[HN Gopher] Pay attention to deviations from mainstream incentives
___________________________________________________________________
Pay attention to deviations from mainstream incentives
Author : exolymph
Score : 208 points
Date : 2022-09-15 04:52 UTC (18 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (commoncog.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (commoncog.com)
| unraveller wrote:
| Subscription bait warning, the very next clarifying part is
| behind paywall. These trickle artists are no better than free to
| play.
| ema wrote:
| While the article functions as an ad for a paid subscription,
| it contains more than enough substance in itself that bait is
| not an appropriate description.
| yccs27 wrote:
| Casual HN readers get a very interesting article without banner
| ads or paywall. People who are interested in more related
| content are encouraged to pay for a subscription. I don't see
| much wrong with that.
| actionfromafar wrote:
| Much like HN itself.
| mikequinlan wrote:
| How do I pay for more related content from Hacker News?
| mrguyorama wrote:
| You move to San Fransisco and pretend you are better than
| everyone else and can solve all the worlds problems.
| possiblelion wrote:
| Very cool piece, one of the most interesting I've read on HN
| recently. As someone building their first starup in a completely
| different category (fintech for Africa), many of the high-tier
| lessons about SOPs still made me think.
| bazoom42 wrote:
| I dont get how having idle staff helps launder money? Presumably
| the scheme works by adding fake transactions to the books.
| MichaelCollins wrote:
| It could be a way of giving 'legitimate' income to
| friends/family/conspirators.
| bazoom42 wrote:
| But why do they have to be there? Couldnt you just pay them
| the salary anyway?
| renewiltord wrote:
| The Gramercy Tavern beetle story makes me wonder about this. If
| you provided unified customer experience in some contexts it's
| cool. In others, it's creepy. Even if the actual act hasn't
| changed.
|
| I wonder what separates the two.
| caporaltito wrote:
| > I wonder what separates the two.
|
| Self mockery, I guess. If you're a fancy restaurant, it implies
| that you are high end but not arrogant enough to ignore your
| own mistakes. So, it conveys the message that you are always
| willing the best for your customers.
| shimon wrote:
| It comes down to whether the experience is desired or not.
|
| When multiple people recognize and respond to you, it is a sign
| of fame and respect. People generally like to be well-known and
| respected, so this coordination is appreciated.
|
| When a machine recognizes and responds to you, it is often not
| a sign of respect but a sign of exploitation. I think it's
| kinda useful when I see relevant ads on a website based on my
| recent browsing. But I might feel differently if I spent 8
| hours a day driving wherever a computer told me to go or
| cooking whatever a computer told me to cook.
| Archit3ch wrote:
| So much talk of incentives and no explanation of the incentive to
| make only their second blog post in the series free. ;)
| vlz wrote:
| > ... differentiation strategy of 'enlightened hospitality'
| through a synergistic set of human resource management practices
| involving three key practices: selection of employees based on
| emotional capabilities, respectful treatment of employees, and
| management through a simple set of rules that stimulate complex
| and intricate behaviours benefiting customers.
|
| So, hire nice people, be fair to them and encourage everybody to
| treat the customers fairly and kindly?
|
| Maybe just being a good person is good for business?
| caporaltito wrote:
| Nah, that you would be weird in a service oriented industry.
| suslik wrote:
| > just being a good person
|
| You say it like this is something well-defined and easily
| achievable, but I am not sure it is.
| mellavora wrote:
| Easily achievable, certainly not. Well defined, possibly.
|
| Morals and ethics. Things which were heavily taught in
| earlier times, and which now have been replaced by STEM.
|
| Someone is going to squwak that morals and ethics have been
| debated for millenium, thus certainly NOT well defined.
|
| response: nice STEM thinking, which assumes a mathematical
| definition of "defined".
|
| VS a morals and ethics definition, which says "here are the
| points of variance which go into moral decision making."
| Where a "definition" is not an answer, it is a framing of the
| debate.
|
| Because moral decisions are always tradeoffs along different
| dimensions. And moral reasoning is about making judgement
| calls under uncertainty.
| wisty wrote:
| Moral philosophy, in practice, is not about finding the
| right answer but justifying the gut reaction of the
| practitioner. The utility of moral education wasn't to come
| up with better decisions, but to explain to young boys (or
| maybe girls, if they were educated) why the rules exist.
