[HN Gopher] BliKVM PCIe puts a computer in your computer
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BliKVM PCIe puts a computer in your computer
Author : ingve
Score : 79 points
Date : 2022-09-15 16:45 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.jeffgeerling.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.jeffgeerling.com)
| LinuxBender wrote:
| This looks like a nice alternative to the proprietary ilo/drac
| especially for home or remote site use.
|
| Is this running a bog standard Rasberry Pi OS and an open source
| firmware? Can the owner run a command to drop to a root shell,
| configure firewall rules, etc? Asking because Dell made it much
| harder to get a root shell on the dracs and the enterprise cards
| have hard coded creds _this is not documented_. Is the KVM
| interface using HTML5?
| jaywalk wrote:
| The card itself isn't running anything. You just add a bog-
| standard rPi CM4 running PiKVM (https://pikvm.org/). You can
| accomplish the same thing with a regular rPi running PiKVM
| externally.
| LinuxBender wrote:
| Perfect, thankyou for the clarification. That makes sense now
| given its an add-on board. It's been ages since I looked into
| network KVM. The DIY/consumer options seem to have evolved
| quite a bit.
| jaywalk wrote:
| There are some nice options out there. I use a DIY
| TinyPilot build, and have been pretty happy with it.
| geerlingguy wrote:
| Yeah, PiKVM is quite nice these days. It also defaults to
| booting in a minimal readonly filesystem, so running it off
| a microSD card isn't an issue either.
| pixelmonkey wrote:
| My "cheap trick" to do this with my own home server is to use a
| Raspberry Pi which stays always on and is wired into same LAN as
| my homelab server. Then, I have a small shell script that uses
| the etherwake Linux CLI tool to send a Wake-on-LAN magic packet
| to wake my server when it's sleeping. For full server reboots, I
| have the server on a remote-accessible power switch that can be
| cycled from the same Raspberry Pi. I network all the devices
| together using ZeroTier.
|
| I have to admit, though, that the idea of the computer being
| inside the server box (similar to a Dell iDRAC in a colo
| environment) is appealing, and also opens up the opportunity for
| things like "direct KVM" keyboard/display access. That said, for
| my homelab use cases, the ability to reboot the server,
| suspend/unsuspend, and bastion SSH through the Raspberry Pi has
| been good enough.
| gibspaulding wrote:
| It would be pretty easy to model and 3d print an adapter to fit
| a Pi into a 3.5HDD bay. You'd have to run the power and
| Ethernet connection out the back of the PC through a water
| cooler grommet or PCI slot, but it would give the pi a safe
| home with good air flow! I considered doing this once for a
| file server I was hosting on a pi (since it would provide a
| home for a storage drive as well), but ended up going a
| different route.
| drewzero1 wrote:
| Even better in a floppy/media card/5.25 bay so there could be
| an OLED IP/info readout on the front of the PC. I love this
| idea, really getting my gears turning.
| toast0 wrote:
| > . Then, I have a small shell script that uses the etherwake
| Linux CLI tool to send a Wake-on-LAN magic packet to wake my
| server when it's sleeping. For full server reboots, I have the
| server on a remote-accessible power switch that can be cycled
| from the same Raspberry Pi.
|
| A long time ago, Facebook wired wake-on-lan to do a system
| reset. (With selected ethernet cards that could customize the
| wake-on-lan packet). They abandoned that in favor of OpenBMC,
| but it's an interesting idea for low spec control.
| phendrenad2 wrote:
| I wonder how many fewer of these they would sell if the PCIe card
| edge were blank rather than covered in useless pins.
| Melatonic wrote:
| Doesnt it take power from the slot?
| consp wrote:
| Wouldn't that potentially put unwanted scrapings (non
| conductive) on the pcie pins? This looks like the best option
| to me.
| phendrenad2 wrote:
| I don't think so - there have been many examples of plastic
| or FR4 cards which sit in PCI slots.
| zamadatix wrote:
| I really love PiKVM! I use it for my personal colo'd boxes and
| it's a real treat over normal remote management solutions.
