[HN Gopher] GTA VI Leak [video]
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GTA VI Leak [video]
Author : haunter
Score : 426 points
Date : 2022-09-18 09:04 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
| unpopularopp wrote:
| Cool to see the dev tools!
|
| But that made me wonder... will ever have "visual
| coding/scripting" outside of video game development? Sometimes I
| wonder that we are still in the "silent cinema age" of computer
| programming. Sure we have new and modern tools but in the end of
| the day it's still writing plain text.
| meibo wrote:
| Even in game development, it often turns out to be a huge mess
| that coders have to go and sort out after the fact, it's almost
| inevitable if it's general purpose enough.
|
| If you do decide to build a scripting system for designers, I
| would recommend being very conservative with features and
| thinking twice before adding any new feature.
| DonHopkins wrote:
| Just hire competent and trustworthy designers, instead of
| purposefully crippling the tools you spend so much time
| developing. The best designers can also code, and if you
| design a system that discourages instead of encourages
| designers from coding, you're wasting the potential of those
| precious coder/designers, and wasting the opportunity to
| train your best designers to code too.
|
| It's not as if Rock Star can't find anybody qualified who
| wants to work for them, or any designers who are willing to
| learn to code in a powerful visual scripting language.
|
| This attitude causes disasters like PHP's "Smarty" templating
| language.
|
| PHP was already a templating language, but somebody got it in
| their head that there should be an iron-clad separation
| between designers and programmers, and that PHP gave
| designers too much power and confused them, and that their
| incompetent untrustworthy designers who refused to learn
| anything about programming deserved something even "simpler"
| than PHP, so they came up with Smarty.
|
| Then over time the realized that their designers were
| powerless, so their programmers would have to learn TWO
| languages so they could wade into the Smarty templates to
| make them actually work with all the extra code they had to
| write because Smarty was so crippled, so they nickle-and-
| dimed more and more incoherent programming language elements
| into Smarty, making it EVEN HARDER to use and more
| complicated and less consistent than PHP, yet nowhere near as
| powerful.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20736574
|
| DonHopkins on Aug 19, 2019 | parent | context | favorite |
| on: YAML: Probably not so great after all
|
| One of the most ridiculous examples of this was the Smarty
| templating language for PHP.
|
| Somebody got the silly idea in their head of implementing a
| templating language in PHP, even though PHP is ALREADY a
| templating language. So they took out all the useful features
| of PHP, then stuck a few of them back in with even goofier
| inconsistent hard-to-learn syntax, in a way that required a
| code generation step, and made templates absolutely
| impossible to debug.
|
| So in the end your template programmers need to know
| something just as difficult as PHP itself, yet even more
| esoteric and less well documented, and it doesn't even end up
| saving PHP programmers any time, either.
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20100226023855/http://lutt.se/bl.
| ..
|
| >Bad things you accomplish when using Smarty:
|
| >Adding a second language to program in, and increasing the
| complexity. And the language is not well spread at all,
| allthough it is'nt hard to learn.
|
| >Not really making the code more readable for the designer.
|
| >You include a lot of code which, in my eyes, is just
| overkill (more code to parse means slower sites).
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20090227001433/http://www.rantin.
| ..
|
| >Most people would argue, that Smarty is a good solution for
| templating. I really can't see any valid reasons, that that
| is so. Specially since "Templating" and "Language" should
| never be in the same statement. Let alone one word after
| another. People are telling me, that Smarty is "better for
| designers, since they don't need to learn PHP!". Wait. What?
| You're not learning one programming language, but you're
| learning some other? What's the point in that, anyway? Do us
| all a favour, and just think the next time you issue that
| statement, okay?
|
| http://www.ianbicking.org/php-ghetto.html
|
| >I think the Broken Windows theory applies here. PHP is such
| a load of crap, right down to the standard library, that it
| creates a culture where it's acceptable to write horrible
| code. The bugs and security holes are so common, it doesn't
| seem so important to keep everything in order and audited.
| Fixes get applied wholesale, with monstrosities like magic
| quotes. It's like a shoot-first-ask-questions-later policing
| policy -- sure some apps get messed up, but maybe you catch a
| few attacks in the process. It's what happened when the
| language designers gave up. Maybe with PHP 5 they are trying
| to clean up the neighborhood, but that doesn't change the
| fact when you program in PHP you are programming in a dump.
| prescriptivist wrote:
| Someone doesn't like Smarty...
| FartyMcFarter wrote:
| > Even in game development, it often turns out to be a huge
| mess
|
| Mandatory link: https://blueprintsfromhell.tumblr.com/
| shakezula wrote:
| Don't know what I'm looking at but i love the idea of
| graphing software systems to explain to a layman the pure
| hell some of them can become.
| FartyMcFarter wrote:
| > Don't know what I'm looking at
|
| Unreal Engine 4 includes a visual scripting language
| called Blueprint.
|
| That website collects some of the bad examples of what
| people do with this system - a lot of the times, the
| results are the visual equivalent of spaghetti code. In
| my experience, this kind of spaghetti is quite normal in
| shipped games.
| capableweb wrote:
| > In my experience, this kind of spaghetti is quite
| normal in shipped games
|
| Just to be clear, any type of spaghetti (visual or code)
| is common in any type of shipped software product (game
| or not), especially ones where there is deadlines.
| shakezula wrote:
| Thanks for the explanation! I didn't know that. It's a
| great site, thanks for posting the link.
| KineticLensman wrote:
| > "visual coding/scripting" outside of video game development
|
| One common application of node-graph editing is shader
| construction for rendering engines. For Octane, see e.g. [0]
|
| [0]
| https://duckduckgo.com/?q=octane+render+engine+node+graph+ed...
| naillo wrote:
| As someone not in the gaming industry, what does 'visual
| coding/scripting' mean? Any links or wikipedia articles that
| describe it? (Or an explanation yourself?) I'm curiuos if it
| could work well with new developments in AI generated images
| (stable diffusion etc).
| unpopularopp wrote:
| Unreal Blueprints for example
| https://docs.unrealengine.com/5.0/en-US/blueprints-visual-
| sc... That's the leading visual scripting system
|
| This a guy has very good tutorials in video form
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY6Nl-OEhSo
| capableweb wrote:
| Houdini is also a leading example, but for the 3D/VFX/movie
| industry, where nodes/networks are basically visual
| scripting to do basically everything in the product.
|
| https://www.sidefx.com/products/houdini/
| FartyMcFarter wrote:
| > I'm curiuos if it could work well with new developments in
| AI generated images (stable diffusion etc).
|
| Visual coding is still highly symbolic and structured,
| typically a directed graph representing data flow. The
| "visual" part is just a middleman so to speak.
|
| I don't have a lot of experience with AI-generated images,
| but from what I've seen it doesn't look like its strength is
| generating highly structured/logical images.
| discordance wrote:
| I've worked a few mechatronics type gigs and Labview was
| standard there. One of the few places I have seen or used
| visual coding.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| You never saw Simulink? It's super entrenched in automotive
| and aerospace.
|
| It's also very nice to visualize models of components of
| cars/planes in Simulink using visual computing and play
| around with various blocks and learn how they affect the
| stability of the system.
| discordance wrote:
| Matlab was standard for us in university but not used
| anywhere in the industry/companies I worked.
| Dinux wrote:
| They seem to be using a lot of Microsoft/Visual Studio tools
| and some internal testing application.
| wombarly wrote:
| Basically all AAA games are build using Visual Studio in some
| way.
| d_meeze wrote:
| My experience with visual scripting or coding is that it's hard
| for more than one person to work on for anything other than a
| single screen of complexity. No git merge, so serial
| development. Hard to understand and tweak for anyone except the
| creator.
| ivanjermakov wrote:
| Two applications that come to mind that use visual scripting
| are:
|
| - Blender's Node editor[1], used to create materials and
| describe post-processing flow.
|
| - DaVinci Resolve Nodes[2], used to create reusable color
| grading profile (LUT)
|
| [1]:
| https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/2.79/editors/node_editor/...
|
| [2]: https://www.makeuseof.com/nodes-davinci-resolve-beginner-
| tut...
| ok_dad wrote:
| As someone who played gta online a lot, here's some thoughts:
|
| - the behavior of npcs is way more complex here. They're not just
| running off scared. The ones at the registers have a way more
| complex animation than the current gen game.
|
| - the cops seem to have a more refined line of sight and search
| pattern. They don't just come at you.
|
| - there is way more use of interiors here, in the current gen
| there are very few interiors other than instanced garages and
| stuff.
|
| Nothing else really stood out but it's clear that even if the
| graphics are not updated they'll still have plenty of
| improvements to gameplay mechanics and world depth.
| torginus wrote:
| I wonder if this dumb behavior in games (GTA in particular, and
| games in general) has to do with the incredibly lackluster CPU
| power in consoles - a single core of the PS4 has about 2/3rds
| the performance of a Core 2 Duo core which came out in 2006.
| aqfamnzc wrote:
| With 8 cores and (I would imagine) much more dev time put
| into optimization than your typical software, I don't see
| that as an issue really. Most home computer software is still
| single-threaded, so it makes sense a single core would need
| to be more powerful in that scenario.
|
| Although, I guess maybe my argument is moot since your
| average home PC CPU is going to have at least 4, probably
| more, cores...
| torginus wrote:
| Imo, the more complex the code, the more difficult to make
| it run multithreaded. Typical gameplay code, that
| potentially touches everything every frame, and can be
| changed on the designers whims, is typically very difficult
| to scale across codes.
|
| For example, Dwarf Fortress is one of the most complicated
| games of all time, and the creator wrote about how he kept
| to just running it on 1 core.
| bayindirh wrote:
| When you're starting from scratch, designing for multiple
| threads is relatively easy. When you're iterating on a
| previous design or your best practices from previous
| projects, it becomes very hard, because you need to
| move/refactor/redesign/reimplement a lot of code.
|
| On top of that, you need to test it, which means it's
| much more time consuming.
| ok_dad wrote:
| There's a little of that, but mostly the console does fine
| with complex AI and a fairly large number of NPCs, it's the
| games with tons of simulation state like Cities Skylines or a
| large base build with a lot of parts and physics in FO4 that
| have issues.
| AdvancedCarrot wrote:
| keep in mind that GTA V had to run on the PS3 as well. It's a
| technical marvel that the game worked at all honestly.
| haunter wrote:
| Graphics are definitely upgraded even if it's an older build.