| suoduandao2 wrote:
| >Replaced by STEM
|
| I cannot let this go because my Engineering undergrad is
| the one place I encountered a decent course on ethics;
| studying the subject is necessary for licensure. We didn't
| displace ethics, Philosophy departments got lost in their
| own rhetorical devices and don't talk about the 'how then
| should we live?' question enough to interest the general
| public.
| renewiltord wrote:
| > _... encourage everybody to treat the customers fairly and
| kindly?_
|
| Do you believe that is an accurate summary of "management
| through a simple set of rules that stimulate complex and
| intricate behaviours benefiting customers"?
|
| The customers in the story had experience that were more than
| fair and kind. In fact, they are quite remarkable interactions.
| And the repeatability of remarkableness is not easy.
| occamrazor wrote:
| The OP also explains (partly here and partly in a previous
| post, linked in the story) how this is not a good strategy for
| most other restaurants which do not have a wide range of
| locations, from fast food to fine dining.
| urthor wrote:
| This exactly.
|
| In fact, this is an article in of itself. With most jobs,
| employers are heavily incentivized to not make them
| incredibly enjoyable.
|
| Everyone complains about their employers. Especially in
| technology.
|
| However, tons of businesses emphatically do not have an
| incentive to create happy, enjoyable workplaces for their
| employees.
| empiricus wrote:
| I don't understand how money laundering works in the anecdote at
| the beginning. I guess you can launder some money that way, but
| how efficient is it?
| jayceedenton wrote:
| The business records a high number of sales (or high value
| sales) and hence dirty money can be used as clean incoming
| money.
|
| The high staff numbers indicate either a) staff can accumulate
| and no-one is really bothered because the normal economics
| don't apply, or b) more staff implies a bigger business (to
| anyone looking at the books), which means more money can be
| laundered without raising suspicion. Efficiency just depends on
| how much cash you can imply this coffee shop makes, so more
| staff is a good thing.
| qzw wrote:
| Some number of the staff may also be from the "questionable"
| side of the business. They don't have to do any actual
| restaurant work but will get some clean income as part of
| their total compensation. So the laundering happens at more
| than one level and could be more efficient overall than at
| first glance.
| empiricus wrote:
| I imagine this way you can launder on the order of 10-100k
| dollars/month? With 30-40% payed for taxes and employees?
| BoardsOfCanada wrote:
| There is something I don't understand: If you pretend do have
| a lot of customers (to feed illegal income into pretend
| purchases), why not also pretend to have a lot of employees?
| At least they don't need to be present, since this seems to
| be what make people suspicious.
| bluehatbrit wrote:
| I'm just guessing, but if someone does decide to
| investigate your business I assume they'll start by
| checking the people in it. If they find you've faked
| employment records then the gig will be up pretty quickly.
| Employing people keeps the facade up in the same way as
| actually serving food and drinks.
|
| I suppose if your "other" side of the business has people
| working for it, then it's not going to change the
| financials much to have them on the books of the
| restaurant.
| auggierose wrote:
| Because employees have easily checkable social security
| numbers.
| bombcar wrote:
| You also hire family members of your " real employees " so
| that they have legitimate income also.
| ozim wrote:
| So talking about incentives.
|
| Efficient money laundering will get you caught. Incentive is
| not to get caught and not having all the money seized.
| mellavora wrote:
| Nice. I love how you stress the long-term compound efficiency
| goal ("don't get caught") vs the short term efficiency goal
| ("pay as little as possible").
|
| Which also comes back to early comments about "treat your
| employees well", which incurs a higher up-front cost to
| generate a massive long-term payout.
|
| Also see comment on ML efficiency rates, yes, 30-40% hit to
| get the money clean is a lot better than no money plus jail.
| One of the reason black market goods are expensive is because
| the costs of doing business are so high. You pay 40% or
| higher money laundering "tax" to avoid paying tax.
| 988747 wrote:
| Does this "30-40% hit" includes taxes already? Because
| that's the whole point of ML, right? Pretending that money
| came from legal sources means paying income taxes on them.
| Your last sentence is confusing in that regard.
| mellavora wrote:
| That 30-40% is pulled from an earlier comment on the
| thread. I'm not actually a professional money launderer,
| nor do I rely on their services, so I cannot give factual
| current rates.
|
| But to clarify, I meant the 30-40% as a total cost, i.e.
| I put in 100 dirty dollars and take out 60 clean. You are
| correct that an income tax would then apply.
|
| If instead I kept the 100 as cash, I could spend the 100,
| and not pay any income tax.
|
| Staying all cash probably works at the 100 level. Becomes
| dicey at the 100K level.