|
| That said I'm not sure what BliKVM really provides me beyond more
| limitations on where I can put it and one less PCIe slot
| available on the motherboard. I was expecting something more
| smart NIC like where the PCIe bus is actually used to communicate
| with the host too - or maybe the better description was wishing
| for :).
| drewzero1 wrote:
| I agree, I got excited when I saw the PCIe card and less
| excited when I found out it didn't do anything with the slot.
| I'd love to see on that used the slot for communication, maybe
| even video and power.
| formerly_proven wrote:
| PCIe actually includes stand-by power, so this card using usb-c
| PD and PoE instead would suggest idle power consumption is
| significant.
|
| > It uses about 2-3 Watts at idle, and 4-6 watts when you're
| remoted in controlling the screen.
|
| I think ATX only requires around 5 W minimum for 5 Vsb so yeah...
|
| It's kinda hard to measure the power use of Ilom, something like
| an AST2500, for a number of reasons. They do get slightly warm,
| so the chip itself probably burns around 1 W. But system power
| use when on is of course also increased due to the various links
| (PCIe, NIC links etc.). Plus around .5-1 W for the always-on
| Ethernet link - EEE and a quiet management network would help
| here.
| geerlingguy wrote:
| In my testing for the video, the card uses 2-3W at idle, and
| 4-6W when streaming video to a remote browser session.
|
| I haven't looked at the idle power spec lately, but I believe
| the biggest problem would be when the computer is fully shut
| down, I don't think you can get enough power to run a card like
| this?
| jeffbee wrote:
| In case you wanted your PC to draw 2W even when it's off. This
| card by itself would violate the energy star standards for small
| servers when off.
| chrisan wrote:
| Couldn't you just use WOL for the pi?
| geerlingguy wrote:
| Unfortunately the Raspberry Pi doesn't support WoL :(
| geerlingguy wrote:
| Most IPMI/iDRAC/ILO chips burn 3-6W when the server's powered
| off, if you have them running on a network. If you need the
| remote management even when the server's powered down, that
| power consumption's a tradeoff you have to make.
|
| ASRock Rack's PAUL card says it uses 7-8W, so this board is a
| good bit under that.
| snoopy_telex wrote:
| I would love to see it have an option to expose the USB HID and
| HDMI over the pci link rather than having to loop cables between
| the card and the host.
| geerlingguy wrote:
| And a serial bus connection, could be useful in a number of
| scenarios. The devs behind this board (blicube) have been
| willing to listen to customer requests[1]... it's not outside
| the realm of possibility--though would increase the complexity
| of the board a bit.
|
| [1] https://github.com/ThomasVon2021/pikvm-board/issues
| amelius wrote:
| Why put a computer inside every server if you can have a computer
| control a whole rack of servers?
|
| The KVM part is only useful when setting up the server. A
| solution that allows easy unplugging seems preferable.
| Melatonic wrote:
| For remote access? KVM has saved my ass many times
| goombacloud wrote:
| Is the "USB-PC" port to forward the server's serial console or
| doesn't it have a port for that? PiKVM seems to support IPMI SoL.
| geerlingguy wrote:
| That's just an external port for USB input (from a USB port on
| the PC), not for serial bus. This card doesn't have any serial
| bus input, though I think there are pins exposed for UART
| somewhere, but not populated.
| mtlynch wrote:
| I'm the founder of TinyPilot, a project that operates in the same
| space.
|
| I haven't really been following BliKVM, but some alarm bells are
| going off as I follow the links here:
|
| 1. BliKVM advertises themselves as open hardware, but the
| hardware repo[0] contains no sources / schematics that would
| allow anyone to reproduce the hardware.
|
| 2. When I looked for the hardware sources, I realized that BliKVM
| is redistributing TinyPilot code in violation of TinyPilot's
| license. [1], [2] We're licensed under MIT, so BliKVM is allowed
| to redistribute and modify freely, but they have to preserve our
| license and copyright notice.