| The volumetric fog is the same one as in RDR2
| https://imgur.com/a/BKGj0vH
| ok_dad wrote:
| Yea, based on a more detailed viewing of the leak, I feel
| like they used a lot of RDR2 code. It's been a while since I
| played RDR2, but I get a distinct feeling that the NPC
| behavior is similar to RDR2 somehow that I can't really put
| my finger on. It would make sense, because I believe RDR2 was
| using an upgraded Rage engine from the GTA5 engine.
| drummer wrote:
| Why is this not on hn front page? This is the bigger than the
| second coming of christ
| mkl95 wrote:
| It's been 9 years and this footage looks like a moderate
| improvement over GTA V. On the other hand, GTA V was released 9
| years after San Andreas and the improvement was huge. Is it tech
| debt, API complexity, financial hurdles, or something else?
| ErneX wrote:
| You are judging a leak as if it is the final game. If RDR2 is n
| indication of the quality level of Rockstar GTA VI will be a
| pretty nice game.
| [deleted]
| WastingMyTime89 wrote:
| That looks like early development footages. They are probably
| still working on both the engine and the assets. What you see
| as little to do with what it's going to look like in the end.
| mkl95 wrote:
| The question then shifts to why this hacker is posting some
| early footage. You would expect the newer stuff to be
| immediately accessible without searching etc. This is
| allegedly the same guy who hacked Uber and called them out
| for underpaying drivers, so maybe he's trying to raise
| awareness about poor security or something.
| WastingMyTime89 wrote:
| Because GTA 6 is still in the early phase of development?
|
| It wouldn't be surprising. GTA Online makes so much money,
| Rockstar probably was in no rush to develop a follow-up
| game.
| detaro wrote:
| GTA 6 is likely still years from release, it is still
| "early" when it comes to graphical polish.
| ErneX wrote:
| You'd be surprised at the amount of games that "come
| together" during the last 1-2 years of development.
|
| This is early build stuff, not worth judging it at this
| point.
| dijit wrote:
| my anecdotal experience from working on 3 AAA titles
| indicates that ErneX is spot on.
|
| Most games really don't exist as a playable format until
| about 1y before release, there are separate gates for
| features and content; content/UI/Graphics are worked on
| until about 2 months before release. Nothing before 6
| months even looks like the final product in most cases:
| just a rough outline.
| ok_dad wrote:
| Yea, I wouldn't be surprised if the recent GTA5 upgrade
| on next gen consoles was just a port of the assets to the
| newest RAGE engine so they could playtest the initial
| GTA6 missions and gameplay mechanics on it while the next
| version of the engine is perfected and the assets for
| fake Miami are developed more.
| naillo wrote:
| I'm not sure the lower end but 80% most popular GPUs have
| gotten that much stronger in the last 9 years, and that's the
| spec they likely need it to primarily work on.
| gillesjacobs wrote:
| The technical art, textures, models, etc. are definitely not
| finished. I am 99% that the final product will have many visual
| improvements over this leaked footage.
| tokamak wrote:
| I agree that it does not look next-gen at all but let's comment
| when they actually release the game. From what we know this can
| be ancient build.
| dorkwood wrote:
| What games do look next-gen?
| tokamak wrote:
| Games that utilize techniques available on the latest
| generations of hardware. For example ray-tracing. Ratchet &
| clank, Returnal, Astro's Playroom. On PC decent example is
| HL Alyx.
|
| There is a huge expectation towards GTA since Rockstar has
| a history of being one of the best. The RDR2 was stunning
| on the previous gen.
| ricardobayes wrote:
| Seeing how Genshin receives a major update basically every
| month - the size of each major version update is comparable to
| a new expansion for WoW -, I wish Chinese game development
| caught on faster. Having 5k devs/artists etc work on a project
| does make faster release cycles.
| libertine wrote:
| Maybe they aren't working on some of the visual components, but
| you can also say they are owning up to that style, as in part
| of their current gen GTA series.
|
| Like you had a very distinctive visual style on GTA 3, VC and
| San Andreas - which in part was probably due to hardware
| limitations, but R* owned it.
|
| So it wouldn't shock me if it would be something in these
| lines, to be distinctive yet familiar. Most likely the bigger
| improvements will be on online gameplay.
| als0 wrote:
| To be fair, the game still seems to be in early stages and the
| latest gossip suggests a 2025 release date.
| wan_ala wrote:
| This article is claiming that Jason Schrier believes its real.
| https://www.sportskeeda.com/gta/news-renowned-leaker-jason-s...
|
| Edit: forgot to include article
| mindcrash wrote:
| It's already gone. And Rockstar is DMCA'ing these videos faster
| than you can say "GTA 6", by the way.
| Bubble_Pop_22 wrote:
| So is it Miami or LA for the third time in a row?
|
| You can't really see it from the leak.
| kabes wrote:
| The leak contains some hints it's set in vice city.
| Laarlf wrote:
| I really hope for a COOP story. GTA V looked like the perfect
| game for it but that never happened. I really enjoy COOP games
| with friends because of the general increased hostility in
| Multiplayer games (or at least I feel like it) and the endless
| microtransactions, but I feel like there are way too few COOP
| games...
| chippiewill wrote:
| Weren't all the multiplayer heists in GTA Online basically coop
| GTA?
| aaaaaaaaata wrote:
| Not sure, still loading.
| Laarlf wrote:
| While I agree, all of them required specific amounts of
| players to play, sometimes you keep friends out, sometimes
| you had randos who had no idea what they were doing. And
| really... there were way too few of them. The playtime is not
| that long of them and they are too linear to be worth
| replaying. Saints row 3 arguably has better coop. Saints rows
| story is not built for this, but they just play the cutscenes
| at the same time and sync the world. Now if rockstar spent 12
| days implementing that... The GTA story would be almost
| perfect to play together IMO. If they bothered to sync things
| up.
|
| Your statement is not technically wrong, the best kind of not
| wrong. I saw a lot of games in the past which had some COOP
| mode which you can technically call COOP, but just has so few
| things to do that I feel like it was just an excuse to write
| COOP on the box. Battlefield 3, Far Cry 3 come to mind.
| colinthompson wrote:
| Please don't click these links or share these videos. As a member
| of the film/animation industry, hearing about leaks like this
| absolutely hits me. Please think of the hundreds of artists and
| programmers who have worked countless hours on this game. They
| are all heartbroken right now. We can all honor their hard work
| by not watching this leaked content. Wait til they finish.
| ok_dad wrote:
| Why would they be heartbroken? They'll still get to finish the
| game. Millions of people will still enjoy it like they did
| RDR2, GTAV, etc. Personally, I disagree with hacking of this
| nature, but these days people want to get a sneak preview, so
| I'm really not sure why the developers would see this as
| anything other than good, or why they wouldn't just release
| previews occasionally so people can see what's to come. None of
| this stuff is cutting edge or some sort of industry secret or
| whatever. I, personally, am more excited for GTAVI than I ever
| have been now that I've seen the amount of depth they seem to
| be adding to the previous iteration!
| [deleted]
| phreeker wrote:
| k
| throwaway102233 wrote:
| no and no. I'm getting mighty sick of this attitude 'pls
| respect artists! they are all crying right now'.
|
| how come game devs / artists are the only ones that should
| never have their work seen before they deem it to be 'ready',
| how many devs in other industries have had to push work to the
| public before they deem it 'ready'. I personally like having
| the 'curtain pulled back' so to speak, it's interesting to see
| the amount of work that goes into making a game / movie /
| whatever.
| colinthompson wrote:
| I'd say this is less "pulling back the curtain" and more
| brazen theft. But go off.
| throwaway102233 wrote:
| If rumors are correct, the leaker has the source code also,
| but hasn't chosen to release that. I'm pretty sure that
| releasing the source code would be seen as more of a dick
| move than just showing a video of some dev tools. I'm
| pretty sure we've all `stolen` software at some stage in
| our lives (looking at you Adobe), are we meant to be pearl-
| clutching over that also?
| yieldcrv wrote:
| what, can you elaborate more on why we should:
|
| 1) empathize
|
| 2) in that specific way
|
| this is a far cry from my initial thought of "don't tell me
| what to do" so I'm really curious if you can articulate in a
| way more of us can relate to
| colinthompson wrote:
| First and foremost- this content was stolen. You haven't paid
| for it. If you saw a stolen car left on the side of the road,
| would to take it for a joyride?
|
| Secondly, do you think watching these these videos is making
| anyone at rockstar fired up? Do you think they like this? I
| believe that almost all of them are deeply saddened by this.
| Should we celebrate and respect people's work by making them
| feel awful?
|
| Lastly I'm not telling anyone what to do. I'm just merely
| pointing out that this content is not soul-less. It's built
| on the backs of people who did not willingly share this
| material. I think it's awesome if people are curious, but I
| think to is incredible disrespectful to execute that
| curiosity by forcefully stealing something.
| yieldcrv wrote:
| The semantics are more important to me, and it affects my
| thoughts on your analogies too.
|
| Stealing requires moving something from its original place,
| like the car. This was copied. It is copyright
| infringement, at best, and an issue for the person copying
| for others consumption, not the consumer. Its not the
| consumers responsibility to know who has a license to avoid
| infringing a copyright, and it isn't their liability to
| view. Elaborate marketing stunt or actual leak? Not my
| responsibility to care. But let me know if you come up with
| a _more_ applicable analogy, I'm fine with analogies
| comparing dissimilar things that share something in common,
| I think this one dilutes your point here and fails at
| providing any introspective possibility.
|
| I can relate to the idea that someone wanted a _grand
| reveal_ , I don't have the same feelings as you about them
| being deprived of that goal. I think there would be plenty
| of artists in the organization that are annoyed at the
| direction of the development choices and are elated that
| the public can criticize it now.
| March_f6 wrote:
| I know this is besides the point and maybe I'm just getting
| older, but the gameplay seems particularly disturbing in way that
| it didn't 10 years ago. I guess that's to be expected given the
| nature of art.
| glassconclusion wrote:
| Looks like they are using IMGUI as dev tool:
| https://github.com/ocornut/imgui
| [deleted]
| honkdaddy wrote:
| Sidebar: if I wanted to eventually transition from Android dev
| to C++ game dev, is my time building C++ ImGui tools a
| comparable experience, or is game dev a truly different beast?
| Curious for some opinions :)
|
| The reason I like mobile and small desktop applications is
| partially for the tight cycles of build/test/fix/ship. Even
| writing it out now, the experience of working on any game of
| even moderate complexity must be entirely different, right?