| nickdothutton wrote:
| Several large heroin deals went down in London in the early 70s.
| Tremendously profitable shipments were flowing from Afghanistan.
| So much so that one of the main problems was laundering those
| profits. Dozens of restaurants were sustained in Brick Lane by
| this "custom", far more restaurants than there were legitimate
| diners for. After the money-flow dried up, many of them struggled
| and there were closures. They weren't sustainable. Only the
| better ones survived.
| gadders wrote:
| It's American Candy shops now. Allegedly.
|
| https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61777445
| DoneWithAllThat wrote:
| Was that article written by an AI? It was shockingly
| difficult to read and had a very oddly stilted to the text.
| Some of the sentences didn't even seem like actually full
| sentences.
| coastermug wrote:
| Have a search for the original investigative piece done by
| Private Eye. The rest of the reports on this are somewhat
| lazy copies of their original work.
| gadders wrote:
| Found it: https://www.reddit.com/r/london/comments/cnkcaz
| /private_eye_...
|
| Will give it a read...
| turnerc wrote:
| Unfortunately the BBC has gone dramatically down hill,
| mostly blogspam now.
| Arrath wrote:
| Was recently in the UK and found it very odd just how many of
| these places there were.
| boringg wrote:
| If i recall correctly London is the money laundering capital of
| the planet. So this sounds right up their business alley.
| mdorazio wrote:
| This article is interesting not just because the particular
| businesses it explores via stories, but because of its broader
| message to entrepreneurs about the importance of understanding
| your customers' business models if you want to succeed. Many
| engineering-focused founders struggle with this part. If you want
| to actually sell the thing you built (food ordering kiosks in the
| author's case), you have to align the value proposition with the
| customer's business model and incentives. This business model and
| incentive structure might not be what you initially think.
| saurik wrote:
| > "Oh," my dad said, waving his hand dismissively at the small
| army, "Everyone knows this coffee shop is owned by loan sharks.
| It's probably a money laundering operation."
|
| A long time ago, I went to a Czech restaurant in San Francisco (I
| am always interested in finding Czech food, as it is somewhat
| rare in the US anywhere but where I'm originally from: near
| Chicago, aka Czech-ago ;P). The food my friend got seemed to be
| literally microwaved (he said half of it was very cold while the
| other half of it was very hot), and they were entirely out of at
| least fruit dumplings I remember for sure but I also think there
| were a couple other things missing. I definitely remember someone
| commenting that it felt a bit like a money laundering scheme more
| so than a restaurant.
|
| Years later (still a while ago... maybe a decade?) I was again in
| San Francisco, and I went to the same restaurant--I mean, at
| least it is Czech food, right?! ;P--and now it was in a different
| much fancier dining area (though I also remember being somewhat
| difficult to find and sort of almost in a basement; it was just
| furnished almost ridiculously fancy). I was the only person
| there, however. This time, their menu didn't have a bunch of
| options they could be out of: they had exactly three dishes.
|
| There was, however, multiple wait staff at the restaurant, all
| just kind of doing nothing. I ordered a goulash I think, and it
| was OK. I mean, I was coming into this expecting it might just be
| them microwaving frozen scoops of food, and didn't care as,
| again, "at least it is Czech food". It was tasty enough that I
| went back the next day for the svickova.
|
| Again, no one was there. They also seemed so confused by how I
| was there. Now twice in a row. Ordering food off of their menu of
| only three options ;P. At the end of the dinner, I asked them "do
| you ever have... fruit dumplings?" and suddenly the guy--who
| maybe thought I was a cop casing the joint ;P--suddenly had a
| realization: "are you... Czech?!".
|
| I did not return for a third day ;P. I remember checking and a
| number of the reviews on whatever review site I was using at this
| point were also people who stumbled into this restaurant and
| started to think "how is this even a restaurant? are we sure this
| isn't a money laundering front?!". That said, it also isn't clear
| to me how money laundering can work if everyone suspects it at
| your business!
| duxup wrote:
| There's a bank near me. It is open usual hours but nobody seems
| to go there other than employees. Nobody goes through the drive
| through, nobody in visitor parking, ever.
|
| When I used to work late at night I would drive by there would
| sometimes be people inside scurrying about.
|
| It has been open for nearly 20 years like this.
| jtbayly wrote:
| > late at night I would drive by there would sometimes be
| people inside scurrying about
|
| Sounds like the cleaners.
