[HN Gopher] Being a victim of rape costs an average of $3,500 in...
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       Being a victim of rape costs an average of $3,500 in medical bills
        
       Author : DocFeind
       Score  : 76 points
       Date   : 2022-09-17 17:37 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
        
       | aaron695 wrote:
        
       | alar44 wrote:
        
       | yieldcrv wrote:
       | > The bills can discourage rape reporting and compound victims'
       | trauma.
       | 
       | Are there any studies on how this knowledge emboldens sexual
       | assault and rapists?
        
         | belorn wrote:
         | There are studies on crime reduction. One such finding that I
         | remember is that harsher punishment tend to impact crimes which
         | are premeditated, but not those occurring in the heat of the
         | moment.
        
         | smt88 wrote:
         | I don't know about this specific crime, but a lot of crimes are
         | correlated with arrest rate.
         | 
         | For example, there were places with a lot of illegal street
         | racing that were able to drastically reduce the problem with
         | slightly higher arrest rates.
         | 
         | Somehow the criminals have a mental calculus of their
         | likelihood of facing charges (maybe just based on anecdata from
         | media reports -- who knows!) and they behave accordingly.
        
           | jgtrosh wrote:
           | By far, the most effective deterrent is indeed "certainty of
           | being caught" (far more than whatever punishment happens
           | afterwards) https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/five-things-
           | about-deterr...
        
           | ouid wrote:
           | The phenomenon is better explained by: much higher arrest
           | rates -> fewer people doing it -> fewer people to arrest ->
           | lower arrest rates.
        
           | drc500free wrote:
           | What's interesting is that severity of punishment has very
           | little effect, while certainty of punishment has a large
           | effect.
        
       | olliej wrote:
       | And then you have the costs incurred by forced pregnancy and
       | forced child birth and forced child rearing. None of which are
       | covered by the states forcing it.
        
       | pizza234 wrote:
       | The title is clickbait; the bill total is not what is generally
       | paid by the patients (whether nothing be paid at all in such
       | cases, is a separate topic):
       | 
       | > On average, hospital emergency departments charged $3,551 for
       | urgent medical care coded as caused by sexual violence. People
       | who were sexually assaulted while pregnant faced even steeper
       | bills, with an average of $4,553. Uninsured victims or those who
       | chose to pay themselves were served bills that averaged $3,673.
       | 
       | > the study found that insured victims paid an average of 14
       | percent of their bills out-of-pocket, which for the average bill
       | would work out to nearly $500.
       | 
       | > [...] Among the 112,844 records, an estimated 17,842 victims
       | were expected to pay their hospital bills themselves.
        
         | verall wrote:
         | Your own quotes suggest around 15% of victims are expected to
         | pay the value quotes in the headline on average.
         | 
         | I wouldn't call that clickbait...
        
           | peyton wrote:
           | "served bills" is not the same thing as "costs" when it comes
           | to processing uninsured claims. The headline is clickbait.
        
       | Rebelgecko wrote:
       | Nearly every state has funds that cover medical bills for crime
       | victims, are those an option? Or is the bureaucracy too
       | convoluted?
        
       | greatgib wrote:
       | The worse is that even if you had to pay for it by yourself. The
       | price is clearly conflated compared to the service provided.
        
       | rdtwo wrote:
       | Get raped, pay a 3000$ "convenience fee" . Then the police will
       | either never process the kit or process it and put you in a dna
       | database to be used against you. It a truly dystopian system
        
         | undersuit wrote:
         | Might I suggest you kill the stronger person forcing you to be
         | raped in their sleep to escape and then having to pay $150000
         | to their estate.
         | 
         | https://www.cbs58.com/news/iowa-teen-ordered-to-pay-her-alle...
        
           | bryan0 wrote:
           | This is a reference to:
           | https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/09/14/us/iowa-teen-
           | restitution-...
        
             | lostlogin wrote:
             | Thanks - grim.
             | 
             | A CNN link that's less ampy:
             | 
             | https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/15/us/pieper-lewis-sex-
             | traff...
        
       | mattwilsonn888 wrote:
       | Any medical treatment has a cost, regardless of who pays it.
       | 
       | The article says that out of the people studied, 36% paid for it
       | themselves.
        
       | account-5 wrote:
       | Everytime I read something like this I am greatful I live in the
       | UK. In trouble as the NHS is due to Tory mismanagement (the
       | cynical would say purposefully), it is better in everyway than
       | the US health care model.
        
         | hourago wrote:
         | > the cynical would say purposefully
         | 
         | Underfund public services, complain that they are bad and move
         | them to more expensive private companies is a well known tactic
         | to increase private profits a the cost of citizens well-being.
         | It is tried over Europe by parties in more or less the same
         | form.
         | 
         | There are many studies that demonstrated how, for example,
         | health care is way more expensive in private hands. If that is
         | incompetence or malice I will go for the quote "It is difficult
         | to get a man to understand something when his salary depends
         | upon his not understanding it."
         | 
         | It is extremely damning that someone that suffers a traumatic
         | experience like is rape is thrown into a for-profit system
         | which goal is maximizing profit.
        
