, his cardiovascular
         | endurance, his ability to remain awake for 24 hours doing an
         | intense exercise without collapsing of fatigue. Substances
         | don't confer superpowers.
        
           | bergenty wrote:
           | Yes they do, amphetamines would accomplish everything you
           | wrote above. With enough hydration and amphetamines I'm
           | certain even I could accomplish this and my general time for
           | a mile over 20 miles is currently 8.5 minutes.
        
             | anthonypasq wrote:
             | go do it then
        
               | bergenty wrote:
               | Yeah not trying to get addicted to highly addictive
               | substances.
        
       | ck2 wrote:
       | I'm sure he's clean for classical PED, I mean they must test for
       | that.
       | 
       | But how about things like ADHD drugs?
       | 
       | When I see someone do a "low boil" endurance event that is beyond
       | all others for all of history like a 24 hour record or triple-
       | Ironman, etc. I have to ask why is their brain so different than
       | competitors?
       | 
       | I guess the benchmark is how many other people are even close to
       | his accomplishments?
        
       | thro388 wrote:
       | Good for him he got Lithuanian citizenship. Many "Russians" born
       | in Lithuania never got that privilege!
       | 
       | Edit: not true, see comments bellow
        
         | baybal2 wrote:
         | I know what you are implying here...
         | 
         | All Russians born in Lithuania been offered Lithuanian
         | citizenship, repeatedly, many times over.
         | 
         | Some Russians on the far right of the political spectrum
         | repeatedly imply the contrary. This is not even a conspiracy
         | theory, but a "being debunked in 5 minutes Googling theory."
        
         | wazoox wrote:
         | Being a multiple records holder undoubtedly helps a lot.
        
           | rossvor wrote:
           | I think the GP is a bit confused and mixed Lithuania up with
           | its neighbors. Lithuania, unlike its neighbors Estonia and
           | Latvia, gave citizenship automatically to everyone residing
           | in Lithuania right before the independence. While Estonia and
           | Latvia chose to create a naturalization process aimed at
           | excluding ethnic Russians.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statelessness#Estonia_and_Latv.
           | ..
        
             | thro388 wrote:
             | Fair enough, I mixed up with Latvia, sorry
        
       | throwthere wrote:
       | Amazing feat. Also makes you wonder what he was thinking for 24
       | hours through the solitude-- the mental toughness and... the
       | boringness.
        
         | WastingMyTime89 wrote:
         | I don't how it is for you but the longest I have ever run is
         | three hours and I don't remember feeling bored nor thinking
         | about anything apart from the running. If your effort is
         | intense you don't really have space to think.
        
         | dmurray wrote:
         | Plenty of people have run for 24 hours, or spent far longer in
         | far more solitary conditions. You could ask any of them.
         | Sorokin "just" ran 5% faster.
        
       | speedgoose wrote:
       | In terms of logistics, can you drink just enough water to be
       | healthy and fast without having to pee yourself to evacuate the
       | excess?
        
         | zeroonetwothree wrote:
         | You need to pee to eliminate some waste products
        
       | nopinsight wrote:
       | For many people, the risk to long-term health (and in some cases
       | even sudden cardiac death) due to extreme running might not be
       | worth it.
       | 
       | Ultramarathon running: how safe is the sport?
       | 
       | https://theconversation.com/ultramarathon-running-how-safe-i...
       | 
       | Potential Long-Term Health Problems Associated with Ultra-
       | Endurance Running: A Narrative Review
       | 
       | https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-021-01561-3
        
         | strikelaserclaw wrote:
         | Seems like this sport got him out of the drinking, eating,
         | depressed type of lifestyle.
        
         | sendomatic wrote:
         | Interesting link. But the way you introduce it overstates the
         | statements made by the research.
        
           | nopinsight wrote:
           | I have just a couple of friends who run _full_ marathons on a
           | regular basis. One of them just died this year, probably due
           | to heart condition, one day after a marathon. He has no other
           | ailments we knew of.
           | 
           | It's anecdotal, yes, but coupled with some research and other
           | medical advice I've read, running marathons or longer
           | distance too often and aiming for a competitive time likely
           | has long-term negative effects on your health.
           | 
           | (Note: The etymology of 'marathon' also gives a small hint of
           | this, though obviously Pheidippides ran in a very different
           | condition from modern marathons.
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheidippides )
        
           | _the_inflator wrote:
           | I agree. Most people could not get into the area of "death
           | risk".
           | 
           | I am more interested in injuries.
        