| nordsieck wrote:
| Many people don't know this but a bank's primary business is
| lending, not borrowing. It's totally possible that it was a
| bank that did almost exclusively commercial loans and didn't
| have any retail savings/checking accounts.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| There are also many banks that specialize in lending and
| borrowing in really large quantities.
|
| One of those can keep an store open with no visible
| movement but still highly profitable.
| reggedtorespond wrote:
| A bank seems like one of the worst businesses to operate as
| a money laundering front. They are subject to a lot of
| disclosures and reviews other companies aren't.
| duxup wrote:
| That's what I figured too. There's just too much
| potential disclosure and so on.
|
| Rando store would seem to be the best option.
| macNchz wrote:
| I encountered something similar to this a long time ago in NYC.
| My friend who keeps tropical fish invited me to tag along with
| him shopping for interesting new additions to his tank.
|
| We visited a couple in Chinatown that were striking similar to
| your Czech restaurant: employees kind of surprised to see
| someone come in the door, one operational fish tank with one or
| two fish in it amidst a large wall of empty tanks, comically
| outrageous over the top nobody-would-ever-pay-that-ever-ever
| prices. Figured it must have been some flavor of money
| laundering, but it also seemed... too obvious?
| tptacek wrote:
| I'm more Slovak than Czech but I'd be interested in knowing
| what the good Chicagoland Czech places are.
| saurik wrote:
| So, I actually have somewhat devastating news on this front
| :(. The issue is that all of these restaurants were owned and
| operated by old families and their clientele were mostly
| older people... so this entire community of interest is
| slowly dying (figuratively for sure; but also quite
| literately).
|
| My family's favorite restaurant growing up was Riverside
| Family Restaurant. I was back home recently, and intended to
| have dinner there, but hadn't realized they had closed back
| in 2019.
|
| https://www.rblandmark.com/2019/04/09/riverside-
| restaurant-o...
|
| > "Most of the recipes were basically personal recipes, and
| some were fine-tuned, but the basic were always there,"
| Stanga said. "We still cook, we make the dumplings. So maybe
| that's why we were around for so long. I think we tie people
| to their roots."
|
| Then Little Bohemia closed in early 2020 (before the
| pandemic, FWIW).
|
| https://www.rblandmark.com/2020/01/21/riversides-
| restaurant-...
|
| > Riverside Restaurant closed and now Little Bohemia. If you
| notice, they were both restaurants that served Bohemian/Czech
| food. Good comfort food. At present I can count more good
| ethnic Bohemian restaurants that have left the area than
| still remain. Of course who could forget Czech Lodge in North
| Riverside? A bit fancier than the usual. You could go up and
| down Cermak Road to satisfy your cravings.
|
| > Luckily Czech Plaza in Berwyn and Klas in Cicero, both on
| Cermak Road are still open. In Stickney there is Josie's. In
| Westchester, I've been told, there is a good place to go --
| or if you want to take a ride, go to Crystal Palace in
| Westmont. So there are still places to go, but I liked having
| them here. I'm starting to whine and that's not good!
|
| But they are wrong about Klas: it closed in 2016.
|
| https://news.wttw.com/2021/07/29/ask-geoffrey-cicero-s-
| klas-...
|
| > A connecting line - literally - for all these communities
| was 22nd Street, known today as Cermak Road.
|
| > The street is named for Chicago Mayor Anton Cermak, himself
| a Czech immigrant who served only two years in office in the
| early 1930s.
|
| > Klas ultimately closed its doors in 2016 mostly for
| financial and operational reasons, although many hope not for
| the last time - more on that in a minute. ... As for the Klas
| Restaurant today, it's currently unoccupied and not in great
| shape. ... Their goal is to turn the building into a museum
| of Czech history, as well as a bar and event space.
|
| They probably just kept hearing about it as there is that
| campaign to rejuvenate it?
|
| https://www.wbez.org/stories/whats-that-building-the-klas-
| re...
|
| > In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, Chicago was a
| powerful magnet attracting Eastern European immigrants. One
| of the most colorful remnants of that era sits at 5734 W.
| Cermak Road in Cicero. Currently closed and moldering, an
| organized effort is trying to save it, and possibly
| transition it into a memorable place for immigrants from all
| parts of the world.
|
| > Klas Restaurant has been vacant since it closed about five
| years ago. From the street, an exuberant exterior of half
| timbers, carved stone, wooden shutters and metal spires is
| still an eye-catching presence.
|
| And then Czech Plaza closed in late 2020, now dealing with
| the post-COVID restaurant landscape.