| ptr wrote:
| Having a tight dev loop is important for complex games too --
| when you press F5, you build the whole game. Sometimes you
| even build the engine and all dependencies. Shipping usually
| follows a slower patch schedule since you need to pass
| certification etc.
|
| If you work on a game, building ImGui tools isn't a primary
| concern, it's what you do to be able to easily test your
| stuff.
| meibo wrote:
| If you enter any game studio nowadays, you're very likely to
| see Dear ImGui - it's pretty ubiquitous, and just flexible
| enough for programmers to make nice debug views for any
| purpose. It's nice in that you won't have to learn another UI
| kit when switching studios.
| Der_Einzige wrote:
| Wow. The paper on NLP I'm presenting soon includes software
| that I built using the python fork, dearpygui. I had no idea
| that dear imgui was so popular.
|
| It seems to me to be super high quality of a GUI library.
| gambiting wrote:
| Yeah, I work at Ubisoft and we officially sponsor the project
| too - it's used pretty much on every production we have.
|
| You can see it here being used in Rainbow Six:
| https://montreal.ubisoft.com/en/ubisoft-sponsors-user-
| interf...
| Dinux wrote:
| Yes, for their internal testing tools.
| TakeBlaster16 wrote:
| I noticed that too. I wonder if the creator has ever seen a
| dime of Rockstar's GTA money. Looks like no[1], but at least
| there are a few other AAA developers there.
|
| [1]: https://github.com/ocornut/imgui/wiki/Sponsors
| Bayart wrote:
| That would be the largest video game leak since what, Half Life 2
| ? Was there any real AAA source code leak in the meantime ?
| wombarly wrote:
| The GeForce Now leak was pretty big as well, leaked tons of
| unannounced games.
|
| There was also a leak of one of Ubisoft's games, not sure about
| source code.
| mhh__ wrote:
| Cyberpunk source got leaked IIRC
| themoonisachees wrote:
| TF2 source code leaked somewhat recently i think. the guy
| didn't leak the source code (yet) this time though.
|
| Other than that notin gaming i don't think
| alrlroipsp wrote:
| There was no source code leak here.
| ErneX wrote:
| Seems there was code too, look at the GTA Forums thread.
|
| And the HL2 gave us a nice delay. So everybody cheering for
| leaks I hope they are also cool about waiting longer for the
| finished game.
| alrlroipsp wrote:
| I read the forums. I see the hacker has source, but he has
| not leaked the source.
|
| He posted many screenshots proving he has something
| authentic, tho.
| ndiddy wrote:
| The hacker is currently trying to blackmail Take 2, will
| be interesting to see what transpires over the next few
| days.
|
| https://files.catbox.moe/5hl66u.png
| ErneX wrote:
| Yes no leak to the public yet but he released 10k lines
| of code to prove he has code.
| alrlroipsp wrote:
| I saw a pastebin to a single .cpp file, yes. Thread ended
| with the guy says he's going to sleep (~ 4 hour ago).
| mepian wrote:
| Half-Life 2 was not delayed because it was leaked, it was
| delayed because it was pretty far from being complete. You
| can read about this in The Final Hours of Half-Life 2.
| xnx wrote:
| I've exploded plenty of space Marines into red mist at point
| blank range in Doom, but this direction in realism doesn't feel
| great. Thinking about the next step in realism and AI NPCs and
| VR. Hard to see a people spending lots of time consuming this as
| a net positive.
| qumpis wrote:
| Why?
| lawxls wrote:
| Look up GTA V section on twitch. It is constantly in top 5
| categories by viewers, some months of the year on par with Just
| Chatting (Real Life). All of that thanks to Rockstar ability to
| create realistic world and community Role Play servers.
| Thaxll wrote:
| Looks like the hack was made exactly how it was done for EA using
| stolen Slack cookie: https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kvkqb/how-
| ea-games-was-hack...
|
| There was a huge leak for Diablo 4 two weeks ago as well.
| sourthyme wrote:
| The lesson is don't send passwords over slack. If you have
| slack access can you easily get access to private/historical
| messages?
| rbera wrote:
| It depends on your company's retention policy for historical
| messages. Otherwise, you're basically signed in as that user,
| so you can see whatever they see... which can be a lot
| depending on the company's transparency.
| lelandfe wrote:
| I'm aware of many companies who have moved to a 90 day
| message retention policy in Slack. I thought it was a cost
| saving measure. But I'm beginning to see the wisdom in it.
| moeadham wrote:
| They way things are going, 90 days is too long.
| djmips wrote:
| Without infinite retention, our company would lose untold
| searchable solutions to problems and other vital
| information.
| [deleted]
| dfcarney wrote:
| It's a deep hole for a company to dig itself out of, not
| to mention changing the habits of people to explicitly
| document things elsewhere.
|
| It would be neat if Slack reported stats on searches so
| that, for example, a company could better understand what
| key conversations should be moved into proper
| documents...but this is likely against Slack's interests.
| bayindirh wrote:
| In a previous project I worked on, we used to nickname the
| passwords used throughout the system. The password re-use was
| virtually non-existent, but sometimes we forgot which system
| required which one (we were installing and erasing a lot of
| servers for testing stuff).
|
| So, someone would ask a password to a system, we'd answer
| "ridiculously long one", or "the one X came up with",
| "variation 5".
|
| When one of the security guys overheard what we did, and
| asked the details, we told what we do. The answer was "oh,
| that's neat!, go on".
| Tempest1981 wrote:
| How did the initial communication occur? Whiteboard? In
| person? Shared vault?
| bayindirh wrote:
| Long living passwords shared via paper, and lived on
| people (like on their wallet, and never laid in the
| open), the other short lived ones are just remembered,
| but not mentally tied to anywhere.
|
| It was a fast-paced project, so the project dynamics made
| the method work. If the systems and passwords were more
| stable, it might not have worked this well.
| kenjackson wrote:
| I've never had someone send me a password before. What do
| they need to send passwords over slack for?
| michaelt wrote:
| Start by not having a password manager that is universally
| adopted across the corporation.
|
| Then maybe you've got a planned change that requires a
| manual operation on the production database, and you don't
| have the password already because it's rotated daily.
|
| Maybe you need the agent license key for the monitoring
| system, so you can add it to the secrets file for the new
| host you're setting up.
|
| Maybe someone created a new service and, and asked you to
| generate a new oauth2 client secret for it, and you need to
| send it to them.
|
| Maybe it's corporate policy that every laptop must have an
| encrypted disk, and you've mailed a new remote worker a
| laptop and now need to send them the disk password by a
| different channel.
|
| Maybe you occasionally need to work with some decrepit
| system that doesn't support single-sign-on - like a
| server's IPMI or some obscure bit of network equipment.
|
| Of course there are better options than slack (which
| doesn't even have an off-the-record mode) but if slack is
| what everyone uses? Well....
| naet wrote:
| I'm a contract worker and often times a company first
| onboards me to slack, then sends me a bunch of login
| information in plain text after opening an internal ticket
| to add me to various systems.
| somehnguy wrote:
| Oof, that sounds bad.
|
| My current company has an internal 'secret sharing' tool
| kind of like Pastebin (but encrypted, one time open
| links, etc) for one off sharing of things like that. For
| all other creds we use Vault heavily.
|
| PII, passwords, things like that are NEVER to go over
| Teams or email.
| nightski wrote:
| If these are temp passwords that get changed on first
| login and expire maybe it's not so bad. If it is a normal
| password though yes that is pretty bad.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| "Oh, I forgot my AWS password, can you reset it?"
|
| Fortunately, AWS from my example makes you set a new one
| after this. I'm sure there are other company-administered
| services with similar dynamics where the pwd change isn't
| required or the admin won't check that box because try are
| bad at their job
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| Even Windows has this, but there are a bunch of corner
| cases where it doesn't work.
|
| The integrated RADIUS server can be configured to allow
| passwords that need changing (so that you can actually
| connect to AD and change it if you're away). But many
| other services, like AD-backed VPNs and such, will choke
| on a password that must be changed.
| Buttons840 wrote:
| > The lesson is don't send passwords over slack.
|
| I was going to make a suggestion about PGP or GPG or
| whatever, but those tools are so bad you can't expect
| _software engineers_ to know how to use them... (not sarcasm)
|
| Snark aside. What I mean here is that GPG is difficult to use
| and I would guess 90% of programmers don't know how to use
| it.
| VPenkov wrote:
| Is describing them as bad related to their ease of use or
| is it related to technical shortcomings?
|
| I use PGP very frequently and I'd like to know what's bad
| about it so I could maybe look for alternatives.
| Buttons840 wrote:
| You're right and I'm sorry. I should have explained my
| snarky comment fully.
|
| I meant that they're difficult to use. I would love to be
| proven wrong or directed to some good resources for
| learning them.
| aborsy wrote:
| GPG works fine for me too, and is fairly straightforward
| (except for email encryption, since my recipients often
| don't want encryption, and there is also lack of good email
| clients supporting encryption).
| staticassertion wrote:
| Once a message is deleted there is no way to recover it, to
| my knowledge. But message retention in Slack is infinite.
| Further, _sessions are infinite_ , at least last I set it up.
|
| I think we set something like 1 year of retention for
| "public" channels, 9 months for private, and then certain
| channels can lower it beyond that. Same for files. And we
| have our tokens expire once a month.
|
| The defaults for Slack are pretty insane.
| [deleted]
| kgeist wrote:
| The graphics and animations look somewhat dated, but I assume the
| footage in question is about figuring out gameplay mechanics and
| most of the assets are dummy assets quickly put together for the
| prototype.
| TheAceOfHearts wrote:
| It'll be interesting to see what kind of innovations Rockstar is
| able to come up with for the next GTA, nothing stands out to me
| from these development leaks.
|
| The problem with GTA is that it's a fairly shallow game, which
| limits what kind of immersion you can experience. Imagine if it
| included more realistic elements like economics and persistent
| characters. You could decide you have a vendetta against Bob and
| steal his cheese every time he goes out shopping for groceries.
| Heck, you could become the cheese kingpin and monopolize access
| to cheese. Although a more thematic approach would probably have
| to do with drugs, which doesn't seem like too far of a bridge to
| jump considering the game genre.
| Eduard wrote:
| > The problem with GTA is that it's a fairly shallow game,
| which limits what kind of immersion you can experience.
|
| What?
