[HN Gopher] America's most remarkable kid died in Newcastle, Utah
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       America's most remarkable kid died in Newcastle, Utah
        
       Author : xenophon
       Score  : 120 points
       Date   : 2022-09-18 19:56 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.deseret.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.deseret.com)
        
       | jessaustin wrote:
       | Parents, teach your kids to swim. If you know children whose
       | parents can't do this, insist on doing it for them.
        
         | blacksqr wrote:
         | Not only couldn't swim, wasn't wearing a life jacket.
        
         | etempleton wrote:
         | Swimming is perhaps one of the most important skills anyone can
         | learn regardless of where you live. At some point in your life
         | you will probably fall into water too deep to stand. Don't let
         | yourself be at the mercy of someone saving you or sheer dumb
         | luck.
         | 
         | Also, if you can't swim, don't be embarrassed! A lot of people
         | can't and honestly no one is judging you because you can't
         | swim. Go to your local pool and see if they offer adult classes
         | and if not see if there is someone willing to teach you.
        
       | contingencies wrote:
       | Cool kid. Imagine what he could have done with supportive
       | teachers if not burdened by poverty.
        
         | chiefalchemist wrote:
         | I imagine he'd be cookie like all the other cookies; as in cut
         | by a cookie cutter that limits the majority of all the other
         | minds cranked out of the formal K - 12 mill.
        
         | bequanna wrote:
         | Did you read the article? His parents were immensely
         | supportive.
         | 
         | I can't imagine any other situation where a parent would
         | essentially dedicate their life to support their child's
         | development.
        
           | contingencies wrote:
           | I read the article. In my reading it implied the whole family
           | were disabled, the parents housebound, and that for half of
           | his life the kid was effectively permanently engaged in self-
           | directed business-linked study outside of the house.
        
       | unsupp0rted wrote:
       | > Outside, the sky over Escalante Valley, Utah, is blinding blue
       | and cloudless,
       | 
       | I don't enjoy articles that preamble about the lack of clouds in
       | the sky.
       | 
       | Here's the meat:
       | 
       | > Kevin drowned in a kayaking accident at a friend's birthday
       | party. At 14, he had just published his autobiography. He was
       | making plans to expand his 350-acre farm to buy up surrounding
       | farms to convert to regenerative agriculture. He was saving money
       | to build a house for his parents and another for his autistic
       | older brother. He was polishing a movie script and a series of
       | children's books teaching business literacy for kids. He was
       | looking for a celebrity to endorse his line of luxury toiletries
       | made from the milk of his goat herd. He was breeding heritage
       | turkeys. He was writing guest essays for notable bloggers higher
       | up the political food chain. And, in his spare time, he had the
       | task of grading the road to his farm using the John Deere tractor
       | he bought new for himself for his 11th birthday.
       | 
       | and
       | 
       | > A friend once remarked, "You guys aren't even raising him;
       | you're just kind of the audience watching him raise himself."
        
       | lkrubner wrote:
       | This story is especially clear and dramatic (and well documented)
       | but I've often thought this happens in every generation: the
       | people who lead (businesses and nations) when they are in their
       | 40s and 50s are often people who boldly go out and discover the
       | world while they are in their teens and 20s, and so they take on
       | a bit more risk than the average citizen, and this includes
       | physical risk (whether in travel or informal athletics), and so,
       | "at the margins" as an economist would say, a certain percentage
       | of them are dead before they reach the age of 30. So, for every
       | generation, a few of the most brilliant lights are missing by the
       | time the generation reaches its 40s and 50s. The people who do
       | become leaders are, to an extent, the ones who simply got lucky
       | -- many of them have some stories to tell about times they took a
       | risk and were surprised to live. For obvious reasons, we don't
       | hear the stories from the folks who took a risk and did not
       | survive.
       | 
       | (One of my favorite anecdotes on this subject: One of the best
       | entrepreneurs I know went down to Mexico and hitchhiked all over
       | when she was 18 years old. And every family that picked her up
       | told her that what she was doing was very dangerous and that she
       | was very lucky to be picked up by that family, instead of someone
       | more dangerous. But at the time she was very innocent. 20 years
       | later I ran into her and I was like "You know what you did was
       | crazy?" and she was like "Now that I think about it, I'm amazed
       | that I survived.")
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | 20 years ago Mexico was much different than it is now; 30 years
         | even more so.
        
