[HN Gopher] The enduring mystery of 'Jawn,' Philadelphia's all-p...
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       The enduring mystery of 'Jawn,' Philadelphia's all-purpose noun
       (2016)
        
       Author : tomcam
       Score  : 58 points
       Date   : 2022-09-16 19:25 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.atlasobscura.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.atlasobscura.com)
        
       | jawns wrote:
       | I've been using variations of "jawn" or "jawns" as my username
       | for 20+ years.
       | 
       | It's a word that has endured surprisingly well, as slang goes.
       | And it's a conspicuously egalitarian term. You'll find it used in
       | both blue-collar and white-collar settings, and across racial
       | lines. There's very little tribal attachment. Nobody cares if you
       | appropriate it. The general sentiment is the more jawn users, the
       | better.
       | 
       | But unfortunately, I'm afraid it may have jumped the shark when
       | the "Jawn Morgan" billboards started appearing:
       | 
       | https://billypenn.com/2022/05/25/jawn-morgan-billboards-phil...
        
         | Stupulous wrote:
         | > across racial lines... Nobody cares if you appropriate it.
         | 
         | It seems like the first tweet from your linked article is
         | suggesting otherwise.
        
         | spyspy wrote:
         | ard
        
         | phlalexsh wrote:
         | ehhhh I disagree. I definitely cringe when I hear a hipster
         | who's lived here for 2 years try to inject jawn into every
         | conversation. Feels very forced. Also Jawn being put on pins
         | and shirts is also very cringe to me
        
           | gerdesj wrote:
           | "I definitely cringe" and "Also ... is also ... very cringe
           | to me"
           | 
           | You certainly get plenty of mileage out of the word cringe.
           | Is it a verb, is it an adjective - who knows? Your also ...
           | also construct riffs on "either ... or", "both ... and" and
           | the like. There must be a name for terms like that - you get
           | them in Latin too so they've been around for a while eg nec
           | ... necque (neither ... nor).
           | 
           | Jawn is just a colloquialism but I've seen also ... also
           | several times before now. I've also seen very cringe too.
           | 
           | I am not taking the piss but I feel that I am watching
           | language evolve right in front of me. I suspect that whilst
           | this article and set of threads gets itself all whizzed up
           | over jawn, it is missing the rather bigger point about
           | language and conversations that travel at the speed of light
           | instead of just sound and is distributed by the internet and
           | not just the post office.
           | 
           | On HN we pontificators have an audience that a Roman
           | Imperator could only dream of.
        
           | lc9er wrote:
           | Yeah. I feel like there's two types of people that actually
           | use jawn: those that are very Philly and those that are
           | trying, really, really hard to sound Philly. I can't say I've
           | said jawn with a straight face since I was a little kid.
        
       | maxpowersage wrote:
       | Wentz and Foles at Minnesota. Tom Brady rests.
        
         | tillinghast wrote:
         | Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra. Shaka, when the walls fell.
        
       | sosborn wrote:
       | Hawaii equivalent is "da kine"
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _The Enduring Mystery of 'Jawn,' Philadelphia's All-Purpose Noun
       | (2016)_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20574296 - July
       | 2019 (108 comments)
       | 
       |  _The Enduring Mystery of 'Jawn', Philadelphia's All-Purpose
       | Noun_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11367406 - March
       | 2016 (52 comments)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | maxcan wrote:
       | Philadelphia born and raised and for my life I couldn't define
       | what 'jawn' means.
        
         | jonnycat wrote:
         | Same here, I only learned about it as an adult.
        
         | SpikeDad wrote:
         | Same although haven't been there for many years and still I
         | never heard lawn once from my parents, my relatives or myself.
         | Is there a more localized area of Philly that uses it - my
         | family covers south and west Philly.
        
       | shashanoid wrote:
       | Ayo i'm from philly this made me chuckle
        
       | tzs wrote:
       | I wonder if this gave South Park the idea for "marklar" [1]?
       | 
       | [1] https://southpark.cc.com/clips/151539/welcome-to-marklar
        
       | thebiglebrewski wrote:
       | I'm upvoting this jawn!
        
