[HN Gopher] BliKVM PCIe puts a computer in your computer
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       BliKVM PCIe puts a computer in your computer
        
       Author : ingve
       Score  : 79 points
       Date   : 2022-09-15 16:45 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.jeffgeerling.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.jeffgeerling.com)
        
       | LinuxBender wrote:
       | This looks like a nice alternative to the proprietary ilo/drac
       | especially for home or remote site use.
       | 
       | Is this running a bog standard Rasberry Pi OS and an open source
       | firmware? Can the owner run a command to drop to a root shell,
       | configure firewall rules, etc? Asking because Dell made it much
       | harder to get a root shell on the dracs and the enterprise cards
       | have hard coded creds _this is not documented_. Is the KVM
       | interface using HTML5?
        
         | jaywalk wrote:
         | The card itself isn't running anything. You just add a bog-
         | standard rPi CM4 running PiKVM (https://pikvm.org/). You can
         | accomplish the same thing with a regular rPi running PiKVM
         | externally.
        
           | LinuxBender wrote:
           | Perfect, thankyou for the clarification. That makes sense now
           | given its an add-on board. It's been ages since I looked into
           | network KVM. The DIY/consumer options seem to have evolved
           | quite a bit.
        
             | jaywalk wrote:
             | There are some nice options out there. I use a DIY
             | TinyPilot build, and have been pretty happy with it.
        
             | geerlingguy wrote:
             | Yeah, PiKVM is quite nice these days. It also defaults to
             | booting in a minimal readonly filesystem, so running it off
             | a microSD card isn't an issue either.
        
       | pixelmonkey wrote:
       | My "cheap trick" to do this with my own home server is to use a
       | Raspberry Pi which stays always on and is wired into same LAN as
       | my homelab server. Then, I have a small shell script that uses
       | the etherwake Linux CLI tool to send a Wake-on-LAN magic packet
       | to wake my server when it's sleeping. For full server reboots, I
       | have the server on a remote-accessible power switch that can be
       | cycled from the same Raspberry Pi. I network all the devices
       | together using ZeroTier.
       | 
       | I have to admit, though, that the idea of the computer being
       | inside the server box (similar to a Dell iDRAC in a colo
       | environment) is appealing, and also opens up the opportunity for
       | things like "direct KVM" keyboard/display access. That said, for
       | my homelab use cases, the ability to reboot the server,
       | suspend/unsuspend, and bastion SSH through the Raspberry Pi has
       | been good enough.
        
         | gibspaulding wrote:
         | It would be pretty easy to model and 3d print an adapter to fit
         | a Pi into a 3.5HDD bay. You'd have to run the power and
         | Ethernet connection out the back of the PC through a water
         | cooler grommet or PCI slot, but it would give the pi a safe
         | home with good air flow! I considered doing this once for a
         | file server I was hosting on a pi (since it would provide a
         | home for a storage drive as well), but ended up going a
         | different route.
        
           | drewzero1 wrote:
           | Even better in a floppy/media card/5.25 bay so there could be
           | an OLED IP/info readout on the front of the PC. I love this
           | idea, really getting my gears turning.
        
         | toast0 wrote:
         | > . Then, I have a small shell script that uses the etherwake
         | Linux CLI tool to send a Wake-on-LAN magic packet to wake my
         | server when it's sleeping. For full server reboots, I have the
         | server on a remote-accessible power switch that can be cycled
         | from the same Raspberry Pi.
         | 
         | A long time ago, Facebook wired wake-on-lan to do a system
         | reset. (With selected ethernet cards that could customize the
         | wake-on-lan packet). They abandoned that in favor of OpenBMC,
         | but it's an interesting idea for low spec control.
        
       | phendrenad2 wrote:
       | I wonder how many fewer of these they would sell if the PCIe card
       | edge were blank rather than covered in useless pins.
        
         | Melatonic wrote:
         | Doesnt it take power from the slot?
        
         | consp wrote:
         | Wouldn't that potentially put unwanted scrapings (non
         | conductive) on the pcie pins? This looks like the best option
         | to me.
        
           | phendrenad2 wrote:
           | I don't think so - there have been many examples of plastic
           | or FR4 cards which sit in PCI slots.
        