|
| https://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=45872
|
| > Czech Plaza has announced it is closing at the end of
| December 2020. Really a sad situation, they were done in by
| the pandemic. They were also not able to really get in on the
| outdoor dining thing in the summer because they lacked space
| and are located on busy Cermak Road. The owner of the
| building (not the owner of the restaurant) is trying to sell
| it. So we have lost both Little Bohemia and the Riverside
| Restaurant, both in Riverside over the past few years, as
| well of course as Klas.
|
| > What's left? Well Bohemian Crystal in Westmont seems to be
| open, as well as the Westchester Inn, and the McCook Bohemian
| Restaurant. If anyone ventures to go to these, I would check
| first as restaurants seem to close abruptly sometimes, change
| hours or their menus, or they are only doing carry out
| business now, although some are defying the Governor's orders
| and allowing in house dining. There is also Cafe Prague, in
| the city, but it does not look like they have much Czech food
| on the menu. If anyone else knows of a Czech restaurant in
| Chicagoland, please post here. Some may say the Golden
| Pheasant in Elmhurst, and the Bavarian Lodge in Lisle but I'm
| not sure these are really on point for Czech Food.
|
| I am assuming the aforementioned "Crystal Palace" is the
| "Bohemian Crystal", which is the other restaurant my family
| would go to if and only if Riverside was closed. However, it
| is currently for sale, so I guess get it while the gettin's
| good? :(
|
| https://old.reddit.com/r/chicago/comments/ktw7jp/czech_plaza.
| ..
|
| > Back on August of 2020, Bohemian Crystal was listed for
| sale on Zillow. I just checked the link once again and found
| this info:
|
| https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/639-Blackhawk-Dr-
| Westmont...
|
| > Redevelopment opportunity directly across the street from
| the new FMC Natatorium at Ty Warner Park development. The
| existing 6,371 square foot free-standing building sits on
| 1.45 acres located just off the busy Ogden Ave commercial
| corridor with a traffic count of 32,000 vehicles per day.
| Currently operated as a successful restaurant with multiple
| dining rooms, large fully equipped kitchen and bar. The
| existing building sits on an expansive lot with 84 surface
| parking spots. Surrounded by high-end car dealerships
| including McGrath Acura/Lexus of Westmont, Laurel BMW of
| Westmont, Infiniti of Clarendon Hills, Audi Westmont,
| Mercedes-Benz of Westmont and Napleton Westmont Porsche.
| Across the street from Standard Market gourmet grocery store.
| Convenient access from both Kingery Highway (Rt 83) and the
| Tri-State Tollway (I-294). Perfect redevelopment opportunity.
| Land is being sold with existing restaurant and all the
| equipment and fixtures. DO NOT DISTURB EXISTING BUSINESS.
|
| (early edit:) Oh... and it is now listed as "Contingent" (I
| did all of this research back in April); if it already was
| then I didn't know what that meant at the time, but if the
| new owner isn't intending to keep a similar restaurant
| running--which I presume is unlikely, as it was listed as a
| "redevelopment opportunity"--then the Bohemian Crystal is
| about to go on the pile of dead restaurants :(.
|
| (later edit:) And now tptacek noted below that they have
| actually announced that they will be closing soon :(. I am
| adding a quote of that letter here, for completeness.
|
| http://www.bohemiancrystal.net/
|
| > Dear Customers,
|
| > With huge regret we have to inform you that after 41 years
| in business we are closing our restaurant, Bohemian Crystal.
| Our last day will be Sunday October, 2nd.
|
| > We would like to thank to all our customers for their long
| term loyalty and friendship.
|
| > Please, come to visit us before the front doors of our
| restaurant will be closed for good.
|
| > Your Bohemian Crystal Restaurant Team
|
| For my dinner in April, I started having to dig more deeply,
| trying to find ones I hadn't heard of before, and it just got
| more depressing.
|
| https://old.reddit.com/r/ChicagoSuburbs/comments/bs59oe/favo.
| ..
|
| > I frequently visited Bohemian Crystal in Westmont. Never
| had a bad meal in the five years I ate there. Westchester Inn
| is also on the list of my favorites.
|
| > Seems like these kind of restaurants are slowly dying in
| the Chicago area. Muldau's in Brookfield is closed along with
| Chauteau Rose and Klaus restaurants once located in Cicero.
|
| So that leaves only the Westchester Inn, the Bohemian Crystal
| (for now), and McCook Bohemian Family Restaurant & Lounge.