       | tomrod wrote:
       | > According to experts, it's unlike any word, in any language.
       | 
       | I introduce you to "kwan" (or "kuan") from Visayan, which serves
       | the same purpose.
       | 
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/DoesNotTranslate/comments/jmkvbd/fi...
       | 
       | Kwan is not just a time-filler word like "um." You can legit use
       | it in a sentence as an object-filler word and people still
       | understand.
       | 
       | "I was surfing at the kwan and ate some kwan with hot sauce."
       | "Was it good?" "Oh yeah!"
        
         | orange_joe wrote:
         | I don't believe that it's unique "thing" is pretty widely used
         | in a similar way.
        
           | tengwar2 wrote:
           | Thingy, whatsit, whatchermacallit - there are loads of these
           | words. "Jawn" may have slight differences in the way that it
           | is used when compared with "whatsit", but it doesn't seem
           | very different. "Dongle" used to be used this way (by the
           | person who invented the copy-protection dongle, who then
           | repurposed the word). And then there'a the old faithful Latin
           | "re".
        
           | istjohn wrote:
           | "Thing" isn't used for people or places though.
        
         | linschn wrote:
         | Same as "smurf", then?
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Smurfs
        
           | jonhohle wrote:
           | But "smurf" also has adjective, adverb, and verb forms in
           | addition to being a noun.
        
           | rufus_foreman wrote:
           | Smurf yeah!
        
           | tomrod wrote:
           | Yes! Very similar to my recollection (it was my not my first
           | language, but lived there awhile).
        
         | choudharism wrote:
         | Como "weon" en Chile // Like "weon" in Chile
         | 
         | https://spanish.stackexchange.com/a/4839
         | 
         | The "w" sound keeps repeating in the themes here, interesting.
        
         | anon_123g987 wrote:
         | In Hungarian it's "ize".
         | 
         | https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/iz%C3%A9
        
         | xg15 wrote:
         | Germans are probably unimaginative here, but "dings" would
         | definitely qualify.
        
         | lifthrasiir wrote:
         | In Korean _geosigi_ (geosigi) fills this role, which can be
         | used as any part of speech.
        
           | yongjik wrote:
           | ...and is also used, unsurprisingly, as a euphemism for
           | penis.
        
             | tomcam wrote:
             | Is it usable in polite company?
        
               | lifthrasiir wrote:
               | Yes, the word came to be used as an euphemism because of
               | its genericity, not the other way around. If the context
               | doesn't suggest otherwise it is not considered impolite.
        
               | tomcam wrote:
               | Quite interesting to me, thanks.
        
         | eunoia wrote:
         | Sounds very similar to usage of "da kine" in Hawaiian Creole
         | English (i.e Hawaiian pidgin).
        
           | tomcam wrote:
           | That struck me immediately too.
        
         | andrewnc wrote:
         | My favorite part here is that it's a noun and a verb
         | 
         | "i-kwan mo yung kwan" -> "just thing the thing"
        
         | tomcam wrote:
         | From your reference it can also be used as a verb, which is
         | dope.
         | 
         | I kind of think that there must be a vast amount of Filipino
         | culture I don't know about. Big population, but little
         | penetration of the culture in mainland USA.
        
           | tomrod wrote:
           | Filipino culture rocks. The food, the festivities, the
           | languages, the zest for life.
           | 
           | Absolutely loved getting the chance to participate in it here
           | and there. I miss speaking to native speakers.
           | 
           | The distinction of verbs and nouns in Austronesian languages
           | generally are pretty lax.
           | 
           | Also cool, Tongan and Samoan speakers found Visayan numbering
           | mutually distinguishable -- "lima" for 5, for example.
        
             | anon_123g987 wrote:
             | English has "verbing", too.
             | 
             | > _" [E]asy conversion of nouns to verbs has been part of
             | English grammar for centuries; it is one of the processes
             | that make English English."_
             | 
             | https://www.thoughtco.com/verbing-definition-1692587
             | 
             | Just like "jawn" is not unique (not even within English),
             | in my experience there's almost nothing really unique in
             | any language.
        