       | zamadatix wrote:
       | I really love PiKVM! I use it for my personal colo'd boxes and
       | it's a real treat over normal remote management solutions.
       | 
       | That said I'm not sure what BliKVM really provides me beyond more
       | limitations on where I can put it and one less PCIe slot
       | available on the motherboard. I was expecting something more
       | smart NIC like where the PCIe bus is actually used to communicate
       | with the host too - or maybe the better description was wishing
       | for :).
        
         | drewzero1 wrote:
         | I agree, I got excited when I saw the PCIe card and less
         | excited when I found out it didn't do anything with the slot.
         | I'd love to see on that used the slot for communication, maybe
         | even video and power.
        
       | formerly_proven wrote:
       | PCIe actually includes stand-by power, so this card using usb-c
       | PD and PoE instead would suggest idle power consumption is
       | significant.
       | 
       | > It uses about 2-3 Watts at idle, and 4-6 watts when you're
       | remoted in controlling the screen.
       | 
       | I think ATX only requires around 5 W minimum for 5 Vsb so yeah...
       | 
       | It's kinda hard to measure the power use of Ilom, something like
       | an AST2500, for a number of reasons. They do get slightly warm,
       | so the chip itself probably burns around 1 W. But system power
       | use when on is of course also increased due to the various links
       | (PCIe, NIC links etc.). Plus around .5-1 W for the always-on
       | Ethernet link - EEE and a quiet management network would help
       | here.
        
         | geerlingguy wrote:
         | In my testing for the video, the card uses 2-3W at idle, and
         | 4-6W when streaming video to a remote browser session.
         | 
         | I haven't looked at the idle power spec lately, but I believe
         | the biggest problem would be when the computer is fully shut
         | down, I don't think you can get enough power to run a card like
         | this?
        
       | jeffbee wrote:
       | In case you wanted your PC to draw 2W even when it's off. This
       | card by itself would violate the energy star standards for small
       | servers when off.
        
         | chrisan wrote:
         | Couldn't you just use WOL for the pi?
        
           | geerlingguy wrote:
           | Unfortunately the Raspberry Pi doesn't support WoL :(
        
         | geerlingguy wrote:
         | Most IPMI/iDRAC/ILO chips burn 3-6W when the server's powered
         | off, if you have them running on a network. If you need the
         | remote management even when the server's powered down, that
         | power consumption's a tradeoff you have to make.
         | 
         | ASRock Rack's PAUL card says it uses 7-8W, so this board is a
         | good bit under that.
        
       | snoopy_telex wrote:
       | I would love to see it have an option to expose the USB HID and
       | HDMI over the pci link rather than having to loop cables between
       | the card and the host.
        
         | geerlingguy wrote:
         | And a serial bus connection, could be useful in a number of
         | scenarios. The devs behind this board (blicube) have been
         | willing to listen to customer requests[1]... it's not outside
         | the realm of possibility--though would increase the complexity
         | of the board a bit.
         | 
         | [1] https://github.com/ThomasVon2021/pikvm-board/issues
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Why put a computer inside every server if you can have a computer
       | control a whole rack of servers?
       | 
       | The KVM part is only useful when setting up the server. A
       | solution that allows easy unplugging seems preferable.
        
         | Melatonic wrote:
         | For remote access? KVM has saved my ass many times
        
       | goombacloud wrote:
       | Is the "USB-PC" port to forward the server's serial console or
       | doesn't it have a port for that? PiKVM seems to support IPMI SoL.
        
         | geerlingguy wrote:
         | That's just an external port for USB input (from a USB port on
         | the PC), not for serial bus. This card doesn't have any serial
         | bus input, though I think there are pins exposed for UART
         | somewhere, but not populated.
        