| The former two are closed on Monday, and I happened to be in
| town on a Monday, so I tried to go to McCook... and there was
| a handwritten special sign on the door saying they were
| closed for the day :(.
|
| I ended up finding a place a very short drive away from there
| on Yelp which shockingly sold fruit dumplings (and seemed to
| be a Czech place generally)... but the reason they were
| confusing was because they were a really a catering outfit
| which also sold some frozen food, not a restaurant where I
| could get something to eat.
|
| The (Czech) owner there told me to go to McCook, as they
| should be open; but when I told her they were closed for the
| day she got this super defeated look on her face as she
| sighed "of course" and then started going on a sad rant about
| how all of the Czech restaurants were gone.
|
| She listed the couple others I knew, noting they were closed
| on Monday, and then mentioned the existence a fourth one I
| didn't know of which was also closed on Monday _and Tuesday_
| (but she couldn 't remember the name, so I don't know what it
| was).
|
| (final edit:) That fourth restaurant is probably Cafe Prague,
| which was mentioned earlier in a quote as "in the city, but
| it does not look like they have much Czech food on the menu".
| I checked, and they are, in fact, closed on both Monday and
| Tuesday. FWIW, their "Czech Specialties" menu is complete
| enough? (They don't have fruit dumplings, though, which I
| personally find very sad.)
|
| My (Polish) friend and I ended up going to... Texas Roadhouse
| :/.
|
| But so, there _are_ still a handful of places that might be
| open if it isn 't Monday. It isn't, though, the vibrant
| community it once was, back when I would hear people say
| "Czech-ago" :(.
| tptacek wrote:
| Well, this is an amazing comment that I didn't super enjoy
| reading. And it looks like Bohemian Crystal has announced
| their closing as well:
|
| https://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=45872
|
| LTH seems to think Westchester Inn is still going strong.
| I'll have to hit it up. I've been to Prague a couple times
| and remember enjoying the food (I need more rose hips in my
| diet).
| saurik wrote:
| :( After posting, I re-checked that listing on Zillow--as
| I had done all of this research back in April--and saw it
| is now marked as "Contingent", but I hadn't thought to
| search to see if they had already announced anything.
| That's sad... I am now seriously considering flying out
| to Chicago next week to frequent there until they close.
|
| The bottom of that thread also mentions Cafe Prague a
| lot... I realized that that was likely the fourth
| restaurant mentioned by the owner of the catering outfit
| (as the hours check out, being closed on both Monday and
| Tuesday). Their Czech menu is a subset of their full
| menu, but is way more complete than anywhere I have so
| far found in the US outside of Chicagoland and is frankly
| competitive with McCook.
|
| So, I guess that means we are down to three remaining
| restaurants, with Westchester Inn being the only one that
| still has fruit dumplings (boiled, not fried), which I
| have found to be extremely difficult to find anywhere...
| I went to a town in Texas that is 90% Czech and, while
| people knew of and loved fruit dumplings, they didn't
| know of anywhere locally that had them :(. (I ended up
| not even managing to get Czech food in that town, due to
| conflicts with the opening hours.)
| jgerrish wrote:
| > That said, it also isn't clear to me how money laundering can
| work if everyone suspects it at your business!
|
| You know, I've never had one of those microwave Velveeta Mac
| and Cheese cups. But I bet they're pretty good, in terms of
| guilty pleasures.
|
| Not that I don't want authentic meals and experiences of
| course.
| ElCheapo wrote:
| A couple of months ago I went with a friend of mine to get a
| kebab in a place we haden't been before. It was a very large
| restaurant in an important street of town, and yet it was
| mostly empty and the kebab was very below average. There were
| also people talking at a large table and constantly getting
| food without even ordering.
|
| First thing I said to my friend was: "Yep, sure as hell they're
| getting the money from somewhere else"
| MichaelCollins wrote:
| There used to be a popular teriyaki place in Seattle that I
| frequented. Nicknamed "scary terri" because the neighborhood
| was [still is] notorious for street crime and the clientele
| were weird. It was always crowded though, the food was cheap
| and good. It wouldn't seem like a money laundering business by
| the standard of "but nobody eats here".
|
| Turns out the owner was a fence, buying and selling stolen
| goods. The police busted them a few years back.
| aaronbrethorst wrote:
| This one?
| https://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2015/04/17/detectives-
| service...
|
| "Scary" indeed: look at that health inspector report...