       | runnr_az wrote:
       | I know the US 24h record holder, Nick Coury from around the PHX
       | trailrunning scene. He ran 173 miles in 24h on a track last year.
       | Talking to him, it's all about meticulous training -- he's an
       | engineer by background, so he basically measured and tweaked
       | every variable, one at a time, until he found things that worked.
       | Still, these runs are won and lost on efficiency -- to stay that
       | focused for so long seems... uhhh... difficult.
       | 
       | https://www.irunfar.com/nick-coury-24-hour-american-record
        
       | typon wrote:
       | How much weight did he lose? It's quite amazing how calorie dense
       | our energy storage mechanisms are.
        
         | darkwizard42 wrote:
         | So a probably safe comparison is Ironmans or Ultramarathons
         | (100 milers go for 17-18 hours for the top finishers). Usually
         | you have to put in a huge amount of carbs per hour (50-80g/hr)
         | and a high amount of calories (250-400 cal/hr). Hydration is
         | obviously also very important and getting sodium will be key
         | (1000mg/hr). Outside of that you can generally limit your
         | body's usage of fat stores though at this length and time it is
         | probably inevitable.
         | 
         | I would suspect that if properly hydrated and consuming
         | calories (no easy feat after 12 hours because the stomach does
         | really go to shit) maybe 600 net calories an hour (-1000/hr +
         | 400/hr from nutrition) = 4-10 lbs (@3000 cal/lb).
         | 
         | Range provided because I suspect my calculations are a little
         | off and I'm underestimating the calories burned and probably
         | overestimating the ability to consume that many calories/hour.
         | 
         | TLDR: Probably 10 lbs if they are properly hydrated and fed
         | (which this appears to be a VERY well supported achievement)
        
           | typon wrote:
           | I wonder if losing weight over the course of the run itself
           | means that it got easier for him to move near the end (of
           | course offset by the tiredness/fatigue) - I wonder if the
           | effect did slightly cancel out?
        
             | darkwizard42 wrote:
             | I wouldn't think it would be helpful to lose weight, the
             | issue really is that turning fat stores into calories is
             | quite slow (for how many calories he is consuming) and it
             | can't be relied on as a source of energy so you just end up
             | more tired I think.
             | 
             | You need some amount of weight for muscle to push your body
             | forward and I don't know that there is a big aerodynamic or
             | energy advantage to sacrificing weight for that.
        
           | Accacin wrote:
           | It's very hard to comsume 600 calories an hour whilst long
           | distance running. A good thing to aim for is 200 calories as
           | that's probably about the max your body can digest whilst
           | running.
           | 
           | However, this guy is clearly superhuman so who knows :D
        
             | darkwizard42 wrote:
             | I had the estimate at 400 calories in my post (which is on
             | the high end for sure), which is what I know some Ultraman
             | and ultramarathoners aim for in at least the first half or
             | bike legs of their race. I believe 200 is enough for
             | amateur runners, but I know professionals really load up
             | since the calories from carbs are definitely more
             | efficiently utilized than fat stores.
        
         | jordanmoconnor wrote:
         | Someone on Twitter calculated about 55,000 calories burned. Not
         | sure if he had things to consume while running - but 8 - 10 lbs
         | of fat burned in one day is wild to think about.
        
           | mikestew wrote:
           | _Not sure if he had things to consume while running_
           | 
           | Oh, he had things to consume. I ran 16 miles on hilly terrain
           | on Saturday, and just for that I brought about 500 calories
           | with me (not all consumed, some was "just in case").
           | 
           | It has been said that your liver stores about 2000 calories
           | of glycogen. Divide by ~100 calories/mile, and now you know
           | why marathoners hit "the wall" at about 20 miles if they
           | don't chomp on some calories along the way.
        
           | WastingMyTime89 wrote:
           | Definitely had things to consume. I don't think you could go
           | through this kind of effort on your energy storage only. I
           | don't think it can be mobilised that fast. Hydratation
           | probably is a major concern too.
        