         | soared wrote:
         | This isn't really true except for random edge cases. The people
         | leading countries go to school and get law degrees. People
         | leading business got college degrees or worked in business for
         | decades.
         | 
         | You can pull edge cases like Patagonia's Yvon Chouinard, but
         | even then he spend a lot of time in his 20s running his
         | business.
        
       | soared wrote:
       | I mean, do we believe any of this? An 8 year old isn't running a
       | business and selling to restaurants in a different state. No
       | business would purchase from an 8 year, no business would ship
       | goods from an 8 year old, no bank gives a loan to a 9 year old.
       | The list goes on and on. Incredibly sad that a child has died,
       | but this reads as pure fantasy.
        
       | klyrs wrote:
       | This is some real inspiration porn. The kid sounds amazing, and
       | it's tragic that he died so young. I have family that practices
       | unschooling, and in their case, that means fundamentalist
       | indoctrination, no math, no history, near illiteracy, no saleable
       | skills or motivation to get a job or do anything independently.
       | And I just know that they're going to send this to my mom as
       | evidence that they're doing the right thing.
        
         | xani_ wrote:
         | Poor kid, the family are basically gimping his start in life by
         | a decade... it's outright abuse
        
           | klyrs wrote:
           | What a peculiar word to use. And, I actually disagree in this
           | specific case. This kid is a statistical outlier to a degree
           | I'm unwilling to even guess at. It's the kids around and
           | below average who are hurt the most by a lack of structured
           | education.
        
             | Firmwarrior wrote:
             | I think requiring standardized tests of homeschooled kids
             | is a pretty good compromise... The standardized tests are
             | ridiculously easy to ace if you're smart, and they'd catch
             | kids who aren't learning reading or basic arithmetic
        
           | wyager wrote:
           | The preponderance of evidence suggests that schooling has
           | essentially zero impact on adult outcomes until around
           | middle/high school.
           | 
           | Most public schools are clearly more abusive than simply not
           | subjecting your children to the standard industrial schooling
           | regimen.
        
             | orwin wrote:
             | The US school system seems different than mine, and
             | although we have issues, if only for the socialization,
             | being in school is better than not.
             | 
             | Especially, what my father explained to me (he directed
             | projects and extracurricular 'homework help' (+ free food)
             | for kids in the poor neighborhood of my city at the time)
             | was that the most important for success in school was
             | parental implication, and that if you compared kids in
             | 'regular' school with present and interested parents (often
             | children of teachers, or children with one stay at home
             | parent and few siblings) to kids in 'special school'
             | (Montessori at the time i think), there was no practical
             | difference on their success later. He told us his job was
             | to try his best to have his street educators bridge the gap
             | between parents and school, and if it wasn't possible, to
             | offer a more collective and affirmative way of
             | learning/doing in his extracurricular center.
             | 
             | (weird translation, sorry if it isn't understandable, there
             | is a lot of specific vocabulary i tried to simplify then
             | translate).
             | 
             | It was only his impression, but I've worked with children
             | from my 14th birthday to my 25th, and my personal
             | experience (i taught science through experiment with an
             | association both at public schools and at summer camps)
             | tends to confirm that what's really matter in engagement
             | from the parents.
        
         | fock wrote:
         | > that means fundamentalist indoctrination, no math, no
         | history, near illiteracy,
         | 
         | it looks like it was the same here. He essentially practiced
         | the life of a middle age peasant. I guess many had their farm
         | going by the age of 12 ... and probably didn't have some weird
         | capitalistic, and nationalist inspiration porn ideologist in
         | the background (because writing a pseudonymous book and then
         | dying to young sounds like that... also the wondrous
         | mentors...)
         | 
         | see for example: https://greatbasingreen.com/about-us-2/ (who
         | is we? - would anyone write like that about themselves with
         | those achievements ) https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Tell-Cant-
         | Ambitious-Homeschooler...
        
       | teekert wrote:
       | "Don't ever take 'can't' as the answer unless you've verified
       | that it is against the law or against the powers of physics,"
       | Kevin wrote in his memoir.
       | 
       | What a human. Such a great balance of a healthy brain and the
       | confidence to trust it.
        