           | account-5 wrote:
           | It's barbaric and completely unacceptable in my view.
           | Shameful.
        
         | rrdharan wrote:
         | I don't this particular topic is the one on which to make that
         | point:
         | 
         | https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-violence-against-wo...
         | 
         | https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/18/world/europe/britain-rape...
        
         | Rygian wrote:
         | Same goes for France and Spain, as far as I can tell.
        
           | lawn wrote:
           | And the Nordic countries and probably many more European
           | countries.
        
             | hourago wrote:
             | But there are always pressure to reduce public "costs" to
             | reduce taxes. That European health care is better for the
             | average person is not a given, it is something that
             | Europeans need to keep pressuring to not lose.
             | 
             | I have seen degrading healthcare in Spain, for example, as
             | banks received millions of Euros during the housing crisis
             | money for hospitals shrunk. But when things got better it
             | takes a lot of fighting to just get some money back into
             | public services.
             | 
             | Part of what makes Europe such an amazing place to live is
             | good public health care. It improves all well being
             | metrics.
        
               | unity1001 wrote:
               | Nothing you couldn't fix:
               | 
               | Every time the private interests increase their pressure
               | to privatize things, vote for a more left-wing party in
               | proportion to the pressure that the private lobbies are
               | putting on the government. If they go full postal Ayn
               | Rand, you go full communist in voting.
               | 
               | As historically verified by the experience of many
               | countries, nothing less than this fixes that problem. If
               | they pull the rope one inch, you pull it two inches.
        
               | dijit wrote:
               | > But there are always pressure to reduce public "costs"
               | to reduce taxes.
               | 
               | You are right for some definition of this; but in Sweden
               | people are very happy to pay tax even if it's a lot,
               | because they see themselves as getting a lot back for it.
               | 
               | That's not true when everything is mismanaged and
               | underfunded though; which is the current case. Healthcare
               | is in the grips of private hands for other reasons in
               | Sweden, and that's that the healthcare system doesn't pay
               | well for directly employed doctors- this leads to
               | everyone working for the private health services and
               | since there is a dearth of doctors working for the
               | government: they must hire these companies.
        
           | satysin wrote:
           | As someone that has lived in both the UK and France, I have
           | to say the French medical service is several levels above the
           | UK NHS.
           | 
           | Even during the pandemic I had excellent care. Compared to a
           | friend of mine that had gallstones and was in terrible pain
           | and was told the wait would be _a year_. He ended up paying
           | to go private as he was in such pain. Had his gall bladder
           | removed.
           | 
           | I had a few health issues myself over the past two years. I
           | never had an issue getting a same day doctors appointment,
           | never had to wait more than 5 days for a scan (MRIs) and no
           | more than two weeks for a procedure (gastroscopy under GA).
           | 
           | Really opened my eyes to how bad things are with the NHS
           | right now :(
           | 
           | Of course the French system is not perfect, claiming so would
           | be stupid. But when _all_ of my friends and family back in
           | the UK complain about getting GP appointments or month long
           | waits for scans I can 't help but think they're doing
           | something very wrong when France has a similar population
           | size, GDP, etc. and my experience has never been anywhere
           | near as difficult or slow as in the UK.
           | 
           | Even before the pandemic getting an appointment with my
           | doctor in the UK was a pain. So much so I had sort of
           | conditioned myself into avoiding do so unless it was
           | something important so I avoided it the same in France when I
           | first moved here. But seeing how functional the system is it
           | really changed my attitude towards visiting my doctor. I am
           | far more proactive now getting anything that hangs around
           | more than a week checked out without question.
        
         | unity1001 wrote:
         | > NHS is due to Tory mismanagement (the cynical would say
         | purposefully)
         | 
         | They aren't mismanaging it. They are 'strangling it' in order
         | to be able to 'save it' later. If you did not hear that phrase
         | before, its privatization. That's how it is done anywhere. If
         | you people don't stop it, you will end up seeing the entirety
         | of it being sold.
        
         | slantedview wrote:
         | > In trouble as the NHS is due to Tory mismanagement (the
         | cynical would say purposefully
         | 
         | It's not cynical, it's just good business. If you're a private
         | corporation wanting to get into some market, you're going for
         | pressure politicians to kill off the government competitor so
         | you can take over. This is how it works in countries all over
         | the world, under pressure to privatize government services.
         | Many governments, such as the US, fail at withstanding that
         | pressure. And so we have awful stories like this.
        
       | pessimizer wrote:
       | To be expected in the US. Try having a child.
        
         | nine_zeros wrote:
         | > To be expected in the US. Try having a child.
         | 
         | I tried. It's truly stunning how having a child could bankrupt
         | you if you don't have a "decent" insurance.
        
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       (page generated 2022-09-17 23:02 UTC)