           | xhrpost wrote:
           | IIRC, a gallon of gasoline is about 37,000 calories. So
           | that's a lot of energy he utilized, all through his body
           | burning fat and carbs!
        
           | cfj wrote:
           | That seems way too high. A rough ballpark of energy
           | expenditure while running is 1000 kcal per hour. Strava has
           | the activity at 16,751 kcal.
        
             | darkwizard42 wrote:
             | Dang, that would be SO impressive... <1000 calories an hour
             | would mean he is running SUPER efficiently from a body
             | perspective, but of course, with the right hydration,
             | nutrition, and temperature it is all possible to burn less
             | calories.
        
               | Majestic121 wrote:
               | I don't know about that, it's probably not super precise
               | but an hour running is 600-700 kcal burned, reported by
               | Garmin Connect
        
               | mikestew wrote:
               | Whether you walk it or run it, a mile is about 100
               | calories. So, give or take, ~20,000 calories. Divide by
               | 3500 calories/lb. and he burned five pounds of fat he
               | probably didn't have to spare. But not so fast, he was
               | also consuming calories along the way, and consuming a
               | _lot_.
               | 
               | So calculating the net burn would be quite difficult. But
               | the gross burn was probably about five pounds/2.25Kg.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | yubiox wrote:
       | I want to run but I cough for hours after running. Doc gave me an
       | inhaler but it doesn't do anything. Any ideas? Help!
        
         | abakker wrote:
         | Ever tried running while on vacation? I grew up in new england
         | and always found that I had a lot of exercise intolerance.
         | However, I could always do better when I was on vacation out
         | west. Now that I live in CO, I find my exercise tolerance to be
         | way better. Anecdotally, I find that humidity is a real
         | performance suck for me, as well as seasonal mold.
        
         | smallerfish wrote:
         | Allergies? Definitely consult your doctor, but try taking
         | claritin (or generic) for 2 weeks and see if that clears things
         | up.
        
         | Accacin wrote:
         | This is not medical advice, and could even be wrong.
         | 
         | However, I had a friend with with the same problem and he did
         | have asthma. The thing that helped him the most was dialling it
         | back completely. Run 1km, does that make you cough? Run 0.5km.
         | Once you get a distance where you don't cough, run it for a
         | week or so, then increment by another 0.5km. If you start
         | coughing, reduce it again.
        
         | febrianrendak wrote:
         | If you cough then you needs different method of breathing. I
         | coughs when I breathing through mouth because inhale/exhale
         | make my mouth and throath dry. Try use nose for both.
        
         | michael1999 wrote:
         | Exercise asthma is a drag.
         | 
         | You might be opening up your lungs more than usual during
         | running, and dirty or dry air can be irritating to pockets that
         | aren't used to use. Start with short runs to build up your
         | tolerance. Running on wet days can help -- the air is cleaner,
         | wet, and less irritating. Good nose breathing will humidify and
         | filter the air through your sinuses instead of passing straight
         | to the lungs. Huffing steam through your nose in the shower
         | before or after can calm the irritated tissue. If that doesn't
         | work, reactine or a puffer can help. A light puff deep in the
         | lungs _before_ the run can help stave it off.
        
         | toss1 wrote:
         | After getting a flu some years ago, I had a similar problem
         | ever since it cleared up. I have no idea if it is like yours,
         | so it might be a longshot; mine is classified as "mild
         | exercise-induced asthma". It is worst in cold weather.
         | 
         | I've also found that the inhaler helps only marginally, but it
         | does help to start out each run on a much slower than normal
         | pace, even walking (sort of giving the airways time to adjust),
         | and also starting out wearing a scarf or big collar over the
         | airways to trap moisture in the airstream. It's kind of
         | annoying to do as my usual routine was a good warmup then just
         | start right-off at full pace, but since then, I kind of pay for
         | that.
         | 
         | Good luck, I hope this helps or or you can find something that
         | does!
        
         | jeltz wrote:
         | Does it help if you run slower? Does it happen more during
         | spring (i.e. could it be allergies)?
        