               | tomcam wrote:
               | Verbing isn't unique, but I do like to explore
               | etymological quirks.
        
       | Gordonjcp wrote:
       | Sounds a bit like "yoke" in Irish English.
        
       | dec0dedab0de wrote:
       | I grew up 10 minutes from Philadelphia, and I distinctively
       | remember kids I know starting to say jawn in the mid 90s. I was
       | like wait are you saying joint, as in a spike lee joint? and they
       | were like no it's jawn. Around the same time everyone changed the
       | emphasized word in the phrase "yeah it is" when in agreement.
       | More recently it reminds me how people switched to "all the
       | sudden" all of a sudden.
        
         | xg15 wrote:
         | > _More recently it reminds me how people switched to "all the
         | sudden" all of a sudden._
         | 
         | ...and as a non-native english speaker, I just learned that
         | "all of a sudden" is slang and not just a normal part of the
         | language.
         | 
         | Wow!
        
           | kencausey wrote:
           | I may be wrong but I think rather than 'slang' the correct
           | word would be 'idiom'. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/idiom
        
           | gerdesj wrote:
           | "all of a sudden" is probably ubiquitous in english and so
           | whilst it is an idiom, it is a standard idiom!
        
         | googlryas wrote:
         | I was raised in south jersey, about 30m from Philly, and I
         | remember exactly when jawn hit our little town, right around
         | Y2K. I was in 9th grade at the time, and I remember it being
         | like an arms race where people were throwing jawns out at every
         | little thing, regardless of necessity. I also remember it
         | pissed off a couple of the "cool kids" who were actively trying
         | to coin "gwat" with the other students. It had some legs at
         | first, but jawn came along and everyone forgot gwat.
        
           | ry4nolson wrote:
           | that's so fetch!
        
           | jakzurr wrote:
           | OMG that's funny! Thanks for sharing.
        
           | merolish wrote:
           | Huh, I grew up in Cherry Hill and graduated HS in 2000, guess
           | we missed it because I didn't learn about the term until
           | years later.
        
         | gxqoz wrote:
         | Yeah I feel everyone around me who used this word added a bit
         | of a "t" sound to the end. It wasn't until I was an adult I saw
         | it spelled out like "jawn".
        
           | xg15 wrote:
           | Maybe the opposite of jawn is jawn't?
        
       | x-shadowban wrote:
       | ...and then there was a perf regression cause the jawns were
       | being autoboxed to Jawns...
        
       | redweer wrote:
       | there's a skateboard mag out of Philly called Skate Jawn
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skate_Jawn
        
         | tomcam wrote:
         | Wholly appropriate
        
       | foolfoolz wrote:
       | shit is a synonym for jawn
        
         | Larrikin wrote:
         | Shit is almost never a synonym for a woman
        
         | alistairSH wrote:
         | Pretty much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igh9iO5BxBo
        
         | lelandfe wrote:
         | For some reason, "shit" reads as a plural noun to me while
         | "jawn" reads singular. I've never really thought about it, hah.
         | 
         | E.g. "can you grab the shit from my truck" vs "can you grab the
         | jawn"
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | Hmm. Would you say "shit" is countably or uncountably plural?
        
             | a_mechanic wrote:
             | Uncountable, e.g. "look at all this shit in my truck". I
             | cannot count all the shit. For countable plural I will use
             | the form "shits", e.g. "these two shits left their bikes on
             | my lawn".
        
           | pc86 wrote:
           | I would've expected "that jawn" but couldn't for the life of
           | me tell you why.
        
             | robocat wrote:
             | The words "this", "that", "the" imply a position of an
             | object (or noun) relative to the speaker - they are called
             | demonstrative pronouns.
             | 
             | You really need to know the difference if trying to speak
             | Spanish: https://www.spanish.academy/blog/a-simple-guide-
             | to-demonstra...
        
         | verrp wrote:
         | "I don't know shit about fuck."
        
         | CollinEMac wrote:
         | I was thinking the same thing. Seems to function pretty much
         | the same way.
        