       | moffkalast wrote:
       | Kid sounded like an ultra capitalistic incarnation of Von
       | Neumann. I suppose growing up dirt poor does that to a person.
        
         | fzeroracer wrote:
         | The people celebrating this story seem weird to me because this
         | looks more like a nightmare. It's having your entire childhood
         | traded away in order to function in a system that's responsible
         | for making your entire family poor.
         | 
         | I know some people look at it as the whole 'self-made
         | capitalist can do anything' sort of ideal but to me I see the
         | failures of multiple systems.
        
           | lo_zamoyski wrote:
           | I often find nebulous discussions around "systems" tiresome,
           | not because there aren't better or worse systems, not because
           | we can't make improvements, but because very often it results
           | in a waste of time and energy spent on grievance and
           | kvetching and wanting the stars to align perfectly instead of
           | making the best of your situation.
        
             | dc-programmer wrote:
             | Countries rise and fall by systems. If the US adopts an
             | unschooling strategy that minimizes math learning, then it
             | will certainly take the country in a direction. It's a
             | topic that powerful people are clearly taking sides on. I
             | think it's valid to discuss what the implications would be.
             | 
             | In general, I don't really understand the dismissal of the
             | use of systems language for social topics. Other domains on
             | this site are debated in very analytical terms looking at
             | historical factors and second order effects.
             | 
             | What makes social issues different where it's uncouth to
             | perform the same type of analyses?
        
             | gammarator wrote:
             | Counterpoint: https://vimeo.com/44807536
             | 
             | https://www.metafilter.com/117357/Lawsuit-waiting-to-
             | happen#...
        
           | comology wrote:
        
           | joshenders wrote:
           | You're not wrong but both things can be true at once.
        
         | comology wrote:
        
         | epolanski wrote:
         | He has nothing to do with Von Neumann, a sophisticated
         | intelllectual and the last polymath who was all about vanity
         | and avoiding physical work.
        
           | moffkalast wrote:
           | And was born to a very rich noble family as almost a polar
           | opposite, which likely led him to pursue more abstract things
           | and forget about the material.
           | 
           | I would imagine this kid was on a similar level of genius,
           | but seemingly more interested in making as much money as
           | humanly possible instead.
        
       | synergy20 wrote:
       | A truly sad story.
        
         | bagels wrote:
         | Article did mention?
         | 
         | "But on a hot day last June, at nearby Newcastle Reservoir,
         | Kevin drowned in a kayaking accident at a friend's birthday
         | party."
         | 
         | Article is worth reading. I think the title is pretty accurate,
         | assuming the details are true.
        
           | chiefalchemist wrote:
           | It's believable but then again had a distinct too good to be
           | true fairytale feel. I hate to sound jaded but I keep waiting
           | for a shoe to drop about it's accuracy or even validity.
        
       | fock wrote:
       | So, as a European I read: mormon paper (Deseret...) hails parents
       | who made their child work their farm. Because reading things
       | like:
       | 
       | > His spelling and grammar lagged behind grade level. He
       | consistently misspelled the word "business," and stumbled over
       | the pronunciation of simple words.
       | 
       | doesn't really spell hidden genius of the 21st century but
       | probably describes millions of peasants in Europe during the
       | middle-ages. Family died of the plague, so son got a businessman
       | at age 9. It happened a lot, but they were just some other serf
       | and didn't have ideologists (recall the NYT-author who resigned
       | because "woke") who celebrate going fullspeed back to the middle
       | ages.
        
         | julianeon wrote:
         | They don't call him a genius though, they call him America's
         | most remarkable kid, with emphasis on his business acumen. It
         | seems unfair to say something like "he's not going to
         | revolutionize science" when they never implied he would.
        
         | bequanna wrote:
         | So in your view, it sounds like being able to perfectly diagram
         | a sentence is more important than understanding tax law?
        
           | fock wrote:
           | Well, to understand tax law, you need to understand language
           | quite well (see another post these days on the frontpage...)
           | - which usually comes with some skills in applying it. It
           | smells a bit fishy, if you claim a person can do the first,
           | but not the latter.
        
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