         | wara23arish wrote:
         | im not a doctor but i had the same thing happen to me, but time
         | after time i stopped coughing.
         | 
         | also make sure you're breathing is correct
        
         | chainwax wrote:
         | Anecdotal:
         | 
         | I struggled with exercise asthma for as long as I can remember
         | up until about a year ago (currently 28). I had in my head that
         | I'd never be athletic for this reason. Last year I started
         | heavily lifting weights with a trainer in order to correct some
         | of the slouch I'd developed from programming and mentioned to
         | my trainer that I would never be a runner because of the
         | breathing issues.
         | 
         | I'm not sure if his response to that came from a place of
         | wisdom or not, but he effectively told me to "quit making
         | excuses and get after it" and started integrating runs into my
         | workout. My lunch issues were always exacerbated in cold
         | weather, and this was in November where the mornings were
         | around 38f. It started with ~1km runs and I honestly thought
         | this guy was killing me. I was bringing an inhaler in my truck
         | and would use it between the "warm up" runs and doing weights
         | because my lungs tight and on fire.
         | 
         | I was doing this routine 3 days a week that entire winter, and
         | the length of the warmup run would range from 1-3km. I started
         | noticing the pain less and less as the weeks went by. I
         | actually started enjoying it, and began running on the days I
         | wasn't going to the gym. I worked from 1 mile runs to
         | consistently doing 4-5 5ks a week, with the occasional longer
         | run. I still try to do 3-4 5ks a week to this day.
         | 
         | I hadn't really thought about it until this comment, which is
         | probably what prompted this long-winded response. For me
         | though, the solution was to just keep doing it. Your lungs get
         | stronger.
        
         | dtf wrote:
         | I've had that sometimes during the cold seasons, and usually
         | take a puff of salbutamol before setting out. I still get it
         | sometimes after a hard run or a race.
         | 
         | Maybe try reducing the dose of running (duration x intensity),
         | until you don't suffer so much, and then slowly build up if you
         | can over weeks. You can walk & run, couch-to-5K style, if it
         | helps.
         | 
         | This little-by-little approach applies to most things in
         | running - from training your VO2max to coming back from an
         | injury, so it may help you. The key is to understand that the
         | timeframe of adaptations can be weeks to months, and not to
         | rush things.
        
       | sizzzzlerz wrote:
       | How does one train for a 24 hour run? Do you need to run the full
       | 24 or is it enough to run single or double marathon distances
       | leading up to the race?
        
         | scojomodena wrote:
         | Marathon-esque training is pretty good. The difference is
         | really in being able to slow down so you are well within your
         | aerobic zone, below your threshold pace/effort. Running slow
         | enough so you can breathe only through your nose is a good
         | measure. From there, it's about eating and hydration, etc.
         | Ultras are often described as a "an eating competition with
         | some running thrown in". The joints of course is a big deal
         | too, some can do it easier than others.
         | 
         | Also, most people walk a lot, you don't have to run, you just
         | keep making forward progress.
         | 
         | source: I've done a few Ultras and have used a running coach.
        
         | eitally wrote:
         | Alexandr had been running 185mi/wk average to train for this
         | over the past 3 months. Lots of marathon and 2x marathon runs
         | on back-to-back days. That said, there's an enormous chasm
         | between someone like this training for a 24hr world record and
         | your or I just training to finish a 24hr race on our feet.
        
       | f311a wrote:
       | Aleksandr is very gifted genetically, he ran a marathon after one
       | week of training while being overweight (100kg). It only took him
       | 50 days to train for 100 km after the marathon. He is also 40
       | years old.
       | 
       | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aSLyzAH9Y0A
        
       | nl wrote:
       | It's worth noting that the previous record had stood since 1997.
       | That's an incredible amount of time for a running record,
       | especially with the huge increase in ultra running over the last
       | 10 years.
        
         | oakesm9 wrote:
         | I beleive that he broke the 1997 record last year and this was
         | breaking his own record.
        
       | ryannevius wrote:
       | Aleksandr's training is public on his Strava:
       | https://www.strava.com/athletes/26934035
       | 
       | Something to remember is that this is his pace _after_ pit stops,
       | so his actual running pace was faster. Also notable is that this
       | course was kind of terrible, with four 90 degree turns and three
       | 180 degree turns each lap for 209 laps. There's little doubt that
       | he could run > 200 miles on a course with fewer turns.
        