       | mtlynch wrote:
       | I'm the founder of TinyPilot, a project that operates in the same
       | space.
       | 
       | I haven't really been following BliKVM, but some alarm bells are
       | going off as I follow the links here:
       | 
       | 1. BliKVM advertises themselves as open hardware, but the
       | hardware repo[0] contains no sources / schematics that would
       | allow anyone to reproduce the hardware.
       | 
       | 2. When I looked for the hardware sources, I realized that BliKVM
       | is redistributing TinyPilot code in violation of TinyPilot's
       | license. [1], [2] We're licensed under MIT, so BliKVM is allowed
       | to redistribute and modify freely, but they have to preserve our
       | license and copyright notice.
       | 
       | If BliKVM actually _is_ open hardware, that would be wonderful,
       | and I 'd be interested in collaborating with them, but it doesn't
       | seem like honest advertising at this point.
       | 
       | [0] https://github.com/ThomasVon2021/pikvm-board
       | 
       | [1] https://github.com/ThomasVon2021/pikvm-
       | board/blob/master/src... vs. TinyPilot's code:
       | https://github.com/tiny-pilot/tinypilot/blob/609b36faf2352cb...
       | 
       | [2]
       | https://github.com/ThomasVon2021/blikvm/blob/master/package/...
       | vs. TinyPilot's code: https://github.com/tiny-pilot/ansible-role-
       | tinypilot/blob/ma...
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | geerlingguy wrote:
         | Huh... I didn't even notice that in the source code. Definitely
         | off-putting. These boards do boot off PiKVM directly, so their
         | prebuilt images aren't even necessary. They do have open issues
         | on that git repo, I would suggest opening an issue and asking
         | them to either remove the code or make it fit the license
         | (preserving any of the statements as required by MIT).
        
           | mtlynch wrote:
           | Thanks, Jeff!
           | 
           | I opened some issues:
           | 
           | https://github.com/ThomasVon2021/pikvm-board/issues/38
           | 
           | https://github.com/ThomasVon2021/pikvm-board/issues/39
           | 
           | https://github.com/ThomasVon2021/blikvm/issues/3
        
         | ddalex wrote:
         | Thank you for putting TinyPilot together - it saved my ass a
         | couple of times; but the big problem is that the USB port of
         | the host computer doesn't provide enough current to reliably
         | power the Pi through the USB-C, so an out-of-box Pi is not
         | really reliable.
        
           | mtlynch wrote:
           | Glad to hear it!
           | 
           | Regarding power, you can get a USB-C splitter[0], which will
           | allow you to give your Pi the full 3 Amps. The TinyPilot
           | Voyager 2 has this built-in, and the PoE one makes it so you
           | don't need AC power at all.
           | 
           | [0] https://tinypilotkvm.com/blog/build-a-kvm-over-ip-
           | under-100#...
        
         | Melatonic wrote:
         | Interesting. I was actually thinking about doing something very
         | similar with a few higher spec Chromeboxes inside my existing
         | desktop - my plan was to have them completely separate from the
         | main PC and then use the existing / unused space and slots of
         | my case. I have room for a lot of drives and was basically
         | gonna try to do a little double hyperconverged system.
        
       | znpy wrote:
       | unironically i've been thinking that something like this should
       | have been done years before. i would have done it myself, but i
       | don't have the skills.
       | 
       | the ideal would be to have two (three?) network ports however.
       | 
       | the idea would be to have one port to the wan, another to the
       | network port of the host computer, and maybe a third one for the
       | ilo/idrac/ipmi port.
       | 
       | it would be great in my opinion.
        
         | jaywalk wrote:
         | I don't understand the use for additional Ethernet ports. What
         | functionality do you envision for them?
        
         | jewel wrote:
         | The concept has been around for a while:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SunPCi
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | Maursault wrote:
           | Also notable[1][2], but for entirely different and wider
           | purposes, and considerably closer in generational performance
           | to the host machines.
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibility_card
           | 
           | [2] https://lowendmac.com/1991/radius-rocket-and-stage-ii-
           | rocket...
        
       | hackcasual wrote:
       | I bought a Raritan KX IV-101 at the start of the pandemic, and it
       | was single handedly the best home office purchase I've made.
       | They're going for about $300 more than what I got it for, but it
       | simply out-performs the PiKVM for an actual KVM replacement,
       | where I'm able to use my personal desktop setup for working on my
       | work PCs.
       | 
       | Being able to do 1920x1200 at 60fps is so much more fluid and
       | useable. 24fps is distracting to me even for simple things like
       | text editing.
        
         | mmastrac wrote:
         | With the exception of Raspberry Pis, the KXII is pretty much
         | golden for this as well. There's the small downside of needing
         | to use a Java app for remote access but the interactivity is
         | amazing.
        
       | fennecfoxen wrote:
       | It puts a computer in my computer? So I can compute while I
       | compute?
        
         | dmonitor wrote:
         | So it can compute while you don't compute
        
         | Phrenzy wrote:
         | Only if you run Docker on it.
        
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