| wongarsu wrote:
| GTA has incredible breadth. There are lots of things to do in
| a big open world. But everything is also incredibly shallow.
|
| That's more or less what you expect. Resources are finite,
| and unless you're Tarn Adams you generally chose to make a
| couple very complex things, or a lot of fairly simple ones.
| Sometimes you get depth from the interaction of simple
| things, but GTA rarely does
| ehnto wrote:
| GTA definitely stands to gain a lot from more systemic
| gameplay. But I would argue that this is already their
| tactic, they just haven't got as many systems, and they've
| culled the possible interactions to make sure they're
| deliverable gameplay loops are tight, fun and expected.
|
| They are some of the blockbusters of gaming, so I'm not
| surprised they've gotten a little cautious.
| petepete wrote:
| While it won't be to everyone's taste, NakeyJakey has a
| rather in-depth video about Rockstar's game design and how it
| falls short in some ways. I _loved_ RDR2 but the missions
| were definitely the weakest part. Exploring the world was the
| best bit by a mile.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvJPKOLDSos&t=1932s
| V__ wrote:
| Thank you for posting this. I had the same frustrations as
| him, but couldn't quite articulate why until this video.
| fudgefactorfive wrote:
| This is famously an issue with Rockstar style missions, they
| are so adherent to a script that even minor Playstyle
| variations lead to logical deadlocks. Red Dead 2 had the same
| issue, players finding paths to the door they know stuff is
| happening behind only for them to literally not function
| until an NPC points them out to you.
|
| I want a world where I can figure out what to do next and
| that still functions, not one where Character X has to tell
| me to move to the next room for the doors to work as doors.
| treis wrote:
| I think it's pretty much all open world games. As wide as
| the ocean but as deep as a puddle. Outside of the pre-
| scripted story you have basically no impact on the world as
| the player.
| estebank wrote:
| You want the original Deus Ex.
| ethbr0 wrote:
| Ah, Ion Storm Austin (Deus Ex). And Looking Glass Studios
| (Thief).
|
| We didn't know how far in the future we were living...
| fudgefactorfive wrote:
| Haven't played it, but admittedly I've seen the
| Hbomberguy video on it and was really interested. Might
| take another look.
| prox wrote:
| This is pretty much what happens to a ton of games. It
| _seems_ open, but you can't do any creative solutions
| because it isn't part of the design. Not saying it isn't
| tough, but a company like Rockstar should have the ability
| to pull it off.
|
| Just yesterday I learned that in Skyrim, there is a
| caretaker in the orphanage called Grelod the Kind, who is
| terrible to the children. So apparently if you are a
| pacifist, you can put a fear spell on her and she will run
| out the orphanage and she gets killed by a beggar there.
| That's brilliant! It tells a story (beggar must have got
| her kid in) and it's another way to solve the problem.
| fudgefactorfive wrote:
| Exactly, it's worlds that aren't a sequence of stories
| but a mesh of relationships that seem much more alive.
|
| I can obviously see how it's much harder to make a
| narrative state machine than a sequence of events with
| maybe a few branches, but still it's disappointing when
| huge budgets are spent on visuals alone with no good
| reason to examine them deeply.
|
| _Cough_ Cyberpunk 2077 _Cough_.
| omnibrain wrote:
| Have you ever played Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines?
| fudgefactorfive wrote:
| I haven't actually but I've heard great things. I admit
| the setting isn't one I usually pursue, but I'll get over
| myself and take a look.
| RicoElectrico wrote:
| This wasn't always the case. Missions in GTA 3 - GTA SA
| were much more goal-focused, less scripted. You could
| approach them as you wanted to.
| kinnth wrote:
| Yeah i'd agree here that GTA is not a shallow game, it's got
| multiple levels of openworld interactions that you can chose
| to interact with or not.
|
| What it doesn't have is strict or difficult obstacles that
| give a perceived difficulty. The game's difficulty hits a
| plateau quite early on and then it's really an exploration
| and narrative experience. Which most people prefer. GTA
| online is a different beast and probably where this one will
| focus. More live ops and changing / persistent world, more
| like fortnite's map would be my guess.
| koheripbal wrote:
| By "shallow", they mean that there is no interesting story
| line.
|
| I think for our age group, game mechanics and open world
| are not enough - we want to be told/discover an interesting
| story.
| mrstone wrote:
| Honestly such an odd take. The games are all plenty immersive
| detaro wrote:
| I get where they are coming from. It's incredibly easy to
| break through the facade of the surface polish that is there
| to suggest "this is a real living city!". In some ways, I
| found that worse in 5 vs earlier games because the surface
| polish is so nice. But then you still can't interact with a
| lot of it, or the interaction is always the same. Most of it
| is just pretty set-dressing which falls over once you
| slightly push it. Which given the scale is not surprising,
| but it still breaks the immersion if you poke it even
| lightly. You notice the the AI being somewhat shallow, NPCs
| having nearly no interactions, ...
|
| And even in the fleshed-out parts, the NPCs relevant for
| missions, that's all very linear and basically only
| interacted with for missions.
|
| To slightly exaggerate, it's a good interactive action movie,
| and a very nice sandbox to do stupid shit with vehicles in.
| (Don't get me wrong, that's a totally fine thing to be! But
| it leads to tradeoffs that make other parts shallow)
| ethbr0 wrote:
| It feels like anything targeted at consoles (so, all AAA)
| must sacrifice simulation to performance.
|
| In the PC-first era, "Your machine just isn't fast enough"
| was a viable position for a developer.
|
| But with fixed console specs, there's no "more" to
| encourage players to upgrade to.
| tumdum_ wrote:
| When was that ,,PC-first era"?
| syndacks wrote:
| Most missions: - get to some location (after a cut scene
| dialogue) - do the task (with some unique element ie kill the
| character who was fucking someone's wife) - return to the
| original location
| omnibrain wrote:
| The "get to some location" part was better in GTA IV. Not
| only was the dialogue more interesting, there were two sets
| of dialogue for every mission, so if you falied and had to
| do the "get to location" part again, you got a whole
| different set of dialogues. But it seems noone ever noticed
| and there are almost no mentions of it on the internet.
| pdntspa wrote:
| That was observed in almost every review I read of it at
| the time.
|
| Doesn't GTA V do the multiple dialogs thing too? I could
| have sworn it did.
| omnibrain wrote:
| That's possible that it was discussed back then, but
| there are only few ressources (like youtube videos
| comparing the dialogues) nowadays event mentioning that.
|
| I don't think GTA V does that, driving to missions works
| differently, there is less dialogue on the way and the
| "check point" is closer to the actual mission and I even
| tried to provoke different dialogues by failing missions
| because I wanted to hear alternate dialogue.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| 1. Get instruction to go to location X
|
| 2. Make sure to get my super fast car for the inevitable
| getaway
|
| 3. Drive towards location
|
| 4. Cutscene triggers
|
| 5. Car has been swapped for totally different junk car used
| by character
| moron4hire wrote:
| The missions are the least interesting part of the game.
| Who even plays the missions for any reason other than just
| to open the locked portions of the map?
|
| EDIT: Also, your description of the "mission structure" is
| so vague it could apply to any mission-based game,
| anywhere.
| pas wrote:
| all my GTA knowledge is from GTA II and a few hours with
| III, but ... okay, so what do you do after the locked
| parts are no longer locked?
| DisjointedHunt wrote:
| Some of my best memories are riding a bike around the
| environment with the radio on be it in San Andreas or in
| V, the gameplay and immersion are great for a real life
| simulation of no rules riding.
| [deleted]
| moron4hire wrote:
| screw around, race, jump cars, try to find all the hidden
| junk.
| pas wrote:
| > find all the hidden junk
|
| Hm, I loved doing that in platformers (most recently Ori
| and the Blind Forest), but wouldn't associate achievement
| hunting with GTA, but I'm clearly not familiar with
| recent GTA games.
| TingPing wrote:
| I think the hidden content is very boring in GTA V
| personally. It's an empty world outside of the main
| story. It's a real shame all additions were online only.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| +1 What's described here is what I loved in San Andreas,
| but it's been going down since.
| brnt wrote:
| Turn on an audiobook, podcasts, music, and drive. Usually
| begin by going rond the coast.
| danpalmer wrote:
| The least interesting part of the game? I've played
| through GTA V ~2.5 times now, I really enjoy the story
| missions and finding fun side quests to do. The sandbox
| side of the game is far less interesting to me as it's
| unstructured.
|
| Sure it's not the most immersive game, real RPGs are much
| more so, but it's fun. I'm looking forward to playing
| through another story, finding more funny side quests,
| etc.
| moron4hire wrote:
| I don't think I have ever finished any sandbox
| environment game. I've played several, hundreds of hours
| into each. Just... happy with just screwing around, bored
| with being told what to do.
| rowanG077 wrote:
| I think the mission are the most interesting things in
| the game. The rest gets boring for me after 30 mins.
| Precisely because it's so shallow.
| _fat_santa wrote:
| GTA can be such a wildly different experience based on how
| you play. You have regular "Online" that's hosted by Rockstar
| but you also have FiveM which are a bunch of modded servers
| mostly meant for roleplay.
|
| I hope that Rockstar took a cue from FiveM and incorporates
| role play into GTA 6 online. I've played on some FiveM
| servers and it's pretty incredible, there are full servers
| doing cops and robbers, with mods for everything from writing
| tickets to police radio only the ones playing the cops have
| access to.
|
| Compared to GTA Online, it's a wildly different experience.
| And I hope Rockstar includes something like that in GTA 6, it
| would honestly help them not have to make so much content so
| often, make the game robust enough where players can create
| their own fun. We know it's possible because FiveM did it,
| and if those guys can do it, Rockstar should have no trouble.
| whatyesaid wrote:
| Roleplay servers require a lot of human moderation, else it
| won't be roleplay and it will be trollish and simply like
| an advanced Cops and Robbers mode. The development isn't
| the problem. They could make a server listing and make
| 'FiveM' or 'RageMP' part of the default experience.
| Although a lot of these servers ask for donations so they
| may not want to redirect players away from the stuff they
| sell.
|
| RP goes way back than 5, as a matter of fact there are
| still active servers for GTA San Andreas Roleplay (SAMP)
| and of course Arma was popular in the past.
| Stevvo wrote:
| No, no, no. Roleplay servers do _not_ require human
| moderation. What all these servers seem to miss is that
| you should enforce your design objectives through _game
| design_ rather than moderation and rules. Eve Online is
| the best example of this; it 's what every role-play
| server aspires to be. Moderation is minimal; the game
| takes care of all issues that arise long before human
| moderation has to get involved.
| behaveEc0n00 wrote:
| Constraints on software create human reaction
| constraints; I can't react to behavior that never happens
|
| You're just abstracting "the rules" into "game design"
| bee_rider wrote:
| Eve Online sort of cheats by being a corporate
| backstabbing and trade game, the set of actions that the
| characters might want to take can literally be performed
| by the players. This seems more like a LARP (just,
| LARPing as a person using a computer), rather than a
| conventional videogame where you control an avatar and
| make it do things. And LARPs are typically a more
| immersive way of roleplaying.