         | georgecmu wrote:
         | He's got the fly-bys enabled, too -- and you can watch the
         | replay of the race with 20 other athletes:
         | 
         | https://labs.strava.com/flyby/viewer/#7828119666?c=u0pf6j88&...
        
         | speedgoose wrote:
         | I didn't know you could get a watch with more than 24 hours of
         | battery life including GPS tracking (COROS APEX Pro). The
         | accuracy is a bit weird though, the elevation chart doesn't
         | make sense.
        
           | ezfe wrote:
           | The Apple Watch Ultra is rated for 36 hours so long as cell
           | service isn't enabled.
        
             | trimbo wrote:
             | That's 36 hours of normal use, with a 60 minute workout[1].
             | My Fenix 6 lasts 8 days of normal use and currently tells
             | me it can record a 14 hour run even with only 42% battery.
             | 
             | [1] - Details in footnote #1 on
             | https://www.apple.com/apple-watch-ultra/
        
               | zikduruqe wrote:
               | My Apple Watch with Cellular enabled is the only
               | electronic doo-dad that I carry on my bike rides, even up
               | to 100 miles. At the end of the night when it goes on the
               | charger, I might have 20% left. That's good enough for me
               | considering I seldom, if ever, leave the house with a
               | phone.
               | 
               | And if one could ever get a cellular enabled watch
               | without an iPhone, I'll be first in line.
        
           | groby_b wrote:
           | High-end Garmin watches as well. The fenix 7 can do 48+h
           | including tracking, the Enduro2 will likely go 3 days.
           | 
           | And yes, elevation is bonkers, because GPS elevation via
           | watch is about as precise as you guessing. (+/- 400 feet on
           | Garmins, but I'm not sure there are any watches significantly
           | better than that. )
        
             | jeltz wrote:
             | Mid range Garmin watches too. The Forerunner 255 can do 30
             | hours. It is only their entry level stuff which cannot.
        
           | bakuninsbart wrote:
           | All of the higher-end Garmin watches can do this, it is one
           | of their main selling points. In normal use, I charge mine
           | around once a week.
        
           | jeltz wrote:
           | I ran for 8:30 with my ancient Forerunner 235 and it still
           | had some batteries left. Modern watches can easily do 24
           | hours, even the mid range Forerunner 255 can do 30 hours and
           | the larger 955 can do 42 hours.
        
           | dfc wrote:
           | I don't think it's that big of a deal for good running
           | watches. I ran the JFK50 with a three year old Garmin 935
           | with a heart strap (HRM-Tri) in a little under 11 hours. My
           | watch was close to 50%. That was with GPS updates every
           | second. It would have been much better if I left it at the
           | default, not the ultratrac or whatever they call the
           | endurance battery mode.
        
             | js2 wrote:
             | It's really only been the last few years that running
             | watches could last >24 hours with GPS tracking enabled.
             | 
             | I also have a Forerunner 935 which I've used for 24 hours,
             | but I think I had it in ultra-mode where it takes GPS
             | samples less often.
             | 
             | Before that I had a Forerunner 230 and I had to charge that
             | mid race during a 100-miler, which was fun to do while
             | running (used an external battery, put the watch and
             | battery in a running vest while running one of my laps).
             | 
             | The latest watches which do 36 hours or more with full GPS
             | accuracy are really amazing.
        
           | djsavvy wrote:
           | A sibling comment to yours asked about the elevation ---
           | apparently it's actually a measure of air pressure.
        
             | speedgoose wrote:
             | That's strange that they use such an inaccurate sensor when
             | they have a GPS.
        
           | Guillaume86 wrote:
           | I knew the Garmin Enduro could do it, it can apparently do
           | 80h of GPS tracking with solar charging:
           | https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2021/02/garmin-enduro-gps-
           | watch-...
        
         | c-fe wrote:
         | Strava also shares the latitude/elevation during the run.
         | (Screenshot in case you dont have Strava
         | https://imgur.com/PuuKo5r) What I find interesting and don't
         | really understand is why the elevation keeps going down during
         | the run, even though he stayed on the same track. Anyone have
         | an idea why that could be?
        