| pjc50 wrote:
| > That said, it also isn't clear to me how money laundering can
| work if everyone suspects it at your business!
|
| The huge wave of "American Candy" stores in the UK are
| apparently being investigated: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-
| england-london-61777445
|
| In that case, the alleged fraud relates to business rates
| (effectively property taxes). If it was empty, the landlord
| would have to pay them. If there's a business there, the
| business is liable .. unless, of course, it simply runs for a
| while and then vanishes.
| michaelgrafl wrote:
| Austrian here. In my experience, good Bohemien food is hard to
| come by outside of where it's customary. Even in joints that
| don't seem to be money laundering.
|
| I've had a similar experience with fellow classmates at a small
| osteria in Vienna we used to frequent when skipping English
| classes. But the food was actually decent and very cheap. But
| we never saw any other patrons.
| samastur wrote:
| True, but if you find yourself in La Paz, Bolivia, visit
| restaurant Vienna. It's been a few years since I've been, but
| the food was excellent as was selection of dishes, some of
| which I haven't had/seen since my childhood (I'm Slovenian).
| stinkytaco wrote:
| I think this is quite common. Either money laundering or a
| legitimate front for something else. There was a very good
| Bosnian restaurant in my town about 15 to 20 years ago, but
| there was only one waiter, who may also have been the cook, and
| one half of the restaurant was always slightly darker and
| always had people who clearly "belonged there" sitting at a
| table in the corner. Perhaps I'm being unfair and it was just a
| gathering place for the local community and they decided to
| make a little money off of it as long as they had it, but it
| always gave me a weird vibe. In a different town I lived in
| there was an African restaurant that was never open, but always
| had two or three people in it drinking coffee. It was there for
| years and I never once saw it open or empty.
| dpio wrote:
| This is one of the funniest things I've read on HN in a long
| time, thank you!
| vasco wrote:
| > That said, it also isn't clear to me how money laundering can
| work if everyone suspects it at your business!
|
| Did you report this suspicion to any authority? Your answer
| should be there.
| notahacker wrote:
| And proving it in court is hard work, and probably low down
| the list of attack surfaces your average organized crime
| syndicate has. Plus criminals are perfectly capable of
| running moderately-successful businesses and just inflating
| takings, and genuine restaurant owners are perfectly capable
| of running places that are only ever full at peak times and
| with bookings (or are on their way to bankruptcy)
| bbarnett wrote:
| Yet this is merely presumed, stated as fact. You may be
| right, yet...
|
| Right or wrong, such reasoning means that you and others
| wave away reporting. And without any indication anything is
| wrong, the police may never know, never investigate.
|
| Thus, the abridgement of process means failure is
| guaranteed.
| erikpukinskis wrote:
| Proving it in court becomes easier if you have more reports
| from patrons.
| notahacker wrote:
| Good luck trying to convict people of serious crime based
| on a handful of people testifying they visited a
| restaurant and it was empty!
| emaginniss wrote:
| What report? I went to this restaurant and it wasn't
| busy? That is not a report, that is just conjecture. If a
| DA went to a judge with that as the evidence for a
| warrant, they'd be insulted and embarrassed by the judge.
| erikpukinskis wrote:
| It's just conjecture but if there's already an ongoing
| investigation it could help.
|
| You can report stuff to the FBI and they will ignore most
| of it.
| nradov wrote:
| The FBI really doesn't want your garbage reports about
| random restaurants unless there's actual evidence of a
| _federal_ crime. They 're overworked as it is.
| chickenimprint wrote:
| I found those stories of "enlightened hospitality" creepy and
| presumptuous. Don't eavesdrop on my conversations and respect my
| choices. Are you suggesting my opinions on expensive wine are
| sour grapes? I didn't want wine or salad. God, I'm happy I don't
| live in a country where waiters are forced to be a hyper-social
| adult circus clown to compete for tips.
| boringg wrote:
| The exact opposite feeling here. The indifference and often not
| particularly great service in europe is dissappointing and can
| easily mar an evening.
|
| Good service in North America heightens the whole dinner
| experience.
|
| Incentives are everything.
| LeonB wrote:
| There's an article [1] from Ricky Gervais where he compares
| British and US culture/humor.
|
| At the end he says:
|
| > 'for the record I'd rather a waiter say, "Have a nice day"
| and not mean it, than ignore me and mean it.'
|
| [1] https://time.com/3720218/difference-between-american-
| british...