|
| If BliKVM actually _is_ open hardware, that would be wonderful,
| and I 'd be interested in collaborating with them, but it doesn't
| seem like honest advertising at this point.
|
| [0] https://github.com/ThomasVon2021/pikvm-board
|
| [1] https://github.com/ThomasVon2021/pikvm-
| board/blob/master/src... vs. TinyPilot's code:
| https://github.com/tiny-pilot/tinypilot/blob/609b36faf2352cb...
|
| [2]
| https://github.com/ThomasVon2021/blikvm/blob/master/package/...
| vs. TinyPilot's code: https://github.com/tiny-pilot/ansible-role-
| tinypilot/blob/ma...
| [deleted]
| geerlingguy wrote:
| Huh... I didn't even notice that in the source code. Definitely
| off-putting. These boards do boot off PiKVM directly, so their
| prebuilt images aren't even necessary. They do have open issues
| on that git repo, I would suggest opening an issue and asking
| them to either remove the code or make it fit the license
| (preserving any of the statements as required by MIT).
| mtlynch wrote:
| Thanks, Jeff!
|
| I opened some issues:
|
| https://github.com/ThomasVon2021/pikvm-board/issues/38
|
| https://github.com/ThomasVon2021/pikvm-board/issues/39
|
| https://github.com/ThomasVon2021/blikvm/issues/3
| ddalex wrote:
| Thank you for putting TinyPilot together - it saved my ass a
| couple of times; but the big problem is that the USB port of
| the host computer doesn't provide enough current to reliably
| power the Pi through the USB-C, so an out-of-box Pi is not
| really reliable.
| mtlynch wrote:
| Glad to hear it!
|
| Regarding power, you can get a USB-C splitter[0], which will
| allow you to give your Pi the full 3 Amps. The TinyPilot
| Voyager 2 has this built-in, and the PoE one makes it so you
| don't need AC power at all.
|
| [0] https://tinypilotkvm.com/blog/build-a-kvm-over-ip-
| under-100#...
| Melatonic wrote:
| Interesting. I was actually thinking about doing something very
| similar with a few higher spec Chromeboxes inside my existing
| desktop - my plan was to have them completely separate from the
| main PC and then use the existing / unused space and slots of
| my case. I have room for a lot of drives and was basically
| gonna try to do a little double hyperconverged system.
| znpy wrote:
| unironically i've been thinking that something like this should
| have been done years before. i would have done it myself, but i
| don't have the skills.
|
| the ideal would be to have two (three?) network ports however.
|
| the idea would be to have one port to the wan, another to the
| network port of the host computer, and maybe a third one for the
| ilo/idrac/ipmi port.
|
| it would be great in my opinion.
| jaywalk wrote:
| I don't understand the use for additional Ethernet ports. What
| functionality do you envision for them?
| jewel wrote:
| The concept has been around for a while:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SunPCi
| [deleted]
| Maursault wrote:
| Also notable[1][2], but for entirely different and wider
| purposes, and considerably closer in generational performance
| to the host machines.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibility_card
|
| [2] https://lowendmac.com/1991/radius-rocket-and-stage-ii-
| rocket...
| hackcasual wrote:
| I bought a Raritan KX IV-101 at the start of the pandemic, and it
| was single handedly the best home office purchase I've made.
| They're going for about $300 more than what I got it for, but it
| simply out-performs the PiKVM for an actual KVM replacement,
| where I'm able to use my personal desktop setup for working on my
| work PCs.
|
| Being able to do 1920x1200 at 60fps is so much more fluid and
| useable. 24fps is distracting to me even for simple things like
| text editing.
| mmastrac wrote:
| With the exception of Raspberry Pis, the KXII is pretty much
| golden for this as well. There's the small downside of needing
| to use a Java app for remote access but the interactivity is
| amazing.
| fennecfoxen wrote:
| It puts a computer in my computer? So I can compute while I
| compute?
| dmonitor wrote:
| So it can compute while you don't compute
| Phrenzy wrote:
| Only if you run Docker on it.
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