           | gorkish wrote:
           | The elevation in this case is just a proxy for storing the
           | barometric pressure, which is because the actual air pressure
           | is the important thing to track if you are trying to
           | normalize against athletic performance. If the watch logged
           | the GPS altitude, it would be a lot more accurate, but less
           | useful as the air density would only be estimated..
        
             | Lukas_Skywalker wrote:
             | All GPS watches already calculate their altitude (GPS uses
             | three dimensional trilateration for computing the position,
             | so you must get the elevation because you must calculate
             | the three dimensional position). The elevation measure is
             | usually pretty inaccurate in Central Europe. Since the
             | satellites are comparably low above the horizon, flat
             | movements of the runner have a large effect on the run time
             | of the signals coming from the satellites, while vertical
             | movements do not really change the run time and are
             | therefore much more affected by any error.
             | 
             | This is why most portals like Strava run a data correction
             | by overriding the elevation data of the GPS track by
             | tracing the path over their internal elevation model.
             | 
             | The barometric elevation calculation is usually much more
             | accurate and is constantly calibrated on the watch. This
             | breaks down a little if you run for over 24 hours and the
             | weather changes a lot. The drift over the 24 hours of this
             | run amounts to about 8m over 2 hours, which doesn't really
             | matter. And while air pressure can be used to normalize
             | performance of the athletes, the absolute values measured
             | by the barometer are usually pretty inaccurate, while the
             | relative changes are quite accurate. Therefore, they can be
             | used to measure climb/descent, but not really for an
             | absolute air density measurement.
             | 
             | Source: I have worked on a GPS wearable (without barometric
             | pressure sensor).
        
           | hammock wrote:
           | It's probably based off of a barometer in a watch, not GPS,
           | and the air pressure was changing
        
             | folli wrote:
             | Yes, a high-pressure area was moving over Italy the last
             | couple of days.
        
         | milansuk wrote:
         | I downloaded .gpx of the run and it's 6.7MB. He started with
         | 4min/km pace, held it for 130km(9 hours) and then He "slowed
         | down" almost linearly to 5min/km when he finished.
        
           | mytailorisrich wrote:
           | I've taken to running during my lunch break in March this
           | year and I can now run a 5k most days of the week at a 5:30
           | per km pace.
           | 
           | So I can't even imagine how he does that.
        
           | sirsinsalot wrote:
           | Wow, my best ever 10k pace was 6min/km. 9 hours ag 4min/k is
           | insane.
        
           | MuffinFlavored wrote:
           | 4min/km = 6:27/mile roughly, I think? If I did the math
           | correctly?
        
           | folli wrote:
           | Where did you get the GPX file from?
        
             | milansuk wrote:
             | You have to login. Then on map there is "GPX" button.
        
               | folli wrote:
               | Thanks!
        
       | vytis wrote:
       | Another incredible ultra-runner from Lithuania is Aidas
       | Ardzijauskas who last year completed his 444 day run covering
       | 30303 km, which is on average 68km every day for almost 1.5
       | years! His plan originally was to run around the world, but
       | during the pandemic it wasn't possible to do that so he just ran
       | it all in Lithuania. Unfortunately there isn't much English-
       | language coverage about the monumental feat, but this is readable
       | with Google translate:
       | https://www.lrt.lt/naujienos/sportas/10/1568074/finisas-pasi...
       | 
       | And he tracked everything on Strava too -
       | https://www.strava.com/athletes/16416410
        
         | spiderfarmer wrote:
         | That's an amazing feat. Goes to show we once were predators who
         | weren't fast but had the stamina to outrun most of our prey.
        
       | egberts1 wrote:
       | Come on, Roman Empire's Parateus Messenger Express do this every
       | day.
       | 
       | /sarcasm
        
       | thrownaway561 wrote:
       | I just ran a 5km today with a 6:02 pace. I was just about to
       | collapse and I've been running for about 2 years now. I can't
       | even imagine doing a full 24 hours just walking let alone 4:30
       | per km.
        
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       (page generated 2022-09-19 23:02 UTC)