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| >Roleplay servers require a lot of human moderation, else
| it won't be roleplay and it will be trollish
|
| Lets not forget the regular online is just 3 people
| chasing you around the map on their hover bikes with
| rocket launchers no matter what server you end up on.
| chrononaut wrote:
| I am curious if roleplay servers would self-moderate better
| if all characters were hardcore. i.e., lose everything and
| your character if you die, although not if you're arrested.
|
| I wonder if this would even be possible in GTA.
| mhh__ wrote:
| They will add that stuff, i.e. more than they did with RDR2 -
| it's inevitable.
|
| Unisoft have done it a fair bit with Watch Dogs, don't think
| anyone cares that much about it really.
|
| The thing that rockstar are really good at is the world-
| building - Los Santos just feels so authentic, even if an
| obvious parody: Even the radio voice actors are so well casted
| that the voice of non stop pop (Cara Delevingne) is allegedly a
| cokehead in real life too!
| beckman466 wrote:
| > (Cara Delevingne) is allegedly a cokehead
|
| can't believe she doesn't like pepsi. smh
| pdntspa wrote:
| One of my favorite things to do in Watchdogs 2 is just walk
| around calling in arrests and assassinations on opposing
| factions and watching how ridiculous the fireworks get.
| raydev wrote:
| You've described exactly what I _don 't_ want from GTA.
|
| GTA 4 and 5 were my favorite games. There's enough depth from
| the story and gameplay for me to have sunk so many hours of my
| life into them.
|
| I just want better graphics, more pedestrians/NPCs, way more
| vehicle traffic, and cheat codes to disable the police when I
| get bored and want to blow stuff up.
| neilv wrote:
| GTA V at launch did have stock exchanges you could trade on,
| and I'd gotten the impression these were going to be a bigger
| game mechanic in future updates to the game, but then I never
| heard more.
| https://gta.fandom.com/wiki/Liberty_City_National_Exchange#C...
|
| The GTA San Andreas gang turfs, with the aggro rival gang
| members who'd start trouble when you were minding your own
| business, were one of my favorite parts of the game.
| omnibrain wrote:
| They broke the game by themselves, because Franklin was
| intended to be broke, like you expect someone with his
| background to be, but for some reason (preorder bonus or
| somehing similar) you immediately receive a huge amount of
| ingame money after the game starts. Totally breaks the
| beginning.
|
| That was way better in GTAIV where you constantly struggled
| for money and only after the big bank job became somewhat
| flush.
| kotaKat wrote:
| They abandoned basically most single-player content if only
| because GTA:Online was their cash cow.
| aaaaaaaaata wrote:
| Billions of dollars can't be wrong, it was obviously the
| better game experience! /s
| raydev wrote:
| The free money didn't hurt but I don't think GTAV's
| stagnation was that cynical.
|
| Two or three top people behind GTA left RockStar, and the
| first heist was delayed by _years_ presumably by technical
| difficulties.
|
| The lack of updates/progress, for years, implies internal
| disruption more than anything, and GTA6 development likely
| started up a couple years ago.
| omnibrain wrote:
| Yes, even large parts of the map went unused in single
| player.
|
| And the heists mechanic was seriously underused. Just when
| you got the hang of it, it was the last heist in the story.
| I would have paid money for a DLC bringing more heists.
| aaaaaaaaata wrote:
| > even large parts of the map went unused in single
| player.
|
| They intentionally wanted to leave space for the player
| to explore in that release.
|
| > I would have paid money for a DLC bringing more heists.
|
| They had promised this Half-Life 3 style for
| years....dirtbags!
| Animats wrote:
| As in real life, players could make far more money on the
| stock exchanges than by street crime. Stocks responded
| strongly to events in the game world after they occurred, so
| as soon as you knew something was going down, making the
| proper investment was a pretty sure win. That broke the game
| balance.
| crazygringo wrote:
| GTA isn't where you go to for innovations -- its DNA is pretty
| set in stone, and judging from its economic success, it's DNA
| is great.
|
| Presumably it's just going to be another (revisited) location,
| better graphics/animation/AI, stories are getting more complex,
| even bigger maps with even more side missions and discoveries,
| and probably another leap in terms in realism of NPC's -- much
| like RDR2 lets you have (elementary) conversations with
| virtually everyone, and NPC's follow much more realistic entire
| "paths" and activities during the day.
|
| GTA has always been about unparalleled breadth, not depth. Deep
| and narrow is the DNA of other different types of games. And
| nobody has the resources to to deep _and_ broad. GTA 's breadth
| and shallowness is its defining feature, not its problem.
| fibonacc wrote:
| Perhaps people have been seeking a more generational leap but
| from the footage you are correct, they just iterated on top
| of what worked, and likely have thousands of hours of insight
| into what sells.
|
| I was hoping that they would at least upgrade the graphic
| side of the things, it does seem like from this video, that
| it could easily be just another DLC.
|
| Think after I saw that Matrix demo from Unreal Engine, that
| trend would carry on into city roaming sandbox games.
|
| Still can't wait to pick up this game in 2 to 3 years when
| all the bugs are fixed and they have a discount.
| kennywinker wrote:
| With Moore's law over, I wouldn't expect huge leaps and
| bounds in graphics again any time soon. Expect incremental
| improvement, and honing in on the details that matter to
| immersion. I for one find graphics "good enough" for the
| most part, and I'd would rather the budget go into NPC AI,
| character movement, and storytelling.
| oefnak wrote:
| Why would you think Moore's law is over?
| kennywinker wrote:
| Because people in the know have been saying it's dead for
| a while. E.g.
|
| https://www.technologyreview.com/2016/05/13/245938/moores
| -la...
|
| https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/moores-law-is-dead-
| nvidi...
| sebzim4500 wrote:
| Moore's law has been 'over' for ages, it hasn't stopped
| video games graphics improving substantially between
| console generations.
| kennywinker wrote:
| Ages? I think it was about 2016 when people started
| credibly saying it's over. So, that's 8 years ago, which
| is about how long i think it took for the high end to
| trickle down to affordable. The graphics difference
| between a ps4 and a ps5 are... noticeable, but not
| shocking, and they were released in 2013 and 2020
| respectively.
| capableweb wrote:
| > It'll be interesting to see what kind of innovations Rockstar
| is able to come up with for the next GTA, nothing stands out to
| me from these development leaks.
|
| I just saw the video quickly, without viewing it all. But the
| added interaction menu (multiple choices, one was "Rob") seems
| like it'll add a lot of interactivity to the world. AI seems to
| have much more complex behavior as well, which would add even
| more "life-like" feel to the game and again, more
| interactivity.
|
| But, this is a early development build, those could just be
| prototypes that won't make it into the final game. Certainly a
| lot of new features are also not shown in the video.
|
| Don't think Rockstar would work and release a GTA that is just
| a minor improvement on the previous version, they always make
| leaps when it comes to quality of GTA releases.
| TingPing wrote:
| You could rob places in every game since San Andreas. It was
| never interesting.
| aaaaaaaaata wrote:
| You could point a gun at a person (on street, clerk, etc),
| and it would trigger a fear response of running, or
| shitting out some algorithmically decided amount of money.
| capableweb wrote:
| Yeah, by pointing the gun at them. If you look at the
| videos again, it seems like looking at a person brings up
| multiple alternatives, one of them being to rob them, but
| seemingly there will be other options as well.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| I found that added systems, like survival stats, to Red Dead 2
| distracted from the incredible story. I think I just want a
| mature, emotionally deep story from Rockstar games. GTA5 got a
| bit close, but RDR2 proved they're fully capable of making a
| masterpiece story.
| capableweb wrote:
| GTA always been "kind of serious but mostly comedy and
| sarcasm/parody" and RDR always been "This is deadly serious"
| so the stories will reflect that. I wouldn't assume GTA will
| have as serious story as RDR2 had.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| That's a good point. Perhaps I'm just opining that I wish
| for a deadly serious game in modern times. Not post
| apocalypse. Not historical.
| honkdaddy wrote:
| I'd play that game too. It'd be dark, controversial, and
| a political minefield, but I think a story-driven FPS set
| in a civil warring 2030 America would be awesome. The
| usual stories in CoD or Battlefield of USA military vs
| insurgents who are vaguely slavic or vaguely middle
| eastern have gotten stale for me - I'd love to see what
| game designers think all-American militia battles in NYC
| or Miami could feel like.
|
| Again, it'd be super controversial and will probably
| never get made, but I'd play a game like that.
| [deleted]
| inc3pt wrote:
| If you haven't tried it yet, I think Far Cry 5 fits your
| desired description somewhat. I only played it for the
| first time recently despite it coming out several years
| ago and it was a little "too real" at times.
|
| It has over the top moments (like GTA) but I think the
| story is compelling and it's not hard to see the
| parallels to modern day groups and events.