       | smm11 wrote:
       | Ope.
        
       | a1ku wrote:
       | There's a similar word in southern Italy, "cazzafa" or
       | "fattappost", which can mean basically anything you don't know or
       | remember the exact word for.
        
       | hubrix wrote:
       | I think whatever "linguists" did this "research" must be
       | undergraduate internet searchers. For example in Russian the
       | words "fignya/fignyushka" or the less polite "huynya/huynyushka"
       | are used in a very similar way. They are a noun representing an
       | abstract "thing" that the listener would understand from context.
        
       | bwestergard wrote:
       | In D.C. and Baltimore it's more like "jont".
        
       | jasonlotito wrote:
       | All my jawn using friends here are going to love this.
       | 
       | I live outside Philly, and yes, they use jawn.
        
       | tomcam wrote:
       | The Philly accent is maybe my least favorite in the USA, but jawn
       | definitely needs wider circulation.
        
         | phlalexsh wrote:
         | Bad take on all sides
        
       | spyspy wrote:
       | Wait til people find out about ard
        
       | Larrikin wrote:
       | As a transplant to Philly for college from VA, Philadelphia
       | definitely sits in a weird area when it comes to their cultural
       | contributions. New York does their best to make sure people from
       | Philly know they aren't allowed to be culturally relevant like
       | they do with New Jersey so there's a little bit of mixing of
       | culture from Philly to NJ. It has Baltimore to bully in a similar
       | way as NYC does but evidence of the culture is obvious. Jersey
       | club as a music genre is wholly from Baltimore but obviously
       | influenced from Philadelphia.
       | 
       | But its influence seems to be completely stopped at DC, where
       | people from Philly "who made it" but not in NYC try to show they
       | aren't from Philly.
       | 
       | I lived there through college, and never felt any influence to
       | pick up the slang since it seemed to just exist in a bubble that
       | was ridiculed from all sides. I would say I wanted a hoagie at
       | the store, because they would pretend they didn't know what a sub
       | was, but thats about it.
       | 
       | But jawn seems like the most boring word that online articles
       | like to talk about. Its obviously prevalent but its also not
       | unknown and actually fairly common. When I was in Philly earlier
       | this year a lawyer's ad on the radio used it prevalently to try
       | and show some kind of connection to the city. Its kind of unique
       | but uninteresting, similar to a broccoli rabe sandwich bloggers
       | rave about since the best cheesesteaks in the city have basically
       | been established for decades now.
       | 
       | Now an article explaining 'actin jo (joe??)' I'd love to read
       | about because I've never gotten a straight answer on that, but
       | have seen fights get started because one girl said it to another.
        
       | cammil wrote:
       | Isn't "thing" another word that is like "jawn"?
        
       | novacole wrote:
       | As a Philadelphian, i can sum up the usage of jawn as: a place, a
       | thing or a girl/woman.
       | 
       | For example this is a valid sentence:
       | 
       | "Person 1: I was at the jawn down the street when that bad jawn
       | from up the block walked in. But she didn't say anything.
       | 
       | Person 2: oh that's a bad jawn"
       | 
       | Translation:
       | 
       | "Person 1: I was at the place down the street when that pretty
       | woman from up the block walked in. But she didn't say anything.
       | 
       | Person 2: oh that sucks"
        
         | appleflaxen wrote:
         | Is "whatever" a similar word in any way?
         | 
         | ""Person 1: I was at the whatever down the street when that bad
         | whatever from up the block walked in. But she didn't say
         | anything.
         | 
         | Person 2: oh that's a bad whatever"
         | 
         | ?
        
       | SllX wrote:
       | Apparently Philadelphian culture is more contextual than literal.
       | You just say what's in your jawn and people understand.
        
       | danbolt wrote:
       | Jawn is useful for readability, but also provides an easy
       | performance benefit too. Iterators for `std::unordered_map` will
       | have the proper `const` values and the compiler won't need to do
       | any implicit conversions.
        
         | HideousKojima wrote:
         | Hello GPT3 (or attempt at mocking GPT3 accusations?)
        
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