| [deleted]
| michaelgrafl wrote:
| If you see restaurants as a place to get food, then you're
| right. If you visit a place to have a remarkable experience,
| you might enjoy this kind of attention.
|
| Not saying either perspective is wrong. Just that there's some
| nuance.
| igorkraw wrote:
| I legitimately wonder how much of the restaurant culture in
| the US comes from the fact you can't just go to a brothel or
| a BDSM dungeon to get your "remarkable experience" outside of
| Nevada
| elvis10ten wrote:
| I live in Berlin and I'm not from the USA. I prefer
| restaurants with this "US hospitality" or something close.
| Sadly, lots of people in this city seem to pride themselves
| in "kind not nice". There is nothing that says both can't
| exist :shrug:
| [deleted]
| erikpukinskis wrote:
| Are being fed a wonderful meal and engaging in sexualized
| power play interchangeable experience for you?
| aaronbrethorst wrote:
| Berlin has both. Must be something else.
| https://guide.michelin.com/us/en/berlin-
| region/berlin/restau...
| jongjong wrote:
| These days it feels like almost every major business is a
| government, bank or drug money laundering operation at its
| core... What they say is their main business is actually just the
| front for the operation. The cash cow is money laundering.
| kkfx wrote:
| Mh... I've read few articles here and there that essentially, in
| the more or less explicit background say "cash are a source of
| evil" while e-cashes might be an answer.
|
| I counter with a simple note: what about a LEGIT company who is
| just a branch of a parent company in another State, something
| let's say like a P.O. box in Delaware, a thing perfectly legal
| there, and the branch company have to pay much service to the
| mother company ending every year in red or nearly red and so
| paying no local taxes but still get allowed to remain in
| business? That's happen ALL by electronic money, officially
| transferred, officially formally billed according to the laws.
|
| On contrary let's say we only tax the net, so we want to document
| any expense, even the smallest one, what do you think in this
| scenario?
| alpineidyll3 wrote:
| Excellent piece. Definitely a better than average think piece
| site too. Cheers to exolymph.
| DubiousPusher wrote:
| > providing excellent service in the F&B business works against
| the structure of the industry.
|
| I tried to look at the preceeding article mentioned to go deeper
| on this but it is paywalled. I can't say for sure but this
| article has wiffs of the quasi-mysticism that surrounds F&B
| worship of successful professional F&B proprietors. And I'm
| getting a touch of the worst brand yet which is mixing F&B
| business metaphorically with startup brain.
|
| So for example, almost all of these articles will talk about how
| some "culture" is "different". They'll enumerate all the quirky
| training processes that "bond" the teams together.
|
| But in the end there are a few realities. Most people that have
| very professional service in F&B pay them more and give them
| better benefits. They can afford this because they work in niches
| of F&B service that allow for higher margins. Unless you can move
| your operations into something higher margin, you can't afford
| these pay and benefits. And if you do, someone else will fill
| your low margin hole and end up asking themselves the same
| questions. Namely, why do my employees hate me? I exploit them.
| Why do I exploit them? The margins demand it.
|
| The other and much more insidious way that F&B luminaries provide
| superior service is by exploiting professionalized workers' egos.
| Essentially, working in a fancy restaurant is very clouty. A lot
| of people end up working in cutting edge or high end F&B while
| still earning very marginally improved wages because they believe
| in the place they work. In my opinion this is not good. This is
| asking people to start making real personal sacrifices for
| something they will never actually own, something that will give
| them nothing the day it slides from under their feet.
|
| The vast majority of F&B is so low margin that I actually think
| the only conceivable way to pay people a livable wage, outside of
| high margin niches, is to be unrpofitble. Essentially, you have
| to distribute the profits to the workers. And the problem here
| becomes that scale is often the only way to secure yourself in
| the industry, yet getting capital invested into your explicitly
| profitless venture is unlikely.
|
| I really wish I could read the other article because maybe I'm
| preaching to the choir but in the end I'd say, be very cautious
| about glorify anyone in the F&B business.
| shadowsun7 wrote:
| Yes, rest assured the previous article talks about exactly
| this. (I mean, the title of this piece should give you a hint:
| "Pay attention to deviations from mainstream incentives"
| because the mainstream incentives in F&B are just so, so bad.)
| Samyak1 wrote:
| Very interesting piece. Looking forward to reading the part two.
| maneesh wrote:
| This is part two of a series. Part 3 appears to be gated as
| members only.
| steve76 wrote:
| maneesh wrote:
| Fascinating article!
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