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| RDR2 didn't have survival stats, you could eat and stuff but
| it didn't matter and just buffed you.
|
| Personally I'd have preferred it if i I had to eat and had to
| set up camp for the night. That level of roleplaying really
| helps the world feel tangible for me.
| bee_rider wrote:
| The food system in Valheim was the best I've ever seen. It
| isn't really survival, you don't _have_ to eat to stay
| alive, but it gives you significant enough buffs that it is
| basically required for anything past the easiest fights.
| But your character is basically functional without food
| (you can walk around your base and do stuff; you won 't,
| like, slowly die).
|
| Too many "realistic" food systems feel like a tedious
| system to be engaged with just to avoid punishment. This
| somehow feels more like a reward.
| spaceman_2020 wrote:
| I hope its like RDR2, but in a modern city.
|
| For me, RDR2 remains the benchmark for what kind of immersive
| experience a game can create. Nothing has topped it so far.
| iLoveOncall wrote:
| I think they overdid it and it did not serve gameplay well.
|
| I played a lot of GTA V but in RDR 2 the character is so slow
| that moving or interacting with anything is a chore. I
| stopped playing after 5ish hours and that was the only
| reason.
|
| Gameplay is more important than immersion.
| wil421 wrote:
| Echo the same about RDR2. The controls were wonky and the
| character very slow. Not to mention all the times I
| accidentally did something to piss off the townspeople.
| cjf4 wrote:
| I started out thinking RDR2 was immersive, but the theme park
| ride on rails main plot missions absolutely killed it, and
| diminished all the cool world stuff they did.
| sergiotapia wrote:
| I hope it's not. I had to stop playing RDR2 after about 4
| hours when I realized what a slog it was to do anything in
| that game. Even walking was clunky in the name of "realism".
| Please no more of that.
| thiht wrote:
| Agree. RDR2 might be the most boring game I've ever played.
| holoduke wrote:
| For me the witcher3. Story telling and immersivity is just
| great.
| DonHopkins wrote:
| >Imagine if it included more realistic elements like economics
| and persistent characters. You could decide you have a vendetta
| against Bob and steal his cheese every time he goes out
| shopping for groceries. Heck, you could become the cheese
| kingpin and monopolize access to cheese. Although a more
| thematic approach would probably have to do with drugs, which
| doesn't seem like too far of a bridge to jump considering the
| game genre.
|
| The fun thing about playing video games is how easy it is to
| imagine yourself a video game designer who could easily
| criticize any other game's design and implementation while
| easily designing and implementing an even more fun more
| beautiful easier to play game that everyone would want to
| easily play so much they would easily spend more than enough
| money on it to easily pay you to quickly and easily implement
| on time and on budget.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| What you describe is what I've wanted ever since San Andreas
| which to me was the high point in open gameplay for GTA. Ever
| since I played that in college while working on a thesis on
| machine learning I've been fantasizing about building a fully
| autonomous NPC system that leads to fully emergent behavior
| from individual to societal level, including the NPCs shaping
| the world to their needs by constructing dwellings, fields etc.
| Every character would have skills that adjust based on their
| behavior, basic maslov needs and would act based on that and
| utilizer the environment to fill the needs. Between characters
| relationship values would exist and they can exchange
| information and have something like gossip. Being dropped into
| a world with these dynamics as a player would to me be the most
| fun game imaginable. I always shied away from actually building
| this because I felt that the route to profit is longer and
| riskier than your average web app side project and I wanted to
| use my very limited side project motivation and energy on
| something serious. Maybe that was a mistake since I'm really
| passionate about this idea and probably would have put way more
| time in for this than anything else...
|
| That side, I think GTA has been moving further away from this
| vision since San Andreas. San Andreas had a ton of stuff to do
| outside the main missions. GTA IV frustrated me because it kept
| feeling like player choice was secondary to telling their
| story. I was so upset when I lost my original apartment when
| buying a new one. In SA collecting all the houses was a driving
| motivator for me. And V just got rid of so much in single
| player to prioritize online which I couldn't care less about.
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| > And V just got rid of so much in single player to
| prioritize online
|
| I couldn't really play V post completing the game, I'm
| actually convinced it was completely broken and I'm surprised
| more don't talk about it.
|
| Whenever you respawned the cars that are driving around you
| would always be the same no matter really where you were and
| it felt like once they were spawned it struggled to have
| memory slots to spawn in any others so really all that was
| available were that 4x4 and a few others. I had a theory that
| the car spawning seed was derived from the mission state
| somehow so it was always using the same seed in the post-game
| and because Online was the priority they never bothered
| fixing it or noticing.
|
| If you drove around for 15 minutes you started getting more
| cars in the pool but the cops were so aggressive and psychic
| the game just wasn't much fun anyway.
| NickC25 wrote:
| >* And V just got rid of so much in single player to
| prioritize online which I couldn't care less about. *
|
| This! I thought GTA V's single player was way too short. I
| love online gaming, but I never enjoyed the multiplayer GTA -
| the whole point of GTA to me was exploring a massive map and
| finding tons of little easter eggs the developers
| left....well, that and seeing how long I could go with 5
| wanted stars and unlimited ammo.
|
| A map as large as GTA: SA, GTA IV or GTA V is much more fun
| when explored individually, not with 100 other people
| simultaneously (especially when some of those 100 people are
| there to troll everyone else and do stupid things that ruin
| the experience for everyone else).
|
| Shame Rockstar made so much money with GTA Online, to the
| point where developing it out for over a decade was more
| worth it to them than building the next GTA. I think the
| PS4/XBONE console generation was the first generation to not
| have a GTA title built for it. It's literally just a slight
| graphical improvement over the PS3/X360 release. Same goes
| for the PS5/XSX release. Nothing new added.
| kenjackson wrote:
| GTA is fairly shallow? IMO it seems like one of the richest
| experience games I've played. It's shallow in its blatant
| materialism, but that's part of the point of the game.
| MichaelCollins wrote:
| Compared to San Andreas, GTA V's single player RPG elements
| were about as deep as a puddle. I've heard RDR2 was much
| better in this regard though, so maybe there is hope for GTA
| VI.
| koheripbal wrote:
| They mean "shallow" as in there is no interesting story line.
| phillryu wrote:
| I interpreted it more about its game design - GTA is about
| a giant sprawling city come to life as an interactive
| playground, one way you can think of it is most genres of
| games are represented within it. (Story game, single
| player, online semi MMO, anarchy sandbox simulator, life
| sim, racing, deathmatch shooter, gambling game, sports
| game, Crazy Taxi, flying, etc.) But that also means fans of
| those individual genres looking mainly for that specific
| experience within it will be disappointed by the lack of
| depth or richness compared to games that focus purely on
| that one genre vs all at once. That said this is probably
| the most expensive game ever made, so they are also able to
| invest surprising depth into each of these 'genres' despite
| it all. And I guess that is one reason why GTA V (previous
| in the series) has sold something like 150 million copies -
| it's a very different game to many groups of these
| customers but still satisfying.
| kodt wrote:
| GTAV had an interesting story. At least as far as video
| games are concerned.
| Bayko wrote:
| Right? It was literally lauded for it's sp story line.
| Like I wonder if these guys type for the sake of
| typing...
| phatfish wrote:
| "Part 2" is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ujhGmSImQg
| staticassertion wrote:
| Kinda nice that someone's going around showing how shitty the
| average company's security is. Not that I outright _support_
| crime, but it 's good to have these anecdotes to point to -
| silver lining, I suppose.
|
| There's really only so much you can say about a company's
| security through a bug bounty. You can't show how devastating a
| vuln would be, you're stuck on the perimeter, etc. It leads to
| companies improving appsec a lot, which is great, but everything
| else is still weak.
| mkl95 wrote:
| Yup. The average company lets their employees paste credentials
| on Slack, email them, etc. and they are allowed to be things
| like "password". The challenge is not really to hack them, is
| being willing to do it.
| guerrilla wrote:
| > Kinda nice that someone's going around showing how shitty the
| average company's security is. Not that I outright support
| crime, but it's good to have these anecdotes to point to -
| silver lining, I suppose.
|
| Remember lulzsec? If not, I think you would have liked that
| drama.
| staticassertion wrote:
| Oh yeah, for sure. It seems like antisec has taken a
| significant back seat to bug bounties and the like.
| Insanity wrote:
| I loved GTA as a teenager, messing around in III or SA with
| cheats. Spawning random crap and having a huge sandbox to play
| in.
|
| Guess I did grow out of that, as neither IV nor V managed to keep
| my interest for more than a few hours.
| mhh__ wrote:
| Seems legit to my eyes.
|
| Game engine looks like an upgraded GTA V, UI is apparently
| authentic rockstar.
| DonHopkins wrote:
| Yes, I love that user interface design style. I predict it will
| have an ironic resurgence. Some day "Flat Design" will fall out
| of fashion and all iPhones and Android devices will look that
| way, mark my word!
| moffkalast wrote:
| Interesting that they're still using what seems like GTA 5
| assets but I suppose it makes sense to use them as placeholders
| while working on story and gameplay, while the art teams churns
| the new ones out.
| mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
| Hopefully it has a good single player mode. I have no interest in
| GTA online or any other online game for that matter. Gaming for
| me is about escape and immersion, not toxic interactions with
| others which is 90% of what I got when I tried GTA online.
| koheripbal wrote:
| I did not see much evidence of story line anywhere in the leak.
| It looked entirely like resource collection and vanilla game
| mechanics.
|
| No checkpoints were visible even. I think it's far more likely
| that this game will be about "open world" and "multiplayer"
| combat and driving mechanics, centered around resource
| collection.
| hoffs wrote:
| Or you know, most early stage development is about making the
| game work before actual story is built
| koheripbal wrote:
| That's not been my experience. Typically both are developed
| in parallel. The integration of the story into the dev
| build might come later, but certain entities that enable
| story development should be there. Things like checkpoints,
| non-background characters, locations/state driven events,
| unique items and environments, etc... What I saw in this
| leak did not include anything that - it all seem generic,
| and that pile-o-cash loot item highlights what the mission
| reward system is going to be like.
| ChildOfChaos wrote:
| Hope so too, but online is such a cash cow for companies they
| often don't care much about the single player experience
| anymore
| [deleted]
| ErneX wrote:
| It has a full campaign, don't worry.
| mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
| That's good. I've been worried with all the GTA Online ads
| I've been seeing lately that they were gonna go all in on it.
| throwaway743 wrote:
| Hopefully side activities too. One feature I wish they'd
| bring back are the turf wars from San Andreas.
|
| Personally felt like it was almost a bigger calling to than
| the missions. The reward felt greater as it gave the sense of
| ownership and expanding one's territory/empire, which also
| gave the benefit of not stressing about being taken out by a
| gang during missions.
|
| Either way, can't wait to see what they have to present.
| midislack wrote:
| Kyle, the Kenosha Kid, is set to be a villain in this
| installation! Take THAT lol.
| miyuru wrote:
| link to the leak:
| https://gtaforums.com/topic/985481-gta-6-americas-leak-90-mp...
| atfzl wrote:
| The person who posted the link says they were the one who broke
| into Uber recently.
|
| > My previous work:
| https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/15/technology/uber-hacking-b...
| Bayart wrote:
| > The hacker, who provided screenshots of internal Uber
| systems to demonstrate his access, said that he was 18 years
| old and had been working on his cybersecurity skills for
| several years. He said he had broken into Uber's systems
| because the company had weak security. In the Slack message
| that announced the breach, the person also said Uber drivers
| should receive higher pay.
|
| Seems like a nice kid. I hope he doesn't get caught in
| litigations.
| i_like_apis wrote:
| Screw that kid.
|
| Not even grey hat activity.
| 10x_contrarian wrote:
| They also apparently posted the n-word in company chat and
| redirected all internal tools to a graphic shock image.
| Nice kid indeed.
| KronisLV wrote:
| > I hope he doesn't get caught in litigations.
|
| If you ever discover vulnerabilities, responsible
| disclosure seems like the only way to _try_ to keep
| yourself out of trouble and even then only if ignorant
| people in the company /lawmakers won't misconstrue what has
| happened and want to put you in jail regardless.
|
| Going on the company Slack, announcing that you're a hacker
| who has stolen data and finishing your messages with
| something negative about the company does not seem to be a
| good way of doing that:
|
| > Hi @here
|
| > I announce i am a hacker and uber has suffered a data
| breach.
|
| > Slack has been stolen, confidential data with Confluence,
| stash and 2 monorepos from phabricator have also been
| stolen, along with secrets from sneakers.
|
| > #uberunderpaisdrives
|
| That feels like opening yourself up to being treated as a
| criminal, especially if you post about it elsewhere (like
| social media) and the "breach" gets attention, which might
| negatively impact the stock price of the company in
| question.
|
| It's good that many companies out there have bug bounties
| and hopefully InfoSec will be improved as a consequence of
| this, but there are better ways about achieving the same
| result, without putting yourself at so much risk.
| boltzmann-brain wrote:
| It should be clear that the user you're replying to was
| using humor.
| that_guy_iain wrote:
| Well, considering what they did was a crime. Being
| treated like a criminal seems fair.
| KronisLV wrote:
| Indeed, which is unfortunate, since there already is a
| better way to go about this (in most cases):
| https://hackerone.com/uber?type=team
|
| Except for the social engineering aspect, in regards to
| acquiring the credentials, however.
|
| Which makes the situation even more problematic.
| parkingrift wrote:
| This kind found a power shell script on a shared drive
| with plain text admin credentials to practically every
| internal Uber system. How exactly is anyone supposed to
| submit a bug bounty for that?
| that_guy_iain wrote:
| I'm not sure why people are acting like this was anything
| but a criminal act that was from beginning to end
| anything but a security researcher.
|
| Just because it was a teen whole wrote that they stole
| things.
| [deleted]
| 878654Tom wrote:
| I sometimes do these bug bounties and some of these are
| just...
|
| I mean Uber critical max payout is... $15.000. These are
| bugs that leak out client data and could possible damage
| the company for millions. I've had companies that argued
| with me that loss of client data wasn't critical but
| minor. Some even just give a bounty of $250.
|
| Not that this excuses the behavior of hackers leaking
| confidential data but companies easily pay millions for
| anti-virus software that only detects well-known viruses
| but skimp on zero-days in their own software.
| Tiberium wrote:
| I am kind of skeptical - the original author of the GTA 6
| leak left a Telegram username to contact him, but that
| Telegram account was only registered today/yesterday (ID
| 5731422660), so it might as well be someone else who's trying
| to impersonate that Uber hacker.
|
| Or it could simply be that his older account got
| lost/blocked/something else so he made a new one :)
| honkdaddy wrote:
| Wow, I can't believe the amount of skepticism and hate the guy
| initially got! He posts what will end up being a historically
| important leak that'll hit the mainstream news, and the first
| comment is "Sorry bud no pic no click".
|
| Gamer forums can be a prickly place, haha.
| oldstrangers wrote:
| That was actually an entertaining ride. Watching the initial
| doubt and skepticism slow turn into realization and fear.
| _joel wrote:
| Well, fake leaks aren't exactly uncommon.
| LinuxBender wrote:
| Will GTA VI address the massive security issues around the game
| client and their community databases that exist in GTA V? Will
| players have to use mod menu's to avoid being crashed, booted,
| doxxed, insta-killed and their internet connection reset?
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| I remember pissing somebody off so much that they ddosed my
| friend and I but they didn't have the bandwidth to do both at
| the same time. Our home internet connections took turns being
| knocked offline for a few hours.
|
| It's funny how ready some people are to commit federal crimes
| over a multiplayer game.
| SebastianKra wrote:
| GTA Online seems to encourage a very unusual kind of
| contempt. Rage in games is not uncommon, but here it's as if
| it's the default mode of play.
|
| PvP usually starts out of spite (eg. Player A kills Player B
| out of boredom) and then turns into pissing matches over who
| has bought the most expensive toys. The end-game is literally
| a Microtransaction that instantly kills anyone for 7EUR real
| Money.
| activitypea wrote:
| I hope that color pallette is not representative of the final
| game. The washed out gray and light browns don't really scream
| "vice city" to me.
| czottmann wrote:
| Isn't this worthless without the somewhat ham-fisted social
| commentary of the actual game?
| that_guy_iain wrote:
| I just hope this doesn't result in them rushing it out to launch.
| Rushing games (or any software product) to launch just results in
| a crappy product that no one wants to use and needs lots of work
| to make it a product ready to be used.
| capableweb wrote:
| Well, if it's something Rockstar is not famous for, is rushing
| out releases. GTA V was released in 2013 and they probably
| started working on GTA VI right at launch if not before that.
| So rest assure, it doesn't seem rushed.
|
| Besides, most if not every game looks like trash until just
| ahead of proper launch, that's just the state of game dev.
| that_guy_iain wrote:
| To be fair, Projekt CD weren't famous for it either but it's
| becoming a much larger trend and the last release from
| Rockstar for GTA that I remember was widely considered
| rushed.
| MichaelCollins wrote:
| As I recall, Projekt CD had a few sleeper/cult hits, all of
| which were very buggy, and then a single run-away success.
| After that single mainstream hit, they promised the Moon
| for their next release and got bit by the overhype they
| created.
|
| Rockstar on the other hand has been making consistent hits
| again and again for years, without overextending
| themselves.
| capableweb wrote:
| Projekt CD always had buggy releases, remember how The
| Witcher 3 was at release?
|
| In comparison, last big release Rockstar had was Red Dead
| Redemption 2, and I don't think anyone would call that game
| rushed in any way, it was very polished at launch.
| that_guy_iain wrote:
| Last release they did was re-releasing the GTA games
| which was not polished at all. And they were just re-
| releasing.
| capableweb wrote:
| I wouldn't call that "a big release" and also, Rockstar
| was not the developer of that re-release AFAIK, merely
| the publisher.
| chippiewill wrote:
| Even in an optimistic scenario GTA VI is two years from
| release. Rockstar won't feel at all pressured to rush something
| out.
| that_guy_iain wrote:
| It's very possible they look to release late next year.
| classified wrote:
| I wish they made a Mac release again, like in the old days.
| xbiitx wrote:
| cam my m1 macbook air handle gta5
| raihansaputra wrote:
| I'm really hoping Mac gaming will get better in the next few
| years. The graphic horsepower is already available, now the
| limits are for games to be released for Mac and ideally
| compiled for ARM and implement the Metal graphics API.
| Unfortunately for now Fortnite is not releasing any new version
| due to their feud with Apple and CS:GO is still running through
| Rosetta 2. DotA 2/LoL is already running great AFAIK.
| yolo3000 wrote:
| Dota 2 running great? Far from it. Maybe it's running ok on
| the M1s or newer. I play on my macbook but with most graphics
| set to minimal despite having a dedicated gpu.
| unpopularopp wrote:
| WoW also has Apple Silicon support from day 1
| ricardobeat wrote:
| As a long time Mac user my advice is to stop hoping. It's
| been a decade of promises, and while you can get pretty
| decent games from the App Store right now, they are not
| interested in catching up to PC or console any time soon.
| sofixa wrote:
| The Mac gaming market is miniscule, and requires special
| special care (different arch _and_ APIs) . It 's highly
| unlikely many game developers will choose to spend that time
| and money.
| FractalHQ wrote:
| Bootcamp windows installations on MacBooks run windows (and
| games) better than any PC I've owned.
| raydiatian wrote:
| Theory: GTA will become the actual metaverse.
| mhh__ wrote:
| Fortnite basically already is _a_ metaverse (i.e. kids meet at
| the weekend in Fortnite)
| spaceman_2020 wrote:
| To be fair, HN, too is a metaverse of its own
|
| My real name is not really Spaceman, and I don't really talk
| like this in the real world all the time.
|
| Every social profile exists in its own little meta space
| where you might not exactly be who you are irl.
| cm2187 wrote:
| The metaverse will be the graphics of gta combined with the
| civility of twitter
| raydiatian wrote:
| As long as it has single player mode
| ok_dad wrote:
| Even GTA online has single player mode now!
| ok_dad wrote:
| The civility of Twitter would be an improvement to the
| civility in GTA online, bud.
| kybernetyk wrote:
| I'll only play it when you can enter any building. This was a
| bummer in GTA V online mode. Only a few buildings were open.
| neilv wrote:
| I'm guessing it might just be current GTA look&feel, not, say,
| some dramatic jump in realism or mechanics.
|
| I hope GTA Online grows (e.g., the world grows, to include
| Liberty City), with characters and their stuff carrying over.
| koheripbal wrote:
| Stories. It needs good stories.
| Stevvo wrote:
| I feel real bad for Rockstar. So many people have put so much
| work into this for so many years only for it to leak out in this
| form is a real shame.
|
| I guess their only recourse is to get a trailer out asap to show
| the game how it was intended to be seen.
|
| Leaker claims to be the same guy that hacked Uber.
| usrusr wrote:
| Gives them free attention of a kind they could never buy no
| matter how many millions they'd throw at it. Perfectly
| complements the kind of attention they _can_ buy. Difficult to
| imagine a company suffering less from a security breach.
| ErneX wrote:
| I don't think that's entirely true.
|
| This will disrupt development for some time, they need to
| figure out what has leaked (seems the hacker also took code
| from GTA V and VI), what changes they need to make to their
| systems to prevent this again.
|
| This will probably delay the release date of the game.
|
| edit: fixed typo.
| MichaelCollins wrote:
| Why should game programmers need to pause their development
| for the security investigation to proceed? It's not as
| though Rockstar's game programmers are also the private
| investigators; the people who investigate the leak won't be
| the programmers and artists who are making the game. I'm
| sure they'll get interviewed during the investigation, but
| that's no more than a few hours of their time wasted.
| ErneX wrote:
| If this guy really has the source code of both 5 & 6 this
| obviously will add more development time. This one of the
| biggest games specially due to its online functionality,
| if bad actors have code related to that it's no bueno.
| rwmj wrote:
| It doesn't detract from the value of the final game, and may
| even be a bit of unintentional viral marketing (I had no idea a
| new game was in development). Could be good for Rockstar?
| Sakos wrote:
| I don't see how it's a shame. How does it ruin anything at all?
| I think it's extremely weird how we're so deferential to the PR
| departments of these billion dollar companies. It's not like
| the video puts it in a bad light either. It's just footage of
| development, which is the type of stuff that never gets out
| after a game is released and is important for historical
| preservation. Honestly, I'm tired of companies being so tight-
| lipped about game development in general, so seeing something
| like this is awesome.
| oxff wrote:
| My thoughts too.
| ErneX wrote:
| Read this thread:
|
| https://twitter.com/charalanahzard/status/157141520154692403.
| ..
| m1gu3l wrote:
| ErneX wrote:
| Feel free to disagree but imo she's right.
|
| GTA makes billions yes, but it's people working on those
| games, they want their work to be seen the best way
| possible not because someone got into their systems and
| decided to leak it. Specially with games like this with
| years of development.
| MichaelCollins wrote:
| I don't think she's right; she says leaks are awful for
| excited fans but I'm an excited fan and it's not awful
| for me. She's speaking in sweeping generalities, speaking
| for people who aren't her. This video didn't give me any
| expectations for GTA VI that weren't already obvious;
| e.g. it will be a 3rd person game where I can commit
| crimes.
| permo-w wrote:
| do you genuinely think that coders for gta VI are going
| to care that their work got seen before it was finished?
| how vain do you think these people are?
| ErneX wrote:
| Of course they care, this is bad for the devs and the
| company:
|
| https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1571489679534608
| 384
| DonHopkins wrote:
| A leak?!? Oh my! Butler, fetch me my fainting couch post
| haste -- I do think I am becoming overwhelmed with a case
| of the vapours!
|
| The original Star Wars wouldn't be Star Wars without all
| the behind-the-scenes photos and film they "leaked". As I a
| kid, and still now, I cherish that stuff, and it makes the
| franchise so much more valuable.
|
| https://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/star-wars-
| behin...
| KVFinn wrote:
| Might take a few months of dev time just dealing with the
| legal and security issues from the source code getting
| hacked, games use a ton of middleware from many different
| companies.
|
| >The guy with the data/source code for that game is just on
| forums taking requests like a reddit AMA, searching the
| source code then pulling up what people ask for. One guy just
| asked him to send him some code related to an ongoing court
| case vs TTI, and he just did it.
|
| >Turns out the guy asking him to scour the source code is one
| of the GTA5 cheat makers R*/TTI is suing lmao.
|
| https://twitter.com/APZonerunner/status/1571411248390242307
|
| >I don't see how it's a shame. How does it ruin anything at
| all?
| cm2187 wrote:
| Also the main commercial reason to keep secrecy is to not
| cannibalise your existing products by creating an expectation
| that if the customer holds on a little more on a purchase...,
| but gta5 is almost 10 years old now.
|
| As for the environment, the videos I looked at don't reveal
| much anyway.
| ErneX wrote:
| Bungie had some of their staff doxxed and threatened, so I
| kind of understand why they just decide to not share stuff
| ahead of time:
|
| https://www.polygon.com/23282211/bungie-
| destiny-2-communicat...
| password1 wrote:
| People on twitter are already sharing Linkedin profiles of
| employees connected to the recorded videos, asking for more
| or acting like they found the leaker. Which is absolutely
| idiotic since the video were stolen from Slack and the
| people who recorded them have nothing to do with the leak.
| mhh__ wrote:
| They'll make billions regardless of the games quality on launch
| flohofwoe wrote:
| Why? This is what all work-in-progress game development looks
| like, there's absolutely nothing to be ashamed of.
|
| IMHO there should be much more WIP material like this in the
| public, published by the game developers themselves. Too many
| people think that games just spring into existance, without a
| clear idea how game development actually works.
| troad wrote:
| In my (gamedev) experience, a huge part of the appeal of
| games is the illusion there's more than meets the eye. Most
| gamers want to suspend their disbelief and let their
| imagination run rampant; they can react very poorly to seeing
| behind the curtain.
| Sakos wrote:
| This is an issue that the industry itself has caused. It's
| a self-inflicted wound. Companies never show footage like
| this, so gamers don't know what games look like during
| development. Then they get disappointed by footage like
| this or early looks that don't look absolutely mindblowing.
| If companies were more open about development, this
| wouldn't be a problem.
|
| > a huge part of the appeal of games is the illusion
| there's more than meets the eye. Most gamers want to
| suspend their disbelief and let their imagination run
| rampant
|
| This is complete nonsense.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| honkdaddy wrote:
| I felt a similar way after playing and tweaking lots of
| Mario 64 and OoT mods. Obviously I still love the games
| with all my heart, but getting to play it at so many
| different levels of polish and playability definitely
| allows the 'Wow - Perfection' feeling to fade a bit. I
| think playing an alpha version or poorly modded copy of a
| game like Amnesia: Dark Descent would totally kill the
| atmospheric creepiness which made the game so well
| received.
|
| I guess it's a bit like watching the BTS of something like
| the LotR trilogy. When you get to see all the orcs in full
| makeup just goofing around with the rest of the film crew,
| it means when you see them later in the real movie, you
| can't help but be reminded they're just people in great
| makeup. Keeping up that illusion in game dev must be
| enormously important.
| raydev wrote:
| I don't think this is how people view games anymore. Look
| how at phrases like "t-pose" and "hitbox" and "clipping
| through" are used among regular (non-nerd) kids/teens.
| There are certain things about games that everyone
| understands now.
| weberer wrote:
| This is why I loved the Factorio blog. From 2013 until
| release in 2020 they would write a weekly blog about what was
| happening and all the interesting problems they ran into. Its
| really fascinating.
|
| https://factorio.com/blog/
| Stevvo wrote:
| I agree with you, but leaks are not fun. It's theft of
| creative endeavor.
| detaro wrote:
| I don't blame major developers for not showing anything. If
| it looks unfinished (because it is), you get derision because
| the game "looks shit" and is "bad". If you show anything cool
| that you need to later scale back or cut you get dragged on
| release for "false promises". A place like Rockstar who a)
| has a giant audience, which exaggerates those effects and b)
| doesn't need the advertising bonus has good arguments for
| waiting until everything is mostly in place for release.
|
| (Whereas small/solo indie devs often show in-development
| work, because having _anything_ seen that might interest
| future players is much more important to them)
|
| EDIT: case in point, even here we already have comments
| wondering what mistakes Rockstar made because this random
| development footage, likely years before release, doesn't
| look that much better than GTA V.
| WastingMyTime89 wrote:
| There is little WIP material released for blockbuster games
| like GTA because it's useless for the studio. Rockstar
| doesn't need to generate hype for the brand long before the
| game is ready to sell. They prefer a very large marketing
| push at release.
|
| I can safely predict that this leak will have approximately
| zero impact on the actual sales of GTA VI however.
| pennaMan wrote:
| Why do you feel bad? How is a bit of footage of the game in
| development affect anything about the game at all? Does the
| success of the game depend on the public being ignorant about
| the fact that a game needs to be developed before it's
| launched? I'm really confused.
| staticassertion wrote:
| Presumably they could have done more to not get hacked.
| Aardwolf wrote:
| This leak only makes me more stoked for the game, so I hope
| this doesn't cause any detrimental effect on development. If
| anything, it shows how hard the development is and what kind of
| details are being tested.
| ErneX wrote:
| Agreed, games should be seen at the state and shape their
| creators want, not with leaks.
| Bancakes wrote:
| In an age of early access and pre-alphas, Rockstar could sell
| this as-is for $20. No shame here.
| raydev wrote:
| I don't know how normal I am but this makes me _excited_. It
| shows me they weren 't just leaning on remastering GTA5 yet
| again for the upcoming PS6 and Xbox Series One X. I hear new
| dialogue. I see new mechanics. GTA5 came out in 2013 and
| they've barely shipped updates to it and left bugs for years.
|
| This gives me hope.
| philjohn wrote:
| Something similar happened with Half Life 2 - and it went on to
| be a smash hit.
|
| Yes, it's not nice to have your work revealed before its ready,
| but locking down and just keeping the pace of development up
| would be the more judicious use of time.
| Someone1234 wrote:
| I'd agree, and also point out that Half Life 2 was far more
| damaging. This is a bunch of tech development demos and
| trials, there's little to no story spoilers. Whereas HL2's
| leak contained levels and story elements that appeared in the
| final game. It was unfinished/alpha, but really showed what
| HL2 would eventually be, whereas this just shows some of the
| technology that GTA VI may contain.
|
| I don't even read too much into the diner scenario, since
| that's a great test-bed for interactive NPC behavior, object
| interactions, and general scenario creation tooling. It MIGHT
| be in the final game, but it may also not be, and it wouldn't
| be impactful either way.
| redanddead wrote:
| The dev tools look really bad ass. It's inspiring, it shows the
| other Devs how the real pros do it.
|
| What's the argument against them building in public like the
| rest of us?
| rvz wrote:
| > What's the argument against them building in public like
| the rest of us?
|
| Not sure if you are aware of the protection of trade secrets
| and intellectual property for games and proprietary game
| engines that if leaked would be useful to hackers, cheaters
| and aim botters?
| capableweb wrote:
| > What's the argument against them building in public like
| the rest of us?
|
| Who are these "the rest of us". Most game development happens
| behind closed door, the gameplay only to be seen as the game
| is ready to be released. In fact, most software in general is
| developed like this. Open/public development is not at all
| the norm for development.
| detaro wrote:
| What "rest of us" is showing off their internal tooling in
| public? (sure, there are companies that do, but this is not
| some universal thing that's unusual not to do)
| Stevvo wrote:
| It's just ImGui and line traces. i.e. What everyone does
| because it's quick and easy to build.
| agumonkey wrote:
| nothing special there, i remember similar thing in mgs3
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| I can't wait for the Galaxy Note 7 mod on GTA6...
|
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_GhODn4FRoE
| beej71 wrote:
| Though I haven't been in the industry for 15+ years, I think this
| video gives you an excellent idea of the day-to-day life of a
| game developer.
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